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- The following is a conversation
with Khabib Nurmagomedov,

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one of the greatest fighters
of all time, who retired from the

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UFC undefeated with a perfect twenty-nine
and O record. It was a huge honor for me

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to meet him, to train together,
and to have this deep conversation.

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We had this conversation
entirely in Russian.

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This was my first time
doing so on this podcast.

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And even these words I'm saying
right now are spoken in Russian.

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So if you're hearing me in English,
you're actually listening to the

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English dub. On YouTube,
you can switch between language audio

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tracks by clicking the settings
gear icon, then clicking

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audio track, and then selecting
the language you prefer.

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For the original Russian
version, select Russian. And

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for the English dub, select English.
Subtitles are also available in both

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languages.

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The translation and dubbing
are a collaborative effort of

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translators, real human beings,
including myself and AI.

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Thanks to the incredible team
at ElevenLabs for their help.

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And now, please allow me to take
this moment to say thank you

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from the bottom of my heart for your
love and support all these years.

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I love you all. This is the Lex
Fridman Podcast. And now, dear friends,

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here's Khabib Nurmagomedov. Let's try
in Russian if we can, like you suggested.

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- I can help you out if you need.

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- Yeah, thanks, brother. I kind
of feel it in my heart and soul, but

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sometimes I can't find the right words.

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- I know, brother. We got this.

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- Great. Let's start from the beginning.
So that gym back in Dagestan where you

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trained is legendary
for its spartan conditions.

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There was just one shower
for seventy people, only cold

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water. And yet,
this humble little gym managed

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to raise more than twenty world champions,
including several UFC champions.

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Can you try to explain or maybe reflect on

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what factors in that gym, those
training sessions, that life in

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Dagestan created so many champions?

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- Sure. So we're talking about the gym,
the one located in Makhachkala.

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And Makhachkala, for the people
who don't know, it's the capital of

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Dagestan. This was back around
the years from two thousand to two

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thousand and ten, and even
later on. In twenty nineteen,

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we opened up a big gym,
a major facility that is still

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functioning to this day.
But before twenty nineteen,

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we all actually trained in that
gym where there was practically

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nothing. It was just a school
gym with nothing but mats, a

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single punching bag, one climbing rope,
and a kind of indoor basketball court.

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And if we go even further back,
before two thousand, before we moved to

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Makhachkala, we lived in a village.

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In the village, we had a gym
right inside our house. My father,

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he built a gym at home, and he was
training all the local village kids right

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there.

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And there were times back when I
was a child, let's say when I was

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maybe six or seven years old, I would
occasionally wake up to the sound of,

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people training, doing their
drills right there in the gym.

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You know, like with judo or freestyle
when they're drilling, one guy throwing

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another. Those are my first
conscious memories. I was maybe

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five, six, seven years old
at that time. So my father

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set up this gym in the village
and trained local kids, including

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me, my older brother, and all
our close and distant relatives,

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anyone who wanted to come.
A lot of kids came to him.

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- So you would wake up
and there are these sounds.

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- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You hear
the hitting, the throwing over and

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over. And my father's voice,
how he's shouting, giving

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instructions, pushing someone,
coaching, teaching. I

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lived with those sounds.
But that was in the village. And later

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when we moved to Makhachkala,

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well, you couldn't say the gym
there was wow either. There were

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only mats. And of course,
the most valuable thing an athlete

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can have, a coach, my father.
So he trained us there.

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And to be honest, let's say, until I

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became a champion and had
big success, we never had a

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good big gym where we could, you know,

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all take a shower together
at the same time after training.

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We always had just one shower
for everyone, no proper amenities.

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- So your life story began
in the mountains of Dagestan in

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Sildi, then Kirovaul,
and then Makhachkala.

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And in all these situations,
there are very interesting stories. But

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one of the things I heard you say is that
the best results are born out of the worst

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conditions. What can you say about that?

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Philosophically, is it correct to say
that comfort is kind of the enemy for

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champions?

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- It depends on the sport. For example,
let's say in football, you have to

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have conditions. You can't really
play if there is practically no

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field. Of course, you can play
in the dirt, and it happens sometimes. You

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can start there. But when you are ten
or twelve years old, you already have to

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be at a certain level. You must have
conditions. But if we look at our sport,

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then what is the most
important thing? The coach.

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You also need sparring partners who will

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push you in the gym, as they
say, right? And you need the

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mats. Our sport is not expensive.
You just buy your

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wrestling shoes, singlets,
shorts, a T-shirt. And

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if there's a mat, you wrestle,
you become a champion, you fight.

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But when you live too well,
let's say, you know, you're never

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in need. For example,
you were born into a wealthy family

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and you already have everything.

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Would that same wealthy father,
would he force you to do such a brutal

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sport? A sport where you come
home every day with injuries

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where you come home with an exhausted
body, you come home with bruises.

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Would he really do that? That's
the question. And the kid himself, who

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lives a life of luxury,
would he even want to do this?

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When we look at it statistically,
the answer is no. This

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is where you need that hunger. You have
to be in a position where you are truly

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in need.

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- And it's interesting that there's
a psychological side to this as

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well, that you need a tough
situation to create champions.

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But what's really interesting is how
Dagestan has produced so many wrestling

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champions. You mentioned football.
Let's look at other

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countries. Why has Brazil produced
so many great football players?

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Why does Argentina have so many
football players? Of course, you have

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Germany, France, and all that.

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- European, yeah.

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- The whole European side. But those
are completely different cultures.

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- Yes. Well, in Brazil, their strength
is in their numbers. How many people do

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they have? The population is huge,
more than two hundred million.

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And people really love it there.
It's a huge tradition. Because, you

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know, without a real love for this sport,
you can never achieve any

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success. You truly have to love
what you are doing. So they have the

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tradition and they have the love for it,
and that is why they play for all the

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top clubs. Well, I think
they just win by numbers.

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- Yeah, that's a powerful aspect
of their culture. How much people,

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how much the whole nation loves to play
football. And if you add to that a

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system that creates strong teams, that's
how you can produce so many football

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legends.

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- Yes. Take Dagestan, for example.
We love football. I just know how much

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people in Dagestan love football. Yes, we
have wrestlers, fighters. There are many

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of us. But for football players, there
is no ecosystem like that. Not so well

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organized where a kid can,
for example, play at school, then go to

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some academy, then get noticed there,
and then get picked up by a club. We don't

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have that system. It's just
kids running on the streets,

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playing on the streets,
following football.

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Let's say playing on PlayStation.

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There is no system. There is no
selection process where kids can go and

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show themselves, so they can be
noticed and get signed. I think

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Brazil and other countries,
and of course Europe, they have it.

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So yeah, we have big problems
with football. However, in our sports

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where you can, where you can wrestle,
where you can fight, in that sense, we

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have a system. For example, the gyms,
you know, in Makhachkala, let's say

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for combat sports.
I'm not even counting like freestyle

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wrestling or other styles.
There may be forty or fifty gyms for

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combat sports, and all are full.
If you win in Dagestan, you move on to

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the North Caucasus level, then to the
Russian nationals. If you're champion

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of Russia, you go to the Worlds.
In amateurs, they notice you and

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you make a name for yourself.
There is a certain ladder here.

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But in many other sports here
in Dagestan, we don't have such a

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well-structured ladder
for people to climb.

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- Can we look at this
philosophically again? I mean,

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you've seen so many wrestlers, fighters.
Why exactly were these gyms creating so

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many champions? I'm just
honestly curious because it's rare

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in any sport, one gym or a small number
of gyms creating so many champions.

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- Well, first important factor is the
competition level is incredibly high.

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You come to the gym, and in every
spot you have good wrestlers,

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ten or fifteen guys right there,
and the coaches are great.

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You know, it so happened that my
father broke through in the media,

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and then I became a champion,
and the other guys became champions too.

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And my father's philosophy, it really
resonated, and he became known for it.

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But there are coaches in Dagestan
that not many people know

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about. They are known
locally, but they are

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very good, and actually they
have the knowledge, they have the

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approach, they have the philosophy.

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They could also be at the same level
as my father was. I believe there

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are really quite a few of them.
In terms of the coaching, I think

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Dagestan was extremely lucky.
It probably goes back to the

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nineteen fifties when wrestling
really took off here, starting

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with Ali Aliyev, our legendary
wrestler, a five-time world champion

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who went to the Olympics three times.
That's where it started, with his

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generation. There was Zagalav
Abdulbekov, Ali Aliyev.

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Those are the well-known names. I mean,
those guys are famous, but there were

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so many other less known
wrestlers who later on, after they

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retired, they all became great coaches
themselves. And these coaches, they

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raised a very large number
of guys who are really good at

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wrestling. And then some
of those coaches, they kind of

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switched over to fighting, let's say to

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grappling, to MMA, and they
started coaching in combat Sambo

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as well. And it just kept going like
that, you know. It was moving forward

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step by step. And so we have
a huge number of really great

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coaches. I believe this is one
of the single most important keys

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to the success of Dagestani wrestlers and
fighters, the coaching staff of Dagestan.

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- Is it more about technique
or is it really just about serious,

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incredibly hard work?

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- Well, you have to look
at the traditions,

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because generally it's just the way it is

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in Dagestan. Everyone wrestles.
Everyone fights. It's part of

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our culture. You know yourself,
fighting is like fifty percent wrestling.

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Every parent wants their children
to wrestle, to be physically strong.

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Our approach to kids
is that a child must be strong.

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They must be able to stand
up for themselves, for their

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family. It's something
that has traditionally always

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been in every single one of our clans,
every family, every village.

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It's just in our blood.

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- I mean, it's worth pointing out,
and you've actually written about this,

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that this isn't just a recent thing.
It's been going on for hundreds of years.

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- Yes, that's right.
These lands, Dagestan specifically,

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have seen powerful armies sweep
through time and time again.

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Because of that, people here have
always had to fight to survive.

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- Refusing to back down, refusing to give
up their land or lose their identity.

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- Their homes, their villages,
yeah, their families, and land.

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If we look back a thousand years
in history, maybe fifteen hundred years,

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there was the Khazar Khaganate,
the Arabic Caliphate, then

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the Iranian Empire,
or the Persian Empire, I should say.

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Then the Russian Empire,
Timur passed through

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there, the Mongols.
And if we look at the geographical

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location of Dagestan,
for those who don't know, the

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Caucasus range runs across
the whole region like a wall, and

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then it slopes down right
where the Caspian lowlands are.

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So you've got the sea on the right,
the mountains on the left, and the

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Caspian lowlands right here. And there was
a city there that's still standing today.

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It's one of the oldest cities
in the world, not just in Russia. It's

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Derbent. It used to be called Babul Abwab.

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It means the gate of gates.
Very major trade routes

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went through there. Very large
armies passed through, and it

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was bound to leave a mark on the people.

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we have so many languages,
more than thirty different languages, and

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people just don't understand each other.

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Take Islam and me.
We have different languages,

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come from different backgrounds.

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Islam is Lak, and I'm Avar.
When we talk, it's not like

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it's a dialect. We don't
understand each other at all.

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But since Islam has been with us
for nearly twenty-five years,

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he actually picked up
some Avar over time. But

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anyway, the deep history
of the region, it all left

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its mark. It created many
different languages and traditions.

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Basically, of course, Islam
is our primary religion, but

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Dagestan has actually
absorbed a lot of cultures and

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faiths. Even our food culture,
it is incredibly rich.

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We have European and Asian and

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Caucasian, our own unique cuisine. So on
the people, on the people themselves, the

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last fifteen hundred years
of history have left a huge

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mark. If you're into history
and you start reading about

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Dagestan, I think you'll get
completely immersed and be amazed

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by what a unique place it is.

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So all of this left a huge mark.
Look at the terrain. It's a coastal plain,

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and then the mountains rise up.
For instance, take someone like

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Timur. When he passed through with a
huge army, he stayed in the Dagestan

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lowlands but never went up
into the mountains. Why? Because

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you've got hundreds of thousands
of troops, soldiers traveling with

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horses and supplies.
If they had started going up into

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the mountains where it's
cold and there are no roads,

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it would have been too tough for them.
So the highlanders somehow

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managed to stay independent.
But the lowlands, the Caspian lowlands of

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Dagestan, they kept
changing hands. Massive

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empires would roll in, and all
of that left a mark on the people.

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Gate of the gates, Babul Abwab.
Historians wrote about it, say,

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00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,977
a thousand or fifteen hundred
years ago, great historians

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from various countries.
People have written so much about

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00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,177
Dagestan. It went by different
names back then, but

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00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:20,280
they wrote a ton about this exact region.

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00:16:21,580 --> 00:16:24,420
Many people,
many empires invaded our land.

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- So do you feel that inside you,
in your blood, your heart,

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00:16:28,541 --> 00:16:29,950
like all of this history?

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00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,657
- Well, in the past, it's not like
I really felt it. I knew Dagestan's

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00:16:34,740 --> 00:16:38,557
history, but maybe with time,
you start to see it in a whole new

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00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:44,760
light. Every year, you change a bit
on a mental and psychological level.

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Now I understand.
I really do. You cannot just

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00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:56,077
be born physically
and mentally strong. Your

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00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,037
environment shapes you no matter
what, where you grew up, how you

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00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,057
grew up, the conditions,
and who you had around you. And after

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00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:06,930
all, genetics are also
a part of who you are.

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00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,557
So when you add all this up,
yeah, I just feel like all of this

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00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,150
has come together inside me.

256
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,237
- It's interesting because
in sports, we know many of the

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00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,740
names of the great fighters and wrestlers.

258
00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:25,900
Yet when it comes to war,
there are so many people who fought,

259
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:33,440
heroes, truly great warriors. Some we
know by name, but most of them we'll never

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00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,860
actually know and- - We'll never know.

261
00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:38,320
- You write about Imam Shamil,

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00:17:39,220 --> 00:17:43,957
that he's an important figure
for this region and a hero as well.

263
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:49,800
- Well, Imam Shamil, he was known
for resisting an empire as huge as Russia.

264
00:17:51,260 --> 00:17:55,157
Dagestan is so small, and he
had so few people with him. How

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00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,714
did he get famous? He got famous
because he held out for a very long time.

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00:17:58,797 --> 00:18:03,097
He didn't just resist for a
couple of years. He was like a

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00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:06,937
regular fighter, let's say,
a soldier for ten years, and

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00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:12,020
then when he became the leader,
he went on for another twenty-five years.

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00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:16,750
So, 35 years of his conscious
life he spent fighting

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00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:20,847
not just some random empire,
but what was then, if not

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00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:25,810
the most powerful, definitely one
of the strongest empires of that era.

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00:18:27,710 --> 00:18:29,890
And that is what made him famous.

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And so there are villages
in Dagestan that deeply honor the

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00:18:34,850 --> 00:18:38,550
memory of particular warriors
who came from their villages,

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00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:46,470
from their clan, from their ethnic group.
But in, well world history, they're

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00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:52,627
barely known. Like, take Shamil.
He's a leader, right? So everybody knows

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00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:56,567
him. But there are plenty of heroes
who've been forgotten. But yeah, their

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00:18:56,650 --> 00:18:57,710
own people remember.

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00:18:58,450 --> 00:19:02,227
- Villages hold on to history.
Plus, we have to admit

280
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:06,227
that conditions in the mountains are
incredibly harsh. That's part of it

281
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:09,230
too. Just surviving up
there is a real struggle.

282
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:13,887
- See, back then, people in the mountains
worked all through the summer just to

283
00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:17,520
survive the winter, because
winters are harsh, with heavy snow,

284
00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:23,170
completely cutting off villages. People
just stay inside and try to outlast it.

285
00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:28,150
And in the summer, they work.
Terrace farming was a huge thing for us.

286
00:19:29,150 --> 00:19:33,010
Our terraces are among the most,
you could say, famous and

287
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:37,047
ancient in the world.
They're known as the Chokh terraces. Now,

288
00:19:37,130 --> 00:19:40,670
those are the famous ones.
But every village had terraces.

289
00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:44,747
There's a place out there called
Marghit, right across from our

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00:19:44,830 --> 00:19:48,707
village. People worked over there,
but here, in the village, is

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00:19:48,790 --> 00:19:52,747
where they lived. I mean, you'd think,
why didn't they just build a village

292
00:19:52,830 --> 00:19:56,410
right there, in the place where
we grow all our food? Because

293
00:19:56,610 --> 00:20:00,487
enemies could easily ride
in on horseback. An army could

294
00:20:00,570 --> 00:20:04,167
easily get to you there, so they'd
build a village in rugged terrain-

295
00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:05,750
... somewhere tough to invade.

296
00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:11,047
For instance, our village is Sildi.
It's from the word si, which is like

297
00:20:11,130 --> 00:20:13,270
a castle or a fortress or a tower.

298
00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:17,967
They built it that way so an army
couldn't reach them. You'd have to hike

299
00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:21,367
down one mountain and then
climb up a whole different

300
00:20:21,450 --> 00:20:25,950
mountain. And right there, they'd
plant things like grain, potatoes,

301
00:20:26,910 --> 00:20:28,710
basically, you know, all their food.

302
00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:33,590
See, if we had built over there,
if we lived there and grew our crops

303
00:20:33,770 --> 00:20:37,487
in the same place, since it's all
terraced land, an army could just walk

304
00:20:37,570 --> 00:20:41,670
right up, launch raids, and so on.
Back in the day, that's how people lived.

305
00:20:42,990 --> 00:20:49,530
And so all of this took a toll on people,
physically, psychologically, and mentally.

306
00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:53,807
And honestly, well,
you just can't be born in these

307
00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:57,410
conditions, live here,
stay here, and be mentally weak.

308
00:20:58,590 --> 00:21:01,540
You just have to be tough.
There's no other way to survive.

309
00:21:02,550 --> 00:21:04,930
- So you just built
a sports complex there.

310
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:08,390
Pretty legendary, you know.
Could you talk about that?

311
00:21:08,650 --> 00:21:12,507
- Yes, that was my father's whole plan.
He really wanted it way up in

312
00:21:12,590 --> 00:21:16,490
the mountains. First, it's great
for the fighters. Right now,

313
00:21:16,770 --> 00:21:20,610
I just flew out here to Las Vegas.
We're sitting here, like,

314
00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:24,490
doing this podcast together,
but I came out here for Umar's fight.

315
00:21:25,710 --> 00:21:31,050
And I should say, Umar did his main
training there at the new base in Sildi.

316
00:21:32,050 --> 00:21:35,987
He spent almost a month
at that place. And because it's

317
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:43,070
1500 to 1600 meters above sea level,
man, it's tough to train there. And

318
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:48,810
And the thing is, when you spend
about three to four weeks there,

319
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:52,467
you just have more oxygen
in your blood, you have more

320
00:21:52,550 --> 00:21:56,190
testosterone, you improve
physically, you know, your

321
00:21:56,390 --> 00:22:00,287
stamina builds up, and so on. And

322
00:22:00,370 --> 00:22:06,870
this base was sort of my father's dream.
He started building it back in 2016, 2017.

323
00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:12,570
Money was tight back then. It was really
hard, but we built it little by little.

324
00:22:13,570 --> 00:22:17,167
In 2020, my father passed
away, but I kept the

325
00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:21,330
project going just a little
differently, on a bigger scale.

326
00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:26,507
Right now, the base is open,
and 100 people can be there at the

327
00:22:26,590 --> 00:22:29,630
same time, training, eating, sleeping.

328
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:34,890
And our guys hold their
training camps up there.

329
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:42,950
So this was sort of my father's dream
that I have pretty much brought to life.

330
00:22:44,170 --> 00:22:47,927
- It's a powerful story. To return
to the place where you were born up in the

331
00:22:48,010 --> 00:22:53,387
mountains in order to build a sports
complex where champions train.

332
00:22:53,470 --> 00:22:57,150
Makhachkala Gym is a great place,
but the mountains are special.

333
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:59,767
- Mountains are mountains.
- Mountains are mountains.

334
00:22:59,850 --> 00:23:03,720
- Your home village, no matter what,
on some sort of deeper level,

335
00:23:04,130 --> 00:23:07,830
somehow gives you that, you know,
like Americans love to say,

336
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:11,310
positive energy.
Not everything has to be done for money.

337
00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:15,530
And you know, you shouldn't
just look for profit in

338
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:17,410
everything, let's say financially.

339
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:22,087
There are certain things that don't
bring me anything at all except for

340
00:23:22,170 --> 00:23:26,350
expenses, but I still
do all of it because, um,

341
00:23:27,670 --> 00:23:30,670
because it brings me a lot
of happiness and meaning.

342
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:36,750
First of all, it creates a lot of jobs.
People can work and earn a living.

343
00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:41,450
Second, it's because my father
really wanted this. Third,

344
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:45,610
let's say the guys can
train and improve up there,

345
00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:50,967
both physically and spiritually.
There are just so many benefits there.

346
00:23:51,050 --> 00:23:53,542
- I don't know if it's okay
to ask something like this,

347
00:23:53,626 --> 00:23:54,887
but I would dream of coming

348
00:23:54,970 --> 00:23:58,850
out there to Dagestan, and not
just to Makhachkala, but to Sildi.

349
00:23:59,770 --> 00:24:01,220
Is that even possible for me?

350
00:24:02,790 --> 00:24:05,400
- I think we could film
a really good story out there.

351
00:24:05,483 --> 00:24:06,933
I'm not sure about a podcast,

352
00:24:08,350 --> 00:24:11,810
but I'm sure we could shoot
a really nice vlog there.

353
00:24:13,230 --> 00:24:16,725
- So can you tell me a bit about
the journey from Makhachkala all the way

354
00:24:16,809 --> 00:24:17,642
to Sildi?

355
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,017
- Four hours. Well, 3:40.
- Through the mountains?

356
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,897
- Yeah, 3:30, 3:40 through the mountains.
The road is a real winding

357
00:24:23,980 --> 00:24:27,667
one, not an easy ride. If it gets to be
too hard for you, we can just take a

358
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:33,077
helicopter. It's no problem at all.
Like 40 to 50 minutes from

359
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,020
Makhachkala to Sildi. Otherwise,
keeping it more down to earth, we go

360
00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:39,480
by car, so there's absolutely no problem.

361
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,389
- I could never get used
to a wealthy life. It's just,

362
00:24:42,472 --> 00:24:44,667
it's not in my blood to be like that.

363
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:46,557
- All right, then we'll go by car.

364
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,340
- Yeah, we could go on horseback,
but a car is better.

365
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,600
- No, no, by car is better.
On horseback takes way too long.

366
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:55,070
- Um, so you mentioned money,

367
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,477
and we were just talking about comfort
because right now there are so many

368
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,980
champions. They win so much.
Things are going so

369
00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:08,007
well. How much harder is it
to stay a champion when the money

370
00:25:08,090 --> 00:25:11,600
and the fame start coming in,
when all that stuff starts showing up?

371
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,440
- Well, those are all distracting things.
When you become a champion,

372
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:21,560
there's a massive amount of attention
on you. Sometimes it's contracts,

373
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,850
sometimes you end up having to fly a lot,
you start getting busy with things,

374
00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:29,837
and little by little you begin to miss
your workouts. You miss one, you

375
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,280
miss two, you miss three.

376
00:25:33,140 --> 00:25:37,057
And all of that takes a toll,
and the person who used to train with such

377
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:41,077
a drive, with a hunger to be
the best, as soon as they actually

378
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,960
become the best, they just
don't know what to do next. And

379
00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:52,140
they live their whole life
just to become, stay on the top.

380
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,560
As soon as they get there,
what are they supposed to do?

381
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,297
That's it. They already made it. They've
reached their goal, and there are just so

382
00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:07,077
many distracting factors:
money, flights, you

383
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,977
know, meetings, contracts,
video shoots. There

384
00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:14,797
are just so many distracting
factors. And so if a

385
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,180
person doesn't know how
to handle all of this,

386
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,057
then that person comes down from
the top real fast. And I'm saying

387
00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:26,037
this based on my own experience,
from what I've seen all around me

388
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:27,770
with the ones who came before me.

389
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,240
And back then when I was training
with my father, his students who

390
00:26:33,380 --> 00:26:37,250
went on to become world champions,
just how they finished their careers and

391
00:26:37,340 --> 00:26:41,140
so on. And it's what I saw from my

392
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,760
own observations of other types
of sports, how they came back down,

393
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,490
as far as I've learned. This is a
very delicate moment. If a person

394
00:26:50,980 --> 00:26:54,877
climbing all the way to the top,
if they can handle all of that, that

395
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,657
already shows they have an incredibly
serious mindset. Reaching the

396
00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:02,537
championship and staying there,
reaching it is one thing, but

397
00:27:02,620 --> 00:27:06,760
staying a champion, that's totally
different. It's incredibly tough.

398
00:27:07,260 --> 00:27:11,554
- You're saying that even on a local
level, once you become a champion,

399
00:27:11,637 --> 00:27:12,500
that's already

400
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,240
the tough moment because a lot of people

401
00:27:17,060 --> 00:27:21,000
who start winning, like you
said, they stop fighting,

402
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:24,417
they quit doing MMA
and switch over to fitness.

403
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:26,960
They find themselves that comfort.

404
00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:32,120
But holding onto it is hard,
even on a local level.

405
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,897
Every single time you become more
and more of a champion, you won the

406
00:27:36,980 --> 00:27:41,090
Sambo championship, you keep winning more
and more, and every time it gets harder.

407
00:27:42,780 --> 00:27:46,537
- Yes, and it depends on the person's
goals. If you want to become an

408
00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:50,477
amateur champion just to prove
something to yourself, that's one

409
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,457
thing. But if you view
amateur sports as a springboard

410
00:27:54,540 --> 00:27:58,357
to jump right into professional
sports and become a champion among

411
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,957
professionals, that's a whole
different thing. There are different

412
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,897
paths. First, you build
an amateur career just to get

413
00:28:05,980 --> 00:28:09,760
into the pros and go even
further from there. Second,

414
00:28:10,220 --> 00:28:13,900
after you've made it into the pros,
you become a champion. And

415
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,700
third, after you become a champion,
you have to stay there.

416
00:28:18,610 --> 00:28:22,517
Not everyone has what it takes.
It is incredibly tough. If you look at the

417
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,357
numbers, you can literally count these
champions on one hand. How many of

418
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,920
them are there? Maybe 15, 20, 30 people?

419
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:34,137
Let's say 50 over the last
30 years, and how many have

420
00:28:34,220 --> 00:28:37,740
tried? For example,
50 achieved it over 30 years,

421
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,940
over 35 years of MMA combat sports.

422
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,217
But how many tried? Hundreds of thousands.
And look at that number. Such

423
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:48,500
a tiny amount actually
reached the end goal.

424
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,777
So for you to actually make it
into this tiny list, you really

425
00:28:53,860 --> 00:28:57,840
have to be like just a truly unique,

426
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,650
person and a fighter and,
and you know, a student,

427
00:29:04,020 --> 00:29:07,817
and a person who can
accept guidance from a coach

428
00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:11,620
who when they are being guided,
discard the cons and

429
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,460
take only the pros. But there
are people who take criticism

430
00:29:15,580 --> 00:29:19,357
very hard and very negatively,
and are very sensitive,

431
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,360
let's say, when they take criticism-

432
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:29,577
... from a mentor. So it all has to click,
and some accept criticism at the very

433
00:29:29,660 --> 00:29:34,370
beginning, but then once they become
champions, it's hard for them to take it.

434
00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:38,637
It happens differently.
A man sometimes doesn't even know what

435
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,180
he is capable of.
Sometimes he just can't really

436
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,937
understand himself until
he achieves success or

437
00:29:46,020 --> 00:29:49,720
becomes famous, wealthy,
and powerful. That

438
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,060
is exactly when he
discovers his true qualities.

439
00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:58,197
When he is limited in something,
in money, in power, in

440
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,660
everything that success
eventually brings him,

441
00:30:02,180 --> 00:30:05,480
he doesn't really know
how he's going to act

442
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,297
in this new role, doesn't know
how he'll behave once he becomes

443
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:15,250
big, famous, and a champion.
Nobody knows. Some people

444
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,020
say and wish, "Oh, if only I'd made it
like that, I would do things this way."

445
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,800
I think it's better if people
don't throw around such big words

446
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:30,200
because you never know how you'll carry
yourself once you actually get there.

447
00:30:31,420 --> 00:30:36,424
You know, it's such a delicate thing,
getting up there and still remaining

448
00:30:36,508 --> 00:30:37,341
human.

449
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,077
- When it comes to you, I see that
everyone here just loves you. Even early

450
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,100
on in your career, millions
of people loved you. That is also a,

451
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,100
a tough thing to deal with because
maybe you start believing it.

452
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,180
And you can lose yourself in all of it.
So is it all in the mind? I mean,

453
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,360
what actually goes on in
a champion's head? In yours

454
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:08,560
when you sat alone thinking
about your life, "Who am I really,

455
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,100
and what do I do to keep being
a champion or to become one?"

456
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:18,297
- Well, first of all, from the very
beginning, if you realize that what you're

457
00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:22,180
chasing isn't the most important
thing in life, then it gets

458
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,820
easier for you. And then,
you know, there are some people

459
00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:32,260
whose, let's say, ultimate goal is to be
successful, powerful, and to make it big.

460
00:31:33,140 --> 00:31:38,640
At the end of the day, after all, we are
not really such big, important people.

461
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:46,840
And, like, I believe it's wrong
to just crown yourself king because,

462
00:31:49,460 --> 00:31:55,560
uh if we put it, to put it bluntly,
if we're being honest here,

463
00:31:57,020 --> 00:32:04,020
we can't even control the basic need to go
to the restroom. Maybe to some... Yeah.

464
00:32:05,780 --> 00:32:09,717
To some people this will probably
seem a bit crude, but we all go

465
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,420
to the restroom, excuse my language.
If we can't control

466
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:16,060
even this, so what can we actually

467
00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:20,900
control in this life? Look how
many people we know, how many great

468
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,480
people have left this earth.
It doesn't really matter how, like,

469
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,077
big, strong, or famous you are,
how wealthy you are, champion or no

470
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,760
champion. Either way, they put us
all in the exact same grave, you know,

471
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:36,940
two meters down or, like,
a meter or a meter and a half.

472
00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:39,560
Different confessions,
different religions,

473
00:32:39,643 --> 00:32:41,420
they bury people in different ways.

474
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,938
So I actually believe that every single
person should have this realization

475
00:32:47,021 --> 00:32:47,855
that we

476
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,357
are just not some kind of big, important

477
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,978
people here who just decide
and get to control everything.

478
00:32:56,061 --> 00:32:57,560
We don't get to do that.

