1 00:00:00,470 --> 00:00:03,817 Angelo this year will start producing autonomous fighter jets at 2 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:07,180 its new Arsenal One production facility in Pickaway County. 3 00:00:07,550 --> 00:00:10,947 This is a $1 billion project that will bring 4000 4 00:00:11,030 --> 00:00:13,290 jobs to central Ohio over the next decade. 5 00:00:13,690 --> 00:00:17,290 The excitement is certainly building and now on 10 TV Plus 6 00:00:17,530 --> 00:00:22,910 we hear from the man behind this vision, the founder of Anderil, Palmer Luckey. 7 00:00:23,210 --> 00:00:26,447 Thanks so much for joining us for this special presentation of 10 TV Plus. 8 00:00:26,530 --> 00:00:29,680 I'm Angela Ann. Let's start with what we know today. 9 00:00:29,890 --> 00:00:31,197 Andaril first made its announce. 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,390 Announcement of coming to Ohio in January 2025. 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:35,197 Since then, 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,760 it built out an existing spec warehouse to become the first Arsenal One building, 13 00:00:40,010 --> 00:00:42,670 and building number two here is near completion. 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,260 When it is all said and done, the Arsenal One campus will encompass 5 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:48,900 million square feet. 16 00:00:56,170 --> 00:01:00,950 And that is what will be coming off the line by this summer in Pickaway County 17 00:01:01,300 --> 00:01:05,600 YFQ 44A, the Fury autonomous fighter jet. 18 00:01:05,860 --> 00:01:08,120 You're looking at a test flight last October 19 00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:13,830 after it took Angela less than a year to build this prototype for the US Air Force. 20 00:01:14,220 --> 00:01:17,680 Now I had the chance to talk exclusively with Palmer Luckey 21 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:20,050 during his recent visit to Pickaway County. 22 00:01:20,180 --> 00:01:23,037 He met with local leaders, firefighters, even construction. 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,220 Workers saying he wanted to meet the people who are all part of history 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,340 and helping to rebuild the arsenal. 25 00:01:29,810 --> 00:01:34,760 Here now is my exclusive conversation with Palmer Luckey from inside Arsenal One. 26 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,280 Angela Ann here exclusively inside the new Arsenal One 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,560 facility with the one and only Palmer Lucky. 28 00:01:42,670 --> 00:01:43,957 -- How are -- you? Thank you for coming. 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,400 Welcome to building one of Arsenal One. 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,167 Looking around, is this what you expected? 31 00:01:49,250 --> 00:01:51,830 Do you feel it? You know, it's pretty exciting. 32 00:01:52,150 --> 00:01:53,777 We've been expecting it for a while. 33 00:01:53,860 --> 00:01:55,147 There were a lot of people who said we weren't 34 00:01:55,230 --> 00:01:57,530 going to be able to build a factory this fast. 35 00:01:58,110 --> 00:01:59,897 We announced the project a year ago, 36 00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:02,467 so we've gone from announcement to this building, 37 00:02:02,550 --> 00:02:05,450 and we actually just finished all the exterior building 38 00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:07,147 and construction on Building 2. 39 00:02:07,230 --> 00:02:10,957 So we're moving really fast. We're going to be starting fighter jet production here 40 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,510 of the FQ-44 Fury in a matter of weeks. 41 00:02:15,330 --> 00:02:17,890 You say weeks. I mean when you talk hyper scale, 42 00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:21,567 this is what a hyperscale looks like fast, furious, we're on it. 43 00:02:21,650 --> 00:02:23,050 That's right. I mean, 44 00:02:23,610 --> 00:02:27,312 there are certain things that you cannot build at small scale at a reasonable 45 00:02:27,395 --> 00:02:30,145 price. There's certain things where it only makes sense 46 00:02:30,670 --> 00:02:31,847 if you can scale up production. 47 00:02:31,930 --> 00:02:33,430 That's true for a lot of cars. 48 00:02:33,540 --> 00:02:36,290 That's true for a lot of consumer electronics projects. 49 00:02:36,380 --> 00:02:39,180 My last company was Oculus VR, which I sold to Facebook, 50 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,207 and you can't build one VR headset for an affordable price, 51 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:44,787 but you can build a million of them. 52 00:02:44,870 --> 00:02:48,570 And the same way, you can't build one fighter jet for an affordable price, 53 00:02:48,740 --> 00:02:51,370 but you can build hundreds or thousands of them. 54 00:02:52,210 --> 00:02:55,740 You had the chance to meet with some of our local representatives, 55 00:02:55,940 --> 00:02:57,497 really the boots on the ground, folks. 56 00:02:57,580 --> 00:03:01,017 I want to take a pause here because as we look around at this massive expansion, 57 00:03:01,100 --> 00:03:04,080 what is it that you wanted them to see first? 58 00:03:04,620 --> 00:03:07,377 So a lot of these are people who we've been working with for, you know, 59 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:10,737 a year or more, and so the thing that I wanted them to see was that 60 00:03:10,820 --> 00:03:13,577 the things that we told them we were going to do, we actually came through. 61 00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:15,297 We've been hiring a bunch of people. 62 00:03:15,380 --> 00:03:18,617 We've been actually rotating those people out to our headquarters in California, 63 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:21,717 training them, bringing them back here, putting them to work on the line. 64 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,757 We're actually building these facilities. 65 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,877 It's actually working. We're getting all the permits we need. 66 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,397 We're getting the customer traction we need. 67 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,800 So I think most of my talks with local legislators, you know, local, 68 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,360 local leaders has been, hey, look, what we said we were going to do, 69 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,470 we actually did it, because if I can get that track record, 70 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,187 prove that I'm somebody who does what I say, that I'm a man of my word, 71 00:03:42,270 --> 00:03:43,437 then they're going to trust me the next time 72 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,357 that I come to them with something and say, hey, time to do even more. 73 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,690 We're not, we're not going to end at 5 million square feet. 74 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,310 We're going to start there. 75 00:03:51,540 --> 00:03:56,300 Walk me through. I see 22 stations around this huge massive facility. 76 00:03:56,820 --> 00:03:58,540 What is going to happen around us? 77 00:03:58,820 --> 00:04:03,020 So these stations have just been finished in terms of construction of the stations. 78 00:04:03,180 --> 00:04:05,747 We're about to start bringing in all the equipment for the work they've done. 79 00:04:05,830 --> 00:04:07,697 So different stations all in different roles. 80 00:04:07,780 --> 00:04:10,537 You're going to have the aircraft moving down around this 81 00:04:10,620 --> 00:04:15,280 line this way as you have wiring harnesses installed, weapons systems installed, 82 00:04:15,740 --> 00:04:16,817 sensors installed. 83 00:04:16,900 --> 00:04:20,167 You're going to have stealth coatings applied to the composite airframe, 84 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:24,620 and then over the. Tested to make sure that it actually has the low 85 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,077 radar signature that the Air Force needs for this 86 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,160 to be a useful platform alongside F-35s and F-22s. 87 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,017 If you're going to have robot fighter jets, 88 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:35,187 you need to make sure that they're coming off the line absolutely perfect. 