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We need to make sure that we nail AI
and we really have a fixed window over the

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next few years to make sure
that America stays ahead.

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[music]

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>> Alex Wang is the
28-year-old founder and

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CEO of Scale AI, a data annotation
platform that provides training data for

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machine learning models.
You think we should prioritize

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leadership more than safety? Why do you
feel that way? And why do you think that

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actually putting safety first
could potentially endanger us?

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>> How does the Chinese Communist Party

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talk about AI? Going back to 2017, 2018,

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they enacted a kind of a whole
of government approach to leading an AI,

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sort of an AI master plan, if you will.

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And what they talk about is they want
to be the leader in AI by the year 2030.

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and they have an approach that
integrates their economy, their

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government, and every part of the
Chinese society to ensure that they're

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able to come out ahead. If you look
at AI performance today, we always like to

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break down AI into its three core

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elements. Compute, algorithms, and data.

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On compute, America is still ahead.

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Algorithms were now basically neck
andneck. DeepSeek basically proved that

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that they are just right on par with us
on algorithms. And if you look at data,

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China is actually way ahead of the
United States. And part of this is

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because they instituted all these
programs to win on data over the past

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decade, starting with when they put
together their uh global AI surveillance

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systems. You know, the United States
needs to have a strategy for data

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dominance. And we need to make sure
that we have a approach both in the public

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sector and the private sector
to ensure that we win on data.

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>> What keeps you up at night? What is
the worst case scenario? Is it going to be

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an extinction event like
some people have warned?

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>> I think before we get to those kinds of

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scenarios of a human extinction event,
there's there's very real things that

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I'm concerned about. One of the things
I'm really concerned about is if China

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races ahead on AI and let's say they

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start applying AI to their military and

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their cyber operations more effectively
than uh we do in the United States, then

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we're in for a really bad time.
You know, they'll be able to hack into all

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of our systems. They'll be able to hack
into our energy grid and shut it off.

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They'll be able to uh take all
of our information. And who knows, if they

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really build an incredible advantage
in AI, especially AI when it comes to

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military or defense technologies, they
may use that to start conquering nearby

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countries. You know, we really
don't know what's going to happen.

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>> And it's it's very
interesting, too, cuz

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your parents are Chinese and you grew
up in Los Alamos, and so you sort of have

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this deep understanding
of security, [music] technology,

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and what all that means. So you
have a very interesting perspective.

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>> It was very much so drilled into my

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childhood that that American leadership

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in science and technology is the core of

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why we as a country are able to maintain
our national security, why we're able to

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maintain leadership. You know, it's so
critical to ultimately how America stays

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ahead in the global order.
>> So what are the jobs of the future that

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involve us working with AI and what does
that look like for the average American?

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These are work opportunities that are
going towards Americans and going

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towards people who uh who otherwise may

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not have exciting opportunities in a
growing economic space like AI. And I

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think this is just going to keep
accelerating. And I think jobs in AI are

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going to grow faster than anywhere else.

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You know, one of the other things that I
definitely believe and I've been talking

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about is that we as humans are kind
of going to become the managers of AI

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agents. It's almost like everybody in
the world is going to get to be promoted

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to be a manager. But I do think that,

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you know, we're going to be able to

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utilize these AI agents to do more and

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have greater ambition on what each
individual human is able to accomplish.

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[music] >> And it's decentralized,
too. So, it's an

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interesting point you make about people
in rural areas can participate. It

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doesn't have to just be in big cities
like New York or San Francisco. [music]

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>> Yeah, exactly. That's one of I think
the really exciting things is that because

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AI is a digital technology because all
Americans are going to have access to

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technology, it really democratizes and

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and really uh you know spreads out
the opportunity across the entire US.

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>> Is that what you would say excites
you most or is there anything else that

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really excites you today
about where you see AI going?

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>> The really exciting things are are just

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the degree to which it's going to enable

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people to accomplish way more. I mean,

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some of the things that that I find like

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at my at my core really exciting are
how AI will be used in science and how it

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will be used to sort of accelerate
scientific discoveries.

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>> Can you speak to scale? What's next
for you? Obviously, you're busy working on

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issues like these, but but what what
are what's the future of the company?

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>> We recently announced a program
called Thunder Forge that we're working on

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actively with the Department
of Defense to utilize [music]

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AI and AI agents for military planning
and wargaming. We're very, very excited

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about that. I think there's so much more
work to be done there. I think that's

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going to be something we work on [music]
for decades to come. You know, it's not

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just like a a next year
or next few year things

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>> because that's the future
of warfare [snorts] it seems.

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>> Yes. Uh we we believe that

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fullheartedly. And then we're seeing a

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lot of exciting work with uh many uh

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many great American enterprises.
We're seeing now that that American

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enterprises more so than than even
enterprises globally are really

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embracing AI and want to figure out
how they can utilize it to operate more

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efficiently, be more competitive,
and deliver a greater result to their

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customers.