WEBVTT

00:00:01.900 --> 00:00:05.127
VERSUS EXPECTATIONS OF $99

00:00:05.210 --> 00:00:09.757
BILLION. EITHER WAY, THE STOCK
IS DOWN ALMOST 3% IN THE PREMARKET.

00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:12.497
>> AND OUR NEXT GUEST
IS ON THE FRONT LINES OF THE AI

00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:15.367
REVOLUTION. JOINING US RIGHT
NOW IS ANTHROPIC CO-FOUNDER AND

00:00:15.450 --> 00:00:17.337
CEO DARIO AMODEI. GREAT TO SEE YOU, SIR.

00:00:17.420 --> 00:00:18.537
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. ANDREW.

00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:23.577
>> SO HERE WE ARE. YOU JUST CAME OUT WITH
A NEW MODEL LAST WEEK. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE

00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:26.507
BUZZING ABOUT THAT HERE.
I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL

00:00:26.590 --> 00:00:29.377
FOR THE AUDIENCE TO UNDERSTAND
HOW YOU SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING,

00:00:29.460 --> 00:00:32.817
WHAT THE FOLKS AT GOOGLE ARE
NOW DOING, WHAT OPENAI IS DOING,

00:00:32.900 --> 00:00:36.817
WHAT YOU THINK X AI IS DOING,
SORT OF WHAT THAT ACTUALLY EVEN

00:00:36.900 --> 00:00:39.057
LOOKS LIKE ANYMORE, BECAUSE
IT DOES SEEM LIKE EVERYBODY'S

00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:42.857
TRYING NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN
TO DIFFERENTIATE IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

00:00:42.940 --> 00:00:45.597
>> THAT'S RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW,
I THINK WE'VE WE'VE PICKED A

00:00:45.680 --> 00:00:49.767
PATH THAT'S QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER
PLAYERS. YOU KNOW ANTHROPIC SINCE THE

00:00:49.850 --> 00:00:52.037
BEGINNING, YOU KNOW, ANTHROPIC
HAS THOUGHT IN TERMS OF SAFETY

00:00:52.120 --> 00:00:53.767
AND RELIABILITY OF AI SYSTEMS.

00:00:53.850 --> 00:00:57.207
AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE
REALIZED IS THAT THAT WAS VERY

00:00:57.290 --> 00:01:00.177
SYNERGISTIC WITH WORKING
WITH ENTERPRISES AS COMPARED TO

00:01:00.260 --> 00:01:04.617
CONSUMERS, BECAUSE ENTERPRISES REALLY
THEY VALUE THE RELIABILITY, THEY VALUE THE

00:01:04.700 --> 00:01:07.417
TRUST, THEY VALUE THE LONG TERM
RELATIONSHIP WITH CUSTOMERS.

00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:10.617
AND AND SO WE DECIDED TO PURSUE
THE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS. WE

00:01:10.700 --> 00:01:13.627
HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
CONSUMER PRODUCTS, BUT THEY'RE

00:01:13.710 --> 00:01:17.127
NOT OUR MAJOR FOCUS.
IT'S MAYBE 80 OVER 20 ON IT'S MAYBE 80

00:01:17.210 --> 00:01:19.327
OVER 20 ON THE ENTERPRISE SIDE.

00:01:19.410 --> 00:01:22.797
AND SO THAT THAT REALLY ALLOWS
US TO PROCEED IN A DIFFERENT

00:01:22.880 --> 00:01:26.137
WAY. RIGHT. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ADS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO FOCUS ON

00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:31.437
SHORT FORM VIDEO. WE DON'T HAVE TO FOCUS
ON MAXIMIZING ENGAGEMENT. INSTEAD, WE

00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:34.307
ACTUALLY JUST FOCUS ON MAKING
OUR MODELS AS SMART AND AS

00:01:34.390 --> 00:01:36.547
CAPABLE AS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT ENTERPRISES ARE

00:01:36.630 --> 00:01:38.817
LOOKING FOR. THEY'RE LOOKING
FOR CAPABILITY. THEY'RE LOOKING

00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:42.287
FOR INTELLIGENCE.
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR OPTIMIZING COMPLEX

00:01:42.370 --> 00:01:46.727
BUSINESS PROCESSES ACROSS
THINGS LIKE FINANCE, CODING,

00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:49.357
PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES,
MANUFACTURING, ENERGY, RIGHT.

