WEBVTT 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:03.127 I know you're used to CEOs who don't answer your question. 00:00:03.210 --> 00:00:05.210 I'm gonna directly answer your question. 00:00:06.510 --> 00:00:09.137 I run around, I get yelled at all the time for Ukraine, 00:00:09.220 --> 00:00:12.850 ICE, Israel, and generally telling the truth, which I would call, okay. 00:00:13.890 --> 00:00:16.387 The chance of world survival goes up 00:00:16.470 --> 00:00:18.770 as America becomes stronger and more dominant. 00:00:22.730 --> 00:00:26.607 Alex Karp, thanks for having us into the Palantir lair in Manhattan. 00:00:26.690 --> 00:00:30.907 Welcome to The Axios Show. - You're CEO co-founder of Palantir, 00:00:30.990 --> 00:00:32.740 What the hell is Palantir? 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:35.700 - Well, it depends who I'm talking to. 00:00:36.830 --> 00:00:40.207 Well, if I'm talking to you, we are growing the GDP of the US. 00:00:40.290 --> 00:00:44.877 We are the part of the GDP of the AI economy 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:49.837 where things are useful either on the battlefield or commercially. 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.677 And we're the only AI company with a real spread function 00:00:53.760 --> 00:00:54.887 to the working class Americans. 00:00:54.970 --> 00:00:59.347 If it's the third or fourth conversation, it would be more like we went long 00:00:59.430 --> 00:01:03.187 on the reality that large language models were useful 00:01:03.270 --> 00:01:06.777 in their application, in our software, and are not gonna be as performing 00:01:06.860 --> 00:01:08.310 as people want outside of it. 00:01:11.990 --> 00:01:14.117 You talk about a single pane of glass, right? 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:17.997 That connects AI, connects data, connects analytics. 00:01:18.080 --> 00:01:20.827 Let's give viewers an example. 00:01:20.910 --> 00:01:23.167 I'm a commander in the battlefield. 00:01:23.250 --> 00:01:27.507 What can Palantir tell me about my assets? 00:01:27.590 --> 00:01:29.967 - Well, if you're a commander in the battlefield 00:01:30.050 --> 00:01:33.467 for the first time, you have access to all your assets. 00:01:33.550 --> 00:01:37.477 When I say all, I mean also assets of foreign countries you work with 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:39.470 that are sharing a subset of the data. 00:01:40.770 --> 00:01:44.267 So that you- - So I'm looking at this pane of glass and what does it show me? 00:01:44.350 --> 00:01:46.817 - Well, it probably at this point is showing, again, 00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:48.647 it depends what you're doing, but it's probably showing, 00:01:48.730 --> 00:01:51.777 if you're say, doing a complex operation, it's showing you 00:01:51.860 --> 00:01:53.987 where the plane should fly, where the troops should be, 00:01:54.070 --> 00:01:56.447 where the muscles should go, where they shouldn't go. 00:01:56.530 --> 00:02:01.327 And again, it's doing this off of datasets that were not available to you last year. 00:02:01.410 --> 00:02:04.837 It's also be able to, you know, predict predict where you should put your assets. 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:07.960 It can and will soon be able to pick up 00:02:09.090 --> 00:02:11.177 what kind of missiles do you put on, what kind of targets? 00:02:11.260 --> 00:02:14.927 So do you put your really expensive missiles on your really expensive targets? 00:02:15.010 --> 00:02:16.387 It will at some point, and again, 00:02:16.470 --> 00:02:18.637 this is one of the most important things that's overlooked. 00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:20.307 Be able to totally orchestrate the supply chain. 00:02:20.390 --> 00:02:21.097 Be able to totally orchestrate the supply chain. 00:02:21.180 --> 00:02:22.897 So what are you building? How are you building it? 00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:25.687 Where is it be building and what companies are doing it? 00:02:25.770 --> 00:02:28.477 Understanding the cost for those companies, which is currently something 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:30.197 that's very, very hard for those companies, so... 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:34.357 There's the kind of sexy, violent part of war, which obviously in this case, 00:02:34.440 --> 00:02:36.077 would mean honestly for this commander, 00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:38.617 what it basically will mean is you'll be ahead 00:02:38.700 --> 00:02:40.907 of your adversary, you'll be able to predict their actions. 00:02:40.990 --> 00:02:45.037 You'll be able to put the best effectors on the most important targets 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.457 and the cheaper ones on less important targets. 00:02:48.540 --> 00:02:52.667 By the way, honestly, the most important thing Palantir does is prevent war. 00:02:52.750 --> 00:02:56.680 - So that sounds very useful. Why are people so suspicious of you? 00:02:58.090 --> 00:03:02.347 - Well, I actually would push back on that, which people are suspicious. 00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:04.227 So like, you know, it's really interesting. 00:03:04.310 --> 00:03:06.397 I was watching someone on TV who was like, I talk 00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:10.227 to special operators, I talk to military people, they love Palantir. 00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:13.567 Okay? So I'm just gonna say for the sake of being somewhat 00:03:13.650 --> 00:03:18.617 of a jerk, the people I care about, the people on the front line in factories, 00:03:18.700 --> 00:03:21.787 the people driving trucks, the people doing things, 00:03:21.870 --> 00:03:24.577 the people who have used our products, the war fighters, 00:03:24.660 --> 00:03:26.627 how did we get our business off the ground? 00:03:26.710 --> 00:03:29.457 War fighters who are sacrificing their lives 00:03:29.540 --> 00:03:30.957 went to generals and said, "I don't care 00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:32.917 what stars you have, I'm coming home alive." 