Squawk Pod: Palantir CEO Alex Karp: CEOs are Livid - 07/01/26 | Audio Only

Market recap and first-half performance

00:00Bring in show music, please. >> Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, Palunteer CEO Alex Karp, a big interview that starts with a new partnership with chipmaker Nvidia. What aligns me with Nvidia and I think is what the c [music] technical customers want which is control over their compute, their models, their data stack and their alpha >> and spans to everything else he's fired up about in artificial intelligence and national security. >> Are we really going to outsource the battlefield of this country to the consensus view in Silicon Valley? [music] That is effing insane. Then what happens when two daughters of Congress forge a friendship across the aisle? New children's book authors,

00:50Ellie Godheimer of New Jersey. Just our dads [music] have always been friends. Forced Sarwell to go to a bipartisan workout group most mornings when we're in Washington DC. [music] So we've kind of trauma bonded over that a little bit. >> And Laura Mullen, daughter of the Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen. >> It was definitely very different than what you'd say [music] the normal childhood. A couple times I felt like Hannah Montana. Plus a mountain of disclosures about the president's finances. >> Ethics watchd dogss obviously are going to be all over this. >> Should a sitting president be allowed to trade [music] stocks on a regular basis? Should a congressman >> showing more than half a billion dollars

01:25in crypto income and raising some questions. >> We've created a system that at the minimum allows for the perception of effectively bribery. >> It is Wednesday, July 1st, 2026. Squawk Pod begins right now. >> Stand back by in three, two, one. Cue up please. >> Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawkbox right here on CNBC. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Time Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernin and Andrew Ross Sorcin. And here we are, first day of the second half, first day of the third quarter. What a first half it was for the year. At the halfway mark for 2026, the Russell 2000 is the standout performer for that first half. If year- to- date, it is up by nearly 22%. It closed yesterday's

02:13session at a record high once again above 3,000. The Nasdaq is up by 12.8% for the first half of the year. The S&P 500 is up by 9.5% and the Dow is up by nearly 9% closing out its best first half performance since 2021. But if you were looking just at the second quarter, that's where there were some really phenomenal performances. Uh particularly if you were looking at technology stocks, the NASDAQ up by about 21 a.5%, but the NASDAQ 100, the largest technology companies up by 27 a.5% for the quarter. It's unbelievable to kind of watch. We know about the Magnificent 7 and the performance that they've been putting in. But if you haven't been watching the parabolic seven stocks, that was what really took off, not just

02:57throughout the entire quarter, but even yesterday. All of those stocks up by about 6 to 12%. These are the stocks that you're watching. AMD, Dell, Broadcom, Intel. Flip that over. You're also going to be looking at Micron, Marll, SanDisk. Those seven stocks at this point with the gains that they saw yesterday are actually exceeding the MAG7's multiples for the first time ever. AI's winning and and the war and and high oil prices losing. That's the only thing I can say. I don't I don't know how you explain it. How long's the war almost covered the entire quarter? Didn't not quite but it happened right. >> So all this is happening with that as the backdrop and with what did oil prices average? They came down recently,

03:38but they had to average >> above 90. >> I was going to say I was going to say high 80s 90 95. >> So go figure. Is it got to be got to be what happened with Yeah, it's got to be got to be. >> Yeah. Well, and that parabolic seven, I mean, they they have just taken off. It was the Mag Seven that were the first gainers for what was happening with AI. Now, this is the second iteration of that. And um it's been something. >> We got a guy coming on in a second who is calling him the lag seven >> instead of the mag seven. >> We'll see what he means. Parabolic. >> See what he means by that. They haven't done quite as well, but we'll see what he means. >> Look at look at those gains. Micron up 202%, SanDisk up 24.

Anthropic export controls and Nike earnings

04:17>> Not lagging yet. Maybe in in recent uh >> just in the last quarter perhaps. Um if you look at Treasury yields this morning, because remember we do get that big jobs report tomorrow, a day early because of the July 4th holiday on Friday. You'll see right now the 10-year is yielding 446. The 2-year is at 417. Anthropic now saying the US Commerce Department has lifted export controls on its Clawude Fable 5 and Mythos 5 models. uh it had disabled access to those models in mid June to comply with the government's national security restrictions. Anthropic said that Fibble 5 will be available to global users on the cloud platform beginning today and it says it has restored access to Mythos 5 for some US organizations to continue

04:59to work with the US government to expand access for more domestic and international partners and that's a big move in terms of uh the next stage of all this. Having said that, we talked on Monday just about how there was this new Chinese model which apparently is as good if not better uh than the fable and mythos model. And so there's >> at some >> we've heard that we've heard that before you know at certain things. Yeah. Yeah. I read it and it said it it very specific, right? Do you know you know that all this stuff uh much better than I do. But >> I've been, by the way, trying to see even as I'm looking I was trying to see whether I could get back on Fable right now, but I can't yet. Says it's still

