WEBVTT 00:00:00.090 --> 00:00:01.807 - We have to build systems like Palantir 00:00:01.890 --> 00:00:04.417 and we have to explain to people with working class skills, 00:00:04.500 --> 00:00:07.537 people with normal jobs, that their labor's gonna become more important 00:00:07.620 --> 00:00:10.237 and more valuable over time with products like ours. 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:11.767 If you run around saying that, you know, 00:00:11.850 --> 00:00:14.917 oh, the economy is gonna completely shift to value creation, 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:19.417 only owned by 10,000 people, people on the left and the right are gonna go nuts. 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:21.787 - I'm Steven Levy, Editor at Large at "Wired." 00:00:21.870 --> 00:00:24.967 I sat down with Alex Karp, CEO of Palantir, 00:00:25.050 --> 00:00:27.637 a controversial company that orchestrates data 00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:30.337 and solves problems for government and business. 00:00:30.420 --> 00:00:33.127 We discussed Palantir's work with ICE and Israel 00:00:33.210 --> 00:00:35.797 and why he feels the company has no competitors. 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:37.837 Welcome to "The Big Interview." 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.590 [intense music] 00:00:44.070 --> 00:00:46.657 Well, first of all, lemme say welcome to "The Big Interview." 00:00:46.740 --> 00:00:51.667 - Okay. - Dr. Alex Karp. You said that Palantir is at odds 00:00:51.750 --> 00:00:54.337 with Silicon Valley from the very beginning. 00:00:54.420 --> 00:00:57.337 You have kind of a harsh critique of Silicon Valley. 00:00:57.420 --> 00:01:00.607 You want Palantir to be different. 00:01:00.690 --> 00:01:02.947 What do you think the biggest problem of Silicon Valley was? 00:01:03.030 --> 00:01:07.537 - Well, we have a long and managing relationship with Silicon Valley. 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:11.377 In the beginning we were at odds because we were pro-American, pro-West, 00:01:11.460 --> 00:01:13.087 and pro-making the government functional, 00:01:13.170 --> 00:01:15.037 and that was very controversial in Silicon Valley 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.327 because it equated to not making any money and being a loser. 00:01:18.410 --> 00:01:22.057 We won that battle. And I think Silicon Valley actually has become very, 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:25.177 at least officially and even behind closed doors, patriotic 00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:28.597 and Silicon Valley has always been pro-meritocracy 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:30.517 and we're very aligned with that. 00:01:30.600 --> 00:01:35.077 Where we're currently at like a misalignment-alignment apex again, 00:01:35.160 --> 00:01:38.287 is we believe in using large language models 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:40.747 in a way that creates actual empirical value, 00:01:40.830 --> 00:01:44.557 but also, is very strong for workers, technical people, 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:46.717 whether you're a plumber, carpenter, or electrician, 00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:48.697 or you are a high school grad working in a plant 00:01:48.780 --> 00:01:51.207 where you'd normally be doing engineering things or couldn't do them. 00:01:51.290 --> 00:01:54.607 We see our products as being able to enhance your market value. 00:01:54.690 --> 00:01:57.397 And so, we're kind of pro-labor and pro-military. 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:00.637 So we're much closer to Silicon Valley on the patriotism thing. 00:02:00.720 --> 00:02:04.147 But for decades we fought Silicon Valley 00:02:04.230 --> 00:02:07.267 about, you know, government is something we should support. 00:02:07.350 --> 00:02:10.267 We walked towards the government when everyone walked away. 00:02:10.350 --> 00:02:12.637 That's how we ended up powering Maven, 00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:14.937 which is the, you know, US government's military. 00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:17.537 - Yeah, you took advantage when the Google workforce said, 00:02:17.620 --> 00:02:19.987 "We don't want Google to work on Maven." 00:02:20.070 --> 00:02:22.057 - And then we built it, yeah, but. 00:02:22.140 --> 00:02:23.587 - Explain what Project Maven is. 00:02:23.670 --> 00:02:26.767 - Well, so to find an adversary on a battlefield 00:02:26.850 --> 00:02:31.597 from any sensor including space, is a massive integration in analytics project. 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:34.177 So, how do you find basically a needle in a haystack? 