WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.597 I think movies play the role in our culture that myths and legends used to 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:07.117 play in ancient cultures or that novels used 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:09.237 to play 100 years ago. They're the art 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:14.277 form that that is capable of basically containing and expressing and making 00:00:14.360 --> 00:00:17.957 permanent the most important aspects of a culture or of a civilization. 00:00:18.040 --> 00:00:21.237 >> There were a lot of great films in 2019 and then 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:24.797 like just a memory hole of like what great film has come out since then. Like 00:00:24.880 --> 00:00:27.957 something happened in Hollywood. The scripts that are being written, the 00:00:28.040 --> 00:00:31.117 types of things that are being made today are very very different than what 00:00:31.200 --> 00:00:34.960 was happening in 2018 2019. 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:40.677 Mark, you've been known to monitor a situation or two. 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:43.877 Welcome to the program. Eric, how would you characterize me as a 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:49.517 situation monitor? Or Extremely eager, 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.357 you know. I picture you with 00:00:53.440 --> 00:00:55.037 thorough. I picture you with security 00:00:55.120 --> 00:00:58.597 cameras just extensively monitoring, you 00:00:58.680 --> 00:01:04.317 know. Um At all hours of the night. Um So basically Howard Hughes and Katherine 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:08.357 Howard Hughes in the penthouse, is that the Yeah. 00:01:08.440 --> 00:01:11.717 Um You're an elite situation monitor, which is why you're here. We're we're so 00:01:11.800 --> 00:01:14.477 happy to have you. Well, speaking of movies, I'm watching all the James Bond 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:18.077 movies with with my my 10-year-old and we just got to Live and Let Die. Is it 00:01:18.160 --> 00:01:21.157 No, which one? Diamonds Are Forever, which is the one set in Las Vegas. 00:01:21.240 --> 00:01:24.477 And it turns out the producer Harry Saltzman of the Bond movies was a close 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:27.637 personal friend of Howard Hughes at the time. So they set the movie in Vegas and 00:01:27.720 --> 00:01:30.037 had all this cooperation from Hughes and there's actually a Hughes character in 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.197 the movie, but I'm just going to give a spoiler alert. 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.197 Blofeld has kidnapped Hughes and is holding him hostage 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:40.117 and has him a substitute in and is is is pretending to be Hughes and James Bond 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:44.517 scales the side of Hughes's big casino in Vegas at the time and drops down 00:01:44.600 --> 00:01:48.397 through the skylight into essentially Howard Hughes's bathroom. 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:52.917 And the bathroom is literally set up with like monitors 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.237 and like, you know, computers and like typewriters and like, you know, an 00:01:57.320 --> 00:01:59.557 elaborate phone system 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:03.117 and then a single golden roll of paper. 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:06.357 And Bond drops into it and he's like, Hmm. 00:02:06.440 --> 00:02:08.827 And I was like, that's the perfect bathroom. 00:02:08.910 --> 00:02:12.997 [Laughter] Our our new media team has a Twitter 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.997 group chat called monitoring the situation where 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:19.557 that's that's the room that we they want in the office for for 00:02:19.640 --> 00:02:23.157 Exactly. I want the things happening in Twitter. Um with that let's segue I 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:24.797 Did they ask for it to be the bathroom? 00:02:24.880 --> 00:02:28.997 Is that was that part of it? Yeah, that would be the next step. I believe. 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:31.157 >> just be an added an added on feature? 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:33.717 Yeah. All right. Let's proceed. 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:37.077 Mark, not that many not everybody knows this about you, but 00:02:37.160 --> 00:02:40.837 you are an extensive movie buff and movie aficionado and you've been 00:02:40.920 --> 00:02:43.557 having some commentary in our group chats lately over some films that you 00:02:43.640 --> 00:02:47.997 think are are worth watching right now and and kind of broader commentary 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.757 around what's what's been happening in in films. So why don't you want you 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.437 share that with us? Yeah, so let me start by saying, you 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.797 know, kind of why why start by saying like why this topic matters. 00:02:57.880 --> 00:03:02.597 And so, you know, cuz Like you're like I think this does matter a lot. So um 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.077 So first of all, I'll say like I've got like enormous respect for anybody who 00:03:05.160 --> 00:03:07.997 does anything creative and so like every time I see a movie, I'm just kind of 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:10.637 marveling. Like I know what it takes to make one. It's like making a you know, 00:03:10.720 --> 00:03:13.797 making a text editor or something. It's just like this incredible labor of love 00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:16.397 and effort and blood, sweat and tears on everybody's part. And so it's and it's 00:03:16.480 --> 00:03:19.957 just like a minor miracle, I think, whenever any of these things actually 00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:22.957 you know, show up as a as a as a two-hour executed 00:03:23.040 --> 00:03:27.437 film. And so and I I think that's amazing. And so you know, none of what 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.917 we're about to talk about, you know, should be considered a knock on on 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.797 filmmakers per se or the people who put all this work into it. 00:03:32.880 --> 00:03:35.597 And the other thing I say is look, in the last, you know, whatever 5 years, 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.397 decade, 20 years, there've been a tremendous number of what you could call 00:03:38.480 --> 00:03:41.117 you know, highly entertaining movies, right? And and some that I think are 00:03:41.200 --> 00:03:44.437 like jaw-dropping, right? So like, you know, like the just like, you know, one 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.237 of my favorite genres action, you know, the John Wick movies are like, you know, 00:03:47.320 --> 00:03:48.877 the best action movies of all time. 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:51.117 They're all in the last whatever 15 years. 00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:53.877 You know, you you could name that for a lot of different kinds of movies. You 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:57.237 know, the the sort of you know, the the entertainment factor is you know, 00:03:57.320 --> 00:04:01.197 remains very high. Um having said that, you know, I think movies and Catherine 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.557 and I see if you agree with me on this or not. I think movies play the role in 00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:08.037 our culture that myths and legends 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:12.077 used to play in ancient cultures or that novels 00:04:12.160 --> 00:04:16.277 maybe used to play, you know, 100 years ago or that 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:20.637 you know, you know, maybe songs used to play or something like that, 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:23.957 which is basically they're the art form that 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.077 is capable of basically containing and 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:31.997 expressing and making permanent the most important aspects of a culture 00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:35.077 or of a civilization, right? So so sometimes you'll hear the term like 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:36.997 there's this term called the Great American Novel and there you know, so 00:04:37.080 --> 00:04:39.917 they do these certain novels like The Great Gatsby or whatever that like or To 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:42.357 Kill a Mockingbird that kind of capture the spirit of the times and kind of 00:04:42.440 --> 00:04:45.317 become immortal through doing that. And and I think, you know, basically and I 00:04:45.400 --> 00:04:48.317 love novels, but like, you know, that the idea that novels do that I think is 00:04:48.400 --> 00:04:51.357 probably at this point, you know, pretty unlikely for a variety of reasons. We 00:04:51.440 --> 00:04:54.517 could have a whole separate podcast on that. But for the last, let's say at 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.837 least 60 years and probably 100 years like movies have been the way that that 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:01.557 that that our culture that our culture is able to express itself in a way that 00:05:01.640 --> 00:05:05.077 is going to really deeply stand the test of time where people 100 and 200 and 500 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.117 years from now are going to look back and kind of say this is what these 00:05:07.200 --> 00:05:10.117 people are about. By the way, Catherine, would you agree with that? 00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:14.277 Yeah, no no, definitely. I mean I think uh I I think it was 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:19.157 I think in slow decline probably the last 25 years. Um because fewer like, 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:22.757 you know, probably the '90s was the the last decade where everyone watched the 00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:25.957 same movies and the Oscars were indicative of like what's a great film 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:28.677 that everyone has to see. I would love to hear when you think it 00:05:28.760 --> 00:05:31.717 started bifurcating, but it does feel like there's been this sort of 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.957 bifurcation of if, you know, maybe you could say the Tarantino films of the 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:38.357 last 20 years were were widely watched 00:05:38.440 --> 00:05:43.157 and mattered in cinematic lore, but like it feels like there was a lot more 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.077 to say to say it like the next Great American Novel is actually the next 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.677 Great American Movie. That feels like that maybe that ended in the '90s. 00:05:49.760 --> 00:05:53.797 Yeah, so it is it's possible. Although you could also say, you know, it it is 00:05:53.880 --> 00:05:56.437 interesting because as we've discussed in other other other forums, it's not 00:05:56.520 --> 00:05:59.157 that there aren't cultural artifacts that everybody participates in. Like, 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.677 you know, everybody you know, I am told there's this young lady named 00:06:02.760 --> 00:06:05.917 Taylor Swift who is apparently extremely popular. 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.957 And I am told that other than me, everybody follows her with a great deal of 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:13.277 avid attention and I'm told that she has a new, I guess what, album and movie and 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.277 Album. Was that? Album? Yeah. And there's a movie. There's a new movie coming out, 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:20.117 too, I think, right? I I believe. 00:06:20.200 --> 00:06:23.637 I just remember I remember her breakthrough. She actually her first movie 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:27.317 was the movie a couple years ago that came out that was so popular, her movie. 00:06:27.400 --> 00:06:32.157 There was she had a like a thing on Netflix that was sort of 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.517 following her around that that kind of Okay, so okay, here's something I know 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:37.917 about Taylor Swift that you don't, which is the only time in my life I'm going to 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:42.037 be able to utter those words. She she did a famous thing actually in 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:44.957 Hollywood in the movie industry. She actually she released I think that I 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:48.237 think whatever that was, she released that actually in the theaters 00:06:48.320 --> 00:06:50.677 and it was actually very significant that she did that because she cut the 00:06:50.760 --> 00:06:52.477 deal directly with the theater owners. 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.597 And I think it was a straight 50/50 revenue split with the theater owners 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.397 and so and she she booked it directly and it was like on like it was like a 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.317 huge release. It was like on 4,000 screens and it was like extremely 00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:03.997 popular and like all, you know, a lot of you know, Taylor Swift fans and a lot of 00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:07.237 you families with young girls like, you know, went to see it and I I remember it 00:07:07.320 --> 00:07:10.437 at the time because it was the same it it it it went big the same week that 00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:14.437 Martin Scorsese's movie Killers of the Flower Moon 00:07:14.520 --> 00:07:18.117 was in theaters and if you remember the the reviews of and Martin Scorsese's one 00:07:18.200 --> 00:07:20.637 of these filmmakers who's made these mythical movies, you know, that will for 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.717 sure stand the test of time. And so, you know, Killers of the Flower Moon was a 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.957 movie that he intended to do that and we and I don't I don't think it it did and 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.877 we can talk about why not, but it was this movie about, you know, it was a 00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:34.277 period piece set in the 1920s about, you know, basically the rape and pillage of 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:38.877 Native American, you know, missing out for resources by, you know, 00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:43.117 evil white people. And but it was a three-hour movie and it was apparently I 00:07:43.200 --> 00:07:45.517 didn't see it, but apparently it was extremely slow and then apparently it 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.757 had these extremely long stretches of of silence cuz he was trying to get across 00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:52.917 this sense of like awe and grandeur and like emotional impact and apparently 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.917 what would happen is that movie would be playing adjacent to the Taylor Swift 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.597 movie and the Taylor Swift movie was so loud that whenever he would go to the 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.757 silent part, you would just hear Taylor Swift pounding away on stage. Um 00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:06.757 Probably helps the movie out. Probably helps the movie out a little bit. 00:08:06.840 --> 00:08:10.757 Arguably arguably improved the movie from from from from 00:08:10.840 --> 00:08:13.757 from what I heard. You know, filled in the missing soundtrack. So anyways, 00:08:13.840 --> 00:08:17.357 there are still mechanical issues with with reproduction of these things, but 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:21.477 um how did I get on that? Um So anyway, the point is there are, you 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:23.837 know, there there are these things, you know, there are we do have cultural 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.477 artifacts that sort of have, you know, almost universal, you know, attention. 