WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.957 You do all your prompting on Ultrafast? 00:00:02.040 --> 00:00:04.557 >> I do. >> That's sick. >> Yeah. 00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:07.477 >> That's crazy. >> You know, seven people's thoughts can 00:00:07.560 --> 00:00:11.197 working together create something new that kind of existed in all of our heads 00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:15.240 to some degree, but was like an emergent thing. 00:00:21.610 --> 00:00:23.630 >> [music] 00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:29.477 >> Hey, this is Dan Shipper. You might be wondering what happened to AI and I. 00:00:29.560 --> 00:00:33.277 This is the same show. We are just rebranding it to the Every Podcast. I'm 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:35.757 really excited for our first episode with Sam Altman. 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:37.797 Here it is. >> Sam, welcome to the show. 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:40.277 >> Thanks for having me. >> Psyched to have you here. So, we're here 00:00:40.360 --> 00:00:45.117 at DevDay. I think if you had told me 4 years ago that the coding models were at 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.917 this level of capability, I would have been like, "Wow, I don't know if there 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:50.597 would be a lot of developers at DevDay." 00:00:50.680 --> 00:00:53.957 But, there's more developers than ever, it seems like, and more work to do than 00:00:54.040 --> 00:00:58.917 ever. So, what has the like riding the increasing capabilities of coding models 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.557 and seeing the impact on engineering taught you about the future of 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.197 engineering and uh more broadly like the future of work with AI? 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:09.517 >> I think people just want so much more stuff. People's expectations are so 00:01:09.600 --> 00:01:13.917 high. Uh and I think that's a wonderful thing. I think this is why we'll all 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:18.117 have this incredible future in front of us to explore. But, developers they've 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:21.117 never been able to do more, but there's never been a higher bar either. And I 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.437 think that's great. I think that's like a nice thing about society. 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:24.997 >> Is that something that surprised you? 00:01:25.080 --> 00:01:26.757 Did you expect that to happen? 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.757 >> I think I was never like as doomy about the job stuff as other 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:32.957 people, but it still has surprised me 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:36.637 somewhat on the upside of just how much 00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:41.357 latent demand existed in the world. And how And also how much like 00:01:41.440 --> 00:01:44.757 people have remained the center of everything that is happening with AI. 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.997 >> Do you think there's a a limit to that, or do you think that translates pretty 00:01:48.080 --> 00:01:50.157 cleanly to other areas of work? 00:01:50.240 --> 00:01:53.717 >> I think there will be some areas of work where there's actually not much 00:01:53.800 --> 00:01:55.317 creativity required, and we don't care 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.557 about the person doing it. And many of 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:01.157 those tasks or jobs will be done by AI. 00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:03.917 But I think there's so much other stuff people want in the world. There's going 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.997 to be no shortage of new things to go to go do. I think that's been one of the 00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:11.357 lessons of recent time. >> Why do you think it's so human-centered 00:02:11.440 --> 00:02:14.357 even though we talk a lot about automation? 00:02:14.440 --> 00:02:17.677 >> I mean, what one observation is we just we don't care that much about what the 00:02:17.760 --> 00:02:21.877 machines do. And in some sense we never have. 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.437 And we're just like we're obsessed with other people. We want to know about the 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.957 person behind the art or the person behind the company or the idea or the 00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:33.197 product. And I think this is like a wonderful positive surprise. 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.037 That we probably should have all known before. 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:38.837 >> I agree. It's I've been thinking like if an agent solves an obvious Stokes in a 00:02:38.920 --> 00:02:42.357 data center but no one finds out, did it really solve it, you know? 00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:44.437 >> [laughter] >> I think that was like a great example 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:48.677 where, you know, 10,000 agents worked super hard for 4 days in perfect 00:02:48.760 --> 00:02:52.797 coordination with each other and did this amazing thing. And almost none of 00:02:52.880 --> 00:02:57.277 the public reaction was about that actually, the problem being solved. 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:59.397 A lot of talk about the interpretation. 00:02:59.480 --> 00:03:02.957 A lot of talk about like the people involved in it in different ways. But, 00:03:03.040 --> 00:03:04.597 you know, that was like a that was a good thing. 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.677 >> Yeah. So, it's DevDay. You launched by my 00:03:07.760 --> 00:03:10.077 count 22 new things today, 00:03:10.160 --> 00:03:12.597 uh which I've been at all four DevDays. 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:16.397 And uh I think last year was like nine and the the year before that was like 00:03:16.480 --> 00:03:19.757 four or five. So, it's a lot more than usual. 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:23.997 >> Just wait for next year. >> Okay. [laughter] I'm tired. I'm tired. 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:25.717 >> Um we cut a bunch of things that we were 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:27.117 going to launch today just cuz you have 00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:30.197 to like fit it in 50 minutes. Uh but 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:35.197 you know, like we try to practice what we preach. And if we are saying these 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.437 tools can make people much more productive and build more and that 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:39.277 people want more stuff, like 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:41.197 we better build more ourselves. 