89 00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:38,170 So this is everything you need to build a fighter jet from 90 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,430 nothing all the way to a ready to go flying fighter jet. 91 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,300 We're going to be able to take those off right from Rickenbacker 92 00:04:46,610 --> 00:04:48,560 and fly those directly to the customer. 93 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,980 What makes this so different than a Traditional defense 94 00:04:52,180 --> 00:04:57,377 manufacturing facility. There are a lot of nuances here and there. 95 00:04:57,460 --> 00:05:00,337 I mean, one of them is we've built this as a very modular facility. 96 00:05:00,420 --> 00:05:04,497 So if you look around, you'll notice we don't have what we call monuments, meaning 97 00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:07,497 big parts of the facility that are locked in place, trapped in place, 98 00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:10,850 made of concrete and steel, welded together as an integral part. 99 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:14,900 The reason for all of it remaining relatively mobile and easy to move, 100 00:05:15,020 --> 00:05:19,220 even things like our gantry cranes, is that you can reconfigure the factory. 101 00:05:19,340 --> 00:05:22,677 So if I need to scale. Scale up production or if I need to build a different 102 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,940 aircraft or suppose the Department of War comes to us and says 103 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,357 we need you to focus on this particular model of the aircraft, not this other one, 104 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,500 or we need you to make a bunch of this cruise missile 105 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,117 in this part of the factory. We can reconfigure it to do that. 106 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:36,527 So that's one of the things we've done differently. 107 00:05:36,610 --> 00:05:39,710 The biggest difference is Androl is a defense product company. 108 00:05:39,850 --> 00:05:41,977 We're not a contractor. We're a product company. 109 00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:45,677 We use our own money to decide what to build, how to build it, when it's done. 110 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,540 We work with the customer closely in that process, but we've invested. 111 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:53,320 Hundreds of millions of dollars in this factory already 112 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:56,857 because we believe in putting our own money towards these programs. 113 00:05:56,940 --> 00:05:59,107 I think that when we trip and fall, we should lose our own money. 114 00:05:59,190 --> 00:06:00,900 It's good to live in fear, not. 115 00:06:01,350 --> 00:06:02,107 Just 116 00:06:02,190 --> 00:06:05,827 lounge on the taxpayer dime, and I think that makes a really big difference 117 00:06:05,910 --> 00:06:07,787 between Ander and a lot of other competition. 118 00:06:07,870 --> 00:06:09,070 I'll end by saying this. 119 00:06:09,310 --> 00:06:12,155 The first page of our first pitch deck to our investors was that Anderil was going 120 00:06:12,239 --> 00:06:14,827 to save Americans hundreds of billions a year by 121 00:06:14,910 --> 00:06:17,010 making tens of billions of dollars a year. 122 00:06:17,150 --> 00:06:20,147 We're not there yet, -- but we're -- getting there, rebuilding the arsenal. 123 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:22,307 -- We're -- trying to rebuild the arsenal of democracy. 124 00:06:22,390 --> 00:06:25,897 I love that clarification. Because I feel like, and you tell me if I'm wrong, 125 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:27,807 that that might have been the most misunderstood part 126 00:06:27,890 --> 00:06:29,910 of what Angel is doing with Arsenal One. 127 00:06:30,130 --> 00:06:33,047 Sure, you mean in terms of what we're actually building here? 128 00:06:33,130 --> 00:06:35,807 Yes, yes. I mean, look, what we're building here not a weapons factory. 129 00:06:35,890 --> 00:06:39,890 What we're doing is we're trying to build the tools that are maximally deterrent 130 00:06:40,010 --> 00:06:44,180 to the enemies that the United States doesn't want to get in a fight with. 131 00:06:44,450 --> 00:06:46,550 The goal here is not to build the weapons. 132 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,230 That will win a war with China. 133 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,357 It's to build the things that will make China never want 134 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:51,477 to go to war with us in the first place. 135 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,340 It's not to build the things that will make North Korea 136 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,200 lose in a fight against South Korea. 137 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,730 It's to make them realize that they can't win a fight with us. 138 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:04,390 Now there are certain actors in the world who are irrational actors. 139 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,860 You can't play game theory with people who believe that they win by dying. 140 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,037 You're not going to deter them by building things like this at Arsenal One, 141 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,620 so there will always be fights with people that you can't reason with, 142 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,757 but the things that we really need to be worried about as 143 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,320 a country are toe to toe fights between superpowers and hyperpowers, 144 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,797 and we are building the tools that we need to. 145 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:25,820 Protect Americans. 146 00:07:25,990 --> 00:07:29,797 Protect American interests and protect American allies around the world by making 147 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,860 it clear we are not a force that you can overcome. 148 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:35,307 I have to segue. You talk about the conflicts around the world, 149 00:07:35,390 --> 00:07:36,807 obviously what's going on with Iran. 150 00:07:36,890 --> 00:07:39,800 Yes, you're watching very closely, -- of -- course we've. 151 00:07:41,330 --> 00:07:44,517 So I mean And does a lot of work on US bases all around the world, 152 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,077 including in that region, doing air defense, drone defense, 153 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,757 a variety of other missions. -- So we've been very deeply -- involved. 154 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,317 Is Arsenal or Zander I should say, and the building of Arsenal One, 155 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:54,957 you think going to give us that advantage that 156 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,917 we need for conflicts like against Iran and other future conflicts? 157 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,927 It's going to give us the advantage we need and the Magazine depth that we need. 158 00:08:02,010 --> 00:08:06,950 One of the issues right now is that every day of this conflict we're burning through 159 00:08:07,330 --> 00:08:10,240 months or even years of certain weapons systems. 160 00:08:10,330 --> 00:08:13,110 100%. If our adversaries know 161 00:08:13,370 --> 00:08:17,057 that they can just wait us out or outproduce us or that 162 00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:20,430 we'll fight a hard fight for 10 days and then run out. 163 00:08:21,650 --> 00:08:23,117 They're not gonna be very threatened by that. 164 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,930 They need to be, they need to be of the belief 165 00:08:26,130 --> 00:08:32,050 that America can fight a war on day 1, day 2, day 10, day 100, day 1000. 