WEBVTT 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.037 Good morning everyone. How's it going? 00:00:09.120 --> 00:00:12.557 Everybody excited to be here? 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:16.077 >> Okay, for those of you that were in the Somebody texted me, they called it the 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:19.277 How I AI sauna last night, the party we 00:00:19.360 --> 00:00:21.837 had. I told you all you need to hype me 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:23.437 up this morning because I was out way 00:00:23.520 --> 00:00:26.317 past my bedtime, which is 8:15. I've got 00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:30.717 a little baby. Um but I am here prepared 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:34.077 to do the thing that I do. So last year, 00:00:34.160 --> 00:00:36.237 last year I came here and I said product 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:38.317 management is dead. I said that because 00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:43.517 as a product leader I like to make these big grand statements and then be proved 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:47.677 completely wrong in the market. Just keeps me really honest. So product 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:51.837 management is obviously not dead. There are so many amazing product leaders, 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:56.237 product managers, product executives here in this room. But who's with me 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:57.837 that between the last time we had 00:00:57.920 --> 00:00:59.997 Lenny's summit and now product 00:01:00.080 --> 00:01:03.277 management is completely different. 00:01:03.360 --> 00:01:05.117 Okay, got some hands. It's really 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.917 different. And so last year I came for 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.397 PMS that didn't work. Let's do it again. 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:14.477 This year I'm coming for the road map. 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:18.957 The Yeah, you're you're welcome. OKR's 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:23.107 next and then my job is over. 00:01:23.190 --> 00:01:26.077 >> [laughter] >> So the road map has been the defining 00:01:26.160 --> 00:01:28.637 artifact of our industry, of our 00:01:28.720 --> 00:01:31.517 careers. It's supposed to tell us and 00:01:31.600 --> 00:01:34.477 our teams where we're going, what's 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:38.557 next, and what matters. And I have been 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.077 in product for over two decades. And I 00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:45.277 believe, fingers crossed, a lot of us in 00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:47.757 our room in this room are about to write 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.717 our last road map. Before I go into why 00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:53.597 I think that, I want to tell you all I 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:56.157 have a confession. 00:01:56.240 --> 00:01:59.277 I am shipping more than ever. I have 00:01:59.360 --> 00:02:03.037 access to the most intelligent coding 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.517 agents in the world. I have the best 00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:09.197 developer tools anybody can ask for. I 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:13.277 have super smart models. I've got 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:17.517 customer context via API, via CLI, via 00:02:17.600 --> 00:02:21.997 MCP. all the letters I have. I write so 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.077 many skills. And y'all, I counted 00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:28.317 yesterday. I have 40 Grock bots. I can 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.637 build almost anything. And here is my 00:02:32.720 --> 00:02:35.197 true true confession. 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:37.677 I am out of good ideas, y'all. I'm like 00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:42.237 straight up out of good ideas of things 00:02:42.320 --> 00:02:45.037 to build. I'm out. I can build. I just 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.277 don't think any of it's a good idea. So, 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:50.317 and and I'm not saying I don't have 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:52.397 plausible requests. It's not that I'm 00:02:52.480 --> 00:02:54.637 saying I don't have things I could 00:02:54.720 --> 00:02:58.557 build. It's just that execution has 00:02:58.640 --> 00:03:02.637 outrun my ability to discover 00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:06.317 meaningful, meaty, my favorite word, 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:07.997 commercializable 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.997 products in the market. And this is a 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:14.477 very different situation that I have 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:17.997 been in than before. You know, it used 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:22.317 to be that engineering capacity was the 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:24.077 scarce resource. That was like I mean 00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:26.717 that's kind of why we exist honestly is 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:29.517 like engineering capacity used to be the 00:03:29.600 --> 00:03:33.037 really scarce resource. We had way more 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.477 ideas than people and we had way more 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:39.437 demand than our ability to deliver 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:42.637 against that demand. And the product 00:03:42.720 --> 00:03:46.557 manager, the products leaders job was to 00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:49.757 prioritize all those ideas, sequence 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.717 them, and then spend like all our time 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.357 in meetings and in Slack and in 00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:59.357 spreadsheets saying no. Saying no. PMs 00:03:59.440 --> 00:04:03.197 should say no more. we should have cut lines. It was like very aggressive like 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:06.797 here's my cut line for the quarter. This is my priority list. This is my stack 00:04:06.880 --> 00:04:09.677 rank. And while the PM's job was to say 00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:12.397 no, it felt like engineering's job was 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:15.037 to say like no, not like that. Not with 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:20.157 all those features, not with perfect architecture. We can only do this much. 