00:02:34.260 --> 00:02:38.977 And where that needle is also complex because it may look like your adversary, 00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:41.187 but maybe that person's actually working for you. 00:02:41.270 --> 00:02:44.527 Maybe they're in your service, maybe their phone has been compromised. 00:02:44.610 --> 00:02:48.187 Finding that needle in a haystack, so find a person 00:02:48.270 --> 00:02:51.577 that is your adversary, you wanna take out across a massive landscape 00:02:51.660 --> 00:02:54.937 where you have a human controlled in the loop, like targeting workbench. 00:02:55.020 --> 00:02:57.007 So you say, you know, this target's been approved. 00:02:57.090 --> 00:03:00.517 Why? Under what conditions? The data protections that are necessary, 00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:02.977 the civil liberty protections, interestingly, that are necessary. 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:06.637 And doing that at scale on the battlefield was not possible. 00:03:06.720 --> 00:03:10.357 And now, it's been used in every operational context across the world. 00:03:10.440 --> 00:03:12.457 And you know, there are many things that have led 00:03:12.540 --> 00:03:15.757 to America's ability to reestablish its deterrence, 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.067 I would say, after the disaster in Afghanistan. 00:03:18.150 --> 00:03:21.817 But one of them was actually one of many corrosicism 00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:25.877 of our soldiers may, I think one of the other things is just the superiority 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:27.517 of the targeting capabilities the US government has. 00:03:27.600 --> 00:03:30.007 And you know, there are other people in other companies, 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:31.147 but we are the backbone of that. 00:03:31.230 --> 00:03:34.717 - A lot of your government connections, they go back early. 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:38.437 You know, you've worked for ICE, you've had long-term contract with them, right? 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:39.847 - Well, that's actually later. 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:43.027 I mean, our first contracts were at US Intelligence, 00:03:43.110 --> 00:03:47.647 so CIA, Special Operations, and FBI 00:03:47.730 --> 00:03:50.617 and our biggest contracts ended up being in the DOD. 00:03:50.700 --> 00:03:54.157 And then later we started working in Homeland Security under Democrats. 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:56.827 Now it's very controversial because it's Trump in my view. 00:03:56.910 --> 00:03:58.207 - Well, it's controversial 00:03:58.290 --> 00:04:01.237 because he's doing things that we haven't seen done before. 00:04:01.320 --> 00:04:05.047 I want to ask you, do you keep an eye on that? 00:04:05.130 --> 00:04:10.267 Are you making sure that your products are being used according to your code, 00:04:10.350 --> 00:04:11.947 which supports democracy? 00:04:12.030 --> 00:04:15.937 And you know, it says people can't be discriminated against. 00:04:16.020 --> 00:04:19.327 I'm wondering if there's a line for you where you would say- 00:04:19.410 --> 00:04:20.827 - Okay. - To a president, "No." 00:04:20.910 --> 00:04:22.687 - We were the, I mean this is like, 00:04:22.770 --> 00:04:24.757 there's all these things that no one believes are true. 00:04:24.840 --> 00:04:28.327 I was the first, and I may be one of the few CEOs 00:04:28.410 --> 00:04:30.427 to say we would not build a Muslim database. 00:04:30.510 --> 00:04:33.997 Now, everyone thinks I'm like, and I am, you know, I've defended Israel. 00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:37.597 I think, like, people who wake up in the morning thinking 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:38.947 about how Jews are running the world, 00:04:39.030 --> 00:04:41.287 and actually, you believe whatever you wanna believe. 00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:44.497 I'm not so concerned about people who are skeptical about Jews 00:04:44.580 --> 00:04:45.817 or even their antisemitic, 00:04:45.900 --> 00:04:47.947 but like people who wake up in the morning, in the evening, 00:04:48.030 --> 00:04:49.297 and night thinking about this. 00:04:49.380 --> 00:04:53.407 I think like, you know, Jewish derangement syndrome is a little bit of a carcinogen. 00:04:53.490 --> 00:04:55.537 So, I think I'm the last person in the world 00:04:55.620 --> 00:04:58.387 people kind of expect in the kind of rude 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:01.327 and crude way people think of this to refuse revenue, 00:05:01.410 --> 00:05:03.787 to build, you know, a Muslim database. 