1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,077 We were the freak show and [music] we 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,557 spent 20 years for this moment. 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:14,237 >> We're doing it. We're doing it. And I'm sure you're enjoying this as much as I 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,237 am. >> If you were a cupcake, what kind of cupcake would you be? 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:23,080 >> I don't want to be a cupcake cuz I don't want to get eaten. 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,037 >> Alex Karp, welcome to Sorcery. I'm happy to be here. 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,117 >> Well, we're fresh off of earnings. 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,157 Palunteer has hit $500 billion recently. 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,277 Just released a new biography. How are you feeling? 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,797 >> Um, I feel really good. Um, 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,277 you know, look, we started the company 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,957 with a lot of ideas that uh were really 13 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,757 exceedingly controversial until about two years ago. FDES, everyone thought 14 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,357 that would destroy your company. uh being fully meritocratic. Everyone 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,117 thought you're not supposed to do that. 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,317 Um uh low hierarchy, almost no one does 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,277 that. So like like Eleano and I were 18 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,357 only separated by one layer, which is 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,477 fictional because like we talk and it's 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,317 a very very flat hierarchy. Um we were 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,317 uh we thought we should give America an 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,477 unfair advantage uh in government first 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,357 and then in commercial. Um, we built 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,597 these products more like artistic things 25 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,237 years before anyone thought their relevance. PG, the anti-terror product. 26 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:32,397 Uh, Gaia, the product that most special 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,877 operations use in the world. Um, 28 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:39,437 Foundry, uh, ontology, Apollo, Maven. 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,447 >> Uh, and we're still a freak show. 30 00:01:41,530 --> 00:01:45,197 [laughter] Uh and you know if you walk around here like the crazy thing about 31 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,437 Palunteer is you know I I I get invited 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,637 to like I meet lots of companies and we 33 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,557 you know big companies small companies private companies commercial companies 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,437 the most famous people in the world some 35 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,837 people should be famous but luckily for them aren't. And I would say Palanteer 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,677 like feels like if you walk around here 37 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,277 it's like uh kind of a startup vibe. I 38 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,117 mean but but but with scale and the the thing that's special about Palanteer I 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,157 mean my version externally is we gave venture returns not just venture returns 40 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:17,837 we gave venture returns as if you're 41 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:20,477 like you know I don't know you're you 42 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,197 like Peter Teal Seoia Koslow returns 43 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,557 to the average person who is willing to 44 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:31,437 do their own work and stand up against 45 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,797 uh uh kind of tried but not true ideas 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,637 like playbooks. So, we're like the antiplaybook company and then, you know, 47 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,197 I mean, you know, I'm currently in a battle with, you know, short sellers 48 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,517 primarily because they could go short 49 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,237 some carcinogenic company, but they have 50 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,957 to short arguably the best company in this country and in the world by any 51 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,277 metric. And by the way, judge us by our enemies. Look who hates us. Like, I 52 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,677 mean, like, go online. I mean, I guess people here have gone on X. Like, just 53 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,557 forget any you don't need to know anything else. just look at like who 54 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:08,637 hates Palenteer and look who hates me and then judge us by that standard. What 55 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,317 should our market cap be based on that 56 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,437 standard? So, um I don't know. I'm very 57 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,077 proud uh of where we are. Um I believe I 58 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,997 know it's the way beginning, you know, internally we're kind of a very young 59 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,077 company. >> I mean, I don't mean just in terms of 60 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,877 age, which is also true, but it's just a 61 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,797 young fresh vibe. We've anti-aged. 62 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,717 >> You've reached anti-aging. We've reached 63 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,957 anti-aging. It's either Well, I do think 64 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,237 uh age of company is directly correlated 65 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,357 with the rate of age or anti-aging is 66 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,077 directly correlated with the layers of 67 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,717 hierarchy. Our company is 20 years old 68 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,597 and feels like it's has scale of a 69 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,077 20-year company, but the vibe of a four or 5year-old company. Meaning, we know 70 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,197 what we're doing. We have a way of doing things. It's very tribal. We're we stick 71 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,237 to our tribal knowledge. But it's you 72 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,957 know like for example you know we put 73 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,917 the whole companies we bet on the US 74 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,717 military and on the US commercial sector and we pivoted the whole company to both 75 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,117 basically I mean that we still have a massive presence outside of America but 76 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,437 we've been and like we can do we can make these decisions 77 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,837 like in like somebody we la this marriage meritocracy uh thing which is 78 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,437 basically to give people who are tired of being discriminated against an 79 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,397 application process a chance to come and learn something useful. Uh, and the 80 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,637 people always say, "How long did it take to launch that?" And I was like, "Yeah, 81 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,037 I don't know. Three minutes." >> Three minutes. 