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:23.757 And then it seemed like design's job was say to like no, wait for us, like 00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:26.957 please. And so everybody's like just 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:31.517 constrained on this like precious engineering capacity. And so things got 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:35.517 narrow narrow narrowed down till you only shipped a little bit of your road 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:37.637 map. And now I feel like I have more 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:40.717 [clears throat] execution capacity than 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:43.757 like true conviction about what to 00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:47.917 build. So my bottleneck has moved from 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:52.477 like building what what can I build to 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.277 believing like what do I believe is 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:59.517 actually worth building. And look, I am 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:03.837 like the biggest token maxer on the planet. I'm like PR's up 3x. Like do it 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:07.677 all. Ship, ship, ship. Agents everywhere. I don't need a PM. I don't 00:05:07.760 --> 00:05:10.317 need any specs. But like I think this 00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:12.557 gap between our building capacity and 00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:15.997 like true in our heart of hearts 00:05:16.080 --> 00:05:18.237 conviction like does any of this code 00:05:18.320 --> 00:05:22.077 matter is a much bigger problem than any 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:24.717 of us are willing to admit. I think 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:26.557 we're all getting a lot of pressure from 00:05:26.640 --> 00:05:29.277 the board, from the timeline, from each 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:31.917 other, from our teams, from our bosses 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:36.957 to move faster, to get leverage with AI, to like really lean in and show we're AI 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:38.477 native. We can build in this new way. 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:40.157 Claire said product management is dead. 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:41.917 She showed all these scary circles. She 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:47.197 said like ship to the moon. Do it, do it, do it. But like I do think none of 00:05:47.280 --> 00:05:48.877 us are I know this is a question I asked 00:05:48.960 --> 00:05:52.077 one who's who's shipping more than ever 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:56.397 in the last year at their companies whose revenue is going up proportionate 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.637 with the amount of PRs 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:03.517 like that's the fundamental problem we're facing here and so I'm going to 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:07.117 tell a story and like bring this home for you this like I have no good ideas 00:06:07.200 --> 00:06:10.797 and I don't know if they matter. Um so I had this idea for this thing called the 00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:15.357 product graph for chat PRD. It's like a It's a real product for product managers 00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:17.917 idea and it's not special because everybody's done it. But it's like we're 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:21.837 going to suck in everything a company knows about customers, about what you're 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:23.517 working on, blah blah blah blah blah. 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:27.437 We're going to parse it. We're going to like slap, you know, opus on it and then 00:06:27.520 --> 00:06:30.957 it's all going to be available through agents and it's going to be awesome. 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:33.757 It's going to make you be able to make these decisions better and build better 00:06:33.840 --> 00:06:37.997 products and of course write better PRDs. And so I built it. I built this 00:06:38.080 --> 00:06:39.917 like insights engine. I built this like 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.477 very fancy semantic product graph. It 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.277 like generates this auto wiki. Agents 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:47.917 can consume it. It was like almost a 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.157 oneshot. Not quite, but it was a pretty 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:53.677 close oneshot. It worked. It looks 00:06:53.760 --> 00:06:55.597 pretty good. It was like feature 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.077 forfeature matching competitors in the 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.677 market. And I kind of just like every 00:07:01.760 --> 00:07:05.997 time I would build it, I would be like, "This just belongs in the trash. It 00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:09.277 belongs in the trash. All this work, all this amazing product belongs in the 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:12.397 trash." And why? Because to me it was 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:15.837 competitive, it wasn't differentiated. 