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:31.797 It's just a To me it's just a question of like, okay, like where are the like 00:08:31.880 --> 00:08:35.317 let's just say true arts like with a capital A is the thing that not only 00:08:35.400 --> 00:08:38.357 captures the popular imagination, like not only the people really experience, 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:41.077 but also is the thing that actually has the lasting impact such that in 10 years 00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:44.997 and 20 years and 50 years and 100 years like people are still discussing it. And 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:47.517 is it and you know, maybe a couple things you could you could say. One is 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.037 like as time passes, the sort of most important cultural artifacts are sort of 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:54.597 continuously reinterpreted, right? And so the the way that it comes across when 00:08:54.680 --> 00:08:57.277 it's released is not the same way that it comes across 5 or 10 years later and 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:00.477 then 20 years later and and then sort of each new generation that discovers it, 00:09:00.560 --> 00:09:03.677 you know, maybe interprets it and talks about it in a different way. 00:09:03.760 --> 00:09:06.197 And then yeah, and then and then so basically 00:09:06.280 --> 00:09:09.957 like capital A art is is the ability to do that. And so 00:09:10.040 --> 00:09:13.197 like I like for sure it's true that the audience overall has fragmented. For 00:09:13.280 --> 00:09:16.877 sure it's true that like the internet, you know, has like, you know, created is 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.477 sucking away, you know, just enormous amounts of time and attention 00:09:19.560 --> 00:09:22.477 from movies. You know, it's it's certainly true that, you know, the 00:09:22.560 --> 00:09:24.677 business pressures in Hollywood that we can talk about are, you know, are 00:09:24.760 --> 00:09:27.717 probably more intense than ever. But it is but it is still true that I think it 00:09:27.800 --> 00:09:30.517 is still possible to do what we're describing. And and again, we'll talk 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.157 about this more, but yeah, I think we we'd all agree Tarantino, you know, was 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:36.197 able to do this with Once Upon a Time in Hollywood not that recently. So anyway, 00:09:36.280 --> 00:09:39.797 maybe we can say I still hold out hope that this is possible. Like I I think 00:09:39.880 --> 00:09:43.157 this is the thing that that that that the best filmmakers in the world in the 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:44.797 country really ought to be able to do. 00:09:44.880 --> 00:09:47.357 Would you would you agree with that or do you think it's do you think that's 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:50.957 that's too optimistic? I hope. I mean I I think I'm a little more pessimistic 00:09:51.040 --> 00:09:56.237 than you that I do think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is the last American movie. 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:59.197 But for different reasons probably. Like I think not only what you know it's like 00:09:59.280 --> 00:10:02.717 again like Tarantino is you know this I think he has one more film in him as he 00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:06.397 says but that was really his his final opus right like the penultimate film is 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.557 the the that that was what he had been kind of moving towards and I think he 00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:14.957 said his last film is going to be a much kind of scaled down smaller sort of film 00:10:15.040 --> 00:10:19.317 when he decides to do it. But like I think there's something about 2019 in 00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:20.837 particular. There were so many great 00:10:20.920 --> 00:10:26.517 films in 2019. There was 1917 Parasite won the Oscar stole it from Once Upon a 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:29.037 Time in Hollywood in my opinion but still was like a decent film like there 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:33.917 were a lot of great films in 2019 and then like just a memory hole of like what 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.957 great film has come out since then. Like I I some something happened with COVID where 00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:40.637 we stopped going to the theater and it does kind of map to that you know no one 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:42.797 goes to the theater anymore but it's also like something happened in 00:10:42.880 --> 00:10:45.677 Hollywood which I know we want to get your take on what happened in Hollywood 00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:49.277 because it does feel like there's you know the the scripts that are being 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:52.957 written the the types of things that are being made today are very very different 00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:55.837 than what was happening in 2018 2019. 00:10:55.920 --> 00:10:58.317 Yeah so just spend a moment let's spend a moment on the state of Hollywood for 00:10:58.400 --> 00:11:00.877 for people who don't track it and so there's a bunch of things. So yeah look 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.677 the theater business has obviously taken a giant hit kind of in the wake of 00:11:03.760 --> 00:11:07.237 COVID. You know COVID was like this big you know was this big step down you know 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:09.277 because the theaters you know were closed longer than everything else and 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.477 then there there was this there's been this question ever since of kind of how 00:11:11.560 --> 00:11:14.397 to re-engage those audiences and get them to go back to the theater and you 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:16.677 know that you know maybe that's just a secular change that most of the people 00:11:16.760 --> 00:11:20.237 being on their phones or whatever. You know having said that it's not quite you 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:22.437 know I don't think a complete explanation for what's happened to the 00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:25.277 art form and and the reason for that is the the the length of time that it takes 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.717 to actually make a movie right and so the movies that showed up 00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:31.397 in the theater in 2019 got greenlit in 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:36.437 you know call it 2015 or 2016 you know they got staffed in 2016 2017 and then 00:11:36.520 --> 00:11:40.757 they got executed in like 20 you know basically 2017 2018 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:43.157 and and then they went through you know editing and post-production and so forth 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:45.557 and you know for for big movies that's you know that whole process is like a 00:11:45.640 --> 00:11:48.437 two-year process and then and then there's the long run 00:11:48.520 --> 00:11:50.917 up to release with the marketing campaign and you know all the you know 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.757 put the actors on the road and do all the stuff and so there's like a whatever 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:57.197 is four-month ad campaign or whatever and so you know by the time you go 00:11:57.280 --> 00:12:00.477 through that process you know start to end it's like four or five years and so 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:03.077 for once upon a time to show I don't know exactly when it was greenlit but 00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:07.677 for it to for when it to for it to show up in 2019 meant that basically it the 00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:12.597 making of it the backstory probably starts you know no no later than 2015. 00:12:12.680 --> 00:12:14.957 And and and I just bring that up which means the movies that hit the theaters 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:19.077 in 2021 started in like 2017 right and the movies that are showing up today 00:12:19.160 --> 00:12:24.037 started in 2020. Right and so so it's it's so the the the 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:26.557 COVID explanation is not sufficient for what we've seen in the last five years 00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:28.997 because those movies were greenlit under conditions of COVID. Those movies were 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:31.277 greenlit under conditions of pre-COVID. 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.117 And so what whatever changes have taken place which which we can talk about I 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:37.757 think start you know probably started around 2015. 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.237 And and what what is your theory around why things really started changing in 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:44.597 the 2020 decade of film? Yeah so again let me let me give you 00:12:44.680 --> 00:12:47.757 know again sort of maximum maximum you know kind of you know kind of respect 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:51.117 here which is like there's no question a couple things. So just the secular 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.077 changes. So one thing is look the streaming revolution has had a very big 00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:57.917 impact and and the streaming revolution hit Hollywood incredibly hard very 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.557 positively for a stretch basically through the 2010s because the all the 00:13:02.640 --> 00:13:04.837 companies that were engaged in the streaming wars started spending just 00:13:04.920 --> 00:13:08.637 unprecedented amounts of money on on on televisions and shows of all shows and 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:11.917 movies of all kinds and so there was just a giant flood of money. And I would 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:14.037 say the mood in Hollywood I don't know whatever eight years ago or something 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.637 six years ago was you might even describe as euphoric from a business 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.077 standpoint just cuz like I mean the big thing was when Netflix scaled up 00:13:20.160 --> 00:13:22.837 to the point where they were spending like 20 billion dollars a year on on 00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:25.397 content which is just like this you know this giant flood of money to everybody 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:27.877 else. And there were like you know whatever a dozen streaming companies or 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.717 whatever all the different platforms that wanted to compete. 00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:33.477 And and so that money kind of took off like a rocket and then what's happened 00:13:33.560 --> 00:13:36.597 is as the streaming as the streamers are consolidating as the streaming wars are 00:13:36.680 --> 00:13:39.557 are kind of rationalizing that money got pulled back. 00:13:39.640 --> 00:13:42.357 That was a big you know kind of financial blow and then the other thing 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:46.597 that streaming did that has really affected things a lot in in Hollywood in 00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:50.797 a very negative way which is streaming cut off the financial upside 00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:55.037 to the films and TV and so films used to when they were hits they 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.717 they first they would sell a lot of box office 00:13:57.800 --> 00:14:02.477 and then they would and then they would sell like the television rights you know 00:14:02.560 --> 00:14:05.037 ultimately the streaming rights and then and then they'd have this long after 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.317 market where they would you know sell DVDs. 00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:10.797 You know video tape rentals in the 80s and 90s and then DVDs in the 2000s and 00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:14.117 2010s and so if you had a movie that was a hit like it could run and you know it 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:18.557 could run for years generating just like enormous amounts of revenue and cash. 00:14:18.640 --> 00:14:21.677 And then same thing with TV shows you know it used to be a successful TV show 00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:24.757 the line I think was six seasons and a movie where if it got to like whatever 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.477 100 episodes or something it would enter syndication and then you could sell it 00:14:27.560 --> 00:14:29.637 for hundreds of millions of dollars and there would be all this upside for the 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:31.917 people involved in creating it. And what happened with streaming and the 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:35.037 economics of streaming is those those forms of upside just vanished cuz what 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.557 happens is the streamers just buy the projects with like a cost plus model a 00:14:38.640 --> 00:14:41.717 lot of the time. And so you make the movie and you turn around you sell it 00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:45.637 for like a 10% profit margin to a streamer and then there's no after 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:48.957 market cuz it's just a tile on the streaming service. Right and and and 00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:51.917 there's no you know there's no DVD sales there's no you know there's no TV 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.197 syndication rights it those concepts are irrelevant. You know the streamer just 00:14:55.280 --> 00:14:57.717 has sort of a perpetual right or a 20-year right or whatever to be able to 00:14:57.800 --> 00:14:59.957 show it at that sort of fixed fee. 00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:03.277 And so so the upside got cut off and that that removed I think a lot of the 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:06.597 economic incentive for kind of the wildcatting thing that Hollywood used to 00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:09.717 do more which is to really take you know take these chances 00:15:09.800 --> 00:15:12.837 on things you know like Hollywood used to work a lot like the venture capital 00:15:12.920 --> 00:15:16.317 model which is you know you you put 10 you know you put 10 lines in 00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:19.117 the water you get you know you get four bites and you get maybe one you know 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:22.197 grand slam. And and you know if it works like that's 00:15:22.280 --> 00:15:24.877 a spectacular model but you the grand slam has to be able to scale 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.437 economically in order for that that to happen and that's been cut off. So so so 00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:32.357 so that that that did not help and then and then there's the big thing 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:36.317 capital B capital G capital T the big thing that happened of course which is 00:15:36.400 --> 00:15:41.160 Hollywood being on the vanguard of culture got hit by 00:15:41.400 --> 00:15:46.477 the thing the cultural change of the last decade 00:15:46.560 --> 00:15:49.917 like incredibly hard and you know we've we've talked a lot about how tech you 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.637 know got hit by that incredibly hard and Hollywood got hit by it in a in a very 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.277 intense way. You know nobody's ever quite figured out 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:58.797 the right way to to talk about this to you know 00:15:58.880 --> 00:16:01.517 you know sometimes you say things like wokeness or or whatever 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.117 you know in the 60s they would have called it the new left. 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.837 There's actually a term is actually my my favorite term for it in Hollywood is 00:16:06.920 --> 00:16:09.517 there's a YouTube channel called Critical Drinker 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:14.397 where he's a he's a movie reviewer is quite funny and and the Critical 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.357 Drinker has been documenting basically the thing 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.797 that hit Hollywood and he and in in I would say in quite scathing terms 00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:25.717 this whole time. What he calls it is he calls it the message. 00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:29.157 And it's it's the message with a capital M and it's actually really funny cuz for a 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:32.517 long time people who watch the Critical Drinker he would never actually define 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.477 what the message was. You know he would basically just say you know this this 00:16:35.560 --> 00:16:39.717 this movie has been affected by the message right. And of course and you you 00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:41.717 guys are all laughing cuz of course you already know what the message was. 00:16:41.800 --> 00:16:44.277 Everybody knows what the message was right all white people are racist all 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:47.397 men are you know sexist you know everybody's a transphobe and you you 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.477 just go America's you know a force for evil in the world right and you just go 00:16:50.560 --> 00:16:53.637 like right down the list of like everything that you know everything that 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.357 you would expect you know from the last decade. 00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:00.037 You know America's you know in in a incipient fascist regime like it 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.037 just the the entire package you know basically you know like whatever's on 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.477 the front page of the New York Times that day right just the message. 00:17:06.560 --> 00:17:09.397 And so you know movies transformed themselves you know very large 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.157 percentage of movies that could have been great you know 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.637 you know in some alternate world could have been these these these these great 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:20.357 works of art just just basically became became in some form political propaganda. 