479
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,892
In my case, I was raised under
the guidance of my father.

480
00:33:02,975 --> 00:33:04,340
My father was a coach,

481
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:12,427
and my goal was always to become... To
prove to my father that out of everyone,

482
00:33:12,510 --> 00:33:17,840
even though he trains many other people,
he trains everyone, I mean, I'm also here.

483
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,660
I can show him. He doesn't have
to look very far. I'm right there,

484
00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:27,137
and under his guidance,
I can become a champion. I

485
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:32,130
looked up to him and followed his example,
trained hard, and it was like, you know,

486
00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:37,837
a kind of a challenge
to prove to him that, "Look, I

487
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,760
am right here, Father,
and everything you teach, I will take it

488
00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:45,740
all in zealously, worthily.
I'll follow your program,

489
00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:49,437
do it right, and I will become
a champion." And that was

490
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,487
exactly the kind of goal I had,
to prove it first and foremost

491
00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:57,477
to my father and secondly
to the entire world that I can

492
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,380
become the best wrestler
or fighter. But I never

493
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,297
thought of being crowned
king after I became a

494
00:34:06,380 --> 00:34:10,280
champion. I was never going
to walk around like, "Look how cool

495
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,037
I am." That was never in my head,
and I'm really glad

496
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,010
that the Almighty protected me
from all of that because many

497
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:21,240
people end up in a bad
place if they act like that.

498
00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:26,030
- This is a profound wisdom,
not thinking about being crowned.

499
00:34:26,860 --> 00:34:30,557
But even if you don't, a fire should
burn within you, driving you to

500
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,377
become a champion, right?
As you said, hundreds of thousands,

501
00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:37,797
millions of people want to be
a champion, but only one can be.

502
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,637
- Yeah, but that is actually
about you confronting your

503
00:34:41,720 --> 00:34:45,680
opponent. You've got to put
a barrier inside your mind

504
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,997
where on one side you're
a humble person, but on the

505
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,920
other side you're different
because you have a goal, your goal.

506
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,220
Of course, you should still follow
a code of honor. You should be a man,

507
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,380
a righteous man, and know what you can
and cannot do. You should always do that.

508
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,800
But in the end, your opponent is the
person who wants to stop your dream.

509
00:35:10,140 --> 00:35:13,540
So here the boundaries
expand just a little bit.

510
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,840
Right here, you're already not playing
humble. Right here, you just step out

511
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:25,080
and you want to clear your opponent out
of your way, and that's it, because your

512
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,660
goal is to be the best in the
world and they are blocking you.

513
00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:34,920
Excuse me, but in this situation,
there's no way you can act all humble.

514
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:39,870
- But when you were training in the gym,
what was it that gave you this strength?

515
00:35:39,980 --> 00:35:42,920
A hatred of losing or a love for winning?

516
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,100
- I think it was the hatred
of losing. Yes, definitely.

517
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:53,637
I mean, you know, of course you
want to win, but for me there

518
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:59,700
was always this driver like, "No way.
I am not losing," you know.

519
00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:04,357
When they would give me a fight, I
always tell this to my guys, whenever they

520
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,180
would give me a fight on a professional
level, 100 days before it

521
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:14,830
I was... How do you say it? Addiction.

522
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,917
I was fixated like when people
have this addiction. But for me it

523
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,720
was commitment, that I absolutely
had to prepare perfectly for the

524
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,550
fight. I couldn't miss any training
sessions. I would literally have,

525
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:31,910
like, this panic. Like,
for example, I'd fly somewhere and

526
00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:35,930
I have, let's say, eighty-five
days left until the fight.

527
00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:39,827
Like, I knew that I had to fly.
For example, if I was flying to

528
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:43,270
Moscow, I would always
pick a ticket so I could

529
00:36:43,370 --> 00:36:47,040
absolutely do my morning
training session first. Then I'd

530
00:36:47,250 --> 00:36:50,847
take off around lunchtime.
And once I arrived in Moscow, for

531
00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:54,940
whatever reason, I had to fit it
all around my training schedule.

532
00:36:56,510 --> 00:37:00,427
Either I had to meet up before my training
sessions or I had to meet up after my

533
00:37:00,510 --> 00:37:04,247
training sessions. And I simply could
not miss that evening training session

534
00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:08,067
because I had to train during
the day from four to five

535
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:11,770
hours, two in the morning and two
to two and a half in the evening.

536
00:37:12,370 --> 00:37:16,127
And I needed to I would
prepare myself that way. Looking

537
00:37:16,210 --> 00:37:20,170
at who was in Moscow right then,
wondering who I could, like

538
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:24,327
pull into a training session there.
Well, they also had to-- the person had to

539
00:37:24,410 --> 00:37:27,360
match my level as well. Not just
like I showed up there, you know,

540
00:37:27,443 --> 00:37:29,743
played around with him.
I needed a fight back.

541
00:37:31,250 --> 00:37:35,087
I would arrange in advance who was gonna
come. Maybe some sparring, maybe I'd do

542
00:37:35,170 --> 00:37:38,830
wrestling, maybe I'd hit the weights,
maybe a striking workout.

543
00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:43,887
So I had this, let's say
I always had this tough and

544
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:49,970
scientific approach to it. So I believe
that more than anything, I didn't want to

545
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:54,907
lose rather than I wanted to win,
you know? Of course, winning is

546
00:37:54,990 --> 00:37:58,640
also a huge pleasure, but more than
anything, I just didn't want to lose.

547
00:37:59,270 --> 00:38:03,120
- So in all those hard training sessions,
you were thinking about not losing.

548
00:38:03,290 --> 00:38:06,367
That's the fuel. - The fuel.
- Four to five hours every single day.

549
00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:10,970
- Every day. - There is a story
that I heard. Sadulaev,

550
00:38:11,330 --> 00:38:15,050
the legendary wrestler,
told a story that he went to a hotel,

551
00:38:15,650 --> 00:38:19,230
I think it was in Moscow,
to train in the gym, and he was the

552
00:38:19,330 --> 00:38:24,000
only-- It was during the night, I don't
know. He was the only one who was there.

553
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:30,047
And you came down-... And you actually
trained together. And he said he, he

554
00:38:30,130 --> 00:38:33,127
said a lot of great things about you.
He said that you gave him some

555
00:38:33,210 --> 00:38:40,210
really deep wisdom, which helped him to
win the gold medal, at the Olympic Games.

556
00:38:42,210 --> 00:38:44,571
I'm curious, could you tell
us now what you told him?

557
00:38:44,654 --> 00:38:46,504
What kind of wisdom did you give him?

558
00:38:47,770 --> 00:38:50,947
- I can't remember exactly,
but we had really great conversations.

559
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:54,747
- It's a great story that the two of you,
like two legends like that, just

560
00:38:54,830 --> 00:38:59,030
met completely by chance. - Well, look,
he's a two-time Olympic champion, right?

561
00:38:59,510 --> 00:39:00,343
- Right.

562
00:39:00,470 --> 00:39:04,130
- I think he doesn't skip his training
either. He never missed one back

563
00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:08,110
then. I believe that we both
ended up there because we both,

564
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:12,267
you know, hate to lose,
and we both really want to

565
00:39:12,350 --> 00:39:16,130
win. And, you know,
recently I came across this idea.

566
00:39:17,830 --> 00:39:21,687
There are athletes who simply want
to win, and then there are some for

567
00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:25,450
whom victory isn't enough.
They want domination.

568
00:39:25,770 --> 00:39:29,740
I believe that he is one of those as well.
They want domination. And for

569
00:39:29,830 --> 00:39:33,190
that, what does a person have to do?
They have to train.

570
00:39:34,570 --> 00:39:37,070
They have to grind morning and night. And

571
00:39:38,770 --> 00:39:42,587
there was this thing with us.
After the morning, my father never

572
00:39:42,670 --> 00:39:46,450
let us sleep. When I say
the morning, I mean after Fajr,

573
00:39:46,690 --> 00:39:50,630
the dawn prayer. He just wouldn't
sleep himself, so we couldn't either.

574
00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:54,670
So every morning, six, seven,
we'd be out doing our warm-up.

575
00:39:55,870 --> 00:39:59,767
Some people might call it a warm-up,
but when you show up at the stadium in the

576
00:39:59,850 --> 00:40:03,747
morning, you run five kilometers,
you do sprints, you work with

577
00:40:03,830 --> 00:40:07,550
resistance bands, you work
on the pull-up bar, you do push-ups,

578
00:40:07,930 --> 00:40:14,930
dips, jumps, you know the bands then
work with a partner, drilling and so on.

579
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:19,467
That's about two hours of work.
You drop two, two and a half kilos

580
00:40:19,550 --> 00:40:23,390
there. Not really a warm-up,
but Father always called it that, right?

581
00:40:23,890 --> 00:40:27,727
That was a full morning
training at seven AM. Then I came

582
00:40:27,810 --> 00:40:30,930
home to rest, and at four
o'clock, we'd head to the gym.

583
00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:35,790
The training would start
at five o'clock and end at seven.

584
00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:40,070
By eight, I'd be home,
and by eleven, I'd rest up.

585
00:40:41,070 --> 00:40:44,090
And yet I kept thinking
that something was missing.

586
00:40:45,590 --> 00:40:49,387
Like, I know that I have a start,
a competition coming up in

587
00:40:49,470 --> 00:40:53,327
like forty or thirty days, and I would
wake up and I'd be like, "Let me go

588
00:40:53,410 --> 00:40:57,267
to the sea. I'm gonna go down to the sea,
do some running, some sprints on

589
00:40:57,350 --> 00:41:01,267
the sand, work out, and so on."
And so many times, I ended

590
00:41:01,350 --> 00:41:03,850
up going out for a third
training session as well.

591
00:41:05,130 --> 00:41:08,757
Sometimes Father would say, "Rest.
In the morning, we're gonna have a heavy

592
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,567
workload." But sometimes I wouldn't
tell Father. I'd just go out at

593
00:41:12,650 --> 00:41:16,547
night, head out, and train.
At night when everyone's asleep, when

594
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:20,547
nobody's around, I'd grab one of my
close friends, give them a call, have

595
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:24,447
them pick me up, then hop in the car
and head to the sea. I'd train

596
00:41:24,530 --> 00:41:27,930
for an hour or an hour and a half,
come back, and crash.

597
00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:31,276
Next morning, I'd get up
and start all over again.

598
00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:33,250
And just this routine, nonstop.

599
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:37,807
And when I see guys, you know,
when they do just one training session or

600
00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:41,627
like they say, "On Wednesday,
we have a morning training, then an

601
00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:42,860
evening sauna session."

602
00:41:43,950 --> 00:41:47,707
What do you mean? You have
to fight in fifty days. You have a

603
00:41:47,790 --> 00:41:51,340
huge fight ahead and you want to take
a rest in the middle of the week?

604
00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:53,470
Well, rest on Sunday.

605
00:41:54,610 --> 00:41:57,333
On Saturday, do a morning training,
hit the sauna in the evening,

606
00:41:57,417 --> 00:42:00,767
take a complete rest on Sunday,
and start all over again on Monday.

607
00:42:02,090 --> 00:42:06,007
That was just my approach. Everyone
does it differently. I don't know.

608
00:42:06,090 --> 00:42:10,810
I just think it has to be in your head.
You've got to want it incredibly badly.

609
00:42:12,330 --> 00:42:15,096
- So you believe that to be a champion,
you have to train like that,

610
00:42:15,179 --> 00:42:16,529
you have to be that serious

611
00:42:17,070 --> 00:42:18,420
for the majority of people?

612
00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:24,670
- Let's say I believe that to be
at the top, the top tier, right?

613
00:42:25,530 --> 00:42:27,350
One of the best in the world

614
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,760
A person has to always be,
you know, a little bit, let's say

615
00:42:32,860 --> 00:42:36,117
just a little bit crazy,
but in a good sense of the

616
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,137
word. You have to be addicted
to it and to want this incredibly

617
00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:43,940
bad. You have to take a fanatical
approach to the training process.

618
00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:49,057
Just showing up and working
out, that's what hundreds of

619
00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:53,000
thousands of guys are doing
around the world. To stand out from

620
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,957
that, from this crowd,
let's say, who have the exact

621
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,927
same goals as you do,
to stand out from that, you have

622
00:43:01,010 --> 00:43:03,797
to take a fanatical approach to it.

623
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,237
- Well, look,
I'm training with John Danaher.

624
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,360
And they train like that too.
They train three times a day.

625
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,060
And it actually feels right
this way. I mean, of course,

626
00:43:13,143 --> 00:43:14,643
this is how you have to train.

627
00:43:15,380 --> 00:43:18,277
- 'Cause of that, John has one
of the best- - Yeah, he makes champions

628
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,557
-... students in the world, and after all,
they don't just take some random place.

629
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,840
I mean, they're not
somewhere in the middle.

630
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:29,760
They're at the top, and look
at their whole approach. Some people...

631
00:43:31,980 --> 00:43:35,649
Look, a person with that kind of approach
just can't be somewhere in the middle.

632
00:43:35,732 --> 00:43:41,337
It's impossible. If you have a fanatical
attitude, the right attitude toward

633
00:43:41,420 --> 00:43:46,060
the training process, on top of that,
you have to be fanatical about it.

634
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,800
You love what you do, and in the end,

635
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,120
there will be results. Well, just look
at John and look where his guys are.

636
00:43:55,900 --> 00:44:00,560
He creates champions. He finds a champion
in everyone, across every category, right?

637
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,617
- He creates champions,
not just one or two,

638
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:10,960
but all of them. He finds a champion
in everyone, across every category.

639
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,000
- Look, the people who come to him,
he has a system, let's say, right?

640
00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:19,360
Under this roof, under his
roof, there is a system.

641
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,280
People come here, and they
become champions in this system.

642
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,933
So there are people
there who are champions.

643
00:44:27,017 --> 00:44:29,520
These are specific established names.

644
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,480
And there are other
people who came and left.

645
00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:39,780
They entered that black room, so to say,
an uncomfortable place. They went in,

646
00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:44,517
stood for a year, a year
and a half or two, and left. Nobody

647
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,140
talks about them. These are
the people who came in, broke mentally,

648
00:44:48,540 --> 00:44:52,400
and left, and there aren't just
a few of them. There are a lot.

649
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,537
Usually, most people give up.
There are many who give up, but

650
00:44:56,620 --> 00:45:00,140
then there are the ones who come
in and stay there for a long time.

651
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:07,300
Long, long time. And after some time, they
achieve success. They become the best.

652
00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:12,477
They prove to themselves that once
they enter the system, they could stay

653
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,060
there for a long time,
endure, and become the best.

654
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,740
They prove that they are
already capable of many things.

655
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,900
They can be trusted to supervise
big, important projects.

656
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:32,700
I would even say, for example, 2,000 years
ago, they could easily rule entire cities.

657
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,207
So a person who has gone through
it physically, who has lived

658
00:45:38,290 --> 00:45:42,410
through it, who has faced
challenges, passed the tests,

659
00:45:42,493 --> 00:45:44,480
they are capable of a lot,

660
00:45:45,300 --> 00:45:48,977
highly capable. You don't just walk
into martial arts and become the

661
00:45:49,060 --> 00:45:52,080
best. It's very difficult. It means that

662
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:56,717
you go through pain,
you make sacrifices, you give

663
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,440
your time, you face setbacks
and failures in training.

664
00:46:01,030 --> 00:46:04,960
The mental strength and capacity
mean a lot there. And

665
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,697
when I talk about his system,
look, I mean those schools that

666
00:46:08,780 --> 00:46:12,277
became the best, let's
say, in football or in

667
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,320
freestyle wrestling or,
let's say, in MMA, in grappling,

668
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,337
or in judo. It's really
hard to enter one of the best

669
00:46:20,420 --> 00:46:23,700
schools in the world,
to stay when they are breaking you,

670
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,620
throwing you, choking you,
to improve as a person

671
00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:31,777
and as an athlete,
and to become a champion. It takes

672
00:46:31,860 --> 00:46:38,100
at least 12 years, 10 to 12 years,
maybe 15. For some, it took longer.

673
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,817
And to get through the grind
for these 15 years and

674
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:46,400
then to break through and become
the best is worth a lot.

675
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,900
- Have you had those tough moments where
you're almost broken psychologically?

676
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,240
You know, just sitting there,
finding it hard to breathe,

677
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,190
and everything is going wrong,
lost in some situations.

678
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,510
And when you were young,
was there ever a moment like that?

679
00:47:08,060 --> 00:47:10,880
'Cause the guys from Dagestan on the team,

680
00:47:11,940 --> 00:47:16,660
really great guys, by the way, all say
they've never seen you broken in training,

681
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,400
not even losing really. But when
you were young, did it ever happen?

682
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:27,257
- Look, I've been in this
grind since I was a kid.

683
00:47:27,340 --> 00:47:31,177
Wherever my father coached,
there were always... Let's take the

684
00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:35,057
year 2004, for example.
My father put together

685
00:47:35,140 --> 00:47:39,007
the Dagestan national team
for combat Sambo and in mixed martial

686
00:47:39,090 --> 00:47:42,817
arts, which was called
no-holds-barred fighting. There were

687
00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:48,280
training camps, too. I was 15.
It was the winter of 2004,

688
00:47:49,580 --> 00:47:53,297
and I was the youngest guy there.
The others were, let's

689
00:47:53,380 --> 00:47:57,157
say, between 22 and 30, all active

690
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,700
world champions. At that time,
I was, like, 14, 15 years old.

691
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:08,680
I wrestled with them, grappled, was in
this uncomfortable environment for myself,

692
00:48:09,740 --> 00:48:13,670
where we always had the rule that
the youngest has to do everything,

693
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:19,077
and he is always wrong,
and I had to deal with that.

694
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,960
Especially in the gym, they throw
you, hit you again and again.

695
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,100
You have to show up morning
and evening, day after day. This

696
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,140
place hardens you. They say
How the steel was tempered.

697
00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:35,400
Steel isn't tempered for nothing.
How many times do you have to

698
00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:40,580
strike the steel before it becomes a
sword? That doesn't just happen by itself.

699
00:48:41,180 --> 00:48:42,930
- Did you believe in yourself then?

700
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,077
- Some of the guys who were at those
camps back then, they're grown men

701
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,817
now. Even then, they were older than me by

702
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:55,660
10, 12, maybe 15 years.
And they always used to say, "Khabib,

703
00:48:56,460 --> 00:48:59,820
we honestly thought you were
going to become some kind of

704
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:03,620
scholar or scientist." Because my father

705
00:49:03,740 --> 00:49:07,040
was always making me read
and write, read and write.

706
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,037
I would copy out entire books
by hand. There was always

707
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,800
this control. It wasn't like
he'd say, "Khabib, go do this",

708
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,040
and you could just walk away and not
do it. When he said, "Go do it", you

709
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,597
did it. My father never
forgot anything. He had a

710
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,457
phenomenal memory. He'd be like,
"Did you do it?" And everything he

711
00:49:28,540 --> 00:49:30,520
told you, he remembered. He just did.

712
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:31,797
- He checked you.

713
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,860
- He was like, "Come here."
And he'd check. I knew it wasn't something

714
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,737
I could get away with. So,
you know, since childhood, I

715
00:49:39,820 --> 00:49:43,740
was lucky that my father
always kept me close, and I

716
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:50,220
found myself in this environment
among fighters who at that time-

717
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,417
... were, I don't know, they just
didn't compete in America and Europe back

718
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:58,840
then. But in the post-Soviet space,
they were the best at that time.

719
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,180
And it helped me a lot
to become mentally strong.

720
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,900
- Tell me more about your father.
You've read a lot.

721
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,402
You didn't just fight. You were
well-rounded and you told several stories

722
00:50:13,486 --> 00:50:18,780
about this. There was a book,
what is it called? Countries and Peoples.

723
00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:21,720
- Yes, from my childhood. - It is, really.

724
00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:25,460
- Yes. - And it went on- -
The approach was the same.

725
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,717
- Tell that story because I think it's
important for the parents listening to us

726
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,097
to understand this.
You're not just trying to create a

727
00:50:33,180 --> 00:50:36,877
champion. You're trying
to raise a well-rounded person, a

728
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,340
wise person, a person with depth.

729
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,080
- Yes, you have to give the right
motivation to kids with proper

730
00:50:44,180 --> 00:50:47,897
communication. My father
was very good at this. I

731
00:50:47,980 --> 00:50:51,737
now realize interacting
with my own kids how wise he

732
00:50:51,820 --> 00:50:54,660
was and how deeply he understood this.

733
00:50:55,940 --> 00:50:59,737
Because when a child is eight,
10 years old, and when they are

734
00:50:59,820 --> 00:51:03,737
just beginning to form as a person,
it is important to have

735
00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:08,730
the right approach. I now understand
how farsighted my father's approach was.

736
00:51:09,450 --> 00:51:13,240
First, he tried not to give
me anything for free. Only

737
00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:17,457
sometimes I could get something
for free. For example, before a

738
00:51:17,540 --> 00:51:21,437
holiday, like Eid al-Fitr or before school

739
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,117
started, Father would
give money. I'd go buy

740
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,920
clothes at the market for back to school,
that kind of thing, you know?

741
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:33,337
And at other times, he always told me,
"Well, if you want it, you need to

742
00:51:33,420 --> 00:51:36,400
earn it. You want me to give
you money just like that?"

743
00:51:37,460 --> 00:51:41,060
There would be some work around
the house and so on that I had to do.

744
00:51:41,740 --> 00:51:44,840
And I knew that encouragement
would always be there.

745
00:51:45,580 --> 00:51:49,257
My father always had this kind
of approach. He set a very

746
00:51:49,340 --> 00:51:53,297
strong personal example,
very strong, and I really learnt a

747
00:51:53,380 --> 00:51:57,160
lot from him. Took a lot.
And then, as you mentioned,

748
00:51:57,580 --> 00:52:01,177
there was the book, Countries
and Peoples. Someone gave it to

749
00:52:01,260 --> 00:52:05,157
him as a gift. My father read
through it, and he realized

750
00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:12,240
that it was perfect for me, for a child
who was 10, 11, maybe 12 at the time.

751
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:18,397
That book was part of my life for about
two or three years, something like that.

752
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,400
- It was about 193 countries.
The geography, history, all the details.

753
00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:27,580
- For each country, it describes
its geographical location,

754
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,760
which countries it bordered,
its major rivers, mountains,

755
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,477
cities, history, economy,
finances. Just brief

756
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,377
information about every country.
My father said, "You'll

757
00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:42,620
tell me about each country,
and I'll give you money for it."

758
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:45,470
And I thought, "All right."

759
00:52:46,180 --> 00:52:50,400
I knew this was like my own little
capital just sitting there waiting for me.

760
00:52:51,380 --> 00:52:55,297
All I had to do was come,
take that book, read it, understand

761
00:52:55,380 --> 00:52:57,810
it. Then my father would
take the book and say,

762
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,430
"Now, tell me what you read."
And he would check.

763
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:06,277
He would look through it. The countries
were arranged alphabetically. A

764
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,277
for Andorra, Angola, and so on.
B for Belgium, Brazil, and

765
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,197
so on. Everything went
in alphabetical order. I started

766
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,200
from A and read them all
straight to the very end.

767
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,927
Like every single time when
I needed the money, I did

768
00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:26,000
that. And for example,
I go over the first 40 countries,

769
00:53:26,340 --> 00:53:32,220
he'd check a box, and then I continued.
That's how my father would test me.

770
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:40,760
Let's just say that my knowledge
of geography comes from back then.

771
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,920
- Did you realize how big the world was?

772
00:53:44,820 --> 00:53:46,657
- No. - As a child, you don't understand?

773
00:53:46,740 --> 00:53:50,617
- At that time, I didn't understand.
But since then, I've had this desire

774
00:53:50,700 --> 00:53:54,357
to travel. I really wanted
to travel, visit different

775
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:58,680
countries, see wonders of the world,
the Colosseum, the pyramids.

776
00:53:59,580 --> 00:54:03,860
But all of this is from childhood,
from what I read and wrote.

777
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:10,000
It wasn't just about reading. I also had
to rewrite it. I had to write it down.

778
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,660
I always wrote down what
I read. And actually,

779
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,277
this is very good advice for parents,
you know. They can use this

780
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:27,360
with their children too. They can tell
them to sit down and copy books by hand.

781
00:54:28,380 --> 00:54:35,380
First of all, eyesight improves. Reading
improves. Writing, how you write improves.

782
00:54:36,110 --> 00:54:39,650
Your handwriting. And it stays
with you when you read and write.

783
00:54:41,050 --> 00:54:45,900
It really develops a child.
Not only I believe that,

784
00:54:46,770 --> 00:54:50,507
I actually do advise parents
to motivate their kids

785
00:54:50,590 --> 00:54:55,010
this way. You can simply
create some kind of challenge

786
00:54:55,930 --> 00:55:01,210
that children benefit from and reward
them for it after it is done.

787
00:55:02,510 --> 00:55:05,310
This really helps develop a child's mind.

788
00:55:06,590 --> 00:55:10,190
- I actually saw advice
from the great writers

789
00:55:11,310 --> 00:55:14,910
who said that they remembered doing
the same thing when they were young.

790
00:55:15,490 --> 00:55:18,370
When they first started writing,
they just simply copied

791
00:55:19,230 --> 00:55:25,150
other legendary writers. You read their
work and then you type it out yourself,

792
00:55:26,050 --> 00:55:28,900
and you start absorbing that
style into your bloodstream.

793
00:55:29,660 --> 00:55:32,747
- Well, it needs to be done in childhood.

794
00:55:32,830 --> 00:55:36,310
When the child is ready
to learn and his mind is open,

795
00:55:37,230 --> 00:55:40,670
let's say as a metaphor,
when his table is clean,

796
00:55:41,070 --> 00:55:44,710
not occupied with clutter,
then as a father,

797
00:55:45,170 --> 00:55:49,730
you can help them place all the right
things on the table in their proper place.

798
00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:57,167
Let's say put the food in one place,
flowers in another, something

799
00:55:57,250 --> 00:56:04,250
like that. It is important.
That's why I believe I was very lucky. My

800
00:56:04,410 --> 00:56:08,640
father did the right thing. He provided
me with the right kind of information,

801
00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:13,447
and I learned a lot just
from being around him. I

802
00:56:13,530 --> 00:56:15,480
learned so much just from his presence.

803
00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:20,570
He was there at home, and then
we also went to competitions.

804
00:56:21,690 --> 00:56:27,430
He was always there at trainings and
at camps, so I absorbed a lot from him,

805
00:56:28,570 --> 00:56:32,210
and it was interesting
for me too. Of course,

806
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:37,907
when you're a teenager, sometimes
you're tired, sometimes you want to

807
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:41,990
break free. All of that was there. But

808
00:56:44,130 --> 00:56:48,650
my father had the right approach. He
influenced me a lot and in the right way.

809
00:56:49,390 --> 00:56:52,110
- And there's the physical
component too of hard work.

810
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:57,060
There's a story you told about
the time he made you dig a big hole

811
00:56:57,710 --> 00:57:02,227
just because it was difficult.
There's wisdom in that.

812
00:57:02,310 --> 00:57:05,460
That you just need to work.
You need to stay busy all the time.

813
00:57:05,740 --> 00:57:09,095
- These were training camps from two
thousand and five to two thousand

814
00:57:09,179 --> 00:57:09,867
and seven.

815
00:57:09,950 --> 00:57:13,727
In the summer, we went to the mountains.
There was a children's camp there, an

816
00:57:13,810 --> 00:57:18,530
old Soviet-style pioneer camp where
we stayed doing our runs in the forest.

817
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:23,387
Together, we built a small
training area there with a rope, a

818
00:57:23,470 --> 00:57:27,320
punching bag, a pull-up bar.
We did sprints there. We pulled

819
00:57:27,410 --> 00:57:31,327
resistance bands. After running
in the mountains, we would come back

820
00:57:31,410 --> 00:57:35,047
and work there. There were
almost no mats. We built the base

821
00:57:35,130 --> 00:57:38,827
ourselves. It had a dining
room on the first floor and an

822
00:57:38,910 --> 00:57:42,650
attic space where we slept.
We would come downstairs, eat,

823
00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:46,447
go outside, train in that little
sports area, then run in the

824
00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:50,130
forest. It was somewhere
around twelve hundred meters

825
00:57:50,330 --> 00:57:54,267
above sea level, a conifer
forest. We spent the whole

826
00:57:54,350 --> 00:57:58,047
summer there. There we'd train
in the morning, then there was

827
00:57:58,130 --> 00:58:02,350
nothing to do all day, and in the evening
we had training sessions again.

828
00:58:03,290 --> 00:58:06,910
But during the day, so we wouldn't
be busy with unnecessary things,

829
00:58:07,410 --> 00:58:11,067
my father sometimes gave us work.
And we'd ask, "Why are we

830
00:58:11,150 --> 00:58:14,947
digging this pit?" He'd say,
"Well, people used to use it like a

831
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:18,907
refrigerator. When you dig
two or three meters down, it

832
00:58:18,990 --> 00:58:22,970
is cold inside. You can put milk there,
cheese, things like that, so the

833
00:58:23,090 --> 00:58:26,967
food does not go bad."
And we were like, "Okay, but do

834
00:58:27,050 --> 00:58:29,350
we really need these
refrigerators every day?"

835
00:58:30,210 --> 00:58:34,067
So in that sense, this was his
approach back then. He always had this

836
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:35,370
kind of unique approach.

837
00:58:36,190 --> 00:58:39,970
- Well, what's the philosophy here?
That you gotta be busy all the time,

838
00:58:40,750 --> 00:58:42,747
working hard, doing something difficult.

839
00:58:42,830 --> 00:58:46,687
- Yes, it's very dangerous
to give a child free time in

840
00:58:46,770 --> 00:58:50,507
adolescence. They should
always be busy learning new

841
00:58:50,590 --> 00:58:54,367
information, improving,
acquiring new skills. A person

842
00:58:54,450 --> 00:58:58,147
should always be busy. When you're
sixteen, well, what can be on your

843
00:58:58,230 --> 00:59:02,010
mind? You should constantly
develop and improve.

844
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:06,907
And by this time, you should already,
I believe, have decided what you want to

845
00:59:06,990 --> 00:59:13,890
become. You should already be
investing in what you want to turn into.

