1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:03,127 I know you're used to CEOs who don't answer your question. 2 00:00:03,210 --> 00:00:05,210 I'm gonna directly answer your question. 3 00:00:06,510 --> 00:00:09,137 I run around, I get yelled at all the time for Ukraine, 4 00:00:09,220 --> 00:00:12,850 ICE, Israel, and generally telling the truth, which I would call, okay. 5 00:00:13,890 --> 00:00:16,387 The chance of world survival goes up 6 00:00:16,470 --> 00:00:18,770 as America becomes stronger and more dominant. 7 00:00:22,730 --> 00:00:26,607 Alex Karp, thanks for having us into the Palantir lair in Manhattan. 8 00:00:26,690 --> 00:00:30,907 Welcome to The Axios Show. - You're CEO co-founder of Palantir, 9 00:00:30,990 --> 00:00:32,740 What the hell is Palantir? 10 00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:35,700 - Well, it depends who I'm talking to. 11 00:00:36,830 --> 00:00:40,207 Well, if I'm talking to you, we are growing the GDP of the US. 12 00:00:40,290 --> 00:00:44,877 We are the part of the GDP of the AI economy 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,837 where things are useful either on the battlefield or commercially. 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,677 And we're the only AI company with a real spread function 15 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:54,887 to the working class Americans. 16 00:00:54,970 --> 00:00:59,347 If it's the third or fourth conversation, it would be more like we went long 17 00:00:59,430 --> 00:01:03,187 on the reality that large language models were useful 18 00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:06,777 in their application, in our software, and are not gonna be as performing 19 00:01:06,860 --> 00:01:08,310 as people want outside of it. 20 00:01:11,990 --> 00:01:14,117 You talk about a single pane of glass, right? 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,997 That connects AI, connects data, connects analytics. 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,827 Let's give viewers an example. 23 00:01:20,910 --> 00:01:23,167 I'm a commander in the battlefield. 24 00:01:23,250 --> 00:01:27,507 What can Palantir tell me about my assets? 25 00:01:27,590 --> 00:01:29,967 - Well, if you're a commander in the battlefield 26 00:01:30,050 --> 00:01:33,467 for the first time, you have access to all your assets. 27 00:01:33,550 --> 00:01:37,477 When I say all, I mean also assets of foreign countries you work with 28 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,470 that are sharing a subset of the data. 29 00:01:40,770 --> 00:01:44,267 So that you- - So I'm looking at this pane of glass and what does it show me? 30 00:01:44,350 --> 00:01:46,817 - Well, it probably at this point is showing, again, 31 00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:48,647 it depends what you're doing, but it's probably showing, 32 00:01:48,730 --> 00:01:51,777 if you're say, doing a complex operation, it's showing you 33 00:01:51,860 --> 00:01:53,987 where the plane should fly, where the troops should be, 34 00:01:54,070 --> 00:01:56,447 where the muscles should go, where they shouldn't go. 35 00:01:56,530 --> 00:02:01,327 And again, it's doing this off of datasets that were not available to you last year. 36 00:02:01,410 --> 00:02:04,837 It's also be able to, you know, predict predict where you should put your assets. 37 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,960 It can and will soon be able to pick up 38 00:02:09,090 --> 00:02:11,177 what kind of missiles do you put on, what kind of targets? 39 00:02:11,260 --> 00:02:14,927 So do you put your really expensive missiles on your really expensive targets? 40 00:02:15,010 --> 00:02:16,387 It will at some point, and again, 41 00:02:16,470 --> 00:02:18,637 this is one of the most important things that's overlooked. 42 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,307 Be able to totally orchestrate the supply chain. 43 00:02:20,390 --> 00:02:21,097 Be able to totally orchestrate the supply chain. 44 00:02:21,180 --> 00:02:22,897 So what are you building? How are you building it? 45 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:25,687 Where is it be building and what companies are doing it? 46 00:02:25,770 --> 00:02:28,477 Understanding the cost for those companies, which is currently something 47 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,197 that's very, very hard for those companies, so... 48 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,357 There's the kind of sexy, violent part of war, which obviously in this case, 49 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,077 would mean honestly for this commander, 50 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,617 what it basically will mean is you'll be ahead 51 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:40,907 of your adversary, you'll be able to predict their actions. 52 00:02:40,990 --> 00:02:45,037 You'll be able to put the best effectors on the most important targets 53 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,457 and the cheaper ones on less important targets. 54 00:02:48,540 --> 00:02:52,667 By the way, honestly, the most important thing Palantir does is prevent war. 55 00:02:52,750 --> 00:02:56,680 - So that sounds very useful. Why are people so suspicious of you? 56 00:02:58,090 --> 00:03:02,347 - Well, I actually would push back on that, which people are suspicious. 57 00:03:02,430 --> 00:03:04,227 So like, you know, it's really interesting. 58 00:03:04,310 --> 00:03:06,397 I was watching someone on TV who was like, I talk 59 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,227 to special operators, I talk to military people, they love Palantir. 60 00:03:10,310 --> 00:03:13,567 Okay? So I'm just gonna say for the sake of being somewhat 61 00:03:13,650 --> 00:03:18,617 of a jerk, the people I care about, the people on the front line in factories, 62 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:21,787 the people driving trucks, the people doing things, 63 00:03:21,870 --> 00:03:24,577 the people who have used our products, the war fighters, 64 00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:26,627 how did we get our business off the ground? 65 00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:29,457 War fighters who are sacrificing their lives 66 00:03:29,540 --> 00:03:30,957 went to generals and said, "I don't care 67 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,917 what stars you have, I'm coming home alive." 68 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,877 You know, a lot of those people are suspicious 69 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,547 of us now try to take the product out of their hands. 