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.797 Or or you could if you wanted to be more generous you could say that you know 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.757 those will be the lasting artifacts of this last decade right which is 00:17:26.840 --> 00:17:30.877 historians will look back and they'll be like holy you know holy lord like these 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.197 people were really like wrapped around the axle like a bunch of political 00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:36.397 issues like my my you know my goodness. 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.037 And so they got hit hard by that and then the other thing and then that that 00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:43.157 led to in Hollywood you know what can only be described as a reign of terror 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:46.797 which and this is something that occasionally Hollywood figures will talk 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.757 about this in public although very rarely cuz they're they you know it's 00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:52.797 it's a very sensitive topic still but you know if if you know people in 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.237 Hollywood you know basically it's through that through the especially the 00:17:55.320 --> 00:17:58.357 last you know eight years you know they they just they felt like if they made 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:02.237 one misstep on you know casting or on the 00:18:02.320 --> 00:18:07.117 details in the script or use of words or the themes of a movie or anything you 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.357 know they they just felt like they were in danger of just like a lightning 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.677 strike from you know from from you know from from the sky just like striking 00:18:12.760 --> 00:18:15.397 them dead on the spot like you know and they they they had like you know 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.077 everybody in Hollywood had like friends whose careers just got like completely 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:23.077 detonated you know at one point you know in one unpredictable way or another. And 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.677 again people have different opinions on this and you can argue it was it was 00:18:25.760 --> 00:18:28.797 long needed or whatever but like it it it became it became a thing and it like 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.237 it basically changed the process of like how projects were selected it changed 00:18:32.320 --> 00:18:36.237 the changed the process of you know of but who made projects it changed the 00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:39.317 process of staffing it changed the process of screenwriting it changed it 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.357 changed it changed it changed acting it it changed you know aesthetics it 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.557 changed like almost every aspect of of how these projects get executed. And and 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.317 I just go go through that because I think that that I think that's that's 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:52.917 changing again right now like if you talk to the same people in Hollywood 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.357 what they'll tell you basically is you know it's basically the end of this year 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.557 that the fever has broken and there's a bunch of indications for that and then 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.917 we're entering kind of the the sort of post sort of post message 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.837 you know kind of era. And you know we we don't know what era 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.077 we're heading into maybe there's a new message or something but like we're we're 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.197 there's a phase shift that's underway. 00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:15.237 But but that phase shift is going to take time because it takes time to make 00:19:15.320 --> 00:19:19.117 movies right. The movies that are greenlit today right are not going to 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:21.757 come out you know until like whatever 20 00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:25.517 it takes 2027 2028 soonest and so 00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:29.597 so we're in this like liminal period or this interstitial period where for the 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.637 next like three years we're going to get like a thousand movies that have like 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:38.237 the message and they're all going to act like the message is like brand new and 00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:41.037 fresh and nobody's ever heard it before cuz they you know they all pretend that 00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:44.917 this is like some big revelation that like all white people are racist right 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.957 again every movie and there's going to be like a thousand more of those in the 00:19:48.040 --> 00:19:51.437 next three years and they're just going to land like an absolute thud right like 00:19:51.520 --> 00:19:55.597 cuz it's just like if you wanted that message, you got it, right? If you 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:59.197 already saw a thousand movies to say you like the next thousand movies don't 00:19:59.280 --> 00:20:02.837 contribute to that, right? And and just just to knock on one and he's a 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.877 brilliant filmmaker, but I I just saw the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie one 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:07.597 battle after another and it like it's 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.037 literally like a time capsule. It's like 00:20:10.120 --> 00:20:13.437 a 2022 time capsule. It's literally like 00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:17.757 time frozen in 2022. And in 2022, this movie would have been 00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:21.557 like, "Oh my god, like this movie is like got the message, right? It's just 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:25.077 like everything about it. We could we could spend hours just on this movie. 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.917 And it lands today and you're just watching and you're just like, "Wow, 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.517 that was a weird time." Like, "Oh my goodness." Yeah, I want to I want to put 00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:35.117 more about this movie cuz I think it was Brett Easton Ellis who came out and was 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:38.797 the first person, you know, cuz it's getting all the Oscar platitudes like 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.637 oh, it's it's definitely in line for the Oscar, right? And he came out and he's 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.317 like, "It feels musty." Right? And I should get the actual like language he 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:48.317 used cuz it was much worse than that, but he said it's like a musty film. It's 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:51.997 exactly what you said. It's 2022. Like this was greenlit at a very different 00:20:52.080 --> 00:20:55.397 time and now it's come out and like the world's moved on. And so I'm I'm curious 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.277 like do you think that that that we're still going to pretend these movies are 00:20:59.360 --> 00:21:02.757 great even though they don't match with our time or is there going to be sort of 00:21:02.840 --> 00:21:05.997 a three-year period where we are allowed to say actually like that that doesn't 00:21:06.080 --> 00:21:09.517 make any sense anymore and like maybe that movie shouldn't have been made. 00:21:09.600 --> 00:21:12.517 Yeah, so this is it's a this one is a complicated this one is a complicated 00:21:12.600 --> 00:21:16.237 scenario. So just on the movie itself, the movie itself is actually and it's 00:21:16.320 --> 00:21:19.077 it's quite like I quite enjoyed watching it. 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:21.957 I quite enjoyed watching it and I just for ironic reasons, but it just also 00:21:22.040 --> 00:21:25.237 watching it of like how how this happened. Like and and there's 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:28.037 a bunch bunch of reasons. And again, the filmmakers one of the one of the you 00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:30.357 know, one of the great filmmakers of the era Paul Thomas Anderson, you know, he 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.677 made There Will Be Blood and he made, you know, 00:21:32.760 --> 00:21:34.717 Boogie Nights and like all these, you know, 00:21:34.800 --> 00:21:37.077 by the way, he made right there he named two movies Boogie Nights and There Will 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:39.877 Be Blood are two movies that are like in the in the they're going to be in the 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:42.557 Hall of Fame of the art form where it's like, you know, a hundred years from now 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.517 people are going to be like, "Wow, you know, that's what that culture was 00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:49.197 about." And so he he's he's he he is one of those guys and clearly that's what he 00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:52.117 was going for in this movie. It is a weird movie in that it's it's it's 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.837 partially based on a famous Thomas Pynchon novel called Vineland, 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:59.557 which is Thomas Pynchon's movie is Thomas Pynchon's novel basically 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.077 about the it's essentially I mean it's it's essentially veiled through 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:06.317 whatever, but it's basically like about the days of rage, 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.637 you know, the Brian Burrough book or the you know, the Weather Underground. You 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.717 know, basically the the violent social revolution, 00:22:11.800 --> 00:22:14.437 you know, basically from the far left in the '60s and and then sort of what 00:22:14.520 --> 00:22:16.477 happened in the aftermath of that. 00:22:16.560 --> 00:22:19.517 And so like that that's the theme of the novel, but it's very much a novel of and 00:22:19.600 --> 00:22:22.917 about the 1960s. It's not considered you know, most people don't consider it 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.677 maybe the the best Pynchon novel, but like it's it's a good mid-tier one and 00:22:25.760 --> 00:22:28.397 it's it's in the pantheon. And it it turns out to have been Paul Thomas 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:30.877 Anderson's favorite novel. He'd been trying to make a version of it for 20 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.437 years or whatever. And but what he did basically was he he kept the he kept the 00:22:34.520 --> 00:22:37.517 very basic kind of plot framework set up, but then he completely updated it 00:22:37.600 --> 00:22:43.197 for the message, right? And so like it has like specifically it 00:22:43.280 --> 00:22:46.037 has a whole bunch of like it has this whole basically it's a racial, you know, 00:22:46.120 --> 00:22:49.957 it has a whole racial kind of plot structure to the whole thing. And and 00:22:50.040 --> 00:22:53.637 and social in in ways that are fairly amazing. 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:58.317 That that are completely based on the current moment you know, circa 2022. 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.557 And so it's a little bit like the 1960s it's like the it's like the it's like 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:05.157 the it's like the early 2020s filtered through 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:10.117 the 1960s and so it's just a little bit odd with that. Arguably it is kind of 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.797 salient to our times cuz I think if you were to retitle the movie, you would 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:14.637 just title it Antifa the movie. 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:18.717 Like it's like it's like a full-throated celebration of basically violent social 00:23:18.800 --> 00:23:23.397 change. Violent social revolution like and it's it's completely unapol like 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.037 I'm going to spoil I'm going to spoil it. I'm just going to spoiler alert. 00:23:26.120 --> 00:23:28.517 Yeah, by the end Spoiler alert for moderating the situation. Everyone's 00:23:28.600 --> 00:23:32.637 already seen it here, so. So it's a 2-hour 45-minute movie that I 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.357 went by the way and I went to the theater and I paid full price and like I 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:37.677 smuggled in my snacks and like the whole thing. 00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:39.357 I go through the whole thing and I'm like hoping he's such a brilliant 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.077 filmmaker. I'm hoping it's a subversive movie, right? And so I'm kind of hoping 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.637 that the whole thing is like by the end he's like really like he's like, "Okay, 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.317 like these Weather Underground people who like went on the run for 20 years 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.557 and destroyed their lives and like, you know, we're we're always, you know, 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.237 basically you know, crazy privileged children like 00:23:52.320 --> 00:23:54.797 raging out against their you know, their basically their parents and blowing [__] 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.837 up and killing people and this whole thing was a giant mistake." And and I 00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:59.997 was kind of hoping that that would you know, that would be kind of the way that 00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:03.117 you could tell the story. No, no, no, he's just like, "Oh, no, that was great. 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:05.077 Like like that was fantastically good. 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.237 These people are amazing. Like they're they're these are the myths and legends 00:24:08.320 --> 00:24:11.117 of our time." He clearly wants to make these people into mythical figures. And 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.277 then at the end and then at the end it's just very clear that he's like, "Yes, 00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:16.117 and I completely endorse and support all of this. 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.797 And this is exactly what this is these are the role models that 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.797 children should have and it's fantastic." Right? And so you know, in a 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.357 this is one of those movies where in a perverse way maybe it maybe it stands 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.277 the test of time that way where it's just like, "Wow, these people had like 00:24:28.360 --> 00:24:31.557 these people have constructed a mythos, you know, by by by by by in which 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:35.197 violent robbery and like violent robbery and murder basically is great." 00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:38.557 Right? Like it's wonderful. Right? And so you know, 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.157 maybe that's you know, I don't know, maybe it's like reading Emma Goldman 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.677 Emma Goldman essays a century later or something it's just like, "Wow, these 00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:45.757 people kind of really got carried away." 00:24:45.840 --> 00:24:48.997 But like, you know, it's it's not what it could have been. Anyway, this this is 00:24:49.080 --> 00:24:52.237 the Okay, so so one is it's it's out of time. 00:24:52.320 --> 00:24:55.357 Although you know, hopefully it won't become more relevant. 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.197 And then the other is again that the business aspect of it which is you know, 00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:01.197 being a great filmmaker. This is the one that he got like the 00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:03.437 real budget for us. This is like a much bigger budget than any of the other 00:25:03.520 --> 00:25:06.197 movies that he's made. And with that he was you know, the cast 00:25:06.280 --> 00:25:09.117 is like just incredible. Like so it's you know, Leonardo DiCaprio and Sean 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:12.397 Penn and Benicio Del Toro and like all these amazing you know, actors and 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:16.197 actresses. But as a consequence, I don't have the numbers on top of my head, but 00:25:16.280 --> 00:25:18.797 you know, it it was estimated to cost something on the order of 200 million 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:20.997 dollars to make. And then it's it's more 00:25:21.080 --> 00:25:26.077 money on top of that for you know, for for advertising. 