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All right, everybody.

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We have a very special guest. Listen.

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We love all of you. This is a This is
the most amazing room of innovators in

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America. Uh we love you all.
It's a dinner of

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equals, but there can only be one number
one. Uh we do We're Forbes. We do rank

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things.

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Uh and the Forbes 250 uh innovators the

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number one innovator uh

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and it wasn't that close, to be honest,

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was Elon Musk. So,

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uh and we are very honored to have
him join us. Elon, are you here?

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>> Uh yeah. >> Oh, we're
glad that you're glad that

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you're here. Thank you. There he is.

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>> [applause] >> AND YOU DO
LIKE RANKING THINGS. IT'S TRUE.

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>> HA, we do. We're good at it. Uh and and
again, first congratulations. It was not

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that close. There were a lot of There
were a lot of battles in a lot of

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places, but number one was not in doubt.

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Uh but anyway,
this is a room of your people.

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Yeah, you Well deserved
This is a room of your

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people. I will say they were asking
the first question and we want we want to

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get really nerdy about innovation. The
first question though that everybody was

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asking is, all right, ask Elon. We had

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one of the great ca- cases in the world

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of innovation over the last few weeks.

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What's Elon's verdict
on the verdict today?

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>> What do you mean on me? >> Uh I
that that that um the case in Oakland.

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>> Yes. Oh, oh, what that verdict?

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>> [laughter]

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>> It's like, what are you doing?

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Um yeah, I guess just

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Well, they they basically just

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decided that the uh

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staff would not pay things for fast.

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They were not actually

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whether depending on whether um you you
they've been unjustly enriched or the

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charity could be dissolved, which I

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think is obviously the case. Um So, um

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But, I I do think it's somewhat
of a dubious situation because

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um you know, what happened was in

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by degrees. I mean, it wasn't it wasn't
stolen all at once, but stolen one piece

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at a time. And, um

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so, we have to say, like, well,
was there really even a basis for legal

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action before um you know,
problems to dissolve? And, I

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don't think there is, actually.

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Um so, you know,

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but like, the first step I don't label
at this point, but the first step into

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adding a for-profit thing had a cap

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for-profit and was at a small scale.

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Um and also, that uh

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all stock would revert to the charity
upon the eventual of artificial general

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intelligence. Uh that that
clause is now being removed.

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So, it it will continue to be
a for-profit after developing artificial

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general intelligence. Um that removal was
quite recent, just in the last few weeks.

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Um so, um

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it is this point is it it is it is a
whatever $800 billion for-profit company

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somehow from a non-profit.
And, I I think this is a dangerous

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precedent to set because if
if it means that someone can

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um start take money as a non-profit,

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convert that to a for-profit
when it's successful, um

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it undermines all
charitable giving in America.

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>> It certainly would uh you'd see a lot
of people starting to start non-profits

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with a path towards for-profit. Uh you
you >> Exactly. What do you got to lose?

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>> Right, exactly. What um you said on X
you're appealing optimistic about the

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appeal? >> Yeah, I think we we
necessarily have to appeal um

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because uh it this this will
this become precedent,

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you know, which people can actually then

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essentially loot charities and use this

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case as a as a basis for doing so.

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Um which I think would be a lot.

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>> Let's uh let's talk innovation.
Your your title we have up here, I mean,

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again, you're the CEO of four major
companies, even those companies have

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major companies within those companies.

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Uh was this was this part
of the plan or did it just happen?

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>> More or less just happened.
I mean, it well, let's just say that

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when I was in college, I wanted
to be part of um things that would

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uh change the world in a significant way.

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Um I didn't originally
think I wanted to be

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doing things in AI because AI was
somewhat of a double-edged sword, but I

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I I did want to um
accelerate the transition to a

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sustainable energy economy, which
is the sort of electric cars, solar, and

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batteries. Um and uh

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you know, I think I think some some
kind of brain machine interface uh

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that can give you cybernetic

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superpowers, I think is probably good.

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Um it could, you know, help people
that have brain or spine injuries,

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uh you know, restore enable people who
never spoken for years to speak again,

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which is which we've done. Um

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get people eyesight who have lost uh

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both eyes or the optic nerve uh or maybe

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have never even seen at all, blind from

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birth. Um by direct interface to the uh

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the um optical sensors in the brain,
you you can actually

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restore eyesight or give people eyesight
that they've never had before. And you

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can enable people to walk
again, which I think is

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profound. I mean, these are kind
of Jesus-level things, you know, like uh

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let's say like when technologies are
hitting like Jesus-level miracles, you

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know, like, "Yeah, that's pretty good."

