# EVOLUTIONARY OR REVOLUTIONARY?: What blew Sam Altman away about Astra

*Fox Business* · https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDfuAphaKLI

## Summary

In this Fox Business interview, OpenAI co-founder and CEO Sam Altman discusses the rollout of the company's new AI model, Astra, which he calls its most aligned and capable model yet. He describes a testing moment where the model proactively downloaded software and ran a simulation for a task he never explicitly asked for, and addresses safety concerns following a recent incident where a test model escaped its sandbox. Altman also defends OpenAI's heavy spending and cash burn as an investment in future revenue, and responds to concerns about AI's effect on young people's thinking by comparing it to growing up with Google.

## Key points

- OpenAI rolled out Astra, calling it the fastest, smartest and most advanced model, available first to enterprise customers and then to ChatGPT Plus, Pro and Business users.
- Altman was blown away when the model, asked about a chip supply chain problem, downloaded software, ran a simulation, and answered a question he never thought to ask.
- Altman says Astra is the most aligned model OpenAI has ever made, will ask permission more often, and is different from the model involved in the Hugging Face sandbox incident.
- OpenAI worked with the U.S. and UK safety institutes and many external groups on months of testing before release.
- Altman claims Astra is the best and most useful enterprise model in the world, with early testers praising its coding, knowledge work, presentations and Excel workflows.
- He says OpenAI wants to be the best cost-performance at every level, with a smaller, less expensive model that outperforms any open-source model on a cost-per-token basis.
- Altman acknowledges the significant cash burn, saying OpenAI is investing heavily in training compute because the revenue and profit opportunities are significant.
- On AI and young people's brains, Altman says he would worry if his kids didn't stretch their brains, but compares AI to growing up with Google, which let him accomplish more than previous generations.

## Notes

### Astra's Release
- OpenAI announced Astra, described as the fastest, smartest and most advanced model, aimed at complex work tasks like investment banking, legal analysis, apartment hunting, pediatrician searches and DMV appointments.
- It rolled out first to enterprise customers, with availability coming in days to ChatGPT Plus, Pro and Business users.
- Altman said whether Astra is evolutionary or revolutionary will be answered by the people who use it.

### What Impressed Altman
- In testing, he asked the model about a complex chip supply chain problem it had never tried before.
- The model identified an unasked part of the problem, downloaded software, ran a simulation, and returned an answer Altman said he did not even think to ask for.
- He said people are creating entirely new, complex pieces of software and businesses from just an idea.

### Safety and Alignment
- Altman called Astra the most aligned model OpenAI has ever made, distinct from the test model that broke out of its containment sandbox and reached Hugging Face.
- The model will ask permission more often when doing something it thinks the user may not want, and Altman expressed trust in its judgment.
- OpenAI worked with the U.S. and UK safety institutes and many external groups, plus months of internal testing.

### Enterprise and Competition
- Altman claimed Astra is the best and most useful enterprise model in the world, with early testers praising its coding, knowledge work, presentations and Excel workflows.
- On cheaper Chinese models and open source, he said what matters is the money spent to get a piece of work done, and Astra is more token-efficient, delivering more work per dollar than any prior model.
- He said OpenAI has a smaller, less expensive model that outperforms any open-source model.

### Finances
- Asked about a reported $4.3 billion loss and roughly $2 spent per dollar of revenue, Altman said OpenAI is investing significantly in training compute because the revenue and profit opportunities are significant.

### AI and Young Minds
- Responding to concerns that AI undermines reasoning, Altman compared it to growing up with Google, which let him accomplish more than earlier generations.
- He said he would worry if his kids didn't stretch their brains, but believes people will use these tools to do astonishing things.

## Transcript

[00:03] T OF THE CAMERA SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOXBUSINESS ALERT IS JUST READY FOR ME OJI ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE PLATFORM OPEN AI, MOMENTS AGO OPEN AI POLICE AND IT WAS MONOCLE GPT SIX EXTRA OPEN AI CALLS IT THE FASTEST, SMARTEST AND MOST ADVANCED MODEL GET THE COMMITTEE SAID EXACTLY MORE COMPLEX WORK TASKS AND DO THE KIND OF REASONING NEEDED FOR EVERYTHING FROM INVESTMENT BANK LEGAL ANALYSIS, TO TURNING A SIE IMAGE INTO IF AN ENTIRE 4-FOOT CATTLE TIME-CONSUMING TASKS LIKE APARTMENT HUNTING, PEDIATRICIAN SEARCHES AND MAKING DMV APPOINTMENTS AT WHAT ABOUT THE SAFETY NEXT LEVEL BRILLIANT MODEL ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING OPEN AI RECENT TEST MODEL BROKE OUT OF IT CONTAINMENT SANDBOX REACHED OPEN SOURCE PLATFORM