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.837 >> What are the new kind of bottlenecks and 00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:49.917 best practices for doing that? Cuz I I can see for myself and and I assume 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.117 you guys are seeing this too. Like now that you can build everything, you're 00:03:53.200 --> 00:03:56.877 like what what should we build and and how do we make it all coherent? How do 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:00.757 you think about that? >> Moving to 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:04.437 this world of sort of persistent intelligence, active intelligence, 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:06.997 whatever people want to call it. This idea that you're going to have these 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:11.597 agents that are running in the background 24/7, connected to 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:15.357 your systems, doing stuff proactively for you. This is clearly a direction 00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:19.797 that feels important to explore. I think we're going to see amazing stuff happen 00:04:19.880 --> 00:04:21.437 there. Another thing we really wanted to 00:04:21.520 --> 00:04:24.317 do is there's just there are now so many 00:04:24.400 --> 00:04:26.917 ideas that are capable of being built. 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.597 And what we are missing is the creative spirit 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:32.637 to figure them out and build them. 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:37.477 So we wanted to really open up our ecosystem, let people build apps in 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:41.077 ChatGPT and like the same way that we get to do them, let people bring their 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:45.997 subscription wherever they'd like, have the marketplace, and and really try to 00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:49.997 let people get connected to all the stuff that people will now be able to build. 00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:52.157 >> Yeah, I mean I I just looking at all the 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:56.237 platform features that you launched and the way that you talk about platforms, 00:04:56.320 --> 00:04:59.717 it reminds me a lot of the way that Bill Gates used to talk about Windows as a 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:04.077 platform where you create more value than you capture. What have you learned, 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:07.597 you know, you said this in your keynote and I've observed it as well. There's at 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:10.557 the end of the day there's always a an app store. You you've been taking swings 00:05:10.640 --> 00:05:14.357 at app stores for a while. What have you learned about building a platform and 00:05:14.440 --> 00:05:17.077 what do you think makes this one different? 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.597 >> I I mean that we we clearly have not yet figured out the app store equivalent, 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:23.917 but we have figured out how to build a platform that a lot of people are 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:26.877 building incredible value on top of. I I 00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:29.517 think there are really kind of two 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:34.197 schools of thought among people building AI model companies. There are 00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:37.557 people that believe or hope that there's only going to be 00:05:37.640 --> 00:05:41.957 one company in the world. And then there are people like us that believe we are 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:44.117 going to see a renaissance in the number 00:05:44.200 --> 00:05:47.357 of companies and just an absolute 00:05:47.440 --> 00:05:49.477 lowering of the bar to 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:54.437 people, one-person companies, small-team companies creating incredible new 00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:58.597 products and services. And we want to go as hard as we can with the platform to 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.477 enable people to do that. And although I think we haven't figured out the App 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:05.357 Store yet, that's totally fair. I think we have figured out how to help like 00:06:05.440 --> 00:06:07.557 millions of people build and create 00:06:07.640 --> 00:06:09.597 significant new products and companies. 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:14.397 >> If you had to narrow in you said you talked at the keynote about an 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.677 industrial revolution versus renaissance which you just which you just mentioned 00:06:17.760 --> 00:06:19.837 now. If you had to narrow in on the key 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:22.757 things that make the difference between 00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:26.997 those two worlds and maybe OpenAI's part in it, but maybe even the broader 00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:29.717 ecosystem, what do you think those things are? 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.557 >> One take on this would be that the renaissance was fundamentally centered 00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:37.357 around people and the industrial revolution was fundamentally 00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:39.917 centered around machines. There were a lot of good things about 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.117 the industrial revolution. It had a you know, hugely positive impact on the 00:06:43.200 --> 00:06:48.237 world in in many ways. But I think a lot of people did not have a 00:06:48.320 --> 00:06:49.877 purely positive personal impact from 00:06:49.960 --> 00:06:53.997 that. And this feeling that um 00:06:54.080 --> 00:06:58.317 people had these like rich lives and did all these things. And yeah, of course 00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:00.797 they like struggled and wanted more and better stuff. And that's the part the 00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:04.277 industrial revolution did deliver in some ways. But they were kind of turned 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:09.677 into in many cases this like cog in a machine doing some extremely specialized 00:07:09.760 --> 00:07:12.997 thing and kind of like disconnected from a lot of the parts that made life good. 00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:17.197 I get sad to hear people talk about like oh, AI is going to automate everything. 00:07:17.280 --> 00:07:18.597 There's going to be no role for humans. 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:20.597 We're going to be like house cats and 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:25.717 the AI will decide how to reward us and tell us what to do. And um 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:27.477 I have heard people say that. >> [laughter] 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.117 >> Um that's certainly not what we think. 00:07:30.200 --> 00:07:32.677 Um what I am hopeful for is that this is 00:07:32.760 --> 00:07:35.597 just a huge new wave of scientific 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:38.437 discovery, art, company formation, like 00:07:38.520 --> 00:07:39.997 everybody that wants to start a new 00:07:40.080 --> 00:07:43.957 thing. Um and that people do get the 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.597 benefits of all of the economic growth and the new stuff happening here. 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.797 But also people get to back in control their lives and ability 00:07:51.880 --> 00:07:54.797 to kind of do the things they want and spend their time the way they want. 00:07:54.880 --> 00:07:57.677 >> One of the things that strikes me about the Renaissance versus the Industrial 00:07:57.760 --> 00:08:01.317 Revolution is in the Renaissance you have a sort of 00:08:01.400 --> 00:08:05.597 different understanding of what it means to be a person and like an individual 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:08.357 uh, as opposed >> Yeah. >> as opposed to sort of the cog in the 00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:10.797 machine. Do you feel like you're 00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:13.477 starting to see any difference in how we 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:18.757 think of ourselves as human that's comparable to the way that we changed 00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:20.677 how we think of ourselves during the Renaissance? 