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.517 And so, you know, even though I had built this thing that like obviously had 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:21.677 a market, people would probably want it, 00:07:21.760 --> 00:07:23.837 customers said it was interesting, like 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.637 in my core, I felt like it wasn't worth 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:31.197 my customers attention. I like the ROI was really shaky to me. I wasn't 00:07:31.280 --> 00:07:34.477 convinced on the interface. I was like, should this it it still had a web 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.997 interface. I was like, should it be agent first? Is this the right thing? I 00:07:38.080 --> 00:07:40.317 wanted to build something surprising 00:07:40.400 --> 00:07:43.277 that competitors couldn't even imagine. 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.797 And my big problem was that these tokens 00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:49.277 and this like road map that I had 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.477 executed my bet, but it didn't really 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.437 test or validate or strengthen my 00:07:55.520 --> 00:07:57.517 conviction. Meanwhile, I'm sitting on 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.637 all this kind of like code to nowhere. I 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.437 kept shipping more than ever. So, 00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:06.157 customer fixes were like automated. They 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:10.557 would come in, they go to like one of my bots, and then they get fixed. Goals 00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:14.717 were like obliterating tech debt. I mean, I re rearchite rearchitected chat 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:19.277 purity 70 times because I could. Um, we stopped tracking issues. We're like, we 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:20.797 don't need issue tracking anymore. We're 00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:23.597 just going to ship PRs. This AI factory 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.117 like manifested and started running 00:08:27.200 --> 00:08:29.437 itself. It did the thing that we all 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:33.037 want it to do. It's magical. And here's 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.677 the secret. 00:08:35.760 --> 00:08:38.237 I'm not sure any of it mattered. Like 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.277 I'm not yet convinced that any of that 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:46.797 mattered. And that really got me thinking. It got me thinking about what 00:08:46.880 --> 00:08:50.477 is product management? What is the purpose of building software? How do we 00:08:50.560 --> 00:08:52.797 make decisions? How do we prioritize? 00:08:52.880 --> 00:08:55.677 How do we allocate all these tokens? 00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:58.397 And I just kept going back to this idea 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.357 of the road map. road maps made sense 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:06.157 under engineering scarcity. They like 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:11.037 laid out your strategy. They told you what features were you going to build. 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:15.117 We had this thing called effort which was like more than me like voice noting 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:16.797 you know Devon saying can you please 00:09:16.880 --> 00:09:19.837 build this and we thought a lot about 00:09:19.920 --> 00:09:24.317 sequencing and milestones and MVPs and 00:09:24.400 --> 00:09:27.357 scarcity helped us theoretically let's 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.357 be honest it helped us theoretically 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.317 filter out our bad ideas because the 00:09:32.400 --> 00:09:35.277 bottom of the list just never shipped. 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.877 It never could. There were not enough engineers. There was not enough 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.997 conviction across the organization. and said this like below the cut that's what 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.157 we called it below the cut line never 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:48.797 shipped and now we can ship all our bad 00:09:48.880 --> 00:09:51.837 ideas like congratulations 00:09:51.920 --> 00:09:56.077 to us cheap execution I think still 00:09:56.160 --> 00:09:59.277 needs judgment and I think we're seeing 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:03.677 this moment where the road map plus like limitless or feeling like limitless 00:10:03.760 --> 00:10:06.237 execution capacity is creating three 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:08.717 traps that I want to warn you about the 00:10:08.800 --> 00:10:12.877 first is the backlog track. So this is 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:15.597 if you have a backlog, AI will build it. 00:10:15.680 --> 00:10:18.397 They will build every single thing. It 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.957 will build every single thing on your list. And so I hear a lot about like, 00:10:23.040 --> 00:10:27.037 you know, I we're burned through our backlog. It's because all you have to do 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.837 is slashgo build the backlog and it gets 00:10:29.920 --> 00:10:35.197 done. But the problem is clearing out requests or ideas does not mean 00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:38.717 meaningful progress against your business or even meaningful progress 00:10:38.800 --> 00:10:44.077 against a customer problem. The second thing is the parity trap. This is 00:10:44.160 --> 00:10:45.677 something I really felt in that story 00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:48.237 about the product graph. All your 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:51.837 competitors are copying each other and 00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:56.397 they all are talking to the same customers and they're all sucking in the 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:00.637 same insights and they're all arriving at the same obvious conclusion and 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.037 building the same obvious product with 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.677 the same obvious like run the taste skill. Run impeccable. Run whatever. 