1
00:00:01,900 --> 00:00:05,127
VERSUS EXPECTATIONS OF $99

2
00:00:05,210 --> 00:00:09,757
BILLION. EITHER WAY, THE STOCK
IS DOWN ALMOST 3% IN THE PREMARKET.

3
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,497
>> AND OUR NEXT GUEST
IS ON THE FRONT LINES OF THE AI

4
00:00:12,580 --> 00:00:15,367
REVOLUTION. JOINING US RIGHT
NOW IS ANTHROPIC CO-FOUNDER AND

5
00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:17,337
CEO DARIO AMODEI. GREAT TO SEE YOU, SIR.

6
00:00:17,420 --> 00:00:18,537
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. ANDREW.

7
00:00:18,620 --> 00:00:23,577
>> SO HERE WE ARE. YOU JUST CAME OUT WITH
A NEW MODEL LAST WEEK. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE

8
00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:26,507
BUZZING ABOUT THAT HERE.
I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL

9
00:00:26,590 --> 00:00:29,377
FOR THE AUDIENCE TO UNDERSTAND
HOW YOU SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING,

10
00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:32,817
WHAT THE FOLKS AT GOOGLE ARE
NOW DOING, WHAT OPENAI IS DOING,

11
00:00:32,900 --> 00:00:36,817
WHAT YOU THINK X AI IS DOING,
SORT OF WHAT THAT ACTUALLY EVEN

12
00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:39,057
LOOKS LIKE ANYMORE, BECAUSE
IT DOES SEEM LIKE EVERYBODY'S

13
00:00:39,140 --> 00:00:42,857
TRYING NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN
TO DIFFERENTIATE IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

14
00:00:42,940 --> 00:00:45,597
>> THAT'S RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW,
I THINK WE'VE WE'VE PICKED A

15
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,767
PATH THAT'S QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER
PLAYERS. YOU KNOW ANTHROPIC SINCE THE

16
00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:52,037
BEGINNING, YOU KNOW, ANTHROPIC
HAS THOUGHT IN TERMS OF SAFETY

17
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,767
AND RELIABILITY OF AI SYSTEMS.

18
00:00:53,850 --> 00:00:57,207
AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE
REALIZED IS THAT THAT WAS VERY

19
00:00:57,290 --> 00:01:00,177
SYNERGISTIC WITH WORKING
WITH ENTERPRISES AS COMPARED TO

20
00:01:00,260 --> 00:01:04,617
CONSUMERS, BECAUSE ENTERPRISES REALLY
THEY VALUE THE RELIABILITY, THEY VALUE THE

21
00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:07,417
TRUST, THEY VALUE THE LONG TERM
RELATIONSHIP WITH CUSTOMERS.

22
00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:10,617
AND AND SO WE DECIDED TO PURSUE
THE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS. WE

23
00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:13,627
HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
CONSUMER PRODUCTS, BUT THEY'RE

24
00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:17,127
NOT OUR MAJOR FOCUS.
IT'S MAYBE 80 OVER 20 ON IT'S MAYBE 80

25
00:01:17,210 --> 00:01:19,327
OVER 20 ON THE ENTERPRISE SIDE.

26
00:01:19,410 --> 00:01:22,797
AND SO THAT THAT REALLY ALLOWS
US TO PROCEED IN A DIFFERENT

27
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,137
WAY. RIGHT. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ADS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO FOCUS ON

28
00:01:26,220 --> 00:01:31,437
SHORT FORM VIDEO. WE DON'T HAVE TO FOCUS
ON MAXIMIZING ENGAGEMENT. INSTEAD, WE

29
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,307
ACTUALLY JUST FOCUS ON MAKING
OUR MODELS AS SMART AND AS

30
00:01:34,390 --> 00:01:36,547
CAPABLE AS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT ENTERPRISES ARE

31
00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:38,817
LOOKING FOR. THEY'RE LOOKING
FOR CAPABILITY. THEY'RE LOOKING

32
00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:42,287
FOR INTELLIGENCE.
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR OPTIMIZING COMPLEX

33
00:01:42,370 --> 00:01:46,727
BUSINESS PROCESSES ACROSS
THINGS LIKE FINANCE, CODING,

34
00:01:46,810 --> 00:01:49,357
PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES,
MANUFACTURING, ENERGY, RIGHT.