00:08:20.760 --> 00:08:22.997 >> I mean so much happened during the Renaissance. It's hard to say there's 00:08:23.080 --> 00:08:25.317 like this one thing. But but but definitely a big part of it was about 00:08:25.400 --> 00:08:29.397 people like sort of reconnecting to a lot of things that had 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:34.197 in the in the distant past. And you do hear and then and then also 00:08:34.280 --> 00:08:37.837 like this kind of combination of that with this crazy futurism and discovery 00:08:37.920 --> 00:08:41.957 of science and engineering and just sort of this this feeling that the human 00:08:42.040 --> 00:08:45.437 potential had massively expanded. And you do hear people talk about both of 00:08:45.520 --> 00:08:49.477 those things simultaneously with AI, which is kind of how I got interested in 00:08:49.560 --> 00:08:53.397 this as an analogy in the first place. I mean this is like a very trivial example 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:58.037 relative to what is going to be possible or already is possible. 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.837 But the Dots, the new thing we launched 00:09:00.920 --> 00:09:06.477 today, is the first thing that has given me back control of my mornings and like 00:09:06.560 --> 00:09:09.117 my mental space in the mornings. I used to love the early mornings. It was my 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:12.517 favorite time of the day to work. It's like maximum creativity. That's when I 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:15.597 would like do the really deep complicated project of the day. 00:09:15.680 --> 00:09:19.597 And then now I like run this like big company and something is going wrong all 00:09:19.680 --> 00:09:23.677 the time and overnight a lot of stuff happens. And if I don't check my phone 00:09:23.760 --> 00:09:26.637 right away then you know, sometimes it was fine and 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:29.597 sometimes there was like a real disaster that if I ignored for an hour just got 00:09:29.680 --> 00:09:34.437 much worse. The problem had been that as I checked my phone, I polluted my brain 00:09:34.520 --> 00:09:35.637 with all these other things and I lost 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.237 the deep work period. But now I trust my 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.757 dot to go have good judgment about what I need to 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.117 think about and I'll think about if there's something very urgent, otherwise 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:50.277 handle things for me. And I get this space for kind of like creativity or to 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:54.477 just hang out with my kids uh back and that has been like, you know, it sounds 00:09:54.560 --> 00:09:56.677 small but like a significant improvement to my life. 00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:00.157 >> That's what I was going to ask is so it look it seems like it's deflecting a lot 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:04.157 of things that you might have had to deal with immediately that you can just 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:07.357 like leave for later cuz you're confident you get the thing you need 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:08.437 when when you check it in the morning. 00:10:08.520 --> 00:10:13.237 >> Yeah. I mean two two things that happened to today about that. Um 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:17.597 during the keynote we had like a big seven production. This is the risk of live 00:10:17.680 --> 00:10:20.197 demos and trying to deploy many new features at once. 00:10:20.280 --> 00:10:22.997 >> I was like curling. I was >> Um >> [laughter] 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:25.557 >> so so that happened. Uh 00:10:25.640 --> 00:10:28.357 Thibault got a message from his dot 5 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:32.757 minutes before the demo saying, "Just to let you know, um 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.997 there's I see that you're in the dev day. You know, I know you were working 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.797 on it. I know what the demo is cuz I was able to like look at the presentation 00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:43.197 um in space or whatever and there, you know, this sub is probably going to make 00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:46.197 the demo not work. Would you like me to try to fix it? There's like a few 00:10:46.280 --> 00:10:49.557 minutes to go." And now it couldn't fix 00:10:49.640 --> 00:10:54.037 it yet but like maybe the next version will be able to go fix that in prod. And 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:57.437 like think about that whole like all the stuff that had to come 00:10:57.520 --> 00:11:00.957 together to make that work. Um just right now before I came here, I've been 00:11:01.040 --> 00:11:03.317 like back-to-back stuff all day. 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:06.077 Very very behind on all of my normal stuff. 00:11:06.160 --> 00:11:09.757 Um my dot just before I had walked into the last 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:14.157 thing said, "You have one little break between now and this thing you're going 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.077 to go to with Dan. You have to pay attention to this one thing." I never 00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:20.637 would have found that otherwise and like it would have been a big mess. And just 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.357 the fact that I like don't have to worry about that feels feels super different. 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:26.277 >> What's your dot's name? >> Dotty. 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.077 >> Dotty. >> I tried I had it Alfred earlier. 00:11:29.160 --> 00:11:31.717 And then like many people are calling it Dotty for now but I'm trying to like 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:32.997 think of a great name. >> yeah. 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:35.677 >> Mine's name is Boo. >> That's a good one. 00:11:35.760 --> 00:11:37.717 >> a good one. Um >> What do you think so far? I know it's 00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:38.797 like super early and still rough. 00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:43.837 >> I I like it. It has become the default way that I use chat, which I think is a 00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:45.837 very promising thing. >> Me, too. 00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:49.637 >> And I I shared with you like I think you know, I'm I'm in the beta, so I was in 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:53.517 the the early period, so I I think it's it you know, it has limits. It's like 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.077 has been a little bit buggy for me, so >> Yeah. 00:11:56.160 --> 00:11:57.517 >> there's a lot of different surfaces that 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:00.717 it can be used on like mobile and it has its own cloud computer and like all that 00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:03.957 kind of stuff and I think those kinds of things getting that cleaned up is a big 00:12:04.040 --> 00:12:06.837 deal, but yeah. >> That that I think this is the kind of 00:12:06.920 --> 00:12:10.997 thing where it's going to get like better rapidly each week from here, but it's 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:13.757 going to definitely take some time to smooth it all out. 