82 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,197 >> Yeah. It's like decision. I don't know. 83 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:44,477 Like a lot of like I was we were talking about this before, but like 84 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,797 >> the it's it's hard to be fair to the 85 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,437 total barereft of common sense and in in 86 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,157 practice not particularly honest analyst expert class. Not because they're wrong 87 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,597 the first time, but primarily because they can't admit they were wrong the 88 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:58,957 first time when they're wrong the 10th 89 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,917 time. But if you want to be slightly 90 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:07,037 fair to them, this company runs on like a much more artistic. 91 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,877 It's more much more artistic than science. So >> where does that come from? 92 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,277 >> Um, you know, I obviously primarily from my mom was a professional and 93 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,837 world-class artist. And again, everyone says they're an artist, 94 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,677 but then there's a very big difference 95 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,117 between a glacial difference between 96 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,037 like my mom is a above one rule of 100 97 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,837 artists like you know it's like in in a 98 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,557 very different sphere and then on my father's side they were heavily involved 99 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:37,917 in commercial art 100 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,157 >> and like textiles for like a thousand 101 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,677 years. So like and what what people 102 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,357 always think of like the lay person thinks of art is you just doodle 103 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:52,397 something but I know it's crazy but uh you're from like an artistic family like 104 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:53,997 that's what people think but actually 105 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,197 art is you you tap into something very 106 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,597 very deep that is not understood about 107 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,197 the period of time you're in 108 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:04,557 >> and does not become understood until 109 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,917 like 20 30 years later. And that art 110 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,757 captures 111 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:14,477 something in the zeitgeist that is so 112 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,357 special, but then the depth also transmutes to like something more 113 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,917 universal. >> Do you think that's how Palunteer is being viewed right now? 114 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,277 >> Well, no. I mean, I think people like I think I think one of the one of the 115 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,277 crazy things about our society is people who are more on the front line like 116 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,157 soldiers, workers, 117 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,757 uh vocational workers. um what we call 118 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:43,037 retail investors, they're actually looking at the frontline data in an 119 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,637 unfiltered way 120 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,357 >> and then almost everybody else has 121 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,037 outsourced value assessment and 122 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,157 quantitative metrics to experts 123 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:59,277 >> but the experts in general generalization are I can't think of any 124 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:00,877 expert class that's been right about 125 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,597 anything substantive in the last 20 126 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,717 years and then so at this point when 127 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,797 you're like when the experts call the experts the analysts in this case or 128 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,277 journalists or I don't know you're a 129 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,597 financial analyst for a paper a hedge 130 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,197 fund like you are actually a medium and 131 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,557 it's your job to transfer the reality on 132 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,557 the ground into a reality you can understand. Yeah. But the reality you 133 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,797 can understand is not reality. And like 134 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,197 but then because there's like it's like 135 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,277 a a super unique uh bubble, they can't 136 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,437 quite allow themselves to say, "Yeah, but" and so but one of the greatest 137 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,797 trends is like I mean at the end of the day, what makes one of the things that 138 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,117 makes a great artist great is they have 139 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,677 a vision of what they see in the world 140 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,797 and they stick to that vision. Although 141 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,477 everybody in the world said, "You can't 142 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,197 paint like that. You can't write like 143 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,637 that. You can't you can't picture 144 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,557 photography that way. Uh because it doesn't I don't know. Then and then by 145 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:08,397 the way, most great artists like my mother end up with no money. 146 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,037 >> Yeah. >> And uh I mean that's the the book has 147 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,917 like a lot of TDS in it. But I mean it is true. We were not economically 148 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,237 privileged. But you could look at it as like but why were we not economically 149 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:21,837 privileged? Because like my parents have 150 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,117 these super high level of intellect. 