166 00:08:33,110 --> 00:08:34,557 That's what real deterrence is. 167 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,710 Do you feel like autonomous weapons 168 00:08:37,330 --> 00:08:38,163 are 169 00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:42,240 What's going to win this weapons arms race? 170 00:08:42,830 --> 00:08:44,980 I do for two big reasons. 171 00:08:45,430 --> 00:08:48,910 The first is that autonomous weapons can be used in ways 172 00:08:49,110 --> 00:08:53,250 that you could never morally use a manned aircraft. 173 00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:54,980 I can put them into harm's way. 174 00:08:55,070 --> 00:08:56,770 I can trade them against an enemy. 175 00:08:56,950 --> 00:08:59,400 I can put them out as the tip of the spear, 176 00:08:59,630 --> 00:09:02,530 engaging in tactics that are likely to get it killed. 177 00:09:03,490 --> 00:09:06,810 Because that strategic outcome of that mission is worth it. 178 00:09:07,010 --> 00:09:09,490 Imagine trying to play chess without pawns. 179 00:09:09,820 --> 00:09:14,330 Imagine if you didn't have pieces that you could put in harm's way without fear. 180 00:09:14,850 --> 00:09:17,287 I, I think that autonomous weapons like fury are going 181 00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:21,880 to be a critical part of the way that we deter wars and win wars. 182 00:09:22,130 --> 00:09:23,480 The other side is economic. 183 00:09:23,850 --> 00:09:26,730 The thing about autonomous weapons is that you can buy 184 00:09:26,970 --> 00:09:29,877 a very large number of them without having to 185 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,847 increase the amount of manpower required to operate them. 186 00:09:31,930 --> 00:09:33,130 If I want to buy a ship. 187 00:09:33,810 --> 00:09:38,850 You know, I want I want the US Navy to go from 300 ships to let's say 600 ships. 188 00:09:39,090 --> 00:09:41,487 I need to hire literally tens of thousands 189 00:09:41,570 --> 00:09:44,560 of additional sailors just to staff those ships 190 00:09:44,690 --> 00:09:48,277 and maintain them and build the parts, and then I have to sail them all 191 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,927 over the world to keep everybody trained continuously. 192 00:09:51,010 --> 00:09:52,767 You kind of have to play pretend that being 193 00:09:52,850 --> 00:09:55,370 at war continuously when you have a manned system. 194 00:09:55,530 --> 00:09:57,237 With an unmanned system, I can build a ship. 195 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,060 I can build a fighter jet. I can build a submarine. 196 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,637 I can put it in a warehouse like a Twinkie in a wrapper. 197 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,667 It lasts for 1000 years. -- I -- was going to ask you about that. 198 00:10:04,750 --> 00:10:06,360 You compare weapons to Twinkies. 199 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:10,560 I look, I've talked about this concept before, but we need to be building things 200 00:10:10,750 --> 00:10:15,307 exactly, and that's what allows us now we can have a navy of not 600 ships, 201 00:10:15,390 --> 00:10:20,630 but 1000 ships, and we don't have to have the absolutely unmanageable cost. 202 00:10:20,740 --> 00:10:23,417 Of the people it would take to staff a 1000 person navy, 203 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:26,010 but we could wait 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. 204 00:10:26,260 --> 00:10:27,297 We can break these things out. 205 00:10:27,380 --> 00:10:29,578 Maybe you're going to put in a new brain chip or you're going to upgrade 206 00:10:29,661 --> 00:10:32,017 the sensor. -- Stuff is going to advance so much -- faster. 207 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:34,457 Stuff is going to advance, but think about it this way. 208 00:10:34,540 --> 00:10:39,970 There are bombers over Iran right now that were designed almost 100 years ago. 209 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,120 The United States is very good at taking. 210 00:10:44,830 --> 00:10:47,937 Systems that work and upgrading them and upgrading them and upgrading them. 211 00:10:48,020 --> 00:10:50,710 We're building Fury here in a matter of weeks. 212 00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:54,827 I think 50 years from today there's going to be aircraft that look a lot like Fury, 213 00:10:54,910 --> 00:10:56,497 and they're going to have new engines and they're going to 214 00:10:56,580 --> 00:10:58,947 have new sensors and they're going to have new weapons, 215 00:10:59,030 --> 00:11:01,450 but just like the F-15 or the F-16. 216 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:07,070 Or even the F-22, you're gonna have these platforms flying for decades, 217 00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:11,290 maybe even a century. I've heard you talk about this when it comes to 218 00:11:11,390 --> 00:11:14,987 these autonomous systems, so my question is a little philosophical here for you. 219 00:11:15,070 --> 00:11:18,900 Should AI ever be allowed to make that lethal decision about 220 00:11:19,470 --> 00:11:20,780 a human pressing a button? 221 00:11:21,510 --> 00:11:25,910 Reasonable people disagree, but I strongly believe yes, and my reasoning is this. 222 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:27,433 Life and death, 223 00:11:28,270 --> 00:11:30,370 matters of life and death are too 224 00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:34,907 important. They are too fraught to not apply the best 225 00:11:34,990 --> 00:11:38,270 possible technology to minimizing collateral damage, 226 00:11:38,430 --> 00:11:40,690 minimizing harm that need not happen. 227 00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:44,900 For example, people will say things like Palmer, but can't you agree that 228 00:11:45,650 --> 00:11:48,497 An algorithm should never decide who lives and dies. 229 00:11:48,580 --> 00:11:50,397 I say, well, I, I don't, I don't see it. 230 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,330 I don't see the moral high ground in making, for example, 231 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,950 uh, an anti-vehicle landmine that can't tell the difference between 232 00:11:57,780 --> 00:12:00,560 a Russian tank and a school bus full of kids. 233 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:04,217 I, I, I just, I, and you could say, oh well, you know, we blew up the school bus, 234 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:08,937 but at least an algorithm didn't decide who dies, and I, I, I just, 235 00:12:09,020 --> 00:12:10,617 I can't see it because in the real world, 236 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:14,350 the question that we have to ask ourselves, it's, it's not a question of. 237 00:12:16,820 --> 00:12:22,180 No weapons or smart weapons. It's a question of dumb weapons or smart weapons. 238 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:24,497 And if I can build weapons that are able to 239 00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:27,640 reduce the number of civilian lives lost in war, 240 00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:30,530 I'm going to take that every single time, wherever, 241 00:12:31,130 --> 00:12:32,780 however spooky that might feel. 242 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:36,257 Now the key is, of course, we need to hold humans accountable for that use of force, 243 00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:37,657 and that's where the question comes in. 244 00:12:37,740 --> 00:12:40,967 I think that the responsibility must lie with humans, and we need. 245 00:12:41,050 --> 00:12:43,047 People to take responsibility. 246 00:12:43,130 --> 00:12:48,430 If I'm deploying those landmines in a place where they're able to make a mistake 247 00:12:48,650 --> 00:12:51,327 and they make a mistake, a person needs to be held accountable. 248 00:12:51,410 --> 00:12:53,047 You say, did you use them appropriately? 249 00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:54,647 Did you trade the risks appropriately? 250 00:12:54,730 --> 00:12:55,767 Does this actually make sense? 251 00:12:55,850 --> 00:12:58,807 It's the same thing that we use for existing air defense systems. 