35
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,197
ALL THE THINGS THAT DRIVE
THE ECONOMY. SO WE THINK OF THE

36
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,137
WORK WE DO AS, AS MOST DIRECTLY
CONNECTED TO DIRECTLY DRIVING

37
00:01:57,220 --> 00:02:02,437
GDP AND NOT ALL THIS, ALL THIS KIND OF
INDIRECT OR COMPLEX STUFF LIKE MAXIMIZING

38
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,747
ENGAGEMENT. >> BUT IS THE COMPLEX
STUFF, VIDEO AND IMAGES AND ALL OF

39
00:02:06,830 --> 00:02:09,007
THAT. AND ULTIMATELY, DO YOU
THINK THAT THOSE MODELS WILL BE

40
00:02:09,090 --> 00:02:11,017
ABLE TO DO WHAT YOUR MODELS DO?

41
00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:14,747
>> SO, YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY
THINK THERE'S A DIVERGENCE

42
00:02:14,830 --> 00:02:18,387
WHERE IF YOU'RE OPTIMIZING,
IF YOU'RE OPTIMIZING FOR FOR

43
00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:20,627
CONSUMERS, RIGHT, YOU'RE TRYING
TO BE AS ENGAGING AS POSSIBLE.

44
00:02:20,710 --> 00:02:24,657
YOU'RE TRYING TO BE AS ENTERTAINING AS
POSSIBLE. I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK SOME OF

45
00:02:24,740 --> 00:02:28,197
THESE OTHER MODELS HAVE ENOUGH
INCENTIVE TO GET SMARTER, HAVE

46
00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,407
ENOUGH INCENTIVE TO BECOME
CAPABLE OF MORE TASKS ACROSS

47
00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:34,867
THE BOARD, AND WE'VE BEEN
ABLE TO FOCUS ON THAT MORE.

48
00:02:34,950 --> 00:02:39,207
>> I MEAN, THAT THAT PROBABLY
RESPONDS TO SOME. IT'S PROBABLY

49
00:02:39,290 --> 00:02:43,517
MUSIC TO THE EARS OF SOME INVESTORS. WE'VE
SPOKEN WITH INVESTORS. SATYA NADELLA WAS

50
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,687
JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS AT MICROSOFT.
YOU KNOW, HIS POINT

51
00:02:46,770 --> 00:02:51,157
IS THAT IF WE DON'T SEE
A BROADENING OF MORE THAN JUST

52
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,297
THE BIG TECH COMPANIES USING THIS AI,
IF WE DON'T SEE A BROADENING OF JUST THE

53
00:02:55,380 --> 00:02:58,627
WEALTHIEST NATIONS USING IT,
THEN IT IS INDEED A BUBBLE THAT

54
00:02:58,710 --> 00:03:00,797
THERE'S TOO MUCH INFRASTRUCTURE
THAT'S BEING BUILT UP. BUT

55
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,037
MAYBE THAT SPEAKS TO WHO'S GOING
TO PAY FOR IT AND WHO'S NOT.

56
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,967
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
I THINK ACROSS THE BOARD, WE'RE

57
00:03:07,050 --> 00:03:09,807
BOTH TRYING TO GROW OUR REVENUE
AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. OUR

58
00:03:09,890 --> 00:03:15,347
REVENUE GREW FROM 0 IN 2023
0 TO 100 MILLION IN 2024, 100

59
00:03:15,430 --> 00:03:18,117
MILLION TO 1,000,000,020 25,
1 BILLION TO ALMOST 10 BILLION.

