Satya Nadella and Jensen Huang discuss Hybrid Intelligence and the future of PC

Nvidia's origins with Windows

00:00Huge congratulations to Pawan, Jacob, the teams at Microsoft and Nvidia. Um, I will say they were kind enough to send me a Surface Laptop Ultra for the last few days. It is amazing that I won the workstation for Christmas. Now, now there's a bunch of stuff about the exciting future to get into. But before we do that, I was looking both of you up last night on YouTube and it's quite rare to see both of these gentlemen on stage together. And I was thinking about how, you know, you both had a history. These two great companies had a history going back decades. You both individually had a history of working with each other going back decades. Ties to me. My first job was at Microsoft. My first paycheck a GeForce FX to play

00:43Halfife 2. So, so maybe to start us off in Jensen, what is your favorite memory uh or fun memory of working with Satia and Microsoft? Well, uh, Nvidia was founded because of Windows. It was 1992, late '92, uh, Windows 3.1. And we were just started to see the the vision of what a what a personal computer really can be. And at the time, frankly, we had never I'd never even seen a PC before. I largely worked on workstations. We had, you know, we had uh file servers and supercomputers that we used to design chips with. and and the founders and I, you know, talked about this future where maybe uh a personal computer with 3D graphics would enable it to do things like games and and be a workstation and

DirectX, programmable shaders and CUDA

01:31design things. And so we we imagine about this world. If not for Windows, uh Nvidia wouldn't have been founded. And then and of course and of course we we started in 1993. Um uh Windows 95 really made reinvented Windows 95. >> Wow. >> Am I on >> Windows Windows 95 uh made possible the GPU to be connected to uh uh a personal computer. And what revolutionized the GPU was DirectX. Direct 3D uh was the API that really uh enabled us to re uh reveal the capabilities of GPUs into applications. But then DX8 came along and we co-invented with Microsoft the world's first G programmable GPU which is programmable shaders which a few steps later evolved into uh CUDA as we know it. And so if you look at the entire

02:36journey of our company, Windows was at the core of it. And if not for Windows, there would be no GeForce. If no GeForce, CUDA wouldn't have come to the world. Uh without CUDA, Alex Kushki and Ilia Suskver, um Yan Lun, you know, uh Andrew Angone of them would have uh found a computer uh to do deep learning. >> And here we are. >> Is now going to do a little transfer of market cap back to me. >> [laughter] >> I do that every day. I do that every day. >> But it's extraordinary that journey uh that Jensen recounted. I mean it's kind of the the it's the history of computing in some sense. Um, and the thing, one of the things, uh, that Jensen sort of sparked for me was he has been perhaps the most consistent

Azure HPC and the OpenAI supercomputer

03:32with the vision of what accelerated computing can be. And this going back to the trajectory, you've been the one person in our industry who has had this one idea whose sort of trajectory has been the most expansive quite frankly more so than even any single PC form factor or chip architecture. Because I look back, one of my first memories was we were talking about essentially saying in the cloud, how big can be accelerated computing or high performance computing, right? The first deal I remember was in Azure, how do we make HPC a bigger thing? Um and by the way if we >> Satio was the first user of Infiniban inside a cloud which brought right the first supercomputer to open AI which boom >> that's right if we had not done that

04:27like the fascinating you know like life is full of accidents but if we had not done that for HPC we wouldn't have had the supercomputer to give to open AI to go train a GPT model and rest would have been history I mean it was kind of one of those happen stance that we had done the HPC see stuff when we were building an Infinibanbased supercomputer and and comes Sam and says hey do you have computing and we said yeah maybe and and so it's sort of like but the thing that I really give Jensen all the credit quite frankly is that consistency of vision of what this can be not today not tomorrow but as a secular trend and that's kind of what you know brings us even to this moment >> and then it led to a conversation. It

The four-year conversation about the perfect PC

05:17led to a conversation I remember quite well where Satia and I were talking about so so what does this mean to the PC? How do we make uh the the perfect PC in the post era of all of this stuff and you know of course the personal computer is the ultimate tool. It's my ultimate tool and for a whole generation of people it's our ultimate tool. Um, what happens in the era of agents uh when when when the agent is on your computer, it is now your personal assistant, but it wants to have access to all of the amazing tools that we have, but the amazing tools are spread out in the Nvidia ecosystem into uh gaming PCs. >> Yeah. >> Into workstations. And that's where most of the tools were, right? all the all