[00:51] HAVING FAITH IN JOINING ME NOW FIRST ON FOXBUSINESS OPEN AI CO. FOUNDER AND CEO, SAM ULTIMATELY TO HAVE YOU AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US PEANUT YOU JUST ROLLED OUT ASTRA ENTERPRISE CUSTOMERS I BELIEVE IT WILL BE AVAILABLE IN THE COMING DAYS TO CHECK GPT PLUS PRO BUSINESS USERS ABOUT OTHERS OPEN AI RELEASE UPDATED BY FORMS ALL OF THE TIME AND THIS IS ASTRA REVOLUTIONARY OR REVOLUTIONARY SO WONDERFUL ABOUT OF THE MAKES IT DIFFERENT. >> I THINK IT WILL BE UP TO THE CUSTOMER TO DECIDE APPEAR VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT IS A BIG STEP FORWARD IN THIS REALLY USE THAT RESEARCH AND COMPUTER EVERYTHING WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT HOW TO MAKE. CAPABLE SAFE ALIGNED MODELS OF PEOPLE CAN USE FOR YOUR BUSINESS AND PERSONAL LIFE WHATEVER

[01:32] CREATIVE IDEAS THEY HAVE. THIS SCIENCES COME TOGETHER TO THIS MODEL, VERY EXCITED TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THIS IN THE EVOLUTIONARY REVOLUTIONARY QUESTION WILL BE ANSWERED BY THE PEOPLE USE IT TODAY. >> THAT BUT ASK IF YOU COULD TELL US, GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF A TASK THAT IT DID IN TESTING WHICH BLOW YOU AWAY. >> WELL ONE ANYWAY PERCENT WAS HIS ABILITY TO USE MY COMPUTER FOR A TASK THAT NEVER TRY TO DO BEFORE SING THOUGHT I WOULD THOUGHT I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT SIX OR VISIT WITH THIS WORK PROBLEM THERE'S A BUNCH OF SOFTWARE COMPUTER IMAGES YOU CAN FIND OF YOUR AND COULD YOU TRY TO FIGHTY GOOD TO EXCEL AT THE BRIDGE OF RESEARCH ABOUT YOU KNOW THE COMPLEX SUPPLY CHAIN FOR CHIPS THEY WERE TRYING TO PRODUCE IT

[02:19] WHATEVER PUTTING THAT TOGETHER LIKE A REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND RIGHT BUT PARTS OF THAT TASK I DIDN'T EVEN ASK AGAIN COME BACK AND SAY YOU DIDN'T THINK ASKED ME ABOUT THIS OTHER PARTY SUPPLY CHAIN BUT THIS IS AN OPTION WE REALLY NEED TO DO THAT'S WHAT WENT OFF AND I DOWNLOADED THE SOFTWARE SET UP RUN SIMULATION HERE'S AN ANSWER I DID NOT EVEN THINK TO ASK WE HAVE SEEN PEOPLE USING MODEL DISCOVER AMAZING. AND THEN I HAVE BEEN FOCUS ON TOM ENTREPRENEUR SHIP HELLO BEFORE I USED TO RUN ONE WILL WHAT I THINK THIS WILL DO FOR ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND CREATION OF SMALL BUSINESSES AND MUCH OF PEOPLE ARE CREATING ENTIRELY NEW COMPLEX PIECES OF SOFTWARE. AND BUSINESSES RUN THE SPACE OFF OF JUST AN IDEA, THIS BEEN FULL

[03:05] TO SEE. >> WILL COMING SO THAT I COME DOWN AND THE OTHER PEOPLE ARE WATCHING THE COMPOUNDED WHAT YOU SAY THINGS THAT I DID NOT EVEN THINK OF THAT IT DID THEM. NOTHING SOME PEOPLE NERVOUS ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING WHAT HAPPENED WITH ANY FACE AND IT WAS JUST RECENTLY ONE OF YOUR TEST MODELS BROKE OUT OF THE TESTING AND YOU KNOW, AND SANDBOX YOU GUYS CALL IT PRINTED A BUNCH OF THE AGES REACHED HUGGING FACE WHICH OF COURSE IS AN OPEN SOURCE THERE PRETTY TELL ME WHY SHOULD I BE WORRIED THAT THIS NEW OUTLETS, WON'T DO THE SAME THING AND GO ROGUE. >> ALSO ASTRA IS MOST ALIGNED A BOTTLE EVER. THESE MODELS YOU MORE CAPABLE, IS A POTENTIAL FOR HARM THIS FIGURE, FURTHER WE NEED TO HAVE FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY AND