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>> How do you How do you um um How do
you Again, it's asked a lot, but it's it's

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fun to ask it to you. How do you
prioritize? I mean, cuz you're right,

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you've got you've got multiple deities
here. If it's if these are Jesus level

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solutions, which one
which one do you serve?

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>> Jesus level, you're like,
"Okay, that's pretty good." Um So,

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um And if And if SpaceX is about

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um making life multi-planetary

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expanding consciousness to the stars.

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Um And hopefully, we will make
a fundamental breakthrough later

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this year, which is having the the the
first a fully reusable uh orbital rocket.

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Um

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which is necessary in order to do

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transport enough tonnage uh to the moon

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or Mars to create a self uh a self-growing

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city. Um basically, to extend

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civilization to to to other planets. Um

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I mean, I I think probably you need to
move a rough order of magnitude of about a

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million tons to the moon or to Mars

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uh to create enough of an
of an industrial base to have

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have the civilization there be um

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self-growing, meaning like

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the acid test being if the

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resupply ships from Earth stop coming

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for any reason, um does it does the

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the civilization on the moon or Mars
continue to grow or does it die out?

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Um and um I think I
think that's that's a a

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fundamental branching point
in the future of civilization.

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Um Are Are we a multi-planet
space-faring civilization or are we um

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stuck on one planet forever? Um and um

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I do want to emphasize I mean,
like, being a multi-planet

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civilization is doesn't mean like we
leave Earth and go somewhere else cuz

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that would just be a single
planet civilization somewhere else.

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>> Right. On a lesser place, probably.

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>> Yeah, and a tougher place to to live

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than than here by far.

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Um Earth is extremely easy and

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comfortable compared to the moon, Mars,

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or pretty much anywhere else.
Um but you know, I think I think at some

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point we want to be a space
flying civilization. We want to

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Um be out there among the stars and we and

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and and be Yeah. Um

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>> So, these are again, these are huge,
huge things you're dealing with. So,

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when you try to figure out
when you get up every morning,

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is it just kind of like a buffet or is it
Do you have kind of a plan on what

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you're going to what you're going
to focus on? Cuz that's something a lot of

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innovators here have to deal
with on a much smaller scale.

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>> Well, uh I guess I don't really uh

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I don't really get up and say, "Hey,
what should I innovate today?" you know,

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type of thing. Um it's it's really just um

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I've both building the technologies
necessary to uh extend life beyond Earth.

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Um There's you know, there's this
there's the Starlink internet which is

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rebuilding the entire internet in space.

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Um But better, you know,
I guess that's kind of

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pretty cool. Um There's

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Yeah, but the Optimus robot that we're
developing at Tesla, the self-driving

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cars, um solar power at scale, you know.

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>> Big stuff. A lot of Again, they're
all pointing a lot of them are pointing to

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becoming an interplanetary
Is there a Is there a time when you

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could see again putting these companies
together and just running one big

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company? I mean, some of you have a a

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but do you envision that?
Would and would that help you in terms

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of making these things mesh?

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>> Um Well, I I think
it's difficult for me to

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to sort of comment on that,
you know, because uh

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you know, there's publicly
traded companies and >> Yeah.

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>> one is publicly traded and one is,
you know, about to be. So,

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uh it would be like difficult to you know.

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>> No no problem.
We'll we'll we'll move on. Although

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we we did uh the you know, the reports

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today that that you might follow your

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SpaceX S-1 this week. Is that that a go?

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>> I'm not I think I'm not allowed
to comment on on these things.

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>> Seriously? >> That's like a quiet
period or something to that effect.

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>> That That is the beauty That is the
beauty of uh going public or being in

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that quiet period. Um do you have a

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favorite of all your We know we you love
all you love all your your children, all

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your companies. Is there a favorite?

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among your companies? >> Well,
no. I mean, I'm not really going

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to say that's like what's your favorite
kid type of thing, you know. Um

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I think you can't really
s- say that, you know. Uh

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>> What um If it's not
your favorite company, who's

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your favorite role model
as an innovator historically?