06:05the all the do tools and all the seammen's tools and uh autodesk and adobe and you saw many of them just now and you know we want the world's best blender the world's best unreal the world's best omniverse the world's best kia everything all sitting on the same PC >> um as the AI >> and so how do we go create that by the way took four years >> wow [laughter] >> that was a four year ago conversation and just incredible >> now that's very good segue today and Satia so I think the last few months you know we've been sort of inundated with these stories of agents in security you know we all use agents I'm sure everybody here is using amuse or uh instinct and you are giving full disk access and you're having it act as you

MXC: a new OS primitive for agents

06:50and today when you guys showed MXC it seemed to me like a fundamental new operating system primitive for agents which is a break from where we have been so maybe talk to us about why the OS is the right place for this and what this primitive if you will opens up. >> Yeah. No, first of all remember this all started with coding agents all running on the desktop. I mean in fact if you sort of look at uh where is the agent that needs this security primitive the most. It's the local harness and its access to the file system and to be able to take action. And so that's why in fact you know working with Jensen and team we said look how do we wire you know wire this in into the primitives whether it's in the cloud or in uh uh in

07:41the operating system locally and given the fact that essentially coding went there first where the harness is local even if you were using a cloud model we needed to make the desktop uh the most secure place for agents to execute and so that's where MXC comes from it's fantastic FIC to see open shell now fully integrated and native with MXC the controls that Pin talked about right which is containment itself has to be done at every level right it's not about sort of doing one thing and leaving the other right it has to be at the microVM it has to be at the WM it has to be at the session the piece that I'm most excited about is the Windows session having containment right it's so so critical then okay containment is

08:24wonderful but then I need full observability how do you get observability you get it If you have an identity for an agent that I can track I can then see the entire exhaust of the agent right all of it uh and then I can govern it that means I can like classic set policy and have it govern that is now what's going to give peace of mind whether it's to IT ops to sec ops uh and by the way and the other thing that we should also not forget is the ability to track the token spend right and where it's happening and so that's the entirety of what we have tried to bring together. It's not about any one thing. It's about stitching all these things. Having seen all these adoption cycles, whether it's the consumer adoption

09:06cycle, the enterprise adoption cycle, I would say [clears throat] the thing that blocks broad diffusion is not having that complete thought on what is required. Right? So if you do one and leave the other, there's no trust and what have you. So I feel very very good that we have brought it together in the cloud in the in the client across it sack and fin and it's heterogeneous right it's not about any one piece of Microsoft technology it's about supporting it all >> what Satia just said what Satia just said uh is going to be the foundation of the next generation of it as we know it yeah if you go the words he used what he described the architecture deeply profound for the next generation of computers just as Windows Windows and

09:51and DirectX revolutionized how applications were built. MXC is going to revolutionize how agents are built and deployed >> without it started without it complete non-starter and so this big big deal now this is I think closely tied to the next piece um for both of you which is hybrid intelligence now this feels a little different I think everybody here has uses large model in the cloud you use it it runs a tool maybe using blender and you get back a response we're all used to that's the In a few years, this feels different where you have a choice of models, some running locally, some in the cloud, and you're going back and forth. And one sentence from the presenter who spoke at GitHub, which actually stood out to me

Hybrid intelligence: local and cloud together

10:38was you're getting these tokens for free, right? And so maybe talk to us about what this opens up because this feels again something new where you are running part of the workload here in the locally on your on your laptop, part of it in the cloud and intelligently routing between it. What does this open up? >> Yeah. for first of all, you know, I think this is one of those moments where um some of the things that you've been using all click together, right? In fact, it's kind of I was thinking about this in the late 80s when I was in grad school, I kind of had a a a terminal, right? My VT0000 and a VAX. Um and um and then I had a PC at home. >> Mhm. >> Um and I kind of was using it all. In fact, it's interesting that on my PC, I

11:32had um essentially a modem with a terminal connecting to my wax and then I had all my local DOSs and uh you know early Windows and what have you and then suddenly it took all and by the way I had Usenet all of that stuff but except it took all the way maybe until 95 and even Mosaic right the first browser to bring it all together as one seamless experience right it's not about local cloud, what have you. I just want to use my computing power wherever it is in sort of a seamless flow of what I'm trying to get done. So when I was seeing even what Danielle was showing that demo is mind-blowing. I mean think about that moment. I think we're going to come back years from now and say, "Oh my god, that

