Public transcript

Joe Rogan Experience #2556 - Siddharth Kara

By: The Joe Rogan Experience
Length: 2 h 22 min
Language: English
Text from: the video's captions
Transcribed: 27 September 2026

Read the full transcript Open on YouTube

Notes in English.

Summary

Siddharth Kara returns to the Joe Rogan Experience nearly four years after Cobalt Red, with an update on Congo mining that he cannot revisit himself due to a bounty on him. He presents findings from his report "Blood Batteries": roughly 300,000 people dig cobalt by hand daily, about a third in conditions of slavery, nearly 10% of them children, with severe water contamination and deforestation across the mining region. The conversation then turns to his new book about the slave ship Zong, the Atlantic slave trade, and the abolition movement it sparked, before closing with wide-ranging discussion of reparations, technology companies' obligations, and speculative hopes for AI. Kara argues throughout that truth, moral leaders, and extended compassion are what drive human progress.

Key points

Kara has not returned to the Congo since Cobalt Red was published because a bounty was reportedly placed on him, but colleagues continue ground research there.
His report estimates at least 300,000 people dig cobalt by hand on any given day; about 37% work in conditions amounting to slavery and nearly 10% are children, roughly 30,000 kids.
Water testing around Kolwezi found heavy metals at 10 to 950 times WHO safety limits, with pH readings as low as the threes and fours in village water sources.
Kara claims people in the Congo say Chinese state-run mining companies have been shipping uranium alongside cobalt and copper to China for years, which he cannot verify but says would explain China's fast-growing nuclear stockpile.
A US mining company, Virtuous Mining, took over copper-cobalt concessions in 2026 as part of a Trump administration minerals deal, and early feedback suggests improved artisanal mining standards.
Kara's new book is about the Zong, a Dutch slave ship whose 1781 throwing of 130-140 Africans overboard triggered an insurance lawsuit and the first movement to abolish slavery.
When Britain abolished slavery in 1833, it paid slave owners 20 million pounds — 40% of the national budget — and British taxpayers repaid that loan until 2015.
Kara says tech and EV companies could improve mining conditions cheaply and must repair environmental damage in the Congo even if cobalt recycling eventually ends demand.
Rogan argues people should keep working phones longer, and floats a speculative hope that a superior AI might one day manage resources equitably and prevent war.
Kara identifies James Ramsay, an abolitionist and man of faith, as the author of the anonymous letter that re-opened the Zong case, a mystery unsolved for 240 years.

Questions it answers

00:00Reunion and Congo Update

What has changed in the Congo since Siddharth Kara's last appearance?

Kara cannot return due to a bounty placed on him, but colleagues' ongoing research shows conditions have degraded further, driven by fever for battery metals and new AI data centers. Roughly 300,000 people dig cobalt by hand daily, over a third in slavery-like conditions, and nearly 10% are children.

A bounty keeps Kara out of the Congo, but ground research continues.
At least 300,000 people mine cobalt by hand daily, ~10% of them children.
AI data centers are the new demand driver for the same Congolese metals.

04:00Environmental Devastation

How bad is the environmental damage from mining in the Congo?

Kara's "Blood Batteries" report used satellite imagery to document 40-60% forest loss in the mining region, and water testing near Kolwezi found heavy metals at 10 to 950 times WHO safety limits. Village water sources tested hyper-acidic, with pH in the threes and fours, while the West avoids similar mining at home.

Mining has destroyed roughly half the region's forest cover.
Heavy metals reached up to 950 times WHO limits in water.
Kara calls the double standard the great hypocrisy of the tech economy.

11:54Artisanal Mining Horror

What does 'artisanal mining' actually look like on the ground?

Despite its pleasant-sounding name, it means families and children digging in toxic grit with bare hands, mothers with babies on their backs, and kids hauling 40-50 kilogram sacks of cobalt. Kara describes an AK-47-wielding militia-run site of 15,000 people where he nearly lost his life, saved only by a governor's stamp on his paperwork.

'Artisanal' mining is raw human labor in toxic conditions.
Militia-run mines feed cobalt directly into the formal industrial supply chain.
Local advice — the governor's stamp — saved Kara's life.

18:12The Zorg Book and Slavery Today

Why did Kara write about a slave ship?

His book on the Zorg covers the most consequential of the 40,000+ slave ship voyages, arguing there are more slaves on earth today than during the Atlantic slave trade — slavery was abolished on paper, but the institution evolved. He says people cannot fix a horror until they learn about it.

The Zorg is the most consequential slave ship in history.
More people are enslaved today than during the Atlantic trade.
Abolition succeeded through awareness, which the Zorg trial created.

28:00Origins of the Slave Trade

How did the Atlantic slave trade begin?