846
00:59:15,570 --> 00:59:19,507
- By the way, you had several very
good conversations with Nurlan, with

847
00:59:19,590 --> 00:59:23,107
Adam, which I highly recommend.
In one of them, your brother

848
00:59:23,190 --> 00:59:26,750
Abubakar told a story
that when you were young,

849
00:59:27,490 --> 00:59:31,310
there were several street fights,
maybe many, I don't know. He

850
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:34,850
said he was the one who got you
into it. You were kind of bigger,

851
00:59:35,770 --> 00:59:39,310
and he needed protection at that time.
You were that protection.

852
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:45,170
Can you tell us these stories? How often
did you fight on the streets of Dagestan?

853
00:59:46,010 --> 00:59:49,830
- Well, let's start with the fact
that I never bullied anyone. Never.

854
00:59:50,370 --> 00:59:54,490
Although I physically could bully,
yes, let's say I had the capability.

855
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:59,530
I wasn't the kind of person
who started the fights.

856
01:00:00,790 --> 01:00:03,890
- You didn't start? - I didn't.
Well— - Tried to finish.

857
01:00:04,030 --> 01:00:10,050
- Well, maybe there were some moments,
but mostly no. Mostly I didn't start.

858
01:00:10,790 --> 01:00:12,850
Abubakar, sure, he was like that.

859
01:00:13,830 --> 01:00:16,930
In my circle, I had some guys
who were a little bit like that.

860
01:00:17,710 --> 01:00:21,407
- He said that he's a bit of—
- He was a troublemaker.

861
01:00:21,490 --> 01:00:26,090
He was a troublemaker, and because
of him, I got into trouble many times.

862
01:00:27,110 --> 01:00:29,170
When you're, let's say, fourteen,

863
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:33,787
fifteen years old and your
brother is fighting. You don't

864
01:00:33,870 --> 01:00:37,350
really ask who's right
or who's wrong. You just go in,

865
01:00:37,790 --> 01:00:41,607
you start to, as we say,
you interfere. You just have

866
01:00:41,690 --> 01:00:45,170
to go in, right? But when
you're older, more conscious,

867
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,600
when you're twenty,
twenty-five or thirty years old,

868
01:00:49,470 --> 01:00:52,400
this is when you really start telling him,

869
01:00:53,450 --> 01:00:57,410
"You know, Abubakar,
I think you're wrong here. Yes,

870
01:00:57,690 --> 01:01:01,527
we'll finish this right now,
but in the future, I wouldn't want

871
01:01:01,610 --> 01:01:04,850
you to get involved because
I think it's wrong, right?"

872
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:09,310
Well, as kids, we just didn't ask.
We just went right in.

873
01:01:09,930 --> 01:01:13,670
When we moved to Makhachkala in 1999,

874
01:01:13,970 --> 01:01:19,650
let's say the end of 1999,
so there were—we were many brothers,

875
01:01:20,610 --> 01:01:24,567
more than ten of us. We lived in one
house. Some were in school, some

876
01:01:24,650 --> 01:01:28,507
in college, some in university.
But we all had one routine. We

877
01:01:28,590 --> 01:01:32,210
trained in the morning, then went
to school. We'd come home, rest,

878
01:01:32,450 --> 01:01:35,970
do homework, then train
in the evening, come home and rest,

879
01:01:36,430 --> 01:01:40,267
without mothers, just by ourselves.
Father gathered

880
01:01:40,350 --> 01:01:43,787
everyone. He took in close
friends and family, his

881
01:01:43,870 --> 01:01:47,550
nephews, cousins, relatives,
those who didn't have a father,

882
01:01:47,820 --> 01:01:51,570
and so on. He took them in,
and we all lived in one house. We

883
01:01:51,690 --> 01:01:55,570
cooked, cleaned, did laundry
all by ourselves. It was like,

884
01:01:55,710 --> 01:02:01,890
well, some kind of army life, you know?
And when the brothers had some problems,

885
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:08,970
let's say misunderstandings,
we didn't go easy on those guys.

886
01:02:10,170 --> 01:02:13,430
And even those who lived
around there near that house,

887
01:02:14,890 --> 01:02:18,787
in that district, in the settlement,
everyone knew that there were lots

888
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:25,707
of brothers living there. So they had
to be careful. And we had a football field

889
01:02:25,790 --> 01:02:31,310
there. It was right in front of the house,
and everyone who came to play there,

890
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:36,173
we constantly had fights
there, misunderstandings.

891
01:02:36,256 --> 01:02:38,350
There were older brothers.

892
01:02:39,070 --> 01:02:43,027
They were always watching us, keeping us
from trouble. "Don't do this. Don't do"

893
01:02:43,110 --> 01:02:46,370
that. Watch your mouth."
But we had our own little group.

894
01:02:47,190 --> 01:02:51,067
The age difference between
us was maybe two, three

895
01:02:51,150 --> 01:02:56,050
years. There were five or six of us.
We'd always go outside and play football.

896
01:02:58,290 --> 01:03:02,147
If our team was losing,
then the game would just

897
01:03:02,230 --> 01:03:06,990
turn into a whole different sport,
and that's how we were growing up.

898
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:12,051
We spent six, seven years
there, almost ten years.

899
01:03:12,135 --> 01:03:14,870
We were living together, growing,

900
01:03:15,230 --> 01:03:20,160
training. A lot has happened
over that time, but I was never...

901
01:03:21,790 --> 01:03:25,507
Well, maybe just a couple
of times, okay? Mostly, I was

902
01:03:25,590 --> 01:03:29,610
never the initiator of fights
with some exceptions.

903
01:03:30,450 --> 01:03:33,550
I just remember since childhood,
my father always told me,

904
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:40,870
"You don't need to use force on the
street." My father looked at all of this

905
01:03:41,730 --> 01:03:43,230
in a completely different way.

906
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:48,203
- What is your understanding of the
difference between the street fight

907
01:03:48,286 --> 01:03:49,120
and sports?

908
01:03:49,790 --> 01:03:54,790
- There is a very big difference.
I saw many fights where

909
01:03:56,690 --> 01:04:02,370
if you put those same guys into sparring,
in wrestling, MMA or combat Sambo,

910
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,787
one guy could beat the other
very easily. But the street is

911
01:04:07,870 --> 01:04:12,790
completely different. There are
no rules, no referees, no points.

912
01:04:13,770 --> 01:04:17,950
You just fight there,
and it's totally different.

913
01:04:18,770 --> 01:04:24,130
I can say I actually had
a major turning point in my life.

914
01:04:26,910 --> 01:04:31,003
Let's say the one that,
in terms of psychology,

915
01:04:31,086 --> 01:04:36,330
really changed my whole
attitude towards MMA.

916
01:04:37,250 --> 01:04:41,330
Back in twenty oh two, twenty oh three,
my father kept me in wrestling.

917
01:04:42,350 --> 01:04:46,287
He trained MMA combat Sambo,
but wanted me to stay

918
01:04:46,370 --> 01:04:50,530
in wrestling. My cousin, who was older
than me by a couple of months,

919
01:04:52,090 --> 01:04:55,470
he was training with my father.
His freestyle wrestling was weak,

920
01:04:56,050 --> 01:04:59,470
so my father sent him to me,
to the place where I was training.

921
01:05:00,650 --> 01:05:04,487
It was called the School of Higher
Sports Mastery. The local guys

922
01:05:04,570 --> 01:05:10,947
from the city know this place. He came
to practice and got into it with a guy

923
01:05:11,030 --> 01:05:14,767
in our gym who was heavier, maybe one

924
01:05:14,850 --> 01:05:18,090
class heavier. This guy
was the best in his weight,

925
01:05:18,570 --> 01:05:24,330
winning Dagestan and the city too.
So they got into a conflict.

926
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:32,750
They were arguing. My brother
had just joined. He was new to

927
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:36,627
our freestyle wrestling gym,
right? But I knew the other guy

928
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:41,510
well. They paired up and they got into it.
Well, that's my brother, right?

929
01:05:42,910 --> 01:05:46,467
So the guy goes, "Let's
meet up after." And they

930
01:05:46,550 --> 01:05:50,390
agreed, as we say, to step
outside after the training.

931
01:05:50,690 --> 01:05:57,690
I remember it was raining heavily, a real
downpour. The guy brought his brother. I

932
01:05:58,470 --> 01:06:04,490
came with mine. We went outside
and they started fighting one-on-one.

933
01:06:05,550 --> 01:06:08,810
I remember he shot in,
lifted and took him down.

934
01:06:09,090 --> 01:06:12,690
Abdurakhman, my brother, threw up
a triangle and he choked him out.

935
01:06:15,410 --> 01:06:21,087
When we went out, I was thinking
Abdurakhman will lose to this guy. I even

936
01:06:21,170 --> 01:06:26,580
visualized it happening, the whole thing.
Like, this guy beats him, and then

937
01:06:27,550 --> 01:06:30,990
I start fighting. Well, I'm not
going there for my brother to lose.

938
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:33,750
In my head, I was getting into a fight.

939
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,837
But he threw him locked up in a triangle.
For the first time I saw

940
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:42,477
with my own eyes how someone
chokes another person with a

941
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,000
triangle and they lose consciousness.

942
01:06:45,860 --> 01:06:46,647
- Wow.

943
01:06:46,730 --> 01:06:53,480
- They fought, he put him to sleep. We
had to pull them apart, me and other guys.

944
01:06:55,220 --> 01:06:59,600
Fights over, Abdurrahman won. And on the
way home, I'm like, "Abdurrahman, wow.

945
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:05,760
You impress me." I came home
and immediately told my father.

946
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:11,730
I said... That was in 2002
or '03, if I'm not mistaken.

947
01:07:12,980 --> 01:07:16,600
I am 14 years old. I said,
"I'm switching to combat Sambo."

948
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,877
I said, "What Abdurrahman did,
the one he choked out, he's

949
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,730
not just anyone in the gym.
He's one of the best wrestlers,

950
01:07:24,820 --> 01:07:26,270
but he couldn't do anything."

951
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:31,260
My father said, "You'll go
to wrestling, but you'll come to me,

952
01:07:31,580 --> 01:07:34,540
I'll teach you. You'll learn
techniques here and so on.

953
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,320
But I want you to gain wrestling
skills." I started going three

954
01:07:40,420 --> 01:07:43,120
days to train with my father,
three days to wrestling.

955
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:48,160
And at that moment, I realized that no
matter how strong the wrestler is,

956
01:07:49,420 --> 01:07:53,280
lying on the back is where
the wrestling normally ends,

957
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,310
but MMA only begins there. And I was like,

958
01:07:58,420 --> 01:08:02,560
I thought, "I need this. I need this mixed
style." I realized this was for me.

959
01:08:03,460 --> 01:08:07,217
I started going to my father's
trainings, despite that he didn't

960
01:08:07,300 --> 01:08:11,057
let me. He didn't want me to do
fighting. I think most people

961
01:08:11,140 --> 01:08:14,920
don't know this. My father wanted
me to do freestyle wrestling or

962
01:08:15,060 --> 01:08:18,677
judo, but in my head,
I already had this mixed style. I

963
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:22,397
always wanted to compete.
I was already getting tapes to

964
01:08:22,480 --> 01:08:26,097
watch. I always wanted
to compete where there are no

965
01:08:26,180 --> 01:08:28,960
rules, where I could fully use my skills.

966
01:08:29,540 --> 01:08:33,980
- Maximum freedom. - Yes, judo,
Sambo, freestyle, grappling,

967
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:37,520
jujitsu. More people knew
jujitsu than grappling.

968
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,797
After that, I switched,
and from there my journey slowly

969
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:48,180
started, which I had already begun.
That's when I started the amateur journey.

970
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,357
Then when I started getting
good results as an amateur, I

971
01:08:53,440 --> 01:08:57,420
realized that I can switch
to pro and achieve success.

972
01:08:57,740 --> 01:09:01,600
Sambo. In combat Sambo.
Combat Sambo. I competed in

973
01:09:01,700 --> 01:09:05,440
all kinds of sports.
Everything that involves wrestling and

974
01:09:05,540 --> 01:09:09,180
fighting. I competed everywhere.
I competed in freestyle, in

975
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:13,057
judo, in grappling, in combat Sambo.
I competed in sport

976
01:09:13,140 --> 01:09:16,940
Sambo, in hand-to-hand combat,
in pankration. My father

977
01:09:17,060 --> 01:09:20,777
put me in all competitions.
He would say, "You have a

978
01:09:20,860 --> 01:09:24,297
competition here and another
one there. Now you are

979
01:09:24,380 --> 01:09:28,257
preparing for this one. You will
compete in this weight, under these

980
01:09:28,340 --> 01:09:32,117
rules, in this sport." And he
was sending me everywhere. He would tell

981
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:36,117
me, "You will need this in the future.
The more competition experience you have,

982
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,660
the more relaxed and confident
you'll feel. It builds up over time."

983
01:09:40,260 --> 01:09:44,080
When I was young, I was losing as well.
I go to a judo competition,

984
01:09:44,300 --> 01:09:48,237
win two matches and lose two matches.
I would ask, "Father, why are

985
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,379
you sending me there?
This is not my sport." And he'd say, "No,

986
01:09:51,462 --> 01:09:52,295
go and compete."

987
01:09:53,380 --> 01:09:57,197
So, okay, I went, I cut
weight. The next day you

988
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:01,177
come in, you see 50 competitors
in your weight class. You

989
01:10:01,260 --> 01:10:05,117
let this weight,
this competitive energy pass

990
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,940
through you, and psychologically
you get better, better,

991
01:10:09,060 --> 01:10:12,100
better each time.
You become more relaxed about it.

992
01:10:13,300 --> 01:10:17,237
And this moment really affected me,
although then I didn't

993
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:21,117
agree with my father.
Back then I thought, "Why should I

994
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:27,020
compete in other sports?" He said, "You
can wrestle, right? Well, go wrestle."

995
01:10:28,140 --> 01:10:32,020
I was saying, "But judo isn't my sport.
It's hard for me there."

996
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:36,437
He says, "Well, you went
on four times. Look, you won

997
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:40,057
twice, then lost twice.
You competed four times. You're

998
01:10:40,140 --> 01:10:42,340
15 years old. You're just developing.

999
01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:46,620
Do you know how valuable
this experience is for you?

1000
01:10:47,480 --> 01:10:51,300
Four matches in one day."
Now when I'm coaching,

1001
01:10:51,980 --> 01:10:58,757
I understand the psychological approach,
how important it is. I realize now how

1002
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,320
correctly he prepared
me for the big stage.

1003
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:06,897
The preparation was already
happening then when I was

1004
01:11:06,980 --> 01:11:10,940
15 years old. For example,
when I went into the biggest

1005
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:14,980
fight in combat sports
history, when I fought in

1006
01:11:15,300 --> 01:11:22,060
2018 here in Las Vegas. At that point,
I was already at my peak, prime time.

1007
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:29,720
I was 30 years old. I went through
all possible competitions as an amateur

1008
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:34,120
and a professional.
And you know what? I was ready.

1009
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,600
This preparation, it started
back then when I was 15.

1010
01:11:40,140 --> 01:11:44,000
It's not like they give you a fight
and you prepare for two months.

1011
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:48,600
Preparation starts long before
you even step into the octagon.

1012
01:11:50,140 --> 01:11:54,822
- So this experience of competitions,
which started at 15, it continued,

1013
01:11:54,906 --> 01:11:56,640
it expanded. - Yeah, of course.

1014
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:00,180
- So can you explain what
was going on in your head?

1015
01:12:01,460 --> 01:12:05,080
- I didn't want to lose. I just didn't. It

1016
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,880
never occurred to me that I
could get hurt, that someone could

1017
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,777
hurt me, that I might break
a finger somewhere. I never

1018
01:12:12,860 --> 01:12:17,460
had that in my head, that I could get hit,
that I'd get a scratch, and so on.

1019
01:12:18,300 --> 01:12:20,700
I don't know if you can
call it perfectionism.

1020
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,757
I didn't want to lose.
And to not lose, I knew I needed

1021
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:29,757
to compete a lot and improve. Training is

1022
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:33,740
one thing, but competing is different.
I understood that the more

1023
01:12:33,860 --> 01:12:37,660
I competed, the more experience I
would gain. I had to go through it.

1024
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:42,197
It was constantly on my mind.
This understanding that I

1025
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:46,140
must compete a lot came
to me at an early age, since

1026
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,920
I was fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen, eighteen, and I

1027
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:55,260
never stopped thinking about it.
So it was always in the back of my mind.

1028
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:58,280
- Were you confident that you would win?

1029
01:12:58,700 --> 01:12:59,600
- In my youth? No.

1030
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:01,397
- Were you afraid to lose?

1031
01:13:01,480 --> 01:13:04,880
- Yeah, in my youth, I wasn't
always so sure. I just wasn't.

1032
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:08,980
Because I never stood out.
Yes, I had a coach for a

1033
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:13,320
father, and how many,
how many trainers have kids who

1034
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:18,057
compete but aren't successful?
And then when I went to

1035
01:13:18,140 --> 01:13:22,117
the big leagues, you know,
I had already fought. I had done

1036
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,470
sixteen professional fights
across the post-Soviet space.

1037
01:13:26,100 --> 01:13:29,240
Later, when I was already
signed to the UFC,

1038
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,710
there I already had this feeling.
You know, with

1039
01:13:33,860 --> 01:13:37,557
each fight, I was getting
mentally stronger.

1040
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:42,000
My mind was becoming more
and more solid, like concrete.

1041
01:13:43,190 --> 01:13:49,860
When I went out there, I knew, yes,
these are fights. Yes, you can take a hit.

1042
01:13:50,620 --> 01:13:54,950
Yes, anything can happen when
knees, elbows, fists are flying,

1043
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,050
when you can get caught
in a choke, you know?

1044
01:13:59,150 --> 01:14:04,100
But I thought, "If they don't
knock me out, how will they beat me?

1045
01:14:05,060 --> 01:14:10,080
I have fifteen minutes. Fifteen minutes
is enough to make a person tired."

1046
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:16,400
I'm like, "Okay, if you wanna stop me,
come here. I'll give you that chance.

1047
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:22,340
Let's get in the octagon."
I had this impatience during fight week.

1048
01:14:23,260 --> 01:14:27,197
I wanted to go in there
and feel my opponent. I just

1049
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:31,037
wanted to be inside
the cage for them to close

1050
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,420
us in, for the referee to say,
"Ready? Ready. Fight."

1051
01:14:36,380 --> 01:14:40,180
And here I wanted to feel,
to grapple with him and

1052
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:43,950
feel his strength, his skills, his energy,

1053
01:14:44,380 --> 01:14:48,257
and for it not to stop.
And with any opponent I

1054
01:14:48,340 --> 01:14:52,860
felt from the beginning, and I didn't
actually have superhuman strength.

1055
01:14:53,980 --> 01:14:57,917
But from the beginning, when I
grabbed them in the first minute and

1056
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:02,340
then in the sixth or seventh minute,
I could feel them fading.

1057
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:08,630
I was, let's say, like squeezing
this energy out of them,

1058
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,700
and I was getting better
and better minute by minute.

1059
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:18,460
- Can you break down the technical
details of your top pressure?

1060
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:24,360
That pressure you put on in wrestling,
on the ground, all of it.

1061
01:15:26,060 --> 01:15:29,010
How does it work?
Can you explain the philosophy behind it?

1062
01:15:29,740 --> 01:15:33,697
- Over the years, I've learned
to use my strength properly. There's

1063
01:15:33,780 --> 01:15:37,580
this sport called aikido.
I don't like it much, but

1064
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:41,940
I like their philosophy, where
your strength might work against you.

1065
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:46,997
I think for a lot of listeners, this
is gonna be a brand-new sport. But there

1066
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:50,697
is this sport called aikido,
and the whole philosophy

1067
01:15:50,780 --> 01:15:55,980
behind it is using your opponent's force
against them. That's what I learned to do.

1068
01:15:57,220 --> 01:16:00,880
And I have learned to force
an opponent into positions

1069
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:05,477
where they have to escape wasting
their energy. Like when we were sparring

1070
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:11,220
yesterday. That's exactly what I wanted.
I wanted you to feel that energy,

1071
01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:14,660
that heavy top pressure.
We could have just played around.

1072
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:19,753
I could have gone easy on you,
but I wanted you to feel the real heavy

1073
01:16:19,836 --> 01:16:20,669
pressure.

1074
01:16:21,170 --> 01:16:23,776
And of course, please don't
think it was a sign of disrespect.

1075
01:16:23,859 --> 01:16:26,160
It's quite the opposite.
- No, it was respect.

1076
01:16:26,580 --> 01:16:28,380
- I just wanted you to feel that,

1077
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:34,457
you know, how exhausting it can be.
I think you felt it yourself that it

1078
01:16:34,540 --> 01:16:38,437
was a bit different from the
kind of grappling you've dealt

1079
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:39,920
with before. I'm sure of it.

1080
01:16:40,420 --> 01:16:42,663
- The only one who's even
close to that is, I mean,

1081
01:16:42,746 --> 01:16:44,296
you're the absolute number one.

1082
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,794
But the only thing is, when I trained
with Roger Gracie in a different sport,

1083
01:16:47,877 --> 01:16:50,837
you get that same feeling with him.
Like, the guy is just insanely heavy.

1084
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:54,497
- Mm-hmm. Pressure. Pressure.
Well, Roger, he's the

1085
01:16:54,580 --> 01:16:58,480
greatest, too.
He's the greatest in his own sport. What

1086
01:16:58,580 --> 01:17:03,340
makes a person unique is his style,
his style and his approach

1087
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:10,160
to his work. I always approach
my craft very professionally, you know,

1088
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:14,560
respectfully. I believe that if
you're gonna be in this game,

1089
01:17:15,480 --> 01:17:19,620
in this sport, you have
to completely dedicate yourself to it.

1090
01:17:20,260 --> 01:17:23,657
- But I think you had a deep understanding
of how to break an opponent, both

1091
01:17:23,740 --> 01:17:27,120
physically and psychologically,
just looking at your style.

1092
01:17:28,420 --> 01:17:32,960
- I've always been right there,
always fighting for position. I always--

1093
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:38,360
Look, I mean that I just always
had this thought in my head.

1094
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,580
My grandfather always told me,
"A dog that latches onto that one weak

1095
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:47,000
spot always wins."

1096
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:52,597
It's the same with a fighter.
When you're fighting on pure instinct, you

1097
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:56,597
feel your opponent's weakness. You
know where they're weak, and you have to

1098
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:03,560
keep pressing right there.
For example, let's say I'm fighting Conor,

1099
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:10,520
right? His strengths are his striking,
his timing and his speed, his boxing.

1100
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:15,397
Why would I stand and strike with him?
What am I supposed to do? I have to

1101
01:18:15,480 --> 01:18:18,140
put pressure on his weak spot. So,

1102
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,757
That's what separates
the fighters who reach success, the

1103
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:26,480
highest level of success,
and become the best of the best.

1104
01:18:27,480 --> 01:18:31,397
They know how to find
an opponent's weakness, and

1105
01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:35,160
they pressure it relentlessly. So, mm,

1106
01:18:36,220 --> 01:18:39,170
so it all comes down to having
the right strategy here.

1107
01:18:40,420 --> 01:18:42,870
- Your fight with Conor,
I think, was the biggest

1108
01:18:43,260 --> 01:18:45,720
fight in UFC history. That's for sure.

1109
01:18:46,580 --> 01:18:50,390
Well, actually, in all of sports.
Do you think there will ever be another

1110
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,360
fight of that magnitude in the UFC?
Is it even possible?

1111
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,740
- Well, let's look at the history here.

1112
01:19:00,420 --> 01:19:04,357
I mean, our sport is still
very young, say thirty-five

1113
01:19:04,440 --> 01:19:08,980
years old, starting from the '90s.
Put it this way.

1114
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,820
Take, for example,
the sport most similar to MMA,

1115
01:19:14,260 --> 01:19:18,900
which is, well, let's say boxing. How
old is boxing? A hundred and fifty years?

1116
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,840
Like, when you think boxing, what
pops into your head? Thrilla in Manila?

1117
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:27,580
- Yeah, yeah. Well,
I love Mike Tyson a lot too, so.

1118
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:31,220
- Well, Tyson had big fights,
but Mike Tyson never had that,

1119
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:35,597
Signature rival like Muhammad
Ali had in Joe Frazier.

1120
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:37,180
Yeah, he just didn't have one.

1121
01:19:38,060 --> 01:19:42,600
I mean, who do we have? Evander Holyfield?
Look, Holyfield-Tyson is no Muhammad Ali.

1122
01:19:44,340 --> 01:19:47,020
Take Ali and Frazier,
Thrilla in Manila, right?

1123
01:19:48,900 --> 01:19:50,800
People called it the greatest rivalry,

1124
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:55,677
and it still is. In the 20th
century, there was nothing

1125
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:59,457
that could compare. In the 21st
century, the only thing you could

1126
01:19:59,540 --> 01:20:03,780
compare to it, purely based on the
numbers, is Pacquiao and Mayweather.

1127
01:20:04,900 --> 01:20:08,100
Yes, there was public interest,
but there wasn't the energy that there was

1128
01:20:08,183 --> 01:20:09,883
with Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier.

1129
01:20:11,420 --> 01:20:14,770
- Yeah, if I can just pause for a
second, I'll check on Perplexity.

1130
01:20:15,260 --> 01:20:19,260
List the biggest boxing fights of all
time. It's Ali and Frazier, like you said.

1131
01:20:19,500 --> 01:20:21,920
- Yeah, yeah. - The first, the third.

1132
01:20:22,010 --> 01:20:25,510
- Well, when he lost, and then
the third fight, the Thrilla in Manila.

1133
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:28,000
- And Foreman, I must
say Ali versus Foreman.

1134
01:20:28,100 --> 01:20:30,960
- Well, Foreman, that was the year,
I think, '74, right?

1135
01:20:31,490 --> 01:20:34,490
- The fight was watched by up
to a billion people worldwide.

1136
01:20:34,660 --> 01:20:38,610
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was one of those
things. Politics got mixed into it too.

1137
01:20:39,260 --> 01:20:41,340
Well, it was actually a very big fight.

1138
01:20:41,860 --> 01:20:45,700
- Sugar Ray Leonard, Duran, Sugar
Ray Leonard versus Thomas Hearns,

1139
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:51,100
Hagler versus Hearns. - Well, Hagler.
Hagler and Duran in Montreal.

1140
01:20:51,260 --> 01:20:55,097
Sugar Ray Leonard and Duran
in Montreal when they fought, when

1141
01:20:55,180 --> 01:20:59,057
he admitted after the fight that he lost
the mental game and broke down before

1142
01:20:59,140 --> 01:21:01,480
the fight. But then
Sugar Ray beat him later.

1143
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:03,737
- Yeah, he came back and won.

1144
01:21:03,820 --> 01:21:08,720
- Yeah. Well, if you look at it out
of everything that stands out, I think,

1145
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:12,857
You can mention Frazier and Muhammad Ali.
And there was also

1146
01:21:12,940 --> 01:21:16,617
Joe Louis against German
Max Schmeling. Hitler stood

1147
01:21:16,700 --> 01:21:20,597
behind Schmeling, and Roosevelt stood
behind Louis. For those who don't know

1148
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,840
this story, I just watched it recently.

1149
01:21:24,100 --> 01:21:28,540
It was something incomparable. They
were so big. They were two of the most,

1150
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:34,987
the most famous athletes of their time.
Roosevelt was promoting Joe Louis,

1151
01:21:35,070 --> 01:21:35,903
you know?

1152
01:21:37,060 --> 01:21:40,857
At that moment for America,
it was like something incredible that a

1153
01:21:40,940 --> 01:21:44,800
white president was promoting
a Black world champion.

1154
01:21:45,060 --> 01:21:48,457
And on the other hand,
Hitler stood behind Schmeling.

1155
01:21:48,540 --> 01:21:52,090
- It was what? Nineteen thirty-six,
nineteen thirty-eight. They had-

1156
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,090
- They fought twice? - Twice.

1157
01:21:54,500 --> 01:21:56,397
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They fought two times.

1158
01:21:56,480 --> 01:22:00,317
- This wasn't just a good
boxing match, just a good fight.

1159
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,157
This was politics. Those were nations.

1160
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:05,717
- This was politics. This was nations.

1161
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:07,177
- Everything. - It all came together.

1162
01:22:07,260 --> 01:22:11,017
- And it's the same thing with Ali too.
Muhammad Ali with the Vietnam

1163
01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:13,240
War, all that stuff. - Yes, yes.

1164
01:22:13,410 --> 01:22:17,210
- And his, and even religion is tied
into it. Everything here came together.

1165
01:22:17,440 --> 01:22:19,820
- They simply went beyond sports.

1166
01:22:20,740 --> 01:22:24,557
It was the exact same thing
when I fought Conor. That fight

1167
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:29,080
went beyond our sport.
It impacted every sport because

1168
01:22:30,440 --> 01:22:32,600
athletes of all kinds of different sports,

1169
01:22:33,620 --> 01:22:36,970
everyone who loves to compete,
it didn't matter if it was

1170
01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:41,057
football, basketball, soccer,
or boxing, everyone was

1171
01:22:41,140 --> 01:22:46,240
following this. And honestly,
will there be a fight like that?

1172
01:22:47,300 --> 01:22:51,060
Well, it's hard for me to say,
but I think it'll happen. It'll happen

1173
01:22:51,180 --> 01:22:55,040
for sure. There will always be champions.
There will always be rivalries.

1174
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:58,500
But when it'll happen,
that's just a matter of time.

1175
01:22:59,260 --> 01:23:02,357
- So it's not entirely about the athletes.
It's about everything combined.

1176
01:23:02,440 --> 01:23:06,277
- Yeah. It's everything combined. The way
he talked, what he stirred up, the lines

1177
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:09,837
he crossed, touching
on family, religion. And

1178
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,517
then somehow on one side
you had Conor, this really

1179
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:17,397
interesting champion who knew how to hype
himself up, and on the other side, you

1180
01:23:17,480 --> 01:23:21,960
had this undefeated somebody
from nowhere, from the mountains.

1181
01:23:22,820 --> 01:23:28,200
You know how it is. It all somehow,
all of it just kind of happened naturally.

1182
01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:32,297
And it wasn't staged.
It was real. We had a real

1183
01:23:32,380 --> 01:23:36,230
rivalry, unlike the way a lot of people
now just hype up interest in a fight,

1184
01:23:36,420 --> 01:23:39,340
but people feel that energy.
It doesn't go anywhere.

1185
01:23:40,440 --> 01:23:44,140
People can tell what's real and what's
fake. And because of that, we went,

1186
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:49,040
we went beyond our own sport.
That's what made this fight so massive.

1187
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:52,720
- Well, when you look into
your heart back then and now,

1188
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,740
did you have anger?
Did you have hatred for him?

