WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.445 Sam Altman now joins us live on Bloomberg Television from Fort Mason in San 00:00:05.528 --> 00:00:08.640 Francisco with BTEC host Ed Ludlow. 00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:16.985 Thank you, Romaine. And we'll start with that transition to an always on agent, 00:00:17.068 --> 00:00:17.902 Dots. Sam, 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:22.691 do you know what's interesting in the presentation is how internally open AI 00:00:22.774 --> 00:00:25.960 staff talk to Dots? Do you get what I mean? 00:00:26.290 --> 00:00:27.810 I think I do, but tell me. 00:00:28.670 --> 00:00:32.516 It isn't treating it like AI, like, hey, chat GPT. Yeah. Question. 00:00:32.599 --> 00:00:33.707 It's a conversation. 00:00:33.790 --> 00:00:37.375 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not I don't think it's, like, anthropomorphized. 00:00:37.458 --> 00:00:38.667 They don't we don't quite 00:00:38.750 --> 00:00:42.107 talk to it like a person, but there is a different style to it than traditional 00:00:42.190 --> 00:00:46.230 chat GPT. The reason I wanted to catch that first who's Dots for, really? 00:00:46.330 --> 00:00:49.837 It started as a premium product. We know it's you you know, we're putting our best 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:51.117 model Astra in this. Premium 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:55.117 kinda being prosumer. Sorry to interrupt. Or or it's an enterprise product? 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.812 More like more like for getting work done, I think think is largely enterprise, 00:00:58.895 --> 00:00:59.327 but there's 00:00:59.410 --> 00:01:01.727 a lot of people that are gonna build their own startups that are sort of in 00:01:01.810 --> 00:01:06.176 the traditional prosumer category. But this is, like, a very capable model, 00:01:06.259 --> 00:01:07.007 and it's a ton 00:01:07.090 --> 00:01:10.607 of usage. So we're starting for something at the top end of the market, and you 00:01:10.690 --> 00:01:13.447 will see us over time make a mass market consumer version. 00:01:13.530 --> 00:01:19.877 How much do you and the team, various people at OpenAI benchmark against 00:01:19.960 --> 00:01:21.217 the agents that 00:01:21.300 --> 00:01:24.727 are already out there? So how much do you use a Grock Bot, a Muse, and 00:01:24.810 --> 00:01:27.946 Instinct from the product perspective? Because they they've been out there 00:01:28.029 --> 00:01:29.907 a while, and people are actually using them. 00:01:29.990 --> 00:01:33.241 I've tried them. I don't use them regularly. 00:01:33.325 --> 00:01:35.667 I have not found a sort of place 00:01:35.750 --> 00:01:39.107 for them in my life, but I, you know, try to try every major new AI 00:01:39.190 --> 00:01:42.078 product. Product. This is a totally different category. Like, 00:01:42.161 --> 00:01:43.637 the amount of work, the level of 00:01:43.720 --> 00:01:46.287 capability, the level of intelligence this can take on, 00:01:46.370 --> 00:01:48.980 I think this is just a completely new thing. 00:01:49.080 --> 00:01:53.369 Why is it different? Like, literally, are we talking about its capabilities, 00:01:53.452 --> 00:01:54.117 or is this an 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:57.829 economic discussion of how you've priced it or where you've made it available 00:01:57.912 --> 00:01:58.797 in existing tiers? 00:01:58.880 --> 00:02:03.037 Well, I mean, it is priced higher than other things in the market, but the reason 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:08.240 for that is, is because of the capability and the amount of compute worth putting 00:02:08.323 --> 00:02:11.207 into this, which is why I think it's useful in a new kind of way at a 00:02:11.290 --> 00:02:16.727 new level. You've launched, GBT 6.1 Soul at, like, Astra capability. 00:02:16.810 --> 00:02:17.857 And a fifth of the price. 00:02:17.940 --> 00:02:20.980 But the price is so different. And, like, I've been trying to understand, like, 00:02:21.063 --> 00:02:21.257 what is 00:02:21.340 --> 00:02:26.243 the big picture story? It seems like we're moving towards cheaper inference at a time 00:02:26.327 --> 00:02:26.537 where 00:02:26.620 --> 00:02:32.057 everyone's much more willing to pay for it. Well How did you arrive at the tiers 00:02:32.140 --> 00:02:32.657 that you've done? 00:02:32.740 --> 00:02:37.440 I mean, we've talked for a long time about our goal is to make increasingly better 00:02:37.530 --> 00:02:41.136 intelligence and to drive the price down and down. And the reason, 00:02:41.220 --> 00:02:42.097 that I think both 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:45.767 of those are true is the better you make AI, the more people wanna use it. 00:02:45.850 --> 00:02:50.917 So people are clearly willing to spend more on AI than ever before, but they they 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.437 wanna do so much with it. So so our belief is that if we continue to 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:58.846 drive the quality up and the price down and really lead the Pareto frontier 00:02:58.930 --> 00:03:04.157 at every point on that curve, people will use our tools in tremendous ways. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:05.477 And just even here 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:09.142 today, like, hearing from developers about what they're building with this and what 00:03:09.226 --> 00:03:12.757 what they can do if we continue to drive the price down is really quite remarkable. 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:15.199 What is OpenAI's business momentum right now? 00:03:15.282 --> 00:03:18.370 How did you end the third quarter? What does that look like? 00:03:18.470 --> 00:03:20.947 I don't think we, like, put our specific numbers out, but 00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:22.787 numbers in the newspapers this morning. 00:03:22.870 --> 00:03:28.947 It is our, I mean, it's like a very steep growth period for us. I think 00:03:29.030 --> 00:03:33.853 what people love are models. We have really been able to make new products 00:03:33.936 --> 00:03:34.317 and new 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:39.835 tools for developers, for enterprises. ChatGPT is growing phenomenally well. 00:03:39.918 --> 00:03:42.947 So across the board, consumers, developers, 00:03:43.030 --> 00:03:46.807 enterprises, all this new stuff that we're launching at Dev Day, we see a lot of 00:03:46.890 --> 00:03:51.854 business momentum. The the reported number was ARR 70,000,000,000, I think, 00:03:51.937 --> 00:03:55.367 a three q number. I don't know Is that meaningful to you? 00:03:55.450 --> 00:04:00.727 I don't know where these reported leaks or reported numbers come from. But I I am 00:04:00.810 --> 00:04:04.185 obviously not gonna comment either way on that, but I will say, like, 00:04:04.268 --> 00:04:05.990 very pleased with the growth. 00:04:06.090 --> 00:04:10.595 The interesting thing about Dots as a product and agent, but also, 00:04:10.679 --> 00:04:11.930 six point one Soul 00:04:12.110 --> 00:04:17.867 is you made the decision to release those. This week, you held back the release of 00:04:17.950 --> 00:04:22.667 Astra 6.1, and last week, you paused training on a separate model. 00:04:22.750 --> 00:04:24.267 Yeah. Explain that how 00:04:24.350 --> 00:04:30.890 you come to that decision. So SOL 6.1. Okay. We held back Astra 6.1. 00:04:32.170 --> 00:04:34.439 We've been talking about this for a few months now, 00:04:34.522 --> 00:04:39.983 but our we're clearly getting into a very steep part of the capabilities curve. 00:04:40.067 --> 00:04:43.510 And given that our whole mission is to 00:04:45.430 --> 00:04:48.073 build this for people and to empower people, and part of that safety, 00:04:48.157 --> 00:04:48.627 part of that's 00:04:48.710 --> 00:04:53.773 why they're distributing the benefits, when we need to make a decision about 00:04:53.857 --> 00:04:54.857 slowing down our 00:04:54.940 --> 00:04:59.107 training or our model release so that we can make more progress and put more of 00:04:59.190 --> 00:05:03.242 our attention into safety, alignment, monitoring, security, 00:05:03.326 --> 00:05:06.467 we will happily do that. Now, of course, we're 00:05:06.550 --> 00:05:11.980 gonna continue to make progress, but the world should always have confidence in 00:05:12.064 --> 00:05:13.250 our safety cases, 00:05:13.410 --> 00:05:17.133 in our safety claims, and that we are going to be responsible with 00:05:17.217 --> 00:05:18.287 this technology. And 00:05:18.370 --> 00:05:21.627 and we don't wanna do this thing where, like, oh, we need, you know, regulation or 00:05:21.710 --> 00:05:24.667 we need our competitors to do x, y, or z, we won't be safe. We are 00:05:24.750 --> 00:05:28.123 going to do this responsibly. We want the world to have that confidence. 00:05:28.206 --> 00:05:31.893 Now there are still things that we can very reasonably release. So, like, 00:05:31.977 --> 00:05:33.397 a faster version of Astra or 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:39.115 a cheaper version of Astra Six, we can totally do on these wonderful new 00:05:39.198 --> 00:05:40.227 products. But, 00:05:40.310 --> 00:05:44.947 you know, I think, like, I understand why some people are just like, full YOLO pedal 00:05:45.030 --> 00:05:48.387 to the metal go, but we're gonna we're gonna have to be responsible as we push 00:05:48.470 --> 00:05:49.587 towards these new levels of capabilities. 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:51.414 There are some difficult questions, posed. 00:05:51.497 --> 00:05:53.927 I'm very conscious of the developer audience and also like 00:05:54.010 --> 00:05:57.457 the users of the technology. You said that the the two main things that they want 00:05:57.540 --> 00:06:00.476 are speed and performance, and you you released, 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.927 new mechanisms to achieve that with existing generation 00:06:04.010 --> 00:06:09.092 of model. Why is that better as a technique than releasing a more capable 00:06:09.175 --> 00:06:13.757 model? Well, I mean, they want that too. We will also do that. The the so I 00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:16.447 think all of those things are good. You know, speed, price, 00:06:16.530 --> 00:06:17.997 and capability are certainly three 00:06:18.080 --> 00:06:22.727 of the things people ask for the most often. And I think the answer is all. 00:06:22.810 --> 00:06:26.293 People want all of them in different different use cases. That said, 00:06:26.376 --> 00:06:27.437 ultrafast, I think, is 00:06:27.520 --> 00:06:30.877 a really special thing. I did not appreciate how much I was going to like it 00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:33.527 and how hard it is for me to go back. I should have known because, like, 00:06:33.610 --> 00:06:35.607 we all want everything to be faster, but it is awesome. 