00:05:03.870 --> 00:05:07.597 And I would say more like at a high level, 'cause I can't go into the details, 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:11.017 people internally know I pulled things 00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:14.677 from places where I thought there was anything like that going on in the US. 00:05:14.760 --> 00:05:16.267 Discrimination, yes, I'm against that. 00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:18.337 By the way, even if I was in favor of it, 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:21.547 our products make that nearly as impossible 00:05:21.630 --> 00:05:23.317 as anyone's ever seen in a product. 00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:25.267 Because the way you do these things, 00:05:25.350 --> 00:05:27.997 the way you discriminate against people politically 00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:31.537 or based on their gender or race, you do not have what are called ackles. 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:33.907 So, you can't see where the data's flowing. 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:36.367 What you can immediately see, not as a technical person, 00:05:36.450 --> 00:05:40.147 but as you, your cameraman, everyone watching this can go look 00:05:40.230 --> 00:05:42.187 and see how is the data merged? 00:05:42.270 --> 00:05:43.627 What kind of pipelines did you create? 00:05:43.710 --> 00:05:45.667 What were the assumptions that went into it? 00:05:45.750 --> 00:05:49.807 Where did the data flow? But where you and I disagree with maybe 00:05:49.890 --> 00:05:52.687 is I spent half my life in Europe. 00:05:52.770 --> 00:05:58.927 I am an immigration skeptic. Like, and I personally think that US people, 00:05:59.010 --> 00:06:03.667 meaning citizens, have to decide by their vote 00:06:03.750 --> 00:06:05.407 what our immigration policy is gonna be. 00:06:05.490 --> 00:06:07.507 And I'll tell you one of the reasons I'm very skeptical 00:06:07.590 --> 00:06:13.717 of my own party is that open border was not only a disaster, but it was tolerated. 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:17.317 And that is massively corrosive and it's corrosive to democracy 00:06:17.400 --> 00:06:20.767 and it's corrosive to people. And leaving all the theory aside, like I was, 00:06:20.850 --> 00:06:24.907 I grew up in a progressive family, classic progressives my age and older 00:06:24.990 --> 00:06:27.337 were massive immigration skeptics. 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:30.157 Open borders is not a progressive policy. 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:31.837 It is not a progressive policy. 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.437 It never was. And then the fruits of this, you know, 00:06:35.520 --> 00:06:38.107 I spent most of my life, adult life in Germany. 00:06:38.190 --> 00:06:41.827 Look at what a version of open borders a little different has done to Germany. 00:06:41.910 --> 00:06:46.657 On any vector: rights of women, rights of gay people, future of society. - Well. 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:49.327 - I just wanna make it clear. - Yeah, yeah. - I am against discrimination. 00:06:49.410 --> 00:06:50.527 I'm not saying you're saying this, 00:06:50.610 --> 00:06:53.467 but people tend to merge being against discrimination 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:57.457 with being, to be against discrimination, I have to accept that there's nothing 00:06:57.540 --> 00:07:00.277 that can be done about illegal immigration in the West. 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:01.747 And I just, I disagree with that. 00:07:01.830 --> 00:07:03.997 But more importantly than me disagreeing with it, 00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:05.557 the American people disagree with it. 00:07:05.640 --> 00:07:07.447 And I, quite frankly, you're not asking this, 00:07:07.530 --> 00:07:09.337 I think one of the reasons why the Democratic Party 00:07:09.420 --> 00:07:11.497 continues to fail and continues to fail 00:07:11.580 --> 00:07:14.197 and continues to fail is their talent managed. 00:07:14.280 --> 00:07:16.747 Which like in businesses, like you have this problem 00:07:16.830 --> 00:07:20.297 where the people doing the work sometimes need to be told, 00:07:20.380 --> 00:07:21.787 "No, you're wrong and we're not doing that." 00:07:21.870 --> 00:07:25.147 And the Democratic party and people like it, the Green Party in Germany, 00:07:25.230 --> 00:07:26.647 I don't view these policies as progressive. 00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:31.277 - Well, I guess what I'm saying is are you monitoring sort of what's happening 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.477 with this government and democracy in this country 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:38.827 and saying, "Maybe at some point I have to look at-" 00:07:38.910 --> 00:07:40.177 - I would say the more important question 00:07:40.260 --> 00:07:42.907 is have I ever worked against our commercial interest 00:07:42.990 --> 00:07:44.407 because it violated our norms? 