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.877 You know, a lot of those people are suspicious 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:37.547 of us now try to take the product out of their hands. 00:03:37.630 --> 00:03:41.517 Almost all of our clients, meaning people who've bought our product started off 00:03:41.600 --> 00:03:46.687 as Palantir skeptics. And I've gone into tens of thousands of meetings 00:03:46.770 --> 00:03:48.767 now currently, when I meet the Palantir skeptic. 00:03:48.850 --> 00:03:50.647 I'm like, "That's the person who's gonna buy." 00:03:50.730 --> 00:03:52.527 Because they have legitimate questions. 00:03:52.610 --> 00:03:55.607 Like, is this product being used to take away my right 00:03:55.690 --> 00:04:00.197 to go have a hot dog with a coworker I'm flirting with while being married? 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:04.077 Which honestly, you know, I think is the God-given right of people in this country? 00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:07.957 Can I take the day off and tell my employer I'm working when I'm not? 00:04:08.040 --> 00:04:10.497 Great. Maybe you shouldn't do that, but I support that. 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:13.547 Can I have views that are deviant from my bosses? 00:04:13.630 --> 00:04:15.877 Like, I mean, actually we have an environment here 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:18.967 where you can have any view you want, but let's just say somebody here hates 00:04:19.050 --> 00:04:21.097 what we're doing, ICE hates what we're doing in Israel 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:24.177 and hates what we're doing in Ukraine and doesn't somehow want to express it. 00:04:24.260 --> 00:04:26.437 They're would be incorrect to think they'll be penalized for it. 00:04:26.520 --> 00:04:30.017 But they think that, can I have that view at home in my house? 00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:32.857 What I would tell those people is listen carefully 00:04:32.940 --> 00:04:35.187 to the people who are saying we're doing surveillance. 00:04:35.270 --> 00:04:38.197 Listen to every word they say, write those words down. 00:04:38.280 --> 00:04:42.947 Spend 10 minutes looking at our product and you know, you decide. 00:04:43.030 --> 00:04:44.617 - Zoom out beyond Palantir 00:04:44.700 --> 00:04:48.287 and society, how worried are you about a surveillance state? 00:04:48.370 --> 00:04:52.127 Our primary worry should be, are our enemies so scared 00:04:52.210 --> 00:04:54.247 of us that they do not fight with us? 00:04:54.330 --> 00:04:57.667 - And who's our enemies? - Well, you know, I mean you pick your like, you know, 00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:00.467 the usual, we do not sell to China, we don't sell to Iran, 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:03.637 we don't sell to Russia. I actually would say adversaries not enemies 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.977 because I think once you get an enemy thing, it's a way of being dysfunctional. 00:05:07.060 --> 00:05:10.477 But like, are people scared of us? 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:13.397 Do terrorists plan terrorist attacks against us? 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:16.897 Or do they feel that they shouldn't because they're so scared? 00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:19.527 And by the way, that's the single best way to ever stop wars. 00:05:19.610 --> 00:05:25.197 The primary evidence for a surveillance state in the west is not government 00:05:25.280 --> 00:05:31.627 on consumer, it's company knowing every single action you have at all times. 00:05:31.710 --> 00:05:36.417 And we walk around with surveillance devices called electronic devices, 00:05:36.500 --> 00:05:39.927 and every single thing we do is monitored. 00:05:40.010 --> 00:05:42.967 Not, I think primarily so people can eviscerate 00:05:43.050 --> 00:05:45.307 or have an understanding of, am I shagging 00:05:45.390 --> 00:05:49.807 with too many people on the side and lying to my partner or lying by omission? 00:05:49.890 --> 00:05:52.647 Because they wanna sell us like cornflakes. 00:05:52.730 --> 00:05:54.690 That's the reality of life in the West. 00:05:55.060 --> 00:05:59.437 Can the government surveil your patterns of behavior at like, it's called pattern 00:05:59.520 --> 00:06:02.107 of life surveillance, which is a very, very, very important way 00:06:02.190 --> 00:06:04.947 of finding terrorists and in general, criminals. 00:06:05.030 --> 00:06:06.537 'Cause like everyone has a pattern. 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:07.737 - So you're saying it's worth it? 00:06:07.820 --> 00:06:10.537 - No, I'm not saying that. Here the problem is, 00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:13.537 these things require very, very precise tools. 00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:16.917 Yes, we are monetizing the fact that these decisions are difficult. 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.087 We're monetizing the fact that they're hard, 00:06:19.170 --> 00:06:21.620 we're monetizing the fact that they're important. 00:06:58.580 --> 00:07:02.167 - So you talked about how AI can increase prosperity 00:07:02.250 --> 00:07:05.177 both at the individual and of the country. 00:07:05.260 --> 00:07:09.597 Go dark with me for a second. You are a truth teller. 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.347 What should we worry about AI? 00:07:11.430 --> 00:07:12.640 How can it go wrong? 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:14.937 - Well, it could go wrong in lots of ways, 00:07:15.020 --> 00:07:17.807 but again, there I would say we need to absorb a lot 00:07:17.890 --> 00:07:19.477 of risk there because it's either gonna go right 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:23.277 and wrong for us or it's gonna go right and wrong you know, for China, 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.277 which we're in a competition, at the very least, we're in high competition. 