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So I want to circle back to another
controversial topic which you know over

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the last several decades you
mentioned this we've kind of pursued

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de-industrialization financialization.

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Uh we've also pursued mass immigration
and you know that the view from the tech

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world has almost always been we need
more of the smartest people to come here

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and build with us. A lot of my smartest
friends are immigrants and they've built

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great things. Uh but at the same time
some of this mass immigration has really

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affected the working class in certain
ways that's that's maybe not great. I

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know your views have evolved on this topic
like what is the right immigration

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policy and how does it tie into what what
you're seeing for the next few decades.

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>> Yeah. So separate it you know
the classic split between so-called highkl

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and lowkilled immigration. Um so on
the low skill immigration side it's it's

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it's it's the it's the it's actually the
the a lot of the AI doomers kind of have

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this split personality where they're
like AI is going to eliminate all the

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jobs and we need to import another 100
million people from the third world as

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fast as possible or we won't have
any you So, so, so there's a bit of a

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there's a bit of a a weird kind
of disconnect I think in the logic and the

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logic on that. Um, you know, look,
the country went through this before, you

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know, as I said earlier,
the there was very high immigration

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between like 1870, 1920, you know,
they closed the gates in 1925. Um, and you

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know, look, 1925 to 1977, you could
argue it would have grown faster with

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higher immigration, but they grew a lot
faster than we've grown, right? And so I

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like I do think there is this like if if
you have advanced if you have AI, if you

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have advanced high productivity growth,
if you have lots of robots running

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around, you know, I do think there
is a question of exactly how much low

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lowkilled labor you need in the country,
which which which bears on a lot of the

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the immigration debates. Um the high
skilled immigration debate is is the one

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that's coming. Um and it's not really
top of mind right now, but it's the one

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that's coming. And the reason it's
coming is because I mean look, we you

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know, we need we need talent of course
to build all the AI, build all the

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robots, and do all these things. and and
you see this in, you know, the debates

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around the universities, you know,
with the move that the administration is

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doing on on foreign students and so forth.
And there's this kind of very

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one-sided argument that's happening
on that right now, which is you kind of

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need unlimited, you know, you need
limited high skill immigration from the

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rest of the world or you're not going
to have like the smart people building

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stuff here. U and I would say, you know,
look, like Joe, you know, our portfolio

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at our firm is like the United Nations.

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It's founders from 100 countries.
You know, I I benefited enormously by

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working in a place characterized by very
high high skilled immigration. Um the

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the thing that's really coming to roots
though is sort of this this fundamental

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issue which kind of nobody wants to talk
about but I've started to talk about

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which is it's it's the intersection of

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DEI and and immigration that has really
I think warped I think our perceptions

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on high immigration over the last 50
years um which basic and you and you see

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this by the way in like this you just
you look at like the foreign enrollment

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rates of the top universities which went
from you know like two or three or 4% 50

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years ago to whatever 27 or 30 or 50
>> Columbia is over half right 70% or

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whatever. ever it is. And so there's
been this massive transformation in who

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gets educated. Um, and then there's been
this massive transformation of who gets

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admitted through de through affirmative
action and then you know as we now know

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at DEI um and and again this goes
straight to the political divide in the

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country which is if you're a family you
know if you if you're a family if you're

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parents of a kid where I grew up um and
you've got a smart kid um and you think

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you're going to get them into you know
a top university in this country like you

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are fooling yourself like there is no
chance right um because they've got

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their well [laughter] the top
universities basically the top

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universities have basically admissions
program that looks like this it's like

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DEI for white people um which is the
donors and all the fake sports right um

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and so >> a lot of fake sports >>
like I have a friend who got into Yale

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to play varsity croquet um [laughter]
which let me just say is not a sport

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that we played a lot in rural Wisconsin
and then you've got you know DEI

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generally for for the other groups
and then you've got this you got this

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immigration influx um and as a
consequence of that like it is nearly

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impossible uh for somebody coming from
like a Midwestern or rural background or

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southern background um to get into
the US by the way this doesn't just affect

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white people this also So obviously
now we now see how it's affecting Jewish

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people. Um it it but it actually also
affects African-Americans uh in a very

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interesting way which is actually uh
both the universities and the corporate

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employers are literally this is true.

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They're literally they literally import
Africans so that they don't have to hire

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African-Americans um because they they
they still count as black. Um there was

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a great story the thing that woke me
up to this there was a story in the New

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York Times 20 years ago about Harvard's
this is a Harvard admits you know black

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students but which ones back when
the New York Times could talk about these

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things honestly. Um, and it quoted
actually Henry Lewis Gates and Lonnie

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Guineer at the time uh at Harvard
Law School basically observing that

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African-Americans were not benefiting
from affir affirmative action because

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Harvard had figured out that they could
import Nigerians. Um, right. And again,

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it's just like great, the Nigerians are
great, they're very smart, they're very

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productive, it's fantastic, you know,
all other things being equal, you'd like

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to have as many of them in your country,
but like is that really why we're doing,

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you know, the set aside programs? Um and
so like there is this really fundamental

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question which is like what level
of untapped talent exists in this country

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that a combination of DEI
and immigration have basically cut out of

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the loop for the last 50 years. Um and how
long can we have this you know story

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to everybody in the Midwest and the
South that says you know sorry you're

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you know because of historical
oppression your kids are so

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>> this this is the angry populism people
are worried about that's affecting our

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politics. >> Yeah.
This is what I've really come to

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this is what I've really come
to appreciate from growing up in the one

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place and now being in the other place,
which is if you if you're if you're in

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the if you're in the center of the
country, you're just like, "Wow, these

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people really hate me. They really hate
my kids." Like they're really out to get

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me. Um and and like that that that's

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just such a toxic that's just such a

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toxic dynamic. Like that that's a very
very bad thing for that to continue.