151 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,117 Yeah. But it's also because they kind of stuck to their guns of how they saw the 152 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,277 world and that's where the experts are like, you know, like this isn't safe 153 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,477 because in almost all cases this doesn't work. Yeah, they're right. But in the 154 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:39,117 one case where you change the world, it's the only way it can work. 155 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,197 >> Is this why you're so committed to the American worker and even in the recent 156 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,837 re earnings call you called out you're 157 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,997 giving venture returns to retail 158 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,557 investors? you've created a really 159 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:56,397 amazing cult behind Wall Street Bets and a lot of retail. So, how do you feel 160 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,637 about retail? >> Well, I think you know I always think 161 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,317 there's the economic and there's the 162 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,037 psychological and really powerful things 163 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,837 are aligned. So, like you know I I in no 164 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,397 way like I hate these victimhood BS things and and honestly when you're 165 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,637 almost everyone who believes in that is a mark whether they realize it or not. 166 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,357 But I mean like they may not realize it but you are the mark and like uh and 167 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,117 that's frustrating because a lot of these people who believe in that really 168 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,877 deserve better but it's hard to give 169 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,717 better if you believe in an ideology 170 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,557 that can't work. But um 171 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,597 I did come from an environment and where 172 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:38,877 it was not expected that I would be 173 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,757 co-founder and have a butt for role in building arguably one of the greatest 174 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,517 companies ever built. And I don't mean that even like in like the half trillion 175 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,037 dollar market cap or whatever it is or I just mean in terms of how it's changed 176 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,277 the lives primarily of Americans on the 177 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,957 battlefield as investors and also um you 178 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,597 know um on the on on the factory floor. 179 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,397 But the thing is, if you come from 180 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,117 nothing and you're this amorphous, 181 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,317 racially dyslexic person from a very 182 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,797 specific kind of culture, not even 183 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,757 Jewish culture, it's like superbicger 184 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,557 Germanic left-wing culture, you 185 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,957 assume the world may not work out for 186 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,717 you and is definitely not looking out 187 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:28,317 for you. Okay. So, what other group of people in this culture have exactly the 188 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,677 same vibe? Yeah. Soldiers, people on the factory 189 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,237 floor. Who does the dying and bleeding 190 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,317 for us? Soldiers, people on the factory 191 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,357 floor. Who gets killed because somehow constitutional legal scholars only read 192 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,957 the Constitution so it's expansive to protect their rights. So their right to 193 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,957 be happy, their right to be go to Yale, their right to be wealthy, their right 194 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,117 to be safe. But somehow the constitution 195 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,997 cannot be read to stop the reality of 196 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,317 like in the last two years more people have died of fenol than every single 197 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,037 person who's died in as a soldier since World War II. But they they can't and 198 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,877 and part of it is like they have a lot of intellectual re reasons, but the real 199 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,997 reason is they don't see themselves as having had the same fate. But if you're 200 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,317 me, you you look at those people and then quite frankly look look at the US 201 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,717 Army. Look who fought and died 202 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,837 >> for our rights today. By the way, it so 203 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,357 it and it was like it and it was mostly 204 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,317 workingass people from what the elite 205 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,517 calls flyover states. It still is. Um 206 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,677 and then look at the US military. It integrated first to integrate, first to 207 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,157 bring me. It still fights for meritocracy. The first major institution 208 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,557 in the world to say, I don't care where 209 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,277 you're from. and they did it way before 210 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,677 American society. So that's that 211 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,397 version. Then there's the economic stability version. My version of what 212 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,397 and we by the way what a fair thing to ask people is what were you saying 10 213 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,557 years ago? Right? So one of the most 214 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,677 amazing things about Palunteer like is and you know this but like you go online 215 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,957 and people who like you know whatever some people don't like my vast words of 216 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,037 wisdom and they're like he's saying this now. What did he say 10 years ago? Like 217 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,277 we are saying this, we've been saying this for 20 years. Close the border. Get 218 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,037 rid of the identity politics. Victimhood It's especially bad for the 219 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,877 for people who need it. Uh have a strong military. Make that military the 220 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,317 strongest of the world. Give an unfair advantage to America. Do not treat all 221 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:31,117 