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:27.197 - What about for the individual? 00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:29.737 No decision is without risk. 00:07:29.820 --> 00:07:33.157 And the risk we have to absorb here is going long on this 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:37.287 because like we're not doing this in a vacuum. 00:07:37.370 --> 00:07:41.457 We are going to be the dominant player, or China's gonna be the dominant player 00:07:41.540 --> 00:07:44.257 and there will just be very different rules depending on who wins. 00:07:44.340 --> 00:07:47.677 And we cannot rely on anyone else to do this in our network 00:07:47.760 --> 00:07:51.597 of allies because Europe has given up on technology and actually, the Arab 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.847 and non-Arab Middle East are closest to what you see at AI adoption. 00:07:54.930 --> 00:07:57.557 But de facto, we are by far the leader of our coalition. 00:07:57.640 --> 00:07:59.937 So it's like when people are worried about surveillance, 00:08:00.020 --> 00:08:04.527 it's not, honestly, of course, there are huge dangers there, 00:08:04.610 --> 00:08:10.697 but you know, it's like you will have far fewer rights if America's not in the lead. 00:08:10.780 --> 00:08:12.577 And I'll tell you the other risk that again, 00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:14.997 I think it doesn't get enough attention. 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:19.877 Again, what portion of the wealth creation is available to the average person? 00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:21.917 I'm pretty sure we're in our infancy. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.710 So in a world where Palantir could grow 10x, 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:29.797 what does that mean to the person on the factory floor? 00:08:29.880 --> 00:08:32.887 Are how much are their real wages gonna grow? 00:08:32.970 --> 00:08:38.187 Like, and if the answer is, you know, 5% roughly at inflation, 00:08:38.270 --> 00:08:40.687 can you blame them for not being upset? 00:08:40.770 --> 00:08:45.237 And so like, I think the primary risk of AI is social instability. 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.990 Like the person- - In what form will that take? 00:08:48.860 --> 00:08:52.827 - Pretty crazy populous movements that obviously make no sense. 00:08:52.910 --> 00:08:56.037 Like, I mean, I don't know, like, you know, all we're gonna make... 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.037 The government is gonna run grocery stores 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.830 - Are you worried about violence, indolence? 00:09:01.870 --> 00:09:03.587 - Well, dysfunction and then violence. 00:09:03.670 --> 00:09:08.297 Like you talk to European leaders and they will literally look you in private 00:09:08.380 --> 00:09:10.967 and tell you negative GDP isn't a problem 00:09:11.050 --> 00:09:13.097 because the quality of our revenue's going up. 00:09:13.180 --> 00:09:15.767 They believe this, this is clearly wrong, it will not work. 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:17.677 It's gonna lead to violence. 00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:21.147 Indolence, it's gonna lead to everything you don't want. 00:09:21.230 --> 00:09:25.687 And okay, so then the American version is US builder, 00:09:25.770 --> 00:09:29.027 highly educated builder who's asking technical 00:09:29.110 --> 00:09:32.530 proximate questions are likely to do well. 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:37.157 What about everyone here? How well does your camera person do? 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:38.407 - Yeah, so that's a good question. 00:09:38.490 --> 00:09:41.667 So we've talked about who will benefit from this prosperity, 00:09:41.750 --> 00:09:44.537 but who, what occupations, what types 00:09:44.620 --> 00:09:47.130 of businesses should be freaking the hell out? 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.967 - Okay, let me give you the what you, again, 'cause I think the actual 00:09:51.050 --> 00:09:54.597 who should not be freaking out is pretty crazy to most people. 00:09:54.680 --> 00:09:59.677 The thing about the commodity nature of LLMs is it commodifies general knowledge. 00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:01.687 My advice to people around here is, 00:10:01.770 --> 00:10:03.727 you know, Yale, there's a couple schools you should go to. 00:10:03.810 --> 00:10:06.027 If you get into Yale's one, Stanford's one. 00:10:06.110 --> 00:10:09.647 There's some schools you maybe should go to, otherwise, go to the cheapest school 00:10:09.730 --> 00:10:11.157 and come to Palantir or just come here. 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:14.777 That's my honest advice. So to people like family members, others, ever, 00:10:14.860 --> 00:10:18.197 so I pick on Yale because it's a crazy strong, especially for humanities. 00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:21.077 Almost everyone I work with that writes is a Yale grad. 00:10:21.160 --> 00:10:22.997 So it's a very, very strong school. 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:26.997 But like if you are the kind of person that would've gone 00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:30.590 to Yale or kind of classically high IQ, 00:10:32.130 --> 00:10:38.097 and you have generalized knowledge, but it's not specific, you're effed. 00:10:38.180 --> 00:10:42.727 If on the other hand, you have specific domain knowledge, 00:10:42.810 --> 00:10:47.810 like how do I actually bend the metal of the hole on a ship? 00:10:47.900 --> 00:10:53.107 How do I actually write a script that allows me to target terrorists in pound? 00:10:53.190 --> 00:10:57.737 How do I impute the problem in this complicated device 00:10:57.820 --> 00:10:59.827 that's going wrong that otherwise would be fixed 00:10:59.910 --> 00:11:03.327 by a Japanese engineer while being a high school grad? 00:11:03.410 --> 00:11:07.247 How do I put the cement in a factory with such precision 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:11.047 that you can build a factory like it was built in Taiwan in America? 