70 00:03:37,630 --> 00:03:41,517 Almost all of our clients, meaning people who've bought our product started off 71 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,687 as Palantir skeptics. And I've gone into tens of thousands of meetings 72 00:03:46,770 --> 00:03:48,767 now currently, when I meet the Palantir skeptic. 73 00:03:48,850 --> 00:03:50,647 I'm like, "That's the person who's gonna buy." 74 00:03:50,730 --> 00:03:52,527 Because they have legitimate questions. 75 00:03:52,610 --> 00:03:55,607 Like, is this product being used to take away my right 76 00:03:55,690 --> 00:04:00,197 to go have a hot dog with a coworker I'm flirting with while being married? 77 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,077 Which honestly, you know, I think is the God-given right of people in this country? 78 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,957 Can I take the day off and tell my employer I'm working when I'm not? 79 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,497 Great. Maybe you shouldn't do that, but I support that. 80 00:04:10,580 --> 00:04:13,547 Can I have views that are deviant from my bosses? 81 00:04:13,630 --> 00:04:15,877 Like, I mean, actually we have an environment here 82 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,967 where you can have any view you want, but let's just say somebody here hates 83 00:04:19,050 --> 00:04:21,097 what we're doing, ICE hates what we're doing in Israel 84 00:04:21,180 --> 00:04:24,177 and hates what we're doing in Ukraine and doesn't somehow want to express it. 85 00:04:24,260 --> 00:04:26,437 They're would be incorrect to think they'll be penalized for it. 86 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,017 But they think that, can I have that view at home in my house? 87 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:32,857 What I would tell those people is listen carefully 88 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:35,187 to the people who are saying we're doing surveillance. 89 00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:38,197 Listen to every word they say, write those words down. 90 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:42,947 Spend 10 minutes looking at our product and you know, you decide. 91 00:04:43,030 --> 00:04:44,617 - Zoom out beyond Palantir 92 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:48,287 and society, how worried are you about a surveillance state? 93 00:04:48,370 --> 00:04:52,127 Our primary worry should be, are our enemies so scared 94 00:04:52,210 --> 00:04:54,247 of us that they do not fight with us? 95 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:57,667 - And who's our enemies? - Well, you know, I mean you pick your like, you know, 96 00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:00,467 the usual, we do not sell to China, we don't sell to Iran, 97 00:05:00,550 --> 00:05:03,637 we don't sell to Russia. I actually would say adversaries not enemies 98 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,977 because I think once you get an enemy thing, it's a way of being dysfunctional. 99 00:05:07,060 --> 00:05:10,477 But like, are people scared of us? 100 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,397 Do terrorists plan terrorist attacks against us? 101 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,897 Or do they feel that they shouldn't because they're so scared? 102 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:19,527 And by the way, that's the single best way to ever stop wars. 103 00:05:19,610 --> 00:05:25,197 The primary evidence for a surveillance state in the west is not government 104 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:31,627 on consumer, it's company knowing every single action you have at all times. 105 00:05:31,710 --> 00:05:36,417 And we walk around with surveillance devices called electronic devices, 106 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:39,927 and every single thing we do is monitored. 107 00:05:40,010 --> 00:05:42,967 Not, I think primarily so people can eviscerate 108 00:05:43,050 --> 00:05:45,307 or have an understanding of, am I shagging 109 00:05:45,390 --> 00:05:49,807 with too many people on the side and lying to my partner or lying by omission? 110 00:05:49,890 --> 00:05:52,647 Because they wanna sell us like cornflakes. 111 00:05:52,730 --> 00:05:54,690 That's the reality of life in the West. 112 00:05:55,060 --> 00:05:59,437 Can the government surveil your patterns of behavior at like, it's called pattern 113 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,107 of life surveillance, which is a very, very, very important way 114 00:06:02,190 --> 00:06:04,947 of finding terrorists and in general, criminals. 115 00:06:05,030 --> 00:06:06,537 'Cause like everyone has a pattern. 116 00:06:06,620 --> 00:06:07,737 - So you're saying it's worth it? 117 00:06:07,820 --> 00:06:10,537 - No, I'm not saying that. Here the problem is, 118 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:13,537 these things require very, very precise tools. 119 00:06:13,620 --> 00:06:16,917 Yes, we are monetizing the fact that these decisions are difficult. 120 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,087 We're monetizing the fact that they're hard, 121 00:06:19,170 --> 00:06:21,620 we're monetizing the fact that they're important. 122 00:06:58,580 --> 00:07:02,167 - So you talked about how AI can increase prosperity 123 00:07:02,250 --> 00:07:05,177 both at the individual and of the country. 124 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:09,597 Go dark with me for a second. You are a truth teller. 125 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,347 What should we worry about AI? 126 00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:12,640 How can it go wrong? 127 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:14,937 - Well, it could go wrong in lots of ways, 128 00:07:15,020 --> 00:07:17,807 but again, there I would say we need to absorb a lot 129 00:07:17,890 --> 00:07:19,477 of risk there because it's either gonna go right 130 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,277 and wrong for us or it's gonna go right and wrong you know, for China, 131 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,277 which we're in a competition, at the very least, we're in high competition. 132 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,197 - What about for the individual? 133 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,737 No decision is without risk. 134 00:07:29,820 --> 00:07:33,157 And the risk we have to absorb here is going long on this 135 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,287 because like we're not doing this in a vacuum. 