00:07:44.490 --> 00:07:46.237 Yes. Have I done this in governments? 00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:50.097 Yes. Have I refused? We get no credit for this, but we almost went outta business, 00:07:50.180 --> 00:07:53.527 'cause we were not working in Russia, China, or anywhere else, so yes. 00:07:53.610 --> 00:07:55.747 Have we refused give our product 00:07:55.830 --> 00:07:58.297 to foreign governments because we didn't agree with them? 00:07:58.380 --> 00:08:01.657 Yes. Do I agree with your implicit assertion 00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:05.497 that what's going on in immigration as you formulate it has never been done before? 00:08:05.580 --> 00:08:07.837 No, I think actually that's completely crazy. 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:09.517 You know, when you're in Japan, 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.747 if you miss your visa, do you know what happens to you? 00:08:13.830 --> 00:08:16.137 - I didn't overstay my visa. - Okay, great. 00:08:16.220 --> 00:08:18.547 I'll tell you what happens. You politely are put on a plane. 00:08:18.630 --> 00:08:21.907 Is Japan not a democracy? Do you know what happens in like Singapore? 00:08:21.990 --> 00:08:26.017 - Well, I think like- - You're, but I just, no, I think this 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:27.287 is a very valuable line of questioning. 00:08:27.370 --> 00:08:33.337 You're asking does our product allow for civil rights abuses and will I intervene? 00:08:33.420 --> 00:08:36.547 - Yeah. - Our product is the hardest in the world to violate. 00:08:36.630 --> 00:08:40.657 Will I intervene? Yes. Do I agree with some of the assertions you just made? 00:08:40.740 --> 00:08:45.307 No. The legitimate criticism could be, hey, these are two very rational people. 00:08:45.390 --> 00:08:48.397 You know, you're bringing up exactly the core and right question. 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.027 And I'm telling you that I have done this, I will do it. 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:55.207 And I've continued to do it. And by the way, not that people our age 00:08:55.290 --> 00:08:56.887 like the term constructive engagement, 00:08:56.970 --> 00:09:00.937 I am as obnoxious in private as I am with you, with people I agree with. 00:09:01.020 --> 00:09:03.457 So, like, when they're asking me to do stupid shit, 00:09:03.540 --> 00:09:06.767 I can assure you, I'm telling- - Wait, is this stupid shit or something? 00:09:06.850 --> 00:09:07.607 - No, no, I'm not saying you're asking me to do it, 00:09:07.690 --> 00:09:09.097 but I can assure you one of the things 00:09:09.180 --> 00:09:13.057 you can be certain of 100% is when somebody calls me 00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:15.397 and asking me to do some completely illogical, 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:17.257 mostly it's illogical before it's immoral. 00:09:17.340 --> 00:09:18.457 That's the thing people understand. 00:09:18.540 --> 00:09:21.247 It's illogical. It will not get you the result you think. 00:09:21.330 --> 00:09:24.687 I am telling them, "This is illogical and we're not gonna do it." 00:09:24.770 --> 00:09:26.917 By the way, there's variants of this commercial. 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:29.287 I have commercial clients, this is not even moral, 00:09:29.370 --> 00:09:31.657 who are like, "Hey, could you give me 50 engineers 00:09:31.740 --> 00:09:33.877 to do some crazy thing that will not help their business?" 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:35.497 And you know what I'm telling them? 00:09:35.580 --> 00:09:38.257 No. One of the things that happens when people work with me 00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:39.847 is they see I'm meeting clients 00:09:39.930 --> 00:09:42.067 and they'll ask me to do something that makes no sense 00:09:42.150 --> 00:09:44.557 and I'll tell them, "I can't go to my engineers 00:09:44.640 --> 00:09:45.857 and tell them to do something that makes no sense." 00:09:45.940 --> 00:09:48.847 - Yeah. - And this is, I think a lot of these questions come down to that. 00:09:48.930 --> 00:09:55.537 Now, where we have to expand the prism of dialogue is I think in complete honesty, 00:09:55.620 --> 00:09:58.327 there is a place where you and I, forget you and I, 00:09:58.410 --> 00:10:02.137 you step in, you're just honestly talking to you's just like talking to my family. 00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:05.107 It's like, where me and my family disagree. 00:10:05.190 --> 00:10:07.057 And I'll tell you where those places are. 00:10:07.140 --> 00:10:10.237 They're on the border, they're in Israel, and they're in Ukraine. 