00:11:11.130 --> 00:11:17.547 How do I do anything with deep specific, particularly vocation, 00:11:17.630 --> 00:11:19.557 what's considered vocational training? 00:11:19.640 --> 00:11:23.637 Those people are going to make a lot more money 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:28.107 simply because you can turn it any way you want, 00:11:28.190 --> 00:11:31.437 but at the end of the day, within a relative rapid amount 00:11:31.520 --> 00:11:35.157 of time, you will get paid downstream of the value Grid. 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:39.077 - So an electrician is gonna be a lot better off than a lame Yale grad. 00:11:39.160 --> 00:11:42.947 - The Yale grad will have to learn something specific. 00:11:43.030 --> 00:11:45.417 - Domain expertise. - Domain expertise. 00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:49.880 - What dark forces are you worried about getting their hands on AI? 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.717 - There are a lot of dark forces and I just wanna keep repeating as like- 00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.887 - Are you more concerned about like? 00:11:55.970 --> 00:11:59.887 - No, I'm much more concerned that we fail in America and that we don't dominate 00:11:59.970 --> 00:12:04.177 and therefore there's like a lame, undriven discussion about human rights 00:12:04.260 --> 00:12:06.187 that obviously only serves people 00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:08.767 who like somehow wanna live in a world that doesn't work. 00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:12.227 Something that's always baffled me, you know, everyone in Silicon Valley, 00:12:12.310 --> 00:12:16.067 a lot of moguls are building bunkers. 00:12:16.150 --> 00:12:17.527 What do they know that we don't? 00:12:17.610 --> 00:12:19.817 What do they fear that we maybe should? 00:12:19.900 --> 00:12:21.737 I think they have the same fears you do. 00:12:21.820 --> 00:12:23.197 They just have more money. 00:12:23.280 --> 00:12:27.667 People who do well in Silicon Valley are more mathematically adept 00:12:27.750 --> 00:12:30.627 than they may realize 00:12:30.710 --> 00:12:35.710 or than other people and have an ability to operate. 00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:40.007 And so again, if you just take odds, you know, it's like, 00:12:40.090 --> 00:12:43.557 you know, it's no different. I bet you a lot of hedge funders have these, 00:12:43.640 --> 00:12:45.727 it's like, you're doing a regression. 00:12:45.810 --> 00:12:49.847 But like, you know, it's like I remember, I end up talking to political people 00:12:49.930 --> 00:12:52.397 and I was like, you know, it is like when you talk 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.277 to campaigns, they're like, we have a 25% chance of losing. 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.487 And then they're off drinking champagne 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:05.037 and anyone in tech is like, you have a 25% chance of nonrecoverable death. 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.577 So it's a different, I mean a lot of this is just mathematical. 00:13:07.660 --> 00:13:09.577 - Well, so while we're on that in Silicon Valley, 00:13:09.660 --> 00:13:12.877 they talk about the P doom, the probability 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.130 that super intelligent AI is gonna end us all. 00:13:17.090 --> 00:13:19.217 I mean- - Okay, you know what? 00:13:19.300 --> 00:13:23.137 I'm happy to talk about anything that like, I think - Do you have a P doom? 00:13:23.220 --> 00:13:27.597 - I worry much more about we lose the race. 00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:30.517 Like again, I'm very culturally specific in a way 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.357 that maybe, you know, not everyone is, I think the chance 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.987 of you of American survival goes, the chance of world survival goes up 00:13:38.070 --> 00:13:39.947 as America becomes stronger and more dominant. 00:13:40.030 --> 00:13:43.277 - But do you worry about AI outrunning any of us, Any state? 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.657 - Okay, but yeah, but I also worry about the ceiling falling. 00:13:45.740 --> 00:13:47.827 Like, I don't like, again, there's an odds question. 00:13:47.910 --> 00:13:51.707 My primary specialization is what can you build software 00:13:51.790 --> 00:13:55.667 that's going to make America's allies industry and military dominant. 00:13:55.750 --> 00:13:57.837 And I believe that if you do it the third, 00:13:57.920 --> 00:14:00.630 fourth derivative, a lot of these questions go away. 00:14:04.010 --> 00:14:08.677 Palantir’s beat the analysts estimates 21 quarters in a row 00:14:08.760 --> 00:14:14.727 and you just had a great forecast and yet your stock got hammered. 00:14:14.810 --> 00:14:16.357 What is the markets are missing? 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.817 - Honestly, hammered is a little, I think we're up something like 180. 00:14:19.900 --> 00:14:21.197 I don't know what we're up, I mean I don't track it. 00:14:21.280 --> 00:14:23.657 The market price has been more accurate than the analyst price. 00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:26.987 So clearly I would invert it. It's like, what does the market understand 00:14:27.070 --> 00:14:28.697 that the analysts can't understand? 00:14:28.780 --> 00:14:29.620 And I would say 00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:32.827 what the market has historically understood 00:14:32.910 --> 00:14:36.167 that many, not all analysts, the analysts wanna do 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:39.457 what I would call, I don't know, the journalists that you don't hire do. 00:14:39.540 --> 00:14:43.880 They've got a frame. That frame is the frame that was developed in the '50s. 