136 00:07:37,370 --> 00:07:41,457 We are going to be the dominant player, or China's gonna be the dominant player 137 00:07:41,540 --> 00:07:44,257 and there will just be very different rules depending on who wins. 138 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:47,677 And we cannot rely on anyone else to do this in our network 139 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,597 of allies because Europe has given up on technology and actually, the Arab 140 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,847 and non-Arab Middle East are closest to what you see at AI adoption. 141 00:07:54,930 --> 00:07:57,557 But de facto, we are by far the leader of our coalition. 142 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,937 So it's like when people are worried about surveillance, 143 00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:04,527 it's not, honestly, of course, there are huge dangers there, 144 00:08:04,610 --> 00:08:10,697 but you know, it's like you will have far fewer rights if America's not in the lead. 145 00:08:10,780 --> 00:08:12,577 And I'll tell you the other risk that again, 146 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:14,997 I think it doesn't get enough attention. 147 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,877 Again, what portion of the wealth creation is available to the average person? 148 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,917 I'm pretty sure we're in our infancy. 149 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,710 So in a world where Palantir could grow 10x, 150 00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:29,797 what does that mean to the person on the factory floor? 151 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,887 Are how much are their real wages gonna grow? 152 00:08:32,970 --> 00:08:38,187 Like, and if the answer is, you know, 5% roughly at inflation, 153 00:08:38,270 --> 00:08:40,687 can you blame them for not being upset? 154 00:08:40,770 --> 00:08:45,237 And so like, I think the primary risk of AI is social instability. 155 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,990 Like the person- - In what form will that take? 156 00:08:48,860 --> 00:08:52,827 - Pretty crazy populous movements that obviously make no sense. 157 00:08:52,910 --> 00:08:56,037 Like, I mean, I don't know, like, you know, all we're gonna make... 158 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,037 The government is gonna run grocery stores 159 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,830 - Are you worried about violence, indolence? 160 00:09:01,870 --> 00:09:03,587 - Well, dysfunction and then violence. 161 00:09:03,670 --> 00:09:08,297 Like you talk to European leaders and they will literally look you in private 162 00:09:08,380 --> 00:09:10,967 and tell you negative GDP isn't a problem 163 00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:13,097 because the quality of our revenue's going up. 164 00:09:13,180 --> 00:09:15,767 They believe this, this is clearly wrong, it will not work. 165 00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:17,677 It's gonna lead to violence. 166 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,147 Indolence, it's gonna lead to everything you don't want. 167 00:09:21,230 --> 00:09:25,687 And okay, so then the American version is US builder, 168 00:09:25,770 --> 00:09:29,027 highly educated builder who's asking technical 169 00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:32,530 proximate questions are likely to do well. 170 00:09:33,820 --> 00:09:37,157 What about everyone here? How well does your camera person do? 171 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,407 - Yeah, so that's a good question. 172 00:09:38,490 --> 00:09:41,667 So we've talked about who will benefit from this prosperity, 173 00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:44,537 but who, what occupations, what types 174 00:09:44,620 --> 00:09:47,130 of businesses should be freaking the hell out? 175 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,967 - Okay, let me give you the what you, again, 'cause I think the actual 176 00:09:51,050 --> 00:09:54,597 who should not be freaking out is pretty crazy to most people. 177 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:59,677 The thing about the commodity nature of LLMs is it commodifies general knowledge. 178 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,687 My advice to people around here is, 179 00:10:01,770 --> 00:10:03,727 you know, Yale, there's a couple schools you should go to. 180 00:10:03,810 --> 00:10:06,027 If you get into Yale's one, Stanford's one. 181 00:10:06,110 --> 00:10:09,647 There's some schools you maybe should go to, otherwise, go to the cheapest school 182 00:10:09,730 --> 00:10:11,157 and come to Palantir or just come here. 183 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,777 That's my honest advice. So to people like family members, others, ever, 184 00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:18,197 so I pick on Yale because it's a crazy strong, especially for humanities. 185 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,077 Almost everyone I work with that writes is a Yale grad. 186 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,997 So it's a very, very strong school. 187 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,997 But like if you are the kind of person that would've gone 188 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,590 to Yale or kind of classically high IQ, 189 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:38,097 and you have generalized knowledge, but it's not specific, you're effed. 190 00:10:38,180 --> 00:10:42,727 If on the other hand, you have specific domain knowledge, 191 00:10:42,810 --> 00:10:47,810 like how do I actually bend the metal of the hole on a ship? 192 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:53,107 How do I actually write a script that allows me to target terrorists in pound? 193 00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:57,737 How do I impute the problem in this complicated device 194 00:10:57,820 --> 00:10:59,827 that's going wrong that otherwise would be fixed 195 00:10:59,910 --> 00:11:03,327 by a Japanese engineer while being a high school grad? 196 00:11:03,410 --> 00:11:07,247 How do I put the cement in a factory with such precision 197 00:11:07,330 --> 00:11:11,047 that you can build a factory like it was built in Taiwan in America? 198 00:11:11,130 --> 00:11:17,547 How do I do anything with deep specific, particularly vocation, 199 00:11:17,630 --> 00:11:19,557 what's considered vocational training? 200 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,637 Those people are going to make a lot more money 201 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,107 simply because you can turn it any way you want, 202 00:11:28,190 --> 00:11:31,437 but at the end of the day, within a relative rapid amount 203 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,157 of time, you will get paid downstream of the value Grid. 204 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,077 - So an electrician is gonna be a lot better off than a lame Yale grad. 205 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,947 - The Yale grad will have to learn something specific. 