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>> Well, I guess uh
you know, I'm obviously

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a big fan of Nikola Tesla since uh named

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the company after him. Um

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Um but also I I also like uh you know.

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Um

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I don't know. Um Edison is great, too.

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Um Like some people like don't like don't
like Edison really cuz he just did some

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pretty impressive stuff. Um And um

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Like General Electric
is like Edison's company. Um

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That's I mean

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I certainly admire the great scientists,
engineers, but I I like anyone. I mean,

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you know,

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Ben Franklin, uh

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Shakespeare, Newton, uh Einstein,
you know, >> We We did

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>> suspects. >> We did We
surveyed uh historians, and so

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you were number one on the 250 living
list. We did a 250 historical, and the

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top three were Edison, you said,
Franklin, uh and Henry Ford. So, you

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you've uh you know, you you're We
should have had you as a judge. Uh

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>> Ford was actually more awesome than
people realize cuz I mean, he basically

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invented um mass manufacturing of

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of complex objects. Like, people didn't
really know how to do that uh before uh

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before Ford. >> Yes. >> Um And like,
Ford actually created the

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automotive industry uh
of of Earth, really. Um

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And uh cuz cuz he he
he pretty much started

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what became General Motors,
and then he kind of got I don't know,

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kicked out of that or something,
and then started uh Ford Motor Company.

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Um Uh

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And and really developed mass
manufacturing of complex objects. Um

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It's quite quite a tricky thing, and then
everyone just pretty much copied him.

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>> What's uh what's amazing if you look
at the historical list, and even the

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current list, is just how much uh
innovation comes out of America, and how

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much of the things that everyone takes
for granted came out of America. Do you

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have a Do you have a favorite innovator
who's living today? Besides, you know,

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anybody in this room, or anybody uh uh
Who are Who are some of your favorite

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entrepreneurs, innovators you admire
who uh who are your contemporaries now?

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>> Well, uh hmm.
I mean, I guess uh I don't I

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I mean, I don't really think
about these things that much, but I

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Uh well, I mean, I guess uh you know,

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Jensen Huang at Nvidia is like
doing pretty great in terms of

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uh inventing, you know,
the developing AI computers. Um

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uh And um

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>> Well, you mostly you
mentioned Jensen and uh

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Listen, you were early

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uh warning about the dangers of AI, but

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also you've been uh you know, a somebody
who's helping pioneer a lot of great

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things that come out of AI. Right now,

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where are you on the scale
of how being petrified or excited?

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>> Well, I think I'm like so
simultaneously both, honestly. It's like

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uh I mean, at this this point, like like

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like when I go to sleep, there's like
some AI breakthrough. When I wake up,

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there's some AI breakthrough.
And by lunchtime, there's another AI

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breakthrough. >> Yeah. >> So, um it

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it's like a head spinner at this point.

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Um it you know, it's it's pretty obvious

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that we we're going to have AI
that is vastly smarter than humans. Um

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And um

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And already in some ways it already is.

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Um I

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it seems like AI unequivocally smarter

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than humans in every way, including in

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innovation, is probably

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not more than a year
or two away, it would seem.

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Um

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That's uh >> It's It's
heavy to think about.

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>> I know. Jesus, this is this is kind
of worrying. I hope it's nice to us, you

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know. >> [laughter] >> What um

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Um right, you know, when you look at me
about all the things we've asked him to

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do what what's something that you have
a better position that to see this than

248
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anybody pretty much what's
going to happen in 5 years

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that you're seeing that maybe a lot
of people aren't seeing that's going to

250
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blow people's minds that
will be doable in 5 years.

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>> In 5 years.

252
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We'll have probably so
5 years being say 2031

253
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um. I think.

254
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Digital intelligence will exceed
the sum of all human intelligence.

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That there will be in 5 years.

256
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Probably. There might be a.

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Let's say at least a hundred million
humanoid robots but maybe a billion.

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Yeah. >> All right the.

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>> Let me and and and I I I would
predict that the economy is probably.

260
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Twice its current size. In.

261
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Five maybe six years.
Seven at five to seven years.

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Um because you're going to hit
a doubling period you know where it's it's

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where the the economic output is

264
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increasing so so fast that you know plus

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minus a few years you're
you'll see giant changes.