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.957 And what's super surprising is I get yelled at all day 00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:17.377 about of those three issues. And by the way, the issue I don't get yelled at 00:10:17.460 --> 00:10:19.027 about the elite is about Ukraine. 00:10:19.110 --> 00:10:21.247 The issue I get, obviously, the Israel thing is like, 00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:23.437 you know, only thing anyone ever wants to talk about. 00:10:23.520 --> 00:10:25.687 You would not, it's like somehow people have forgotten 00:10:25.770 --> 00:10:28.087 it's a country with a GDP smaller than Switzerland, 00:10:28.170 --> 00:10:31.837 but you know, and then my progressive friends, it's all ICE all day. 00:10:31.920 --> 00:10:35.017 - Some people might actually not even know what Palantir does. 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:39.727 In the shortest possible way, could you explain to people who just know it 00:10:39.810 --> 00:10:42.577 as sort of something they see on a page and don't like 00:10:42.660 --> 00:10:44.527 and saying, "Hey, this is what it really is?" 00:10:44.610 --> 00:10:48.637 - Or love. We have a lot of people who love us and some people don't, but yeah, 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.037 we tend to elicit strong reactions on both sides. 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.087 So, that's definitely fair. If you're internal or external intelligence, 00:10:55.170 --> 00:10:57.337 you're using us to find terrorists 00:10:57.420 --> 00:11:00.967 and find organized criminals while maintaining security 00:11:01.050 --> 00:11:03.637 and maintaining the data protection of your country. 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:06.157 So, like the highest data protection environments 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:08.767 in the world, Western Europe would love to get rid of us. 00:11:08.850 --> 00:11:10.417 They try every day to get rid of us. 00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:14.317 But building a data protection environment that actually allows you 00:11:14.400 --> 00:11:16.567 to do anti-organized criminality environment 00:11:16.650 --> 00:11:20.047 with that also does data protection at any level of granularity, 00:11:20.130 --> 00:11:23.287 at any level of complexity is very, very hard. 00:11:23.370 --> 00:11:26.797 Ask the German government. They would love to find another alternative. 00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:30.137 And honestly, I'd have no problem with them finding it, but it's very hard. 00:11:30.220 --> 00:11:31.807 So, that's one thing we do. Then you have the battlefield, 00:11:31.890 --> 00:11:34.447 the Project Maven, and also organizing the battlefield, 00:11:34.530 --> 00:11:35.857 what the Special Forces use it for. 00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:37.237 How do you know where your troops are? 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:38.947 How do you bring them home with all the data 00:11:39.030 --> 00:11:40.807 that you'd have from any source environment? 00:11:40.890 --> 00:11:42.907 How do you manage assets while doing that? 00:11:42.990 --> 00:11:46.717 Meaning assets from the other side, assets meaning spies, basically. 00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:50.377 How do you get the human, how do you prepare your egress? 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:54.847 How do you get in and out of the battlefield safely, as safely as possible? 00:11:54.930 --> 00:11:57.337 So, avoiding mines, avoiding enemies, 00:11:57.420 --> 00:11:59.227 those things change rapidly on the battlefield. 00:11:59.310 --> 00:12:00.757 That's a software problem that's powered 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:04.717 in great part by us across America and with our allies. 00:12:04.800 --> 00:12:08.797 How do you supply targeting capabilities to allies, 00:12:08.880 --> 00:12:11.467 Ukraine, Israel, so that they get the product, 00:12:11.550 --> 00:12:13.897 but obviously, we don't have access to the full data they use, 00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:16.207 'cause we're not part of those countries. 00:12:16.290 --> 00:12:21.217 That's a Palantir thing. On the commercial side, it's, you know, how do you to make, 00:12:21.300 --> 00:12:24.127 I mean the current version would be if you want AI to work, 00:12:24.210 --> 00:12:25.897 you're gonna have to have precursor things. 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:27.757 You can think of it as like the precursor to make anything. 