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.387 - So thinking too small, too rigid, too narrow. 00:14:47.470 --> 00:14:49.347 - Yes. But then there's a thing. 00:14:49.430 --> 00:14:50.927 That frame does not allow you 00:14:51.010 --> 00:14:55.517 to disambiguate between weak, medium weak, strong and baller product. 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.397 Weak, medium, strong, baller culture. 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:04.907 Weak, medium, and to the extent and then- - And you're saying you're baller. 00:15:04.990 --> 00:15:07.027 - I mean that's what the market seems to be saying. 00:15:07.110 --> 00:15:08.577 I don't know, I'm just modest over here. 00:15:08.660 --> 00:15:11.287 And you say the analysts care about X. 00:15:11.370 --> 00:15:13.867 What I'm saying is way upstream of that, 00:15:13.950 --> 00:15:17.997 that are assumptions that they control that at the end 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.207 of the day, come down to who they like and don't like. 00:15:21.290 --> 00:15:22.837 - And you're saying they don't like you? 00:15:22.920 --> 00:15:24.297 - Well of course, they don't like me. 00:15:24.380 --> 00:15:26.047 You know why they didn't like me? 00:15:26.130 --> 00:15:27.927 Because I mean, it's not actually, not just in fairness, 00:15:28.010 --> 00:15:31.177 not the analysts, honestly. I actually in some ways aligned with analysts 00:15:31.260 --> 00:15:34.437 but it's like, here I am somebody who should be, you know, 00:15:34.520 --> 00:15:36.897 you know, like whatever should not be where I am. 00:15:36.980 --> 00:15:41.237 I'm having a lot of fun. But mostly, we have the most baller interesting company 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:43.397 on the planet. I'm not ashamed of that. 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.407 We're rolling out, we're defending Western values. 00:15:46.490 --> 00:15:48.527 We are completely meritocratic. 00:15:48.610 --> 00:15:53.620 I'm not the person that should be having this much fun. 00:15:54.080 --> 00:16:00.797 And that annoys many journalists, not all, it annoys many academics, almost all. 00:16:00.880 --> 00:16:05.797 It annoys all sorts of purveyors of dysfunction because they wanna sit again. 00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:08.717 I think the average, you know, Ivy League grad voting 00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:12.427 for this mayor is highly annoyed that their education is not that valuable. 00:16:12.510 --> 00:16:17.267 And the person down the street who knows how to drill for oil and gas who's moved 00:16:17.350 --> 00:16:19.437 to Texas has a more valuable profession. 00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:22.170 And I think that annoys the fuck out of these people. 00:16:25.780 --> 00:16:29.527 - When you talk about politics, you sound like a reluctant Trumper. 00:16:29.610 --> 00:16:29.657 you sound like a reluctant Trumper. 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:32.537 What would Democrats need to do to get you back? 00:16:32.620 --> 00:16:37.417 And what I've been telling Democrats and not just Democrats, Democrats established, 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:39.497 shaped people in Europe where I get a lot of calls 00:16:39.580 --> 00:16:44.590 and all over the world is, first of all, 00:16:44.750 --> 00:16:48.427 the idea that somehow it's a God-given right of people 00:16:48.510 --> 00:16:51.597 of widely diversion cultures to come to our culture. 00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:54.097 And here, I mean America, but I've given this advice 00:16:54.180 --> 00:16:57.387 for the last 20 years is not only a name, 00:16:57.470 --> 00:17:00.517 it goes against actual empirical experience 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.517 and none of your voters want it. 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:04.777 And if you enforce, if you make this 00:17:04.860 --> 00:17:06.947 into some kind of bigotry, like we have to take everyone 00:17:07.030 --> 00:17:11.777 or we're a bigot, they're gonna vote for people who actually are bigoted or not. 00:17:11.860 --> 00:17:15.157 and then I would say to my democratic friends also, 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:17.290 of which I still have, I hope many, 00:17:18.830 --> 00:17:23.627 you have to grow a spine because a lot of these people 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:26.007 actually agree with me in private. 00:17:26.090 --> 00:17:28.837 Do you know the percentage of democrats who know 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.137 that nothing Mamdani is saying can ever work is very high. 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:33.427 - Just elected mayor here in New York. 00:17:33.510 --> 00:17:35.807 - Yeah. Great. And like if you talk to them in private, they'll be like, 00:17:35.890 --> 00:17:36.807 "Yeah, that can never work." 00:17:36.890 --> 00:17:39.690 Okay, sorry, you asked a question. I give you an answer. 00:17:41.100 --> 00:17:43.817 We're in a world where you have to start speaking up. 00:17:43.900 --> 00:17:48.397 If someone is saying something you know, can never work and let's just take, 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.817 there's a reason in this election why the people who voted 00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:54.110 for him are disproportionately 00:17:55.410 --> 00:17:58.957 are not actually aligned with underclass voters. 00:17:59.040 --> 00:18:00.577 Underclass voters would've voted for corn. 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:02.827 - So who do you think should be speaking up who's not? 00:18:02.910 --> 00:18:04.667 - Everybody who agrees with me in private, 00:18:04.750 --> 00:18:08.417 I run around, I get yelled at all the time for Ukraine, 00:18:08.500 --> 00:18:12.467 ICE, Israel, and generally telling the truth, which I would call, okay. 00:18:12.550 --> 00:18:14.467 Great, I get yelled at in private, in public, 00:18:14.550 --> 00:18:16.517 in family settings here and in business section. 