05:36disabled on me. I saw it ask me. It asked me whether I wanted it the other day. My friend called, but uh then it said it wasn't available. >> It's not I mean I mine still says currently unavailable, >> but I had a choice of like three other things that I didn't know if I wanted any of those. I >> the other models. >> Yeah, you weren't reachable. No, I think they want money for some of them, don't they? >> Oh, I'm pay I'm a paying customer. So, yes, >> I know you are. I know you are. You're going to end up having to need one of those programs that looks at everything that you've paid for. You know what I mean? Saw something the other day. I wanted to read an article and it says you can get >> um 14 days free. And I was like, "Okay,

06:14so I can see the article, but then it said >> it automatically charges. You have to put your credit in ahead of your credit card ahead of time." The only thing that ever saves me is that my credit card every once in a while either I lose it or it gets stolen and then I cancel it and then all of the subscriptions have to track me down to say, "Give me the new credit card." And I think to do cancel it. >> All right. Separately, Anthropic is starting an internal drug discovery program as part of an effort to develop AI tools for drug makers. The company's head of life sciences said yesterday that the company will focus on discovering treatments for what they call neglected diseases that would be

06:46considered attractive targets for traditional pharma companies. A spokesperson told CNBC that the effort was just beginning, that they would share more as their work progresses. Shares of Nike uh falling to levels that uh we haven't really seen much recently from this company. It was a high flyer company reporting adjusted earnings of 20 cents uh a share beating estimates 39 of 13 cents. That adjusted number does uh not include 52 cents a share of tariff related uh gains, refund related gains. Analysts didn't include that in their estimates. The company said it collected more than $300 million in tariff refunds, revenue of about 11 billion, topped estimates of 10.9 billion, and North American sales of

07:35$4.8 billion. That was uh apparently below expectations. Um, China sales dropped 12% but still topped analyst estimates as for guidance. Nike expects earnings for to be flattish for the next two quarters. I'm doing all this trying to see if this is uh Yeah, it's a new low. Uh and we have to go all the way back to God, >> it's down sharply this >> probably like an 8 year low last year, >> isn't it? >> Yeah, it's down sharply just this last year too if you're watching. >> But look at the high. >> I don't know what the high looks like it got us somewhere around 150 >> 50 or 60. >> Yeah. In the market cap now for the >> Dow Dow component. >> I was thinking about that this morning. um it's going to be like under like

08:19around 45 billion and at one point it had to be well over 100. >> Three years down 64%. I mean they they've just said that their customers around the globe are >> they lo when they when you lose Sorcin you lose Have you bought any Nike sneakers? When's the last time you bought some Nike sneakers? >> I haven't bought any Nike sneakers in a while. >> I'm rooting for them. I I mean I love Nike more than anything. And that ad, I don't know if you remember that ad um right after the Knicks won [snorts] was one of the great sports ads >> in someone who doesn't watch, you see it online. You don't see it on TV cuz you've been see any of these ads cuz you saw some other ad you really like too for uh >> Oh, for Poly Market.

08:56>> Yeah. Where are you seeing these online? >> Well, that one I saw. No, the that one I saw. >> You're not watching TV. >> It was I do watch I was watching the the the game at the time. >> How many times can you watch Billions? I I don't understand it. Don't you know every line that's that's coming? I mean, and there's no commercial. >> I'm watching other things. >> Really? >> Yes. I'm watching. >> But anyway, let's root for Nike because they need to get back. What do we have to >> You don't have to root for Nike. >> And you know, I'm not I'm rooing against I don't have to like so many things. I've been rooting against I have not bought a Nike product in years. I won't. Still mad about those the cops that were

09:33like pigs on those socks. I'm still mad about that. Still mad about that. I'm sorry. Mad about kneeling. Mad about all that. >> Um, young man. [laughter] >> I'm I don't like that cloud. I'm shaking. >> Okay. Well, tell me what you [laughter] >> tell me what you think about this next story because there are people >> I need to know what you think. >> There are people who are who are making that that who are doing that about where I'm going. >> You have to tell me what how to think because I don't know. I I >> that's what I I've thought about this and my answer is >> there's a lot of Okay, I will but there's a lot of questions. I don't have the answers. You need to tell me how to think about this.