252 00:12:58,890 --> 00:13:01,810 If I turn an air defense system into full automated mode, 253 00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:05,940 shoot down anything that's incoming, and then it shoots down a guy in a Cessna. 254 00:13:06,660 --> 00:13:07,960 Who wasn't doing anything, 255 00:13:08,140 --> 00:13:10,087 there's going to be an investigation and they're going to say, 256 00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:13,487 did this warrant that? like were you in a situation that warranted this? 257 00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:14,937 Are you in in an area that warrant this? 258 00:13:15,020 --> 00:13:17,777 Did you do enough of a review to understand what the consequences were? 259 00:13:17,860 --> 00:13:22,000 The answer is not to say that you cannot have an autonomous air defense system, 260 00:13:22,210 --> 00:13:23,017 because you do that, 261 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:25,810 all someone has to do is they break communications or break your command 262 00:13:25,893 --> 00:13:28,697 and control or use an electromagnetic pulse that fries your 263 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:32,430 your fries the laptop that controls it, and now your enemy can pummel you 264 00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:34,620 without stopping, and I so. 265 00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:38,417 I think we do need to get comfortable with the idea that there 266 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:41,897 will be certain systems that are making decisions of life and death, 267 00:13:41,980 --> 00:13:45,420 and we need to be very careful about how we deploy them and how we 268 00:13:45,860 --> 00:13:47,937 take responsibility for the actions of those systems. 269 00:13:48,020 --> 00:13:51,177 And so if the systems were to say something happens, malfunctions, whatever, 270 00:13:51,260 --> 00:13:53,887 you would be the first to say, all right, we take responsibility. 271 00:13:53,970 --> 00:13:55,897 Let's fix it. Let's figure it out for the next step. 272 00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:59,097 And I'll go a step further. I think that people have actually been building 273 00:13:59,180 --> 00:14:01,447 autonomous weapons systems for thousands of years. 274 00:14:01,530 --> 00:14:03,607 They haven't been powered by AI exactly, 275 00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:06,287 but you can go back 3000 years and find records 276 00:14:06,370 --> 00:14:09,550 of the Chinese building pit traps that were designed to let 277 00:14:10,050 --> 00:14:11,567 some soldiers walk over them, 278 00:14:11,650 --> 00:14:15,187 and then the heavier soldiers carrying armor or horses fall straight through. 279 00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:17,567 That is a weapons system that is making targeting decisions 280 00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:19,847 based on the intent of the engineer who created it. 281 00:14:19,930 --> 00:14:22,560 Is it using AI? No. But the real question is, 282 00:14:22,770 --> 00:14:25,567 are we comfortable with technological weapons that 283 00:14:25,650 --> 00:14:27,970 act independent of the immediate oversight? 284 00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:33,247 Of a person and the answer I think has to be yes, with the right restrictions, 285 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:36,057 with the right accountability, and accountability, by the way, 286 00:14:36,140 --> 00:14:37,967 cannot be to corporate executives like me. 287 00:14:38,050 --> 00:14:40,327 It cannot be to executives who run AI companies. 288 00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:44,230 It needs to be to the people who elect civilian leadership 289 00:14:44,410 --> 00:14:47,487 that is tasked with overseeing the military and holding them accountable. 290 00:14:47,570 --> 00:14:50,727 No, we can't, we can't live in a world where corporate executives 291 00:14:50,810 --> 00:14:54,450 have more practical power and control over US. 292 00:14:54,810 --> 00:14:58,360 Foreign and US military policy than the President of the United States, 293 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,997 than the US Congress, and there are people who I think would love to see that. 294 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:03,877 -- I am not -- one of them. You don't want to be that. 295 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,957 You don't want to be the Pentagon's it guy making those decisions. 296 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,437 I want to be their it guy for making their weapons, for making their tools, 297 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,630 but I need to be kept on a short leash on a strong chain. 298 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,517 I should. People come to me all the time. 299 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,790 Palmer, would you sell to this country? 300 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,117 Would you allow your weapons to be used in this way or that? 301 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,457 That way, would you cut them off if they tried to do this? 302 00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:27,190 They say this is crazy. You're asking me if I as a corporate executive, 303 00:15:27,390 --> 00:15:31,060 should have the power to shut off parts of the US military 304 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,117 unilaterally against the will of the president of the 305 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,347 United States or Congress or the people elected. 306 00:15:36,430 --> 00:15:40,994 Like that is a not a that is a dystopian future you should stay as far away from 307 00:15:41,078 --> 00:15:44,547 as possible. Even people who trust me, they shouldn't trust who comes after me. 308 00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:45,997 They shouldn't trust anybody else. 309 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:51,550 These have to remain. Again, in the realm of civilian elected leadership, 310 00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:55,340 people you can elect into power and that you can get out of power, 311 00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:59,427 nobody's figured out a way to have the American people vote me out of my role, 312 00:15:59,510 --> 00:16:01,347 so I better not be in charge of these decisions. 313 00:16:01,430 --> 00:16:03,947 But could you sell to another country if you wanted to? 314 00:16:04,030 --> 00:16:04,863 -- So -- I can. 315 00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:07,417 With the cooperation of the United States government, 316 00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:08,897 what a lot of people don't know is 317 00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:11,447 I'm actually very constricted in who I can sell to based 318 00:16:11,530 --> 00:16:13,617 -- on what you're building for the Department of Defense's -- right. 319 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:16,537 I mean if I were to try to sell to North Korea, I'd go to prison. 320 00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:17,977 And then at the same time, 321 00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:21,760 there's countries that the United States government wants us to work with, 322 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:24,700 sometimes for reasons that make a lot of sense publicly, 323 00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:28,417 sometimes for reasons people don't understand publicly, but you look back at, 324 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:29,800 for example, the Cold War. 325 00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:33,637 There were times where people were really upset that the United States was 326 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,067 allowing US weapons companies to sell air defense systems to certain countries. 327 00:16:37,150 --> 00:16:39,587 They're saying, Why are you selling to these autocratic regimes? 