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.357 >> I had a similar example where I was trying to reschedule a flight and it was 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.317 like, "Hey, you have a meeting during this flight that you're rescheduling." 00:12:20.400 --> 00:12:23.197 but it wasn't on my calendar. It had just like read it in Slack. 00:12:23.280 --> 00:12:24.797 >> Yeah. >> And then it was like, yeah. 00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:29.277 >> That that thing about the ability to bring context together from across your 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.757 entire life and like really do things in ways that would be hard even for an 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.797 attentive person to get right has been super impressive. That's been one of the 00:12:36.880 --> 00:12:38.197 things I've found most useful about it. 00:12:38.280 --> 00:12:42.437 >> What had to happen from a research perspective to make this possible? 00:12:42.520 --> 00:12:45.677 >> This is like a very complicated system with a lot of stuff, but maybe most 00:12:45.760 --> 00:12:49.837 important was Astra. We needed like a You needed a smart enough model. And 00:12:49.920 --> 00:12:52.797 then there were a lot of other things you had to build, too, but but getting 00:12:52.880 --> 00:12:56.397 the model over the intelligence bar was a key part. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.517 >> Mhm. You told me that there's like there've been a couple times, not just 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:04.237 for like scheduling or or or things that are urgent like uh filtering, but 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.637 there've been a couple times where it's helped you see something or make a 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.357 decision with an AI that you could not have. You said you couldn't have hired 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:14.957 someone to do that. Like it just be too complicated. Do you have any specific 00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:18.317 examples you can share? >> There was one like new feature that I 00:13:18.400 --> 00:13:22.757 was kind of excited about and it would have been very hard to explain it 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.757 to people in enough detail to get it built. Um and even then there were like 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.557 a lot of ways to do it and I wouldn't have been confident in which one. And I 00:13:29.640 --> 00:13:34.237 just like I would just like constantly jot notes as I thought of something or 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:36.197 as I was like on a walk or whatever to 00:13:36.280 --> 00:13:41.597 my dot. And then the dot went off and built like five or six versions. I was 00:13:41.680 --> 00:13:44.157 able to get feedback. I was able to iterate. And it was just like whenever I 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:49.557 had a spare moment or had an idea and that kind of like the ability to just like 00:13:49.640 --> 00:13:53.237 dump that in raw form, the ability to like get and give pretty continuous 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:57.277 feedback on it was very cool. And then there's like many categories like that 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.077 where like uh an idea that would be 00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:04.317 you'd be so unsure about or it would be too much effort for you or for someone 00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:07.357 else to build. You can actually just kind of like 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.397 continually iterate on and and it's it's 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:14.757 like it's pretty cool to go to sleep and like just leave a long voice note as 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.077 you're kind of drifting off with a bunch of thoughts 00:14:17.160 --> 00:14:19.917 and like wake up in the morning not only is the thing built, but it like went off 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.477 and did like the next seven steps. It's the best. And it's like all right, this 00:14:23.560 --> 00:14:27.997 is like a very cool way to express stuff. And then and then also like there 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.997 there's a set of tasks that I would normally give up on or that I would have 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:35.677 given up on before. There was a thing that I was sure I had seen in Slack. 00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:39.557 And Slack search is obviously terrible, so I mostly use Codex to search it. And 00:14:39.640 --> 00:14:42.077 I had been searching for this thing cuz I wanted to find it again. I wanted to 00:14:42.160 --> 00:14:47.237 reference it. And I spent like a good 10 or 20 minutes trying to search with 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:50.277 Codex and find this and I kept trying different things and didn't find it. And 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.637 I was like, man, like maybe I dreamed it 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:57.877 and this didn't really happen because Codex doesn't usually fail. 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:02.837 And I kind of gave up on it. And then the next day um 00:15:02.920 --> 00:15:06.077 my dot was like, hey, I noticed you were trying to do this thing 00:15:06.160 --> 00:15:09.197 and you didn't find it, but I like kept thinking about it overnight and I found 00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:13.157 it for you. >> Wow. >> And I was like, what? And it was a screenshot. 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.957 >> Mhm. >> I had forgotten in my head it was a screenshot not text in Slack. And it 00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:19.357 just like sat there very patiently looking for something to do to be 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:23.997 helpful to me and like looked at every image wrecked every screenshot and found 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:27.797 the thing. And I was like that's really that's really >> have given up on that. 00:15:27.880 --> 00:15:31.877 >> I think there's a you're we're constantly feeling that 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:34.877 there's way too much to read in Slack on email and all that kind of stuff and 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.797 it's it's perfect for that amount of context to just like get you the right 00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:42.797 thing at the right time. >> People have talked about the need to have an agent 00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:47.037 deal with the just onslaught of the internet and all of the various things 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.717 trying to like hack our attention and distract us and whatever and I have 00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:52.637 definitely learned in the few weeks that 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.877 I've been using dots that 00:15:55.960 --> 00:16:00.157 although technology is very wonderful in many ways, the kind of like crazy 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:02.317 attention hacking of social media and 00:16:02.400 --> 00:16:04.717 phones and notifications had gotten way 00:16:04.800 --> 00:16:07.997 worse than I realized for me personally. 