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.227 What are those things gonna be? 00:12:29.310 --> 00:12:30.847 You're gonna need high fidelity data. 00:12:30.930 --> 00:12:34.087 To have high fidelity data, you're gonna need to be able to integrate your data 00:12:34.170 --> 00:12:36.787 with a model you understand. You're gonna have to build something called pipelining, 00:12:36.870 --> 00:12:40.717 meaning you can serialize and deserialize a technical way of taking apart 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:42.457 and putting together the assumptions within the data. 00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:44.797 You're gonna have to be able to maintain your security model 00:12:44.880 --> 00:12:46.957 and maintain the logic and actions of your business. 00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:49.657 And you're gonna have to be able to extract that, so ontology. 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:54.697 So shorthand, if you're doing anything that involves operational intelligence, 00:12:54.780 --> 00:13:00.217 whether it's analytics or AI, you're gonna have to find something like ontology 00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:03.217 or foundry and you know, and FTEs to install it. 00:13:03.300 --> 00:13:05.527 That's Palantir. - It's interesting, 'cause you, 00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:10.207 going back a little, you implied that, you know, the rest of Silicon Valley 00:13:10.290 --> 00:13:12.367 hasn't figured out how to do that. 00:13:12.450 --> 00:13:15.367 That you're unique in exploiting that. 00:13:15.450 --> 00:13:20.317 - Well it's, yeah. What I'm really saying is we know how to do it. 00:13:20.400 --> 00:13:22.447 If you find someone else who can do it 00:13:22.530 --> 00:13:24.397 and you don't wanna work with us, buy it from them. 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.647 - I mean, is there anyone you consider a competitor? 00:13:26.730 --> 00:13:28.747 - Our competition is actually political. 00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:30.247 The woke left and the woke right 00:13:30.330 --> 00:13:32.827 wake up every day figuring out how they can hurt Palantir 00:13:32.910 --> 00:13:35.347 and if they get into power, they'll hurt Palantir. 00:13:35.430 --> 00:13:36.757 How could you build a society 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:40.007 with unfettered migration in Europe and not have Palantir? 00:13:40.090 --> 00:13:42.307 I don't know how you're gonna do that, but they think they can do that. 00:13:42.390 --> 00:13:45.727 If they win, if the communists in France win, they will pull us out. 00:13:45.810 --> 00:13:49.597 If like the Mamdani win of the Democratic party takes over, 00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:52.867 I viewed that as my party. But if that's the party I'm not in it. 00:13:52.950 --> 00:13:57.007 Or if the right woke wing, which is like everything is a conspiracy. 00:13:57.090 --> 00:14:00.427 Any use of technology is actually gonna only be used 00:14:00.510 --> 00:14:05.437 to eviscerate and attack us is like, our data protection part of Palantir 00:14:05.520 --> 00:14:06.787 is built into the software. 00:14:06.870 --> 00:14:09.607 It is literally the hardest software to abuse in the world, 00:14:09.690 --> 00:14:10.867 but they don't seem to want it. 00:14:10.950 --> 00:14:12.907 But if you like, don't want meritocracy, 00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:15.967 either left or right, you don't like the consequence of it, you hate Palantir. 00:14:16.050 --> 00:14:18.337 And that is actually our competition. 00:14:18.420 --> 00:14:21.517 And by the way, not that they believe it. 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.527 The thing that is protecting those people, 00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:26.077 the people that hate us the most is actually our product. 00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:28.477 Because it is the hardest product to misuse 00:14:28.560 --> 00:14:31.927 to take away the rights of human beings that's ever been built. 00:14:32.010 --> 00:14:34.267 And don't believe me, just go look at it, 00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:37.537 spend 10 minutes looking at it, find a technical person 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:39.637 and look at our architecture or look at it yourself. 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.317 And that's actually our competition. 00:14:41.400 --> 00:14:43.627 And you know, in a weird way, we embrace the competition 00:14:43.710 --> 00:14:45.607 because they say these crazy things about us 00:14:45.690 --> 00:14:47.827 and then the smart people go look at it. 00:14:47.910 --> 00:14:49.957 - My head's spinning a little, how did Mamdani get in there? 