1189
01:23:57,420 --> 01:24:01,300
- Back then and even now,
I'd still keep a cool head.

1190
01:24:02,820 --> 01:24:06,680
Nothing has changed.
When you let your emotions take over,

1191
01:24:06,900 --> 01:24:10,377
when they're off the charts
and you completely lose

1192
01:24:10,460 --> 01:24:14,560
control, that's a very bad place to be. So

1193
01:24:15,620 --> 01:24:22,620
you'll tire out faster. You'll fall.
You'll fall for any kind of bait and so

1194
01:24:22,939 --> 01:24:28,180
on. I just knew that I
needed to stay calm, composed,

1195
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:32,983
to stick to the plan
no matter what happened,

1196
01:24:33,067 --> 01:24:35,960
and not go beyond my emotional limits.

1197
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:43,780
This is a very, very dangerous moment
when you give in to your emotions

1198
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:49,140
You have to control them.
Every single detail, every little thing

1199
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,900
has to be perfectly in place.
The second you let it all

1200
01:24:53,060 --> 01:24:55,740
slip, everything becomes a total mess.

1201
01:24:57,020 --> 01:25:01,080
So once the fight was finally done,
I just let all my emotions out.

1202
01:25:02,140 --> 01:25:06,100
I had to step right in and prove it,
and punish him, and show them

1203
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:10,157
I'm better, that I'm better than him,
and put a final end to this whole

1204
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:14,380
bitter rivalry. When all of that
was over- - Your emotions came out?

1205
01:25:14,580 --> 01:25:18,177
-... that's when my emotions just went
over the edge. But until the fight was

1206
01:25:18,260 --> 01:25:21,940
completely finished,
starting from training, you know,

1207
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:25,224
at the press conferences,
at the weigh-ins, everywhere,

1208
01:25:25,307 --> 01:25:26,407
in front of the media,

1209
01:25:26,500 --> 01:25:30,400
everywhere, I kept myself completely
under control, and I was very good at it.

1210
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:35,740
Honestly, looking back it's
been almost eight years now.

1211
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:41,397
Looking back, well, I'm a little
surprised. At that point, I was a very

1212
01:25:41,480 --> 01:25:45,377
emotional guy, too. Over these
eight years a lot has happened

1213
01:25:45,460 --> 01:25:49,357
in my life, but I'm surprised
that I kept it together. And

1214
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:53,297
well, you know, it wasn't
easy for me to keep myself

1215
01:25:53,380 --> 01:25:57,180
within my limits, to keep
myself under control like that.

1216
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:01,740
But here, again, I'll come
back to what I said, I was

1217
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:07,737
very lucky. My father called me
at that time I was here two months before

1218
01:26:07,821 --> 01:26:08,654
the fight.

1219
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,910
His advice helped me out so
much because for me it was

1220
01:26:15,020 --> 01:26:18,847
not just that it mattered,
it was actually the most important

1221
01:26:18,930 --> 01:26:22,437
thing for me back then just to know my

1222
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:26,080
father's reaction,
how he was taking everything

1223
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:30,117
that was happening, because
there was just so much media

1224
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,680
coverage, so I knew
my father was watching.

1225
01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:38,260
It was important for me
to know his take. I'd call and

1226
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:42,237
ask, and my father would even tell
me things I hadn't even asked him

1227
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:46,257
about. He'd bring it up on his own.
Because you know the way it

1228
01:26:46,340 --> 01:26:50,260
is with us, between me and my father,
in our traditions, in our

1229
01:26:50,380 --> 01:26:54,117
part of the world, in our family
for generations, in our village, there's

1230
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:58,137
just always this distance with your
father. Like, when you walk in, there

1231
01:26:58,220 --> 01:27:02,060
are just so many things you can't let
yourself do in front of your father.

1232
01:27:02,380 --> 01:27:06,257
You have to be like,
sort of like a soldier in front of a

1233
01:27:06,340 --> 01:27:10,217
general, right? If you can even
make that comparison. If a soldier

1234
01:27:10,300 --> 01:27:16,320
stands at attention like that, then with
us it's even, even stricter. Like even,

1235
01:27:18,100 --> 01:27:20,760
just to give an example here.
For instance,

1236
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:26,337
imagine you're a father sitting there,
right? And your two-year-old

1237
01:27:26,420 --> 01:27:28,770
kid walks up to you
and wants to play with you.

1238
01:27:29,740 --> 01:27:33,000
You can't even, like, do that baby
talk thing with your own kid.

1239
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:34,997
- You don't have that kind of friendship.

1240
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,437
- You know it's a friendship,
but- - It's different, yes.

1241
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,437
- There's a certain distance that you
must keep around your father. You always

1242
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:44,500
have to be, like, completely buttoned up.

1243
01:27:45,220 --> 01:27:47,803
You have to stand like a soldier
in front of your father.

1244
01:27:47,887 --> 01:27:52,977
You don't let your emotions take over.
At that point, just to know

1245
01:27:53,060 --> 01:27:56,840
what my father thought, who was,
like, all the way across the ocean,

1246
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:01,120
who couldn't just fly out
and be there to support his son

1247
01:28:02,780 --> 01:28:06,537
and just be there by my side.
But for me, since he didn't have a

1248
01:28:06,620 --> 01:28:10,557
visa, I just had to know exactly
what he thought. I didn't care what

1249
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:14,000
anyone else thought. I didn't
care about the opinions of, like,

1250
01:28:14,220 --> 01:28:18,177
millions, tens of millions,
hundreds of millions watching this

1251
01:28:18,260 --> 01:28:22,140
fight. I only ever cared
about one person and his take,

1252
01:28:22,620 --> 01:28:26,960
what he thought and what he'd say to me.
But I couldn't call him and say,

1253
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:30,070
"Father, what do you think about this?"

1254
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:34,620
Well, we never had that. Well,
you had to wait. I would just call

1255
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:38,477
and wait to hear what he'd say.
And my father, he knew

1256
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,417
exactly where to draw the line
because he was in the exact

1257
01:28:42,500 --> 01:28:46,237
same position with his own father
since his own father was still

1258
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:49,610
around. And then he had a son, too, right?

1259
01:28:50,340 --> 01:28:53,657
And he understood me,
how I felt about him, since his

1260
01:28:53,740 --> 01:28:56,240
relationship with his own
father was the same way.

1261
01:28:57,780 --> 01:29:01,740
And in that sense, back then, my father
really kept me grounded mentally.

1262
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:07,580
He even told me something once.

1263
01:29:08,500 --> 01:29:14,260
Do you know how diamonds are, like,
actually made? Under great pressure.

1264
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:18,100
He says, "You're under great
pressure, and you have a choice.

1265
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:23,680
You can break down and give up,
or you can get through it all

1266
01:29:24,940 --> 01:29:26,920
properly, clearly, with dignity.

1267
01:29:28,060 --> 01:29:31,657
Go in, prepare right, make weight,
recover, go in, win, and

1268
01:29:31,740 --> 01:29:35,517
settle it once and for all."
And those exact kinds of

1269
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:39,420
moments, they really,
they deeply impacted me.

1270
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:44,940
- So because of those words,
you could cut everything off? Focus.

1271
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:51,160
- Well- - Mentally. - Mentally. Like,
if a million people showed up right there

1272
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:54,940
and told me right outside where I
was staying, at the hotel, right?

1273
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,917
Like, if a million people
gathered right under my window and

1274
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:00,650
said, "Hey, we've got your back."

1275
01:30:01,500 --> 01:30:05,357
And honestly, just one call
from my father, it wouldn't even

1276
01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:09,197
compare, because that one call
from my father, that one piece of

1277
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:12,960
advice, his support,
his voice, it charged me up

1278
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:16,000
way more than absolutely
everything else combined.

1279
01:30:17,980 --> 01:30:21,797
- But I must say, José Aldo,
who is one of the greatest

1280
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:25,617
fighters of all time, and still Conor was

1281
01:30:25,700 --> 01:30:29,437
arguably able
to psychologically break him.

1282
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:33,167
But with you, it seems like
Conor was not able to mentally

1283
01:30:33,250 --> 01:30:37,280
affect you. Did he manage to get
into your head even a little?

1284
01:30:37,420 --> 01:30:43,660
- No, not at all.
I had a clear understanding that

1285
01:30:44,700 --> 01:30:48,996
physically and mentally I
was just way stronger than him.

1286
01:30:49,079 --> 01:30:51,000
I didn't doubt myself for

1287
01:30:51,900 --> 01:30:54,690
even 1%. Well, people,

1288
01:30:56,130 --> 01:30:59,910
they can say whatever they want.
He's got a massive fan base too.

1289
01:31:00,610 --> 01:31:02,410
Maybe they won't agree with that.

1290
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:07,667
But the Almighty gave me this unshakable
confidence that is just really hard for

1291
01:31:07,750 --> 01:31:14,750
me to even put into words. And I just
deeply believe that I was better than

1292
01:31:15,190 --> 01:31:20,030
him and that I was stronger than him,
and that in this matchup, well,

1293
01:31:21,150 --> 01:31:25,210
I was supposed to win. I just had
this rock solid faith in myself.

1294
01:31:26,650 --> 01:31:32,390
- Up until that moment, is it fair
to say that this was your toughest fight?

1295
01:31:32,530 --> 01:31:34,230
- Up until that moment? - Correct.

1296
01:31:34,470 --> 01:31:38,900
- One hundred percent. Because
fighting's all psychology, you know?

1297
01:31:40,030 --> 01:31:44,210
It's a mental game. Mentally speaking,
that was my toughest fight.

1298
01:31:47,030 --> 01:31:49,860
At that point, yeah.
But a tougher fight came later.

1299
01:31:50,510 --> 01:31:52,060
- With Gaethje? - With Gaethje.

1300
01:31:52,650 --> 01:31:54,987
- There were a lot of factors
that made it so tough.

1301
01:31:55,070 --> 01:31:59,110
- Yes. - So can you explain?
You said somewhere that actually,

1302
01:32:00,890 --> 01:32:04,647
unfortunately, or at least from my
perspective, unfortunately, we never

1303
01:32:04,730 --> 01:32:08,207
got to see your absolute limit.
Were you, uh-

1304
01:32:08,290 --> 01:32:12,907
- Not in fights, no.
You've never seen my limit in fights.

1305
01:32:12,990 --> 01:32:16,850
- But you said that Gaethje
was the closest to it

1306
01:32:17,310 --> 01:32:21,200
'cause of the whole process.
Can you explain why it was a tough fight,

1307
01:32:21,410 --> 01:32:22,243
your last one?

1308
01:32:22,990 --> 01:32:26,787
- First and foremost, it was because I
had lost my father. It was hard to pull

1309
01:32:26,870 --> 01:32:30,647
myself together. Everything
piled up at once. My father was

1310
01:32:30,730 --> 01:32:33,280
gone. And training without my father,

1311
01:32:35,430 --> 01:32:39,327
without the person I was doing
all of this for, the person I

1312
01:32:39,410 --> 01:32:43,660
wanted to become champion for,
first and foremost, to prove to him,

1313
01:32:44,850 --> 01:32:49,610
uh, to prove to him that I
could become the best.

1314
01:32:50,890 --> 01:32:54,790
And then the training
camp itself, physically

1315
01:32:54,930 --> 01:32:59,450
I was not in the best shape.
I had injury after injury after injury.

1316
01:33:00,590 --> 01:33:07,590
But mentally speaking, I stayed
completely sharp. Well, this is when you

1317
01:33:08,290 --> 01:33:11,910
got injuries, your mental
game can slip a little,

1318
01:33:12,950 --> 01:33:16,610
or things at home are going bad.
All of that impacts a person.

1319
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:22,690
One, two, three, four. All these things
affect you. You become, let's say not,

1320
01:33:22,810 --> 01:33:26,707
not sharp. You lose your fire. Your fire

1321
01:33:26,790 --> 01:33:30,050
leaves you, your focus leaves you,
your head is somewhere else.

1322
01:33:30,730 --> 01:33:34,227
Even though you are physically
there, mentally you are somewhere

1323
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:37,210
else. But I always
stayed there. I knew it.

1324
01:33:38,490 --> 01:33:42,290
Nobody had any idea that was
going to be my last fight. No

1325
01:33:42,390 --> 01:33:44,970
one knew about the talk
I had with my mother.

1326
01:33:45,350 --> 01:33:46,637
- But you knew and you were sure?

1327
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:50,567
- Well, I knew for myself. This is
my last fight. I was never going to

1328
01:33:50,650 --> 01:33:54,510
step into the cage again.
I knew it, and I had to finish it

1329
01:33:54,750 --> 01:33:56,150
right then and there because

1330
01:33:57,110 --> 01:34:01,067
putting myself through all of that yet
again, it would have just been too

1331
01:34:01,150 --> 01:34:04,930
hard on me if I got injured
and the fight fell through.

1332
01:34:06,910 --> 01:34:10,627
And putting my mother through all
that stress again. I knew that all the

1333
01:34:10,710 --> 01:34:14,690
anxiety I go through for three months
leading up to a fight, my mother

1334
01:34:14,790 --> 01:34:20,227
goes through it too. I understood all of
that. I wanted to put an end to it because

1335
01:34:20,310 --> 01:34:23,147
we'd already had that talk.
We already had an

1336
01:34:23,230 --> 01:34:28,040
agreement. All of that combined,
I mean, mentally it just-- I was,

1337
01:34:28,910 --> 01:34:31,170
you know, I was right on the edge. Like,

1338
01:34:32,970 --> 01:34:35,870
it was a fine line and I
really was on the edge.

1339
01:34:37,290 --> 01:34:39,430
- And I heard or maybe read somewhere

1340
01:34:40,650 --> 01:34:44,547
that you said you were already
starting to miss it while the fight

1341
01:34:44,630 --> 01:34:45,730
was still going on.

1342
01:34:46,340 --> 01:34:50,110
- Yeah, inside the octagon.
I knew it would never happen again.

1343
01:34:50,530 --> 01:34:54,790
I stepped in there and I just took
it all in. I was fighting and just

1344
01:34:55,810 --> 01:35:01,770
every single moment, every moment,
every single move, I felt it deep down.

1345
01:35:02,970 --> 01:35:06,947
And in my head, I already
knew this was the final run.

1346
01:35:07,030 --> 01:35:10,987
Everything I'd been doing my entire
life, it all came down to this.

1347
01:35:11,070 --> 01:35:14,950
That competitive rush,
I'll never feel that anywhere else.

1348
01:35:15,090 --> 01:35:17,270
I knew deep down this was my last fight.

1349
01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:19,800
- What kind of feelings were those?

1350
01:35:20,350 --> 01:35:23,847
- I've never felt anything like
that again. Those feelings could only be

1351
01:35:23,930 --> 01:35:27,867
experienced right there on that
exact day, that very evening, with

1352
01:35:27,950 --> 01:35:31,727
that opponent inside that cage.
I've never had them before that

1353
01:35:31,810 --> 01:35:35,767
night and never had them since.
And I don't think I'll ever be

1354
01:35:35,850 --> 01:35:37,250
able to feel that way again.

1355
01:35:38,730 --> 01:35:42,267
I think Buvaisar said that these
feelings, standing on the podium,

1356
01:35:42,350 --> 01:35:45,947
becoming an Olympic champion,
you only feel them in that moment when

1357
01:35:46,030 --> 01:35:49,450
they announce you. You step
onto the podium. That's it.

1358
01:35:49,970 --> 01:35:53,747
They announced you. You won.
You leave. That's it. You

1359
01:35:53,830 --> 01:35:57,447
only feel them there. You don't feel them
anywhere else. And athletes live for those

1360
01:35:57,530 --> 01:35:59,990
feelings. They train
their whole lives for them.

1361
01:36:01,450 --> 01:36:05,327
- Do you ever think about that?
That in our lives, if we're lucky, we

1362
01:36:05,410 --> 01:36:10,050
only get maybe one or two moments
like that at that absolute peak.

1363
01:36:10,590 --> 01:36:16,515
- Yes. Yes. Yes. Very rarely.
It's so rare. What is happiness really?

1364
01:36:16,598 --> 01:36:21,707
The way I see it is when you experience
certain feelings for a very short

1365
01:36:21,790 --> 01:36:25,707
time. You can't be constantly happy.
Like you achieve

1366
01:36:25,790 --> 01:36:29,850
something and then you're happy for years.
It just doesn't work that way.

1367
01:36:30,770 --> 01:36:34,387
The Almighty didn't build us that way.
You get there even when you

1368
01:36:34,470 --> 01:36:38,107
become a champion and you
fully feel that moment, you

1369
01:36:38,190 --> 01:36:43,850
win. And then you wake up the next morning
and that's it. Is that all I worked for?

1370
01:36:44,850 --> 01:36:49,430
There's nothing more like that.
You know? Like, can I have seconds?

1371
01:36:50,290 --> 01:36:54,430
You can't have seconds. It's like
in our cafeteria. Can I have seconds?

1372
01:36:56,260 --> 01:37:00,177
So well, you become champion,
you win, then you wake up the next

1373
01:37:00,260 --> 01:37:03,450
day. That's it. Your daily
routine continues. It doesn't end.

1374
01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:08,297
You've already got different things
going on, different problems, other

1375
01:37:08,380 --> 01:37:12,257
tasks now, and you're like,
"It all went by so fast." Then you wake

1376
01:37:12,340 --> 01:37:16,180
up the next day, pack your bags,
head to the airport, fly out,

1377
01:37:16,440 --> 01:37:20,257
land back home, everyone's celebrating.
And just like that, the

1378
01:37:20,340 --> 01:37:25,560
next day everyone's gone. That's it.
Everyone lives their own life. And well...

1379
01:37:27,500 --> 01:37:31,340
But later on, there are
moments, well, you know,

1380
01:37:32,260 --> 01:37:35,720
when you still feel the impact
of that success, let's say.

1381
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:41,400
Like let's say public recognition,
for example, people's recognition

1382
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:45,777
and recognition is legacy.
A lot of people get it twisted when

1383
01:37:45,860 --> 01:37:51,470
we start talking about legacy. What even
is a legacy? What does legacy mean, right?

1384
01:37:52,500 --> 01:37:56,417
For me personally,
it is public recognition. Like

1385
01:37:56,500 --> 01:38:00,350
when people come up to you, like parents
come up with their kid and they say,

1386
01:38:00,830 --> 01:38:04,697
"You know, you inspire our son to get
into sports. You're a real role model

1387
01:38:04,780 --> 01:38:09,160
for him." And in that exact
moment, it's like you just--

1388
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:13,060
you start to realize that
none of this was in vain.

1389
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:17,600
But here's the thing. Does everyone
approach every champion like that?

1390
01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:21,740
Every successful person?
Do people even come up to them at all?

1391
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,990
That's the question.
There are people who became champions.

1392
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:29,080
There are people who rose
to the top of their field,

1393
01:38:30,100 --> 01:38:32,480
but they just don't inspire anyone.

1394
01:38:33,660 --> 01:38:37,217
And well, people look at you
like, "Yeah, you were a

1395
01:38:37,300 --> 01:38:39,950
champion, you know,
but nobody wants to be like you."

1396
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:45,960
There are so many people like
that who achieve success, but they,

1397
01:38:47,900 --> 01:38:53,260
they don't inspire the younger
generation because the youth,

1398
01:38:53,700 --> 01:38:57,860
they look at you and they just
don't see you as a good person.

1399
01:38:59,060 --> 01:39:03,900
And looking at it that way, sports,
it's such a double-edged sword.

1400
01:39:06,020 --> 01:39:08,820
- They lost themselves in it
when they became champions.

1401
01:39:09,660 --> 01:39:11,560
Or maybe they never truly were.

1402
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:17,920
If we can, I want to talk about MMA
and football in that same context.

1403
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:23,640
Let's start with MMA. Who do you think
are the greatest fighters of all time?

1404
01:39:24,480 --> 01:39:31,480
You said you have a few favorites. Shogun,
George St-Pierre, and Fedor Emelianenko.

1405
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:37,197
Let's talk about those fighters and maybe
others who interest you. They all

1406
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:41,220
had different distinct styles.
So tell me why Shogun.

1407
01:39:41,420 --> 01:39:45,317
You've always said that he was important
to you as a fighter, and naturally

1408
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:49,077
he had legendary moments
in Pride in two thousand and five.

1409
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:51,340
- His soccer kick. - Yes, that's right.

1410
01:39:51,700 --> 01:39:55,660
- Well, Shogun Rua, when I was fifteen,

1411
01:39:55,860 --> 01:39:59,777
sixteen years old, he was the Pride
champion. At that time, for

1412
01:39:59,860 --> 01:40:03,697
me, it was the best organization
in the world. The best fighters in the

1413
01:40:03,780 --> 01:40:07,180
world competed there.
Fedor, Cro Cop, Shogun,

1414
01:40:07,380 --> 01:40:10,997
Wanderlei Silva,
Anderson Silva. Man, they had

1415
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:14,697
everybody. Overeem,
Dan Henderson, the Nogueira

1416
01:40:14,780 --> 01:40:18,717
brothers, the Emelianenko brothers.
They were the best at

1417
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:22,557
that time for me and honestly
for MMA as a whole. And

1418
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,699
right there in second
place, in my opinion,

1419
01:40:25,783 --> 01:40:28,560
shining right behind Fedor was Shogun.

1420
01:40:29,700 --> 01:40:33,477
And the way he fights, no matter how
they took him down, he'd get right back

1421
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:37,337
up. They couldn't do a thing to him.
Yeah, his wrestling was lacking, but

1422
01:40:37,420 --> 01:40:40,720
his striking, Thai clinch, punches, kicks,

1423
01:40:41,060 --> 01:40:44,657
knees. When he landed those
soccer kicks, well, he really

1424
01:40:44,740 --> 01:40:51,440
appealed to me as a fighter. Very calm,
careful, very emotionally restrained and,

1425
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:56,220
and his fight style. His style
was actually at a very high level.

1426
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:59,500
The way he fought,
no other fighter ever did.

1427
01:41:00,480 --> 01:41:04,117
At that time, he really
impressed me. Then he

1428
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:08,460
crossed over to the UFC
and became the UFC champion.

1429
01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:14,760
And UFC fights and the Pride
fights at that time,

1430
01:41:15,420 --> 01:41:18,080
I didn't have a computer,
internet, none of that.

1431
01:41:19,500 --> 01:41:23,420
I remember there was this video
rental place. We'd grab

1432
01:41:23,540 --> 01:41:27,420
tapes and watch all these
fights with my father.

1433
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:33,017
Mauricio Shogun Rua to me
was like the gold standard of a

1434
01:41:33,100 --> 01:41:40,100
fighter back then. I'd say right
alongside Fedor and George St-Pierre.

1435
01:41:40,440 --> 01:41:43,173
- And by the way, when you watched
the fights with your father,

1436
01:41:43,256 --> 01:41:47,020
did you watch them for fun
or analyze them too?

1437
01:41:47,730 --> 01:41:51,520
- Mostly we analyzed them.
My father always loved to analyze fights.

1438
01:41:52,140 --> 01:41:55,730
We'd sit like this and he'd
say this, this, chokes,

1439
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:59,100
striking, wrestling.
We were constantly analyzing.

1440
01:42:00,140 --> 01:42:03,717
There was a fight in two thousand
and six or two thousand and

1441
01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:07,300
seven. I don't even
remember the exact year.

1442
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:11,700
Approximately around that time when
George St-Pierre fought Sean Sherk.

1443
01:42:12,460 --> 01:42:15,000
We even re-watched that
fight a couple of times.

1444
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:18,820
Then George St-Pierre fought B.J. Penn,

1445
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:23,677
the second fight, I think, after
the fourth round when there was a

1446
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:27,480
stoppage. Then, well,
there were many, many fights

1447
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:31,300
and my father actually
admired the fighting

1448
01:42:31,460 --> 01:42:34,080
style, the fighting
style of George St-Pierre.

1449
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:38,937
He really impressed us.
And my father, my father always

1450
01:42:39,020 --> 01:42:46,020
emphasized his timing of takedowns after
striking how he closed the distance. Um,

1451
01:42:47,140 --> 01:42:51,077
and honestly, my whole,
you know, like teenage conscious

1452
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:54,837
years growing up,
like my formative years transitioning

1453
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:57,720
into an adult, it was all tied to

1454
01:42:58,940 --> 01:43:02,620
tied to Pride in its prime.
And after the UFC bought

1455
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:06,717
Pride and those fighters
crossed over, that whole boom

1456
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:11,440
in 2006, '7, '8 and '9,
the rise of the UFC,

1457
01:43:12,480 --> 01:43:16,280
I remember that era so vividly.
My father and I re-watched so

1458
01:43:16,420 --> 01:43:18,060
many of those UFC fights.

1459
01:43:19,480 --> 01:43:23,037
- Well, I have to ask about Fedor.
What can you say about him? He had some

1460
01:43:23,120 --> 01:43:27,940
legendary fights. He beat Cro
Cop, Big Nog, Mark Coleman.

1461
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:32,620
- Yeah, and Kevin Randleman.
And then he had those

1462
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:36,440
legendary fights with the
Japanese fighters who were big

1463
01:43:36,580 --> 01:43:40,517
stars over there. Man, I loved it.
Honestly, he inspired

1464
01:43:40,600 --> 01:43:44,480
me just by the fact that he
was from Russia and he was a Sambo

1465
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:49,320
fighter. He was closer to our school
of training, Sambo, combat Sambo.

1466
01:43:50,920 --> 01:43:56,637
And there was this moment
back in 2004, the

1467
01:43:56,720 --> 01:44:00,040
Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship.
Can you imagine?

1468
01:44:00,420 --> 01:44:05,784
2004, the Dagestan Combat Sambo
Championship, and Fedor showed up.

1469
01:44:05,867 --> 01:44:08,097
He showed up. - He came.

1470
01:44:08,180 --> 01:44:11,897
- To compete in the Dagestan Open
Combat Sambo Championship while

1471
01:44:11,980 --> 01:44:16,400
being the reigning Pride champion.
I was 15 years old at the time.

1472
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:21,757
I was right there in the venue.
My father actually invited him. He

1473
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:25,580
was sending out invitations
to different schools back then. It was

1474
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:31,460
Stary Oskol where he used to train.
Fedor's coaches were sent an invitation.

1475
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:36,630
He came with his brother, Alexander.
They both made it to the finals back then.

1476
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:40,680
I just remember $5,000, $3,000, $1,000,

1477
01:44:41,020 --> 01:44:44,620
first, second, third place.
At heavyweight, they gave a car.

1478
01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:49,720
When the two brothers arrived,
they beat everyone to get to the finals.

1479
01:44:50,100 --> 01:44:53,737
They didn't fight each other.
One of them took first place. That was

1480
01:44:53,820 --> 01:44:57,620
Fedor. Alexander took second place.
I remember back then

1481
01:44:57,940 --> 01:45:01,158
when he was warming up, I was standing
next to him while he warmed up.

1482
01:45:01,241 --> 01:45:05,430
It was this building, you know,
a venue that fits maybe 1,500 people,

1483
01:45:05,820 --> 01:45:09,477
and over there was this partition,
like a wall, and everyone was

1484
01:45:09,560 --> 01:45:11,690
warming up behind that wall.
At that time, well,

1485
01:45:11,774 --> 01:45:13,437
practically very few people even knew

1486
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:17,140
who Fedor was, but I knew
Fedor. I knew who he was,

1487
01:45:17,510 --> 01:45:21,280
that he was the Pride champion.
At that time, he beat Nogueira, beat

1488
01:45:21,380 --> 01:45:25,297
Mark Coleman, beat Randleman.
This was before his championship fight

1489
01:45:25,380 --> 01:45:28,857
against Cro Cop. I would come over
and just sit there watching how

1490
01:45:28,940 --> 01:45:32,400
he warmed up, what he did.
I just remember very well,

1491
01:45:33,180 --> 01:45:36,680
I don't know, maybe Fedor will
see this podcast. He had a thermos.

1492
01:45:37,860 --> 01:45:41,517
He had a thermos, and he was just
drinking tea. And I remember he

1493
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:45,577
fought Ibragim Magomedov.
He was also a legendary fighter of

1494
01:45:45,660 --> 01:45:48,120
ours, a heavyweight who
fought in Pride, too.

1495
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:53,497
He fought against him. It was either
his first or second fight, and he was

1496
01:45:53,580 --> 01:45:57,417
warming up incredibly well.
I remember how he was warming up

1497
01:45:57,500 --> 01:46:01,380
his nose and his ears.
I watched him, and it was unusual for me

1498
01:46:01,480 --> 01:46:05,120
at that time. I never warmed up
my nose and ears. I just remember--

1499
01:46:05,440 --> 01:46:09,297
I just remember how Fedor was really
working on his nose, his ears, his

1500
01:46:09,380 --> 01:46:13,187
whole face. And he went,
fought, came back.

1501
01:46:13,270 --> 01:46:17,217
This was in Makhachkala 2004.
It's the same as a

1502
01:46:17,300 --> 01:46:20,440
UFC champion now coming
and fighting at the

1503
01:46:20,860 --> 01:46:24,737
Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship.
Can you imagine that? Back then, it

1504
01:46:24,820 --> 01:46:28,537
was the best heavyweight organization
in the world. He comes there and

1505
01:46:28,620 --> 01:46:33,120
fights. So he finished a fight, goes back,
and he had this big thermos with him.

1506
01:46:34,100 --> 01:46:36,250
His team was sitting
separately over there.

1507
01:46:37,700 --> 01:46:41,300
He was drinking tea.
He just fought, walked back,

1508
01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:44,737
poured some tea, and drank it.
He had something to snack on with it,

1509
01:46:44,820 --> 01:46:45,457
maybe honey or

1510
01:46:45,540 --> 01:46:49,190
something. I just don't remember.
And I was, "Wow, Fedor is right here."

1511
01:46:49,860 --> 01:46:53,737
For me, that was just such a, you know,
great source of motivation back

1512
01:46:53,820 --> 01:46:57,557
then. It's really hard
to put those emotions into

1513
01:46:57,640 --> 01:47:01,680
words. By the way, maybe you could
ask him about that on the podcast.

1514
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:02,920
- About the thermos?

1515
01:47:03,290 --> 01:47:08,270
- No, no. About the tea. What was in it?
Thyme? Mint? What did he put in there?

1516
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:12,360
- Uh, well, I would love
to talk to him on this podcast,

1517
01:47:13,260 --> 01:47:16,100
but I think he rarely does interviews.

1518
01:47:17,980 --> 01:47:20,980
- I think you can reach him.
I can help you.