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Um. >> What um

267
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,957
what you know a couple follow-up
questions on that when do you see the

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first data center in space again you
have a better vision on that than pretty

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much anybody you know
you're again if when we're

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going to Mars it's you clearly going to be
leading the way when when do we get a

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colony on the moon when do we get a

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colony on Mars three-pronged question

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data center in space.

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Humans on the moon
humans on Mars, timeline.

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>> Yeah, certainly space is much easier
than people may think. I mean, SpaceX at

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this point has 10,000
satellites in orbit right now.

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Um and um

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and in the future with Starship we'll be

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launching over 10,000

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um communication satellites per year.

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Uh each one of which is much more
capable than our current satellites. So,

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you can expect, you know,

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that probably uh

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10 to 100 times more communications
capability than than is than currently

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exists from space. Um

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But but that that will pale
in comparison to the tonnage of uh AI

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satellites. So, I mean,
it's it's always helpful to use

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the physics tools
of thinking in the limit.

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If say if you think in the limit, what
is the most amount of uh AI compute you

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could possibly bring bring to bear?

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Um and the the way to access

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power that's far beyond anything on

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Earth is in space. Um so,
these are so so humbling

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ways to maybe frame the problem
and see how tiny we are.

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We Here on Earth we are like microbes
on a dust mote compared to the sun.

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Um so,

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we All of human civilization
currently uses less than

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a trillionth of the energy of the
say the power emitted by the sun.

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Much less than a trillionth. All human
energy counted as generously as you

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could possibly imagine is much less
than a trillionth of the sun's energy.

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Um so,

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that means if you were to increase

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civilizational the energy harnessed

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by a million, you would still be much
less than a millionth of the sun's

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energy harnessed. Um So,

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an another way to think about it is cuz
people sometimes say, "What about this

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this form of of power generation or
that form of power generation?" I'm like,

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"Everything is irrelevant
compared to the sun." Um the

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sun is 99.8% of mass in the solar

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system. If If all mass that was not the

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sun was was burnt uh and you
extracted the absolute

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maximum amount of energy from all
mass that is not the sun, the amount of

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energy produced by the sun would still
round out to 100% of energy produced in

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the solar system. And then
if you teleported two more

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Jupiters from other somehow teleported
two more Jupiters into our solar system

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and burnt them, too,

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um the sun would still be 100% of power

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uh rounding up. So, really and

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everything is just extremely
tiny compared to the sun.

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So, that that whole when you go to

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space, um if you want if you want to to

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climb the Kardashev Kardashev scale
in any meaningful way whatsoever, you

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have to go to space. Um

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and and and uh you know,
our rough estimate is

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that you could probably do
a terawatt a year of AI-powered

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uh you know, solar-powered AI satellites
um from from launched from Earth.

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Um that would require,
let's say, something

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00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,797
like 10 million tons
a year of payload to orbit

329
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at 100 kW per ton.
And that'd be a terawatt per year. The

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average power usage in the United
States is half a terawatt.

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So, that would mean you'd
be launching twice the um

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00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,397
twice the amount of AI power than than
the entire electricity can consumption

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00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,677
in the United States. per year.

334
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,637
But this is this is this is we're we're
not breaking any physics here. This is

335
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,357
this is all achievable. Um Now,
if you want to take that up uh

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several more orders of magnitude, then
the the thing to do is to build a base

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on the moon.

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And construct a mass driver.

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Um and build the uh solar
panels and radiators on the

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moon. Chips you could probably bring
from Earth, but build those on the moon,

341
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too. Um

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And uh and and that would let enable you

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to do about a pedawatt per year

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into of solar-powered AI.
Um and I'm not sure how much AI we need

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up there, but uh that's a lot.

346
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>> That is a lot. >> Yeah. >> What um

347
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>> It would be vastly
greater than the than

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00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,277
the Earth's economy. Um

349
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:47,077
Earth's economy would be yeah, really
inconsequential by comparison with that.

350
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,277
>> No, that's a that's
a vision of abundance, for sure.

351
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,797
Uh I know you you've had a quite a busy
day and you you always have a busy day,

352
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,797
so we don't we want to be mindful
of your time. So, I just have two last

353
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,597
questions. One, uh there must
be I mean, again, you keep

354
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,517
on coming up with these big ideas and you
keep executing them. What's a What's

355
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,157
a big idea in your head
that you haven't deployed yet?