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:29.117 The the challenge and then you know, it's got Leo you 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:32.917 know, he's by the way, he's fantastic in it. Very entertaining, but 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.397 by the way, what I don't know, yeah, spoiler alert. One 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:39.637 of one of the things about the message it's got the message. So the Leo 00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:42.637 character that plays one of these basically he's a 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.197 bomber basically in hiding for like 18 years or whatever and he's got this 00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:48.997 daughter is the daughter of his his his his lover who's this was this you know, 00:25:49.080 --> 00:25:53.197 great like basically you know, violent revolutionary of the era. 00:25:53.280 --> 00:25:56.477 And they've been hiding for 18 years and he's like completely fried his brain 00:25:56.560 --> 00:25:58.957 like you know, drugs and alcohol. He's just like you know, he's completely 00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:01.557 blown out as a person. He spends the entire movie running around like in his 00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:04.717 bathrobe like you know, basically basically high. 00:26:04.800 --> 00:26:07.197 And if you actually watch the movie carefully all the way through it 00:26:07.280 --> 00:26:09.477 actually turns out nothing he actually does at any point in the plot ever 00:26:09.560 --> 00:26:13.197 actually matters. Like like he he plays no actual role in 00:26:13.280 --> 00:26:17.557 the plot. And so it's this like incredible performance and it's 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:21.837 incredibly it's incredibly you know, dynamic and entertaining performance. 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.197 The movie the movie's going to sell do well overseas as a result of that cuz 00:26:25.280 --> 00:26:27.797 people love Leo. But like again, it's consistent with the 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.717 message of of course the white male lead can have no actual role to play in the 00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:33.837 plot. Like it it you know, that's definitely not allowed. 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:36.637 Like in in the climax, he literally shows up at the end of the climax and 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.037 just like, "I'm here." And like it's like all over, right? You 00:26:41.120 --> 00:26:43.717 know, like everybody's dead. Like it's all it's just done. 00:26:43.800 --> 00:26:49.157 So so anyway, it's going to do reasonably well because because you know, because 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.117 it has Leo, but it's still going to lose like a hundred hundred twenty million 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.597 dollars or you know, the estimates that that I'm hearing which is you know, a 00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.917 pretty pretty big loss you know, for for for a movie like this. 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:00.477 The the the fear in Hollywood always is when there's when there's a movie that 00:27:00.560 --> 00:27:04.957 loses that much money you know, will the executive greenlight new original movies? 00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:07.997 And you know, so hopefully they do hopefully the lesson is drawn from this 00:27:08.080 --> 00:27:12.957 is you know, basically it's is is is the is the Brett Easton Ellis 00:27:13.040 --> 00:27:16.557 point which is the the what is what he said the fussiness or the um Musty. He 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:20.357 said it's a musty film. Musty mustiness, yeah. Hopefully the conclusion is don't 00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.917 make movies that are going to be musty when they're released, right? Like you 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:26.277 know, you you didn't have you know, you didn't have to greenlight the thousandth 00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:29.677 movie with the message in 2022. Like that was a choice. You know, so maybe 00:27:29.760 --> 00:27:32.877 don't do that anymore. You know, but but you know, but but but 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.357 maybe it's time to move on. Let me highlight the movie on the other side 00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.877 that I think is very underappreciated and I think has I 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.357 you can say maybe at best right now it's becoming a cult classic. It's just not 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:44.397 that big of a hit, but like I have hopes for it and I hope it becomes one of 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:47.197 these mythic movies which is Eddington. 00:27:47.280 --> 00:27:49.437 And let me let me start by asking have you guys both at this point seen 00:27:49.520 --> 00:27:54.157 Eddington? I haven't. I haven't. Okay, well you're you're in for a treat. So so 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:58.797 my opinion my opinion first opinion Eddington is the first capital A art art 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.677 great art movie I I I I feel like I've seen since Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 00:28:02.760 --> 00:28:06.197 and I I think it clears the bar. And I would start by saying it's not a perfect 00:28:06.280 --> 00:28:08.677 movie like you know, there you know, there there are things about it that I'm 00:28:08.760 --> 00:28:11.277 you know, I'm sure five years from now or whatever even the maker of the movie 00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:14.597 might look back and say you know, could have done things differently. So 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.957 but but it's like it's it's like it has the opposite of the musty 00:28:19.040 --> 00:28:22.597 feeling. It has the feeling of oh, I'm actually finally seeing on screen real 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:28.117 people again. Like finally. Like real people set in the real world 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:31.597 doing real things where you're just like, "Wow, like that that I'm actually 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:33.917 seeing the world that we've actually spent the last five years living in." 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.757 And it's the first movie like that that that that I've seen in a 00:28:36.840 --> 00:28:39.677 long time. And specifically it's the first movie and it's amazing that this 00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:42.677 is the case even with the time scales that we're talking about. It's the first 00:28:42.760 --> 00:28:45.557 movie in which like the George Floyd riots actually happened. 00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:49.477 It's the first movie in which COVID actually happened. 00:28:49.560 --> 00:28:54.357 It's the first movie in which social media actually happened. It's the first 00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.917 movie in which wokeness actually happened. 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.717 It's the first movie in which Trump actually happened. Like and it's 00:29:00.800 --> 00:29:02.797 actually and this is why I'm sort of having the reaction to the movie that 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.997 I'm having which is just like it's the only movie in which any of those things 00:29:07.080 --> 00:29:10.277 actually happened in the universe of the movie. Cuz like I don't know you tell 00:29:10.360 --> 00:29:13.037 unless I missed something like every other movie that's come out that's been 00:29:13.120 --> 00:29:16.717 significant over the last five years like it's as if none of that ever 00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:20.917 happened. And and and and my explanation for that is these are all the hot button 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.757 issues that if you screwed them up in in Hollywood, you got your career 00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:28.517 destroyed. Right? So if if you if you said the wrong thing about COVID 00:29:28.600 --> 00:29:31.517 lockdowns or vaccines, if you said the wrong thing about Trump, if you said the 00:29:31.600 --> 00:29:34.797 wrong thing about the Floyd riots, if you said the wrong thing about wokeness, 00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.317 like your career going to be obliterated. So we have like a 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:40.557 generation of creatives who basically just like got taught do not touch the 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:44.557 stove. And and the auteur the auteur who made Eddington, it's an auteur auteur 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.677 movie this guy uh Aster. He's this young auteur a very talented guy. He basically 00:29:48.760 --> 00:29:51.597 was like, "I'm just going to grab the stove with both hands 00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.717 and I'm just going to like hold on for dear life." And it's like a roller 00:29:54.800 --> 00:29:57.957 coaster ride through every crazy [__] thing that happened in the last 5 years, 00:29:58.040 --> 00:30:02.397 and I was just like howling with laughter. Let me put it this way, me and 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:03.797 the other four people in the theater who 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.797 were watching it were just like, "Wow!" 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.317 It's amazing. It's finally happening. 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.597 Other bright side of this, too, is that it's not unknown actors, right? It's 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:18.117 It's Joaquin Phoenix, Emma Stone. Um and and what's what's really interesting 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:21.597 about it, as you said, like there's most media or, you know, most most movies try 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:24.677 to kind of gloss over social media or things where it's like actually hard to 00:30:24.760 --> 00:30:26.997 depict it on a screen. Like there's nothing really interesting about looking 00:30:27.080 --> 00:30:31.237 at your phone. But like getting a COVID nostril test is actually like very 00:30:31.320 --> 00:30:34.757 funny. And I know like the trailer begins with like pulling up in this like 00:30:34.840 --> 00:30:38.597 old car, getting the nostril test. It's just like It's just like a funny thing. 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.997 And so it's like it's good that some of these more like absurd things that have 00:30:42.080 --> 00:30:45.397 happened in the last couple years, like they're actually very cinematic. And 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.677 they should be put on like they should be put like great filmmakers should be 00:30:48.760 --> 00:30:51.157 should showing them cuz they're so funny. 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.797 Yeah. So I'll do a couple again, I'm going to blow through the spoilers. 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:56.477 Yeah, so the the opening scene is Joaquin Phoenix Joaquin Phoenix plays 00:30:56.560 --> 00:31:00.517 this basically this crusty sheriff of this small town in New Mexico called Eddington. 00:31:00.600 --> 00:31:02.877 Which actually kind of reminds me of the town I grew up in. And and the the key 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:06.117 thing for the thing is Eddington, like there's just nothing in the town. Like 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:10.237 it's like 600 people. It's just like the streets are empty, the stores are empty. 00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:14.157 I mean, it's like a town that was empty before COVID, right? And then and then 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.477 the lockdowns hit and then it became even more desolate. There's nothing 00:31:17.560 --> 00:31:19.877 happening and you can just walk around and there's nobody there. 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:23.757 And so Joaquin Phoenix plays the sheriff who's like this crusty unreconstructed 00:31:23.840 --> 00:31:26.037 and he's not really a Trump supporter per se, but he's like this sort of 00:31:26.120 --> 00:31:28.877 crusty, you know, kind of traditionalist, you know, kind of kind 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:32.077 of guy. He's He's the kind of guy who just really does not want things to 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:35.717 change that much. Um and like everything is changing around him. And it starts It 00:31:35.800 --> 00:31:39.037 starts in It starts with COVID. It starts in like April of 2020. 00:31:39.120 --> 00:31:41.637 Um and he's sitting in this pickup truck in the middle of nowhere and he's like 00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:44.677 eating a sandwich or whatever. And the this other truck pulls up next to him 00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:48.357 and he sees these uh, you know, it's it's in New Mexico, so there's these 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.597 the town that he's in are adjacent to the these tribal lands. And so these two 00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.677 young tribal cops, you know, Native American cops pull up in a in a in a 00:31:54.760 --> 00:31:57.157 pickup truck next to him and they're like, you know, they're like young and, 00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.877 you know, let's say cooler than he is. 00:31:59.960 --> 00:32:03.357 Um and and they're they like they and they're both wearing their masks, right? 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.437 And and and literally they're like, "Roll down your window." And he rolls 00:32:05.520 --> 00:32:07.757 his window. And literally they're from their pickup truck into his, they're 00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:09.717 like, "You have to put your mask on." 00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:14.320 [Laughter] 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:16.757 And you know, it's like literally it was like for me 00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:20.477 it was like, you know, it was like you know, the heaven has opened, the angels 00:32:20.560 --> 00:32:24.197 are singing. I'm finally seeing a capital M movie. 00:32:24.280 --> 00:32:27.477 Like this and, you know, like he's a brilliant and so like he he gets across 00:32:27.560 --> 00:32:30.677 like in one look the feeling that I think we've all had for the last 5 00:32:30.760 --> 00:32:33.757 years, which is like like, "Fuck off." 00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:37.917 [__] It's the and that's just the opening scene and then it cascades through all 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.837 the COVID. And then it cascades through and then I'll, you know, spoiler alert 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:44.437 again, or spoiler, it cascades through the through the Floyd riots hit midway 00:32:44.520 --> 00:32:47.957 through the movie. And then all the and then, you know, the the um the of 00:32:48.040 --> 00:32:49.877 course, you know, the local high school's like you know, the local high 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:53.437 school's like 100% white. Um you know, it's New Mexico. And you 00:32:53.520 --> 00:32:56.957 know, and then the white kids basically become like obsessed with racial justice 00:32:57.040 --> 00:33:00.077 even though they literally don't I mean black 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.997 I mean, start like basically having like full-blown riots like, you know, in in 00:33:04.080 --> 00:33:07.797 in the main street and like breaking store windows, like crashing everything. 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:10.237 And there's one there's one black there's one black person in town who's 00:33:10.320 --> 00:33:13.397 the sheriff's deputy, who's Joaquin's deputy, who's a military vet. And he's 00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:17.917 just like, "What the hell?" He's like 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:21.637 like why why do I have to defend the grocery store 00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:25.997 from the white kids like trying to burn it down on my behalf? Like what the 00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:29.517 [__] Anyway, so so so the whole movie is like that. And then maybe maybe just 00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:32.157 one more thing about it is just hysterical. Eric, this is a good time 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:35.117 for you to take a drink of water cuz you're going to love this part. Um this 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:36.837 is a good for this fit take out. 00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:40.677 Pedro Pascal is in it. Um and at first you would think that Pedro Pascal plays 00:33:40.760 --> 00:33:43.877 the mayor. At first you're like, "Oh, this is going to be a clear setup uh 00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.757 where, you know, Joaquin Phoenix is like the retrograde right-winger and Pedro 00:33:46.840 --> 00:33:50.717 and you know, Pascal's like the voice of reason." It's like, "No, no." 00:33:50.800 --> 00:33:52.757 He's Gavin Newsom. Like I swear to God 00:33:52.840 --> 00:33:58.000 he's Gavin Newsom. Like 100% Pedro Pascal is playing him. 