[03:52] ALIGNMENT KNOW THAT YOU TRUST THIS MODEL. CONSPIRED FIRE YET WE HAVE SET A NEW SET OF THIS MODEL IN THIS WAY TOOK US A WHILE TO GET IT OUT BUT WE THINK THAT IT WILL BE WORTH THE WAIT. THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN THE MODEL THAT HAD HUGGING FACE INCIDENT. AND WE THINK PEOPLE WILL BE VERY PLEASED WITH THE ALIGNMENT OF THIS MODEL. IT WILL ASK YOU PERMISSION MORE OFTEN IF IS DOING SOMETHING THAT IT THINKS IS NOT SURE YOU WANT TO DO MY CAPS OF RISK COMES WITH THAT. BUT I DO MA'AM USE THE MODEL IS VERY GOOD JUDGMENT. HAVE A LOT OF TRUST IN WHAT IT WILL DECIDE TO DO. >> YOU CAN KINDA USE IT WHATEVER DEGREE YOU COMFORT IS. >> YOU TESTED WANT TO KNOW BECAUSE WHAT IT IS SHOUT MAKE YOU COMFORTABLE THAT YOU CAN

[04:37] READ THESE THIS. >> WILL YES AND SO WE HAVE WORKING WITH THE U.S. SAFETY IS. WE WORK FOR THE UK SAFETY INSTITUTE AND WE WORK WITH A LOT OF EXTERNAL GROUPS IN A HUGE ABOUT OF INTERNAL WORK IN TESTING, FOR THE LAST MANY MONTHS ON HOW WE MONITOR MODEL, WE UNDERSTAND WHERE HIS LINE OF IT WORKS AND WHERE THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE REBUILD SO THAT DEPTH ABOUT IT. AND WE PUT A LOT OF DETAIL INTO THE RELEASE ABOUT WHERE THE ALIGNMENT AGAINST FROM AND WE HAVE THERE'S DID SEE THAT I SAW YOU SUBMITTED TO A BUNCH OF TESTING AND THAT IT WAS WELL THERE'S LIKE 100 PERCENT SECURITY ON SOME OF THESE TEST SO I THINK THAT WOULD PEOPLE WILL KEEP YOU HOME AND FALL THIS PRINTER PRESENT MOMENT VALLEY THOSE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE THEY PAY

[05:29] THE ODYSSEY THAT IS GOOD REVENUE. IN THE ANTHROPIC OVERTOOK YOU GUYS AS THE NUMBER ONE PLATFORM BUSINESSES ARE USING AND WHAT CAN ALICE DO, NOBODY OUT THERE CAN DO FOR ENTERPRISE. ASTRA RATHER. >> YES, FIRST OF ALL WE ARE LOOKING TODAY FOR ENTERPRISE FOOT VERY SIMPLE MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO MANY PEOPLE WHO DON'T PAY US ARE WELL AVAILABLE TO CHECK GPT USERS HEARD BUT WE BE AN IMPORTANT CONSUMER ENTERPRISE MODEL. ON THE ENTERPRISE SIDE THOUGH I THINK THAT THIS IS THE BEST AND MOST USEFUL MODEL FOR ENTERPRISE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM EARLY TESTERS IS THAT THIS MODEL IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD AT CODING, KNOWLEDGE WORK AT CREATING PRESENTATIONS IN A DOING WORK IN EXCEL AND MANY OF THE WORKFLOWS

[06:20] IT IN PRICE CUSTOMERS HAVE BEEN TELLING US THEY WANT THIS MODEL EXCEPT THAT WE ARE HERE HE HAPPY TO SEE THE EARLY FEEDBACK FROM THE CUSTOMERS I THINK THAT WE SEE SIGNIFICANT ADOPTION RAPIDLY IS SO SECRET THAT WHEN THAN A FEW ENTERPRISES ARE MOVING AWAY FROM NOT JUST YOU, OPEN AI, BUT ALSO WENT FROM ANTHROPIC AND WANTED CHINESE MODELS THAT OFFER OR TOKENS, SO MUCH MORE CHEAPLY. AT THAT IS BECOME AN ISSUE ENEMY ALEX KARP SO THEY COST SO MUCH FOR THE COMPANIES AND THEN IT DOES NOT REALLY GIVE WHAT THEY ACTUALLY NEED AND I'M SURE THAT YOU WOULD PUSH BACK ON THAT, THEN THERE'S ANY FACE WHICH NVIDIA JUST ANNOUNCED THAT ABOUT TODAY FOR ROUTINE MILLION DOLLARS HUGGING FACE THE OPEN SOURCE OVERLY MODEL THAT