Trump financial disclosure debate

10:10>> Okay, tell the story first. >> So, no, here's the story. The Office of the Government Ethics released President Trump's annual financial disclosure report yesterday. It revealed that the president pulled in at least $2 billion in 2025. of his crypto-related income in 2025 included about $515 million from the sale of tokens uh from the World Liberty from World Liberty Financial and another 65 million from sales of equity in World Liberty's holding company. He also received $635 million in royalties from Celebration Coins. It wasn't immediately clear what those coins are, though Bloomberg is reporting that the royalties are related to Mr. Trump's memecoin business. Now, he earned more than $86 million in legal settlements as

10:56well. Those included the $24.5 million from Meta, $16 million a piece from Paramount and Disney. And President Trump's biggest stock holdings include Amazon, Meta, Nvidia, and Tesla. >> Right. Okay. >> So, lots of questions. Tell tell me what the answers are to the questions because we don't have answers to the questions, right? I I will tell you I'll tell you one other thing. He made uh 4.7 million from I almost contributed to that uh Trump watches. Okay. Trump branded watches. I was going to buy you one. I can't remember which one. Mag me, you know, as a so this is I say this a lot and and as his other you know people say this is how Trump rolls and it is how President Trump roll. He's selling watches. He's

11:48selling Trump brand watches while he's president. >> I think that's different than some of the >> well Bitcoin and other issues that his administration is having an impact. >> You have to and ethics watchd dogs obviously are going to be all over this. Democrats if if Democrats retake the House going to be all over looking at this. The the people in charge of some watchdog groups are saying there needs to be reform across the board in in the president be allowed to trade uh stocks on a regular basis. That's the discretionary. His is supposed that they emphasize that that's discretionary. >> The journal points out he he has a vast and sunundry business that Donald Trump does. There's there's no doubt about his

12:34sons are running it. They're not stupid, I don't think. and to go from making investments to being able to prove that there was quid proquo or influence pedalling or whether people just think if I do this I'm going to be in >> but is barisma the same thing with Biden >> that's what I mean and okay how about this question if he was not president would his businesses have gone up more or less than than what happening. >> Well, you tell me. Do you >> I don't know. These are my questions. That's why I'm asking you for the answers. >> So, let's start on the world uh liberty business. >> Yeah, because that was 15 billion, it's now 400 million or something or one of them. >> Okay. So, that business wouldn't I don't

13:23think first of all crypto regulations would have been different probably under a different president. The So, the opportunity for all those crypto would be different. Does that mean that they should not have tried to make the the the >> No, it's just can you benefit? >> The spokesperson says that the president has made crypto or made the United States the leading >> country. I understand that. I'm I'm just all I'm look the thing that I care about as an American is I would love for for all of this to just be no money involved with anything so you are not raising these questions because invariably what happens is you sit here and you say to yourself, are certain people making decisions for a reason? And by the way,

14:01it may not be that the president is making uh specific decisions to enrich himself, but it may be that there are other people who think that they can influence him. Maybe they're influencing him and maybe they're not. But either way, you then it it we sit here and we have to say to ourselves, what's going on? The UAE made a massive investment in world liberty. Would would would the UA you just said, what would have happened if he wasn't the president? Would the UAE have made an a massive investment uh in Liberty Financial? >> You have question. That's what I said. Questions, but no. You know what is good that there is all this disclosure? >> Sure. >> Amazing. >> Disclosure is good. I I think it it it

14:42kind of raises the question though. I think of it more of like when you were allowing the railroad to expand, if you had known about that, if you were going to make some of those changes in advance and you could buy the land along the way, right, >> before anybody else knew about those things. I I don't know. I I don't know exactly how this worked out, but those those are the types of questions if you have regulatory control and you also have the [clears throat] first mover advantage of knowing. >> Look, I think that I've I've I've spoken about very on the show with you about Nancy Pelosi and the trades and how I would tell you that that is I think I've used the word shameful. So, if you if I

15:15can say that about trading, >> what would you say about this? I don't I I'm just I'm I'm asking. That's why I told you that you need to tell me how to think about it because I I don't I have questions but I don't have answers. Here's >> I think the answer ultimately is that we have to find a way to make it such that our politics are somewhat immune from money and we've created a system that at the minimum allows for the perception of effectively bribery. That's >> what's what what what is al it's unprecedented. There's no doubt. What's also unprecedented, you know, I had a guy take office that was worth billions and billions of dollars that has a bit that had a business a successful business with golf courses and all this

16:00crap all around the world. And that's not going to go away either. So I I think the question of whether I mean I think definitely after his first term that that hurt his businesses it hurt his brand it hurt and then all the litigation and everything that came from and the other thing Andrew January >> if there okay there's smoke all right and there's whether there's fire I would think that there would be a zealous pursuit of any of the things that you're talking about especially if if Democrat >> well we also have an amalments clause I mean there are laws and rules rules that are supposed to prevent these. >> It's impossible to make these sticks. Someone's going to do it with this guy because he's got so many enemies.

