# The Real Reason Anthropic's CEO Walked Away From Sam Altman *Bloomberg Originals* ยท https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT5O8flkkyg ## Summary In this short Bloomberg interview, Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei explains the viral moment at India's AI summit where he and Sam Altman appeared not to hold hands, attributing it to summit disorganization rather than a deliberate snub. He discusses how trustworthy AI actors should band together to force higher standards on the rest of the industry. Most notably, he says his decision to leave OpenAI came not from safety disagreements but from a loss of trust in the company's leadership, their honesty and their stated values, and that he's at peace with each company going its own way. ## Key points - Dario Amodei says the India AI summit hand-holding moment was due to disorganization, not a deliberate snub of Sam Altman. - He argues the trustworthy actors in AI need to band together so untrustworthy players are forced to adopt the same standards. - He says safety disagreements alone were not enough to make him leave OpenAI, since disagreements are normal. - He says he left because he felt he could not trust the company's leadership โ€” that their values, honesty and motives were not what they claimed. - He says he is at peace with Anthropic and OpenAI doing things their own way, and the market and public opinion will decide who wins. ## Notes ### The India AI summit hand-holding moment - Dario Amodei explains that the summit was extremely disorganized; the order of people on stage was changed at the last minute. - Everyone was suddenly ordered to hold hands for a photo, including Narendra Modi telling people to do so. - He insists it was not a deliberate refusal to hold Sam Altman's hand, and that these international summits with heads of state are generally chaotic. ### Trust and cooperation on existential risk - Asked how AI leaders can cooperate on existential risk if they can't hold hands on stage, he says some players are more trustworthy than others. - His view: trustworthy actors need to get together and put untrustworthy actors in a position where they have to adopt the same standards. - He notes that from experience, some people won't do the right thing on their own, but if a majority of the industry does, the rest have little choice but to come along. ### Why he really left OpenAI - He says there were valid disagreements on safety, but disagreements alone are not sufficient reason to leave โ€” people disagree with him and with each other all the time. - The real issue: he felt he could not trust the company's leadership โ€” that their values were not what they said, that they were not honest, and were not in it for the reasons they claimed. - He describes disturbing patterns of behavior and dishonesty that made it very hard to keep working with or trusting the company. ### Where things stand now - His resolution: go off and do your own thing rather than argue with someone you don't share a vision with or trust. - He is completely at peace with Anthropic doing things their way and OpenAI doing things theirs. - Ultimately, he says, we'll see who wins in the market and in the court of public opinion. ## Transcript [00:00] There was a moment at India's AI summit where you and Sam Altman appeared to refuse to hold hands on stage. What happened there? >> What happened is that the summit was extremely disorganized. We all came up at the last minute and they like changed the order in which we were standing and then like they took a picture of us and then they ordered us all to like hold hands. You know, if you've ever been to one of these summit I'm not saying anything bad about India in particular but like all of these kind of international type summits that have like heads of state are like super disorganized. >> Okay, but everyone else held hands. Come on. >> I I look I I don't know I don't know what to tell you, okay? There was like, [00:38] you know, Narendra Modi up there suddenly telling everyone to like suddenly [laughter] telling everyone to hold hands. >> All right, all right. Well, okay, look. Sam and Elon are suing each other. You don't like Sam. I I it seems. If the people building the most important technology in the world can't hold hands on stage, how can we trust you'll cooperate on existential risk? >> There are some players who are more trustworthy than others and you know, I think there are players outside Anthropic who you know, who who I trust who I see as trustworthy. What I think needs to happen is that the trustworthy actors need to need to get together and and put the untrustworthy actors in a position where they kind of have to adopt the [01:20] same standards. With a lot of experience, I've learned that there are some folks who don't do the right thing on their own. But if there's a majority of the industry that's doing the right thing, then I think the rest of the industry is is kind of they're left in a position where there's not much they can do that that that then come along. >> Your decision to leave Open AI has become Silicon Valley lore. What really happened? Like beyond the narrative, what were the issues? What did you disagree on? >> Look, I'll I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it very simply. You know, there are many valid disagreements to be had on safety. We certainly had some of those disagreements with them, but you [01:58] know, people that that that that alone is not sufficient to leave. People here have had disagreements with me. People here have disagreements with each other. But, when you feel that you can't trust someone, when you feel that their values are not what they say they are, when you feel that they're not honest, when you feel that they're not in it for the reasons that they say, um when you see disturbing uh uh patterns of behavior, dishonesty, that makes it very hard to, you know, to continue to work with a company, to continue to trust the company. And look, at the end of the day, why argue with someone when you don't have the same vision and you don't trust them? Like, the way the the way to resolve it is you go off and do your [02:44] thing, they go off and do their thing. And I am completely at peace with uh the idea that we're doing things our way and they're doing things their way. We'll see who wins in the market and we'll see who wins in the court of public opinion.