00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:10.637 Make it look good. Get rid of the m dashes. Get rid of the borders. Like 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:13.597 we're all doing Can you tell I took max? 00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:15.997 Yeah. So we're all doing the exact same 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.637 thing. And so this like parody trap 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:21.197 where we used to have this like really 00:11:21.280 --> 00:11:25.757 interesting dynamic with competitors now it feels like it's evening out and again 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:29.117 like this question about what Moes are and what differentiators are is a big 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:31.437 one in my mind. And then the final kind 00:11:31.520 --> 00:11:34.877 of trap I see is the churn trap which is 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.077 we ship something, we see noise and pick 00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:40.877 up or not because we can always ship 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:43.357 something else, we abandon it and then 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.477 we never really learn or compound on top 00:11:46.560 --> 00:11:49.277 of what we're shipping. And so all of 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.997 these things from the inside feel very 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.157 productive. Like my backlog's going 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:56.637 down, my competitive features are going 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:59.517 up. like we're shipping more than ever, 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:02.317 but what I think this does is it just 00:12:02.400 --> 00:12:05.997 like accelerates our path to mid. And 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:10.557 that's the thing I want to warn you about. And so this brings me to 00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:12.157 something that I'm really observing, 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:15.677 which is this concept of road map zero. 00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:19.997 I don't mean like we've gone through the road map, although some people truly 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.237 have road map zero, nothing on the road 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.317 map anymore. What I mean is that every 00:12:26.400 --> 00:12:29.597 visible feature becomes both plausible 00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:33.677 and buildable. You don't have like an empty backlog. That's not what I'm 00:12:33.760 --> 00:12:37.037 talking about. It's just like everything on your backlog you can kind of do. And 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:38.797 when everything on your backlog you can 00:12:38.880 --> 00:12:41.357 kind of do, what is the point of the 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.157 backlog? I think buildability and effort 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.237 stop being like this meaningful proxy 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.357 for what matters and prioritization 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.317 again kind of like why PMs exist as 00:12:52.400 --> 00:12:56.717 we've practiced it I think stops being strategy right like we've been doing 00:12:56.800 --> 00:12:58.957 these like rice prioritizations but when 00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:01.677 like many of those letters mean nothing 00:13:01.760 --> 00:13:04.557 anymore especially effort like why are 00:13:04.640 --> 00:13:06.797 we still pretending like prioritization 00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:08.957 is the right way to think about our 00:13:09.040 --> 00:13:14.397 products and this is why I think you know, road maps are over. They're dead. 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.997 It's because I think they're really dangerous right now. I think an AI 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.877 factory plus an old road map will get 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:25.677 you to those three traps at machine speed. They will get you there fast 00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:27.357 because this factory really can't 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.397 distinguish a truly consequential bet 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.917 from an idea. And AI will make the 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:38.397 consequences of this weak judgment show up at your front door faster. And so 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:43.117 your bad ideas will become your problems quicker than ever. And so I don't think 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:44.877 the road map is the right thing. I think 00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:47.517 the right thing is to ask yourself what 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:51.117 do I believe strongly enough to go out 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:55.677 and try and prove because the remaining constraint is not 00:13:55.760 --> 00:13:59.917 code. It's not building. It's not features. It is truth. It is like on the 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.637 ground with our customers truth. AI 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:07.437 cannot take an untested assumption into fact. No matter how many adversarial 00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:09.517 reviews you do, and I know you're doing 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.717 them, you need real customers. You need 00:14:12.800 --> 00:14:15.757 real data. You need repeated tests. And 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.837 then you need a very unique point of 00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:21.757 view and a very high unique quality bar. 