# NYN Alexander Wang - The future of the AI race

*Lydia Moynihan* · https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V26tYHD15E4

## Summary

Lydia Moynihan interviews Alexandr Wang, the 28-year-old founder and CEO of Scale AI, about the US-China AI race. Wang argues America has a limited window to maintain AI leadership, especially on data, and warns of military and cyber risks if China pulls ahead. He also discusses AI's potential to democratize job opportunities and Scale AI's defense work.

## Key points

- Alexandr Wang says the US has a fixed window of a few years to stay ahead in AI.
- He breaks AI into three elements: compute, algorithms, and data, with America ahead on compute, neck and neck on algorithms, and China way ahead on data.
- China's whole-of-government approach since 2017-2018 aims to lead AI by 2030.
- Wang fears China applying AI to military and cyber operations could let them hack the US energy grid and information systems.
- He believes humans will become managers of AI agents, and AI jobs will grow faster than anywhere else.
- AI is a digital technology that spreads opportunity across the entire US, including rural areas.
- Scale AI announced Thunder Forge with the Department of Defense for AI-driven military planning and wargaming.
- Wang grew up in Los Alamos with Chinese parents, which shaped his view that American leadership in science and technology underpins national security.

## Notes

### The US-China AI Race
- Alexandr Wang, 28-year-old founder and CEO of Scale AI, argues the US has a fixed window over the next few years to stay ahead in AI.
- Since 2017-2018, China has pursued a whole-of-government "AI master plan" integrating its economy, government, and society to lead in AI by 2030.
- Wang breaks AI into three core elements: compute, algorithms, and data.
  - Compute: America is still ahead.
  - Algorithms: basically neck and neck; DeepSeek proved China is on par.
  - Data: China is way ahead, partly due to programs like its global AI surveillance systems built over the past decade.
- He calls for a US strategy for data dominance across the public and private sectors.

### Risks and Worst-Case Scenarios
- Before any human extinction scenario, Wang worries about China racing ahead and applying AI to military and cyber operations more effectively than the US.
- Consequences could include hacking into US systems, shutting off the energy grid, stealing information, and possibly using AI military advantages to conquer nearby countries.
- Wang, whose parents are Chinese and who grew up in Los Alamos, says American leadership in science and technology is core to national security and the global order.

### Jobs and Opportunity
- AI jobs will grow faster than anywhere else, offering opportunities to Americans who otherwise lack access to a growing economic space.
- Humans will become managers of AI agents — like everyone being promoted to manager — enabling greater individual ambition and accomplishment.
- Because AI is digital, it democratizes opportunity across the entire US, including rural areas, not just cities like New York or San Francisco.
- Wang is most excited about AI accelerating scientific discovery.

### What's Next for Scale AI
- Scale AI announced Thunder Forge with the Department of Defense, using AI and AI agents for military planning and wargaming — work Wang expects to continue for decades.
- American enterprises are embracing AI to operate more efficiently, stay competitive, and deliver better results to customers.

## Transcript

[00:00] We need to make sure that we nail AI and we really have a fixed window over the next few years to make sure that America stays ahead. [music] >> Alex Wang is the 28-year-old founder and CEO of Scale AI, a data annotation platform that provides training data for machine learning models. You think we should prioritize leadership more than safety? Why do you feel that way? And why do you think that actually putting safety first could potentially endanger us? >> How does the Chinese Communist Party talk about AI? Going back to 2017, 2018, they enacted a kind of a whole of government approach to leading an AI, sort of an AI master plan, if you will. And what they talk about is they want to be the leader in AI by the year 2030.

[00:47] and they have an approach that integrates their economy, their government, and every part of the Chinese society to ensure that they're able to come out ahead. If you look at AI performance today, we always like to break down AI into its three core elements. Compute, algorithms, and data. On compute, America is still ahead. Algorithms were now basically neck andneck. DeepSeek basically proved that that they are just right on par with us on algorithms. And if you look at data, China is actually way ahead of the United States. And part of this is because they instituted all these programs to win on data over the past decade, starting with when they put together their uh global AI surveillance systems. You know, the United States

[01:30] needs to have a strategy for data dominance. And we need to make sure that we have a approach both in the public sector and the private sector to ensure that we win on data. >> What keeps you up at night? What is the worst case scenario? Is it going to be an extinction event like some people have warned? >> I think before we get to those kinds of scenarios of a human extinction event, there's there's very real things that I'm concerned about. One of the things I'm really concerned about is if China races ahead on AI and let's say they start applying AI to their military and their cyber operations more effectively than uh we do in the United States, then we're in for a really bad time. You know, they'll be able to hack into all

[02:09] of our systems. They'll be able to hack into our energy grid and shut it off. They'll be able to uh take all of our information. And who knows, if they really build an incredible advantage in AI, especially AI when it comes to military or defense technologies, they may use that to start conquering nearby countries. You know, we really don't know what's going to happen. >> And it's it's very interesting, too, cuz your parents are Chinese and you grew up in Los Alamos, and so you sort of have this deep understanding of security, [music] technology, and what all that means. So you have a very interesting perspective. >> It was very much so drilled into my childhood that that American leadership in science and technology is the core of

[02:50] why we as a country are able to maintain our national security, why we're able to maintain leadership. You know, it's so critical to ultimately how America stays ahead in the global order. >> So what are the jobs of the future that involve us working with AI and what does that look like for the average American? These are work opportunities that are going towards Americans and going towards people who uh who otherwise may not have exciting opportunities in a growing economic space like AI. And I think this is just going to keep accelerating. And I think jobs in AI are going to grow faster than anywhere else. You know, one of the other things that I definitely believe and I've been talking about is that we as humans are kind of

[03:28] going to become the managers of AI agents. It's almost like everybody in the world is going to get to be promoted to be a manager. But I do think that, you know, we're going to be able to utilize these AI agents to do more and have greater ambition on what each individual human is able to accomplish. [music] >> And it's decentralized, too. So, it's an interesting point you make about people in rural areas can participate. It doesn't have to just be in big cities like New York or San Francisco. [music] >> Yeah, exactly. That's one of I think the really exciting things is that because AI is a digital technology because all Americans are going to have access to technology, it really democratizes and

[04:04] and really uh you know spreads out the opportunity across the entire US. >> Is that what you would say excites you most or is there anything else that really excites you today about where you see AI going? >> The really exciting things are are just the degree to which it's going to enable people to accomplish way more. I mean, some of the things that that I find like at my at my core really exciting are how AI will be used in science and how it will be used to sort of accelerate scientific discoveries. >> Can you speak to scale? What's next for you? Obviously, you're busy working on issues like these, but but what what are what's the future of the company? >> We recently announced a program called

[04:40] Thunder Forge that we're working on actively with the Department of Defense to utilize [music] AI and AI agents for military planning and wargaming. We're very, very excited about that. I think there's so much more work to be done there. I think that's going to be something we work on [music] for decades to come. You know, it's not just like a a next year or next few year things >> because that's the future of warfare [snorts] it seems. >> Yes. Uh we we believe that fullheartedly. And then we're seeing a lot of exciting work with uh many uh many great American enterprises. We're seeing now that that American enterprises more so than than even enterprises globally are really embracing AI and want to figure out how

[05:17] they can utilize it to operate more efficiently, be more competitive, and deliver a greater result to their customers.