1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,157 There was a moment at India's AI summit 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:07,637 where you and Sam Altman appeared to refuse to hold hands on stage. What 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,957 happened there? >> What happened is that the summit was 4 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:14,437 extremely disorganized. We all came up at the last minute and they like changed 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,837 the order in which we were standing and then like they took a picture of us and 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,637 then they ordered us all to like hold hands. You know, if you've ever been to 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,797 one of these summit I'm not saying anything bad about India in particular 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,957 but like all of these kind of international type summits that have 9 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,277 like heads of state are like super disorganized. 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,837 >> Okay, but everyone else held hands. Come on. 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,197 >> I I look I I don't know I don't know what to tell you, okay? There was like, 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,357 you know, Narendra Modi up there suddenly telling everyone to like 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,517 suddenly [laughter] telling everyone to hold hands. 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,797 >> All right, all right. Well, okay, look. 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,517 Sam and Elon are suing each other. You don't like Sam. 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,277 I I it seems. If the people building the most important technology in the world 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,397 can't hold hands on stage, how can we trust you'll cooperate on existential 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,317 risk? >> There are some players who are more 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,757 trustworthy than others and you know, I think there are players outside 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,677 Anthropic who you know, who who I trust who I see as 21 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,597 trustworthy. What I think needs to 22 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,437 happen is that the trustworthy actors 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,797 need to need to get together and and put 24 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,477 the untrustworthy actors in a position where they kind of have to adopt the 25 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,997 same standards. With a lot of experience, I've learned that there are 26 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,597 some folks who don't do the right thing on their own. But if there's a majority 27 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,637 of the industry that's doing the right thing, then I think the rest of the 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,277 industry is is kind of they're left in a position where there's 29 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,957 not much they can do that that that then come along. 30 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,677 >> Your decision to leave Open AI has become Silicon Valley lore. 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,637 What really happened? Like beyond the narrative, what were the issues? What 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,397 did you disagree on? >> Look, I'll I'm going to say it. I'm 33 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,197 going to say it very simply. You know, there are many valid disagreements to be 34 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,477 had on safety. We certainly had some of those disagreements with them, but you 35 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,237 know, people that that that that alone is not sufficient to leave. People here 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,637 have had disagreements with me. People here have disagreements with each other. 37 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,957 But, when you feel that you can't trust 38 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,197 someone, when you feel that their values 39 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,757 are not what they say they are, when you feel that they're not honest, when you 40 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,437 feel that they're not in it for the 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,397 reasons that they say, um when you see 42 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:23,917 disturbing 43 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,757 uh uh patterns of behavior, dishonesty, 44 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,397 that makes it very hard to, you know, to continue to work with a company, to 45 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,717 continue to trust the company. And look, at the end of the day, 46 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,437 why argue with someone when you don't have the same vision and you don't trust 47 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,717 them? Like, the way the the way to 48 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,797 resolve it is you go off and do your 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,637 thing, they go off and do their thing. 50 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,877 And I am completely at peace with uh the 51 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,397 idea that we're doing things our way and they're doing things their way. We'll 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:01,160 see who wins in the market and we'll see who wins in the court of public opinion.