1519
01:47:22,040 --> 01:47:23,497
- Well, if you could put
in a good word for me.

1520
01:47:23,580 --> 01:47:27,680
- Yeah, of course. I think it would
be interesting for people to hear him.

1521
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:34,660
- Absolutely. But psychologically,
he's kind of like you in a way.

1522
01:47:35,820 --> 01:47:36,653
- You mean calm?

1523
01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:39,920
- Yeah. Yes, that calmness.

1524
01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:46,500
You see the Pride era, those huge
fights, those really tough matchups,

1525
01:47:47,380 --> 01:47:49,540
and still he always stayed calm.

1526
01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:50,913
- It's his aura.

1527
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:56,137
- Yeah? - I don't know about others,
but for me, that was his aura. The fact

1528
01:47:56,220 --> 01:48:00,077
that he'd come out with such a calm,
cool-headed look and knock

1529
01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:03,820
out giants, strong fighters
at that time, right?

1530
01:48:04,980 --> 01:48:09,720
You know, we used to joke
about his face, that he,

1531
01:48:11,220 --> 01:48:16,420
kind of looks like a kindergarten teacher,
you know? And then he goes out there and

1532
01:48:17,620 --> 01:48:19,680
knocks out absolute giants.

1533
01:48:20,900 --> 01:48:24,717
And he was like that. Both before
and after the fight, he never showed

1534
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:30,360
much emotion. But I think we're a little
different in that regard. I think Fedor,

1535
01:48:31,280 --> 01:48:35,400
by temperament, is calmer than I am.
That's my impression.

1536
01:48:36,340 --> 01:48:42,717
But with that cold-blooded calmness
of his, I think he got to a lot of people

1537
01:48:42,800 --> 01:48:43,633
mentally.

1538
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:50,497
- It's like something's happening inside
both of you, like something's boiling

1539
01:48:50,580 --> 01:48:53,850
inside. So when we look at your face-

1540
01:48:54,740 --> 01:48:58,477
- Of course it's boiling.
What do you think? You know what? It's

1541
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:02,497
one thing when it's boiling inside
and you show it, but there are

1542
01:49:02,580 --> 01:49:04,330
some who can't hide their feelings.

1543
01:49:05,900 --> 01:49:09,777
But it's a different thing when it's
boiling inside and on the surface you stay

1544
01:49:09,860 --> 01:49:13,440
cold, cold-blooded, calm,
and you can handle all these different

1545
01:49:13,540 --> 01:49:17,337
emotions that hit you at the same time.
There are a lot of them, and they

1546
01:49:17,420 --> 01:49:21,280
all hit differently.
When you compete, what makes a

1547
01:49:21,440 --> 01:49:25,357
fighter, an athlete at the
highest level so unique is

1548
01:49:25,440 --> 01:49:29,200
that so many different
emotions hit you at the same

1549
01:49:29,320 --> 01:49:33,257
time. Fear, nerves,
the fact that people are

1550
01:49:33,340 --> 01:49:38,240
watching you, the thought that you
might perform badly, that you might

1551
01:49:39,220 --> 01:49:42,800
not show what you've trained for,
that you might mess it up,

1552
01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:46,977
that you might,
I don't know, fall. So much

1553
01:49:47,060 --> 01:49:52,580
enters your head, and you can put each
emotion where it belongs. So, you know,

1554
01:49:53,580 --> 01:49:57,517
if all of that gets inside
your head and turns into chaos, you

1555
01:49:57,600 --> 01:50:00,797
won't be able to handle it
emotionally, but you stay

1556
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:04,617
cold-blooded.
And you know that if you don't

1557
01:50:04,700 --> 01:50:08,477
handle these emotions
that are coming at you, if you

1558
01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:12,417
don't handle this pressure,
then it will be difficult for you to

1559
01:50:12,500 --> 01:50:16,040
compete because the main competition
is against yourself first.

1560
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:20,200
You fight yourself,
you beat yourself, and only

1561
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:23,740
then do you actually start
competing with your opponent.

1562
01:50:24,440 --> 01:50:27,760
So I think it happens to everyone,
not just him or me.

1563
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:31,440
The big difference here
is how much you can control it.

1564
01:50:32,860 --> 01:50:34,640
- Fedor himself famously said,

1565
01:50:35,470 --> 01:50:39,520
"The only person who can defeat me is me.
The only person who can beat me is me."

1566
01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:44,017
- He was talking about that fight with
yourself, I'm sure. Because if you lose

1567
01:50:44,100 --> 01:50:47,260
to yourself, then you'll lose
to your opponent very easily.

1568
01:50:48,920 --> 01:50:51,170
- There's an interesting
thing I came across.

1569
01:50:52,060 --> 01:50:55,940
Adam Saitiev said that high-level
athletes often make a mistake,

1570
01:50:57,020 --> 01:51:01,060
and what they do wrong
is that when they feel fear,

1571
01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:07,760
they tend to ignore it. He believes
that you have to confront that fear

1572
01:51:08,620 --> 01:51:09,453
and overcome it.

1573
01:51:10,580 --> 01:51:14,400
- Yes. Psychologists talk
about how to work through those

1574
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:21,400
thoughts when they arise. You know,
when fear comes up and you feel it, that's

1575
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:26,540
absolutely normal.
It's what the Almighty put in us.

1576
01:51:27,350 --> 01:51:31,320
People get scared, people
get cold, people feel pain,

1577
01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:35,597
people get hungry. These are
things that are inside all of

1578
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:39,140
us. The real question
is how you deal with them,

1579
01:51:39,580 --> 01:51:41,900
how you overcome them within yourself.

1580
01:51:42,900 --> 01:51:46,807
100% you can't ignore it, and you
must work through it. You have to

1581
01:51:46,890 --> 01:51:50,097
answer the questions, "Why did
this happen? Could I do it this way

1582
01:51:50,180 --> 01:51:54,740
instead?" And this comes only
with experience, only with experience.

1583
01:51:56,560 --> 01:52:00,820
And the more you compete, you know, the
more you train and the more you face it.

1584
01:52:02,480 --> 01:52:05,820
Some people actually
try to avoid that moment.

1585
01:52:06,380 --> 01:52:12,400
But the more you face it, the better
and better you'll become each time.

1586
01:52:14,040 --> 01:52:17,997
It's the same with athletes.
They get nervous. That's what

1587
01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:21,840
we call the jitters, right?
At first, whenever someone competes,

1588
01:52:22,140 --> 01:52:26,780
they get the jitters. But when you
keep competing over and over again,

1589
01:52:26,863 --> 01:52:31,980
you gradually learn how to channel
those nerves in the right direction.

1590
01:52:33,100 --> 01:52:34,740
Then it gets easier for you.

1591
01:52:35,700 --> 01:52:39,317
And in order to get there,
you have to compete. And what is

1592
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:43,057
competition? You meet this
fear face to face. You don't

1593
01:52:43,140 --> 01:52:47,240
avoid it. A lot of guys are
staying away from competitions.

1594
01:52:48,180 --> 01:52:51,937
When they're young, they have this
tension, this self-consciousness, this

1595
01:52:52,020 --> 01:52:55,497
fear, the jitters.
They're nervous. They can't sleep at

1596
01:52:55,580 --> 01:52:58,240
night. You have to go
through all of that yourself.

1597
01:52:59,320 --> 01:53:03,137
Nobody can do it for you.
A coach can train you. A coach can teach

1598
01:53:03,220 --> 01:53:07,300
you. But all he can say is,
"Practice, practice, practice."

1599
01:53:08,130 --> 01:53:13,800
Then there's you, alone with your
own feelings. When you lie down,

1600
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:18,257
when you wake up, when you walk,
when you're by yourself, when

1601
01:53:18,340 --> 01:53:22,257
you eat, there are so many
moments when a person has to go

1602
01:53:22,340 --> 01:53:29,340
through all of this on his own. And when
you have to go through this over and over

1603
01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:33,337
again, some people back away.
They don't want

1604
01:53:33,420 --> 01:53:36,560
to face it. And what do you need for that?

1605
01:53:37,410 --> 01:53:41,157
Patience. You have to come
and endure it and go

1606
01:53:41,240 --> 01:53:45,077
through all of it, through your skin,
through your muscles, through

1607
01:53:45,160 --> 01:53:48,977
your mind. You must let all
of this pass through you and overcome

1608
01:53:49,060 --> 01:53:52,240
it. And each time you'll get better at it.

1609
01:53:54,440 --> 01:53:57,717
- A good example of that is the
third person you mentioned, George

1610
01:53:57,800 --> 01:54:00,800
St-Pierre, who by the
way sends his regards.

1611
01:54:01,680 --> 01:54:05,437
I train with him a lot, and he has
a very deep respect for you. But

1612
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:08,794
he didn't give me much good advice because
when I told him I was going to train

1613
01:54:08,878 --> 01:54:13,400
with you, he told me...
What did he say? He texted me, "If you

1614
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:15,300
die, you die." That's what he said.

1615
01:54:17,060 --> 01:54:18,610
- Good advice. He's a wise man.

1616
01:54:19,460 --> 01:54:21,520
- Didn't support me and said, "Say hi."

1617
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:23,137
- Tell him I say hi, too.

1618
01:54:23,220 --> 01:54:26,980
- As we were talking about,
he himself has spoken about this,

1619
01:54:28,670 --> 01:54:33,800
that he was afraid and always felt
fear before every single fight.

1620
01:54:34,900 --> 01:54:39,680
That's interesting. One of the greatest
fighters- - In history, yeah.

1621
01:54:40,010 --> 01:54:41,260
- And even he feels fear.

1622
01:54:41,780 --> 01:54:45,260
- He's not afraid to admit it.
Everybody has fear.

1623
01:54:45,580 --> 01:54:50,580
Everybody gets afraid. But I don't
know how big that fear was for him.

1624
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:55,290
I really don't know.
We never discussed it. But

1625
01:54:55,420 --> 01:55:01,120
I've watched a lot of his interviews,
his fights, and his training camps.

1626
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:06,080
The way he analyzed his past
fights and all that, the way

1627
01:55:06,200 --> 01:55:10,047
I see it, he's a very sensitive person.
There are people like that

1628
01:55:10,130 --> 01:55:13,827
too. Some guys take all
of this very lightly. Like,

1629
01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:17,830
"Okay, we fight tomorrow.
We'll see who my opponent is

1630
01:55:18,030 --> 01:55:21,490
and how he shows up, right?"
But there are others who,

1631
01:55:22,510 --> 01:55:25,610
who find it very difficult
to handle psychologically.

1632
01:55:26,530 --> 01:55:32,430
But the Almighty gave me this kind of
calmness. Sometimes I'd get to the arena,

1633
01:55:33,510 --> 01:55:38,450
and they bring you in four hours before
the fight. They have to weigh you,

1634
01:55:39,430 --> 01:55:43,190
they have to do doping control,
and they have to tape you

1635
01:55:43,330 --> 01:55:46,810
up. There are so many
athletic commission procedures.

1636
01:55:47,390 --> 01:55:49,120
Every state has different rules,

1637
01:55:50,190 --> 01:55:53,967
how they bring you into the arena
and all that. Sometimes I'd

1638
01:55:54,050 --> 01:55:57,947
get there four hours early and think,
"What am I supposed to do?"

1639
01:55:58,030 --> 01:56:01,920
So I make myself a little
bed and say, "Please,

1640
01:56:02,050 --> 01:56:06,010
Keep it quiet." I would lie down.
I could sleep there for an

1641
01:56:06,110 --> 01:56:09,827
hour, maybe an hour and a half.
That's it. Wake up, warm up, and

1642
01:56:09,910 --> 01:56:13,667
then I could go out and fight.
And some guys, they don't

1643
01:56:13,750 --> 01:56:15,550
sleep for two days before the fight.

1644
01:56:16,690 --> 01:56:20,287
Believe me, there are fighters
who don't sleep the night before a

1645
01:56:20,370 --> 01:56:24,067
fight, and it's very hard
on them. It's not really

1646
01:56:24,150 --> 01:56:27,890
fear. It's hard to describe with just

1647
01:56:28,010 --> 01:56:31,587
one emotion. It's too many
emotions that come over a

1648
01:56:31,670 --> 01:56:38,150
person, and they can't fall asleep.
It's panic, it's fear, it's worry, it's

1649
01:56:38,250 --> 01:56:42,150
nervousness, it's the jitters.
All of that builds up,

1650
01:56:42,530 --> 01:56:46,110
and the person just can't
fall asleep. So in that regard,

1651
01:56:47,770 --> 01:56:53,070
the Almighty gave me a little more
calmness than others. I had, you know,

1652
01:56:53,970 --> 01:56:56,750
such a cool head and calmness
before the fights.

1653
01:56:57,730 --> 01:57:01,950
- Now you're in this new
position as a leader,

1654
01:57:02,910 --> 01:57:06,727
and you're looking at all these
athletes, these young guys who

1655
01:57:06,810 --> 01:57:08,860
are already at the very top of the world.

1656
01:57:09,630 --> 01:57:12,380
And I think they're all very
different from one another

1657
01:57:13,070 --> 01:57:19,780
psychologically, physically,
and stylistically. What can you say as a

1658
01:57:19,910 --> 01:57:23,667
coach? I know you're not a coach,
but as a leader, how do you figure

1659
01:57:23,750 --> 01:57:29,510
out what each person needs?
Like now we were watching Umar prepare.

1660
01:57:30,130 --> 01:57:32,280
That each person needs
something different.

1661
01:57:32,550 --> 01:57:36,450
- Yes, everyone is different.
Different styles, different

1662
01:57:36,550 --> 01:57:39,930
mentalities, different mindsets, different

1663
01:57:40,030 --> 01:57:43,690
approaches to fight week
and to preparation as a whole.

1664
01:57:44,410 --> 01:57:48,127
But you have to adapt to all of it.
Here, you can't

1665
01:57:48,210 --> 01:57:52,190
just take one approach.
Let's say we take my approach

1666
01:57:53,110 --> 01:57:58,170
and apply it to everyone
else, to Usman, Islam,

1667
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:01,650
and Umar. It doesn't work like that.

1668
01:58:02,650 --> 01:58:06,527
Everyone needs their own approach.
I knew them since they were

1669
01:58:06,610 --> 01:58:10,427
nobody, and I know them now
when they are the best. So you

1670
01:58:10,510 --> 01:58:14,287
have to treat each one differently.
I'm very lucky to have Javier

1671
01:58:14,370 --> 01:58:18,130
Mendez. He's been by my side since 2012.

1672
01:58:18,690 --> 01:58:22,490
And when I became a coach
after I finished my career,

1673
01:58:22,750 --> 01:58:26,367
he was there with me as a coach.
I switched from being a

1674
01:58:26,450 --> 01:58:30,290
fighter to a coaching role.
My father was no longer with us.

1675
01:58:30,850 --> 01:58:34,567
And together with Javier Mendez,
we've been guiding them for

1676
01:58:34,650 --> 01:58:39,630
these last six years.
And his experience helps me tremendously

1677
01:58:40,470 --> 01:58:43,570
because there is no coach, no MMA coach

1678
01:58:44,450 --> 01:58:47,707
with the kind of results
Javier Mendez has. You

1679
01:58:47,790 --> 01:58:50,950
know? So many champions, double champions,

1680
01:58:51,390 --> 01:58:55,410
UFC fighters. So many people
have trained under him,

1681
01:58:56,390 --> 01:58:59,210
from Frank Shamrock all
the way to Islam Makhachev.

1682
01:59:00,770 --> 01:59:02,860
So many fighters have trained under him,

1683
01:59:03,670 --> 01:59:07,420
which makes things very easy
for me because I have Javier

1684
01:59:07,530 --> 01:59:11,710
Mendez by my side, and he can
help me with so many things.

1685
01:59:12,390 --> 01:59:16,187
- What do you think is the secret
behind Javier's genius? Why is he

1686
01:59:16,270 --> 01:59:18,990
such a great coach for so
many different athletes?

1687
01:59:21,090 --> 01:59:24,630
- It's the mental side of things.
I'm not gonna say he's one of the

1688
01:59:25,350 --> 01:59:29,017
best at holding pads
or anything like that, but

1689
01:59:29,100 --> 01:59:32,997
his understanding of MMA
itself, his approach

1690
01:59:33,080 --> 01:59:36,390
to training camp,
to the whole preparation process,

1691
01:59:37,110 --> 01:59:41,007
and the amount of attention
he pays to sparring

1692
01:59:41,090 --> 01:59:44,807
inside the cage. I'm not talking
about those sparring sessions

1693
01:59:44,890 --> 01:59:48,767
with 50 people in the gym
and everyone is sparring with each

1694
01:59:48,850 --> 01:59:52,650
other. For example, when I
was preparing for a five-round fight,

1695
01:59:53,230 --> 01:59:56,630
he would always bring in two
or three high-level opponents,

1696
01:59:56,970 --> 01:59:59,870
constantly rotating
in fresh sparring partners.

1697
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:02,027
- And he would watch and analyze.

1698
02:00:02,110 --> 02:00:05,930
- I don't remember him ever missing
a single sparring session since

1699
02:00:06,070 --> 02:00:12,050
2012. Can you imagine? 14 years have gone
by, and right now we're in training camp.

1700
02:00:13,810 --> 02:00:17,527
He's there for every training
session, morning and evening.

1701
02:00:17,610 --> 02:00:21,290
He's at every sparring session,
watching everyone, coaching them,

1702
02:00:21,450 --> 02:00:25,347
giving advice, guiding them.
He's incredibly dedicated to what he

1703
02:00:25,430 --> 02:00:29,330
does. He's either all
in or he steps away completely.

1704
02:00:31,170 --> 02:00:34,310
He never shows up and gives only 50%.

1705
02:00:35,250 --> 02:00:38,990
I remember one situation.
Abubakar was getting ready to

1706
02:00:39,090 --> 02:00:42,967
fight in WSOF, and I had
another student fighting there

1707
02:00:43,050 --> 02:00:46,500
as well. Abubakar went through
the entire preparation with us,

1708
02:00:47,090 --> 02:00:51,030
but the other guy didn't. When we
got there, I told the coach, "Coach,

1709
02:00:51,210 --> 02:00:54,870
can you work his corner with me too?"
He said, "You know, Khabib,

1710
02:00:55,370 --> 02:00:59,067
I haven't seen his preparation.
I don't know what he's capable of. He

1711
02:00:59,150 --> 02:01:02,630
didn't train under me.
But since you're asking, I'll do it.

1712
02:01:03,110 --> 02:01:04,850
But for the future, remember,

1713
02:01:05,710 --> 02:01:09,407
I don't really like to corner
guys I haven't prepared." I

1714
02:01:09,490 --> 02:01:12,840
didn't understand him then,
but now I do. This was

1715
02:01:12,970 --> 02:01:19,170
2016 or maybe 2017. I don't want
to be wrong. And now I understand.

1716
02:01:20,310 --> 02:01:24,290
Now when people ask me,
I'm like, "I didn't prepare you.

1717
02:01:24,450 --> 02:01:26,050
I don't know how ready you are."

1718
02:01:27,030 --> 02:01:30,987
I'm not ready to go in there
and give all my energy to someone who

1719
02:01:31,070 --> 02:01:32,620
didn't go through camp with me.

1720
02:01:34,070 --> 02:01:37,987
Now I understand that.
At that time, I told the coach, "Can

1721
02:01:38,070 --> 02:01:41,430
you come out and corner him with me?"
He said, "No problem."

1722
02:01:42,610 --> 02:01:46,507
We went out there,
Abubakar won his fight, and the

1723
02:01:46,590 --> 02:01:51,810
other guy's fight ended in a draw.
But that's not really what I'm getting at.

1724
02:01:53,030 --> 02:01:56,970
I've come to the point where if I
haven't trained someone for two, three,

1725
02:01:57,110 --> 02:02:01,067
or four months, I don't like
to corner them because they didn't

1726
02:02:01,150 --> 02:02:04,347
go through a full training camp,
and I don't know how they'll

1727
02:02:04,430 --> 02:02:07,650
respond in the third,
fourth, or fifth round.

1728
02:02:09,230 --> 02:02:12,987
I don't know how he prepared.
I don't know how ready he is to go

1729
02:02:13,070 --> 02:02:16,970
into those deep waters.
That's why I try not to corner

1730
02:02:17,070 --> 02:02:19,650
just anyone. I learned that from Javier.

1731
02:02:20,950 --> 02:02:23,700
- So you need to know he can
go into those deep waters.

1732
02:02:24,710 --> 02:02:29,110
- How deep he can go. I need
to know exactly what he's capable of.

1733
02:02:30,530 --> 02:02:34,230
- What can you say about one of the
greatest fighters and athletes ever,

1734
02:02:34,830 --> 02:02:37,910
Daniel DC Cormier, who you train with?

1735
02:02:39,230 --> 02:02:43,280
You guys joke around all the time, so it's
easy to forget how great he really is.

1736
02:02:43,590 --> 02:02:48,190
What can you say about him as a training
partner, as a coach, as a person?

1737
02:02:48,870 --> 02:02:55,870
- When we talk about DC, we have to go
back to 2004, 2008. He was a two-time

1738
02:02:56,190 --> 02:03:00,140
Olympian. He represented
Team USA at the Olympic Games,

1739
02:03:00,710 --> 02:03:06,330
and that carries a lot of weight in this
sport, especially in the 96-kilo division.

1740
02:03:07,990 --> 02:03:11,630
And he is a two-time Olympian.
Then he transitioned to

1741
02:03:11,730 --> 02:03:15,027
MMA, won a few fights
on the regional scene, went

1742
02:03:15,110 --> 02:03:18,887
to Strikeforce, won fights there.
They put him into the Grand

1743
02:03:18,970 --> 02:03:22,251
Prix. He won the Grand Prix,
became heavyweight champion,

1744
02:03:22,334 --> 02:03:23,810
and then went to the UFC.

1745
02:03:24,790 --> 02:03:28,340
When he moved to the UFC,
he cut down to 205 pounds

1746
02:03:28,850 --> 02:03:32,027
to make room for Cain
Velasquez because they were best

1747
02:03:32,110 --> 02:03:34,550
friends. Cain was the
heavyweight champion.

1748
02:03:35,690 --> 02:03:39,090
So he moved to 205,
and they both became champions,

1749
02:03:39,710 --> 02:03:42,330
one at light heavyweight
and one at heavyweight.

1750
02:03:43,250 --> 02:03:47,770
Later, when Cain lost the title,
he moved to heavyweight and won there too.

1751
02:03:48,590 --> 02:03:51,610
He's one of the most unique
athletes who has ever lived.

1752
02:03:52,930 --> 02:03:56,820
How many athletes do you know who
competed at the World Championships,

1753
02:03:57,290 --> 02:04:00,667
at the Olympic Games
in freestyle wrestling, then

1754
02:04:00,750 --> 02:04:04,350
transitioned to MMA and became
Strikeforce champion,

1755
02:04:04,990 --> 02:04:09,190
UFC light heavyweight champion,
and UFC heavyweight champion?

1756
02:04:10,570 --> 02:04:14,150
And he's also remembered
for his rivalry with one of the

1757
02:04:14,310 --> 02:04:18,207
greatest, if not the greatest,
Jon Jones. But

1758
02:04:18,290 --> 02:04:22,630
by the time he fought Jon Jones,
he was no longer at his peak.

1759
02:04:23,510 --> 02:04:30,510
I think he was already pushing 40.
Even though we have this friendly, joking

1760
02:04:31,230 --> 02:04:37,390
relationship because he's such a fun,
interesting guy, as an athlete though,

1761
02:04:38,490 --> 02:04:41,090
he's truly one of a kind.

1762
02:04:41,870 --> 02:04:44,550
- As a commentator too,
he's very good with words.

1763
02:04:45,910 --> 02:04:49,827
- Educated, well-mannered, strong.

1764
02:04:49,910 --> 02:04:56,390
He has so many great qualities.
Daniel Cormier is one of those people

1765
02:04:58,090 --> 02:05:00,950
who I think can truly inspire others.

1766
02:05:02,350 --> 02:05:07,710
- So who usually wins when
you guys wrestle? You or DC?

1767
02:05:08,790 --> 02:05:12,670
- Well, he's got a few years on me.
But back in my prime, when

1768
02:05:12,790 --> 02:05:16,270
I was competing at lightweight,
I weighed around 84,

1769
02:05:16,510 --> 02:05:23,510
85, maybe 86 kilos. DC was always
around 107, 110. Those are completely

1770
02:05:24,090 --> 02:05:27,890
different weight classes.
DC was better at wrestling and

1771
02:05:28,010 --> 02:05:31,150
as an Olympian too, all joking aside.

1772
02:05:32,090 --> 02:05:32,923
- So you feel—

1773
02:05:33,350 --> 02:05:37,240
- Back then it was really tough,
of course, but now it's different. Now

1774
02:05:37,350 --> 02:05:41,247
I can go after him.
But I learned so much from

1775
02:05:41,330 --> 02:05:44,987
Cormier. Honestly, so much. As a person, a

1776
02:05:45,070 --> 02:05:48,667
wrestler, and a fighter.
You know, we spent our best years

1777
02:05:48,750 --> 02:05:52,950
together at AKA from 2012 to 2020.

1778
02:05:54,610 --> 02:05:58,330
We've shared so many memories
and moments together as well.

1779
02:05:59,910 --> 02:06:03,287
- I just think it's a shame that people
don't talk about him as one of the top

1780
02:06:03,371 --> 02:06:04,204
five, top 10.

1781
02:06:04,810 --> 02:06:08,047
- Well, top 10 for sure.
One of the top 10 greatest, no question.

1782
02:06:08,130 --> 02:06:10,390
- Absolutely. - Yeah,
I definitely think so.

1783
02:06:10,490 --> 02:06:13,736
- It's a shame, but you see this
in football and in other sports too.

1784
02:06:13,819 --> 02:06:18,170
One rivalry can overshadow an entire
legacy. For DC, it's Jon Jones.

1785
02:06:18,690 --> 02:06:21,330
- Well, Jon Jones was the better athlete.

1786
02:06:22,250 --> 02:06:26,027
There's no doubt about that.
But DC was right there with

1787
02:06:26,110 --> 02:06:31,350
him. Yes, Jon Jones won,
but DC gave him a real fight.

1788
02:06:32,850 --> 02:06:38,490
He was that very person, you know,
who actually made Jon Jones train harder.

1789
02:06:39,750 --> 02:06:43,667
People shouldn't forget that.
I'm sure Jon Jones prepared for

1790
02:06:43,750 --> 02:06:47,570
that fight like it was the
hardest fight of his life.

1791
02:06:49,150 --> 02:06:52,450
- Well, we've talked about
different athletes, about Umar,

1792
02:06:53,150 --> 02:06:56,967
but now let's talk about Islam
Makhachev, one of your closest

1793
02:06:57,050 --> 02:07:00,967
brothers, who's at the very
top of the world. You've known

1794
02:07:01,050 --> 02:07:04,410
each other. You've trained
together for more than 20 years.

1795
02:07:05,230 --> 02:07:08,630
In your opinion, what makes him
such a special wrestler and fighter?

1796
02:07:09,530 --> 02:07:13,090
Why has he reached such heights?
Why is he a great fighter?

1797
02:07:14,330 --> 02:07:17,920
- Well, let's start with the fact
that Islam has been doing this for

1798
02:07:19,080 --> 02:07:22,860
His whole life, since childhood.
And I've known him since childhood too.

1799
02:07:23,280 --> 02:07:27,137
We went to the same school, lived
in the same neighborhood, trained at the

1800
02:07:27,220 --> 02:07:29,440
same gym, and he was my father's student.

1801
02:07:30,560 --> 02:07:36,817
And it's worth mentioning, he was one
of my father's favorite students.

1802
02:07:36,900 --> 02:07:43,617
One of the best students. My father saw
in him this potential for greatness in how

1803
02:07:43,700 --> 02:07:50,140
hard he trained. That's what I was talking
about at the beginning of the podcast.

1804
02:07:51,740 --> 02:07:55,450
When you go into the dark,
uncomfortable room and

1805
02:07:55,660 --> 02:07:59,180
stay there for a long time,
no matter how hard it gets.

1806
02:08:00,440 --> 02:08:04,760
He knew how to make sacrifices.
He was very disciplined.

1807
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:09,317
Nobody reaches this level
by accident. It's

1808
02:08:09,400 --> 02:08:16,400
impossible without exceptional natural
gifts. And he has them. He's gifted. Allah

1809
02:08:17,460 --> 02:08:23,762
blessed him with those gifts.
And he's deeply devoted to what he does.

1810
02:08:23,845 --> 02:08:24,940
We basically

1811
02:08:25,640 --> 02:08:29,440
grew up together, right?
I'm three years older than Islam.

1812
02:08:30,110 --> 02:08:33,740
And I was always a little bigger,
a little older than him.

1813
02:08:34,660 --> 02:08:38,357
So when we were amateurs,
I competed in slightly

1814
02:08:38,440 --> 02:08:42,220
heavier weight classes.
But we worked together a lot.

1815
02:08:42,990 --> 02:08:46,740
And Islam benefited tremendously
from training with me.

1816
02:08:47,500 --> 02:08:51,280
We trained together for many years.
And he never had to

1817
02:08:51,380 --> 02:08:53,980
go anywhere to find a sparring partner

1818
02:08:54,820 --> 02:08:58,677
because he always had one
in the gym. So I developed by

1819
02:08:58,760 --> 02:09:02,620
training with the older guys in the gym,
the stronger guys, the better guys

1820
02:09:03,020 --> 02:09:06,720
when I was young. Then when they
left, I was the one in front.

1821
02:09:06,960 --> 02:09:10,420
Islam kept growing,
growing, growing. Now I left.

1822
02:09:10,740 --> 02:09:14,660
Islam is the one in front. And now
other guys are developing through him.

1823
02:09:15,100 --> 02:09:18,797
This is a kind of chain
that exists in a gym, in a

1824
02:09:18,880 --> 02:09:22,520
training system that produces
the best fighters in the world.

1825
02:09:23,360 --> 02:09:27,217
And in this chain, Islam
was always behind me. If I was

1826
02:09:27,300 --> 02:09:30,977
behind someone, Islam was behind me. Now

1827
02:09:31,060 --> 02:09:34,770
others are following.
Islam, Usman, Amru, and

1828
02:09:34,900 --> 02:09:38,737
other guys. You could put them
against any of the best fighters in

1829
02:09:38,820 --> 02:09:41,740
the world right now,
and they would perform very well.