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:10.357 >> You hear a lot about AI tools on this 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:15.197 show, but the one that's truly at the center of your work is your CRM. 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Try Attio for free at 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.557 attio.com/every. 00:16:55.640 --> 00:16:59.597 That's Attio, a t t i o.com/every. 00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:01.797 And now, back to the episode. 00:17:01.880 --> 00:17:04.477 >> Tell me about Space. It's it's a big bet 00:17:04.560 --> 00:17:08.597 to do three like office suite type tools in one launch. 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:10.917 >> We didn't set out wanting to do this. 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:13.757 And then we realized, and I'm sure 00:17:13.840 --> 00:17:15.517 you've realized your own version of this 00:17:15.600 --> 00:17:18.757 too, that software was really not 00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:22.757 designed on the whole for collaborating with AI. 00:17:22.840 --> 00:17:25.077 And you can use it yourself or you can 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:28.837 have AI use it on your behalf, but to 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.157 really collaborate closely, especially when it's multiple people and multiple 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.917 people's AIs all working together, like a lot of the current abstractions 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.077 we have break down. So, this is definitely an ambitious bet, but uh 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.077 but I think that the space of human AI collaboration is really important to 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.317 explore. >> How are you working with it? Like are 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:51.037 you reviewing docs in space or are you 00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:53.357 making docs and do you have expectations 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.117 for how much of it you're typing versus 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.837 how much of it your dot is doing for you and also with the with the docs that you 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.157 get? Like are you are you viewing it from that perspective, too? 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.357 >> If there's like a new idea, um I like writing the old-fashioned way 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:12.397 cuz it helps me like think about it. So, I still do that and then maybe have my 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.637 dot or other people's dot like 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:19.637 do the follow-ups, but one of the things that I have found most amazing about it 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:22.117 and I don't think we have a word for this yet, but the for lack of a better 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.237 word, these like live documents, um creating a doc that is going to 00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:28.837 automatically update as people interact 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:30.717 or as other things change in the world 00:18:30.800 --> 00:18:33.597 and something that like many of our dots 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:38.197 can work with together not only to like share information, but but actually 00:18:38.280 --> 00:18:41.877 like, you know, seven people's dots can working together create something new 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.357 that kind of existed in all of our heads to some degree, but it was like an 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.437 emergent thing. That's been very fun as we think about like new features to explore. 00:18:49.520 --> 00:18:53.197 >> Is there a specific live doc that has been most useful for you? 00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:56.477 >> I have switched like the dashboard, I think everybody's probably got like a 00:18:56.560 --> 00:18:59.797 dashboard that they look at every day for how the company's doing in the way 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.357 they care about and you know, I used to share one with everybody else or many 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:08.117 other people and I now have one that is kind of like 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.597 a changing summary of the business just for me 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.957 based off of like the evolving things that I'm caring about or not caring 00:19:16.040 --> 00:19:19.397 about. Like looks at all my Slack messages, makes me a new thing, like 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:22.837 constantly updates it, and it's like, "Oh, this just feels like a living document." 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:25.157 >> That's sick. What What do you care about now? 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:29.157 >> A lot on my mind recently is just how we're thinking about the safety 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:32.797 alignment and security challenge in front of us. Um 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.317 But, you know, 6 months ago, I probably cared more about revenue and growth and 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.957 metrics of this sort of traditional part of the business. So, watching that 00:19:40.040 --> 00:19:43.517 evolve. I I've actually been thinking about how I can like cuz I'd be very 00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:47.997 curious to see what my dot thinks I care about each day the most over time. And 00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:51.237 we don't currently have a good way to visualize that. I have not been able to 00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:55.157 get my dot to figure out a cool way to do that. And I would love to see that 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.677 over the course of years. >> I think that's really cool. I've been 00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:01.397 wanting one that just like it's a live dashboard of my mood. 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:04.557 Uh because I I have my dot like when I get a Slack 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.157 message and I'm like, I don't know if I want to look at this Slack message, I 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.237 have my dot go look at it, and then I'm like, "Should I look at this an hour 00:20:10.320 --> 00:20:12.757 later?" And it's like, "You should look later." 00:20:12.840 --> 00:20:16.317 Um and I kind of want like a live thing of my mood, so it knows 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:18.227 Yeah, yeah. I I want that, too. 00:20:18.310 --> 00:20:22.517 >> [laughter] >> Um very cool. Tell me about Decisions API. 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:24.677 I feel like the Decisions API is 00:20:24.760 --> 00:20:29.877 one of the sneaky most important things today because Jev is this new hot thing 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.757 that has honestly changed how we think about building things internally. Is 00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:37.517 Decisions API Did you start that from Jev, or is has it been in the works for 00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:39.237 a while? How do you think about it? 00:20:39.320 --> 00:20:44.477 >> Diogo uh used to work at OpenAI, and um Diogo's awesome, and he was talking 00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:47.077 about this class of ideas for a long time. 