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.517 What what does he do? I I don't even want to like it's it's 00:34:01.600 --> 00:34:04.597 it's I don't even want to like I don't I'm not even intending to badmouth 00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:08.797 Gavin. I'm just saying like or or just every other politician, whatever is your 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:12.077 idea of a politician who's like Gavin Newsom, like Pedro Pascal Pedro Pascal 00:34:12.160 --> 00:34:16.677 plays him. And just like could not be looking down on the the the the the 00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.557 sheriff character with more contempt. Um like just absolutely just like, you 00:34:20.640 --> 00:34:22.837 know, and then and then vice versa. And then and then basically what happens is 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:26.357 that, you know, they they effectively So that that So the the the sheriff gets 00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:28.757 frustrated by the whole thing, the lockdowns and everything. And so he he 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:31.357 decides to run for mayor and so that it becomes a fight, you know, between the 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:33.877 two of them. Um Which by the way, it's just the 00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:36.317 beginning of the movie. Like it it then gets actually quite a bit more elaborate 00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:39.077 after that. Um but the big thing about 00:34:39.160 --> 00:34:43.397 it is it's just it's like a full it's just like an absolute full frontal 00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.397 examination from top to bottom. And and like it pulls in it it like Katherine 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.197 doesn't have It's interesting. It doesn't have a lot of like It doesn't 00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:52.077 have like a lot of on-screen graphics of like people on social media, but it does 00:34:52.160 --> 00:34:54.797 have this recurring thing, which again is just it's incredible how rare this is 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:57.637 in movies. Or maybe other filmmakers haven't figured out how to do it, which 00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:02.237 is these characters live in a world of social media. Um and so he does this 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:05.237 great like when a character in this movie wakes up, he rolls over and he 00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:08.877 checks his phone. Like like it's it's it's our it's our 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.917 world. And and he does I think a very good job of showing the interleaving 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.917 back and forth of how people are And again, this is like a, you know, town 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:16.277 rural town in the middle of nowhere. 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:18.997 People are living this, you know, this double life that that we all now live, 00:35:19.080 --> 00:35:21.477 which is we've got our in-person life and then we've got our online life and 00:35:21.560 --> 00:35:24.237 there's this, you know, question of which one is more real. 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.277 And and and this is the first movie I've seen that actually just And And it 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.997 doesn't incorporate that. Like it's not social media the movie, like that's not 00:35:30.080 --> 00:35:33.557 what the movie's about, but it's just kind of it just kind of shows naturally 00:35:33.640 --> 00:35:36.957 how the nature of reality has changed around that and then how it how how how 00:35:37.040 --> 00:35:38.717 it influences real world behavior. 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:41.117 Um as anyway, so I can't recommend it highly enough. 00:35:41.200 --> 00:35:45.237 >> Isn't Emma Stone's character like taken by conspiracy that she finds online or 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:48.717 like like what what is her her role in the movie? Yeah, well, so this is part 00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:52.037 of the So and and and and so at this point I'm like grabbing 00:35:52.120 --> 00:35:53.357 the stove with with both hands also. 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:55.997 Like she she plays like she plays like the 00:35:56.080 --> 00:36:00.917 upper middle class white woman who's just like racked with anxiety. And 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:03.757 and this is like the this is the plot arc. Like she's just like she's like 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.117 incredibly deeply unhappy. Um and so yeah, so she gets locked into like 00:36:08.200 --> 00:36:10.437 online conspiracies and then there's this whole thing. I don't even I don't 00:36:10.520 --> 00:36:12.877 even want to spoil the thing that happens with her cuz it's it's quite 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.197 it's quite something and it's quite a plot arc of its own. But you know, she 00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:20.597 she has her own her own kind of parallel life that kind of unfolds through this. 00:36:20.680 --> 00:36:23.717 And she's cuz she's Joaquin Phoenix's husband. And like and he loves her and 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:28.277 has absolutely no idea what She has absolutely no clue what's going on in 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.197 her head. Like he like married to her, he loves her. She's clearly extremely 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.677 depressed. She's clearly extremely anxious. He has no ability whatsoever to 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.157 understand her communication with her. 00:36:38.240 --> 00:36:40.477 And then her mom, you know, her mother, you know, her mother she's, you know, 00:36:40.560 --> 00:36:42.637 very close with her mother. Her mother keeps showing up, you know, lives in 00:36:42.720 --> 00:36:46.397 town, just and just [__] hates him and just is like scathing towards him. 00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:48.997 And he's like, "What you know, what's [__] I'm doing my best. I can't read 00:36:49.080 --> 00:36:51.757 her mind. Like I don't know what's going on." And so, you know, it's got that, 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.117 you know, it's it's got like a whole it's got like a whole it's got like a 00:36:54.200 --> 00:36:58.437 whole arc there. Um And then and then it's got another one 00:36:58.520 --> 00:37:02.197 more. It's got the There's there's the in the little in the little high school, 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:06.557 um there's a there's a a very attractive, you know, black black 00:37:06.640 --> 00:37:09.237 high school girl who basically like becomes like 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:12.517 completely committed to social justice um and it's going on and on. She's got 00:37:12.600 --> 00:37:13.717 like all the, you know, patriarchy. 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.117 She's got all the talking points. Like she's, you know, she's ready for her, 00:37:16.200 --> 00:37:19.917 you know, sociology degree. Um and and then all the all the like 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:23.597 boys and men like orbiting around her basically like become obsessed with like 00:37:23.680 --> 00:37:26.957 there's a there's a there's a white male high school kid who just like is 00:37:27.040 --> 00:37:30.117 like just generally oblivious and he he like has a thing for her. And so like he 00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:34.197 starts reading Angela Davis um like in an attempt to 00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:36.637 attempt to basically become attractive for 00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:41.717 um and and anyway, so like and he starts spouting off about white privilege and 00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:43.597 the whole thing. Does it work? 00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:48.197 Uh um Cuz that's always the question. 00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:50.277 It doesn't work. 00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:55.557 It doesn't It doesn't work. It doesn't work for the purposes that he it doesn't 00:37:55.640 --> 00:37:59.517 work for the purposes that he intends it for, but he he let's say he he 00:37:59.600 --> 00:38:02.837 ultimately yeah, he has a very successful, I would say, plot arc of his 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:07.197 own. Um yes, he he actually plays plays a major role in the in the end. He goes 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.357 on his own journey and plays a major role in the end of the movie. 00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:13.957 Um anyway, so it's just like it's one of these movies and, you know, people 00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:15.837 have like, you know, different critiques of it and it's a little bit of a, you 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:18.397 know, I don't know what they call it, like a shaky dog story where like as the 00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:22.037 movie goes, like increasingly crazy things are happening and and and things 00:38:22.120 --> 00:38:25.477 get kind of, you know, they they get kind of deranged in in in 00:38:25.560 --> 00:38:28.717 sort of a way that, you know, is is you know, you could argue is like truly 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.157 reflective of how deranged things got or you could say, you know, maybe he gets a 00:38:31.240 --> 00:38:36.037 little bit carried away, but like it's just it it directly it's it's it's such 00:38:36.120 --> 00:38:39.797 it's such a direct engagement with our times that that that and and to me it 00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:43.437 was just like, "Wow, I'm actually seeing on screen our world as opposed to these 00:38:43.520 --> 00:38:47.757 the sort of even this manufactured view of a world that doesn't exist or this sort of 00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:50.957 manicured view where these topics have just become untouchable." And so anyway, 00:38:51.040 --> 00:38:56.077 so my my hope is it's the beginning of a wave of Like there's so much material. 00:38:56.160 --> 00:38:58.677 You know, this is the old Tom Wolfe thing, which is like what did he Most 00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:01.677 Tom Wolfe's term He said, "What was it? The His term is 00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:04.477 the eight There's the eight There's the is the the beast with eight billion 00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:07.357 feet?" Or what was his term? Like the mass of humanity? He had this term where 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.477 he's like Like the Tom Wolfe always had this point of view, you know, the great 00:39:10.560 --> 00:39:12.917 novelist, journalist. The most interesting topic in the world is like 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:15.877 the human race, right? Like the the the collective behavior of eight billion 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.957 people on planet Earth is like the most interesting thing in the world. And like 00:39:19.040 --> 00:39:20.797 the eight billion people on planet Earth are always getting up to like the 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.197 craziest [__] And like if you want to like write great fiction He was always 00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:26.197 telling people who wanted to write fiction. He's like, "If you want to 00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:28.517 write great fiction, you want to go out and you want to be with the people and 00:39:28.600 --> 00:39:31.277 you want to actually observe what's happening. And it's so crazy that if you 00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:34.757 just like write it down, you know, that that's how you that's how you like write 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.277 the great American novel. Like that's what you do." And so he would famously 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.037 do this. And so when he did Bonfire of the Vanities, he immersed himself in 00:39:40.120 --> 00:39:42.917 Wall Street. And when he did Man in Full, he immersed himself in, you know, 00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:45.037 Atlanta real estate. And when he when he, you know, he did all the, you know, 00:39:45.120 --> 00:39:47.837 back back to blood, he immersed himself in the in the Miami, you know, the Miami 00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:51.317 culture and, you know, he he would go do this. And of course, you know, the his 00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:53.597 critique was, you know, the new generation novelists, they sit in their 00:39:53.680 --> 00:39:57.197 apartment in Brooklyn, you know, you know, you know, 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.717 with their typewriter, you know, and and and they they introspect, right? And and 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:03.397 that's why there's no more great American novels. And so, 00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:06.797 like Ari Aster is like the film he's like the filmmaker who got that I don't 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.397 know if he ever got, you know, read Thomas Wolfe or not, but like where he 00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:13.757 he he he understands that. He's like, oh, go immerse yourself in in in in in 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:17.437 what's actually happening in real life and trans like that. And he's he's he 00:40:17.520 --> 00:40:20.437 was, I don't know, uniquely able to do it, uniquely able to get away with it. 00:40:20.520 --> 00:40:23.157 I'm hoping he's the beginning of a wave of these. And you know, they don't you 00:40:23.240 --> 00:40:25.437 know, it doesn't all have to be about COVID or the Floyd riots or whatever. 00:40:25.520 --> 00:40:28.477 There's many, many other topics you could do. But like, you know, there 00:40:28.560 --> 00:40:32.237 should be a great there should be a great movie for every basically 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:34.597 significant social cultural thing that happens. 00:40:34.680 --> 00:40:37.837 And and and that and there's those opportunities are just laying all 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:40.357 there's like hundreds or thousands of those opportunities just laying on the 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:43.237 ground right now, you know, for for for the creatives who can go pick them up. 00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:45.917 And and again, by the way, every creative writing this 00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:49.477 hearing this is going to say, yeah, no no [__] But you know, will the 00:40:49.560 --> 00:40:51.277 studios greenlight it and pay for it? 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:54.477 And that's that would be my other hope, which is, you know, some combination of 00:40:54.560 --> 00:40:58.117 the bold executives at the streamers and at the at the at the studios. You know, 00:40:58.200 --> 00:41:00.597 example, you know, David David Ellison, you know, who's clearly very very, you 00:41:00.680 --> 00:41:02.837 know, brilliant guy, you know, taking over Paramount and maybe maybe buying 00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:06.117 more studios like, you know, guys like him are in a position to greenlight an 00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:09.117 entirely new generation of movie that could be both commercially successful 00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:11.877 and could be true art. Yeah. Yeah, no. So, I guess is it your 00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:14.517 view that like we'll have this like 5 to 00:41:14.600 --> 00:41:19.797 7 year window of musty films that people like kind of pretend are decent, but 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:22.277 then like we we kind of get the Addingtons as well where you're where 00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:25.717 you're going to see things open up again. So, we'll have this sort of like nice 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:29.477 period of weirdness. Like I actually think looking back 50 years from, you 00:41:29.560 --> 00:41:32.317 know, 50 years from today, it'll be fun to look back at these films and be like, 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.757 that was wild that that was what we were talking 00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:38.677 time. So, I but your your view is that that it is going to open up. That there 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.597 there will be more Addingtons. There'll be more extremes and it's not just going 00:41:41.680 --> 00:41:46.357 to be one battle after another kind of the message. 00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:50.437 Yeah, so just quickly one more thing about battle after another. So, the 00:41:50.520 --> 00:41:52.877 critics are rapturous about this movie. 00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:55.237 Right? And so, if you read Rotten Tomatoes, the critics are you know, it's 00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:57.957 like 98% or whatever. And the critics are just like, this is like the most 00:41:58.040 --> 00:42:00.837 brilliant movie of all time. This completely captures, you know, yes, this 00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:03.957 is like this is like the ultimate chronicling of like America's you know, 00:42:04.040 --> 00:42:07.077 descent into being, you know, the Fourth Reich. Like, you know, this is yes, this 00:42:07.160 --> 00:42:10.437 is like absolutely glorious, absolutely revolutionary. violence should be 00:42:10.520 --> 00:42:14.397 glorified. Like the the critics are like all in, right? And and and you know, the 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.517 movie critic community has like gone hard in on this just like, you know, 00:42:17.600 --> 00:42:20.277 just like so many other creative communities. And so, they're all in. By 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:22.517 the way, this movie I don't know if it's going to, but like it wouldn't be 00:42:22.600 --> 00:42:24.957 surprising if it sweeps the Oscars, right? It's just like, you know, the 00:42:25.040 --> 00:42:26.917 best the best the best movie ever made. 