328 00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:42,187 Why are you doing this? And then it comes out after the fact. 329 00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:45,317 It's because we secretly had nuclear weapons stationed on the airfields, 330 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,161 and it was critical that we not allow the Russians to come in and steal those 331 00:16:48,244 --> 00:16:49,780 weapons. The point is, 332 00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:53,387 the public is not always going to have every piece of information, 333 00:16:53,470 --> 00:16:56,870 and sometimes they can't. But if you believe in democracy, 334 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,037 if you believe in the American experiment, 335 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,477 and if you believe that this constitutional republic of ours, 336 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,510 flawed as it might be, is a better way to run a government than corporatocracy, 337 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,717 then it's kind of the trade that you have to make. 338 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,477 -- What -- worries you more, Palmer, China's innovation 339 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,477 or the red tape that sometimes we go through here in the US to get things done? 340 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,357 Well, you know, there's an old joke, if you want to sabotage China's war machine, 341 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,690 just take the US procurement manual, stand. 342 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,180 Classified on it and they'll steal it and copy it in no time. 343 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,987 I, I, I think that it's both. I mean there's a lot of, 344 00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:30,920 there's a lot of problems with the US 345 00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:32,357 technology development and procurement systems. 346 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,877 Certainly our manufacturing supply chain is not nearly as advanced as China. 347 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,387 Look, I, I used to be part of the problem. 348 00:17:37,470 --> 00:17:40,627 I made millions of virtual reality headsets in China at my previous job, 349 00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:43,477 Oculus VR. I started a virtual reality company when I was 19 years old, 350 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,510 sold to Facebook, worked on VR there for a few years before they fired me, and 351 00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:49,367 I've spent a lot of time. In China, 352 00:17:49,450 --> 00:17:52,000 I've had teams of hundreds of Chinese engineers. 353 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,727 They know how to get stuff done. 354 00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:58,140 They are an incredible power. If I, if I had no national allegiance, I would be 355 00:17:58,290 --> 00:18:04,070 in Shenzhen, China for sure. It is the best place in the world to get stuff done 356 00:18:04,570 --> 00:18:07,770 very, very fast if you are an engineer with a clear vision. 357 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,660 Now there's advantages to the US. 358 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,157 Like there's certain things you can only build here. 359 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,087 There's certain things where the talent is only here. 360 00:18:14,170 --> 00:18:15,530 There's certainly a lot of. 361 00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:19,170 Capital available here in a way that is not available in China, 362 00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:21,990 but we cannot take them lightly. 363 00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:26,490 They are very, very good at making the things that we are bad at making, 364 00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:28,680 and until we're able to reverse that, 365 00:18:29,370 --> 00:18:30,567 we're going to be on the back foot. 366 00:18:30,650 --> 00:18:33,367 Do you feel like from what you heard with some of the leaders today, 367 00:18:33,450 --> 00:18:36,890 the local leaders, yes, Arsenal One is turning that tide. 368 00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:39,730 You've promised 4000 jobs in the next 10 years. 369 00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:42,570 You're partnering with our local schools, engineers. 370 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:44,920 Schools are back. That's in business. 371 00:18:45,130 --> 00:18:48,420 Do you feel like you are building that arsenal of our workforce? 372 00:18:48,530 --> 00:18:51,487 I think so, and I think that that's going to be a mix of people that are doing 373 00:18:51,570 --> 00:18:55,450 traditional 4-year college programs, people doing 2-year degrees, 374 00:18:55,570 --> 00:18:59,087 even people doing things like 6 month work training programs right out of the garage. 375 00:18:59,170 --> 00:19:01,727 Well, look, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't graduate from college myself. 376 00:19:01,810 --> 00:19:04,590 I dropped out when I was 19 to start my first company. 377 00:19:05,050 --> 00:19:08,700 Andro doesn't require a college degree for any job in the entire company, 378 00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:12,410 any of them. Even our engineering roles and so the people who work here, 379 00:19:12,650 --> 00:19:15,477 there's going to be a mix of people who make different decisions about their life, 380 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:16,407 about their career. 381 00:19:16,490 --> 00:19:19,597 We're going to have a place for all of those people as long as they want to work 382 00:19:19,681 --> 00:19:22,797 hard, work on problems that matter, and help us rebuild the arsenal. 383 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,567 -- So -- when you see all these people looking at you right now, like, 384 00:19:24,650 --> 00:19:29,830 do you feel like some responsibility, I mean, you are making generational change 385 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:32,007 for some of them. I feel a lot of responsibility, 386 00:19:32,090 --> 00:19:36,050 and the thing that I remember every day is that Andal. 387 00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:38,560 Look, the people we hire, 388 00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:41,827 they're not, we're not their employer of last resort. 389 00:19:41,910 --> 00:19:45,057 Nobody is coming to work here because there are no other options, right? 390 00:19:45,140 --> 00:19:46,667 These are all smart people, motivated people. 391 00:19:46,750 --> 00:19:48,347 They could be starting their own companies. 392 00:19:48,430 --> 00:19:50,107 They could be going to work at big tech companies. 393 00:19:50,190 --> 00:19:52,480 They could be going to other startups. 394 00:19:52,990 --> 00:19:57,310 The fact that they're here means that they support our mission, and I need to. 395 00:19:57,650 --> 00:20:00,450 In turn, recognize that I can't take them for granted. 396 00:20:00,650 --> 00:20:02,127 These are people who have other options. 397 00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:04,370 I need to make this a great place to work. 398 00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:07,407 I need to make it a great way for them to support their families. 399 00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:10,367 I hope that people, when they eventually leave, 400 00:20:10,450 --> 00:20:13,127 because people probably aren't gonna work for us, you know, until they, 401 00:20:13,210 --> 00:20:14,860 until they keel over and die, uh, 402 00:20:15,330 --> 00:20:17,980 but I hope that when people eventually leave Anderal, 403 00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:22,510 they look back and say, wow, that was professionally fulfilling, 404 00:20:23,260 --> 00:20:26,650 uh, that was fiscally fulfilling, that was spiritually fulfilling. 405 00:20:27,150 --> 00:20:31,467 It was the most fulfilling role that I could have had in this time in my life, 406 00:20:31,550 --> 00:20:32,437 -- and I think that we're -- doing that. 407 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,367 I want to talk about the AI Grand Prix real quickly. 408 00:20:34,450 --> 00:20:36,550 Let's do it. I mean, that's so exciting. 