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:52.637 Um and we had been working on 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.317 trying to figure out how to make it work. We We like the number one request 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.757 of Luna, and this is like an example of how people always want like more 00:20:59.840 --> 00:21:02.797 cheaper, faster, better. But, the number one request with Luna, even though 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.397 people love that model, was I want it to be even cheaper and even faster. 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.277 And so, we have been thinking about how we could push it further in that direction. 00:21:11.360 --> 00:21:15.677 Um definitely seeing the response to Jev made us 00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:17.557 more excited to prioritize things in 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.557 that direction. Um but and like Diogo 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:25.037 has inspired me for a long time on thinking about this. Um but I think you 00:21:25.120 --> 00:21:29.357 will see us try to push you know, in different ways in the 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:31.757 spirit of make 00:21:31.840 --> 00:21:36.557 the technology super fast and super low cost for common use cases. 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:40.877 >> How do you think about, you know, if something like Jev comes out, it's a 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.317 kind of new type of model, and then OpenAI can can add like a decisions API? 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:47.717 How do you think about how that changes 00:21:47.800 --> 00:21:50.637 the race between new labs and labs and 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:54.797 and what what OpenAI can cover and what a new lab can focus on? 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:58.157 >> As I understand the approach of Jev, it's pretty different, and I don't think 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:02.197 we can go I don't well, maybe we could go do something from scratch like that, 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:03.757 but I think we have other things to go 00:22:03.840 --> 00:22:06.517 do. You know, like we want to make 00:22:06.600 --> 00:22:11.117 the best, cheapest, fastest, most capable model at every point on the 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.117 Pareto curve of cost and speed and modality, but I think there will be new 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.237 approaches, new architectures, new technologies that are things we just 00:22:18.320 --> 00:22:22.397 can't cover all of. But for the the kind of main line workhorse, like we will try 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:26.437 to deliver that. >> So I've been like in your ear a lot 00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:29.237 about Codex native apps for a little while now. 00:22:29.320 --> 00:22:32.077 >> did it. >> And you finally did it. I'm psyched. Um 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:36.997 so plugin extensions, um yeah, I I and also being able to bring 00:22:37.080 --> 00:22:40.557 your tokens from your ChatGPT subscription to an app developer, like 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.677 it changes the equation for someone like me where 00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:47.637 normally you're you're thinking about, okay, how much AI can I let my users use 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:50.517 so that doesn't bankrupt me? And then you're like, can I use should I use uh 00:22:50.600 --> 00:22:53.557 lower-priced models? And then the experience is worse, but if someone can 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:55.717 bring their subscription, I'm like, great, you can use whatever model you 00:22:55.800 --> 00:22:58.877 want under your subscription. What are you most excited about for the kinds of 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.757 applications and products that can be built at the application layer in this 00:23:02.840 --> 00:23:04.997 new world. >> I mean, I'm most excited for the ones 00:23:05.080 --> 00:23:08.917 that we haven't thought of. Like there's many reasons that we wanted to do this, 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:13.037 but one of the biggest is and why we do 00:23:13.120 --> 00:23:15.517 this big DevDay thing is just that this 00:23:15.600 --> 00:23:18.517 this very deep belief that there are way 00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:23.317 more good ideas outside of our building than inside. And I don't know what I'm 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:25.517 going to love the most as like a ChatGPT 00:23:25.600 --> 00:23:28.877 native app a plugin extension, but I am 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:32.717 very confident that there will be things that I really do love that I cannot 00:23:32.800 --> 00:23:35.597 imagine today and that no one at OpenAI really could imagine with conviction 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:38.877 today. And that's why I mean, that's one of the reasons why 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:43.957 this is so important to do. Like we we want to find a way to get that creative 00:23:44.040 --> 00:23:47.477 spirit into people's hands and we want to find a way to help builders connect 00:23:47.560 --> 00:23:50.917 with people who are going to find the technology useful. In terms of bringing 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.357 your ChatGPT subscription with you everywhere, like we just want that 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:57.677 ourselves. There's all this great stuff that people are building. There's all 00:23:57.760 --> 00:23:58.917 these new apps. We all we want to try 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.677 them. Um and I like I hate having to 00:24:02.760 --> 00:24:06.037 sign up for 100 subscriptions. And also like when I try something I'm like, 00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:09.557 "Hey, I you know, like I'd like to be able to use this with like full juice 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:14.037 AI." Um so we we want to make it just super easy for people to take it with 00:24:14.120 --> 00:24:18.557 them and it's your subscription like it's you should get to use wherever you want. 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.517 >> Do you think anyone at the app layer is doing this well today? 00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:24.837 >> Like building interesting apps? Well, not with the new stuff just because it's 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.397 brand new, but but yes, I mean, I think there's an unbelievable 00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:32.117 for all of the fear people had a couple of years ago about, "Man, AI model 00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:34.837 companies are just going to eat everything." There's an unbelievable 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.277 amount of significant new companies, great new 00:24:38.360 --> 00:24:42.477 products building this stuff all of the time. I I've never seen startups get as 00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:46.037 successful as quickly. >> Does that change, you know, you you were 00:24:46.120 --> 00:24:50.197 part of Y Combinator before OpenAI, does that change how you think about when 00:24:50.280 --> 00:24:52.797 people ask you about, "How do I start a startup?" or "How do I think about how 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:54.037 to grow?" like all that kind of stuff? 