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.877 You know, I and and but but now it's going to just going to be like every 00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:32.917 everybody everybody everybody who has been up been through this, you know, 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:35.877 spin cycle for the last eight years is, you know, they people are onto it, you 00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:38.197 know, including the audience. And so and so I and I think even the people 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:41.557 participating in kind of what is already kind of an orgy of kind of hyper 00:42:41.640 --> 00:42:44.237 exaggerated critical admiration are probably all realizing that they're, you 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.957 know, fundamentally being dishonest. But um you know, like so so Catherine, your 00:42:48.040 --> 00:42:52.757 point like, yeah, that machine like the the the the sort of the message machine 00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.597 like that machine is continuing to spin for now. It's just very clear that like 00:42:55.680 --> 00:42:58.557 there's just like smoke and parts flying off of it. Like it's just like, you 00:42:58.640 --> 00:43:01.117 know, it is it is it is going to it is going to rattle to a stop. And then if 00:43:01.200 --> 00:43:04.477 you if you talk to people in Hollywood, basically what they'll tell you is by by 00:43:04.560 --> 00:43:07.197 the way, independent of people's politics, what the sort of I would say 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:10.717 sharp people in Hollywood generally all say is, yeah, the the cultural fever has 00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:14.317 broken. You can now make you can now get movies greenlit today that you could not 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:18.597 get greenlit two years ago. Specifically, and this this is amazing 00:43:18.680 --> 00:43:21.517 that this is good, but like you can have comedies again. 00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:25.637 Uh Like they actually say by the way, they 00:43:25.720 --> 00:43:29.117 say this. Like they're like, we we can now make comedies again. You can have 00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:32.037 funny movies. Right? Because to have funny movies, you 00:43:32.120 --> 00:43:35.237 need to poke a sacred cows, right? Like the thing that makes comedy funny is 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.797 like when it's when it's like subversive when it when it when it like, you know, 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.157 when it touches a nerve. Like that that's that's, you know, that's what the 00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:42.677 adult comedy is. And and you know, you just could not 00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:44.997 make a funny movie for the last eight years. Like it was impossible. It was 00:43:45.080 --> 00:43:48.117 way too risky. And and but what they're saying now is that you can. And then 00:43:48.200 --> 00:43:50.597 maybe the other single indicator, Catherine, of what's happening, which is 00:43:50.680 --> 00:43:53.757 Mel Gibson finally got greenlit to do his sequel to 00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:56.477 Passion of the Christ, which is the resurrection movie and which he's which 00:43:56.560 --> 00:43:59.477 he's making right now. At least my friends in Hollywood are like, yeah, 00:43:59.560 --> 00:44:02.237 that never would have happened. Like that never would have happened under a 00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:04.357 Kamala administration. That never would have happened without the election 00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:07.677 result. And again, these are not even people who are pro-Trump. It's just, 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:12.157 okay. Like the national mood is shifting. We're not 00:44:12.240 --> 00:44:16.357 Yes, Mel Gibson of all of all people being like one of the 00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:20.837 clearly great filmmakers of of our of our time. And you know, and having all 00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:24.597 of the issues that Mel Gibson has. Like, yes, that guy should get to make a movie. 00:44:24.680 --> 00:44:29.117 And specifically, that guy should get to make that movie. And I 00:44:29.200 --> 00:44:31.917 that's an example of what I'm talking about is that that's possible this year 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:35.317 in a way that it wasn't before. And the and the other thing that 00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:39.077 I think yesterday Young Washington came out, the the trailer, which Joel 00:44:39.160 --> 00:44:42.757 Shapiro, which again, is not Hollywood, it's based in Provo, but has proven that 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:46.637 they can make very successful films for a different pocket of the country that 00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:50.357 actually likes patriotism. But I think in some ways like the the Top Gun 00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:54.717 success story, yes, it's nostalgia, but like the fact that it did so well at the 00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:58.677 box office shows that there is an appetite for totally different content. 00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:03.197 Like 50% of the country would love to see movies that are patriotic or about 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:06.797 something, you know, a biopic in history that's really interesting about George 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:10.037 Washington. So, I think in some ways it's like there's there is sort of this 00:45:10.120 --> 00:45:13.317 business case too of wow, like you know, the 50% of the country that's 00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:16.837 been starved for the content they want will actually pay to go to the theater 00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:18.797 and maybe we should support them. 00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:22.837 Yeah. To that end, Mark, do do the do the executives appreciate the Rotten 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.077 Tomatoes phenomenon or just how distinct sort of the yeah, with the critics or 00:45:27.160 --> 00:45:30.277 even their own staff are from the actual audience? 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:32.797 Yeah, they so they they live it. They they live it. And so, like I said, like 00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.277 for the last eight years, it's basically been a reign of terror. Um because the 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.277 the these critics and and like who the the people these critics represent like 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:42.077 have have the power of life and death over people's careers. 00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:44.277 And then they know the critics kind of went nuts. But you know, this is the 00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:46.797 problem with, you know, there's not that much they can do about it, right? The 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.437 the critics the critics were able to succeed in their own field. Um you know, 00:45:50.520 --> 00:45:52.317 it's just like everything else that happened in media. The critics were able 00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:55.357 to succeed in their own field by kind of going arbitrarily wild. 00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.797 Um and then, you know, there was basically there was basically nothing 00:45:57.880 --> 00:45:59.877 that if you're a movie studio executive, there's really nothing you could do 00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:02.837 about it cuz, you know, what do you do about it if you if you ignore them, they 00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:05.197 you know, they attack you. If you engage with them, they attack you. If you 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.477 attack them, they attack you back. Um and so, you know, there's been very 00:46:08.560 --> 00:46:11.917 little to do. And then, you know, the critics are not Well, okay. So, so 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.637 that's been happening. And and you know, with and Hollywood like Silicon Valley 00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:17.517 and like every other industry, like there is insularity to it. 00:46:17.600 --> 00:46:20.277 And so, you know, this is a self-referential thing. And so, when you 00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.997 know, when the mood when when sort of opinion shapers, you know, move against 00:46:23.080 --> 00:46:26.357 you, you know, it it it becomes a it becomes a real problem. And and 00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:28.717 Hollywood, you know, people get fired, right? Like, you know, every studio 00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.117 executive kind of knows that at some point they're going to get fired. People 00:46:31.200 --> 00:46:33.357 get fired off of projects all the time. 00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:35.517 When people get fired, by the way, off of projects in Hollywood, like they may 00:46:35.600 --> 00:46:38.037 not, you know, they may not eat. They may not get another job for five, you 00:46:38.120 --> 00:46:39.997 know, for two years, for five years, or ever. 00:46:40.080 --> 00:46:43.837 Um and so, you know, it's it's it's a high-tension environment. Um 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:47.077 And so, yeah, that I think I think they don't understand that. By the way, I 00:46:47.160 --> 00:46:49.517 also think that, you know, especially the sort of, you know, the boomer 00:46:49.600 --> 00:46:51.837 executives, the Gen X executives, you know, they'll also tell you the same 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.237 thing you'll hear, you know, that you heard in the valley and in Washington 00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:57.037 and elsewhere, which is, wow, the young staff is really radicalized, right? And 00:46:57.120 --> 00:47:00.517 so, you know, so they're also afraid of their young staff. Um and then by the 00:47:00.600 --> 00:47:02.917 way, you know, they they're you know, these are mostly public companies. 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.517 They're also afraid of their boards. The boards are afraid of the public 00:47:05.600 --> 00:47:08.597 shareholders. You know, the public shareholders radicalized. And so, it's a 00:47:08.680 --> 00:47:12.117 it's a very similar phenomenon to what happened in tech. Um which is kind of 00:47:12.200 --> 00:47:16.597 this this sort of collective I don't know, like wildness or you know, kind of 00:47:16.680 --> 00:47:20.357 kind of you know, kind of this this this this intensity thing, you know, kind of 00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:23.197 happened. And and and then it really couldn't be openly discussed for a long 00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.997 time and probably still can't. Like they probably still really can't talk about 00:47:26.080 --> 00:47:28.317 it in public. A few of them are starting to, but like not really. So, for the 00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.277 most part, the conversations are kind of in the background. 00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:34.037 But again, but against that, it's just like, okay, that that's that's broken a 00:47:34.120 --> 00:47:37.757 bit. And part of it also is just the business the business you know, the kind 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:41.637 of business aspect of it. Which is I mean, the the the classic is, you know, 00:47:41.720 --> 00:47:43.717 the the big money maker in Hollywood for the last 20 years has been superhero 00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:47.437 movies. Um and and let's just say coincident with the beginning of the 00:47:47.520 --> 00:47:50.837 message is the all the you know, the results in those movies collapsed. 00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:53.837 Right? And so, and and and like at some point, you know, they they need to go 00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.077 sell some movie tickets. Like it it, you know, at some point they need to deliver 00:47:57.160 --> 00:48:00.517 revenue. And I and I I and I think they've gotten, I don't know, the 00:48:00.600 --> 00:48:04.157 message of the message, which is, you know, if if if if all you are is on 00:48:04.240 --> 00:48:05.677 board with the social trend, right? 00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.797 Especially, Catherine, your point, especially when that social trend gets 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.877 old and it's no longer, you know, au courant. Like 00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:14.597 you you can't run a public company based on on on reviews, right? It it like at 00:48:14.680 --> 00:48:17.277 some point, butts do have to show up in seats. 00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.037 And so, I I think that that's also kicked in. And so, the the financial 00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:21.197 pressures are very painful right now. 00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:23.837 They're probably not helpful. I don't know, the financial pressures in 00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:26.597 Hollywood are are it's hard to say cuz on the one hand, 00:48:26.680 --> 00:48:28.517 when there's financial pressures in Hollywood, of course, the argument is 00:48:28.600 --> 00:48:30.997 fewer movies get get greenlit. And then and then the executives become more 00:48:31.080 --> 00:48:33.877 risk-averse in the kinds of movies they're willing to greenlight. But I 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:37.597 think it also means that they are also less willing to greenlight projects that 00:48:37.680 --> 00:48:41.197 are being greenlit only for political reasons or only for social cultural 00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:43.477 reasons or only out of a sense of fear. 00:48:43.560 --> 00:48:46.757 And so, I don't know exactly how that balances, but hopefully 00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:50.037 hopefully things get more exciting. By the way, of course, the other big topic 00:48:50.120 --> 00:48:52.997 in Hollywood is AI. I was just going to ask 00:48:53.080 --> 00:48:57.677 Yeah, so that's the you know, that's the 800 lb thing. And you know, and and you 00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:59.637 know, to their credit, they're you know, they're saying they're they're highly 00:48:59.720 --> 00:49:03.517 aware of it. They're highly alert alert to it. And then by the way, there are a 00:49:03.600 --> 00:49:05.997 bunch of filmmakers, including some folks that I know, that are like super 00:49:06.080 --> 00:49:10.197 excited. And so, there there are including some like I know of like two 00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:14.357 like A triple A list like director filmmakers, you know, top end people who 00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:17.357 are like very excited about what's possible. And are going to are going to 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:20.237 fully embrace it. And there's there's a bunch of other people who are, you know, 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:24.317 very excited. And so, so there's going to be an embrace by at 00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:26.957 least part. But there's also there's also, you know, there's a lot of, you 00:49:27.040 --> 00:49:29.677 know, Hollywood has always had kind of a fear-driven irrationality to new 00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.597 technologies. And there's some of that. 00:49:32.680 --> 00:49:35.917 And then and then there is this attachment in in is is actually very 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.037 acute. There's this attachment of like AI politics to like woke politics. And 00:49:40.120 --> 00:49:44.197 so if if you're if you're still super woke, you're also like super anti-AI. 00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.117 Um and there are these like basically the it's basically like the woke 00:49:47.200 --> 00:49:49.397 activists have picked up AI as the new thing that they're going to agitate 00:49:49.480 --> 00:49:52.557 about. Um and so they're mounting basically already like pressure 00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:55.877 campaigns on the studios to like basically vow to never use AI. And at 00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:58.197 least so far the studios to their credit are like, "No, we're not going to do 00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:01.917 that." Um like we're we're we we we you know the studio So far I think the 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:04.437 studio executives have all been consistent, which is like, "Look, we've 00:50:04.520 --> 00:50:08.517 always used technology. Um you know the movie camera itself is technology. 00:50:08.600 --> 00:50:11.397 Special effects, like we've we've always used technology. 