16:40>> I I I wonder whether the rules have to be not just enforced, but are going to ultimately have to be changed, >> right? >> And the question is, is there going to be an appetite for that? >> That's what that's what the ethics guy said that we got to we got to look at the way everything is right now and we got to like make sure that all these loop. >> Well, look, we've had basic conversations. is it goes back to the the the trading story and we've not, you know, here we are sitting around saying that we're not investing in, you know, doing what we do or the folks at the SEC uh don't don't uh invest in stocks. >> I bought like a couple of Bitcoin seven years ago and you're still telling me that that my opinion is based on me

17:19buying that and it isn't. I mean, >> look, the the the point is >> I s actually I didn't say that. I sold 90% of it below where it is now. >> Okay. The point is that most people at companies around the country have very significant restrictions on what they're able to do. If you are the CEO of Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan, you're limited about what you're able to do. If you we have lots of restrictions in most of corporate America, frankly, and lots of parts of the regulatory world as well. And yet, for whatever reason, you we're saying in the White House is different. >> Are you up to speed on the Ro Kana stuff? I've been seeing this stuff on on Twitter. I mean, he's How much is he worth? >> He's worth an extraordinary amount of

17:58money. I mean, it's through his his wife's family, but >> a lot of trading, too. >> But there's a lot of trading. And the question is, how how how would you like to limit that? I And by the way, I think we should try to try to limit those things or at least create systems that make you feel better about how how those things work. I don't, by the way, we should have people who have wealth uh in in Washington. >> Exactly. Because you don't want people who are completely unsophisticated. >> I'm not suggesting that we don't want that. I'm just suggesting that there are rules. By the way, when Jake Clayton went to the SEC, you know, his uh his his wife had worked at Goldman Sachs, stopped working at Goldman Sachs. I

Palantir-Nvidia partnership

18:35mean, I'm just saying >> cheese will be next. >> Coming up on Squawk Pod, Palunteer is teaming up with Nvidia and Palunteer CEO Alex Karp is fired up about the way technology works right here at home. >> You sound pretty angry. [music] No, the this is the voice of American business [music] that is being channeled through me. And I'm telling you, it is it is absolutely a problem for this country. >> It's the type of conversation you'll only hear on Squawkbox and the kind of [music] passion you'll only hear from Alex Karp. >> And I'll tell you, uh, we're off camera now. >> We're still going. >> Stay with us through this quick break.

19:18This is Squawk Pod from CNBC. Here's Andrew Ross Sorcin. >> Palanteer expanding its partnership with Nvidia to build custom AI systems for the US government. That stock uh shooting up. It's up again this morning, up almost 6% uh this week. And joining us right now exclusively at the table, Alex Car, Palanteer's co-founder and CEO and CNBC's Simodi, who covers Palunteer uh joins us. and uh tell us about tell us about the deal with inv there's so many things I think we all want to talk about but but let's get to the Nvidia deal first >> because because I have so much respect for Nvidia and Jensen Wong I'm going to try to keep this more adult than I usually do but the truth is if you want to know how this came together from my

20:00perspective it was uh it there's there a lot of technical issues who controls the models who controls the weights who controls the value of your business um but um you know we're on we're we're sitting on critical infrastructure across America, Ukraine, Israel. Everyone who uses LLMs on the battlefield runs on top of our ontology. Um, and our clients are just to say they're unhappy with the Frontier Labs is to say I'm welcome at the Berkeley faculty. It's like there's just a level of discomfort and loss of trust that also made it it really really >> Okay, unpack that. What do you mean by that? Well, you have Okay. So, when you're on when you're using large language models, they are it's like a at

20:44this point everyone technical realizes they're like a critical resource to make them valuable in an enterprise like battlefield context or regulated context or manufacturing. You have to have what's called an application layer. We we have this thing called ontology that now everyone's copying. But de facto it takes a large language model. It makes it safe and useful and precise. So safe because it doesn't touch your unluring data. Safe because it prevents the large language model from caching your data and replicating your business. Uh uh safe because it doesn't transfer your IP of how to fight secret data, top secret data or in in a clinical context. So the the general way these things were sold

Karp on frontier labs and enterprise anger

21:23and again these people are I Sam and and and Daario you there's nothing more fun than debating Daario in private. So this is I'm not throwing shade at them, but something has gone completely wrong. And the basic view among enterprises in this country is I'm going to chill lax uh and waste my time with tokens. I'm going to get no value and they're going to get my IP. >> That sounds like shade though. And not just shade. It sounds like if you're saying these >> No, no, no, no, this is reporting. >> Okay. And I this is reporting that I've I've literally against my own interest called these like I'm profiting from this right. So the reality is you may not like us at my former school Hford or Berkeley but enterprises in this country