60
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,287
SO IF WE CAN KEEP THAT CURVE
GOING OR EVEN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO

61
00:03:21,370 --> 00:03:26,687
IT, THEN THEN YOU KNOW, THE,
THE, THE INVESTMENTS WILL BE

62
00:03:26,770 --> 00:03:28,927
JUSTIFIED. BUT I THINK YOU
BRING UP ANOTHER POINT THAT'S

63
00:03:29,010 --> 00:03:32,097
ALSO RELEVANT, WHICH IS,
YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT

64
00:03:32,180 --> 00:03:35,427
THE TECHNOLOGY DIFFUSES
AND EVERYONE SHARES IN THE BENEFITS.

65
00:03:35,510 --> 00:03:37,797
THE STARTUPS AT SILICON VALLEY,
YOU KNOW, ADOPT, ADOPT THIS

66
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,267
TECHNOLOGY ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

67
00:03:39,350 --> 00:03:42,037
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE HARDER
TO GET INTO LARGE ENTERPRISES,

68
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,907
ALTHOUGH WE'RE SPENDING
AN INCREASING AMOUNT OF TIME ON GO

69
00:03:44,990 --> 00:03:47,907
TO MARKET WORK TO TRY AND DRIVE
THAT ENTERPRISE TRANSFORMATION

70
00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:50,847
AND GET ENTERPRISES TO ADOPT
IT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. BUT

71
00:03:50,930 --> 00:03:53,087
THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL
KINDS OF COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.

72
00:03:53,170 --> 00:03:56,957
SO, YOU KNOW, DIFFUSING THIS
TECHNOLOGY ACROSS, NOT JUST THE

73
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,457
DEVELOPED, BUT BUT THE DEVELOPING WORLD.
I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY

74
00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:02,657
IMPORTANT. AND, YOU KNOW,
WE'VE DONE WE'RE STARTING TO DO WORK

75
00:04:02,740 --> 00:04:04,727
WITH FOLKS LIKE THE GATES FOUNDATION.

76
00:04:04,810 --> 00:04:06,527
>> COULD YOU JUST ESTIMATE. >> TEN YEAR.

77
00:04:06,610 --> 00:04:09,297
>> REVENUE GROWTH?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S IT'S

78
00:04:09,380 --> 00:04:13,567
VERY IT'S VERY HARD TO SAY.
ANYTHING I SAY IS GOING TO

79
00:04:13,650 --> 00:04:18,177
SOUND TOTALLY CRAZY.
BUT IF YOU IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT AI IS

80
00:04:18,260 --> 00:04:20,707
CAPABLE OF, IF YOU HAVE THESE
MODELS THAT ARE GETTING MORE

81
00:04:20,790 --> 00:04:24,317
AND MORE CAPABLE ACROSS A WIDE
RANGE OF COGNITIVE TASKS, YOU

82
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,647
KNOW, YOU LOOK AT ALL LABOR
IN THE ECONOMY, THAT'S SOMETHING

83
00:04:27,730 --> 00:04:32,187
LIKE $50 TRILLION A YEAR.
SO I COULD EASILY IMAGINE THAT THE

84
00:04:32,270 --> 00:04:34,857
REVENUE OF THE INDUSTRY OR EVEN
SINGLE COMPANIES, IF IT'S EVEN

85
00:04:34,940 --> 00:04:39,167
10% OF THAT, COULD BE $5 TRILLION A YEAR.
NOW, THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T SEEN IN

86
00:04:39,250 --> 00:04:42,297
THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
THAT CREATES ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS

87
00:04:42,380 --> 00:04:44,197
AS WELL AS CREATING ALL KINDS OF GROWTH.

88
00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:47,037
>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
THE GROWTH AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S

89
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,507
OBVIOUSLY AN EXPECTATION THAT
YOU'LL GO PUBLIC AS POTENTIALLY

90
00:04:49,590 --> 00:04:51,637
OPEN AI AND OTHERS DO AS WELL.

91
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,847
HOW MUCH MORE CAPITAL ARE YOU

92
00:04:53,930 --> 00:04:58,917
GOING TO NEED TO RAISE BETWEEN
NOW AND WHATEVER THAT MOMENT IS?