00:50:11.480 --> 00:50:14.677 You know, video tapes, DVDs, streaming, these are all technologies. Um you know, 00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:18.397 every movie has CGI. We you know like that's you know, one of my little fun 00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:21.357 facts about the history of movies is Tron Tron was the first There's a big 00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:22.997 sequel for Tron that's out this week. 00:50:23.080 --> 00:50:26.957 The original Tron was 1980 82 um from from Disney and it was the first movie 00:50:27.040 --> 00:50:30.357 that had integrated use of computer graphics, which was the the big thing at 00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:35.077 the time. Um and um and as a consequence of that, Tron was disqualified from the 00:50:35.160 --> 00:50:38.157 Oscars um because they cheated uh by using 00:50:38.240 --> 00:50:42.477 computer graphics. Right? Right? And so and so you know, to go from the that 00:50:42.560 --> 00:50:45.837 world to the world in which every movie has CGI and and for the most part you 00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:47.437 don't even know that there's CGI in it. 00:50:47.520 --> 00:50:49.957 You just see a romantic comedy and they're using CGI to do all kinds of 00:50:50.040 --> 00:50:51.957 things in it and you don't even notice and it's just taken completely for 00:50:52.040 --> 00:50:55.917 granted. And so like I I I I think the studios the studios I think understand 00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:57.597 that. I think they're going to they're going to actually embrace AI 00:50:57.680 --> 00:51:00.317 enthusiastically. But there's going to be this there's going to be this like 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:03.917 there at least there's an attempt to like gin up a moral panic around it 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:06.437 and try to you know, basically keep it out. And I I don't think it's going to 00:51:06.520 --> 00:51:10.037 work cuz I think the economics are too compelling. But but anyway, but then the 00:51:10.120 --> 00:51:12.597 other thing with AI is of course AI is going to be super helpful to existing 00:51:12.680 --> 00:51:15.397 filmmakers. But the other thing is AI for sure and we you know, we see this 00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:17.877 especially in this last last in this last couple weeks with the new version 00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:21.437 of Sora. Um and and a lot of these other new things that are coming out, AI is 00:51:21.520 --> 00:51:24.437 going to make a whole new kind of filmmaker 00:51:24.520 --> 00:51:26.117 possible to exist for the first time. 00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:28.557 Which is the filmmaker with no visual 00:51:28.640 --> 00:51:32.277 skill. Right? Or access to a set or to a 00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:35.277 camera or to actors, but with an idea. 00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:39.277 Um like you like people are going to be able to make you know, it's going to 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:41.797 start with shorts and animated things and so forth. But it's going to it's 00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:43.397 going to work its way up to full movies. 00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:47.517 Um and so you know, people with a people people who otherwise would be limited to 00:51:47.600 --> 00:51:52.037 only being novelists or being maybe people who do graphic novels. Um but are 00:51:52.120 --> 00:51:55.037 creative geniuses um are are going to be able to actually 00:51:55.120 --> 00:51:57.797 make full movies with AI and I and again I think I think that's a reason for like 00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:00.717 profound optimism. I think we're going to get like completely new kinds of you 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.557 know, basically film entertainment from people who otherwise never would would 00:52:03.640 --> 00:52:06.557 would have been able to to access the medium. And I and I think that also is 00:52:06.640 --> 00:52:10.637 I'm very positive on that. Can we add because you you brought it up 00:52:10.720 --> 00:52:15.597 um on comedy? I I know you saw an N or the the new Naked Gun film. What what 00:52:15.680 --> 00:52:17.637 were your thoughts on is comedy working? 00:52:17.720 --> 00:52:20.837 Is it is it does it have to be nostalgic for it to work? But maybe tell us a 00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:24.237 little bit about that film and and whether it's a a reason to be positive 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:27.277 on comedies in the future. Yeah, so I thought Naked Naked Gun I 00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:30.397 thought was actually a little bit of a minor miracle. Um so uh for a couple 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:33.557 couple reasons. So one is look, it's it's it's a sequel to movies from like 00:52:33.640 --> 00:52:36.757 40 years ago. Um and so you know, how many people even remember the original 00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:39.277 Naked Gun movies? It actually turns out a lot of people do. They're they're 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:42.557 beloved movies, but also it turns out like you can you you can make an Like 00:52:42.640 --> 00:52:44.957 it's it's great. It's it's great. It's a great comedy. It's like a fantastic 00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:48.557 comedy. It's very funny. Um uh it worked it worked. It worked 00:52:48.640 --> 00:52:51.557 commercially. It worked it worked artistically. It it it it it it honored 00:52:51.640 --> 00:52:55.477 the original material, but it was also like it was it was deliriously loopy in 00:52:55.560 --> 00:52:59.397 its own way. I highly recommend it. It's it's it's very funny. Um but it actually 00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:03.277 is striking to that point. Um it it it also like like anything it's also a 00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:06.837 post-message movie. Um and and and this is actually and 00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:09.117 maybe this is a reason for optimism, which is again if you go back through 00:53:09.200 --> 00:53:11.957 the time scale like that thing was greenlit no later than '22, probably in 00:53:12.040 --> 00:53:16.237 '21. So at the height of every movie has to have the message, um that that movie 00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:18.517 was still greenlit and it got all the way through and out the other side and 00:53:18.600 --> 00:53:22.277 there's not a trace of it in it. Um and so like it's it's a pure it's a pure 00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:25.037 comedy. It's a pure comedy. It's it's like the original movies. It's a pure 00:53:25.120 --> 00:53:28.397 comedy. It's a pure absurdist uh uh you know, kind of modern Three Stooges you 00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:31.357 know, kind of style comedy. Liam Neeson of course plays against plays against 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.557 type uh and is of course a brilliant comedian and and just kills it. And then 00:53:34.640 --> 00:53:39.157 Pamela Anderson um you know, the the great icon of you know, 1980s you know, 00:53:39.240 --> 00:53:42.557 femininity. Um you know, it's her big it's her big you 00:53:42.640 --> 00:53:46.037 know, starring role and she just like absolutely is just fantastic. Like she's 00:53:46.120 --> 00:53:50.077 just like absolutely kills it. She's hysterical. Um and she's just like and 00:53:50.160 --> 00:53:52.517 she's just like there as a person and like she's not you know, she's not 00:53:52.600 --> 00:53:55.197 wearing you know, she's just like you know, she's she's like you know, she's 00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:57.317 like just like full woman um in natural 00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:01.077 form. Um and is is it's it's great. Um 00:54:01.160 --> 00:54:05.597 and you know, and it's you know, it's like there's any there's there's there's no 00:54:05.680 --> 00:54:09.397 there's none of the casting let's say you know, aspects that kind of cause 00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:12.597 problems. Um you know, there's none of the script there's no script it's just 00:54:12.680 --> 00:54:15.357 it's just like an extremely well-executed like it very easily could 00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:18.437 have been made in 2012 or 2008 or 2002. 00:54:18.520 --> 00:54:22.677 Um now look, it it doesn't you know it doesn't move the artistic ball forward. 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:26.717 Right? It's a very well-executed example of a genre. Um but it but it is a movie 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:30.037 that it was it was somehow able to escape all of the traps that all of 00:54:30.120 --> 00:54:33.397 these other movies have gotten into. Um uh and and it was able to make it out 00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:35.837 and to be a big commercial hit. And and again I think I think the I think the 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:38.197 executives are are are very encouraged by that. 00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:40.157 Um the audience is still there for that. 00:54:40.240 --> 00:54:42.437 I'll just give you the it does it doesn't really have any like racial 00:54:42.520 --> 00:54:45.117 politics or whatever, but it does have it it it did have one thing, which is 00:54:45.200 --> 00:54:48.557 for people who haven't seen it, it was famously a movie originally that one of 00:54:48.640 --> 00:54:51.077 the one of the major stars of it was O.J. Simpson. 00:54:51.160 --> 00:54:54.837 Um playing a character named Nordberg um 00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:58.717 who got into all kinds of unlikely trouble. Um and um 00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:02.517 uh so they do this scene where just spoil one thing cuz it was it was 00:55:02.600 --> 00:55:06.277 extremely funny. Um Liam Neeson So Neeson Liam Neeson plays the son of the 00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:09.477 original you know, main main guy Leslie Nielsen in the movie. So Frank Frank 00:55:09.560 --> 00:55:13.797 Drebin and then and then Leslie Liam Neeson plays Frank Drebin Jr. And 00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:18.717 then uh and then Liam's sidekick plays the son of of of of of uh of Leslie 00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:21.477 Nielsen's sidekick in the original movie. And then and then there and then 00:55:21.560 --> 00:55:22.757 there's a young black guy on the team. 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.397 Um and and you know, normally in a movie it's like, "Okay, of course there's like 00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:27.997 a young black guy on the team." But then they do it they do it really well. Uh 00:55:28.080 --> 00:55:31.117 which is they've got the out in the out in the hallway of the police station in 00:55:31.200 --> 00:55:33.757 the movie, they've got Leslie Nielsen's photo up on the you know, he passed 00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.517 away. So they they got his photo up and and 00:55:36.600 --> 00:55:38.837 uh Liam Neeson does this thing where he like kneels down and he's like, "Oh, you 00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:41.597 know, father I'm trying to live up to your you know, expectation and trying to 00:55:41.680 --> 00:55:44.477 be a great police officer." and he's like sobbing. There's tears and you 00:55:44.560 --> 00:55:47.037 know, next to it is like his sidekick with the sidekick's photo and he's like, 00:55:47.120 --> 00:55:49.637 "Oh, father I miss you so much and I I want to be a great cop." And then 00:55:49.720 --> 00:55:52.157 there's you know, the the the the the black kid and he's looking up at a at a 00:55:52.240 --> 00:55:58.840 photo of O.J. Uh and he just and he just look at the camera and he just goes 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:08.637 Perfect. Perfection. Absolutely perfect. Yes. So yeah, 00:56:08.720 --> 00:56:11.957 comedies are good. By the way, let me put in a plug for one more movie. Um uh 00:56:12.040 --> 00:56:14.517 have either of you guys seen Fantastic Four? 00:56:14.600 --> 00:56:17.917 No. No. Probably not. Um Fantastic Four is 00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:22.797 the most pro-family movie uh in Hollywood since I can't even 00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:26.357 remember. Wow. Um uh Katherine in particular I think 00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:29.997 you'll be astonished. Yeah. It's incredible. When did it come out? 00:56:30.080 --> 00:56:33.197 What's that? When did it come out? It came out this summer. It came out this 00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:36.157 summer. It came out this summer and Marvel just for context it's it's one of 00:56:36.240 --> 00:56:38.997 the big Mar it's one of the new Marvel one of the new Marvel tentpole 00:56:39.080 --> 00:56:42.837 properties. Um and and the the Marvel the Marvel machine you know, did 00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.037 incredibly well from like Iron Man in 2008 through Avengers: Endgame in like 00:56:46.120 --> 00:56:50.117 whatever 2020. But for the last 5 years many of the big Marvel projects have 00:56:50.200 --> 00:56:53.157 have have not done well both the TV shows and the movies and and you know, 00:56:53.240 --> 00:56:55.757 you could again you could argue different reasons why, but like critical 00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:59.917 drinker would tell you it's because they became consumed by the message. Um 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.037 Fantastic Four is it's it's it's and you know, like it's like a you know, it's 00:57:03.120 --> 00:57:06.037 like a diverse cast. It's got it's got like a lot of of the the modern stuff in 00:57:06.120 --> 00:57:10.957 it. But however, Ann um it's like it's just like 100% pro-family. Um in like a 00:57:11.040 --> 00:57:12.757 very actually quite deep and moving way. 00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:16.077 Um and so it it again again it's just it's a little bit like, "Wow, they 00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:18.517 greenlit this this thing in 20" And and you know, maybe again maybe this is a 00:57:18.600 --> 00:57:20.797 reason for maybe I'm actually too too cynical. 00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:23.997 Maybe in 2022 they already real the filmmakers already realized what was 00:57:24.080 --> 00:57:27.397 happening. And so maybe they actually had like their own version of the 00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:29.637 underground movement where they're like, "All right, it's time to start planting 00:57:29.720 --> 00:57:32.797 the seeds for what is going to come out of this whole thing when when sort of 00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:36.597 the panic subsides um and and and you can say like Fantastic Four is like it's 00:57:36.680 --> 00:57:39.797 like a true audience-pleasing blockbuster from a studio that has been 00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:43.877 obsessed with the message. Um that comes out and doesn't have a trace of it in it 00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:48.437 at all. Um and um and and furthermore it's like it's like 100% about 00:57:48.520 --> 00:57:51.357 like I I wouldn't say it's like an it's not I mean it's a it's a superhero movie 00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:53.877 so it's not like a political. I wouldn't say it has like political content per 00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:57.677 se, but um it's like it's like 100% pro-family in a way that's very 00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:01.677 touching. Okay, we'll put it on the list. Um do you think Atlas Shrugged 00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:02.557 >> it. By the way, your kids will love it. 00:58:02.640 --> 00:58:05.037 Your kids will love it. I took my 10-year-old and like he was like yeah. 00:58:05.120 --> 00:58:07.517 Yeah. He doesn't he doesn't react emotionally to things, but he was like 00:58:07.600 --> 00:58:11.357 as close to crying in a movie as I've ever seen him. So Wow. Do you think 00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:14.437 Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead could could get made today? And do you think 00:58:14.520 --> 00:58:17.117 there'd be an audience for it? 00:58:17.200 --> 00:58:18.717 You know, it's funny. Yeah yeah. 00:58:18.800 --> 00:58:22.917 It's funny. Yeah. It's so funny. Especially Atlas Like 00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:26.317 Atlas Shrugged has become Atlas Shrugged is Atlas Shrugged you know, people don't 00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:28.757 know it's the sort of famous Ayn Rand novel. It it's kind of her most 00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:32.277 successful novel. Um it's it's the novel that basically it 00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:35.437 it it it it clearly is like a great mythic American novel. Like it it 00:58:35.520 --> 00:58:38.237 clearly it clearly plays that part that we were talking about earlier. 00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:41.557 You know, it's it's it is one of the great American novels. Um you know, it's 00:58:41.640 --> 00:58:44.437 it's of a time and place, which is sort of the you know, the sort of 1950s, but 00:58:44.520 --> 00:58:47.037 it it it it's written in a way that could be kind of deliberately timeless. 00:58:47.120 --> 00:58:49.117 It's it's it's actually kind of it's actually kind of interesting how it's 00:58:49.200 --> 00:58:51.917 written cuz it kind of it it it's like obsessed with railroads 00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:55.357 on the one hand, which makes it kind of look back to the 1800s. Um but it also 00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:58.037 it's also has like science fiction elements. And she kind of did that I 00:58:58.120 --> 00:59:01.117 think deliberately so that it would kind of have this timeless kind of 00:59:01.200 --> 00:59:04.197 She's really talking about the you know, some movie it's a novel as the great 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:08.717 novel. So it's a novel about people and the behavior of people. Um and so um but 00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:11.677 she does this thing where she kind of abstracts the specific content of it in 00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:13.757 order to kind of try to make it timeless. And I think I think it works 00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:17.557 quite well. Um and then The Fountainhead is is another version of that. The the 00:59:17.640 --> 00:59:21.597 Atlas Shrugged basically is about is about is about broadly is about it's 00:59:21.680 --> 00:59:24.197 about it's about it's about American dynamism. It's it's American dynamism in 00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:27.557 the movie. It's about industrialization and progress and science and going to 00:59:27.640 --> 00:59:31.597 the stars and like you know, achieving great things. Um and um you know, and 00:59:31.680 --> 00:59:33.997 and and the shape of society to do that. 00:59:34.080 --> 00:59:38.237 Um the Fountainhead is is is more about I would say artistic achievement um and 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:41.717 and artistic purity. Um uh and it's sort of similarly evocative. 