cultures of equal. Simultaneously do not get on the whole neocon make the whole 222 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,557 world like America thing because it doesn't work. Be skeptical of 223 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,357 immigration. uh built technology will be 224 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,397 the determinant variable in who runs the world. All the stuff you're learning at 225 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,557 Berkeley about people are just going to inherently absorb American values is 226 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,477 really just downstream from our military superiority. You don't know that, but 227 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,717 our adversaries absolutely know that. 228 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,637 We've been saying this for 20 years. And the only difference now is people who 229 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,677 are skeptical of us are forced to realize we could be right, which is why 230 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,917 they run to short sellers and analysts 231 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,317 who still can't gro where we're at. 232 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,197 There was a part in the book where you 233 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:12,317 had just won the Dwight Eisenhower award and this was a little bit of a surprise 234 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,317 to your employees but you got a little choked up because of the impact of what 235 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,757 that is >> to troops and so could you just explain 236 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,917 what that experience was like for you? 237 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,397 >> Well, first of all, Eisenhower has his 238 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,317 German name. He's from a German 239 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,637 religious minority family. He uh de he 240 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,517 was a a pivotal peri figure at gunpoint 241 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,157 in desegregation. He helped win the war 242 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,437 or pivotal um and but the the main thing 243 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,117 is you know it's I lived in Germany for 244 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,477 a lot of my adult life uh which was a 245 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,717 phenomenal experience which maybe they went into in too much graphic detail. 246 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,077 >> What are you talking about? 247 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,637 >> We don't know. It's like uh it was um I went for the right reasons and I may 248 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,637 have stayed for the wrong reasons, but 249 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,317 it's okay. I uh and I so I have um a lot 250 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,317 of uh a deep understanding and and I'll 251 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,837 get to this and deep appreciation for the German culture. I think one of the 252 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,637 craziest things is you have this whole thing online where people like like law 253 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,637 the Nazis like I spend a lot of time 254 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,437 talking to Nazis like real Nazis and 255 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,837 like understanding what made them tick and what made them I mean part of the 256 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,677 crazy thing about people the Nazis nowadays is there's not a single Nazi 257 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,157 that would ever have included them in their movement and would have shipped 258 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,877 them off to the camps quicker maybe than 259 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,917 they shipped me off to the camps. Uh but 260 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,237 um and uh and it's like it's uh but 261 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,317 thing that is crazy unique about America 262 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,917 whether it's you know somebody from 263 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,477 Montana 264 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,197 >> Iowa 265 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,557 going over to fight 266 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,237 >> because they believed in America and 267 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,037 they believed in the greater good and 268 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:04,077 there really was this was a primarily 269 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,397 moral All it's like honestly it's like 270 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,277 Lincoln. This guy fought to end slavery. 271 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,997 It was not economic. It was moral. 272 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,037 >> Mhm. 273 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,717 >> Like what other culture actually engaged 274 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,677 in civil war just because it was wrong 275 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,437 >> what was happening in the south. That was the primary I'm not like the modern 276 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,037 way of reading is like economics. It's like if 277 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,117 maybe but the primary reason why Americans fought and died was moral. 278 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,117 Primary reason why Americans fought and died in World War II was moral and it 279 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,517 would they had no tethering. Like when 280 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,437 you're a soldier from the north dying to 281 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,597 fight slavery. It's not that you have I 282 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:48,957 don't know black relatives and friends. 283 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,477 It's because you think this is wrong. 284 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,357 when you were over uh fighting uh the 285 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,637 Nazis or Imperial Japan, you were doing 286 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,197 it because you thought America was a superior way of living and this wasn't 287 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,837 wrong. Now you can and like and then whatever one thinks about these things, 288 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,517 no other culture does this. It's the same thing of how did we get meritocracy 289 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,797 until recently in America? Merritocracy 290 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,957 is a like one of the things that we 291 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,957 don't often value enough like even now 292 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,637 in Europe like like in Europe if when we 293 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,717 I was involved in hiring at uh this institute I worked at and one of the 294 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,117 biggest problems was I was always like of course we need to hire the best 295 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,917 person that's not the way it works in Germany or Norway like the best person 296 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,317 doesn't get hired ever >> and so like you know like at our 297 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,637 institutions like at our elite institutions we embrace meritocracy. We 298 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,557 embrace the higher good and we fought 299 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,477 and died for that. Like one of and and 300 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,357 then the fact that Palunteer can bring that kind of person home more safely and 301 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,437 arguably whether people believe this or not we can you know the primary purpose 302 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,357 of Palunteer is to be so dominant that those people don't have to fight and die 303 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,277 because everyone knows you're going to die 10 times more if you attack America. 