Portuguese navigation breakthroughs (the latine rig) opened Africa, and sugar — discovered during the Crusades — became the driving commodity. After Spain decimated native populations, King Charles in 1518 contracted the Portuguese to supply 4,000 Africans, starting the triangular trade. Africans were marched up to 1,000 miles, held months in dungeons like Cape Coast Castle, then packed into ships with 16 inches of space each.

Sugar, not gold, was the engine of the slave trade.
The trade began in 1518 to supply Spanish sugar plantations.
Captive Africans were given 16 inches of space, 'like books on a shelf.'

1:18:00The Zorg Massacre and Trial

What happened on the Zorg and why does it matter?

Lost and out of water under the incompetent Robert Stubs, the crew threw 130-140 Africans, including a mother and baby, overboard, then claimed insurance. The resulting lawsuit exposed the atrocity publicly, and an anonymous letter — written by James Ramsay, as Kara discovered — asking about murder re-opened the case, sparking the abolition movement.

132-140 Africans were thrown overboard to conserve water.
The insurance claim exposed the massacre to the world.
Kara identified James Ramsay as the anonymous letter writer after 240 years.

1:56:00Reparations and Compensation

Does the history of slavery create a debt today?

Kara explores the reparations debate — Jamaica's 10-billion-pound request, Congolese claims against Belgium — without a firm opinion, but notes Britain paid slave owners 20 million pounds in 1833 (40% of its budget) and taxpayers repaid that loan until 2015, while freed slaves owed five more unpaid years. This history complicates who owes what to whom.

Britain compensated slave owners, not the enslaved.
The compensation loan was repaid by taxpayers until 2015.
Reparations raise hard questions about distribution and corruption.

2:14:00AI, Responsibility, and Hope

Can technology or conscience fix these problems?

Rogan speculates a benevolent, superior AI might equitably manage Earth's resources and stop war, while Kara suggests simulating AI with moral parameters. More concretely, Kara insists companies like Apple could cheaply improve mine conditions and must repair Congo's contamination and build alternate livelihoods even if recycled cobalt — feasible for phones by around 2030 — ends demand.

Kara: tech companies could fix mine conditions with modest effort and money.
Even with full recycling, companies owe repair of the damage done.
Moral leaders and extended compassion remain the engine of progress.

Notes

Congo Mining Update

Siddharth Kara cannot return to the Congo since a bounty was reportedly placed on him after Cobalt Red, but colleagues continue research there.
His report "Blood Batteries" (University of Nottingham) estimates at least 300,000 people dig cobalt by hand daily; about 37% work in conditions of absolute slavery and nearly 10% are children (~30,000 kids).
Satellite imagery shows 40-60% of forest lost in the mining region; water around Kolwezi tested at 10 to 950 times WHO limits for heavy metals including lead, uranium, and chromium.
Village wellwater and rivers came back hyper-acidic, with pH readings in the threes and fours — deadly levels.

Who Controls the Ground

Chinese state-run mining companies dominate and, per unverified local accounts, have shipped uranium to China alongside cobalt for 15 years — a possible explanation for China's fast nuclear stockpile growth.
Virtuous Mining, a US company run by former military men, took over concessions in Lubumbashi and Kolwezi in 2026 under a Trump administration minerals arrangement; early feedback suggests improved artisanal mining standards.
Kara saved his life during a 2016 militia confrontation by showing a governor's stamp on his visa paperwork, advice from local colleagues.

The Zorg and the Slave Trade

Kara's new book covers the Zorg, the most consequential slave ship of the 40,000+ voyages that carried 12.5-13 million Africans.
The triangular trade was driven by sugar ("sweet salt" discovered during the Crusades); Jamaica's sugar exports were worth five times all 13 American colonies' exports combined in the 1770s.
Africans endured inland marches of up to 1,000 miles, months in dungeons like Cape Coast Castle, and the Middle Passage with 16 inches of space per person.
Off course and out of water, the Zorg's crew threw 130-140 Africans, including a mother and baby, overboard, then claimed insurance.

Abolition and Conscience

An anonymous letter asking why no one talked about murder — written, Kara discovered, by abolitionist James Ramsay — prompted a retrial where barristers first argued universal human rights in a Western court.
Twelve Anglicans and Quakers met in a printing shop in 1787 and built the first abolition movement using viral images, testimony, journalism, and boycotts.
Britain paid slave owners 20 million pounds in 1833 (40% of the national budget); taxpayers repaid the loan until 2015. The Gladstone family received one of the largest checks.
Frederick Douglass met Thomas Clarkson, the sole surviving founder, to learn tactics for American abolition.

Modern Parallels and Choices

Kara advises keeping working phones longer rather than upgrading yearly, and insists companies must repair Congo's environmental and human catastrophe even if recycling ends demand — Apple has discussed fully recycled cobalt in the Apple Watch by around 2030.
Both return to the theme that moral progress comes from extending compassion beyond one's immediate circle: "We only make progress when we extend our compassion out."

Text from the video's own captions. Summary and notes written by AI from the transcript, so check anything important against the recording.