22:07trust and love us especially ones that are involved in critical infrastructure both public and private. Okay. So I want for those countries we're coming up to July 4th. I want those c I want for us and our our our our our our friends across the globe to have the very best tech resources. In fact, the whole secret of challenge here is the forward deployed model, the products that have been five years ahead. You know, you've been with me for a long time. Everyone everyone everyone said FDEs were services. They said we don't even know what an ontology is. That's the only thing people talk about now. It the secret was we delivered the best things for the war fighters. Those war fighters have serious trust issues. But it's not

22:48just the word visav frontier labs. Then you have my enterprises in the private sector who have the same issues. They're like, why would they get access to my data if they're going to build my alpha? Why wouldn't I control the weights? Why would And that's where you get this partnership. What what aligns me with Nvidia and I think is what the c technical customers want which is control over their compute their models their data stack and their alpha. They want to know they own the means of production. It's not being transferred to someone else. They're not interested in some fake deploy code that somehow is deploying tokens that transfers the alpha to a third party and the jig is up. So we have to figure out

23:31a way both pro both our our products are agnostic. We we we now sell a product to customers that allows you to switch from model to model because and we're completely agnostic but we need to rebuild trust and that trust is going to happen where everyone gets to ask ask and answer basic questions. Who owns the data? Where is it cached? Are the prompts secure? Is this being transferred to you? Are you being comp? Okay, if it was so valuable, let's say I can make you a billion dollars tomorrow, wouldn't I say, I'll make you a billion dollars and I want 30%. Why are they charging for tokens if it's so valuable? >> So then, Alex, if the key from what I'm hearing you say is a secure Americanborn open-source model, how quickly can your

24:14model compete with the frontier AI and aentic AI >> test? Okay. what what I am claiming obviously slightly true but slightly self-centered is it's the model plus an application layer plus compute it is really all three so in our jargon it's the value the reason okay just look at our financials the reason why everyone is chillaxing with bad financials and growth with losing money is the client refuses to pay the true cost the two places that actually make money like profit free cash flow are our application layer called ontology and compute. Okay, what I am not just claiming we can take an open model and in the classified or non-classified context get it to the point of a frontier model but a you control the

25:05weights. So what is the true cost? Not just what you're paying. The true cost is not just is what you make minus what you lose. Meaning the value of your business. But we can get the the frontier application to be exactly the same as a frontier model without the risk of transferring the alpha of your business to another. By the way, you could do this with a frontier closed model too. But then the clients have to be able to ask and answer very basic questions. Are you keeping the data? Are you going to enter our business? What do you are in the classified context when the do department of war goes to you and says I need this application do they get to control the weights to do it or do you get to control the weights? Are we

25:45really going to outsource the battlefield of this country to the consensus view in Silicon Valley? That is effing insane. And by the way, every single enterprise in this country in private, a lot of them don't want to speak in public because it get out it gets outsourced to the neurode divergent crazy person that apparently is on drugs. The one thing I don't do uh it it okay so that's my role. But I'm telling you in this country at every single enterprise I deal with they these people are livid. They're like I am paying for tokens that create no value. These people are stealing the weights and alpha of my business and they're creating a wealth tax that does not help the poor. It just punishes starts with

Palantir business, China and Israel

26:26the billionaires. Every single person at this table is going to be paying a wealth tax only to punish us. And the reason for it is because these models have been completely over irresponsibly overs. And the sale is it's dangerous for everyone, which is why I can give it to all your adversaries, but I can't give it to the Department of War or I can't safely give it to an enterprise in this country without being certain that the alpha of that business could transfer to this model tomorrow. I.e. I have no business, no job. >> You sound pretty angry. No, the this is the voice of American business that is being channeled through me. And I'm telling you, it is it is absolutely a problem for this country because we are

27:06on the cutting edge of every single AI technology. But if you're going to triply oversell something and the and by the way, the enterprises are just tired of it. >> But by the way, just a minute. I want you everybody watching this to test what I'm saying, especially investors who think somehow this is working. Pick up the phone and call a CEO in private, not in public. Every single person here can do this. Call two or three and say, "Mad Man Karp is on TV saying we're livid." I'm not going to quote you. You know, I won't quote you. You have a history. And see, they're twice as liid as me. Like, >> so if you're right though, does that mean that we are living in some kind of terrible AI bubble and that we're going