1830
02:09:43,220 --> 02:09:50,220
So in this chain we've had since 2003,
and now it's already 2026, that's

1831
02:09:51,800 --> 02:09:56,420
23 years. Islam was the
one coming up behind me.

1832
02:09:57,320 --> 02:10:00,880
And now there are younger
guys coming up behind

1833
02:10:01,040 --> 02:10:04,957
Islam. And it's no secret
that Islam will turn 35 in

1834
02:10:05,040 --> 02:10:08,797
October. But what makes me
happy is that there are younger

1835
02:10:08,880 --> 02:10:12,320
guys coming up behind him.
I left. Islam stepped in.

1836
02:10:12,740 --> 02:10:16,657
One day Islam will leave too,
and others will take his place. And this

1837
02:10:16,740 --> 02:10:20,577
cycle, it never ends. It keeps
going, and it keeps pulling the

1838
02:10:20,660 --> 02:10:21,880
next generation forward.

1839
02:10:22,820 --> 02:10:26,457
At the beginning, a lot of people
are involved. But as you gradually

1840
02:10:26,540 --> 02:10:30,000
climb higher, higher, and higher,
the road gets narrower,

1841
02:10:30,460 --> 02:10:34,180
and fewer and fewer people remain.
And alongside Islam,

1842
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:37,520
a lot of guys were developing
while training with me.

1843
02:10:38,660 --> 02:10:45,660
But Islam made it all the way because of
his work ethic, his discipline, and let's

1844
02:10:46,440 --> 02:10:52,997
call it sacrifice. He gave up a lot
to reach this level. This isn't

1845
02:10:53,080 --> 02:10:58,337
easy. You have to make sacrifices.
You have to make

1846
02:10:58,420 --> 02:11:03,560
sacrifices. You have to give up
parties. You have to sacrifice

1847
02:11:03,720 --> 02:11:07,557
sleep. You have
to sacrifice your time. There

1848
02:11:07,640 --> 02:11:11,120
are so many things you
have to give up. You have to

1849
02:11:11,260 --> 02:11:15,140
dedicate your entire life
to this sport, putting aside all the

1850
02:11:15,240 --> 02:11:18,860
things that can distract you.
You train, you sleep,

1851
02:11:19,200 --> 02:11:23,060
you eat, you wake up,
and then you do it all over again.

1852
02:11:23,640 --> 02:11:26,685
Only then can you reach
the level that Islam reached.

1853
02:11:26,768 --> 02:11:28,480
That's what makes him unique.

1854
02:11:29,660 --> 02:11:35,360
- Were there any small but interesting
differences between you and Islam,

1855
02:11:36,450 --> 02:11:37,700
psychologically speaking?

1856
02:11:38,150 --> 02:11:39,000
- There are many.

1857
02:11:39,580 --> 02:11:43,457
Psychologically, he's very solid too.
I've been around him through so

1858
02:11:43,540 --> 02:11:48,660
many training camps and so many fights.
He's built very strong mentally.

1859
02:11:49,540 --> 02:11:53,137
Of course, we're different in certain
things, but in terms of our fighter's

1860
02:11:53,220 --> 02:11:57,540
attitude toward their work,
we have a lot in common. A lot.

1861
02:11:57,940 --> 02:12:00,740
- You also train a lot.
- Yeah, absolutely. A lot.

1862
02:12:01,000 --> 02:12:07,170
- And I think he... Well, first I have
to say, I watched you train yesterday,

1863
02:12:08,300 --> 02:12:11,857
and it made me really happy
to see that you still love this so

1864
02:12:11,940 --> 02:12:16,980
deeply. You know, it's hard to love
something for such a long time.

1865
02:12:17,700 --> 02:12:23,737
- People finish and move on. They retire
and move on. But me, it's been six years

1866
02:12:23,820 --> 02:12:27,657
since I retired, and I still
haven't let go of wrestling, of

1867
02:12:27,740 --> 02:12:31,380
competition. I still go
to the gym, do cardio,

1868
02:12:31,820 --> 02:12:36,140
lift, wrestle, grapple.
I never let it go. It's still with me.

1869
02:12:37,160 --> 02:12:43,280
And yesterday I told you that last week
I did 200 minutes of live grappling.

1870
02:12:44,280 --> 02:12:48,040
This week is a little different
though, because I'm just focused on

1871
02:12:48,220 --> 02:12:51,940
Umar, traveling,
and everything that comes with that.

1872
02:12:53,020 --> 02:12:56,760
So this week it's going to be less.
Still, I wrestle. I don't let

1873
02:12:56,860 --> 02:13:00,337
go. I love it. I love this energy.
I love that feeling after

1874
02:13:00,420 --> 02:13:03,360
wrestling. You wrestle,
let's say 40 minutes.

1875
02:13:03,860 --> 02:13:08,380
Yesterday I still wanted more.
Just now I wrestled with you, with Islam,

1876
02:13:09,300 --> 02:13:13,660
maybe 20 minutes, but still it's
not enough to get that feeling,

1877
02:13:14,500 --> 02:13:18,280
that 100% feeling. I need around 40

1878
02:13:18,380 --> 02:13:22,217
minutes of wrestling,
something like that. I don't think

1879
02:13:22,300 --> 02:13:25,440
most people listening
to us will understand that.

1880
02:13:27,520 --> 02:13:33,160
But I think some people watching,
especially grappling and jujitsu fans,

1881
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:36,237
will understand me.

1882
02:13:36,320 --> 02:13:40,000
- Well, to be honest, sometimes
there are cameras around you, and

1883
02:13:40,220 --> 02:13:44,880
for me at least, that's harder.
I like it when there are none.

1884
02:13:45,460 --> 02:13:49,277
- I usually train with no cameras.
With you was one of the

1885
02:13:49,360 --> 02:13:53,060
rare occasions when I come
to the gym and- - You allow?

1886
02:13:53,240 --> 02:13:55,937
- When I allow it, yes. - Thanks for that.

1887
02:13:56,020 --> 02:13:59,320
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is very,
very rare for me. Even with

1888
02:13:59,420 --> 02:14:04,180
Embedded, with UFC, with everyone
who comes, I always say, "Don't film."

1889
02:14:04,860 --> 02:14:08,757
- Thank you, brother.
I don't know why, but cameras get in

1890
02:14:08,840 --> 02:14:12,617
the way for me because this sport,
this preparation, it happens

1891
02:14:12,700 --> 02:14:17,560
here, and that whole world where
celebrities matter, it gets in the way.

1892
02:14:18,260 --> 02:14:25,143
- Yes, it gets in the way. But 99.9%
of our training sessions happen without

1893
02:14:25,227 --> 02:14:29,777
cameras. - Well, thank you, brother.
Let me ask you this. A lot of people say

1894
02:14:29,860 --> 02:14:33,417
you're number one,
the greatest of all time. Do you

1895
02:14:33,500 --> 02:14:39,280
think Islam has a chance to become
the greatest MMA fighter of all time?

1896
02:14:39,680 --> 02:14:43,440
- Well, I've never said that,
and I never set out to become number

1897
02:14:43,560 --> 02:14:48,560
one or to become the greatest
athlete and so on. I never had that.

1898
02:14:50,020 --> 02:14:53,680
My goal was always to become
the best in my sport,

1899
02:14:54,160 --> 02:14:57,380
to become a world champion,
to prove to myself

1900
02:14:57,900 --> 02:15:02,220
that I could do it. But it's
hard to choose just one person.

1901
02:15:03,040 --> 02:15:06,930
Even now, look, there's always
going to be St-Pierre, there's

1902
02:15:07,060 --> 02:15:10,917
always going to be Demetrious
Johnson, there's always going to

1903
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:14,877
be Jon Jones, there's always
going to be Fedor. If people

1904
02:15:14,960 --> 02:15:18,737
want to include me in that
conversation, if Islam gets into

1905
02:15:18,820 --> 02:15:22,590
that conversation, if there's
Cain Velasquez, Cormier, and

1906
02:15:22,720 --> 02:15:26,170
so on, I'd be happy about that.
And that's my goal,

1907
02:15:26,540 --> 02:15:30,260
that someone from our team,
from the people closest to me,

1908
02:15:30,700 --> 02:15:34,580
gets there too. If Jon Jones is there,
why can't Islam be there?

1909
02:15:35,200 --> 02:15:38,780
If Demetrious Johnson is there
with 11 title defenses,

1910
02:15:39,460 --> 02:15:42,860
why can't Islam be there?
It's a good question. Why not?

1911
02:15:44,000 --> 02:15:47,737
I'd like him to break all
those records, to overtake

1912
02:15:47,820 --> 02:15:51,540
Jon Jones, Demetrious
Johnson, and St-Pierre, no

1913
02:15:51,640 --> 02:15:55,330
matter how much respect I have
for them. Islam has a chance,

1914
02:15:55,960 --> 02:15:58,100
but time is starting to run out a little.

1915
02:15:58,920 --> 02:16:02,757
This worries me because,
for example, Jones fought at light

1916
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:06,597
heavyweight and now at heavyweight.
Time is a little kinder

1917
02:16:06,680 --> 02:16:10,420
to those divisions.
Even at 38, you can still

1918
02:16:10,520 --> 02:16:14,320
compete at the heavier weights.
You don't need the

1919
02:16:14,420 --> 02:16:18,337
same reaction speed and all that.
But when you compete in

1920
02:16:18,420 --> 02:16:23,895
lighter weight classes, 155,
170, age really catches up.

1921
02:16:23,978 --> 02:16:30,880
I think active fighters,
retired fighters, wrestlers, athletes,

1922
02:16:31,940 --> 02:16:35,440
especially those who competed
in these weight classes,

1923
02:16:35,720 --> 02:16:38,340
will understand what I'm talking about.

1924
02:16:39,460 --> 02:16:42,960
When you're 35 and when
you're 32 and when you're

1925
02:16:43,140 --> 02:16:45,480
38, you're a totally different athlete.

1926
02:16:46,680 --> 02:16:50,557
- From where you are now, you can
see the entire fight business, and you

1927
02:16:50,640 --> 02:16:53,880
know Dana White very well.
I'd say he's one of those

1928
02:16:53,980 --> 02:17:00,240
rare geniuses in sports business,
in business, period.

1929
02:17:01,180 --> 02:17:04,857
I don't think the UFC would exist
without Dana White. There are

1930
02:17:04,940 --> 02:17:08,690
important people there, of course,
but he's really at the center of it all.

1931
02:17:09,560 --> 02:17:13,180
What can you say about him?
What qualities,

1932
02:17:14,160 --> 02:17:18,580
what traits have made him
such a successful businessman?

1933
02:17:19,480 --> 02:17:20,630
- First of all, I think

1934
02:17:22,720 --> 02:17:26,637
if you look at it, I also kind of...
Well, not kind of, I understand

1935
02:17:26,720 --> 02:17:27,940
his position a little.

1936
02:17:29,340 --> 02:17:32,797
I also ran my own league for a
couple of years. I know what the

1937
02:17:32,880 --> 02:17:36,830
relationship between a promoter,
well, a league owner

1938
02:17:37,000 --> 02:17:42,960
and the fighters is like, not just
as a fighter dealing with a league owner.

1939
02:17:43,960 --> 02:17:46,000
I've been on both sides of it.

1940
02:17:48,080 --> 02:17:51,840
He's very good at separating business
from personal relationships. For

1941
02:17:51,940 --> 02:17:58,930
him, the two never overlap. He draws
a clear line between them. In business,

1942
02:17:59,590 --> 02:18:04,640
he's extremely cold-blooded.
He's made decisions,

1943
02:18:07,120 --> 02:18:10,947
some major decisions,
regardless of whether people

1944
02:18:11,030 --> 02:18:14,697
like them or not. And those
decisions, they were best for the

1945
02:18:14,780 --> 02:18:20,820
league and for the UFC. He always had
that mentality, you know, like in those

1946
02:18:21,840 --> 02:18:25,637
mafia movies where
family comes first, right?

1947
02:18:25,720 --> 02:18:27,920
Well, for him, the UFC always came first.

1948
02:18:29,530 --> 02:18:33,417
That's the only way he was able to push
their brand forward. Of course, a lot

1949
02:18:33,500 --> 02:18:38,080
of people contributed to that success.
There were a lot of them. You have to

1950
02:18:39,020 --> 02:18:44,600
give credit to Bruce Buffer, to Joe Rogan,
to the commentators who were there.

1951
02:18:45,460 --> 02:18:48,310
There were a lot of things
that made the UFC unique, but,

1952
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:53,057
but the cherry on top was always Dana.
Dana did an incredible job

1953
02:18:53,140 --> 02:18:58,320
promoting the UFC, and he still does.
No matter what, the UFC is always there.

1954
02:18:59,560 --> 02:19:04,820
You know? No matter how, no matter how
unsuccessful a particular event might be,

1955
02:19:05,700 --> 02:19:09,497
the UFC is still the UFC.
When they go into a new market

1956
02:19:09,580 --> 02:19:13,397
outside the United States, even if
a show doesn't go so well, people

1957
02:19:13,480 --> 02:19:16,880
will still come back for the next
event simply because it's the UFC.

1958
02:19:17,320 --> 02:19:21,077
Over the last 30 plus years,
they've established themselves as the

1959
02:19:21,160 --> 02:19:24,830
premier MMA league in the world,
and they put on the best fights.

1960
02:19:25,540 --> 02:19:29,477
So in that respect, I think a huge
part of the credit goes to Dana. The

1961
02:19:29,560 --> 02:19:32,820
fact that the UFC has come
this far is a major achievement.

1962
02:19:33,340 --> 02:19:35,957
- Building a league like
that is incredibly difficult

1963
02:19:36,040 --> 02:19:39,417
- Yeah. A lot of people have money and a
lot of people have tried. Many have come

1964
02:19:39,500 --> 02:19:43,417
in. But building what the UFC
has built is extremely hard. And

1965
02:19:43,500 --> 02:19:45,550
what they've achieved now with Paramount,

1966
02:19:46,230 --> 02:19:50,057
that's something unique. It's a unique
achievement. In just 30 years, they've

1967
02:19:50,140 --> 02:19:55,300
grown to a level that some entire
sports needed 100 or 150 years to reach.

1968
02:19:56,720 --> 02:19:58,433
And you have to give
credit where it's due,

1969
02:19:58,516 --> 02:20:00,777
and that credit goes
to one person, Dana White.

1970
02:20:00,860 --> 02:20:06,227
So I think that his genius
as a promoter, the way he promotes

1971
02:20:06,310 --> 02:20:11,697
and pushes fights, and pushes his
league as a whole, that is just

1972
02:20:11,780 --> 02:20:15,637
remarkable. In my opinion, that's
something a lot of people could learn

1973
02:20:15,720 --> 02:20:16,554
from him.

1974
02:20:17,020 --> 02:20:19,970
- You mentioned Joe Rogan.
You know, he's a friend of mine.

1975
02:20:21,560 --> 02:20:25,417
I love listening to his podcast, but I've
never actually heard the two of you

1976
02:20:25,500 --> 02:20:28,775
have a conversation together. Do you think
that's something that could happen in

1977
02:20:28,858 --> 02:20:32,301
the future? - Yes, of course. - I know
you have a great deal of respect for him,

1978
02:20:32,384 --> 02:20:33,697
and he has a great deal of respect for

1979
02:20:33,780 --> 02:20:36,720
you. I can't wait to hear
the two of you talk.

1980
02:20:37,300 --> 02:20:40,777
- Same here. If we're talking about the
people most responsible for promoting the

1981
02:20:40,860 --> 02:20:44,797
UFC, I'd put Dana first.
But second place, without question,

1982
02:20:44,880 --> 02:20:48,480
goes to Joe Rogan. It's honestly
hard to imagine the UFC without him.

1983
02:20:48,960 --> 02:20:51,210
It'll be hard when he's
no longer part of it.

1984
02:20:52,420 --> 02:20:56,380
And what he's achieved in his own field,
what he's achieved in podcasting,

1985
02:20:57,700 --> 02:21:01,540
he's the best. And what he's
built, the way he commentates,

1986
02:21:01,860 --> 02:21:05,240
the way he communicates,
his knowledge, his charisma,

1987
02:21:06,620 --> 02:21:10,620
the way he carries a conversation, I think
a lot of people could learn from him.

1988
02:21:11,340 --> 02:21:15,257
And as for me going on his podcast,
I think it's inevitable. God willing, if

1989
02:21:15,340 --> 02:21:19,217
we're given the time and the health,
we'll have a lot to talk about. There

1990
02:21:19,300 --> 02:21:23,217
are so many different topics we could
discuss together, so a conversation with

1991
02:21:23,300 --> 02:21:26,900
Joe Rogan would be very interesting.
I'd definitely like to talk to him.

1992
02:21:27,480 --> 02:21:31,180
- I agree. But it's interesting,
right now you and I are speaking Russian.

1993
02:21:31,580 --> 02:21:32,897
Language is a tricky thing.

1994
02:21:32,980 --> 02:21:36,020
- Yeah, exactly. With him
you need to come prepared.

1995
02:21:36,160 --> 02:21:40,020
Because if you show up unprepared,
he will just eat you alive.

1996
02:21:40,800 --> 02:21:43,820
You have to be ready.
It's a mental battle, too.

1997
02:21:43,940 --> 02:21:48,050
- Yeah. And by the way, you know,
you've mentioned a few times that

1998
02:21:49,280 --> 02:21:53,520
you'd like to improve your Arabic.
Language is such an interesting thing.

1999
02:21:54,460 --> 02:21:56,280
It opens doors to understanding.

2000
02:21:57,140 --> 02:22:00,690
It allows you to understand culture
and history on a much deeper level.

2001
02:22:01,020 --> 02:22:04,700
- Absolutely. Without the language,
it's very difficult. I'm starting to

2002
02:22:04,840 --> 02:22:09,400
study Arabic now, but I've been reading
the Quran since I was a child. I know the

2003
02:22:10,380 --> 02:22:14,700
the alphabet very well, the pronunciation
rules. I can read it well.

2004
02:22:15,800 --> 02:22:19,220
But the Quran and Arabic as a
spoken language are different.

2005
02:22:20,280 --> 02:22:23,740
I wouldn't say they're drastically
different, but they are different.

2006
02:22:24,720 --> 02:22:28,577
If you want to speak it conversationally,
you need to study grammar and learn

2007
02:22:28,660 --> 02:22:29,760
it in a different way.

2008
02:22:31,280 --> 02:22:37,537
- I'd also like to ask you about Ali, Ali
Abdelaziz. He's such a central figure. He

2009
02:22:37,620 --> 02:22:39,070
represents so many champions.

2010
02:22:40,660 --> 02:22:44,060
What do you respect about him?
What do you think makes him a genius?

2011
02:22:44,640 --> 02:22:46,340
Because he's such a unique person.

2012
02:22:47,400 --> 02:22:53,740
- Well, I met Ali in 2014.
We've been working together ever since.

2013
02:22:54,660 --> 02:22:59,860
Over the years, a lot of fighters
came to him through me, a lot of guys.

2014
02:23:01,700 --> 02:23:08,700
And in all this time, in the 12 years
we've known each other, I don't--

2015
02:23:11,120 --> 02:23:16,400
I can barely remember any fighters
leaving him, except maybe a couple.

2016
02:23:17,580 --> 02:23:21,317
But hundreds of fighters have worked with
him, hundreds of fighters, and so many

2017
02:23:21,400 --> 02:23:25,257
guys still keep in touch with him,
and he has very good relationships with

2018
02:23:25,340 --> 02:23:31,180
them. I'd also like to note that Ali,
you know, he has one unique quality.

2019
02:23:32,580 --> 02:23:36,217
People either really
love him or really hate

2020
02:23:36,300 --> 02:23:40,177
him. You can't just be neutral about
him, you know, like, "Yeah, I know

2021
02:23:40,260 --> 02:23:41,310
Ali. He's all right."

2022
02:23:42,120 --> 02:23:45,770
No one will say about him, "Well,
you know, I know him. He's a good guy."

2023
02:23:47,100 --> 02:23:50,300
You'll have strong feelings
for him. Either you hate him

2024
02:23:51,000 --> 02:23:55,520
or you really love him. And I am in

2025
02:23:56,620 --> 02:24:02,497
in that category of people who really...
How do I put it? Who are very fond of him.

2026
02:24:02,580 --> 02:24:06,237
And I have a good relationship with him.
I know his family. I know his

2027
02:24:06,320 --> 02:24:10,217
children. His kids grew up
before my eyes. When I first met

2028
02:24:10,300 --> 02:24:13,100
him, he only had two or three
children. Now he has more.

2029
02:24:15,560 --> 02:24:18,180
This is the kind of person he is.

2030
02:24:19,740 --> 02:24:23,230
You need to get to know him
better to really appreciate him,

2031
02:24:23,600 --> 02:24:26,740
and he will stand by you
until the very end.

2032
02:24:27,860 --> 02:24:31,677
And yeah, of course,
there are people who have

2033
02:24:31,760 --> 02:24:35,577
who have mixed feelings about him.
But that's my point. It's hard

2034
02:24:35,660 --> 02:24:37,780
to feel indifferent about Ali.

2035
02:24:37,910 --> 02:24:41,860
"I know Ali. He's a very good guy."
No, it's different with him.

2036
02:24:42,100 --> 02:24:45,730
People will either tell you, "I know
Ali and I absolutely love him," or,

2037
02:24:46,080 --> 02:24:47,940
"I know Ali and I can't stand him."

2038
02:24:48,620 --> 02:24:52,077
- So, it's fair to say that
most people who- - Yes, yes

2039
02:24:52,160 --> 02:24:56,420
-... who really know him and work
with him tend to stay with him for life?

2040
02:24:56,960 --> 02:25:00,960
- Yes. - And respect him. That's
important. And his judo isn't bad either.

2041
02:25:02,700 --> 02:25:04,757
- It was. - He showed me.
- It was. It was, it was.

2042
02:25:04,840 --> 02:25:08,217
- Oh, right, you were just
wrestling yesterday. All

2043
02:25:08,300 --> 02:25:11,740
right. Let's talk about football now.
I want to ask you something,

2044
02:25:12,260 --> 02:25:16,117
and I need to be careful here because
after yesterday, I realize just how

2045
02:25:16,200 --> 02:25:17,650
much you know about the game.

2046
02:25:18,620 --> 02:25:22,400
I can't even pretend I know what I'm
talking about anymore. I need to tread

2047
02:25:22,520 --> 02:25:23,353
carefully.

2048
02:25:23,780 --> 02:25:25,860
- Yes. If we're gonna go there-

2049
02:25:26,020 --> 02:25:28,920
... don't make any mistakes.
I hope you did your research.

2050
02:25:29,420 --> 02:25:30,717
- I'm shaking now. - You prepared?

2051
02:25:30,800 --> 02:25:32,800
- Wait. We could talk about

2052
02:25:34,060 --> 02:25:37,294
a lot of interesting teams. You talked
about the moment when you fell in love

2053
02:25:37,377 --> 02:25:38,210
with football.

2054
02:25:38,880 --> 02:25:42,920
That was the Champions
League final in 1998.

2055
02:25:43,120 --> 02:25:47,360
It was Real Madrid against Juventus.
It was the moment when you,

2056
02:25:48,620 --> 02:25:50,820
you realized that Real
Madrid was your team,

2057
02:25:51,210 --> 02:25:54,377
the club you've continued
to love and support ever since.

2058
02:25:54,460 --> 02:25:58,460
Tell me about that very first moment when
you watched the game with your father.

2059
02:26:00,260 --> 02:26:04,157
What do you remember? You know,
this is such an important sport for

2060
02:26:04,240 --> 02:26:08,300
you, for millions, hundreds
of millions, billions of people.

2061
02:26:08,810 --> 02:26:09,643
- Billions, yes.

2062
02:26:09,840 --> 02:26:12,777
- What do you remember most about that
game, and what did you fall in love with?

2063
02:26:12,860 --> 02:26:16,577
- Well, first of all, my father
was a huge football fan. He was a good

2064
02:26:16,660 --> 02:26:20,417
player himself. When we lived
in the village, they played almost every

2065
02:26:20,500 --> 02:26:24,230
day. Football has always been very
popular where I'm from. The kids,

2066
02:26:24,780 --> 02:26:28,517
the young people, everyone plays.
In fact, we still have this

2067
02:26:28,600 --> 02:26:34,717
tradition in the village. As long
as I can remember, it was a tradition

2068
02:26:34,800 --> 02:26:38,737
to... for each street
to put together its own team

2069
02:26:38,820 --> 02:26:42,040
for a tournament with, eh,
group stages, then the quarterfinals,

2070
02:26:42,340 --> 02:26:47,610
semifinals, and the final. So it became
a real tradition, and everyone would.

2071
02:26:48,500 --> 02:26:51,500
Everyone there follows football,
the kids, the young people.

2072
02:26:52,480 --> 02:26:54,700
And my father played, too.

2073
02:26:55,800 --> 02:26:58,750
Whenever there was a big match on,
I'd always sit with him,

2074
02:26:59,360 --> 02:27:02,180
in front of the television and watch.

2075
02:27:03,740 --> 02:27:07,577
The first football memory I have that's
really clear and conscious goes back

2076
02:27:07,660 --> 02:27:11,437
to 1996. I couldn't tell
you where we were watching

2077
02:27:11,520 --> 02:27:14,557
it. I don't remember, but I
remember sitting next to my

2078
02:27:14,640 --> 02:27:18,530
father. It was the European Championship
semifinal, Germany and England.

2079
02:27:19,860 --> 02:27:24,000
England lost on penalties at home,
and Germany advanced to the final.

2080
02:27:25,280 --> 02:27:27,630
A few days later,
we watched the final as well.

2081
02:27:29,440 --> 02:27:31,720
We were at someone's place.
We didn't have a TV at the time,

2082
02:27:31,804 --> 02:27:33,317
or maybe our channel wasn't showing the

2083
02:27:33,400 --> 02:27:37,197
match. I don't remember.
We watched it at somebody's place. It

2084
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:40,940
was Germany against the Czech Republic.
Germany won that final.

2085
02:27:42,040 --> 02:27:45,877
I remember Oliver Bierhoff coming off the
bench and scoring. That whole period is

2086
02:27:45,960 --> 02:27:47,860
still very vivid in my memory.

2087
02:27:48,870 --> 02:27:52,657
After that, I kept watching football
whenever I could. And I remember

2088
02:27:52,740 --> 02:27:56,760
the 1998 Champions League final.
I watched it with my father.

2089
02:27:57,880 --> 02:28:01,680
Again, I don't remember where we
watched it, but it was the final, 1 to

2090
02:28:01,780 --> 02:28:05,720
0. Real Madrid won. I can still remember
the players who were on the pitch.

2091
02:28:06,280 --> 02:28:09,840
Uh, I was obsessed with football myself.

2092
02:28:10,180 --> 02:28:14,117
I'd spend hours, days outside
playing with a ball, sometimes on my

2093
02:28:14,200 --> 02:28:20,380
own, sometimes with a group.
There was a period when, actually,

2094
02:28:21,360 --> 02:28:25,060
in the settlement where
I lived, in the village,

2095
02:28:26,180 --> 02:28:28,680
I was pretty much the only
kid who had a football.

2096
02:28:29,560 --> 02:28:31,820
So the older guys would come over.

2097
02:28:32,800 --> 02:28:36,080
I was maybe nine or ten, and these
were boys who were fifteen or sixteen.

2098
02:28:36,163 --> 02:28:38,600
They'd say, "Habib, bring the ball out."

2099
02:28:38,940 --> 02:28:43,037
But I'd give them a condition for bringing
the ball out. When you're ten years old,

2100
02:28:43,120 --> 02:28:46,246
nobody is putting you on a team
with fifteen-year-olds, you know.

2101
02:28:46,329 --> 02:28:50,129
The age gap is just too big. So I'd say,
"If I bring the ball, I'm playing."

2102
02:28:50,680 --> 02:28:54,437
They go, "All right, bring it out," and
I'd get to play. And the kids my own age

2103
02:28:54,520 --> 02:28:58,370
didn't make the team. You know how it
is when there are a lot of kids around.

2104
02:28:59,120 --> 02:29:01,320
Of course, the older
boys would take charge.

2105
02:29:02,400 --> 02:29:05,511
They decide who's playing. Normally,
when you're ten and they're fifteen,

2106
02:29:05,595 --> 02:29:09,520
there was no chance you'd get picked.
But I was very lucky. I had the ball, so

2107
02:29:10,400 --> 02:29:12,343
I always made the team
and got to play with them.

2108
02:29:12,426 --> 02:29:14,037
That's where it all started, really, you

2109
02:29:14,120 --> 02:29:17,180
know. That love for football
started in my childhood.

2110
02:29:18,220 --> 02:29:22,057
My father and I always watched the big
matches together. I even remember

2111
02:29:22,140 --> 02:29:25,877
the 1998. I remember being
somewhere and literally

2112
02:29:25,960 --> 02:29:29,400
running home, so I wouldn't miss
the opening ceremony of the tournament

2113
02:29:29,484 --> 02:29:30,317
in France.

2114
02:29:31,960 --> 02:29:35,010
I was just running.
I ran to my grandfather's house and said,

2115
02:29:35,700 --> 02:29:39,597
"Grandpa, put on channel one." I think
it was channel one that was showing the

2116
02:29:39,680 --> 02:29:42,080
opening. Ronaldo was playing
in that tournament.

2117
02:29:44,400 --> 02:29:47,800
So I sat there watching, and my
grandfather looked at me. I was ten.

2118
02:29:49,220 --> 02:29:51,770
He looked at me and said,
"Why are you interested?"

2119
02:29:52,200 --> 02:29:56,157
I said, "I want to watch."
I sat and watched. The Brazilians won

2120
02:29:56,240 --> 02:29:59,697
both matches back then, I think.
They won against Morocco and lost to the

2121
02:29:59,780 --> 02:30:03,437
Norwegians. - The opening match was Brazil
against Scotland, two-one, right?

2122
02:30:03,520 --> 02:30:07,117
- Yeah, two to one.
So basically, from childhood, I

2123
02:30:07,200 --> 02:30:08,950
already had that love for football,

2124
02:30:09,640 --> 02:30:13,637
and then it just grew. I started watching
the Champions League, the Euros, the World

2125
02:30:13,720 --> 02:30:17,470
Cup, and later the domestic leagues,
mostly the Premier League.

2126
02:30:20,240 --> 02:30:22,657
So that's where this passion comes from.

2127
02:30:22,740 --> 02:30:26,357
- And what about national teams?
Brazil was your team growing up,

2128
02:30:26,440 --> 02:30:29,620
right? That legendary Brazil team.