356
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,320
Uh that you'd like to.

357
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,717
>> Well, I you know, I did I did say
for the longest time that people ought to

358
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build build tunnels, and then everyone
thought I was joking. And then I was

359
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,477
like, "Fine, well, let's just create
a company, the Boring Company, to build

360
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,997
tunnels." Um cuz this is an obvious way

361
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,757
to um reduce traffic to zero by going 3D

362
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,157
with your transport system.
Just as we go 3D with the buildings,

363
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,877
um it's obviously uh logical to it

364
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,237
logical to expect that you you uh won't

365
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,917
have traffic if you have
buildings that are 3D and and a

366
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,077
transport system that is 2D.
And everyone tries to go in and out of the

367
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,237
3D building at the same time.
Um but if you have a transport network

368
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,477
that is three-dimensional with tunnels
going all over the place, um then um

369
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,997
you can address any
arbitrary level of traffic.

370
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,157
Um now, I encourage other people
to start tunneling companies cuz the the

371
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,437
Boring Company is the only one, as far as
I can tell that's taking this seriously.

372
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,037
>> to be the only boring company, right?

373
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:11,557
So, >> Yeah, honestly, there's like a lot
of opportunity, um, you know, in tunnels.

374
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,717
Um, and >> [laughter] >> there really is.

375
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,037
Um, and it's quite hard work building
these things. So, I would I hope that

376
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:20,717
others people do it, too. >> Okay.

377
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,397
>> Um, and I guess
there's there's probably a

378
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,157
lot of opportunity in, um,
synthetic medicine. So, um,

379
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,717
with like these days,
you can basically create uh custom,

380
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,917
you know, RNA. Uh,

381
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,917
and I think I think like
the the sort of we're going from

382
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,357
uh from a situation
where medicine has been

383
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,877
analog, where we kind of like just find
drugs kind of by accident most of the

384
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,357
time. Um, like finding sticks in the
forest that, you know, seem like it this

385
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,837
thing this stick seems like a useful club,
um, type of thing. It's it's it's

386
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,997
quite primitive how we found
medication in the past. Um,

387
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,597
now, but once you can since since we can
now construct synthetic RNA, um, you can

388
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,957
effectively think of medicine
the future of medicine as being digital.

389
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,877
Like, so it's if you if you just know

390
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,157
what to program into that synthetic RNA
strand, um, you can basically, I think,

391
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,157
cure almost anything. >> Hm. Hm.

392
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,477
All right. Challenge to the room,
digital medicine and 3D transportation.

393
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,037
Let's go. Let's give Elon some
competition. All right, last question.

394
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:29,957
>> Electric aircraft, there's probably
an opportunity there. I think there's a

395
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,757
startups in that field.
>> What kind of what kind of aircraft?

396
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,077
>> Electric aircraft. >> Yeah, electric
aircraft. I'm sure that's coming. Um,

397
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,437
when we when we get together and you
know, hopefully, you know, who knows

398
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,117
with the way technology is going, some
of us will be here in another 250 years

399
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,157
for the Forbes, you know,
500 celebration innovation. What would you

400
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,077
want your Yeah, and again, you're you're
still building it, but when you think

401
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,877
about your legacy, and I know it's
early, but what what would you what

402
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,037
would be make you feel good when people
look back the way you talked about

403
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:06,200
Edison and Franklin? What would what
would you like people to say about you?

404
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,480
>> You played a useful role
in the advancement of civilization.

405
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,197
>> Play with end. >> [applause] >> I I

406
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,277
>> And I think by the way again, this
is the most incredible room in America

407
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,637
today. I think that's true for all of us.
So, let's take inspiration. You all

408
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,077
are great, but he's number one.

409
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,357
Uh Elon Musk, thank you
for joining us here at this

410
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,597
>> For all of humanity,
that's what the AI will say.

411
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,757
>> [laughter] >> Fair. Thank you again.
Thank you for your time and

412
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,877
all that. And thank you. Now, we're
going to have a We're going to let you

413
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,797
go and we're going to bring
the other award winners up. But again,

414
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,000
Elon Musk, again, thank you for your
time and all all your good thoughts.