00:01:49.440 --> 00:01:52.197
ALL THE THINGS THAT DRIVE
THE ECONOMY. SO WE THINK OF THE

00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:57.137
WORK WE DO AS, AS MOST DIRECTLY
CONNECTED TO DIRECTLY DRIVING

00:01:57.220 --> 00:02:02.437
GDP AND NOT ALL THIS, ALL THIS KIND OF
INDIRECT OR COMPLEX STUFF LIKE MAXIMIZING

00:02:02.520 --> 00:02:06.747
ENGAGEMENT. >> BUT IS THE COMPLEX
STUFF, VIDEO AND IMAGES AND ALL OF

00:02:06.830 --> 00:02:09.007
THAT. AND ULTIMATELY, DO YOU
THINK THAT THOSE MODELS WILL BE

00:02:09.090 --> 00:02:11.017
ABLE TO DO WHAT YOUR MODELS DO?

00:02:11.100 --> 00:02:14.747
>> SO, YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY
THINK THERE'S A DIVERGENCE

00:02:14.830 --> 00:02:18.387
WHERE IF YOU'RE OPTIMIZING,
IF YOU'RE OPTIMIZING FOR FOR

00:02:18.470 --> 00:02:20.627
CONSUMERS, RIGHT, YOU'RE TRYING
TO BE AS ENGAGING AS POSSIBLE.

00:02:20.710 --> 00:02:24.657
YOU'RE TRYING TO BE AS ENTERTAINING AS
POSSIBLE. I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK SOME OF

00:02:24.740 --> 00:02:28.197
THESE OTHER MODELS HAVE ENOUGH
INCENTIVE TO GET SMARTER, HAVE

00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:32.407
ENOUGH INCENTIVE TO BECOME
CAPABLE OF MORE TASKS ACROSS

00:02:32.490 --> 00:02:34.867
THE BOARD, AND WE'VE BEEN
ABLE TO FOCUS ON THAT MORE.

00:02:34.950 --> 00:02:39.207
>> I MEAN, THAT THAT PROBABLY
RESPONDS TO SOME. IT'S PROBABLY

00:02:39.290 --> 00:02:43.517
MUSIC TO THE EARS OF SOME INVESTORS. WE'VE
SPOKEN WITH INVESTORS. SATYA NADELLA WAS

00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:46.687
JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS AT MICROSOFT.
YOU KNOW, HIS POINT

00:02:46.770 --> 00:02:51.157
IS THAT IF WE DON'T SEE
A BROADENING OF MORE THAN JUST

00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:55.297
THE BIG TECH COMPANIES USING THIS AI,
IF WE DON'T SEE A BROADENING OF JUST THE

00:02:55.380 --> 00:02:58.627
WEALTHIEST NATIONS USING IT,
THEN IT IS INDEED A BUBBLE THAT

00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:00.797
THERE'S TOO MUCH INFRASTRUCTURE
THAT'S BEING BUILT UP. BUT

00:03:00.880 --> 00:03:04.037
MAYBE THAT SPEAKS TO WHO'S GOING
TO PAY FOR IT AND WHO'S NOT.

00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.967
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
I THINK ACROSS THE BOARD, WE'RE

00:03:07.050 --> 00:03:09.807
BOTH TRYING TO GROW OUR REVENUE
AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. OUR

00:03:09.890 --> 00:03:15.347
REVENUE GREW FROM 0 IN 2023
0 TO 100 MILLION IN 2024, 100

00:03:15.430 --> 00:03:18.117
MILLION TO 1,000,000,020 25,
1 BILLION TO ALMOST 10 BILLION.