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:25.117 And what AI allows us to do is make 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:28.077 faster contact with reality, which is 00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:29.357 great. We all want to make faster 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:32.237 contact with reality. But that means you 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:35.597 have a higher obligation to encounter 00:14:35.680 --> 00:14:39.677 reality in your minds. You have to both get into the market and accept what it 00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:43.677 is telling you. And this is going to feel really retro to people like, you 00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:46.797 know, me and they're a little older because we've been saying outcomes over 00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:49.277 outputs all the time, but yet this like 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.997 central artifact, the road map still 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:55.597 lists features and dates. And again, 00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:57.597 engineering scarcity once made that 00:14:57.680 --> 00:15:02.717 workable. But like I think road map zero makes those features and dates very 00:15:02.800 --> 00:15:06.957 dangerous for the reasons that I outlined. This feature list I say 00:15:07.040 --> 00:15:09.277 becomes ammunition for a very powerful 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.757 slob cannon. And so what I think we need 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:14.157 to do is move upstream from what we need 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.557 to build to what we actually need to 00:15:16.640 --> 00:15:18.797 prove. And so here's how I would think 00:15:18.880 --> 00:15:21.757 about what we do instead of a road map. 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:26.157 First we build our convictions. So what is the direction that we want to go and 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.037 what do we believe the future looks like? Not in 3 months, 6 months, 9 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:32.957 months, in in a year, in two years. 00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:35.677 Where do we think all of this is going? 00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:40.157 I do think you need to determine what evidence would show you that your 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.757 conviction is true. And you need to define that upfront. What would I need 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:47.757 to see to prove that I'm doing the right thing? And what would I need to see to 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:51.437 stop? You do need a factory. So I do love the factory. I'm saying that's 00:15:51.520 --> 00:15:54.877 dangerous, but I love something dangerous. You need your factory. You 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.677 need the ability to build quickly to 00:15:57.760 --> 00:16:00.477 intersect reality very very fast. So I'm 00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:05.117 not saying get rid of it. I'm saying put it at the right place in the process. 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.437 And then you need to allocate. You need 00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:09.597 to go through that cycle. And when you 00:16:09.680 --> 00:16:14.557 get into reality, you need to allocate your investment, your conviction, your 00:16:14.640 --> 00:16:18.717 effort, your tokens in the right direction. And what's interesting I 00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:22.157 think most about this new world we're about to move into is I think you need 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.237 to have durable convictions but disposable features. And I was talking 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:27.517 to Mara who is going to come on the 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.917 stage later and she's like but Claire 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.397 enterprises love feature road maps and 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:38.637 I'm going to talk to some folks at the end of the day who have changed a lot of 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:43.437 features around on us a lot of products around us and we as consumers at least 00:16:43.520 --> 00:16:47.277 some of us have accepted that level of churn. And so I think we're going to get 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:52.717 into this place where customers, where teams are able to shift to, do I bet on 00:16:52.800 --> 00:16:55.517 these convictions? Do I bet on this team? Do I bet on this space? Do I bet 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:59.917 on this vision? And I understand features need to come and go. They might 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.397 be unique to me. They might be unique to a market. And so what you want to see is 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:09.757 clear progress against your convictions, but zero ego about your solutions. And 00:17:09.840 --> 00:17:12.317 what this would look like, I think there's two ways this could go. You 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.517 could be you have to be stubborn here with your durable convictions. But 00:17:15.600 --> 00:17:17.917 there's good stubborn and bad stubborn. 