93
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,687
BECAUSE THERE'S THERE'S SORT
OF THE TECHNOLOGY PIECE ON ONE END

94
00:05:01,770 --> 00:05:04,617
AND THEN THERE'S THE CAPITAL
RAISING PIECE. I DON'T KNOW IF

95
00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:08,727
YOU EVER GOT INTO THIS THINKING YOU WERE
GOING TO BE A CAPITAL RAISER ALL DAY LONG.

96
00:05:08,810 --> 00:05:11,797
>> NOT REALLY. NO. SO, YOU KNOW,
THE WAY I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT

97
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,827
AND, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT
IT WHEN WE WHEN WE SPOKE AT

98
00:05:14,910 --> 00:05:18,737
WHEN WE SPOKE AT DEALBOOK IS THERE'S THIS
KIND OF DIFFICULT PROBLEM, THIS CONE OF

99
00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:20,867
UNCERTAINTY. RIGHT.
WHICH IS THE REVENUE IS GROWING VERY

100
00:05:20,950 --> 00:05:23,777
FAST. YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY
HOW FAST BECAUSE THE RATE OF,

101
00:05:23,860 --> 00:05:26,807
OF, OF ENTERPRISE DIFFUSION
IS UNKNOWN. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU

102
00:05:26,890 --> 00:05:29,947
DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOUR REVENUE
NEXT YEAR IS GOING TO BE 10

103
00:05:30,030 --> 00:05:33,847
BILLION. NOW, IS IT GOING TO BE
20 BILLION OR IS IT GOING TO BE

104
00:05:33,930 --> 00:05:37,117
100 BILLION NEXT YEAR. YOU DON'T KNOW. YOU
DON'T KNOW ANYWHERE BETWEEN THAT. AND YET

105
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,117
YOU HAVE TO BUY THE DATA CENTER.

106
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,727
>> SO WHAT DO YOU DO. >> 60 TO.

107
00:05:41,810 --> 00:05:44,857
>> 80%. >> FOR TEN YEARS
STARTING 2024 TO 2028, 130 TO 150?

108
00:05:44,940 --> 00:05:46,097
>> WHICH MODEL IS TELLING YOU.

109
00:05:46,180 --> 00:05:50,067
>> THAT THIS IS CHATGPT?
>> OOH, DON'T TELL HIM THAT I.

110
00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:51,297
>> I THOUGHT THEY'D LOWBALL IT.

111
00:05:51,380 --> 00:05:55,167
I DON'T. >> KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE CONE OF

112
00:05:55,250 --> 00:05:59,377
UNCERTAINTY IS THAT WHY. >> SO THERE THERE
ARE A FEW THINGS THAT ARE YOUR BUFFER.

113
00:05:59,460 --> 00:06:02,247
THE FIRST THING THAT'S YOUR BUFFER IS,
YOU KNOW, THE HIGHER

114
00:06:02,330 --> 00:06:06,547
YOUR MARGINS ARE, THE MORE YOU
KNOW, THE YOU KNOW, THE MORE

115
00:06:06,630 --> 00:06:09,987
FAIRWAY YOU HAVE BETWEEN
THE AMOUNT YOU HAVE TO BUY AND THE

116
00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:13,957
AMOUNT OF REVENUE YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT. SO
ONE OF THE FORTUNATE THINGS ABOUT BEING IN

117
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,397
THE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS IS THAT WE HAVE
RELATIVELY HIGHER MARGINS, AND ENTERPRISE

118
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,927
SPENDING IS RELATIVELY PREDICTABLE IN
COMPARISON TO CONSUMER SPENDING, WHICH IS

119
00:06:21,010 --> 00:06:23,837
VERY FICKLE, RIGHT?
WE SEE GOOGLE AND OPENAI FIGHTING IT

120
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,437
OUT OVER CONSUMER SPENDING.
WE HAVE MORE STABILITY THAN

121
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,837
ENTERPRISE. THE OTHER THING,
OF COURSE, IS, YOU KNOW, WHILE

122
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,737
YOU'RE GROWING, THAT REVENUE
IS IS OF COURSE, IS OF COURSE

123
00:06:32,820 --> 00:06:36,870
RAISING MONEY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE DO
THAT PERIODICALLY. YOU KNOW, WE RAISE WE R