00:18:16.600 --> 00:18:18.177 And I've had customers, they had, I don't wanna work 00:18:18.260 --> 00:18:20.227 with you because any of those views are all of the above. 00:18:20.310 --> 00:18:22.187 I'll tell you what, I also have a lot of. 00:18:22.270 --> 00:18:23.597 A lot of people are like, "Yeah, I agree with you. 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:25.267 I just could never say that." 00:18:25.350 --> 00:18:27.777 Like, especially in Europe, what I get is there's- 00:18:27.860 --> 00:18:29.987 - So you're saying more people should be more candid? 00:18:30.070 --> 00:18:33.527 - No, I'm saying and I'm just saying hey, no, I'm saying if you're not candid, 00:18:33.610 --> 00:18:35.117 you're gonna get these results. 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:39.370 How worried are you about the Nick Fuentes wing of Maga? 00:18:44.290 --> 00:18:47.837 - Well, first of all, I feel like I'm much more qualified 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:52.257 to critique what has been my own party. 00:18:52.340 --> 00:18:56.800 Although I've historically, Palantir's been the most anti-woke company. 00:19:00.060 --> 00:19:01.187 And like one of the things, 00:19:01.270 --> 00:19:03.807 it's really crazy when people are like attacking us online. 00:19:03.890 --> 00:19:07.477 And like you say that now. We've been saying a lot of things 00:19:07.560 --> 00:19:09.937 that you would've gotten you fired 00:19:10.020 --> 00:19:13.817 or put out of business for 20 years, including meritocracy, 00:19:13.900 --> 00:19:18.280 borders used violence to not do NeoCon bullshit. 00:19:19.370 --> 00:19:22.240 For 20 years and doing, saying it when it wasn't popular. 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:28.670 I think almost all of these movements are downstream 00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:32.757 from the fact that the people who sign up for these things 00:19:32.840 --> 00:19:38.677 that are like obviously not sensible, do not believe they're gonna participate 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:42.017 in this society economically. - Well let's be specific. 00:19:42.100 --> 00:19:45.897 So the antisemitism is one of your signature issues. 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:48.647 - Well actually, honestly, again, that's how people frame it. 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:53.980 How about stupid discrimination of which antisemitism is a form? 00:19:56.280 --> 00:19:57.490 - Stipulate to that. 00:19:58.820 --> 00:20:03.457 Nick Fuentes is a part of the republican conservative movement 00:20:03.540 --> 00:20:05.410 that's getting increasing intention, 00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:09.037 has increasing intention, increasing voice. 00:20:09.120 --> 00:20:11.837 How concerned are you about that and what does that tell you? 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.467 - Well again, it's again, you always have to disambiguate concern 00:20:14.550 --> 00:20:18.637 and do you have a legitimate, like I have a legitimate, 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.177 just, I'll answer your question, 00:20:20.260 --> 00:20:23.760 but I have a completely legitimate, authentic voice 00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:29.357 in the progressive democratic movement because that's been my whole life. 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.937 And so I feel like when I'm screaming about that, 00:20:32.020 --> 00:20:34.270 they really should listen even if they don't. 00:20:35.110 --> 00:20:39.157 You know, I am probably just at this point an independent 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:43.997 who thinks admires what Trump has done in it on many things. 00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:48.167 And I think anybody who's not deranged would acknowledge 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:51.997 these things and sure would. You know, so I think I don't have the credibility 00:20:52.080 --> 00:20:55.837 to start throwing a hissy about what happens in the Republican party. 00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:00.427 And I'll also say both parties, and again, let me just go to the party 00:21:00.510 --> 00:21:02.047 where I have more credibility. 00:21:02.130 --> 00:21:08.477 Like the way in which the Democrats just completely neglect males. 00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:14.317 Like there is nothing wrong and it's admirable to be a somewhat 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:18.780 to high testosterone male. And you know, it's like, 00:21:19.820 --> 00:21:22.867 you have the general vibe in the Democratic party 00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:26.287 that it's like, there's something wrong. 00:21:26.370 --> 00:21:30.667 I don't know, like, yeah, there's some way in which, 00:21:30.750 --> 00:21:32.587 I don't find it very appealing as a dude. 00:21:32.670 --> 00:21:36.047 I don't think most dudes do. It's a huge problem. 00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:40.087 And you can't address it. My primary issue on political stuff 00:21:40.170 --> 00:21:43.637 is not exactly in being slightly unfair to your question. 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.847 I think the primary issue for America is do we have a closed border? 00:21:46.930 --> 00:21:48.847 I mean at this point, I'm kind of a single issue voter. 00:21:48.930 --> 00:21:51.057 It's like, is the border closed or is it open? 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:53.227 Like Europe is an unmitigated disaster 00:21:53.310 --> 00:21:57.567 because of like unfettered stupid migration - Of all the people you've met, 00:21:57.650 --> 00:21:58.987 who would make the best president? 00:21:59.070 --> 00:22:00.527 Who do you think should be the next president? 