00:14:50.040 --> 00:14:52.717 - I would say some of is downstream from, 00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:56.707 if you explain to the world that labor's gonna be valueless, 00:14:56.790 --> 00:14:59.557 people are gonna elect the most ridiculous people ever. 00:14:59.640 --> 00:15:02.827 We have to build systems like Palantir and we have to explain to people, 00:15:02.910 --> 00:15:05.917 but also let them see the results, the fruit of our labor 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:09.487 that their labor, meaning people with working class skills, 00:15:09.570 --> 00:15:13.837 people with normal jobs, that their labor's gonna become more important 00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:16.747 and more valuable over time with products like ours. 00:15:16.830 --> 00:15:19.507 Which happens to be true. If you run around saying that, you know, 00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:21.577 oh, the economy is gonna completely shift 00:15:21.660 --> 00:15:25.567 to value creation only owned by 10,000 people, 00:15:25.650 --> 00:15:27.787 people on the left and the right are gonna go nuts 00:15:27.870 --> 00:15:30.427 and they're gonna vote for people who are like basically, 00:15:30.510 --> 00:15:32.917 yeah, nothing I've said has ever worked in history. 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:34.357 It has never worked in history. 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:39.247 You cannot find a time in history where any of that stuff has ever worked, ever. 00:15:39.330 --> 00:15:42.577 They still will gravitate toward it because they're afraid of what could work, 00:15:42.660 --> 00:15:46.507 which is like an AI-driven AGI environment where no one has a job 00:15:46.590 --> 00:15:49.327 and the only people who make money are like people sitting out here. 00:15:49.410 --> 00:15:51.967 And so, that's part of the problem. 00:15:52.050 --> 00:15:56.347 Now also, honestly, I mean, you know, I think universities and elite institutions 00:15:56.430 --> 00:15:59.137 have played a really corrosive role here. 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:02.407 People are teaching pagan religion views, again, 00:16:02.490 --> 00:16:06.877 pagan religion as it's a new of religion with sacrifices. 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.187 Who's the sacrifice? Me, I'm the sacrifice. 00:16:09.270 --> 00:16:13.507 And that, again, it's also like, it's a form of thought that has never worked. 00:16:13.590 --> 00:16:15.097 - You don't seem constrained to me. 00:16:15.180 --> 00:16:17.917 You're you're doing great. - I mean, I'm not complaining. 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.937 - Yeah. - Palantir, we're not victims of Palantir. 00:16:22.020 --> 00:16:23.607 - Yeah. - We're not playing the victimhood thing. 00:16:23.690 --> 00:16:25.327 We don't, I don't think I'm a victim. 00:16:25.410 --> 00:16:28.777 I don't actually believe we should, these things should be framed as victims. 00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:32.017 And yes, we're doing very well, and you know, we might even do better. 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:35.257 - You'd have this bonkers earnings call in February. 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:39.847 Huge, huge growth and- - Well, it's like people who are not financial, 00:16:39.930 --> 00:16:42.547 which is most people, and honestly, I wouldn't be paying attention to this 00:16:42.630 --> 00:16:43.537 if I wasn't running Palantir. 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:47.647 Those numbers are a little bit like flying saucer took off numbers. 00:16:47.730 --> 00:16:49.507 So, and you know, people are financial, 00:16:49.590 --> 00:16:51.877 many of whom doubted us are like, wait a minute, 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:54.667 the plate dropped, because what it basically, it's 00:16:54.750 --> 00:16:56.797 what non-financial people might not appreciate 00:16:56.880 --> 00:17:00.187 is we're not just growing, we're growing with high margins. 00:17:00.270 --> 00:17:02.907 with, and that's in at our scale basically. 00:17:02.990 --> 00:17:06.487 In my view, never been done before, not in a similarly situated business. 00:17:06.570 --> 00:17:10.927 - You said it was an anomalous like, you know, some sort of historic moment, 00:17:11.010 --> 00:17:12.637 that the company is anomalous. 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:14.707 - You know, in a weird way we undervalue these 00:17:14.790 --> 00:17:17.647 or I undervalue the whole numeric side of our business, 00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:19.747 because it's downstream of value creation. 00:17:19.830 --> 00:17:23.767 So, if you have a, no, if you are doing anything 00:17:23.850 --> 00:17:26.497 like what we're doing, so call it 68% growth in the US, 00:17:26.580 --> 00:17:28.987 and again, we're doing it, you know, our way. 00:17:29.070 --> 00:17:33.787 Salesforce is anemic. We're not running around really trying to sell our wares. 00:17:33.870 --> 00:17:36.937 We have a conference here, people fight to get in, which is pretty cool. 00:17:37.020 --> 00:17:39.667 We have the best clients in the world, especially in America. 