304 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:08,077 You want to sleep at night. You want to make sure our soldiers don't have to 305 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,277 fight and die. make sure the adversary knows they are gonna get totally effed 306 00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:13,517 up if they if they screw with us. And 307 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,397 that's that's like a really noble purpose. And uh it's not it's not any 308 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,117 less noble than when we started the company. 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That's certy. 349 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,637 One thing that was apparent through the narrative of the book was you're 350 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,637 self-made, but you're not self-made in 351 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,557 an economic sense. You're self-made in 352 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,677 maybe a morals and values sense. So, how 353 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,837 did you become Alex Cart? 354 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:01,597 >> Well, I mean, you know, there's the 355 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,317 there's all these variables. Very smart 356 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,957 parents, highly educated, crappy school, which I never would have done. Like, you 357 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,717 know, it's like and so you learn like 358 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,437 the world is violent. um uh dyslexia 359 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,637 meaning there's no playbook I could possibly follow. I think so one of the 360 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,317 reasons why dyslexics are so outperformant now is that we're in a 361 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,837 non-playbook world and the playbook's not that valuable but if you're dyslexic 362 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,077 you can't you can't follow the playbook 363 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,917 or only in a third rate way. So you in 364 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:36,920 you invent new and generative things. Um I 365 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,877 >> um I look I've never been accused of 366 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,317 false ill modesty. I think in the end 367 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,717 for to do something important whether it's me or like Elellaniano or look at 368 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,797 all these people here like these are among the best and most talented people 369 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,957 in the world at a certain level of 370 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,837 accomplishment. you're in an artistic space where it's very hard to explain 371 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,837 why you have your insights and it goes 372 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,997 way beyond experiences that have of 373 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,957 course also influenced them but like I 374 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,997 just have artistic impulses and they shape my life and I've allowed myself or 375 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,557 I've been forced to allow myself the freedom to live that way and in there's 376 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,877 one country in the world where you know 377 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,717 you get rewarded for that because in 378 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,957 America if you deliver you can be you 379 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,437 >> you know like >> you're your own boss, >> right? You decide who you want to talk 380 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:30,637 to, you decide you don't want to talk 381 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,637 to, you have ideas of things you'd like 382 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,877 to, you know, advance on. Um, and the I 383 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,197 think one of the biggest variables in my life is just simply I live in a culture 384 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,717 where if you deliver in this case 385 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,357 economically and by the way 18 I like 386 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,317 like for most investors we were failing 387 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,477 for at least 15 years. 388 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,517 >> Many would say 18 years. Honestly, some 389 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,917 would say until two years ago, right? 390 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,717 And still this is a culture where the 391 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,157 FDA, ontology, superiority of the West, 392 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,757 extreme meritocracy, the fact that I would just tell people basically the 393 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,557 financials are going to show up. You know, that's only possible in this 394 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,957 culture. And I guess maybe because I lived abroad so long, I was it's easier 395 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,637 for me to accept and rely on that. I think sometimes people who've lived here 396 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,037 their whole life don't always exactly understand you. This is a maximal 397 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:27,037 freedom culture. It's the only culture like this in the world. And it'll allow 398 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,717 you to self-express. And if you self-express, that self-expression, 399 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,637 because it's not playbook, creates an 400 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,837 environment that is exceedingly hard to compete with and will piss off all the 401 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,277 right people. >> How is a value creation for Palunteer 402 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,557 different than traditional SAS companies? 