409 00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:39,870 No one's done it, and you said that's why I'm going to do it. 410 00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:44,610 That's right. So the AI Grand Prix is a competition that we just launched 411 00:20:45,550 --> 00:20:46,383 that. 412 00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:50,960 Is primarily targeted at people who want 413 00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:55,457 to be working on the latest cutting edge autonomy technology, so most, 414 00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:57,657 it's a drone race, but unlike moon drones, 415 00:20:57,740 --> 00:21:01,257 most drone races which focus on how well you can be a joystick jockey, you're, 416 00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:04,140 you know, how fast can I react, how well can I pilot it. 417 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,677 It instead focuses on how well you can program the brain of a drone, 418 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,390 so everybody gets the same drone, all of the teams, 419 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,437 and then they are building their own 420 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,887 control algorithms and control schemes that are 421 00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:18,407 going to pilot these drones through an obstacle course as quickly as possible. 422 00:21:18,490 --> 00:21:21,827 So it's not about reaction time, it's not about how good you are with a joystick, 423 00:21:21,910 --> 00:21:25,517 it's about how good you are at typing on the computer, how good are you at coding. 424 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,860 In the first day we opened, we had over 1000 teams enter the AI Grand Prix. 425 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,340 -- It's -- almost like you're recruiting tool. 426 00:21:34,090 --> 00:21:36,067 it. It actually literally is a recruiting tool. 427 00:21:36,150 --> 00:21:38,027 In fact, the the the the winning prize, 428 00:21:38,110 --> 00:21:42,307 not only do we have a prize pool where you can win hundreds of thousands of dollars, 429 00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:44,800 we are also offering jobs to the winning team. 430 00:21:44,910 --> 00:21:49,420 So if you, if you win, you get cash and a job at Anderal if you want it. 431 00:21:49,670 --> 00:21:56,290 I'm curious, Palmer, what was the aha moment for you where your focus from 432 00:21:56,430 --> 00:22:01,190 Oculus to defense came? What, what made you say that's it? 433 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,450 You know, I've been interested in national security for a very long time. 434 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,517 My grandfather was not in the military, 435 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,197 but he was a civilian operator who helped move equipment for the Air Force, 436 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,280 including during Operation Desert Storm. 437 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,157 He has a letter from the Secretary of the Air Force thanking him for his help during 438 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,997 Desert Storm, that he's passed away now, 439 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,700 but I keep it in a frame in my home office. 440 00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:26,797 And North Star. Yeah, I've been interested in this for a very long time. 441 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,197 My grandpa is one of my heroes. 442 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,800 I named my son after him. 443 00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:32,567 But even, even before I started Oculus, 444 00:22:32,650 --> 00:22:36,990 I worked in an Army affiliate research center on a program using virtual reality 445 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,490 exposure therapy to treat veterans with PTSD, and that was, 446 00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:44,487 that was something else that got me very interested in how you can use technology 447 00:22:44,570 --> 00:22:46,470 to help the men and women 448 00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:50,256 that are on the front lines of these fights who are coming back with real 449 00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:53,290 injuries, sometimes obvious, sometimes less obvious. 450 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,470 And then I went into, you know, 451 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,477 Oculus and building basically gaming and entertainment tools. 452 00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:59,610 I guess you could say 453 00:22:59,780 --> 00:23:03,971 Anderal is not so much a pivot into something new for me as a return to where 454 00:23:04,055 --> 00:23:04,627 I started. 455 00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:08,347 So I've loved the last 8 or 9 years that I've spent working on these problems. 456 00:23:08,430 --> 00:23:10,687 I think they're some of the most important problems out there. 457 00:23:10,770 --> 00:23:12,847 I think that there's not nearly enough people working on them, 458 00:23:12,930 --> 00:23:16,247 and if people don't work for me, I hope they work on these problems 459 00:23:16,330 --> 00:23:17,807 somewhere else, because again, 460 00:23:17,890 --> 00:23:20,167 they're some of the most important problems we face, 461 00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:24,047 and you can't wait until a war starts to start solving these problems, 462 00:23:24,130 --> 00:23:24,963 because again, 463 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,917 You want to build tools that stop the war from starting, not winning, 464 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,670 and if you wait till the war starts to start working on these problems, 465 00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:35,680 you're just part of the killing, not the stopping. 466 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,767 You think we can catch up because I feel like we got complacent a little while. 467 00:23:39,850 --> 00:23:41,917 -- So -- there's two things that you should keep in mind. 468 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,677 One is that I'm very optimistic that we can catch up in the areas 469 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,147 where the where the American manufacturing side is behind supply chain. 470 00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:53,060 I believe we can catch up. But just as important as that is that 471 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,637 there are people out there who think I'm wrong. 472 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,627 There's people who think that we have to give up, 473 00:23:56,710 --> 00:24:00,260 that we should just give Taiwan to China, that we should just let China 474 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,690 basically economically and politically dominate the world because, it's too late. 475 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,040 And my point to them. 476 00:24:06,830 --> 00:24:11,067 Is that the United States needs people like me who don't believe that. 477 00:24:11,150 --> 00:24:14,170 You have to have people who believe that it's not too late, 478 00:24:14,350 --> 00:24:17,610 because the moment that you stop believing it, you've truly lost. 479 00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:21,050 And so there's people out there, smart people who think I'm wrong. 480 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:27,150 And my point to them is that even if I end up being wrong, thank goodness there's me 481 00:24:27,370 --> 00:24:30,557 and all of these people who think we still have a chance, 482 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,767 and we're not going to give up. 483 00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:34,527 What do you think your grandfather would say to all this? 484 00:24:34,610 --> 00:24:36,960 I think he would be really proud. 485 00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:40,960 He was a United Airlines pilot for about 45 years. 