2129
02:30:30,520 --> 02:30:34,380
- I like Brazil, yes. I also like
the Netherlands. Those national teams,

2130
02:30:34,680 --> 02:30:38,430
Brazil and the Netherlands, those were
the ones that really appealed to me.

2131
02:30:39,060 --> 02:30:42,460
- And what about clubs? What were
the main teams that you supported?

2132
02:30:43,120 --> 02:30:46,970
- It varied. I never had one national
team that I'd say was my favorite team.

2133
02:30:47,300 --> 02:30:47,927
- Ah, you didn't?

2134
02:30:48,010 --> 02:30:51,937
- I didn't. Today, I don't feel the same
way about the Netherlands. But back

2135
02:30:52,020 --> 02:30:55,960
then, I really liked that Dutch
team a lot. Van der Sar,

2136
02:30:56,220 --> 02:31:02,320
Reiziger, van Bronckhorst, Overmars,
Davids, Seedorf, van Nistelrooy, Makaay.

2137
02:31:04,200 --> 02:31:06,020
That old lineup. Kluivert.

2138
02:31:06,980 --> 02:31:10,577
Now it's not the same. That era is gone.
They just don't have players like that

2139
02:31:10,660 --> 02:31:14,610
anymore. In that sense, there's been
a bit of a drop-off for the national team.

2140
02:31:15,000 --> 02:31:18,857
The same with Brazil. Back then, they
were incredibly strong, but today it's not

2141
02:31:18,940 --> 02:31:20,290
at that same level anymore.

2142
02:31:21,160 --> 02:31:24,280
But when it comes to the club,
the club I follow, that's Real Madrid.

2143
02:31:24,364 --> 02:31:25,197
That's the one.

2144
02:31:25,520 --> 02:31:29,357
But if we're talking about leagues
overall, then because of the competition

2145
02:31:29,440 --> 02:31:32,920
and the way the league is played,
I'd say the English Premier League.

2146
02:31:34,300 --> 02:31:37,920
- And in the Premier League,
do you follow Man U, City?

2147
02:31:38,020 --> 02:31:41,937
- Not in a way where I have one team,
no. I like them. They're both top

2148
02:31:42,020 --> 02:31:45,657
clubs. They're big clubs.
I watch them. I follow them. It just

2149
02:31:45,740 --> 02:31:49,380
depends. But it's not like I
have one favorite. I do like City,

2150
02:31:49,560 --> 02:31:53,257
Manchester City. In recent years, they've
been winning almost everything. They've

2151
02:31:53,340 --> 02:31:54,990
dominated for the last ten years.

2152
02:31:56,120 --> 02:32:00,037
But if we look more closely
at Manchester City, there's

2153
02:32:00,120 --> 02:32:02,640
been a bit of a dip over
the last two seasons.

2154
02:32:05,120 --> 02:32:09,037
And then you also have the rise of Arsenal
in the last couple of seasons, a very

2155
02:32:09,120 --> 02:32:12,957
well-structured team under Arteta.
They're really on the rise this season.

2156
02:32:13,040 --> 02:32:16,437
They're leading the league, doing well
in the Champions League. They're leading

2157
02:32:16,520 --> 02:32:19,880
domestically as well,
so I don't know how far they'll go,

2158
02:32:20,460 --> 02:32:22,760
but they're aiming
for the treble this season.

2159
02:32:23,940 --> 02:32:28,860
- I wanna ask because we lived through
such a moment in sports history-

2160
02:32:29,120 --> 02:32:33,510
... that we might never see anything
like it again. I'm talking about this,

2161
02:32:35,080 --> 02:32:37,530
this rivalry between Messi
and Cristiano Ronaldo.

2162
02:32:38,600 --> 02:32:42,570
Of course, since you love
Real Madrid, you know, you

2163
02:32:42,660 --> 02:32:46,557
naturally love Cristiano Ronaldo,
but what can you say about it? A

2164
02:32:46,640 --> 02:32:50,820
lot of people call him the absolute best,
and for many, Messi is number one.

2165
02:32:51,860 --> 02:32:55,160
There's also a very good book
about their rivalry. I recommend it.

2166
02:32:56,720 --> 02:33:00,057
It basically tells the story
of modern football through their

2167
02:33:00,140 --> 02:33:06,400
rivalry, Messi versus Ronaldo,
one rivalry, almost 20-year era.

2168
02:33:06,520 --> 02:33:10,480
Uh, two GOATs in an era that remade
the world's game. So it's been

2169
02:33:10,660 --> 02:33:13,957
20 years. So what can you say?
Why do you consider Cristiano

2170
02:33:14,040 --> 02:33:18,960
Ronaldo a great footballer? What do you
like about him? Let's start with Ronaldo.

2171
02:33:21,260 --> 02:33:25,000
- Well, he's a natural
born athlete. He is...

2172
02:33:26,480 --> 02:33:30,100
God gave him the athleticism,
and he managed to maintain it.

2173
02:33:30,420 --> 02:33:32,320
There are many who have lost it.

2174
02:33:32,940 --> 02:33:37,480
There are many players who have talent,
physical ability, but they are lazy.

2175
02:33:38,340 --> 02:33:43,480
But he has it all, athleticism,
talent, hard work, everything,

2176
02:33:44,540 --> 02:33:48,430
and then there's this.
He played in Manchester. He moved.

2177
02:33:49,900 --> 02:33:53,400
He shone in Portugal at Sporting,
then moved to Manchester.

2178
02:33:54,040 --> 02:33:57,720
And it's not easy to make your
mark at Manchester. From 2003 to

2179
02:33:57,920 --> 02:34:01,760
2008, he became a star there,
and what he achieved in 2008,

2180
02:34:02,460 --> 02:34:06,357
just look at how many individual
trophies he won and how much he won with

2181
02:34:06,440 --> 02:34:10,297
his team. You can even look it up.
Just search what Cristiano Ronaldo

2182
02:34:10,380 --> 02:34:14,400
achieved in 2008.
It's simply unbelievable.

2183
02:34:15,680 --> 02:34:19,577
And then he moved from Manchester.
He transferred to an even more

2184
02:34:19,660 --> 02:34:23,780
difficult club, Real Madrid,
nine years at Real Madrid.

2185
02:34:24,060 --> 02:34:27,737
Five years at Manchester United,
then nine years at Real Madrid. That's

2186
02:34:27,820 --> 02:34:33,597
about 15 years. You're under constant
pressure at the two biggest clubs in the

2187
02:34:33,680 --> 02:34:34,790
history of football,

2188
02:34:35,760 --> 02:34:40,140
and at both clubs, at both clubs,
he became the best. That's very difficult.

2189
02:34:40,750 --> 02:34:44,247
- Yeah, look here. Three Premier League
titles came during his time at Manchester

2190
02:34:44,331 --> 02:34:48,917
United. - Look at 2008 specifically, what
he accomplished then. He won the Premier

2191
02:34:49,000 --> 02:34:52,857
League. He won the UEFA Champions
League. Individually, he won

2192
02:34:52,940 --> 02:34:56,760
the Golden Boot, top score
in the Champions League, the Premier

2193
02:34:56,860 --> 02:35:02,157
League, every major trophy. But the point
is that at Manchester, he spent five

2194
02:35:02,240 --> 02:35:05,977
years performing at the
highest level under enormous

2195
02:35:06,060 --> 02:35:09,817
pressure. Then he spent
nine years at Real Madrid.

2196
02:35:09,900 --> 02:35:13,637
After that, he moved to Juventus, but only
for a short time, and this is the part

2197
02:35:13,720 --> 02:35:17,437
people tend to forget. He spent
three seasons at Juventus, and he

2198
02:35:17,520 --> 02:35:22,480
also won both the Italian championship and
the Super Cup there and scored 100 goals.

2199
02:35:23,620 --> 02:35:26,100
And just the fact that for 20 years,

2200
02:35:27,100 --> 02:35:31,260
let's say 22 or 23 years,
he's been at the highest level.

2201
02:35:32,330 --> 02:35:36,277
Look at how many goals he scored, and now
he's closing in on 1,000. Will Messi

2202
02:35:36,360 --> 02:35:40,237
ever reach that number is the big
question. Next season, he scores 40

2203
02:35:40,320 --> 02:35:43,920
goals in a season, and he's
less than 40 goals away from the

2204
02:35:44,500 --> 02:35:48,240
1,000-goal mark. That's how
unique he is in that regard. But

2205
02:35:49,340 --> 02:35:52,970
just because I'm a Real Madrid
fan doesn't mean I downplay what

2206
02:35:53,060 --> 02:35:56,660
Messi has achieved. It's impossible
to downplay what Messi's done.

2207
02:35:57,140 --> 02:35:59,007
You have to give him
the credit he deserves,

2208
02:35:59,090 --> 02:36:00,967
but I wouldn't want
to put one of them above

2209
02:36:01,050 --> 02:36:03,940
the other. If I'm being
honest, both of them,

2210
02:36:04,980 --> 02:36:08,280
watching each other, competing
with each other, they stayed there.

2211
02:36:09,500 --> 02:36:12,813
Would Messi be Messi without Ronaldo?
Would Ronaldo be Ronaldo without Messi?

2212
02:36:12,897 --> 02:36:13,437
Those are big

2213
02:36:13,520 --> 02:36:17,217
questions. I'm convinced they watched
each other closely. They always

2214
02:36:17,300 --> 02:36:18,700
have, and they still do now.

2215
02:36:19,300 --> 02:36:23,000
For almost 20 years, they've been
watching each other, pushing each other,

2216
02:36:23,220 --> 02:36:26,937
and constantly improving. They were
already the best, but that drove them even

2217
02:36:27,020 --> 02:36:32,740
further. By competing against one another,
they pulled so far ahead of the rest.

2218
02:36:33,020 --> 02:36:36,977
Whether you're talking about achievements,
trophies, and all that, and in that

2219
02:36:37,060 --> 02:36:40,837
sense, their rivalry truly
elevated the entire sport. More

2220
02:36:40,920 --> 02:36:44,650
people started following football
because of them, watching the games.

2221
02:36:45,490 --> 02:36:48,640
So I believe both of them
deserve tremendous respect.

2222
02:36:49,520 --> 02:36:53,500
- Yeah. I'd say I completely
agree with you that if Messi

2223
02:36:54,540 --> 02:36:57,840
hadn't had Ronaldo
and Ronaldo hadn't had Messi-

2224
02:36:58,140 --> 02:36:59,617
- Yeah, would they have gone that far?

2225
02:36:59,700 --> 02:37:01,337
- I don't think so.
- It's an open question.

2226
02:37:01,420 --> 02:37:02,380
- I don't think so.

2227
02:37:02,760 --> 02:37:06,022
But for me, there is nobody like Messi,
his pure love for the game for its own

2228
02:37:06,106 --> 02:37:08,277
sake. - You're a Barca guy?

2229
02:37:08,360 --> 02:37:12,410
Oh, really? Yeah, I can tell from the way
you're talking about it, the way you...

2230
02:37:12,640 --> 02:37:15,640
- You got me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nothing against it, but...

2231
02:37:16,040 --> 02:37:19,600
- Yes, sure. Well, I mean, Iniesta, Xavi,

2232
02:37:19,700 --> 02:37:23,540
Busquets, Iniesta, Puyol,
that was a legendary team.

2233
02:37:23,640 --> 02:37:30,640
- Yes. No, but look, you can compare them
like this. Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets, Messi,

2234
02:37:32,960 --> 02:37:34,500
Ronaldinho, Piqué.

2235
02:37:35,120 --> 02:37:39,300
- Ronaldinho, yes. - Ronaldinho,
he was a bit earlier. That Barcelona team

2236
02:37:39,700 --> 02:37:43,140
from roughly 2008 to 2012,
that four-year period,

2237
02:37:43,660 --> 02:37:49,680
only one team in history can compare
with them, Real Madrid from 2014 to 2018.

2238
02:37:50,490 --> 02:37:53,780
They won in 2014, in 2016, 2017, and

2239
02:37:53,970 --> 02:37:57,470
2018. The only interruption
was Barcelona's team with Neymar.

2240
02:37:57,850 --> 02:37:58,800
- With Neymar, yes.

2241
02:37:59,010 --> 02:38:02,460
- With Suarez and Messi, that was 2015.
Well, let's leave that aside.

2242
02:38:03,030 --> 02:38:07,030
But, you know, with Modric,
Kroos, Casemiro, Ronaldo, Benzema,

2243
02:38:08,350 --> 02:38:15,350
Marcelo, Carvajal, Casillas,
and this team compared to Victor Valdes,

2244
02:38:16,730 --> 02:38:21,750
Pique, Puyol, Dani Alves,
Jordi Alba, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta,

2245
02:38:22,730 --> 02:38:26,070
Villa, and Messi, for me,
those are the two greatest teams.

2246
02:38:26,590 --> 02:38:31,890
Different generations, different squads.
For me, they truly represent a

2247
02:38:33,430 --> 02:38:38,290
represent true dream teams at football,
at club level. That's the comparison.

2248
02:38:39,290 --> 02:38:46,290
But if we look at the national team
level you could pick France in 1998.

2249
02:38:49,070 --> 02:38:56,070
That 1998 France team is very close
to a perfect team, and also 2002 Brazil.

2250
02:38:58,130 --> 02:39:00,110
In 2002, they were extremely strong.

2251
02:39:00,250 --> 02:39:07,050
- Yes, you had Ronaldo. - You had Ronaldo,
Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Cafu.

2252
02:39:07,930 --> 02:39:14,310
You had Emerson. You had Kleberson,
I think Roque Junior, Lucio, Edmilson.

2253
02:39:14,630 --> 02:39:18,447
And beyond those superstar names,
there were also very strong

2254
02:39:18,530 --> 02:39:21,840
players who kind of stayed
in the shadow of those stars.

2255
02:39:22,170 --> 02:39:27,230
Stayed in their shadow.
So Brazil 2002, France 1998,

2256
02:39:28,790 --> 02:39:35,530
and then there was later Spain from Euro
2008, the 2010 World Cup, and Euro

2257
02:39:35,630 --> 02:39:40,930
2012. That period, too, Spain. The Spanish
national team was close to perfect.

2258
02:39:41,710 --> 02:39:45,580
- I wanted to go back to France.
You mentioned Zidane. I really,

2259
02:39:45,810 --> 02:39:47,450
really respect and admire him.

2260
02:39:48,710 --> 02:39:52,307
There was this moment psychologically
very interesting, almost

2261
02:39:52,390 --> 02:39:55,100
Shakespearean moment in his
career when it ended with,

2262
02:39:55,950 --> 02:39:58,140
ended with that...
How do you even call it?

2263
02:39:58,910 --> 02:40:01,447
- A headbutt. A headbutt to the chest.

2264
02:40:01,530 --> 02:40:05,750
- What's interesting is, I don't know,
looking at your fight with Conor-

2265
02:40:06,010 --> 02:40:07,310
When emotion builds up,

2266
02:40:09,530 --> 02:40:14,150
for most of it you're focused on the game,
but in the end you let that emotion out.

2267
02:40:14,320 --> 02:40:16,220
What do you think about that headbutt?

2268
02:40:17,230 --> 02:40:18,780
- I wouldn't want to judge him,

2269
02:40:19,790 --> 02:40:23,510
wouldn't want to be some kind
of judge of what he did, no.

2270
02:40:24,400 --> 02:40:27,950
Well, he did what he did. We don't
know what was really going on there.

2271
02:40:29,170 --> 02:40:33,107
But as a player, of course, he was unique.
He won the Euros, the World

2272
02:40:33,190 --> 02:40:36,827
Cup, reached finals, won the Champions
League, the Spanish and the Italian

2273
02:40:36,910 --> 02:40:39,250
championships, and cups, too.

2274
02:40:41,150 --> 02:40:44,967
It's just unique, and the way he played,
I just always remembered him for

2275
02:40:45,050 --> 02:40:48,827
the way sweat was just pouring off
him, the way he ran, how he gave

2276
02:40:48,910 --> 02:40:52,487
everything in every single match.
He had incredible stamina,

2277
02:40:52,570 --> 02:40:56,410
incredible endurance. I think a lot
of people listening to this podcast

2278
02:40:56,890 --> 02:40:58,940
may not have watched Zidane playing live.

2279
02:40:59,950 --> 02:41:02,830
When I say live, I mean
watching him play in real time.

2280
02:41:03,510 --> 02:41:06,460
I personally didn't see his
games live. I was younger then.

2281
02:41:07,350 --> 02:41:11,260
But I did watch many of his matches
later on. I remember the goals he

2282
02:41:11,350 --> 02:41:14,760
scored in World Cup
finals in 1998 and 2006,

2283
02:41:15,150 --> 02:41:18,090
especially the headers,
and even that penalty,

2284
02:41:19,050 --> 02:41:22,327
the Champions League final,
European championships, the way he played,

2285
02:41:22,410 --> 02:41:26,470
the way he handled the ball,
the way the ball was,

2286
02:41:27,370 --> 02:41:31,650
the way the ball was glued to his feet,
his movements, and then his charisma.

2287
02:41:32,750 --> 02:41:36,407
It's rare to find all of that in one
player. You don't see that combination

2288
02:41:36,490 --> 02:41:40,090
often. There are many very good players,
but sometimes they're just not,

2289
02:41:42,490 --> 02:41:45,090
not that interesting to watch.
You know what I mean?

2290
02:41:46,250 --> 02:41:49,724
I don't want to give specific examples
because someone might take it the wrong

2291
02:41:49,808 --> 02:41:56,650
way, so I won't name anyone. But there
are players who are phenomenal in terms of

2292
02:41:57,210 --> 02:41:59,370
in terms of their physical attributes:

2293
02:42:00,550 --> 02:42:04,367
fast, explosive, effective.
But they don't have charisma, that energy

2294
02:42:04,450 --> 02:42:08,670
that makes people want to watch them,
and I don't think that's their fault.

2295
02:42:10,330 --> 02:42:14,310
But with Zidane, everything came together.
You always wanted to watch him play.

2296
02:42:15,270 --> 02:42:18,634
You always want to watch Ronaldo play.
You always want to watch Beckham play.

2297
02:42:18,717 --> 02:42:19,147
You want to

2298
02:42:19,230 --> 02:42:22,927
watch Edgar Davids running around the
field in those glasses, his hair bouncing

2299
02:42:23,010 --> 02:42:27,250
behind him, right? You still wanted
to watch the way Barthez played in goal.

2300
02:42:29,150 --> 02:42:32,687
No matter how many bizarre goals he
conceded, you still wanted to watch him

2301
02:42:32,770 --> 02:42:36,990
play. Or Oliver Kahn, the way he stood
in goal and directed the whole team,

2302
02:42:38,120 --> 02:42:42,050
the way he would rush out to the ball,
the way strikers were afraid of him.

2303
02:42:43,190 --> 02:42:46,787
I mean, so many strikers
have admitted that they were

2304
02:42:46,870 --> 02:42:51,130
afraid if they found themselves one-on-one
with Oliver Kahn in the penalty area.

2305
02:42:52,150 --> 02:42:55,867
You always wanted to watch Roberto
Carlos take a free kick or storm

2306
02:42:55,950 --> 02:42:57,810
down the left flank.

2307
02:42:57,990 --> 02:43:01,590
You always wanted to see Cafu or Michel
Salgado make an overlapping run.

2308
02:43:02,450 --> 02:43:06,387
The way Vieira stood there as the
defensive midfielder or somebody like

2309
02:43:06,470 --> 02:43:10,070
Maldini or like Rio Ferdinand
or somebody like that,

2310
02:43:10,630 --> 02:43:14,127
you wanted to watch Casillas
in goal. So, you know, for

2311
02:43:14,210 --> 02:43:17,710
me, and maybe for our generation,
those players had something special.

2312
02:43:18,090 --> 02:43:22,067
- Can you try to explain what charisma is?
Like you said, there are good players,

2313
02:43:22,150 --> 02:43:23,287
and then there is Zidane.

2314
02:43:23,370 --> 02:43:28,101
- It's very difficult to explain.
You either have it or you don't.

2315
02:43:28,184 --> 02:43:29,570
Personality, right?

2316
02:43:29,690 --> 02:43:33,380
- Yes, but there are so many different
forms of it. Zidane, in a way,

2317
02:43:33,750 --> 02:43:36,030
almost moved slowly, in a way.

2318
02:43:36,550 --> 02:43:40,100
- But he'd carry the ball from midfield
into attack incredibly quickly.

2319
02:43:40,750 --> 02:43:44,210
So it's very hard to put into
words, hard to explain it.

2320
02:43:44,930 --> 02:43:48,627
- And both Ronaldos had that. I mean,
the Brazilian Ronaldo too, the way he

2321
02:43:48,710 --> 02:43:52,317
played in those World Cups.
It was just phenomenal.

2322
02:43:52,400 --> 02:43:56,287
- '98, 2002.
Even in 2006 when he was already

2323
02:43:56,370 --> 02:44:00,317
past his peak. He was so fascinating to
watch. Seriously, how many people turned

2324
02:44:00,400 --> 02:44:04,180
on their TVs just to watch Ronaldo?
People knew that was it, that in

2325
02:44:04,280 --> 02:44:08,017
2010 he wouldn't be playing.
And even in 2006, he wasn't

2326
02:44:08,100 --> 02:44:11,997
really in his prime. But still, so many

2327
02:44:12,080 --> 02:44:17,500
people turned on the TV just to watch
him play. And Zidane, 2006 was really,

2328
02:44:18,580 --> 02:44:21,950
you know, the peak of that whole
generation of legends that had been

2329
02:44:22,034 --> 02:44:26,477
building since '98, 2000,
2002, and '04. All the cream of

2330
02:44:26,560 --> 02:44:30,360
the crop came in. Most of them
weren't at their physical peak anymore,

2331
02:44:30,640 --> 02:44:34,390
but the names were still there.
Honestly, I think that

2332
02:44:35,840 --> 02:44:39,377
for football fans, I'd recommend
just looking up the teams and the

2333
02:44:39,460 --> 02:44:42,040
lineups from the 2006 World Cup.

2334
02:44:43,300 --> 02:44:47,100
Look at the rosters. Every single
team had stars you wanted to watch.

2335
02:44:48,400 --> 02:44:52,220
- Speaking of teams, what style
of football do you like? You prefer short

2336
02:44:52,340 --> 02:44:55,100
passing, long balls, individual plays,

2337
02:44:55,940 --> 02:44:59,337
you know, like Maradona carrying
the ball or, of course, Cristiano

2338
02:44:59,420 --> 02:45:02,527
Ronaldo taking the ball
and scoring himself?

2339
02:45:02,610 --> 02:45:04,610
- Mostly those who take the initiative.

2340
02:45:05,200 --> 02:45:05,797
- You like that?

2341
02:45:05,880 --> 02:45:09,580
- Yeah, definitely. I like players
who are willing to take the initiative.

2342
02:45:09,920 --> 02:45:13,617
I was recently talking to Zlatan
about this, and he said, "It drives me

2343
02:45:13,700 --> 02:45:17,810
crazy when I have players on my team
who, when you pass them the ball,

2344
02:45:18,700 --> 02:45:22,557
they immediately get rid of it.
They don't want to take the initiative."

2345
02:45:22,640 --> 02:45:26,537
When you have three or more players
on the team, if there are three people on

2346
02:45:26,620 --> 02:45:30,417
the team who are not afraid to make
mistakes, that's usually enough. They

2347
02:45:30,500 --> 02:45:34,197
take the initiative, take control
of the game, drive the team forward, make

2348
02:45:34,280 --> 02:45:38,077
mistakes, but they keep trying.
And then there are others who hide, he

2349
02:45:38,160 --> 02:45:40,867
says. They get the ball
and immediately pass it to someone else.

2350
02:45:40,950 --> 02:45:42,200
Just don't give it to me.

2351
02:45:42,520 --> 02:45:47,000
Not me. Not me. They just want
to get rid of the ball. It's like...

2352
02:45:48,760 --> 02:45:52,597
You know, it's like something one
of Zidane's coaches once said. If you

2353
02:45:52,680 --> 02:45:58,640
don't know what to do with the ball, give
it to Zidane. He'll figure it out, so...

2354
02:45:59,500 --> 02:46:02,980
You see, that's the thing. It's a quality

2355
02:46:03,840 --> 02:46:08,130
not every player has.
You're taking the ball.

2356
02:46:09,020 --> 02:46:11,970
You're taking responsibility.
You're taking the initiative.

2357
02:46:13,040 --> 02:46:16,500
You are not afraid to fail.
You're not afraid to make a mistake.

2358
02:46:16,680 --> 02:46:20,617
Cristiano had a moment like that.
He missed a penalty, and later in

2359
02:46:20,700 --> 02:46:23,200
the same match, he stepped
up to take another one.

2360
02:46:24,100 --> 02:46:27,937
Think about that. You take the first
penalty. You miss it. Then another

2361
02:46:28,020 --> 02:46:31,897
penalty comes along, and you still
step up to take it. Because if you miss

2362
02:46:31,980 --> 02:46:34,997
two penalties in the same game,
you're under a lot of pressure, right?

2363
02:46:35,080 --> 02:46:35,657
But that's the

2364
02:46:35,740 --> 02:46:38,777
point. You're not afraid to fail.
As a leader, you take the initiative,

2365
02:46:38,860 --> 02:46:39,597
and you're

2366
02:46:39,680 --> 02:46:43,760
you're willing to take risks. That's
honestly the beauty of it, the beauty of

2367
02:46:44,880 --> 02:46:48,637
sports in general. The bigger the risk,
the bigger the potential for greatness.

2368
02:46:48,720 --> 02:46:51,520
If there's no risk, then there's no...

2369
02:46:53,160 --> 02:46:56,817
You can't make, can't put yourself
in the category of athletes

2370
02:46:56,900 --> 02:46:59,500
people will talk about
as some of the best ever.

2371
02:47:00,900 --> 02:47:04,940
- Especially when it's a high-level
game like the World Cup and...

2372
02:47:05,800 --> 02:47:09,100
- Yes. The more risk, the sweeter
the victory. There must be risk.

2373
02:47:09,280 --> 02:47:13,137
- That's why they often speak
of Maradona as a great player. There are

2374
02:47:13,220 --> 02:47:16,417
many great players.
He's great- - One of them, yeah

2375
02:47:16,500 --> 02:47:20,437
-...for many reasons. But one reason
is that he kinda, kinda carried the

2376
02:47:20,520 --> 02:47:24,170
team on his shoulders. - He took
the initiative and carried them. That's,

2377
02:47:25,120 --> 02:47:28,638
that's when he led Napoli, you know?
When he led Napoli to the league title.

2378
02:47:28,721 --> 02:47:29,077
Who knew

2379
02:47:29,160 --> 02:47:35,630
Napoli then? Maradona came from Barcelona
to Napoli and made them champions,

2380
02:47:36,140 --> 02:47:40,017
and the whole stadium was named after him.
Many guys played in Napoli, but there

2381
02:47:40,100 --> 02:47:43,997
was never anyone like Maradona.
And recently, I

2382
02:47:44,080 --> 02:47:47,360
saw somewhere,
or I think someone pointed out,

2383
02:47:50,180 --> 02:47:52,980
the pressure on the guys who
are transferring to Napoli.

2384
02:47:54,140 --> 02:47:56,990
Whoever you are, you will
always be in Maradona's shadow,

2385
02:47:57,420 --> 02:48:01,337
and you stay in the shadow because
fans will never give you the

2386
02:48:01,420 --> 02:48:05,217
credit you might deserve because
they will always compare you to

2387
02:48:05,300 --> 02:48:09,080
him. Are you Maradona or not?
And if you're not Maradona,

2388
02:48:09,320 --> 02:48:11,640
you will never get full recognition.

2389
02:48:11,780 --> 02:48:14,843
- I want to say that one of the things
that makes Messi great, I think,

2390
02:48:14,927 --> 02:48:15,657
is that he really

2391
02:48:15,740 --> 02:48:19,840
had to live in such a shadow of Maradona,
and especially with the World Cup.

2392
02:48:20,860 --> 02:48:23,037
- Yes. - It's not easy.
- And he came out of it.

2393
02:48:23,120 --> 02:48:24,797
- Hard to emerge from that shadow.

2394
02:48:24,880 --> 02:48:29,352
- Yes. And he won the World
Cup, yeah. In that sense,

2395
02:48:29,435 --> 02:48:32,100
you have to give Messi his due.

2396
02:48:33,240 --> 02:48:38,177
I'm addressing the Real Madrid fans now.
Ours, yours, both sides.

2397
02:48:38,260 --> 02:48:39,157
- You're explaining it to them.

2398
02:48:39,240 --> 02:48:44,900
- Yeah, yeah. - I got you. - Most of them,
I think even if they don't like Barcelona,

2399
02:48:45,860 --> 02:48:47,810
they still recognize Messi's greatness.

2400
02:48:48,160 --> 02:48:53,000
- I know that you met Zlatan. You talked
to him. I think he's one of the most,

2401
02:48:54,340 --> 02:48:55,640
most self-confident people

2402
02:48:56,540 --> 02:49:00,457
in football, in the world in general. What
do you think about this confidence? Of

2403
02:49:00,540 --> 02:49:04,880
course, he's joking around a little bit,
but I think he really believes in himself.

2404
02:49:05,720 --> 02:49:07,270
- Well, yeah, he does. He does.

2405
02:49:07,800 --> 02:49:11,577
I've known Zlatan for years now.
We get along well, and I know

2406
02:49:11,660 --> 02:49:15,520
his kids, and I like his personality.
I like his confidence.

2407
02:49:15,820 --> 02:49:17,320
I mean, he's a unique player.

2408
02:49:18,700 --> 02:49:21,682
There are not many Zlatans in football.
You know, wherever he played,

2409
02:49:21,765 --> 02:49:22,615
he always scored.

2410
02:49:23,200 --> 02:49:25,900
He's a goal scorer.
He is that kind of center forward,

2411
02:49:26,340 --> 02:49:29,940
and he always carried the team.
He was a leader wherever he transferred.

2412
02:49:30,620 --> 02:49:34,377
It doesn't matter. Milan, Inter,
Juventus, when he moved to LA

2413
02:49:34,460 --> 02:49:36,580
Galaxy or Paris Saint-Germain.

2414
02:49:38,040 --> 02:49:41,960
He was a leader everywhere he went,
with the national team, with his clubs.

2415
02:49:42,280 --> 02:49:45,780
He was always the guy driving the team
forward, taking the initiative.