27:48to in in a quarter or two or three quarters from now, we're going to hear that big enterprises are canceling their subscriptions to these products or that the buildout is going to slow because >> this is this is the tragedy of it. The reality of compute plus ontology plus model changed the is changing the course of history. it. Ask the Ukrainians, ask the Israelis, ask our Department of War, ask the enterprise that are working. We do not have to oversell what we have. We have and it's all being built in this country basically except for the open models, which is a real thing coming from China, except for Nvidia open models, which are world class basically. Um, that it's all being built here. We

28:31do not have to overhype. We do not have to overhype it to the point where we're going to have wealth tax punishing, >> right? If if they're charging the enterprise three times as much as they should be >> and then and then they have to pull back on that that changes the math of all of this. >> Who's the they >> like >> they are the the large language models which by the way impacts your partner Nvidia because they >> sorry I'm talking about the they the enterprises that power this country as the most important thing. You're talking about the they as Frontier Labs and Silicon Valley. That's great. I'm focused on the enterprises of this country. hyperscalers following this I well you know I it it it depends what

29:07they're selling that's very very downstream from us we're completely agnostic we prefer a world where there are more hyperscalers where there's all sorts of new hyperscalers Elon Nvidia we like that world why do we like the world the same reason when you go online and there's you know there's 50 times kinds of coach you get to pick the one you like but what is happening among the most technical players is they're saying I want something I own this is my business. I want to own the GPUs. I want to own my data. I want to own the model. I want to control the alpha. >> So, is that creating more more opportunity for Palunteer? Are you already seeing the government cancel contracts with Anthropic and Open AI and

29:45saying we want to work? >> I'm not here. I'm literally not here to talk about what's going to happen to a very important business in the country except for obviously to some extent mine. In my business, we have much more demand than we can supply. That's like and and by the way, it may be somewhat maybe I may be the crazy person that still only cares about free cash flow, but we have more business than we can apply and we have look if you just look at our financials you can see like a uh two years out you can see 15 18 billion in free cash flow. So, are you frustrated by the stock's performance over the last >> You know what? I've been at this for 20 years. We've been at this talking this when we first started talking, people

30:28are like, "Is this a services company? Is it worthless?" >> Yeah. The the the markets are short-term, very fickle, and also quite frankly where I would throw some shade, what investors actually understand tech. >> They think because they're very high IQ and they understand certain things, they understand what they're using. Basically the fault of investors is typically I use it therefore it's valuable. Yeah. What an enterprise uses that's doing complicated manufacturing or pharmacological research or putting a bomb on or bringing special forces people home safely very different than what you're using. >> Do you think if you if you're a pharmaceutical company or you're the government should you not be therefore

31:06using anthropic or an open AI without your layer on top? I mean is that is would you say that's dangerous for them? Yeah, you you look first of all honestly the one thing that I am slightly frustrated about these these when when when open AI or anthropic especially are talking about critical infrastructure it only is being used in our product my product and there's a reason for that these things are very very valuable what what what they have done it building models is world historic and just so you see I'm not throwing shade Dario is a literally historic figure and He he came from behind and he's now number one. Almost no one in the I I've been in business whatever you want to call I do for a long time. Never seen anything

31:51like this. Okay. So the reality is critical infrastructure does not run these models without an application layer. In almost all cases and maybe it won't be all cases someday that application layers are ontology. That's a fact. And there's a reason for it. It's not that as you know some people love me some people hate me. They're not buying they're not buying it because of that. they're buying because these things have to be made safe. And the I I'm going to trust you. You should trust me because I've never lied BS thing that just doesn't cut it at this level. And and enterprises are run by the shrewdest American enterprises are run by the shrewdest, most widely intelligent people on the planet. If you think

32:30they're going for that, you can go try to sell me like my my parents still want me to get a job as a faculty member at Berkeley. Go try to get me a job at Berkeley. I'm very qualified. It's not happening. >> Do you agree with the notion of the most robust powerful AI models should be withheld from the public due to cyber security risks? Look, philanthropic open you really have to make the one of one of the things we're really trying to get the west to do is move away from like not liken. These are very technical. What does the model do? Who is restricted to do? I would say it is a loser to restrict something from the government because you don't agree with how the government fights war and then

33:07open it up to the world including our adversaries. Go sell that to the American people where they already don't like you. >> You have a lot of data that you look at. Do you think China is getting better at AI? How is the gap? >> There are two there are two relevant tech centers on two and a half. America, China, Israel. Those are the tech centers of the world. And we like I spent half my life in Europe. I want Europe to be relevant. the re and and Sweden has a real tech scene. There's you have to be can't just like you know but the relevant tech centers uh we are we have a peer-to-peer adversary in China. China has lots of advantages including quite frankly we have to find ways to make these models raise the

33:47standard of living for every America and we need a sense Americans need to have a sense it's not just the people at this table people watching it getting rich and there are real issues there and we have and then we have left and right far left far right gone completely nuts you would think that the greatest problem in the world if you were on the far left is somehow it's like if things work it's evil and bad By the way, I've been wholesale kicked out of my own party because I warned that this was going to happen on the left and it is happening. Then you have on the far right like it's like on both sides you think the biggest problem of our society are like warlocks roaming the street building technology.