486 00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:42,390 He taught me. 487 00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:46,400 So many of the things that I've used to build my businesses, 488 00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:49,220 and unfortunately he passed away uh 489 00:24:49,870 --> 00:24:52,290 right around the time that I launched the first 490 00:24:52,910 --> 00:24:57,550 Oculus VR consumer headset. So very shortly before he passed, 491 00:24:57,750 --> 00:25:01,950 he was able to use one of our first systems off of the factory line 492 00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:04,570 and uh that was, that was, that was, 493 00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:07,037 that was something that he really appreciated that he, that he, 494 00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:11,170 that he was able to, to make it to that, but I think he'd, I think he'd have, uh, 495 00:25:11,670 --> 00:25:14,660 I think he'd say something like, I'm proud of you. 496 00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:20,037 Everybody has a, everybody has a, has a part in solving these problems, 497 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,370 whether you're in the military or a civilian. 498 00:25:23,290 --> 00:25:26,590 You've been described by every word that you can think of, right? 499 00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:32,810 Eccentric, the Pentagon's it guy, um, he's out there, Hawaiian shirt guy, whatever. 500 00:25:33,010 --> 00:25:34,710 How would you describe yourself? 501 00:25:35,490 --> 00:25:38,520 I would describe myself as a singular individual. 502 00:25:38,860 --> 00:25:41,440 I am what I choose to be and nothing else. 503 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,697 I, I, I think that people really can be what they decide to be, 504 00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:48,657 even if it takes them a while to get there. 505 00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:52,040 And the most annoying thing is when people have contradictory 506 00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:54,500 impressions of me. You know, 507 00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:58,177 there was a time where you had some people saying Palmer is anti-Semitic, 508 00:25:58,260 --> 00:26:01,817 and then the other side saying Palmer Luckey is is is you know, 509 00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:03,917 is this horrible Zionist who loves the Jews. 510 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:04,833 I'm like. 511 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,517 I mean, without even taking a position on you, why, 512 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:07,947 why can't you guys just agree on what I am? 513 00:26:08,030 --> 00:26:11,397 It's like calling me fat and skinny at the same time, you know, pick, pick, pick, 514 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,237 pick, pick an insult, um, but yeah, if I could describe, 515 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,530 if I could describe myself, I, I am, I am me, I'm a technology entrepreneur, uh. 516 00:26:20,450 --> 00:26:23,807 You know what I really like to say, uh, my dad used to say growing up, 517 00:26:23,890 --> 00:26:28,200 think like a problem solver, not a problem creator, because if you're really smart, 518 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,727 you can come up with a million reasons to not do something. 519 00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:34,200 You come up with a million problems as to that can't be solved, 520 00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:39,410 and I'd say if I could describe myself in one way, Palmer Luckey, problem solver, 521 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,970 not problem creator. I love that. 522 00:26:42,090 --> 00:26:44,140 -- I love -- that. Yeah, I like that too. 523 00:26:44,290 --> 00:26:46,387 -- Let's -- put that on a bumper sticker for you. 524 00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:47,670 Um, you're back at Meta. 525 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,937 That's right. No, well, I'm, yeah, I'm working with Meta again. 526 00:26:51,020 --> 00:26:52,620 I mean, how does that, which is, 527 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,517 look, -- it's -- kind of -- full -- circle. 528 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,327 So there's a few things. Look, this is a long, 529 00:26:56,410 --> 00:26:59,000 complicated narrative that I don't think any of, 530 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,440 any of your viewers particularly care about, 531 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,240 but the short version is I gave $9000 to the wrong politician, 532 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,900 ended up getting fired, and I was real sore about that for a very long time. 533 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,100 But at this point, 534 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,520 Facebook executives recently apologized for what they said about me. 535 00:27:15,790 --> 00:27:16,623 They 536 00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:18,750 they they say they love working with me, 537 00:27:18,910 --> 00:27:22,241 that none of the people who are responsible for my firing are still at 538 00:27:22,325 --> 00:27:25,257 the company, and so it becomes a ship of Theseus problem, right? 539 00:27:25,340 --> 00:27:27,027 You know, you have a ship, it's traveling over time. 540 00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:29,507 If you replace every part of the ship over 541 00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:32,747 time such that none of the original components there, is it the same ship, 542 00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:34,630 that's kind of how I feel with Meta. 543 00:27:34,830 --> 00:27:37,387 The people who got me fired, they're not there anymore. 544 00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:40,470 It's been a decade since they fired me. 545 00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:44,780 And so at some point you have to ask yourself, what are you even angry at? 546 00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:49,630 Am I angry at, you know, Meta LLC, a Delaware corporation, 547 00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:52,707 or am I mad at individuals who are 548 00:27:52,790 --> 00:27:55,227 not even associated with that organization anymore? 549 00:27:55,310 --> 00:27:57,057 And I've, I've come to the conclusion. 550 00:27:57,140 --> 00:28:02,690 It's more the latter, and I need to work with Meta for national security purposes. 551 00:28:02,970 --> 00:28:04,437 It's actually been really fantastic. 552 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:05,927 We've been working together to take some of 553 00:28:06,010 --> 00:28:09,510 Meta's technology that they've spent billions of dollars developing 554 00:28:09,650 --> 00:28:13,137 and applying it to the United States Army's problems, to the United States. 555 00:28:13,220 --> 00:28:15,257 It's Air Force's problems and the Marine Corps problem, 556 00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:17,657 and so I think we're we actually have a great partnership where 557 00:28:17,740 --> 00:28:19,097 they're building incredible technology, 558 00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:23,360 some of it based on technology that I sold them a decade ago, and I'm the one 559 00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:27,857 that they're working with to bring that to our warfighters, and I, I, 560 00:28:27,940 --> 00:28:31,490 I think that's fantastic. And I'll end this rant by saying 561 00:28:31,790 --> 00:28:36,850 it would be really lame of me to compromise US national security 562 00:28:37,150 --> 00:28:39,467 because I might have a beef or feel 563 00:28:39,550 --> 00:28:42,110 uncomfortable working with a company that fired me. 564 00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:45,850 If they're the best company to be helping the Department of War, 565 00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:47,580 then I need to get over it. 566 00:28:48,110 --> 00:28:50,627 Don't want to trip over dollars to pick up pennies, so to speak, right? 567 00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:51,543 That's right. 