00:24:54.120 --> 00:24:58.197 >> I would love to be a startup investor again. Um I mean, cuz like oh man, what 00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:02.157 a fun time. Like, I that the watching what people are doing right now, getting 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.517 to spend time with some of these founders, which I don't get nearly as 00:25:04.600 --> 00:25:08.717 much as I like, it is it is just a golden age. 00:25:08.800 --> 00:25:10.877 >> What are you looking for? I mean, obviously besides the founder 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.437 themselves, like what are you looking for in the shape of things that you'd be 00:25:13.520 --> 00:25:15.597 like, oh man, I want to invest in that. 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.637 >> Mhm. I was always a very founder-driven 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.837 investor. Like, I I I have my pet projects like anybody else, but my my 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.957 whole MO as an investor was like, find the absolute best founders I can that 00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:29.517 are working on the ambitious projects and be willing to take a lot of risk 00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:32.197 with them. >> Yeah, I I feel like there's always that 00:25:32.280 --> 00:25:36.917 narrative of the net labs are going to eat everything and Dev Days like the the 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.957 tweet that always works is like, OpenAI just killed X startup or whatever. 00:25:41.040 --> 00:25:44.117 >> The tweet works because people like doomerism, but it never actually 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:47.157 happens. [laughter] >> Yeah, why is that? Why does it never happen? 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:51.317 >> Yeah. >> Well, A, I think we have a lot of conviction that 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.197 empowering builders and not just trying to be like the one giant evil mega corp 00:25:55.280 --> 00:26:00.597 is important. So, I I think we took a lot of steps today that no other AI lab 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.717 would do about saying we're going to give you all of the same tools we use. 00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:08.917 We've always pushed the frontier on on model access. And so, I think we're like 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.997 uniquely committed in the industry to doing this. And we we really do love 00:26:12.080 --> 00:26:15.837 developers and I think that's partly I just also love startups and that's where 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.517 I came from. But, I also think speaking of like a new 00:26:18.600 --> 00:26:21.797 renaissance, it's just there is so much to explore. 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.077 People are going to do such incredible stuff. 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:27.917 We are going to have such a tiny fraction of that vision ourselves 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:29.997 that, you know, like the world has a 00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:34.997 fundamentally new enabler. This is like I mean, I don't even know what this is 00:26:35.080 --> 00:26:38.517 like fire or something. This is like a real change to what's possible. You 00:26:38.600 --> 00:26:40.837 know, maybe we like brought it down from the mountain, but we want to give it to 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.357 everybody and we want people to like do stuff with it. 00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.317 >> There's a lot of basic startup lore, like you should 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.597 always have a co-founder or, you know, even the structure of how Y Combinator 00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:56.117 does investments that is based on a previous, for example, cost structure. 00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:59.237 If you were going to start those things from scratch or think about them from 00:26:59.320 --> 00:27:00.997 scratch, like what do you think changes? 00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:04.277 >> There are a few things that are probably just like 00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:07.317 invariants. You know, you got to like make something people want. That advice 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:09.477 was good or agents want 100 years ago. 00:27:09.560 --> 00:27:14.397 >> Yeah, okay. Well, >> yes, but at least 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.157 by our understanding of the world today, like at some level people got to want 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:21.157 it. You got it. So, there's some stuff that just 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.597 hasn't changed. And then there's a lot of other things like 00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.397 how much work you can get done with one person or two people or whatever that 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.837 feels totally different. And I don't think there has been enough 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.997 re-examination of that in this sort of startup 00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:37.637 conveyor belt of Silicon Valley yet. 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.757 >> As a person who's running a gigantic company 00:27:40.840 --> 00:27:43.637 and generally probably wouldn't have time for building stuff and it now seems 00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:47.197 like you are, how does that change 00:27:47.280 --> 00:27:51.237 how you are able to lead or what you're able to do that you can like make stuff 00:27:51.320 --> 00:27:54.717 on the side? >> I mean, we are not a gigantic company, first of 00:27:54.800 --> 00:27:57.997 all. Like there's probably, I don't know, like maybe the big tech companies 00:27:58.080 --> 00:27:59.437 have like 100 times more people than we 00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:02.037 do, something like that. But, 00:28:02.120 --> 00:28:05.597 I am way I I I I really believe in if 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:09.877 you lower friction a little bit, people build way more. 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.317 And I have really felt that now with 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:15.837 dots and these like, you know, little 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.797 chunks of time I have or even a like a long chunk of time where I can like have 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:21.877 these interactive things get a lot done. 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:26.197 Uh I I I feel like I will do something that is not just like a 00:28:26.280 --> 00:28:29.357 little side project for myself like I used to do with Codex, but like I hope I 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.837 launch something to the world. Like I hope I actually make a cool new thing 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:33.997 and like get it over the threshold. 00:28:34.080 --> 00:28:37.117 >> And like does that go out on like samaltman.com or you're talking about 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.997 like a real like OpenAI product? 00:28:39.080 --> 00:28:42.117 >> Uh I meant like I would try to like build a 00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:44.477 plugin extension or something and put it out. 00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:47.167 >> That's that's >> Maybe I Maybe I'll ship a real OpenAI product. 00:28:47.250 --> 00:28:50.317 >> [laughter] >> Feels >> like all bets are off now. 