206 00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:45,417 - Domain expertise. - Domain expertise. 207 00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:49,880 - What dark forces are you worried about getting their hands on AI? 208 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,717 - There are a lot of dark forces and I just wanna keep repeating as like- 209 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:55,887 - Are you more concerned about like? 210 00:11:55,970 --> 00:11:59,887 - No, I'm much more concerned that we fail in America and that we don't dominate 211 00:11:59,970 --> 00:12:04,177 and therefore there's like a lame, undriven discussion about human rights 212 00:12:04,260 --> 00:12:06,187 that obviously only serves people 213 00:12:06,270 --> 00:12:08,767 who like somehow wanna live in a world that doesn't work. 214 00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:12,227 Something that's always baffled me, you know, everyone in Silicon Valley, 215 00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:16,067 a lot of moguls are building bunkers. 216 00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:17,527 What do they know that we don't? 217 00:12:17,610 --> 00:12:19,817 What do they fear that we maybe should? 218 00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:21,737 I think they have the same fears you do. 219 00:12:21,820 --> 00:12:23,197 They just have more money. 220 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,667 People who do well in Silicon Valley are more mathematically adept 221 00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:30,627 than they may realize 222 00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:35,710 or than other people and have an ability to operate. 223 00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:40,007 And so again, if you just take odds, you know, it's like, 224 00:12:40,090 --> 00:12:43,557 you know, it's no different. I bet you a lot of hedge funders have these, 225 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,727 it's like, you're doing a regression. 226 00:12:45,810 --> 00:12:49,847 But like, you know, it's like I remember, I end up talking to political people 227 00:12:49,930 --> 00:12:52,397 and I was like, you know, it is like when you talk 228 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,277 to campaigns, they're like, we have a 25% chance of losing. 229 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,487 And then they're off drinking champagne 230 00:12:58,570 --> 00:13:05,037 and anyone in tech is like, you have a 25% chance of nonrecoverable death. 231 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,577 So it's a different, I mean a lot of this is just mathematical. 232 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:09,577 - Well, so while we're on that in Silicon Valley, 233 00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:12,877 they talk about the P doom, the probability 234 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,130 that super intelligent AI is gonna end us all. 235 00:13:17,090 --> 00:13:19,217 I mean- - Okay, you know what? 236 00:13:19,300 --> 00:13:23,137 I'm happy to talk about anything that like, I think - Do you have a P doom? 237 00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:27,597 - I worry much more about we lose the race. 238 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,517 Like again, I'm very culturally specific in a way 239 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,357 that maybe, you know, not everyone is, I think the chance 240 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,987 of you of American survival goes, the chance of world survival goes up 241 00:13:38,070 --> 00:13:39,947 as America becomes stronger and more dominant. 242 00:13:40,030 --> 00:13:43,277 - But do you worry about AI outrunning any of us, Any state? 243 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,657 - Okay, but yeah, but I also worry about the ceiling falling. 244 00:13:45,740 --> 00:13:47,827 Like, I don't like, again, there's an odds question. 245 00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:51,707 My primary specialization is what can you build software 246 00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:55,667 that's going to make America's allies industry and military dominant. 247 00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:57,837 And I believe that if you do it the third, 248 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,630 fourth derivative, a lot of these questions go away. 249 00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:08,677 Palantir’s beat the analysts estimates 21 quarters in a row 250 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:14,727 and you just had a great forecast and yet your stock got hammered. 251 00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:16,357 What is the markets are missing? 252 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,817 - Honestly, hammered is a little, I think we're up something like 180. 253 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:21,197 I don't know what we're up, I mean I don't track it. 254 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,657 The market price has been more accurate than the analyst price. 255 00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:26,987 So clearly I would invert it. It's like, what does the market understand 256 00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:28,697 that the analysts can't understand? 257 00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:29,620 And I would say 258 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:32,827 what the market has historically understood 259 00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:36,167 that many, not all analysts, the analysts wanna do 260 00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:39,457 what I would call, I don't know, the journalists that you don't hire do. 261 00:14:39,540 --> 00:14:43,880 They've got a frame. That frame is the frame that was developed in the '50s. 262 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,387 - So thinking too small, too rigid, too narrow. 263 00:14:47,470 --> 00:14:49,347 - Yes. But then there's a thing. 264 00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:50,927 That frame does not allow you 265 00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:55,517 to disambiguate between weak, medium weak, strong and baller product. 266 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,397 Weak, medium, strong, baller culture. 