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.997 Good stubborn is you like stay with the 00:17:20.080 --> 00:17:23.277 problem. You revise the solution. You 00:17:23.360 --> 00:17:27.197 know, you hold true what's going to happen even if the flavor of the week is 00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:31.597 trending. Bad stubborn is because you have tokens. You just move the goalpost. 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:34.557 You're like, "Ah, we're close. We'll just ship again and ship again and ship 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:39.197 again." And so I want you to think about what are my durable convictions? Am I 00:17:39.280 --> 00:17:42.157 being good stubborn? Am I being bad stubborn? And then how do you actually 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.717 build into your system the ability to 00:17:44.800 --> 00:17:47.837 absorb disposable features and keeping 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.517 rigor around quality and learning? And 00:17:51.600 --> 00:17:53.757 this is really scary, especially when it 00:17:53.840 --> 00:17:55.757 hits customers. But I think we're moving 00:17:55.840 --> 00:17:58.797 to a place where not everything we ship 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:03.277 is a promise. And I I don't has anybody feeling come on. Like has anybody 00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:07.197 shipped some thank you right in the middle? Like you ship things and you're 00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:11.997 like this is a hypo this is like truly an experiment and I might get it wrong 00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:15.117 or the market might move underneath me or the technology might change, you 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.877 know, tremendously. And so I do think we have to think about this idea of like 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.957 not every ship is a process, a promise. 00:18:21.040 --> 00:18:25.197 And we used to do these road maps and I would like go hand on heart to go to 00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:27.277 market and I'd be like I swear on my 00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:29.917 children this feature will ship with 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.557 these specific things on this specific 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.837 date. You can definitely sell it in the contract like you know and make these 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.877 promises. And now I think we have to really think how we communicate 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:44.477 internally, how we communicate with customers. And so I think there's going 00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:46.637 to be everything from a probe. This is 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.317 like kind of a bet. We're going to 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:52.237 explore a little bit. Um to a more 00:18:52.320 --> 00:18:56.717 durable kind of experiment against your conviction. I think this is something we 00:18:56.800 --> 00:19:00.237 really believe in. We're going to stick with it till we get it right. And then 00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:04.477 there are promises. Promises are I have shipped something. Customers can rely on 00:19:04.560 --> 00:19:07.117 it. They can build their customers on it. We really believe and we'll keep 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.277 compounding here. And I think you need to be honest about what your commitment 00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:15.837 is on any feature. I think that's almost the most um helpful lens on the new road 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:19.997 map is like how strong is our conviction here and how durable is this promise 00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:24.717 versus like how hard is it to build and what is our estimated impact and while 00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:29.037 we do this I you know again you need to remember code is abundant customer trust 00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:32.637 is not. So going back to that product graph, that feature that I built over 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:34.877 and over and over again until I felt 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:39.677 conviction, it was feature flagged off because I just knew that as soon as I 00:19:39.760 --> 00:19:42.557 put this in front of a customer, they were going to build on it. They were 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.037 going to use it. And if I didn't have conviction that it was right, I was 00:19:45.120 --> 00:19:47.837 really going to burn that customer trust. And that's something I thought 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:52.957 about really deeply as I was rolling out this feature. So I do still think you 00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:54.717 need a road map, but I think that 00:19:54.800 --> 00:19:58.077 roadmap needs to be more about ambition. 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.077 I think it needs to be bigger. I don't 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.757 want to see onesie twoosies on your road 00:20:01.840 --> 00:20:05.277 map. I want to see the future you 00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:10.317 believe should exist. I want to see what 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.557 evidence shows that we're making 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:17.437 progress. What would prove us wrong? And then what earns more time tokens and 00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:19.437 customer attention. And I want to go 00:20:19.520 --> 00:20:21.917 back to ambition because I think the 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:25.997 last 12 to 18 months as you know it was 00:20:26.080 --> 00:20:29.757 like you know the year of our claude and we were shipping everything and PMs were 