34:25They of course they can't understand it. Like they attack Palentia for the craziest. China doesn't have that problem. But it also doesn't have the creativity, ingenuity and and deep tech uh uh creativity we have. But the reality is it's not a foregone conclusion that we win that we have we have the biggest problem in this country on these debates is we debate these things as if we don't have adversaries. It's not actually true. It's binary. They will win or we will win. >> Let me ask you uh I just want to pivot to a slightly different conversation but related. You have been a uh proponent and great supporter of Israel over the years. great support of Israel and right now we have a ceasefire uh in in the

35:07Middle East which we hope holds. Having said that, there is a bit of space between where the US is now and where Netanyahu is on what is happening here and whether they ultimately be protected. And I'm curious given that and given also your relationship with the US government and the work you do there, how you think about that disconnect. the the the the the is like so many things. I am the most publicly supportive CEO of Israel and that's true. Uh I think Israel is a is is on the side of good now in private because I have a I'm known there to be fair. I'm probably also the most effective critic of like hey I didn't agree with this without going and I would be very happy to be more in public about that except

35:53for I think not all. There are many legitimate criticisms of Israel and every other country. Although I would say, do you want a a country that can sometimes be difficult as your partner or do you want a country or do you want partners that have no tech seen as a partner? And so like it's like in this world having a a fully adult independent aligned country that doesn't always agree with us is much better than what we somehow have in Europe. Like that's we do not want that. Yes. Okay. So um look, America and Israel will always have will never be fully aligned and that's totally okay. My position is they are a very important partner and we are proud to support them and in private you can bet your last dollar I call and

36:36complain about a lot of things. >> So what do you think of thisou or whatever deal you think is uh is on offer and and whatever the deal that is do you think that we are now in a better place than we were before? You mean in Iran? >> In Iran and and and visav also what you think it means for Israel. >> Well, look is I I don't Israel I'm going to leave the I'm going to leave the Israeli thing for my talking to them in private because I just don't think at this point it's very hard in public to talk about them because you just have people look they're legitimate criticisms of Israel. Half the people criticizing Israel just don't believe it should exist and that's just a fact. And so like I'm not gonna like totally play

37:14into their hands by saying things I say in private. In America, America has to rep his own interests. Do I think Iran's been degraded? Yes. Are are there things that I don't think are in the public space that would be comforting to people if they are? Yes. And I'll leave it at that. >> Wow. Pretty great. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Have to get up from the seat. Yeah. >> You know, I I I just like I feel like I'm going to be kicked out of the room. No, >> never wide ranging conversation. We really appreciate your time. >> No, not like your party. We want you to We want you to stay. Can you come back tomorrow? >> Yeah. No, I'll come back. I I really do appreciate you guys. >> Talk to it.

37:50>> Yeah. You know, the thing I actually like about you guys the most and I watch you is just that you actually, and it's very hard to pull this off, you actually have divergent opinions and somehow you guys stay together. >> This is true. >> We're still on camera. >> Oh, yeah. Well, great. That's true. you actually like it's it's honestly it's so boring the other stuff like and and again I get kicked out of these rooms I even if even if I agreed with you I would try to disagree with you it's more fun >> there's sea thank you for bringing Alex here this morning thank you for your perspective on this Alex thank you we appreciate it very very much thanks >> people live in echo chambers we've been

38:29so offended both >> what do you like >> it's so crazy and I'll tell you uh we're off camera now. >> No, we're still going. >> Let me get off camera. >> Coming up, >> you're like a mini problem solvers uh caucus. >> Close friends and daughters of frequent squat guests, Congressman Josh Godheimer and DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen have written a children's book about bipartisanship. They'll join us next.