267 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,907 Weak, medium, and to the extent and then- - And you're saying you're baller. 268 00:15:04,990 --> 00:15:07,027 - I mean that's what the market seems to be saying. 269 00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:08,577 I don't know, I'm just modest over here. 270 00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:11,287 And you say the analysts care about X. 271 00:15:11,370 --> 00:15:13,867 What I'm saying is way upstream of that, 272 00:15:13,950 --> 00:15:17,997 that are assumptions that they control that at the end 273 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,207 of the day, come down to who they like and don't like. 274 00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:22,837 - And you're saying they don't like you? 275 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,297 - Well of course, they don't like me. 276 00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:26,047 You know why they didn't like me? 277 00:15:26,130 --> 00:15:27,927 Because I mean, it's not actually, not just in fairness, 278 00:15:28,010 --> 00:15:31,177 not the analysts, honestly. I actually in some ways aligned with analysts 279 00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:34,437 but it's like, here I am somebody who should be, you know, 280 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,897 you know, like whatever should not be where I am. 281 00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:41,237 I'm having a lot of fun. But mostly, we have the most baller interesting company 282 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,397 on the planet. I'm not ashamed of that. 283 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,407 We're rolling out, we're defending Western values. 284 00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:48,527 We are completely meritocratic. 285 00:15:48,610 --> 00:15:53,620 I'm not the person that should be having this much fun. 286 00:15:54,080 --> 00:16:00,797 And that annoys many journalists, not all, it annoys many academics, almost all. 287 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,797 It annoys all sorts of purveyors of dysfunction because they wanna sit again. 288 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,717 I think the average, you know, Ivy League grad voting 289 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,427 for this mayor is highly annoyed that their education is not that valuable. 290 00:16:12,510 --> 00:16:17,267 And the person down the street who knows how to drill for oil and gas who's moved 291 00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:19,437 to Texas has a more valuable profession. 292 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,170 And I think that annoys the fuck out of these people. 293 00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:29,527 - When you talk about politics, you sound like a reluctant Trumper. 294 00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:29,657 you sound like a reluctant Trumper. 295 00:16:29,740 --> 00:16:32,537 What would Democrats need to do to get you back? 296 00:16:32,620 --> 00:16:37,417 And what I've been telling Democrats and not just Democrats, Democrats established, 297 00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:39,497 shaped people in Europe where I get a lot of calls 298 00:16:39,580 --> 00:16:44,590 and all over the world is, first of all, 299 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:48,427 the idea that somehow it's a God-given right of people 300 00:16:48,510 --> 00:16:51,597 of widely diversion cultures to come to our culture. 301 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,097 And here, I mean America, but I've given this advice 302 00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:57,387 for the last 20 years is not only a name, 303 00:16:57,470 --> 00:17:00,517 it goes against actual empirical experience 304 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,517 and none of your voters want it. 305 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,777 And if you enforce, if you make this 306 00:17:04,860 --> 00:17:06,947 into some kind of bigotry, like we have to take everyone 307 00:17:07,030 --> 00:17:11,777 or we're a bigot, they're gonna vote for people who actually are bigoted or not. 308 00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:15,157 and then I would say to my democratic friends also, 309 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,290 of which I still have, I hope many, 310 00:17:18,830 --> 00:17:23,627 you have to grow a spine because a lot of these people 311 00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:26,007 actually agree with me in private. 312 00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:28,837 Do you know the percentage of democrats who know 313 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,137 that nothing Mamdani is saying can ever work is very high. 314 00:17:32,220 --> 00:17:33,427 - Just elected mayor here in New York. 315 00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:35,807 - Yeah. Great. And like if you talk to them in private, they'll be like, 316 00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:36,807 "Yeah, that can never work." 317 00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:39,690 Okay, sorry, you asked a question. I give you an answer. 318 00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,817 We're in a world where you have to start speaking up. 319 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:48,397 If someone is saying something you know, can never work and let's just take, 320 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,817 there's a reason in this election why the people who voted 321 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:54,110 for him are disproportionately 322 00:17:55,410 --> 00:17:58,957 are not actually aligned with underclass voters. 323 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:00,577 Underclass voters would've voted for corn. 324 00:18:00,660 --> 00:18:02,827 - So who do you think should be speaking up who's not? 325 00:18:02,910 --> 00:18:04,667 - Everybody who agrees with me in private, 326 00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:08,417 I run around, I get yelled at all the time for Ukraine, 327 00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:12,467 ICE, Israel, and generally telling the truth, which I would call, okay. 328 00:18:12,550 --> 00:18:14,467 Great, I get yelled at in private, in public, 329 00:18:14,550 --> 00:18:16,517 in family settings here and in business section. 330 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,177 And I've had customers, they had, I don't wanna work 331 00:18:18,260 --> 00:18:20,227 with you because any of those views are all of the above. 