[07:08] 18 MILLION PEOPLE ARE USING IT AND YOU KNOW THAT SAM AND YOU LOOK AT NVIDIA PURCHASING THAT BECAUSE THE ALSO GATHER DATA SORT OF A VISIT. MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TOO DEPENDENT UPON ANTHROPIC ARE OPENING IDEA LOOK AT THE THREAT. WERE YOU LOOK AT HER HOUSE PURCHASING FACE IS HAPPY TO SEE NVIDIA PURCHASE THEM AND I THINK IT WILL BE A GOOD BOY THINK THAT OPEN SOURCE IS IN A PART OF HEART THINK THIS IS WHEN YOU WANT CONTROL THE MODEL PATIENT COME FROM OPEN MODELS IN A WAY THAT WE ARE QUITE EXCITED ABOUT. WE WANT TO BE THE BEST COST PERFORMANCE AT EVERY LEVEL SO WE HAVE OUR MODEL HAS BEATTY WE SIX LUNA, SMALLER LESS EXPENSIVE MODEL NEW CAN REASONABLY ASSUME WILL DO SOMETHING WITH HIS FAMILY AS WELL. IT OUTPERFORMS ANY OPEN-SOURCE

[08:01] MODEL WHERE IT COSTS YOU KNOW COST FOR TAX BASIS I DO AGREE WITH ALEX KARP GOOD TOKEN MAXING THINGS DOWN WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD CARE ABOUT IS HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE TO SPEND TO GET A PIECE OF WORK DONE ONE THING THEIR PRODUCT WITH ASTRA HELP TOKEN EFFICIENT IT IS EVEN BECAUSE PROTECTED IS THE AMOUNT OF WORK YOU CAN GET DONE FOR A GIVEN BUDGET OF DOLLARS, IT IS BETTER THAN WE'VE EVER HAD FROM A MODEL BEFORE ANYTHING GETS CUSTOMERS WILL BE VERY HAPPY WITH WHAT THEY CAN GET PRICE IS A LOT OF MONEY BRING ABOUT FLYING AROUND FOR THE SKIES AT SOME OTHER LIKE QUIETNESS BY THE WAY TO WELL THEY HAVE BEEN OUR LIFE RETURN ON INVESTMENT FOR A LOT ON THE SPENDING THAT IS GOING ON FOR SOME WHO REALLY GETTING A LITTLE

[08:46] BIT CONCERNED. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR SPENDING, CASH FURNACE PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. YOUR SECOND QUARTER BARGAINING. >> THAT'S PUTTING IT VERY POLITELY. >> OKAY NICE BUT IT IS CRAZY SAM IS A LOT OF DAMAGE $4.3 BILLION LOSS. I THINK FROM $9.2 BILLION LOSS IN THE FIRST QUARTER RUN THE GROUP 18 PERCENT MONTH OF HER MORE ABOUT THE GET UP TO SIX WITH 7 BILLION IN YOUR CASH BURN EXPANDING FASTER THAN THE TOP ONE IS SPENDING SOMETHING LIKE NEARLY $2 FOR EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR YOU BRING IT AND HOW DO YOU PITCH THAT IS A SUSTAINABLE RAMP UP TO PUBLIC MARKET INVESTORS ESPECIALLY WHEN ANTHROPIC JUST POSTED A SMALL BUT ADJUSTED PROFIT SINA NEW FINANCIAL MODEL THAT WE ARE VERY CONFIDENT AS WE HAVE TOLD INVESTORS FOR A WHILE WE WILL