568 00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:57,570 Question, if Arsenal one, as you look at all this works exactly as you envision, 569 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,010 I know you said building the arsenal is a good deterrent for America, 570 00:29:02,130 --> 00:29:05,990 but if this arsenal one here in Pickaway County works as you envision, 571 00:29:06,650 --> 00:29:10,920 does it make the world safer or just more efficiently dangerous? 572 00:29:11,050 --> 00:29:12,380 I think it makes it safer. 573 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,850 If, if you look at the last few decades, post-Cold War, we've seen that 574 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,540 deterrence on the nuclear side and on the conventional side 575 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,357 is a pretty powerful effect. I might end up being wrong in the long run, 576 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,160 but typically the worst wars are the ones that are fought 577 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,700 when one side or another believes that it can win and believes 578 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:35,540 that winning will be easy. 579 00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:38,860 I can't make it where war is impossible, 580 00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:41,819 but I can definitely make it where everyone agrees it is not going to be 581 00:29:41,903 --> 00:29:46,970 easy. And in a war where the, sorry, in a world where the cost of war is high, 582 00:29:47,180 --> 00:29:51,337 you're going to see less warfare on the part of rational superpowers. 583 00:29:51,420 --> 00:29:55,017 Now again, there's going to be crazy people who win by dying, 584 00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:57,820 and you can't fight that. You can't fight that. 585 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,097 And so the United States could have 10,000 fighter jets in reserve. 586 00:30:02,180 --> 00:30:05,840 And a 1000 ship navy, that's not going to convince the guy 587 00:30:06,060 --> 00:30:11,200 who honestly wants to get toasted in his in his uh in his crusade against you, 588 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,077 but it'll certainly stop the people who want to have a functional economy 589 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,110 and a functional society and a place in in in the world order. 590 00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:22,440 Do you have a what's next? Do I have a what's next? 591 00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:25,547 I mean we've got a whole bunch of what's next actually. 592 00:30:25,630 --> 00:30:29,580 We've got some classified secure space over there where we're gonna be building 593 00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:33,587 another system that is the what's next for Anderal, so I can't talk about it today, 594 00:30:33,670 --> 00:30:35,590 but we've got a lot of what's next, 595 00:30:36,580 --> 00:30:38,067 including here at Arsenal One. 596 00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:39,787 What about what's next after Andreel? 597 00:30:39,870 --> 00:30:40,970 Do you see life after? 598 00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:46,427 You know, I have to remind people that I'm not a serial entrepreneur by choice, 599 00:30:46,510 --> 00:30:48,890 right? I started Oculus when I was a teenager. 600 00:30:49,450 --> 00:30:51,877 I would have stayed there for the rest of my life. 601 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,397 I really loved working on virtual reality technology. 602 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,300 I think I would have probably worked on VR technology with military 603 00:30:59,030 --> 00:31:02,037 applications, and I think I would have done some more of that, 604 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,590 gotten back into that, but I love what I'm doing. 605 00:31:05,050 --> 00:31:06,920 These are very interesting problems. 606 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,557 The need for it is really great. 607 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,100 There's very few. Areas where you can directly 608 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,597 save lives and you can see it and you can meet the 609 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,930 people whose lives you saved as a result of your work. 610 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,020 This is one of them. It's extremely rewarding personally. 611 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,620 I've got enough money that I can work on whatever I want, so look, 612 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,437 maybe there will be something else that I want to tackle at some point, 613 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,360 but right now my top priority is definitely and I. 614 00:31:31,450 --> 00:31:32,327 I have a couple of side projects. 615 00:31:32,410 --> 00:31:33,360 I, I, I have a, 616 00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:37,120 I have a cheesecake ice cream burrito company that I have a stake in. 617 00:31:37,410 --> 00:31:39,990 I, I, I have a side project building, uh, 618 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,070 extremely high-end tributes to the Nintendo Game Boy Color, 619 00:31:43,210 --> 00:31:46,627 basically very high-end hardware clones that play Game Boy Color games, but 620 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:49,037 99% of my effort is going into making 621 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,310 sure that America remains the world's preeminent superpower. 622 00:31:53,210 --> 00:31:56,830 Do you think you see things differently now as a father? 623 00:31:58,220 --> 00:31:59,900 Hm, that's an interesting one. 624 00:32:00,870 --> 00:32:04,410 I think, look, my, my, my kid's 18 months old, so he's pretty new. 625 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:07,120 I would say not yet, 626 00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:11,017 but that also might be because I've been planning on having kids for a long time. 627 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:14,977 Me and my wife have been together since we were 15, so like we've been together like 628 00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:17,640 18 years now, and so uh. 629 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,020 I'd say I think a lot of the mind shifts, the the the the shift in mindset 630 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,880 came when I decided that I was going to be a dad, 631 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,700 when I was going to definitely have kids, 632 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,417 and that the act of actually having the kid, it reinforces it a little bit, 633 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,517 but you know some people say, oh my God, everything changed when you had the kid, 634 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,757 but I'm like, nope, I still feel the same way. 635 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,357 I need to make sure that I build a good place for kids. 636 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,117 I want to make sure that they're not growing up 637 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,240 in a place where they're going to be. 638 00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:48,680 In danger or terrified or second class citizens in a global economy. 639 00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:51,787 Now Palmer ended our conversation saying he would love 640 00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:54,900 to bring Baby Freeman out to see Arsenal One 641 00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:58,107 and that he's also considering buying a house in central Ohio. 642 00:32:58,190 --> 00:33:00,227 So it's clear Palmer Luckey is not only 643 00:33:00,310 --> 00:33:04,490 investing in our state from a business standpoint but also personal 644 00:33:04,670 --> 00:33:08,650 and protecting the ones he loves are why rebuilding the arsenal for him 645 00:33:09,070 --> 00:33:10,590 is mission number one. 646 00:33:11,390 --> 00:33:15,030 Thanks so much for watching this special presentation of 10 TV Plus. 647 00:33:15,270 --> 00:33:17,230 I'm Angela Ann. I'll see you around.