Daughters of Congress members on bipartisanship book

39:00You're listening to Squawk Pod >> and Becky Q. >> Welcome back everybody. Our next guests are close friends. Their parents come from different sides of the aisle. Their bond has actually inspired them to write a new children's book on bipartisanship in Washington DC. Joining us right now is Larara Mullen and Ellie Gottheimr. They are the co-authors of Schmo and Azie go to Washington. Larara's father is former Republican Senator of Oklahoma and now DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen. Ellie's father is Congressman Josh Godheimer, a Democrat from New Jersey. And obviously both of those gentlemen are are frequent guests right here on Squawkbox. Uh Larry and Ella, I I want to thank you both for being here today

39:43and for for coming on to talk about this. This is no joke. You guys are actually close friends. >> Yes, very close. We work out together. Yes, [laughter] that is. >> And how long have you two known each other? >> We kind of grew up together. Just our dads have always been friends. And like Larara was saying, we are forced against our well to go to a bipartisan workout group most mornings when we're in Washington DC. So we've kind of trauma bonded over that a little bit. >> Yeah. So these forced workouts that t took along the way. You all have this new book. It's called Shoo and Aussie go to Washington. And this is based on your two dogs. Yes. >> Going to Washington and seeing what it's like in Washington DC. What was it like

40:21kind of growing up in Washington DC and going there? >> It was definitely very different than when you'd say the normal childhood. couple times I felt like Hannah Montana just [laughter] like living like I'd go from school and then right after school we'd fly up to Washington. I'd be in all these amazing meetings and stuff like that. And so it definitely I got a lot of cool experiences >> and and and you too um again your dad's come from different sides of the aisle but they have formed a pretty close partnership and bond too. What did that kind of teach you as you were growing up Ellie? Yeah, I mean I think it's so amazing that our dads are able to work together and it really inspired Lar and

40:56us Lar and I to write this book and you know the idea that even though they're from two completely different sides of the aisle, they're able to be such close friends and work together and they even can find common ground to agree on and that's kind of what inspired us to be able to write this book and hopefully educate and have children learn that, you know, even if they're different from one another, they're still able to work together. before sec secretary Mullen before your dad was in before he was secretary of senate but before that he was in the house a lot for for years I how many terms yeah so that's when >> yes that's when they first started working together >> I got it so the Oklahoma New Jersey

41:32thing that didn't >> I got some questions about just growing up with the spotlight on your parents and then maybe a little on you in a way and like how did that feel all of the time and whether you ever had friends at school who said, "I can't believe your dad's doing this or they're doing that or what's happening." And I did you guys did you feel that or was it or are you always sort of kept separate from that? >> I really do a good job of keeping politics out of my relationships. And so with my friends, I never talk politics. I never talk like they obviously know who my dad is and I'm sure some of them don't completely like agree with everything. And so I really try my hardest to keep politics out of pretty

42:12much everything just to keep my relationships Maybe that's what we all have to do. >> That's Yeah, exactly. And that's why it's been so nice getting to know Lara because, you know, we both kind of have had very similar experiences growing up and we're even though, you know, our dads are so different from each other, we're able to talk together. But yeah, it's definitely been a crazy experience growing up, but one that I'm so grateful for. I've had friends say, you know, my parents didn't vote for your dad. And I'll just be like, okay, that's fine. We can just talk about something else. So yeah, that's something Lar like a mini problem solvers uh caucus. Was uh was your dad in problem solvers? That was

42:48was that around when he was in the house? >> Oh yeah. >> And he was with Josh along with that group. Okay. >> Do you guys ever get frustrated because sometimes it feels like in Washington not a lot gets done on a bipartisan basis. What What do you all see? What do you think about that? I see a lot of I see getting a really bad rep in Washington and I just see a bunch of like oh they're different you can't be friends basically and that's really about >> yeah I think that Lar and I both kind of saw you know we see the actual work that gets done behind the scenes but a lot of kids our age don't actually see that. So, I think what we were trying to do with this book is that before kids really get to social media and before

43:28they see all this fighting um that's orchestrated on social media, we wanted to be able to tell them, you know, things actually do happen. People actually work together who are different from each other and it's not impossible and it's something that should happen. And, you know, that's what's amazing about us being >> we wanted to show them the side that we see considering we we grew up there pretty much. >> And the proceeds go to help homeless families. >> Project Night. Yes. >> Gives boxes, night boxes to kids under the age of 12 that are homeless. It gives us a cured blanket, a stuffed animal, and a book, a children's book. And so, >> we thought it was really important to be able to help kids that um weren't as

44:03fortunate as we were growing up. And also hopefully provide some media and like literacy education as well. >> All right. Well, Ellie and Lara, I would just want to say we welcome you here. We appreciate what you all are doing and the message that you're getting out and thank you for taking the time to be with us. >> Thank you so much. And that is Squawk Pod for today. Thank you for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorcin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern or get the best of our TV show in an easy to listen to podcast when you follow Squawk Pod. Hit that follow button wherever you're listening now and [music] check us out anytime you want. We'll meet you right back here

44:44tomorrow. >> Now we are clear. Thanks, guys. Thank you guys so much.