2416
02:49:46,660 --> 02:49:50,537
And honestly, he cemented his
place as one of the greatest

2417
02:49:50,620 --> 02:49:55,700
players to ever play the game.
And yeah, maybe he was...

2418
02:49:57,580 --> 02:50:01,420
When it comes to trophies, not
individual achievements, but team honors,

2419
02:50:01,840 --> 02:50:03,060
Sweden wasn't such a

2420
02:50:03,900 --> 02:50:07,900
Wasn't exactly the greatest team,
and some of the clubs he played for

2421
02:50:09,900 --> 02:50:15,820
didn't always win the biggest
trophies. But as an athlete,

2422
02:50:16,760 --> 02:50:22,540
as an individual, as a person,
he is a very strong athlete.

2423
02:50:23,820 --> 02:50:27,717
- We talked a lot about Dagestan, talked
a lot about America. You're in Dubai

2424
02:50:27,800 --> 02:50:31,700
a lot these days. Do you like
it there? Also, you have spoken

2425
02:50:33,380 --> 02:50:34,980
very highly about Sheikh Hamdan.

2426
02:50:36,280 --> 02:50:40,057
What do you like about Dubai? What do you
like about this region? And what do you

2427
02:50:40,140 --> 02:50:42,080
respect about Sheikh Hamdan?

2428
02:50:43,340 --> 02:50:47,277
- Our team's been in Dubai for seven
to eight years now. We train at the

2429
02:50:47,360 --> 02:50:51,210
Nad Al Sheba Sports Complex.
The NAS Sports Complex,

2430
02:50:51,320 --> 02:50:57,240
this is under Sheikh Hamdan's office. It's
like his home, his place. We train there,

2431
02:50:58,160 --> 02:51:00,000
we eat there, we live there.

2432
02:51:00,840 --> 02:51:07,840
Sheikh Hamdan helps us with everything and
takes care of us. The way he treats us,

2433
02:51:09,180 --> 02:51:16,180
what he does for us, his support is just
limitless. He supports us in everything,

2434
02:51:17,720 --> 02:51:19,535
and it's not just one,
two, or three years.

2435
02:51:19,618 --> 02:51:21,568
It's already been seven or eight years.

2436
02:51:23,220 --> 02:51:28,080
And I am very, very grateful to him.
The way he welcomed us,

2437
02:51:29,920 --> 02:51:36,267
took us in, and helped us, continues
to help, it's hard to put it into words

2438
02:51:36,350 --> 02:51:43,350
how grateful we are. Our entire team
is very grateful to him, and he knows it.

2439
02:51:43,483 --> 02:51:46,800
So in general, Dubai has
become... Actually, the

2440
02:51:48,500 --> 02:51:52,460
Emirates, Dubai, and Abu
Dhabi have become like a

2441
02:51:52,600 --> 02:51:56,340
second home for us.
And so it happened that over the

2442
02:51:57,260 --> 02:52:01,117
last six or seven years,
the UFC has been holding events in

2443
02:52:01,200 --> 02:52:04,987
Abu Dhabi, and the PFL has
been putting on events in

2444
02:52:05,070 --> 02:52:09,000
Dubai. These are two of the biggest
MMA organizations in the world,

2445
02:52:09,480 --> 02:52:13,397
and a lot of our guys compete there.
We arrive before the fight, we

2446
02:52:13,480 --> 02:52:15,760
stay, we do training camps, they compete.

2447
02:52:16,940 --> 02:52:21,480
We are incredibly fortunate that we
have support at the government level.

2448
02:52:22,760 --> 02:52:26,257
In Abu Dhabi, we've been supported
by Sheikh Mohammed, Sheikh

2449
02:52:26,340 --> 02:52:33,000
Tahnoon, and Sheikh Mansour. And in Dubai,
Sheikh Hamdan has really taken us

2450
02:52:33,100 --> 02:52:36,500
in like his own team,
like younger brothers.

2451
02:52:37,280 --> 02:52:41,017
In that respect, we've been incredibly
fortunate, and our entire team is

2452
02:52:41,100 --> 02:52:44,280
deeply grateful for their support.

2453
02:52:44,940 --> 02:52:48,700
- And they've created a country that
has become one of the world's central

2454
02:52:48,800 --> 02:52:51,080
hubs. People from everywhere travel there.

2455
02:52:52,080 --> 02:52:55,777
- It's unique, right? The local
population is only around one and a half

2456
02:52:55,860 --> 02:52:58,380
million people,
actually even less than that.

2457
02:53:00,240 --> 02:53:03,760
But, you know, there's
such an influx of tourists,

2458
02:53:04,100 --> 02:53:06,660
people, business people, major events,

2459
02:53:07,480 --> 02:53:11,017
and everything happening in terms
of business and sports is just

2460
02:53:11,100 --> 02:53:16,900
incredible. What's happening in Dubai
and Abu Dhabi is, it's like nothing else.

2461
02:53:17,820 --> 02:53:21,737
The only places you could really compare
it to are major global cities like New

2462
02:53:21,820 --> 02:53:25,557
York, London, Paris, Tokyo. But those are

2463
02:53:25,640 --> 02:53:29,557
huge metropolitan areas
with populations of well over

2464
02:53:29,640 --> 02:53:33,600
twenty million people, and they have
centuries of history behind them.

2465
02:53:34,560 --> 02:53:40,600
And here, they've built cities, an entire
country really, in just a few decades

2466
02:53:41,560 --> 02:53:48,270
and turned it into a kind of magnet.
It's like a magnet that attracts everyone.

2467
02:53:49,540 --> 02:53:53,400
The country's location, its logistics,
the sheer number of people

2468
02:53:53,500 --> 02:53:57,317
coming in, not just visiting,
but wanting to move there, live

2469
02:53:57,400 --> 02:54:00,020
there, and start businesses,
it's remarkable.

2470
02:54:01,000 --> 02:54:04,777
It's a unique place in today's world. With

2471
02:54:04,860 --> 02:54:08,557
everything that's happening around
the globe right now, this country really

2472
02:54:08,640 --> 02:54:13,380
stands out because of the opportunities
it offers. It's unique in that sense.

2473
02:54:14,680 --> 02:54:18,160
- Now I'd like to ask you this. For you,

2474
02:54:19,080 --> 02:54:25,680
your Muslim faith and God, it's obviously
central to your life and to who you are.

2475
02:54:27,180 --> 02:54:30,580
Can you explain what role
God plays in your life?

2476
02:54:32,980 --> 02:54:36,640
- Well, first of all,
I was born, raised, and brought up

2477
02:54:37,320 --> 02:54:39,580
in a Muslim family, in a Muslim community.

2478
02:54:44,080 --> 02:54:47,977
Since childhood, religion's always been
the most important thing for me. And

2479
02:54:48,060 --> 02:54:51,440
when I say religion,
the first thing I mean is Salah,

2480
02:54:51,680 --> 02:54:55,277
Namaz. And my entire
life in general, my daily

2481
02:54:55,360 --> 02:54:59,057
routine, the way I lived,
trained, studied, and everything

2482
02:54:59,140 --> 02:55:01,820
else has always been built around Salah.

2483
02:55:03,300 --> 02:55:06,937
The rest was scheduled around it.
Even today, when I was

2484
02:55:07,020 --> 02:55:10,677
choosing time for this podcast,
I knew we'd be talking for a couple of

2485
02:55:10,760 --> 02:55:14,740
hours, so I deliberately picked
a time right after the midday prayer.

2486
02:55:16,020 --> 02:55:19,640
I pray, come here, finish up here
with you, and then go pray again.

2487
02:55:21,900 --> 02:55:25,657
That's how my life's been, and still is,
and that's how it will continue to

2488
02:55:25,740 --> 02:55:29,417
be, I hope. I've always tried to

2489
02:55:29,500 --> 02:55:33,400
organize my life around worship,
because first and foremost, my

2490
02:55:33,520 --> 02:55:36,220
purpose in this life
is to worship the one God.

2491
02:55:37,420 --> 02:55:43,800
Everything that happens after that is,
it's secondary, so to speak.

2492
02:55:45,580 --> 02:55:49,470
And faith in God and learning
more and just striving to

2493
02:55:49,560 --> 02:55:53,640
get closer to God, that continues
throughout our entire lives.

2494
02:55:55,240 --> 02:56:02,240
So in that regard, I'm very grateful
to the Almighty for opening this door

2495
02:56:05,380 --> 02:56:09,197
of understanding and reflection
for me, for helping me

2496
02:56:09,280 --> 02:56:13,560
realize that we are all servants
of God and that our purpose

2497
02:56:15,060 --> 02:56:21,617
in life is to serve one God. - And as you
were explaining that helped you in your

2498
02:56:21,700 --> 02:56:25,097
career in the sense that, you know,

2499
02:56:25,180 --> 02:56:28,630
psychologically, by keeping you
from letting success go to your head?

2500
02:56:28,730 --> 02:56:33,407
- That helped me with everything.
I've always placed my only hope in

2501
02:56:33,490 --> 02:56:34,400
the Almighty.

2502
02:56:35,160 --> 02:56:39,097
Whatever situation I might face,
I've always believed that only the

2503
02:56:39,180 --> 02:56:42,040
Almighty can truly make it easier for me.

2504
02:56:43,420 --> 02:56:47,200
And when it comes to not
letting success go to your head,

2505
02:56:47,500 --> 02:56:51,440
not becoming proud,
not becoming full of yourself,

2506
02:56:51,880 --> 02:56:55,040
religion and my faith in Allah
have helped me with that too.

2507
02:56:55,860 --> 02:57:01,440
I truly believe that only faith can help a
person get through life's hardest trials.

2508
02:57:02,440 --> 02:57:09,440
And sometimes I think about people
who suffer the loss of a loved one,

2509
02:57:10,680 --> 02:57:14,217
someone very close to them.
For example, when I lost my

2510
02:57:14,300 --> 02:57:18,077
father, I remember thinking to myself,
"If I didn't believe in the

2511
02:57:18,160 --> 02:57:20,760
Almighty, if I didn't have faith in God

2512
02:57:22,540 --> 02:57:26,247
and understand that it was predestined,
that we all come into

2513
02:57:26,330 --> 02:57:29,940
this world and then leave it,
that no one stays here forever,

2514
02:57:30,800 --> 02:57:34,420
that no one belongs to anyone,
and we all belong to the Almighty,

2515
02:57:34,720 --> 02:57:38,637
and that we will all return to Him,
I don't know how I would have coped with

2516
02:57:38,720 --> 02:57:42,457
it." I'm a very emotional person.
I think it would have

2517
02:57:42,540 --> 02:57:46,500
been extremely difficult for me to go
through all of that without faith.

2518
02:57:47,480 --> 02:57:50,430
In that sense, I feel fortunate
to have this understanding.

2519
02:57:51,280 --> 02:57:55,600
- So faith really helped you
when you lost your father?

2520
02:57:57,230 --> 02:58:00,180
- This was the only thing that helped.
Nothing else worked.

2521
02:58:00,520 --> 02:58:05,260
I know a couple of people who have
lost someone very close to them,

2522
02:58:07,520 --> 02:58:14,520
and they struggle to accept it. They would
ask, "Why? Why? Why?" So many questions.

2523
02:58:16,300 --> 02:58:19,817
I told them, to answer that question,
you need to go deeper into

2524
02:58:19,900 --> 02:58:22,040
religion and try to understand

2525
02:58:23,280 --> 02:58:26,957
why were you even born in the first place,
and why do these thoughts even come

2526
02:58:27,040 --> 02:58:30,757
into your head? And what if you didn't
have any thoughts at all? What if you

2527
02:58:30,840 --> 02:58:34,037
couldn't think, couldn't
understand anything? These

2528
02:58:34,120 --> 02:58:37,997
thoughts, this awareness,
your mind, your abilities, none of

2529
02:58:38,080 --> 02:58:41,600
that was there before.
Then it appeared. Why?

2530
02:58:42,380 --> 02:58:46,220
That's the question. None of us existed.
Then we were born. We were little.

2531
02:58:46,320 --> 02:58:48,976
We weren't aware of anything.
We didn't remember anything.

2532
02:58:49,059 --> 02:58:52,400
Then little by little,
we grew up and became adults.

2533
02:58:53,880 --> 02:58:57,640
We became successful, became
somebody. We became who we are.

2534
02:58:58,100 --> 02:59:01,657
So why did all of this come
specifically to you? There are so many

2535
02:59:01,740 --> 02:59:03,700
questions like that. And so

2536
02:59:05,200 --> 02:59:12,080
these questions are, let's say,
a kind of guide through life. And for me

2537
02:59:12,900 --> 02:59:15,980
that's what religion is.
It guides me and helps me.

2538
02:59:17,840 --> 02:59:20,860
- You often say, "Alhamdulillah,

2539
02:59:21,980 --> 02:59:26,320
all praise to God." That's very powerful,
that sense of gratitude. Can you tell us,

2540
02:59:27,500 --> 02:59:29,500
can you explain why you say it so often?

2541
02:59:31,040 --> 02:59:34,390
- You know the saying, the tongue
speaks what the heart is full of.

2542
02:59:36,360 --> 02:59:39,977
The way you speak shows what's
in your heart. If you have

2543
02:59:40,060 --> 02:59:43,260
something dark in your heart,
your words will show it, no doubt.

2544
02:59:43,960 --> 02:59:47,460
We all have some dark parts in our hearts.

2545
02:59:48,840 --> 02:59:52,160
Every single person has them.
Sometimes they come out in

2546
02:59:53,940 --> 03:00:00,440
what we say, how we express ourselves,
what we share with people, and so on.

2547
03:00:01,500 --> 03:00:05,010
Everyone has that.
But if your heart is mostly good and pure,

2548
03:00:05,460 --> 03:00:10,520
then that will also be
reflected in your speech. And

2549
03:00:12,140 --> 03:00:16,077
And I just like praising
the Almighty and giving all the

2550
03:00:16,160 --> 03:00:20,820
credit for my success back to Him because

2551
03:00:22,180 --> 03:00:25,477
everything we have is given to us
by the Almighty. Throughout the

2552
03:00:25,560 --> 03:00:29,417
history, there have been many
people who made big mistakes after

2553
03:00:29,500 --> 03:00:33,077
becoming successful,
powerful, and wealthy, and they

2554
03:00:33,160 --> 03:00:39,340
started saying, "No, no, this happened to
me because I'm so great, because I'm so,

2555
03:00:41,860 --> 03:00:45,777
I'm so intelligent, because
I had vision, because I've

2556
03:00:45,860 --> 03:00:49,677
got the brains, because I'm
extremely capable. That's why

2557
03:00:49,760 --> 03:00:53,377
all of this came my way."
But at the same time, there were many

2558
03:00:53,460 --> 03:00:59,740
others who worked just as hard,
who weren't any less intelligent,

2559
03:01:00,140 --> 03:01:05,500
and the Almighty just didn't give it
to them. He chose you and gave it to you,

2560
03:01:06,180 --> 03:01:09,997
and you just have to give the credit back
to Him. You shouldn't take the credit for

2561
03:01:10,080 --> 03:01:13,040
yourself. That's what I believe.

2562
03:01:14,620 --> 03:01:18,000
And it's something I've come
to through studying my religion.

2563
03:01:20,460 --> 03:01:24,357
I understand that everything the Almighty
has given to me is not because

2564
03:01:24,440 --> 03:01:28,400
of who I am. It's simply something
God has given me as a test

2565
03:01:29,020 --> 03:01:32,757
to test me and, in the end,
see which of my deeds outweigh the

2566
03:01:32,840 --> 03:01:35,160
others, the good or the bad.

2567
03:01:38,020 --> 03:01:41,840
Because as a believer,
I believe that there will be judgment

2568
03:01:43,680 --> 03:01:46,920
and everything we have,
everything we do, every action we take,

2569
03:01:48,540 --> 03:01:52,437
we will be held accountable
for it. There will be a day

2570
03:01:52,520 --> 03:01:56,080
of judgment, there will be scales,
and everything will be weighed.

2571
03:01:58,720 --> 03:02:05,160
- What advice would you give young
people about life and their careers?

2572
03:02:06,640 --> 03:02:09,590
Millions of people are watching
you and deeply respect you.

2573
03:02:11,440 --> 03:02:13,790
What would you say about
how to live your life?

2574
03:02:15,040 --> 03:02:17,950
And how do you find
your path and stay on it?

2575
03:02:19,620 --> 03:02:23,067
- Well, I wouldn't want to speak
just from my own perspective.

2576
03:02:23,150 --> 03:02:24,460
I'd rather bring people

2577
03:02:27,160 --> 03:02:30,920
back to the scripture,
to what the Almighty said, "Read."

2578
03:02:31,940 --> 03:02:38,340
That's the first word revealed in the Holy
Quran. The first command is read or ikra.

2579
03:02:39,740 --> 03:02:43,580
So to everyone listening to or
watching this podcast, I would want

2580
03:02:43,680 --> 03:02:50,040
to bring them back to that. Read,
meaning what? Educate yourself, observe,

2581
03:02:50,180 --> 03:02:57,180
learn, improve, but don't stay in one
place. And anything a person is truly

2582
03:02:58,300 --> 03:03:02,077
looking for, if they genuinely
want to find it, not just

2583
03:03:02,160 --> 03:03:06,037
find an answer, but find
the truth, they can reach

2584
03:03:06,120 --> 03:03:10,040
it, but they can never reach
it without reading. They

2585
03:03:10,140 --> 03:03:14,800
need to read. When a person reads,
what they read enters them

2586
03:03:15,620 --> 03:03:19,900
into their body, their heart,
their mind, and it triggers a search.

2587
03:03:21,140 --> 03:03:24,897
A search for knowledge begins inside them,
but if you don't read, you won't find

2588
03:03:24,980 --> 03:03:28,870
anything. Just listening to someone
is one thing, but reading is something

2589
03:03:28,960 --> 03:03:32,320
different. So my advice would be read

2590
03:03:33,900 --> 03:03:37,837
and find within yourself
the strength to come closer to

2591
03:03:37,920 --> 03:03:42,980
one God and seek to understand why
we were sent here in the first place.

2592
03:03:45,740 --> 03:03:50,640
Today, you and me, we're
almost the same age. So let's

2593
03:03:51,520 --> 03:03:57,160
just think about this. For example,
my grandfather on my mother's side

2594
03:03:57,660 --> 03:04:04,620
passed away in two thousand and three.
Now it's twenty twenty-six.

2595
03:04:06,120 --> 03:04:08,720
He's been lying in the grave
for twenty-three years.

2596
03:04:11,140 --> 03:04:12,890
And then there was his grandfather,

2597
03:04:13,340 --> 03:04:17,137
or let's say his great-grandfather
who also died and has been in the

2598
03:04:17,220 --> 03:04:19,700
grave for over a hundred
years, roughly speaking.

2599
03:04:21,620 --> 03:04:24,244
But what about people who
died two thousand years ago?

2600
03:04:24,327 --> 03:04:28,240
They've been in the grave for two
thousand years. What's next?

2601
03:04:30,220 --> 03:04:34,117
It's a good question, isn't it? They've
just been in the grave all this time, and

2602
03:04:34,200 --> 03:04:35,033
that's it.

2603
03:04:36,400 --> 03:04:40,197
So what was the purpose of their life?
A person has been in the grave for two

2604
03:04:40,280 --> 03:04:43,260
thousand years, but maybe
lived for seventy years.

2605
03:04:44,320 --> 03:04:48,217
Roughly speaking, let's say one hundred.
They lived for one hundred years

2606
03:04:48,300 --> 03:04:50,500
and have been in the
grave for two thousand.

2607
03:04:51,320 --> 03:04:53,610
So what matters more,
those one hundred years

2608
03:04:55,140 --> 03:04:58,957
or these two thousand years?
And what happens after those two thousand

2609
03:04:59,040 --> 03:05:02,937
years end? People believe different
things, whether there is a day

2610
03:05:03,020 --> 03:05:06,897
of judgment or not. That's where
the difference lies between a believer and

2611
03:05:06,980 --> 03:05:10,817
a non-believer. After everyone
is resurrected, there will be the day of

2612
03:05:10,900 --> 03:05:14,497
judgment. There will be judgment,
and after that, people will

2613
03:05:14,580 --> 03:05:17,980
enter eternity.
Eternity compared to eternity,

2614
03:05:18,640 --> 03:05:22,290
what are two thousand years? They're
nothing. And we live for, let's say,

2615
03:05:22,400 --> 03:05:29,400
seventy years. And many people choose
those seventy years over eternal life.

2616
03:05:31,240 --> 03:05:35,077
And if a person understands
that these seventy years they have

2617
03:05:35,160 --> 03:05:38,520
here, roughly speaking,
seventy or eighty years

2618
03:05:40,940 --> 03:05:44,757
are meant to be used to prepare
for what comes after, so that when the

2619
03:05:44,840 --> 03:05:48,076
day of judgment arrives, and after
that judgment they can live forever,

2620
03:05:48,159 --> 03:05:52,777
not in hell, but in heaven. If that
becomes their ultimate goal, then they

2621
03:05:52,860 --> 03:05:57,540
will strive to do good deeds because
they will fear the day of judgment.

2622
03:05:58,370 --> 03:06:01,899
And that's really what life is about,
preparing yourself for the day

2623
03:06:01,982 --> 03:06:02,816
of judgment.

2624
03:06:03,570 --> 03:06:07,377
- That's true. To truly understand life
and its deeper meaning, you have to think

2625
03:06:07,460 --> 03:06:12,800
about eternity. Only then can
you really understand your role.

2626
03:06:13,100 --> 03:06:18,600
- Actually, it can keep a person
away from evil. From evil and,

2627
03:06:20,740 --> 03:06:23,440
and it can stop them from
treating other people badly.

2628
03:06:24,580 --> 03:06:28,357
It can hold a person back. But if you
don't have that understanding, if a

2629
03:06:28,440 --> 03:06:31,790
person lives completely convinced
that there's nothing after death,

2630
03:06:32,260 --> 03:06:36,177
what's there to stop him from doing evil?
Just like that. What do

2631
03:06:36,260 --> 03:06:40,480
you think? And on top of that,
an even more dangerous combination.

2632
03:06:42,140 --> 03:06:47,600
You become powerful, wealthy,
and you become famous. What now?

2633
03:06:49,320 --> 03:06:53,060
Suddenly every door is open to you.
Just imagine a person like that.

2634
03:06:53,620 --> 03:06:57,480
And on top of all that, he doesn't
believe in the day of judgment.

2635
03:06:58,020 --> 03:07:01,897
He doesn't believe he'll be held
accountable for his actions. That's, you

2636
03:07:01,980 --> 03:07:07,500
know, it's like a nuclear bomb. He can
end up causing harm to people everywhere.

2637
03:07:08,720 --> 03:07:12,217
But if you know that for
everything you have here, you'll

2638
03:07:12,300 --> 03:07:16,160
eventually have to answer,
that there will be a day of judgment

2639
03:07:16,420 --> 03:07:20,277
and that you'll be called to account,
and if you fail that test, you'll

2640
03:07:20,360 --> 03:07:24,200
burn in hell forever. That'll
make you rein yourself in a little.

2641
03:07:25,940 --> 03:07:28,171
You'll have to take
that into consideration.

2642
03:07:28,255 --> 03:07:32,440
You'll have to tighten things up a little.
You'll begin to understand

2643
03:07:34,220 --> 03:07:37,957
that you're not nearly as important
as the image you've created of

2644
03:07:38,040 --> 03:07:44,009
yourself in your own mind.
You start becoming more, as Americans say,

2645
03:07:44,092 --> 03:07:45,320
down to earth.

2646
03:07:45,440 --> 03:07:50,100
You become more grounded. You're not
flying, you're walking on the ground.

2647
03:07:50,580 --> 03:07:52,160
- You once put it beautifully.

2648
03:07:54,260 --> 03:07:59,120
You can allow money and fame to stay
in your hand, but not in your heart.

2649
03:08:01,960 --> 03:08:05,717
You've still got many years ahead of you,
but you're already an example of

2650
03:08:05,800 --> 03:08:11,077
someone who's become famous,
made money, and remained the same person.

2651
03:08:11,160 --> 03:08:13,860
- If money stays in your
hands and not in your heart

2652
03:08:14,770 --> 03:08:18,138
That's a good thing. But the moment
it gets into a person's heart,

2653
03:08:18,221 --> 03:08:19,110
it corrupts them.

2654
03:08:19,270 --> 03:08:23,127
Once it's there, it's very difficult
to pull it out of your heart. If you have

2655
03:08:23,210 --> 03:08:26,727
wealth in your hands
and use it properly for good

2656
03:08:26,810 --> 03:08:30,667
causes, for the right purposes,
for people in need, for

2657
03:08:30,750 --> 03:08:35,750
your family, relatives, friends,
people from your hometown,

2658
03:08:36,810 --> 03:08:40,687
that's a good thing. But as soon as that
wealth gets into your heart, it becomes

2659
03:08:40,770 --> 03:08:44,627
very difficult to share
it with others. And this

2660
03:08:44,710 --> 03:08:49,770
is a very dangerous place
for a person to end up.

2661
03:08:50,790 --> 03:08:54,527
And I'm sorry, but as a believer,
I believe that most people in

2662
03:08:54,610 --> 03:08:56,230
hell will be wealthy.

2663
03:08:59,030 --> 03:09:02,025
- One of the reasons millions of people
find you so interesting to watch is

2664
03:09:02,108 --> 03:09:02,942
that you're

2665
03:09:03,810 --> 03:09:10,810
constantly growing. First, you were
a great fighter. Now you're becoming a

2666
03:09:11,110 --> 03:09:15,150
leader. Your wisdom just keeps increasing.

2667
03:09:16,110 --> 03:09:20,030
You're evolving as a person, but still
the core values remain. It's good to

2668
03:09:20,130 --> 03:09:21,430
see, inspiring for people.

2669
03:09:22,270 --> 03:09:26,167
Money and fame haven't changed you.
You're just growing as a human

2670
03:09:26,250 --> 03:09:27,830
being, as you always have.

2671
03:09:28,350 --> 03:09:32,147
- I hope it's in the right direction. It's
just, the thing is people only see the

2672
03:09:32,230 --> 03:09:35,070
good. They don't see the bad.

2673
03:09:35,470 --> 03:09:39,650
And we all have the good side
and the bad side. Everyone, sadly.

2674
03:09:41,210 --> 03:09:43,410
And especially when it
comes to celebrities,

2675
03:09:44,430 --> 03:09:47,410
we only show the best side of ourselves.

2676
03:09:48,410 --> 03:09:51,910
Even when you post photos,
you only post the good ones,

2677
03:09:52,490 --> 03:09:57,570
the pictures where you look
your best. So I hope that

2678
03:09:58,950 --> 03:10:05,950
the way people see me, as you
pointed out, is the way I really am,

2679
03:10:07,790 --> 03:10:11,487
because it's difficult to judge
yourself objectively. You're always

2680
03:10:11,570 --> 03:10:15,410
biased when it comes to yourself.
That's how it is. We tend to think highly

2681
03:10:15,510 --> 03:10:18,990
of ourselves, right? You can't
really see yourself objectively.

2682
03:10:20,610 --> 03:10:24,570
We hide our flaws and put
our best qualities on display.

2683
03:10:25,550 --> 03:10:30,150
Sometimes people even start believing
in a fake version of themselves.

2684
03:10:33,270 --> 03:10:36,907
For me, I try to stay
on the honest path throughout my

2685
03:10:36,990 --> 03:10:42,130
life to remain true to who
I really am and to show

2686
03:10:43,550 --> 03:10:47,490
my true self to people.
Maybe not everyone agrees with my

2687
03:10:47,590 --> 03:10:51,970
behavior, my opinions,
my worldview, or my attitudes toward,

2688
03:10:53,810 --> 03:10:58,390
towards sports, religion, and other
things. Not everyone shares my views.

2689
03:10:59,370 --> 03:11:02,770
Not everyone is a fan of mine.
There are people who,

2690
03:11:04,830 --> 03:11:09,490
let's say, see me very
differently. So I'm just...

2691
03:11:12,290 --> 03:11:16,690
I've tried, I continue to try
to be who I am. That's all.

2692
03:11:18,690 --> 03:11:23,090
And I hope that my ending
will be a good one, too.

2693
03:11:24,350 --> 03:11:27,460
Well, you know, at least that's my hope.

2694
03:11:28,330 --> 03:11:32,107
- You've stayed the same, but you've
also grown. I mean, today you even

2695
03:11:32,190 --> 03:11:38,370
managed to say something nice about Barça.
So see, that's progress. Yeah. Well done.

2696
03:11:39,210 --> 03:11:42,075
- Come on, without Barcelona,
there wouldn't be Real Madrid.

2697
03:11:42,158 --> 03:11:43,147
If the Spanish league

2698
03:11:43,230 --> 03:11:47,087
didn't have either Real Madrid or
Barcelona, it just wouldn't be the same.

2699
03:11:47,170 --> 03:11:50,967
They've been competing against each other
for how many years? One hundred twenty.

2700
03:11:51,050 --> 03:11:53,971
It's hard to imagine Barcelona
and Real Madrid without each other,

2701
03:11:54,054 --> 03:11:56,790
and so is the Spanish
league without that rivalry.

2702
03:11:57,030 --> 03:12:00,967
It's impossible to imagine. So yeah,
we have to give you some credit, but Real

2703
03:12:01,050 --> 03:12:05,830
Madrid is the royal club.
Come on. It's the best. You know?

2704
03:12:06,410 --> 03:12:10,029
- And thanks to both of them, we've been
able to enjoy truly incredible football

2705
03:12:10,112 --> 03:12:12,362
for so many years.
- For so many years, yeah.

2706
03:12:12,990 --> 03:12:17,540
- Um, Khabib, brother, I don't
even have the words to explain

2707
03:12:18,850 --> 03:12:22,727
how honored I am that you're here talking
with me today and showing me so much

2708
03:12:22,810 --> 03:12:23,643
warmth.

2709
03:12:24,800 --> 03:12:27,761
There's no way to fully express what
you mean to millions of your fans around

2710
03:12:27,845 --> 03:12:30,558
the world, including me.
Thank you so much for everything.

2711
03:12:30,641 --> 03:12:32,127
Thank you for this conversation.

2712
03:12:32,210 --> 03:12:34,110
- Thank you. Thank you very much, Lex.

2713
03:12:35,110 --> 03:12:38,820
- Thank you for listening to this
conversation with Khabib Nurmagomedov.

2714
03:12:38,903 --> 03:12:39,737
And again,

2715
03:12:40,370 --> 03:12:47,270
thank you for everything. I love you all.
Goodbye, my friends. See you next time.