12:20was when we saw >> what he did was he went to Comfy UI. He brought down a bunch of models, built a bunch of assets, took it to Blender, uh used that to even enhance those assets, then used again brought it back to Comfy. Oh, went to Photoshop, used a local model perhaps to sort of enhance it, took it back to Comfy UI, then took it all to the cloud with Astra, with Unreal, but he just used apps on his desktop, models, local, models in the cloud. It all just work. That is what this is about. Like that's kind of where today was about multiple fantastic devices, all these things. But the trajectory for me is so clear. There will never be a moment where we will go and look and say, "Oh, this runs locally, this runs in the cloud." You

13:13will expect this hybrid intelligence to be everywhere and pervasive. And I think that that's what to me is pretty exciting. Yeah, that one application what you just said Blender was accelerated, Comfy UI was accelerated, Astro was in the cloud, the agents were locally. I mean, it's just the the surface area surface area. That's cool. The surface area of computing was magnificent. >> Yeah, >> it is comp. It it brought together literally the entire might of lit every single technology company in human history came together for that one application. >> That's right. And and by the way going back to sort of the way you talk about accelerated computer that was I mean his point about why he was excited what took

13:55him multiple days takes him hours like that the fact that he was accelerated in his ambition and that to me is pretty cool >> which I think you know this ties closely to something else because these models have gotten very good at tool use but the tools often live locally. you know the files live locally by the way you know Jacob and I are still both of us are filing taxes at the last minute apparently um and and I think there is a aspect here about >> I want my data to be secure and safe and controlled I want the tool use to happen near where the data is where if you look at what Jacob showed with co-pilot like that it really opens up something new >> yeah I mean to me like one of the things

Agents as users of file systems and tools

14:37right if you look at it in fact one of the when the coding agents became the thing. I was excited to see everybody who's in love with, you know, one the console uh and everybody was love with file systems. Again, it just shows how powerful of an abstraction of file system is. >> I think agents are going to be the largest users of file system. They need to be secure. >> They need to be because they're a heterogeneous collection space. Uh and what his tax example, Jacob SP, was a great one, right? Basically what it did was it organized from as he said from downloads from even cloud files, email everything into a file system container and then used models locally and in the cloud to go do stuff with it and that is

15:24the new computer right so it's a I use the computer my agents use the computer the agents need these primitives as well and so I think like one drive when was the last time I thought of one drive as a cloud thing or a client thing It's there everywhere. And so to me, that is what I think we're beginning to see is, hey, I want my primitives for my agents to use 24 by7. The form factor when I'm using it on my PC should feel like I'm using it on my PC. When I'm roaming, it should roam with me. >> You know what's amazing, as you know, is is that these agents are going to be better users of tools than us. Yes. And the reason for that is just we know 10 15% of the features of any application, but the agent knows every single

16:08feature. >> That's right. >> And so so the the the fact that the tools, these incredible tools are sitting on your PC, they're they're accelerated in in this incredible computer Surface Ultra. Uh now the agent has access to all of that capability. Who knows what we're going to be able to do? I mean, just look at what it did. It was the Blender, the Unreal, the Comfy AI was incredible. >> Could show of hands. How many people here have tried using one of these apps locally with a model in the last couple of months or few months? Great. Right. And so I think this just kind of show goes to show where you can actually bring the tool use locally. Now Jensen, I want to ask you about the hardware piece of this. Right. We very often see

The new super chip and Surface Laptop Ultra

16:47you talking about these big massive you know Verra Rubins Blackwells NVL72s you know these you know intelligence token factories um you know that's you know that power data centers here today we're talking about something different right like we're talking about the spark the workstation which I really want for Christmas you know which runs in your office talk to me a little bit about how you see this evolution about tokens being produced like right next to you as opposed to you know Ver Rub in data in the data center. >> Well uh the number of engineers that worked on this project is incredible over 4,000 engineering years. This is a massive project. I mean look what we've done. We've reinvented the personal

17:33computer completely. For the first time we took all the capabilities what used to be in a gaming PC, in a laptop uh in a workstation in a supercomput in the cloud. We unified the architecture and we made it run on one super chip. This super chip, you know, it's rectangular because it's two giant chips fused together. And so this it's a beast. It has one pedlops. Just to put in perspective, the computer that started the AI revolution called DGX1 was one pedal >> and it was a quarter of a it was a quarter of a billion dollars and um it weighed 500 lb and now it's in this in your laptop. Um, but what's what's amazing is this is also the only computer, the only computer in the world that runs DirectX and all of its