00:06:35.690 --> 00:06:40.090 Is it an economic proposition for OpenAI? Are the economics a bit good for you? 00:06:40.190 --> 00:06:45.627 Well, it's much more expensive to run, but we do charge more for it too. So 00:06:45.710 --> 00:06:48.267 we tried to make it something that, you know, it's like a 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:50.597 We can talk to Sarah about the balance between 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:54.747 Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, I I think the market will decide, but I 00:06:54.830 --> 00:06:57.477 think people will be excited about it at this price, and it's reasonable for us. 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:02.187 You you were just asked again about an IPO, and what you said is you want 00:07:02.270 --> 00:07:04.717 to be public one day. Yes. But, essentially, 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.017 the duties of being a public company are 00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:10.620 incompatible with a dedication or focus on safety. Is that 00:07:10.780 --> 00:07:17.177 Not quite. To be a newly public company and for us to understand how to live 00:07:17.260 --> 00:07:23.011 life as a public company with, you know, pressure from investors and sort of just 00:07:23.094 --> 00:07:23.857 the 00:07:23.940 --> 00:07:27.010 all of the additional weight that comes with that while we are going through 00:07:27.094 --> 00:07:30.162 this period of adjusting to this new level of capability, 00:07:30.245 --> 00:07:32.797 and the new safety requirements for that. We 00:07:32.880 --> 00:07:37.597 just wanna get our feet under us, make sure we understand how to operate in this 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:40.637 new way, be able to make some of these decisions in front of us without the 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:45.537 pressure of being a newly public company. And then I think we'll be public at some 00:07:45.620 --> 00:07:48.727 point. There will be more new levels that come, but but it won't be all at 00:07:48.810 --> 00:07:49.537 the same time. 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:55.217 Do you feel support from the existing cap table to just hold off 2028? Does it 00:07:55.300 --> 00:07:59.597 matter? Our investors seem, like, very happy with us and very patient. 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:04.077 Let me ask you this to conclude. It's very rare people have said for you and 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.019 Jerome Powell and Elon Musk to agree on something, 00:08:07.103 --> 00:08:09.187 this idea of pacing the frontier. And 00:08:09.270 --> 00:08:14.138 OpenAI has disclosed quite clearly, like, internal frameworks of what you plan 00:08:14.221 --> 00:08:15.037 to do. I think 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.161 people are still trying to understand what the collective effort looks like. 00:08:18.244 --> 00:08:22.244 If you collaborate with your peers or you work with the administration, 00:08:22.327 --> 00:08:25.870 what does that actually result in on an AI safety 00:08:25.970 --> 00:08:30.607 I think one thing that would be good would be shared standards for safety cases about 00:08:30.690 --> 00:08:36.767 when you know, what you need at each level to proceed, without undue risk and then 00:08:36.850 --> 00:08:41.150 some sort of shared methods for ensuring that everybody is doing a good job 00:08:41.233 --> 00:08:44.237 in implementing those. And that could be independent evaluators. 00:08:44.321 --> 00:08:46.817 That could be government review. That could be companies 00:08:46.900 --> 00:08:49.109 checking each other's work. There have been many proposals there. 00:08:49.192 --> 00:08:50.577 But I think those two things would be good. 00:08:50.660 --> 00:08:55.237 How do you feel about the disclosure of the risk? You talked to the United Nations 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.952 about it doesn't matter the percentage risk. Still too great. Yeah. 00:08:59.035 --> 00:09:00.117 The news cycle had in 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:05.557 a tropics prospectus, the the existential threat to humanity disclosed in black 00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:06.797 and white. Is that 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:10.571 incumbent on you as a frontier lab? I appreciate you felt confidentially, 00:09:10.654 --> 00:09:12.930 but do you just need to put it out there? 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.157 I think this has nothing to do with going public. This is just, I think, our 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.167 responsibility for our mission and what we're working on To do it anyway. 00:09:19.250 --> 00:09:22.190 Explain to the world the risks and benefits that we see in the sort 00:09:22.274 --> 00:09:24.350 of shifting landscape as things evolve. 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:28.447 Sam Altman, OpenAI CEO, having us here at Dev Day. Thank you very much. 00:09:28.530 --> 00:09:30.230 Thank you for coming. Indeed.