332 00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:22,187 I'll tell you what, I also have a lot of. 333 00:18:22,270 --> 00:18:23,597 A lot of people are like, "Yeah, I agree with you. 334 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,267 I just could never say that." 335 00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:27,777 Like, especially in Europe, what I get is there's- 336 00:18:27,860 --> 00:18:29,987 - So you're saying more people should be more candid? 337 00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:33,527 - No, I'm saying and I'm just saying hey, no, I'm saying if you're not candid, 338 00:18:33,610 --> 00:18:35,117 you're gonna get these results. 339 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,370 How worried are you about the Nick Fuentes wing of Maga? 340 00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:47,837 - Well, first of all, I feel like I'm much more qualified 341 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,257 to critique what has been my own party. 342 00:18:52,340 --> 00:18:56,800 Although I've historically, Palantir's been the most anti-woke company. 343 00:19:00,060 --> 00:19:01,187 And like one of the things, 344 00:19:01,270 --> 00:19:03,807 it's really crazy when people are like attacking us online. 345 00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:07,477 And like you say that now. We've been saying a lot of things 346 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,937 that you would've gotten you fired 347 00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:13,817 or put out of business for 20 years, including meritocracy, 348 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:18,280 borders used violence to not do NeoCon bullshit. 349 00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:22,240 For 20 years and doing, saying it when it wasn't popular. 350 00:19:23,660 --> 00:19:28,670 I think almost all of these movements are downstream 351 00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:32,757 from the fact that the people who sign up for these things 352 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,677 that are like obviously not sensible, do not believe they're gonna participate 353 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,017 in this society economically. - Well let's be specific. 354 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,897 So the antisemitism is one of your signature issues. 355 00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:48,647 - Well actually, honestly, again, that's how people frame it. 356 00:19:48,730 --> 00:19:53,980 How about stupid discrimination of which antisemitism is a form? 357 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:57,490 - Stipulate to that. 358 00:19:58,820 --> 00:20:03,457 Nick Fuentes is a part of the republican conservative movement 359 00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:05,410 that's getting increasing intention, 360 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,037 has increasing intention, increasing voice. 361 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,837 How concerned are you about that and what does that tell you? 362 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,467 - Well again, it's again, you always have to disambiguate concern 363 00:20:14,550 --> 00:20:18,637 and do you have a legitimate, like I have a legitimate, 364 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,177 just, I'll answer your question, 365 00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:23,760 but I have a completely legitimate, authentic voice 366 00:20:25,220 --> 00:20:29,357 in the progressive democratic movement because that's been my whole life. 367 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,937 And so I feel like when I'm screaming about that, 368 00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:34,270 they really should listen even if they don't. 369 00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:39,157 You know, I am probably just at this point an independent 370 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,997 who thinks admires what Trump has done in it on many things. 371 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,167 And I think anybody who's not deranged would acknowledge 372 00:20:48,250 --> 00:20:51,997 these things and sure would. You know, so I think I don't have the credibility 373 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,837 to start throwing a hissy about what happens in the Republican party. 374 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,427 And I'll also say both parties, and again, let me just go to the party 375 00:21:00,510 --> 00:21:02,047 where I have more credibility. 376 00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:08,477 Like the way in which the Democrats just completely neglect males. 377 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:14,317 Like there is nothing wrong and it's admirable to be a somewhat 378 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,780 to high testosterone male. And you know, it's like, 379 00:21:19,820 --> 00:21:22,867 you have the general vibe in the Democratic party 380 00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:26,287 that it's like, there's something wrong. 381 00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:30,667 I don't know, like, yeah, there's some way in which, 382 00:21:30,750 --> 00:21:32,587 I don't find it very appealing as a dude. 383 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:36,047 I don't think most dudes do. It's a huge problem. 384 00:21:36,130 --> 00:21:40,087 And you can't address it. My primary issue on political stuff 385 00:21:40,170 --> 00:21:43,637 is not exactly in being slightly unfair to your question. 386 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,847 I think the primary issue for America is do we have a closed border? 387 00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:48,847 I mean at this point, I'm kind of a single issue voter. 388 00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:51,057 It's like, is the border closed or is it open? 389 00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:53,227 Like Europe is an unmitigated disaster 390 00:21:53,310 --> 00:21:57,567 because of like unfettered stupid migration - Of all the people you've met, 391 00:21:57,650 --> 00:21:58,987 who would make the best president? 392 00:21:59,070 --> 00:22:00,527 Who do you think should be the next president? 393 00:22:00,610 --> 00:22:07,117 The president that will legitimately incredibly say the borders staying closed 394 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,207 or there'll be common sense cultural standards used on top 395 00:22:10,290 --> 00:22:15,290 of just pure IQ and the president that can really, really 396 00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:19,627 credibly fight for workers. So like, sorry. 