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.677 And so, you know, you have to make that decision. Do I 00:28:52.760 --> 00:28:54.397 >> You know what? I will do that. I'm inspired now. 00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:56.317 >> What's Do you have >> I don't know. I want to go think about 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.277 it and I want to do something. 00:28:57.360 --> 00:29:00.037 >> I love it. I love it. But you you do have to make that decision of like you 00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:04.557 could just put a team on that. So, what do you get to What does that add that 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:07.237 instead of having to put a team on it, you can now be like, "Oh, I'm going to 00:29:07.320 --> 00:29:10.317 make a plug-in." >> Uh well, I think today was an example of 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:12.997 this. Like you talked about how the amount of stuff every dev day has gone 00:29:13.080 --> 00:29:17.637 up. Like we could not have done all of this stuff without having AI to help us. 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.597 And if this works, like next year we will 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.837 put the teams on it and I will do something and more people will do 00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:28.717 something and we'll have like a crazy amount of amazing stuff. 00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:32.797 Or just one really great thing. That'd be fine, too. But like hopefully 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.637 the total amount of like utility we put out into the world goes up. 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.237 >> Do you do all your prompting on ultrafast? 00:29:39.320 --> 00:29:42.717 >> I do. >> That's sick. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> That's crazy. 00:29:42.800 --> 00:29:44.117 >> No, I've been I've been thinking about 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.677 this. Um I I worry that in some ways 00:29:48.760 --> 00:29:52.557 we kind of get out of touch with people building on our tools and we try we've 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.317 tried to like put all these constraints on ourselves. You know, I'm like very 00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.957 aware that not everybody is going to be able to use ultrafast all the time for 00:30:00.040 --> 00:30:03.437 everything. But I have such a hard time dragging it back over. 00:30:03.520 --> 00:30:07.677 >> Given that you're like living in that future that I think, you know, all of us 00:30:07.760 --> 00:30:10.797 can experience a little taste of it, what is what is different about the 00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:13.557 ultrafast world in terms of how you can 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:15.077 use these tools? 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:18.037 >> There was an amazing talk like, I don't 00:30:18.120 --> 00:30:20.837 know, 15 20 years ago from Bret Victor 00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:25.677 about kind of the principles that he thought people like 00:30:25.760 --> 00:30:28.997 how he did his work. And one of the things I'm going to get 00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:31.677 this a little bit wrong, but it was something like creators should have an 00:30:31.760 --> 00:30:32.997 immediate connection to what they're 00:30:33.080 --> 00:30:35.637 creating. And how speed and the feedback 00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:39.237 loop was so important. And I did not 00:30:39.320 --> 00:30:41.917 realize what a difference that makes to 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:47.477 my kind of iterative thinking loop to have responses come in so quickly. But 00:30:47.560 --> 00:30:49.717 But in terms of trying to build something, trying to think through a 00:30:49.800 --> 00:30:52.797 problem, it's like a wild difference. 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:54.717 >> I know you've been thinking for a long 00:30:54.800 --> 00:30:58.237 time about AI as a democratizing force 00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:00.237 to allow to allow anyone to build stuff. 00:31:00.320 --> 00:31:04.477 And in the sort of ultra fast world or in the Astra is a more expensive model 00:31:04.560 --> 00:31:08.157 world, I know you're also thinking about that means something that people can pay 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.797 more for better intelligence. So, like like what are you What are you thinking 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:14.917 there? >> So, historically, what we have mostly 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.957 focused on and I think done a great job of is bringing down the like price of 00:31:19.040 --> 00:31:23.237 IQ. And we have made hugely more capable models 00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:27.557 that get dramatically dramatically cheaper every few months or every year. 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.037 Now, there's this new vector that is clearly going to be very important of 00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:34.877 speed. And we are putting the investments in place. Like our own chip 00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:39.477 is going to be an incredible contributor to letting us get very fast inference in 00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:43.557 the hands of everybody to say nothing of what the models will do to improve 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:47.077 research and our our inference stack and everything else. 00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:50.877 And I think we now realize that we've got to go invest in the democratization 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.797 of this like we have for model intelligence. 00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:59.997 >> So, when can I expect to use ultra fast for all my problems? 00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:01.437 >> You can pay us for it and do it now. 00:32:01.520 --> 00:32:03.017 Like uh >> Yeah, I don't think I can afford it. 00:32:03.100 --> 00:32:07.317 [laughter] >> I think we can deliver 8x 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:11.757 at a great price in the not distant future. But then we'll have 100x faster. 00:32:11.840 --> 00:32:16.157 And like, you know, and there they'll also be like, you know, GPT-7 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:18.677 galaxy or whatever. Um 00:32:18.760 --> 00:32:21.557 And so, I I think I I think the right 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.757 way to think about this is 00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:29.437 as far as I can see there will always be a real frontier in 00:32:29.520 --> 00:32:33.477 terms of intelligence or speed or whatever else at a higher price. But I 00:32:33.560 --> 00:32:35.717 think you can also bet that we will keep 00:32:35.800 --> 00:32:37.677 doing what we've done of just a 00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:40.997 ridiculous like put Moore's law to shame 00:32:41.080 --> 00:32:44.637 relentless focus on driving value per 00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:48.597 dollar up and up and up kind of in this big company way. 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.317 >> Amazing. Sam, thank you so much. 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.800 >> Thank you. 00:32:53.540 --> 00:32:55.560 >> [applause] 00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:57.877 >> THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING. I DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WAS GOING TO BE LIKE A 00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:00.157 LIVE AUDIENCE, but that was fun. 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.840 See you. >> See you.