00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:44.077 And so both of those novels are you know, high up on the list of novels that 00:59:44.160 --> 00:59:46.917 will be very influential, you know, in 100 years. Both of those novels have 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:50.077 been absolutely scathingly hated by every, you know, good cultural 00:59:50.160 --> 00:59:52.797 commentator and critic for the last, you know, basically since they came out. 00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:56.837 Like just And and and those novels are just attacked in like the most vicious 00:59:56.920 --> 01:00:01.197 possible terms. Um like absolutely um absolutely. Uh 01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:04.997 there was in fact famously famously uh Whittaker Chambers, the reformed 01:00:05.080 --> 01:00:08.117 communist, uh reviewed uh Atlas Shrugged for National Review when it came out in 01:00:08.200 --> 01:00:11.397 the 1950s and he you know, he basically called her a Nazi. 01:00:11.480 --> 01:00:14.757 Uh in National Review, Whittaker Chambers, who became this famous right-winger, 01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:17.717 basically calls Ayn Rand a Nazi. Ayn Rand, of course, being a Jewish refugee 01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:21.117 from Russia. Um he he said he said the novel quote has 01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:22.997 the whiff of the gas chamber about it. 01:00:23.080 --> 01:00:26.797 Right? And so like but by the way, it doesn't. But but 01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:31.317 anyway, very unfair unfair. Um but um 01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:34.837 but anyway, it's like the it's like your diversity of the Rotten Tomatoes scores 01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:38.117 of the of the critics versus the versus the audience. Like basically everybody 01:00:38.200 --> 01:00:40.677 who's read Atlas Shrugged like loves it. 01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:43.437 Um and everybody who's like criticized it for a living just [__] despises 01:00:43.520 --> 01:00:47.477 it. Right? Just like completely despises it. Um and so and and what's what's 01:00:47.560 --> 01:00:49.877 interesting about it and maybe this is the importance of the novel is to your 01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:52.437 question like that that that aspect of 01:00:52.520 --> 01:00:57.957 it has lives today. So like anybody today who anybody today who every time 01:00:58.040 --> 01:01:00.517 I've ever talked to anybody who's read Atlas Shrugged in the last 10 years and 01:01:00.600 --> 01:01:03.237 they're like, "Wow. It's like the novel about the world we live in." Like it's 01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:07.397 it's it's it's like, "Oh, I know that guy and I know that guy and I know that guy." 01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:09.237 And Eric knows what I'm talking about. 01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:13.157 Um they like these are all people, right? Like these are all people. These 01:01:13.240 --> 01:01:15.277 are all archetypes of people. We know who these people are. We know what 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:18.877 they're doing. And like it's just it's amazing how perceptive it is, you know, 01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:22.477 60 or 80 years later. Like how how how primal she made it that it has that 01:01:22.560 --> 01:01:25.597 relevance. Um it And by the way, it's tremendously entertaining and it's like 01:01:25.680 --> 01:01:28.277 this sprawling narrative and it's just incredible characters. And so yeah, it 01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:31.557 like it very clearly ought to be a three-part movie or you know, at a at a 01:01:31.640 --> 01:01:35.557 huge budget or ought it ought to be like an eight season, you know, 10 episode, 01:01:35.640 --> 01:01:37.757 80 episode total, you know, lavish HBO 01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:40.637 show or something. But like the cultural 01:01:40.720 --> 01:01:44.797 like the cultural overlay of that like what it would take in Hollywood to do 01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.797 that and the the level of attack that you would come under, 01:01:47.880 --> 01:01:50.317 the level of savagery that you would encounter if you're the executive or the 01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:52.917 actor or whatever. I mean, it would it would be every bit as intense today as 01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:54.997 it was in 1950s when the novel came out. 01:01:55.080 --> 01:01:58.877 And so like like that would be the great like that would be the indication like 01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:00.637 we're in a like really different world. 01:02:00.720 --> 01:02:03.277 I've I've talked to some folks in Hollywood about it. They they they all 01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:05.837 know it. They all understand this. They all know the novel. They're you know, 01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:08.557 they're all very familiar with it. They all, by the way, love the idea of of of 01:02:08.640 --> 01:02:11.677 doing things that have pre-existing brands and audiences built in. 01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:14.757 Um you know, because that that really reduces the risk. But like they if you 01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:18.557 really talk about it, they it's a little bit like a hot stove, you know, step 01:02:18.640 --> 01:02:21.197 away. And by the way, and again, it's very striking that a novel from like 01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:24.597 whatever 1953 can still be generating a hot stove 01:02:24.680 --> 01:02:27.837 reaction in 2025. You know, it's pretty amazing. 01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:30.637 And and the flip side of that is because it's such a cult classic that people 01:02:30.720 --> 01:02:33.797 would come out in droves. Like it would you know, it would it would make a lot 01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:36.677 of noise in a good way. It would be the it would be the Silicon Valley version 01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:40.197 of the Minecraft movie. Right? Like it would just be like, "Yep, we're all 01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:43.437 going." Yeah. Um but uh you know, I mean I don't know. 01:02:43.520 --> 01:02:46.117 Maybe maybe that maybe it's not a big enough audience or whatever to to to you 01:02:46.200 --> 01:02:49.037 know, maybe maybe that's not a big enough cult classic thing. But like it 01:02:49.120 --> 01:02:51.317 By the way, it sells. Like the it you know, it's one of the best-selling 01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:54.437 novels of all time. It sells, you know, enormously well today. It sold well 01:02:54.520 --> 01:02:57.917 basically since it came out. Um you know, it's it's it sells it sells far 01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.277 better you know, I mean, it's one of these things. It sells it all sells far 01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:03.317 more copies this year than any well-reviewed novel you know, that the 01:03:03.400 --> 01:03:06.277 New York Times book review talks about, right? And so and and yet it is just 01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:09.997 like it is so completely politically unacceptable that it's like off the map. 01:03:10.080 --> 01:03:12.597 Um yeah, so that that would be the ultimate test. I I would love to see it 01:03:12.680 --> 01:03:16.757 happen. I I yeah, I I don't know. And by the way, this may maybe maybe the answer 01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:19.877 here maybe this is the AI, right? Maybe the answer here is AI. 01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:22.197 Uh maybe what we need is AI system where you feed the novel in and it makes the 01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:25.637 movie. Um you know, which By the way, for sure you know, now that 01:03:25.720 --> 01:03:27.637 I say that like for sure that's going to happen. 01:03:27.720 --> 01:03:30.517 Um and so you know, maybe that's actually the answer. 01:03:30.600 --> 01:03:34.997 Yeah. Yeah, we were laughing offline about how someone 01:03:35.080 --> 01:03:37.917 was using Sora to make like a something that we thought was better 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:41.837 than South Park. And and so it'll be interesting to see if a whole new crop 01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:45.397 of filmmaker sort of you know, democratizes the 01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:48.037 industry a little bit that's not just Hollywood, but it's people, you know, 01:03:48.120 --> 01:03:51.117 from all over and and studios don't have this sort of 01:03:51.200 --> 01:03:54.277 you know, monopoly over over creation of of high quality stuff. So yeah, we'll 01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:57.557 see. Yeah, so South Park actually let's let's let's close up closing this 01:03:57.640 --> 01:04:01.237 briefly South Park. South Park was very much like what you're saying with AI 01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:04.757 film making right now, but in 1990 19 1993. So I remember when South Park 01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:07.917 original South Park came out, the original South Park came out in 1993 and 01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:11.197 it was significant. It was the first internet viral video ever. 01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:14.397 Um it was the first video and this was like pre-streaming, pre-YouTube, pre you 01:04:14.480 --> 01:04:17.317 know, years before all of that. And so it literally distributed at the time as 01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:19.997 a it was a literally a it was a QuickTime movie. 01:04:20.080 --> 01:04:23.717 Um uh it was a Apple's QuickTime video format. Um and it was a downloadable 01:04:23.800 --> 01:04:25.837 thing. And like if you wanted to download it on a modem, you had to like 01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:28.117 leave the modem on for like an hour or something to download this thing. And 01:04:28.200 --> 01:04:32.037 what and what it was was it was a it was a digital scan of a um 01:04:32.120 --> 01:04:35.757 of a video Christmas card. So there was a an executive in Hollywood at the time 01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:38.357 that wanted to make his friends a special kind of Christmas card. And so 01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:41.757 he hired these two basically scrappy young, you know, basically film students 01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:44.557 Matt Stone and Trey Parker, who had no credits and you know, they were just you 01:04:44.640 --> 01:04:46.197 know, kids and hadn't done anything yet. 01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:48.957 And he hired them to And he basically said, "Make the most offensive basically 01:04:49.040 --> 01:04:52.557 like three-minute video Christmas card you can possibly imagine." And so and 01:04:52.640 --> 01:04:54.757 and what these what these kids do is it's like it was the technology at the 01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:57.717 time. What they did was they camcorders digital camcorders digital camcorders 01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:01.197 were brand new. So they used digital camcorder and then but then then they 01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:04.037 did stop they did stop motion they had no money. So they did stop motion 01:05:04.120 --> 01:05:07.837 animation using little cardboard using literally construction paper uh 01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:09.917 characters. And so the reason the characters look like they do is cuz 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:12.597 literally in the original thing they were cut out of construction paper. And 01:05:12.680 --> 01:05:15.757 they were literally moved by hand frame to frame. And then and then and then the 01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:17.517 two kids did did did the voice overs. 01:05:17.600 --> 01:05:19.917 But it was from the very beginning it was the same characters Cartman and Kyle 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.117 and Stan and Kenny. Right? And and and and and in in South Park, which is the 01:05:24.200 --> 01:05:27.357 town that these kids grew up in. Um and then it was a three-minute Christmas 01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:32.397 card and it was it was uh Santa Claus versus Jesus. Um and and and and Santa 01:05:32.480 --> 01:05:35.717 Claus versus Jesus ended up in a in a full kung fu fight, 01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:38.557 you know, complete with like blood and like body parts. 01:05:38.640 --> 01:05:41.477 Right? And so it was like this it was like, you know, massively it was 01:05:41.560 --> 01:05:43.157 intended to be like massively offensive. 01:05:43.240 --> 01:05:46.517 But it was like it was like really it was it was really funny. And so somebody 01:05:46.600 --> 01:05:49.997 got it and literally it was sent out on videotape. Right? Uh it was a 01:05:50.080 --> 01:05:52.757 pre-pre-DVD, right? So it was sent out on videotape and somebody actually 01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:55.437 scanned the videotape, which is actually hard to do. And then it it went super 01:05:55.520 --> 01:05:57.357 viral on the internet uh and became big. 01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:00.357 And so it's an example of you know, that that that everything I just described 01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:04.197 the camcorder. Like that that was the the AI of its time. It let these kids 01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:07.477 who had no access or no knowledge even necessarily of like traditional 01:06:07.560 --> 01:06:09.717 animation production methods to do this. 01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:13.157 Um by the way, when those kids actually then got their their they they then 01:06:13.240 --> 01:06:15.717 actually, you know, South Park's like a full studio now. You know, it's been 01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:17.517 tremendously financially successful. 01:06:17.600 --> 01:06:19.597 They they now have a complete state-of-the-art studio production 01:06:19.680 --> 01:06:22.997 facility. And what they've used it for is they've used it to hyper-optimize 01:06:23.080 --> 01:06:26.357 computer models of the optimal recreation of the aesthetics of the 01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:29.557 construction paper. And so if you watch South Park episodes 01:06:29.640 --> 01:06:32.597 today, you see actually the characters have there's actually a depth to the 01:06:32.680 --> 01:06:35.477 animation that shows the layers of the construction paper. And it's all 01:06:35.560 --> 01:06:38.037 produced digitally today. But like they've used state-of-the-art digital 01:06:38.120 --> 01:06:40.557 tools to re- to to to reconstruct the 01:06:40.640 --> 01:06:42.277 physics of construction paper. 01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:45.197 Um you know, you know, 30 years later. 01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:48.157 Um and so yeah, so so they were able to do that. And then obviously, you know, 01:06:48.240 --> 01:06:51.717 they were maybe the maybe the most successful like animation duo 01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:54.797 of the last 30 years. And yeah, I think that the AI thing is we're we're right 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:58.237 on the tipping point um of that. And and your point like maybe maybe we actually 01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:01.997 just saw the first one. It's it's it's so um let's say toxic that it's hard to 01:07:02.080 --> 01:07:03.197 recommend that people watch it. 01:07:03.280 --> 01:07:04.917 >> Yeah, yeah, we will. Um 01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:08.117 but um it is it it is it is a it's for 01:07:08.200 --> 01:07:12.317 sure a South Park caliber level thing created in AI by somebody who didn't use 01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:15.597 any of traditional, you know, they didn't use any they had they didn't use 01:07:15.680 --> 01:07:18.517 any of traditional, you know, techniques to use for animating anything. Uh it was 01:07:18.600 --> 01:07:21.277 created entirely with Sora uh scene by scene. 01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:25.757 Um and yeah, it's it just as a as a as a as a demonstration of technology, it's 01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:28.637 just it's obvious that that moment has now arrived. I I 01:07:28.720 --> 01:07:30.997 And your point, Eric, like I do think for example, I I think there's now 01:07:31.080 --> 01:07:33.557 actually a new form of political propaganda 01:07:33.640 --> 01:07:35.757 uh at loose in the world, which is you know, that basically the custom 01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:39.317 produced, you know, basically South Park-ish, you know, kind of you know, 01:07:39.400 --> 01:07:43.757 video series. And and AI is going to make that so easy for people to do. The 01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:46.197 the you're going to be able to do you know, anybody in any you know, any 01:07:46.280 --> 01:07:48.597 electoral race is going to be able to hire some kid to you know, to to to do 01:07:48.680 --> 01:07:51.077 things like this. Um and so it's going to be like this it's like I don't know, 01:07:51.160 --> 01:07:54.557 decentralize satire or something like that. And so yeah, the the the the 01:07:54.640 --> 01:07:56.997 moment has arrived. They they're off to the races again. 01:07:57.080 --> 01:07:59.717 On that note, we got to let you go. 01:07:59.800 --> 01:08:02.277 Um but this has been a fantastic episode of Monitoring the Situation. Thanks so 01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:03.837 much for coming on, Mark. All right. 01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:07.360 Fantastic. Situation Monitor.