00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:21.287
SO IF WE CAN KEEP THAT CURVE
GOING OR EVEN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO

00:03:21.370 --> 00:03:26.687
IT, THEN THEN YOU KNOW, THE,
THE, THE INVESTMENTS WILL BE

00:03:26.770 --> 00:03:28.927
JUSTIFIED. BUT I THINK YOU
BRING UP ANOTHER POINT THAT'S

00:03:29.010 --> 00:03:32.097
ALSO RELEVANT, WHICH IS,
YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT

00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:35.427
THE TECHNOLOGY DIFFUSES
AND EVERYONE SHARES IN THE BENEFITS.

00:03:35.510 --> 00:03:37.797
THE STARTUPS AT SILICON VALLEY,
YOU KNOW, ADOPT, ADOPT THIS

00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:39.267
TECHNOLOGY ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

00:03:39.350 --> 00:03:42.037
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE HARDER
TO GET INTO LARGE ENTERPRISES,

00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:44.907
ALTHOUGH WE'RE SPENDING
AN INCREASING AMOUNT OF TIME ON GO

00:03:44.990 --> 00:03:47.907
TO MARKET WORK TO TRY AND DRIVE
THAT ENTERPRISE TRANSFORMATION

00:03:47.990 --> 00:03:50.847
AND GET ENTERPRISES TO ADOPT
IT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. BUT

00:03:50.930 --> 00:03:53.087
THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL
KINDS OF COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.

00:03:53.170 --> 00:03:56.957
SO, YOU KNOW, DIFFUSING THIS
TECHNOLOGY ACROSS, NOT JUST THE

00:03:57.040 --> 00:04:00.457
DEVELOPED, BUT BUT THE DEVELOPING WORLD.
I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY

00:04:00.540 --> 00:04:02.657
IMPORTANT. AND, YOU KNOW,
WE'VE DONE WE'RE STARTING TO DO WORK

00:04:02.740 --> 00:04:04.727
WITH FOLKS LIKE THE GATES FOUNDATION.

00:04:04.810 --> 00:04:06.527
>> COULD YOU JUST ESTIMATE. >> TEN YEAR.

00:04:06.610 --> 00:04:09.297
>> REVENUE GROWTH?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S IT'S

00:04:09.380 --> 00:04:13.567
VERY IT'S VERY HARD TO SAY.
ANYTHING I SAY IS GOING TO

00:04:13.650 --> 00:04:18.177
SOUND TOTALLY CRAZY.
BUT IF YOU IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT AI IS

00:04:18.260 --> 00:04:20.707
CAPABLE OF, IF YOU HAVE THESE
MODELS THAT ARE GETTING MORE

00:04:20.790 --> 00:04:24.317
AND MORE CAPABLE ACROSS A WIDE
RANGE OF COGNITIVE TASKS, YOU

00:04:24.400 --> 00:04:27.647
KNOW, YOU LOOK AT ALL LABOR
IN THE ECONOMY, THAT'S SOMETHING

00:04:27.730 --> 00:04:32.187
LIKE $50 TRILLION A YEAR.
SO I COULD EASILY IMAGINE THAT THE

00:04:32.270 --> 00:04:34.857
REVENUE OF THE INDUSTRY OR EVEN
SINGLE COMPANIES, IF IT'S EVEN

00:04:34.940 --> 00:04:39.167
10% OF THAT, COULD BE $5 TRILLION A YEAR.
NOW, THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T SEEN IN

00:04:39.250 --> 00:04:42.297
THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
THAT CREATES ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS

00:04:42.380 --> 00:04:44.197
AS WELL AS CREATING ALL KINDS OF GROWTH.

00:04:44.280 --> 00:04:47.037
>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
THE GROWTH AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S

00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.507
OBVIOUSLY AN EXPECTATION THAT
YOU'LL GO PUBLIC AS POTENTIALLY

00:04:49.590 --> 00:04:51.637
OPEN AI AND OTHERS DO AS WELL.

00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:53.847
HOW MUCH MORE CAPITAL ARE YOU

00:04:53.930 --> 00:04:58.917
GOING TO NEED TO RAISE BETWEEN
NOW AND WHATEVER THAT MOMENT IS?

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:01.687
BECAUSE THERE'S THERE'S SORT
OF THE TECHNOLOGY PIECE ON ONE END

00:05:01.770 --> 00:05:04.617
AND THEN THERE'S THE CAPITAL
RAISING PIECE. I DON'T KNOW IF

00:05:04.700 --> 00:05:08.727
YOU EVER GOT INTO THIS THINKING YOU WERE
GOING TO BE A CAPITAL RAISER ALL DAY LONG.