00:20:29.840 --> 00:20:31.757 writing PRs and it was prototypes 00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:34.397 everywhere. I really think we're in a 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.837 velocity game. We're in a inflect PRs 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:42.237 straight up velocity game. If I can get prototypes to customers faster they can 00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:45.997 give me feedback faster. If I can hand things to customers or to engineering 00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:50.077 faster they can do PRs faster. my agents will take care of tech debt. My agents 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:53.757 will take care of features. I think we're really in the last 12 to 18 months 00:20:53.840 --> 00:20:58.317 building up our muscle for true inflected velocity. I don't think that's 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.397 the game next year. I don't think that's 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:01.917 the game we should be playing for next 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.437 year. I think next year is the ambition 00:21:05.520 --> 00:21:07.917 game. I think you should think like what 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.197 huge swings can I make? What experiments 00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:13.757 can I run in two weeks, three weeks that 00:21:13.840 --> 00:21:16.317 would have taken us a year last time? 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.197 and how do I build sort of this roadmap 00:21:19.280 --> 00:21:23.357 of very very very large investments in 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.397 very very ambitious builds because I 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.757 think that is more important than raw 00:21:29.840 --> 00:21:31.837 feature velocity and I don't think the 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.437 road map as it is serves that goal you 00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:39.037 know I was talking to somebody and again going back to OKRs unfortunately not 00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:40.477 dead yet and she was like what should 00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:43.197 our OKRs be relative to our AI 00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:46.397 transformation like PRs revenue per 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.397 headcount like what it should be like how many [snorts] huge experiments are 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:54.077 you running a month like I don't care what the experiments are I don't know 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:59.437 what they should be like how many big big swings are you taking a month with 00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:03.277 the presumption that most of them won't work out and I think that is just a very 00:22:03.360 --> 00:22:05.837 new way to think about how you build 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.077 your road map and a very new way to 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.557 think about how you do your product 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.597 again it's big on the ambition and very 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.917 fuzzy on the specifics 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:21.037 So here is my ask slashgift to you all. 00:22:21.120 --> 00:22:23.677 Build your last road mapap. And I do not 00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:26.477 mean build your last plan. Of course 00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:30.637 not. I just mean like no more lists of 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.357 ideas and features in spreadsheets where 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.797 you guess impact and where you like put 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:41.197 a date on them and then lock arms and say we'll never we'll never change 00:22:41.280 --> 00:22:45.357 anything because this is how we work. I just think that day is over. Instead, 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.157 what I want you to do is truly raise 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.117 your conviction, raise your ambition, 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.997 come up with big ideas, define what success looks like in like a year or 00:22:56.080 --> 00:22:58.877 two. You're going to have to make some big guesses because I can't honestly 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.717 tell what's going to happen in a week or two. I really think you want to get to a 00:23:02.800 --> 00:23:04.637 place where you have a factory that can 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:08.477 surprise you. And so, you really want to 00:23:08.560 --> 00:23:13.677 be able to discard software and then hold your factory to a high bar. And 00:23:13.760 --> 00:23:17.037 look, you're going to write a lot of code and then you're going to trash it. 00:23:17.120 --> 00:23:19.357 Good. Your customers do not need trash 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:24.717 products. Your AI is going to have better ideas than your team. Good. We 00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:29.757 need good ideas. And you need to hold that AI to a very, very high bar. And 00:23:29.840 --> 00:23:33.837 you're not going to be able to promise your team, your customers, what next 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:36.157 year looks like. Good. Because it's 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:37.837 probably going to be better than you can 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:41.037 imagine right now. So, this is my ask to 00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:43.677 you. write your last road map I promise 00:23:43.760 --> 00:23:47.357 you is extremely fun on this other side. 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.277 Enjoy the rest of your summit. I will see you later this afternoon and please 00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:55.830 come say hi. [applause]