397 00:22:19,710 --> 00:22:21,717 - That sounds like the current vice president. 398 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,967 - I'm just going, you asked a question, I'm giving you an answer. 399 00:22:25,050 --> 00:22:30,970 The way I would judge it. Well, the way I would judge it is who is the person 400 00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:37,230 who actually believes and will implement things that make 401 00:22:37,650 --> 00:22:40,947 working class Americans healthier and wealthier? 402 00:22:41,030 --> 00:22:45,447 And yeah. - That sounds like vice president JD Vance raised in Appalachia. 403 00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:49,997 Do you like him as president? - You're asking lots of political questions 404 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,827 and I obviously support a lot of what the president does. 405 00:22:53,910 --> 00:22:56,037 I'm just gonna say, you asked a question. 406 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,297 I can answer and I'll tell you to go back to your other questions. 407 00:22:59,380 --> 00:23:03,587 The problem on the democratic side is if you're honest 408 00:23:03,670 --> 00:23:08,217 and private, it's now a party repping people 409 00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:12,520 with non-domain-specific knowledge who are kind of, 410 00:23:14,140 --> 00:23:16,397 and not the working class. - Is there someone you'd like to see 411 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:17,850 as the leader on that side? 412 00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:22,567 - Anyone who reps this? Like, it's like for me, it's the issues. 413 00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:24,987 Again, it's like, I know it's kind of all like, 414 00:23:25,070 --> 00:23:27,367 I don't think you have a politician has to connect 415 00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:31,037 with the people, but I'm not a politician nor is it a job for me to be one. 416 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:36,827 I connect with the two issues when I would say it's basically, what's gonna happen 417 00:23:36,910 --> 00:23:38,707 to the working class and is the border closed? 418 00:23:38,790 --> 00:23:40,750 Which is basically the same issue. 419 00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:48,847 So there was a biography of you just came out. 420 00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:53,017 You had a lot of cooperation on balance was very positive to you. 421 00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:55,517 You are worth 17 billion or 18 billion. 422 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,190 But most people don't realize that you came from very little. 423 00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:04,947 You told me a story about a jewelry store in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. 424 00:24:05,030 --> 00:24:07,777 You grew up in the Philadelphia suburbs. 425 00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:10,570 There was a landlord there who owned a jewelry store. 426 00:24:11,620 --> 00:24:12,367 - Well, it's in the book. 427 00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:14,617 And honestly, there's so many stories I would not have told. 428 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,077 Not because, you know, I don't know. 429 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,000 But any case, 430 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,500 my mom was totally fucked. 431 00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:29,760 Someone helped her, I paid them back 432 00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:35,470 - And that person was a landlord, gave her and you a place to live? 433 00:24:39,980 --> 00:24:42,107 And they still own a jewelry store. 434 00:24:42,190 --> 00:24:45,520 And how did you? - I used to buy a lot of stuff from them. 435 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:52,657 - To this day? - Yeah. - And what is there for others to learn from that? 436 00:24:52,740 --> 00:24:54,827 - Very few people will help you. 437 00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:59,457 And it's like her, the helping my mom, 438 00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:02,547 Mr. Schneider kind of helped me. 439 00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:05,717 A bunch of people. In general, people don't help you, 440 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,380 which is totally okay, but the ones that do are special. 441 00:25:10,170 --> 00:25:12,967 - And something the Palantir is doing is you have 442 00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:16,557 a fellowship now for high school students, 443 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,727 people without degrees, without credentials. 444 00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:23,357 You just tried the inaugural class, what did you learn from that? 445 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,150 And are you gonna do more of that? 446 00:25:26,690 --> 00:25:29,907 - I learned there's a lot of very talented people 447 00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:33,157 who would be better off learning domain specific things 448 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,200 than being indoctrinated at quasi elite schools that don't value them. 449 00:25:38,660 --> 00:25:41,960 I've learned and I hope that other people will copy this 450 00:25:43,170 --> 00:25:44,707 and we're gonna do more and more. 451 00:25:44,790 --> 00:25:48,427 It's good for the nation, it's great for Palantir. 452 00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:53,217 - And so you don't necessarily have to go to college to be successful. 453 00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:55,557 And it sounds like you're gonna invest more- - You know- 454 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,517 - In vocational training, high school training. 455 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,517 - Well, yeah, we probably should do that too, 456 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,517 but, you know, like first of all, we just kicked it off. 457 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,017 We were the first company I think to do this. 458 00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:05,107 I think other people we've had actually nations. 459 00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:10,027 And (mumbles) thing is have a number of nations call us like at the national level 460 00:26:10,110 --> 00:26:12,197 and saying, "Hey, we wanna learn from this." 461 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,237 Is it outside? - From the high school program? 