18:22applications, OpenGL and every single version of it because we need all the tools and design tools, right? Creative tools. We need everything to run. We need Unreal to run incredibly well. So, DirectX has to be amazing and it runs every single CUDA application incredibly. what what uh Satia and I were talking about four years ago is, you know, we're going to have a whole new generation of software developers and these software developers are going to be AI software developers. They're either going to be creating AI applications and AI models or they're going to be using AI to to develop their software. And so the computer has to be revolutionized and has to be really good at CUDA from the ground up. And so this

19:01is the only computer on the planet that runs everything natively on the device. the first time ever. And so it took thousands of us to do this, but it also took the entire industry. Look behind us. Every single laptop maker, every single do desktop maker, every single workstation maker joined us. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. >> This is the first time I think first time I think a new piece of hardware, new computer architecture have come together and the entire industry top to bottom, left to right, everybody's involved, every single geography. And so this is a complete reinvention. We understand the seriousness of the work that we're doing doing here. We've now test tested some over 1,200 applications.

19:46>> The most intense applications in the world. All fully tested, performance tested, compatibility tested, everything has been optimized. We're going to keep on going. The support for this system, the the amount of software we're going to bring to it, middleware, algorithms, I mean, it will never end. This is just a magnificent thing that when you when you finally look at it, you look at this beautiful laptop. Pav stands up here with this beautiful laptop, you know, but the number of engineers between our two companies and all of the companies around the world that did this incredible all because we believe that the personal computer was our tool tool for people. Now it's going to be tool for people, but it's also going to be

20:26our personal assistant that uses the tool. >> Now, one last thing for both of you. I think if you've been on X for the last few days, there has been this intense conversation about I would say personal agents. We've been talking about productivity and maybe enterprise agents here whether it is muse instinct there's this question about hey when this agent goes out and makes a purchase is that me or the agent who is liable for it and if I'm a service provider how do I react to this human being no longer showing up on my website and people are trying to build standards and as an industry I think we're trying to figure this out. So I'm sort of curious if you kind of had to peer into the crystal ball a bit

Trust, liability and personal agents

21:02where do you see this headed right is it standards is the industry coallesing around some new behaviors where do you see this headed >> yeah I mean first of all I think it starts with a little bit of the conversation we had uh in the early part which is trust um and trust starts with things like hey are these agents contained do they have identity is the exhaust uh of the agent with the identity separate from the user right which is one Pawan's thing was how do we make sure the agent ID that's even working on behalf is separate from the user and you need it even for everyday uh usage but you also need it for what I think you're referencing which is how do I then trust what do I delegate in fact

21:46if you look at the first decision that we are making is what is my delegation um you know authority that I am giving to the agent uh on my behalf right and that is a decision that's going to be based on trust and it'll keep increasing the more autonomous it is uh you trust it and go so then I think on the consumer space this will come down to even you know I I think of it as insurance will price this >> insurance >> because at some level we can all talk about it's not like oath is hard to do right I think the protocols are good we should do them and t but ultimately it's going to be pricing the the essentially the agent working on my behalf. Uh, and how does the marketplace price it? >> Your question at the at the foundation

22:36of it, MXC is so foundational. Open Shell, the work that we're doing together, it's about it's about trust. It's about containment. It's about observability, monitoring. If we can't get that right, that's right. Oh yeah. >> If we just can't get right. So that's the first part. We have got to secure that part of it so that the agents that are operating on our behalf, doing things on our behalf, we give it minimum rights. It has credentials. It is monitored and trusted. Only then can we allow these agents to really go off and do do uh do tasks on our behalf. >> You know, today's an awful moment. I remember when open clock came out from there with the terminal hacking to get their own um gateway to here where it is

23:15an embedded piece of Windows, you know, with tokens running accelerated. It's quite something. >> So much engineering went engineering went into that that arrived today. >> Amazing. And it is a great device. Let me just tell you that honestly. Well, Jensen, Satia, thank you so much. It's a great day. Thank you for having me. And I'm going to throw it back to Pav >> and Satia and Microsoft team. >> We have reinvented the computer as we know it. >> Thank you so much, Jensen. Thanks for the partnership. Really excited today. And I think as you said like one thing I if I can end with Jensen just in passing talked about the vision for this was how do we I mean Windows has always been about how do we not leave any piece of

Closing reflections

23:54code any piece of framework behind and bring it all. The fact that he talked about hey we're going to bring all of Windows apps all of the the graphics apps all of CUDA all of OpenGL and now with the token factory that is what is mind-blowing. Windows has been with me for 34 years. Looks like it's going to be with me for 34 more. >> There you go. Thank you so much.