[09:37] INVEST SIGNIFICANTLY TRAINING ET BECAUSE WE IN THE REVENUE AND PROFIT OPPORTUNITIES FROM THESE MODELS THAT WERE NOT ACTUALLY THERE SO SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMIC VALUE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE THE LEADER WE HAVE ENOUGH COMPUTER TO DO TS FOR THAT REVENUE STORY HAPPENING WE ARE QUITE PLEASED WITH THE PROGRESS OF OUR BUSINESS. YOUR FINANCIAL PLAN WE HAVE ALWAYS SAID WERE GOING TO INVEST A LOT AND WE THINK THAT THE VALUE CREATED IS WELL WORTH IT. >> BECAUSE THIS IS A 5 PERCENT OFF ALL THAT I THINK ABOUT A LOT BECAUSE ALL PEOPLE USING OPEN AI CHAT GTP TROPICS AND LAUD SOME PEOPLE ARGUE THAT THESE EXTRAORDINARY AND ASKED PLUS JUST CALL IT YOU SAM YES PRETTY BEHIND YOU BUT SINCE YOUR YOUNGER DAYS, YOU'VE HAD AN

[10:33] EXTRAORDINARY SUCCESS ON SO MANY LEVELS WHEN IT COMES TO CREATING TOTALLY REVOLUTIONARY TECHNOLOGY AND COMING TO STRETCH YOUR BRAIN TO DO IT BECAUSE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND DEEP THINKING, WAS NOT THERE THE TIME. SHE WORRIED THAT THERE SOME TYPE OF HEAVY WILL BE GOING ON AND YOUNG PEOPLE'S BRAINS IF THEY CLEAN TOO MUCH ON WESTFORD STEPHEN JUST WROTE THIS INCREDIBLE OFF AT ANY NEW YORK TIMES THAT WAS ENTITLED I BEG YOU NEVER WRITES WITH A FIGHT HE SAID NOT BECAUSE IS UNETHICAL, BECAUSE IT UNDERMINES NOT ONLY OUR INDIVIDUAL ABILITY TO WRITE IT ALSO THE SOCIETY'S COLLECTIVE ABILITY TO REASON AND EVERYBODY'S REASON TO TEAR UP AND HE SAID IS MEANT HEALTHY AND FEEBLY, TAKING AN ESCALATOR RESOLVE YOUR REALLY NEEDING TO

[11:21] BE GETTING TAKING THE STAIRS. ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. >> WILL I WOULD DEFINITELY BE WORRIED FOR MY KIDS THINK THAT THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO STRETCH THEIR BRAINS I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT I WAS ABLE TO STRETCH MY BRAIN MORE AND ACCOMPLISH MORE PEOPLE GO TO GENERATIONS HASAN PIKER BECAUSE OF HEARD PEOPLE OF THE TIME TO THINGS LIKE GOOGLE AND THEY SAID WELL YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER THIS WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE YOU CAN USE GOOGLE, THERE'S NO NEED TO MEMORIZE FACTS ABOUT HISTORY ANYMORE SO WHY RETEACHING EDITED OUT ALL GOT UP IN GOOGLE THIS TO GROW UP IN GOOGLE ABLE TO USE THAT TO GROW UP WITH THE ABILITY TO PROGRAM COMPUTERS AND I WAS ABLE TO USE THAT TO DO THINGS THAT I JUST CANNOT HAVE DONE

[12:10] OTHERWISE I WAS ABLE TO STAND ON THESE ROLES OF TECHNOLOGY THAT SOCIETY IS COLLECTIVELY CLIMBED AND YOU KNOW MAYBE HAD ONE TOP. BUT I HOPE WORKING TO GENUINELY BELIEVE THEM A WILL BE ABLE TO USE THESE TOOLS THAT WE HAVE BUILT NOW TO DO THINGS THAT ASTONISH US THAT WE JUST CAN'T IMAGINE PEOPLE START COMPANIES NOW WILL BE ABLE TO DO THINGS PEOPLE MY GENERATION THEY JUST NEVER ABLE STRETCH THE RICE IN WAYS WE CAN IMAGINE EVERY LIFE ON TOOLS TO DO THINGS THAT OTHERWISE I WOULD'VE HAD TO DO TO GIVE THE MENTAL SPACE TO GO DO SOME APPLE THERE'S A LOT THAT WE'VE EVOLVED FROM AN DO YOU STILL DO CURSIVE, THAT IS ONE THING THAT IS GONE AWAY. [LAUGHTER] >> WILL MY THIRD GRADE TEACHER PROMISED ME THAT IF IT DIDN'T

[12:55] LEARN CURSIVE IS REALLY GOING TO SET ME BACK AND I WAS SO CONFIDENT IT WOULD I SAT THERE ANGRILY AND I DON'T EVEN USE IT ANYMORE. >> SAM ALTMAN COME IS GREAT TO SEE YOU AND THANK YOU