462 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,617 - Yeah, like, yeah. One of the more fascinating things is, 463 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:20,497 I mean, I can't give details, but we have like a nation state saying, 464 00:26:20,580 --> 00:26:22,207 "Could you come over and teach us how to do this?" 465 00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:24,417 - And are you gonna do it? - Yeah, of course. 466 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:25,667 - And what are you gonna teach them? 467 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:28,837 Or what is the secret? - Well, it's, I mean, selection. 468 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,677 How do you select, how do you train, how do you provide. 469 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,637 Like what we're doing with them by the way, it's not indoctrination. 470 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,387 That's really interesting. People think we're just like, 471 00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:39,677 you come here and you learn there's only one way to do something ideologically, no. 472 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,517 We're exposing them to a wide swath of kind of core ideas- 473 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,317 - Because there's like a western sieve element to it. 474 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,197 - Yeah, but it's like western sieve, and then we have a lot of people actually 475 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:51,817 who've built things coming in. 476 00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:55,277 So we've had a lot of ex-Palantirians, current Palantirians. 477 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,197 I don't know, some of the people may not wanna be named like titans of industry. 478 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,657 Like you'd be a perfect person, come in. 479 00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:02,207 What does it mean to be a journalist? 480 00:27:02,290 --> 00:27:03,957 What does it mean to man journalist? 481 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,377 What does it mean to build a company? 482 00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:07,497 What are the assumptions? What have I learned? 483 00:27:07,580 --> 00:27:09,280 What does it mean to be selective? 484 00:27:10,550 --> 00:27:12,677 And then like what you won't hear, by the way, 485 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,880 we have like very prominent establishment progressives. 486 00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:20,307 I would say one of the things 487 00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:22,767 that I'm pretty adamant about is I actually care less 488 00:27:22,850 --> 00:27:27,440 about ideology and more about is this person at the pinnacle of their success. 489 00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:34,447 So as we say goodbye here, you just turned 58, 490 00:27:34,530 --> 00:27:39,530 you look a lot less, you just put on this skiing gear. 491 00:27:40,530 --> 00:27:42,790 What is your latest longevity hack? 492 00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:49,627 - You have to do technical Norwegian style, cardiovascular training. 493 00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:51,797 Look that up. That's a longer story. 494 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,627 But the normal cardiovascular training 495 00:27:53,710 --> 00:27:56,297 is basically at a certain level, not so valuable. 496 00:27:56,380 --> 00:28:00,267 - And then just some framing, bracketing, as you would say for our viewers. 497 00:28:00,350 --> 00:28:04,727 So Norway has by far, the most medals in the Winter Olympics. 498 00:28:04,810 --> 00:28:07,057 And your theory is that it's because of this kind of training? 499 00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:09,437 - Well it's not just because of that, 500 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,107 but I think if you did a regression of all humans 501 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:17,200 with VO2s above 90, you would find 98% were Norwegian. 502 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:21,407 And there's probably a genetic element, but the way that they train, 503 00:28:21,490 --> 00:28:23,787 which is basically being very careful about 504 00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:28,207 when you're in zone one and zone four and not being in zone two, 505 00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:30,377 and then you people should just look it up at that. 506 00:28:30,460 --> 00:28:35,837 And then what I've changed now is every second or third day I do pure strength. 507 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,757 And I used to do just that and kind of endurance strength. 508 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,677 But I think that really helps. 509 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,557 And then I do do like, I think something meditative, like I do Tai Chi every day. 510 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,517 I think those- - That's a Chinese martial art. 511 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,437 How does that change your life? 512 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,687 - Well, if you're entrepreneur doing something 513 00:28:54,770 --> 00:28:57,987 that like elicits cortisone, you want something 514 00:28:58,070 --> 00:29:01,277 that rebalances your like softer and harder energy 515 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,947 and it does that and it helps with sleep a lot. 516 00:29:04,030 --> 00:29:07,497 - You told me that you looked at me and you said, "I've been sleeping more." 517 00:29:07,580 --> 00:29:11,960 How much do you sleep? - I mean, I'm primarily a creative human. 518 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,377 My best work is done if I get eight hours sleep. 519 00:29:16,460 --> 00:29:19,797 I can't always do that 'cause I'm traveling and, you know, it's hard, 520 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,677 but I really strive for eight hours quality sleep 521 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,677 because what I notice is I just feel better, my brain works better. 522 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:26,687 slept well or at least have slept at all, and yeah. 523 00:29:26,770 --> 00:29:29,267 - Alex Karp, thanks for mixing it up with the Axios Show. 524 00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:30,350 - Thank you.