00:17:39.750 --> 00:17:41.977 Clearly we've tapped into something. 00:17:42.060 --> 00:17:43.537 I'll tell you what we've tapped into. 00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:45.757 There's essentially a simple thing. 00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:50.467 LLMs and software empowered LLMs create power 00:17:50.550 --> 00:17:54.457 per the expectation of preyed optimality between partner and vendor. 00:17:54.540 --> 00:17:58.627 You are going to get paid in the future a percentage of the value you create. 00:17:58.710 --> 00:18:01.277 And the value you create is going to be, you know, 00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:03.277 at some point objectively measured 00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:06.307 and it's going to flow into your financials and vice versa. 00:18:06.390 --> 00:18:11.377 - So, you have this unique culture and you even have called it a cult. 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:12.427 - It's been called a cult. 00:18:12.510 --> 00:18:17.437 - I wonder how much you cultivate that outsider mentality. 00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:19.297 It reminds me we're both from Philadelphia. 00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:24.157 Jason Kelce, after the first Super Bowl saying, "Nobody likes us, we don't care." 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:25.537 - The thing people don't understand 00:18:25.620 --> 00:18:29.407 is there's a massive feature side to being an outsider or even popular. 00:18:29.490 --> 00:18:33.547 People forget, people always think of the bug size of being unpopular. 00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:36.697 Like, you know, you're unpopular, it's not pleasant, you're not gonna like it. 00:18:36.780 --> 00:18:40.297 I don't like it actually. But there are massive feature sides. 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:42.007 Like, you get the best people in the world. 00:18:42.090 --> 00:18:45.037 Like someone says something ridiculously stupid about Palantir. 00:18:45.120 --> 00:18:49.657 Five people look at it and they, the fifth person who's exactly the kind of person 00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:53.527 you want inside your business or will be the person buying your product someday 00:18:53.610 --> 00:18:56.767 or investing in you says, "Hey, it can't be as simple as that. 00:18:56.850 --> 00:19:01.207 It's a conspiracy." It can't be as simple as they want to eviscerate my rights, 00:19:01.290 --> 00:19:03.067 because those rights would be the same rights 00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:06.517 that like an agent would need protected by the agency or something. 00:19:06.600 --> 00:19:08.707 Then those people investigate and investigate 00:19:08.790 --> 00:19:12.367 and investigate and they're like, "Wow, this is a real interesting company." 00:19:12.450 --> 00:19:15.427 And they're thinking of the 10th derivative of this problem, 00:19:15.510 --> 00:19:18.307 not the simplistic bullshit that somebody online saying 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:19.807 has no idea how our products work. 00:19:19.890 --> 00:19:24.757 And then you get the best people like a really unexpected consequence of this. 00:19:24.840 --> 00:19:28.177 There's no country in the world where our brand is as bad as France. 00:19:28.260 --> 00:19:32.887 We have the best French employees in the world, especially in US commercial. 00:19:32.970 --> 00:19:36.337 And why did they join? Because every time the communist party 00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:39.847 says we are doing these crazy things and they clearly know nothing 00:19:39.930 --> 00:19:42.317 about what they're talking about, the smartest person in France says, 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.767 "Wait a minute, if it was that simple, any idiot would've done it." 00:19:44.850 --> 00:19:46.747 By the time they're done doing the diagnostic, 00:19:46.830 --> 00:19:49.137 they're like, "Hey, there's only one company in the world I wanna work at." 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:51.547 And that's how we have the best French employees in the world. 00:19:51.630 --> 00:19:55.207 The best French employees arguably in the world are at Palantir in America. 00:19:55.290 --> 00:19:56.827 And that's very counterintuitive. 00:19:56.910 --> 00:20:00.127 Working at a company that's apparently a CIA front, 00:20:00.210 --> 00:20:02.557 which is like, yeah, obviously complete bullshit. 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.967 - Well, yeah, no, you may not be a front. 00:20:04.050 --> 00:20:06.157 Thank you so much, Alex. - Thank you very much. 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.970 Bye. 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