00:05:08.810 --> 00:05:11.797
>> NOT REALLY. NO. SO, YOU KNOW,
THE WAY I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT

00:05:11.880 --> 00:05:14.827
AND, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT
IT WHEN WE WHEN WE SPOKE AT

00:05:14.910 --> 00:05:18.737
WHEN WE SPOKE AT DEALBOOK IS THERE'S THIS
KIND OF DIFFICULT PROBLEM, THIS CONE OF

00:05:18.820 --> 00:05:20.867
UNCERTAINTY. RIGHT.
WHICH IS THE REVENUE IS GROWING VERY

00:05:20.950 --> 00:05:23.777
FAST. YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY
HOW FAST BECAUSE THE RATE OF,

00:05:23.860 --> 00:05:26.807
OF, OF ENTERPRISE DIFFUSION
IS UNKNOWN. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU

00:05:26.890 --> 00:05:29.947
DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOUR REVENUE
NEXT YEAR IS GOING TO BE 10

00:05:30.030 --> 00:05:33.847
BILLION. NOW, IS IT GOING TO BE
20 BILLION OR IS IT GOING TO BE

00:05:33.930 --> 00:05:37.117
100 BILLION NEXT YEAR. YOU DON'T KNOW. YOU
DON'T KNOW ANYWHERE BETWEEN THAT. AND YET

00:05:37.200 --> 00:05:39.117
YOU HAVE TO BUY THE DATA CENTER.

00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:41.727
>> SO WHAT DO YOU DO. >> 60 TO.

00:05:41.810 --> 00:05:44.857
>> 80%. >> FOR TEN YEARS
STARTING 2024 TO 2028, 130 TO 150?

00:05:44.940 --> 00:05:46.097
>> WHICH MODEL IS TELLING YOU.

00:05:46.180 --> 00:05:50.067
>> THAT THIS IS CHATGPT?
>> OOH, DON'T TELL HIM THAT I.

00:05:50.150 --> 00:05:51.297
>> I THOUGHT THEY'D LOWBALL IT.

00:05:51.380 --> 00:05:55.167
I DON'T. >> KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE CONE OF

00:05:55.250 --> 00:05:59.377
UNCERTAINTY IS THAT WHY. >> SO THERE THERE
ARE A FEW THINGS THAT ARE YOUR BUFFER.

00:05:59.460 --> 00:06:02.247
THE FIRST THING THAT'S YOUR BUFFER IS,
YOU KNOW, THE HIGHER

00:06:02.330 --> 00:06:06.547
YOUR MARGINS ARE, THE MORE YOU
KNOW, THE YOU KNOW, THE MORE

00:06:06.630 --> 00:06:09.987
FAIRWAY YOU HAVE BETWEEN
THE AMOUNT YOU HAVE TO BUY AND THE

00:06:10.070 --> 00:06:13.957
AMOUNT OF REVENUE YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT. SO
ONE OF THE FORTUNATE THINGS ABOUT BEING IN

00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.397
THE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS IS THAT WE HAVE
RELATIVELY HIGHER MARGINS, AND ENTERPRISE

00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.927
SPENDING IS RELATIVELY PREDICTABLE IN
COMPARISON TO CONSUMER SPENDING, WHICH IS

00:06:21.010 --> 00:06:23.837
VERY FICKLE, RIGHT?
WE SEE GOOGLE AND OPENAI FIGHTING IT

00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:27.437
OUT OVER CONSUMER SPENDING.
WE HAVE MORE STABILITY THAN

00:06:27.520 --> 00:06:29.837
ENTERPRISE. THE OTHER THING,
OF COURSE, IS, YOU KNOW, WHILE

00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.737
YOU'RE GROWING, THAT REVENUE
IS IS OF COURSE, IS OF COURSE

00:06:32.820 --> 00:06:36.870
RAISING MONEY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE DO
THAT PERIODICALLY. YOU KNOW, WE RAISE WE R