00:22:00.610 --> 00:22:07.117 The president that will legitimately incredibly say the borders staying closed 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.207 or there'll be common sense cultural standards used on top 00:22:10.290 --> 00:22:15.290 of just pure IQ and the president that can really, really 00:22:15.830 --> 00:22:19.627 credibly fight for workers. So like, sorry. 00:22:19.710 --> 00:22:21.717 - That sounds like the current vice president. 00:22:21.800 --> 00:22:24.967 - I'm just going, you asked a question, I'm giving you an answer. 00:22:25.050 --> 00:22:30.970 The way I would judge it. Well, the way I would judge it is who is the person 00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:37.230 who actually believes and will implement things that make 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:40.947 working class Americans healthier and wealthier? 00:22:41.030 --> 00:22:45.447 And yeah. - That sounds like vice president JD Vance raised in Appalachia. 00:22:45.530 --> 00:22:49.997 Do you like him as president? - You're asking lots of political questions 00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:53.827 and I obviously support a lot of what the president does. 00:22:53.910 --> 00:22:56.037 I'm just gonna say, you asked a question. 00:22:56.120 --> 00:22:59.297 I can answer and I'll tell you to go back to your other questions. 00:22:59.380 --> 00:23:03.587 The problem on the democratic side is if you're honest 00:23:03.670 --> 00:23:08.217 and private, it's now a party repping people 00:23:08.300 --> 00:23:12.520 with non-domain-specific knowledge who are kind of, 00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:16.397 and not the working class. - Is there someone you'd like to see 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:17.850 as the leader on that side? 00:23:18.730 --> 00:23:22.567 - Anyone who reps this? Like, it's like for me, it's the issues. 00:23:22.650 --> 00:23:24.987 Again, it's like, I know it's kind of all like, 00:23:25.070 --> 00:23:27.367 I don't think you have a politician has to connect 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:31.037 with the people, but I'm not a politician nor is it a job for me to be one. 00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:36.827 I connect with the two issues when I would say it's basically, what's gonna happen 00:23:36.910 --> 00:23:38.707 to the working class and is the border closed? 00:23:38.790 --> 00:23:40.750 Which is basically the same issue. 00:23:44.300 --> 00:23:48.847 So there was a biography of you just came out. 00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:53.017 You had a lot of cooperation on balance was very positive to you. 00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:55.517 You are worth 17 billion or 18 billion. 00:23:55.600 --> 00:24:00.190 But most people don't realize that you came from very little. 00:24:01.060 --> 00:24:04.947 You told me a story about a jewelry store in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. 00:24:05.030 --> 00:24:07.777 You grew up in the Philadelphia suburbs. 00:24:07.860 --> 00:24:10.570 There was a landlord there who owned a jewelry store. 00:24:11.620 --> 00:24:12.367 - Well, it's in the book. 00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:14.617 And honestly, there's so many stories I would not have told. 00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:18.077 Not because, you know, I don't know. 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:19.000 But any case, 00:24:22.840 --> 00:24:24.500 my mom was totally fucked. 00:24:26.090 --> 00:24:29.760 Someone helped her, I paid them back 00:24:30.970 --> 00:24:35.470 - And that person was a landlord, gave her and you a place to live? 00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:42.107 And they still own a jewelry store. 00:24:42.190 --> 00:24:45.520 And how did you? - I used to buy a lot of stuff from them. 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:52.657 - To this day? - Yeah. - And what is there for others to learn from that? 00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:54.827 - Very few people will help you. 00:24:54.910 --> 00:24:59.457 And it's like her, the helping my mom, 00:24:59.540 --> 00:25:02.547 Mr. Schneider kind of helped me. 00:25:02.630 --> 00:25:05.717 A bunch of people. In general, people don't help you, 00:25:05.800 --> 00:25:09.380 which is totally okay, but the ones that do are special. 00:25:10.170 --> 00:25:12.967 - And something the Palantir is doing is you have 00:25:13.050 --> 00:25:16.557 a fellowship now for high school students, 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.727 people without degrees, without credentials. 00:25:19.810 --> 00:25:23.357 You just tried the inaugural class, what did you learn from that? 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.150 And are you gonna do more of that? 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:29.907 - I learned there's a lot of very talented people 00:25:29.990 --> 00:25:33.157 who would be better off learning domain specific things 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:37.200 than being indoctrinated at quasi elite schools that don't value them. 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:41.960 I've learned and I hope that other people will copy this 00:25:43.170 --> 00:25:44.707 and we're gonna do more and more. 00:25:44.790 --> 00:25:48.427 It's good for the nation, it's great for Palantir. 00:25:48.510 --> 00:25:53.217 - And so you don't necessarily have to go to college to be successful. 00:25:53.300 --> 00:25:55.557 And it sounds like you're gonna invest more- - You know- 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:57.517 - In vocational training, high school training. 00:25:57.600 --> 00:25:59.517 - Well, yeah, we probably should do that too, 00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:01.517 but, you know, like first of all, we just kicked it off. 00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.017 We were the first company I think to do this. 00:26:03.100 --> 00:26:05.107 I think other people we've had actually nations. 00:26:05.190 --> 00:26:10.027 And (mumbles) thing is have a number of nations call us like at the national level 00:26:10.110 --> 00:26:12.197 and saying, "Hey, we wanna learn from this." 00:26:12.280 --> 00:26:14.237 Is it outside? - From the high school program? 00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:16.617 - Yeah, like, yeah. One of the more fascinating things is, 00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:20.497 I mean, I can't give details, but we have like a nation state saying, 00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:22.207 "Could you come over and teach us how to do this?" 00:26:22.290 --> 00:26:24.417 - And are you gonna do it? - Yeah, of course. 00:26:24.500 --> 00:26:25.667 - And what are you gonna teach them? 00:26:25.750 --> 00:26:28.837 Or what is the secret? - Well, it's, I mean, selection. 00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:31.677 How do you select, how do you train, how do you provide. 00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:34.637 Like what we're doing with them by the way, it's not indoctrination. 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.387 That's really interesting. People think we're just like, 00:26:36.470 --> 00:26:39.677 you come here and you learn there's only one way to do something ideologically, no. 00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:44.517 We're exposing them to a wide swath of kind of core ideas- 00:26:44.600 --> 00:26:47.317 - Because there's like a western sieve element to it. 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.197 - Yeah, but it's like western sieve, and then we have a lot of people actually 00:26:50.280 --> 00:26:51.817 who've built things coming in. 00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:55.277 So we've had a lot of ex-Palantirians, current Palantirians. 00:26:55.360 --> 00:26:58.197 I don't know, some of the people may not wanna be named like titans of industry. 00:26:58.280 --> 00:27:00.657 Like you'd be a perfect person, come in. 00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:02.207 What does it mean to be a journalist? 00:27:02.290 --> 00:27:03.957 What does it mean to man journalist? 00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:05.377 What does it mean to build a company? 00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:07.497 What are the assumptions? What have I learned? 00:27:07.580 --> 00:27:09.280 What does it mean to be selective? 00:27:10.550 --> 00:27:12.677 And then like what you won't hear, by the way, 00:27:12.760 --> 00:27:16.880 we have like very prominent establishment progressives. 00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:20.307 I would say one of the things 00:27:20.390 --> 00:27:22.767 that I'm pretty adamant about is I actually care less 00:27:22.850 --> 00:27:27.440 about ideology and more about is this person at the pinnacle of their success. 00:27:31.110 --> 00:27:34.447 So as we say goodbye here, you just turned 58, 00:27:34.530 --> 00:27:39.530 you look a lot less, you just put on this skiing gear. 00:27:40.530 --> 00:27:42.790 What is your latest longevity hack? 00:27:43.950 --> 00:27:49.627 - You have to do technical Norwegian style, cardiovascular training. 00:27:49.710 --> 00:27:51.797 Look that up. That's a longer story. 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:53.627 But the normal cardiovascular training 00:27:53.710 --> 00:27:56.297 is basically at a certain level, not so valuable. 00:27:56.380 --> 00:28:00.267 - And then just some framing, bracketing, as you would say for our viewers. 00:28:00.350 --> 00:28:04.727 So Norway has by far, the most medals in the Winter Olympics. 00:28:04.810 --> 00:28:07.057 And your theory is that it's because of this kind of training? 00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:09.437 - Well it's not just because of that, 00:28:09.520 --> 00:28:12.107 but I think if you did a regression of all humans 00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:17.200 with VO2s above 90, you would find 98% were Norwegian. 00:28:17.900 --> 00:28:21.407 And there's probably a genetic element, but the way that they train, 00:28:21.490 --> 00:28:23.787 which is basically being very careful about 00:28:23.870 --> 00:28:28.207 when you're in zone one and zone four and not being in zone two, 00:28:28.290 --> 00:28:30.377 and then you people should just look it up at that. 00:28:30.460 --> 00:28:35.837 And then what I've changed now is every second or third day I do pure strength. 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:39.757 And I used to do just that and kind of endurance strength. 00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:42.677 But I think that really helps. 00:28:42.760 --> 00:28:47.557 And then I do do like, I think something meditative, like I do Tai Chi every day. 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:49.517 I think those- - That's a Chinese martial art. 00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:51.437 How does that change your life? 00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:54.687 - Well, if you're entrepreneur doing something 00:28:54.770 --> 00:28:57.987 that like elicits cortisone, you want something 00:28:58.070 --> 00:29:01.277 that rebalances your like softer and harder energy 00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:03.947 and it does that and it helps with sleep a lot. 00:29:04.030 --> 00:29:07.497 - You told me that you looked at me and you said, "I've been sleeping more." 00:29:07.580 --> 00:29:11.960 How much do you sleep? - I mean, I'm primarily a creative human. 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:16.377 My best work is done if I get eight hours sleep. 00:29:16.460 --> 00:29:19.797 I can't always do that 'cause I'm traveling and, you know, it's hard, 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:22.677 but I really strive for eight hours quality sleep 00:29:22.760 --> 00:29:25.677 because what I notice is I just feel better, my brain works better. 00:29:25.760 --> 00:29:26.687 slept well or at least have slept at all, and yeah. 00:29:26.770 --> 00:29:29.267 - Alex Karp, thanks for mixing it up with the Axios Show. 00:29:29.350 --> 00:29:30.350 - Thank you.