403 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,517 >> Uh well, here. Okay. So well first of 404 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,597 all it's important to remember we are value d like we drive our whole business 405 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,237 based on a set of beliefs that are like 406 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:59,197 America superiority and that but but then interestingly that's tethered to 407 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,717 the value creation argument you're 408 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,437 asking which is at the end of the day if 409 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,397 you believe your client is noble like I 410 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,957 believe our US government clients are 411 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,237 not only noble but they're no more noble 412 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,877 than I am and I'm happy with myself but 413 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,717 they're doing missions 414 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,437 that are will change world history for 415 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,197 the better. Okay. So, if you know that 416 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,637 the thing that's going to happen downstream from that is you're going to 417 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,277 resist building parasitic products, 418 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:34,077 right? Because like I don't want a product that will make me despite what 419 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,717 anyone but like anyone who's been a Palanteer will know this to be true. We 420 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,197 I did we did not the audacity of just saying we're going to build a product in 421 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,037 PG that's going to make you safer. Oh, 422 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,597 let's go away from the ambient noise. Uh 423 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,317 um that will make you uh safer 424 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,277 and more protected is audacious in a weird way that we 425 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,957 didn't realize. The most audacious part of that was saying we're going to build 426 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,037 a product that's actually what the client needs. 427 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,197 >> Mhm. >> Cuz what you're supposed to be doing do 428 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,877 in software is build the client that the client gets addicted to, not the one 429 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,837 they need. And like this is like and 430 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,597 this is absolutely a truism in in in 431 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,477 software development of any kind. And so 432 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,317 the like the again the most radical 433 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,237 thing we ever did was say yeah client or 434 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,917 in this case partner that we look up to 435 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,157 has these needs. We didn't even give 436 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,237 them what they asked for. We gave them 437 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:37,517 what they ought to ask for which again is very artistic. It's like like any 438 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,357 rational business would have said, you know, I don't know, client ABCD wants B. 439 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,317 At the very least, you just give them what they want. That's kind of what 440 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,357 integrators do. And then what very successful software companies do is say, 441 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,317 oh, they think they want X. Well, fake give them X, but we'll give them this 442 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,037 thing that they can't get rid of. And then nothing else will work, but they'll 443 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,237 just have to pay. And then I can hire 50,000 salespeople and get these 444 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:03,037 wonderful economics. And what and then every single decision like again the FD 445 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,277 thing, now everyone copies it. But it was the most radical like you had 446 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,757 everyone making fun of this for 20 years because that meant you were going to get 447 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,957 a a one multiple and but there was no 448 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,997 way to extend PG like essentially PG you 449 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,717 can think of PG as like a precursor to AIP because you have text free text that 450 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,037 a computer could not understand the NLP technology was primitive. The only way 451 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:27,517 to extend that product to like the 452 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,077 bounds of technology now was to have people doing impulse. And then the only 453 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,717 way to build the next product or deepen that product was to understand what the 454 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,157 customer ought to want tomorrow and build that into the product today. Mhm. 455 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,517 >> And so like that value creation by the 456 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,077 way it ends up being very very 457 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,957 protective because and and then because 458 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,557 the customer partner actually becomes to 459 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,597 they may not like you like some of our best clients globally both in government 460 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,437 and in commercial we're like I don't really like these guys. Yeah. But you 461 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,837 know what? When you bring someone home safely, they learn to love you. 462 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,517 >> And so, and then that that allows us to have this privileged position that we 463 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,397 now have. And now when we're launching, you know, when we again there's example, 464 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,237 the most recent example that people will be more familiar was with would be 465 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,797 launching AIP. >> Okay. When we launched AIP or I launched 466 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,397 it in like an artistic I don't know if you know the story, but any case, I 467 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,797 launched AIP in like the darkness of night. the darkness of night. 468 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,077 >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Unlike uh pre-Easter holiday because 469 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,197 >> it would have been massively resisted and and I would say as one of my 470 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,357 favorite people said in any other company every the whole head head of 471 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,917 whatever part of the product that was going to be involved in this would have 472 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,757 quit because it was just launched. 473 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,397 >> Mhm. >> It completely artistic like this is 474 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,757 where the world is going. We have all the components. We had ontology of 475 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,837 foundry but the components need to be 476 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,037 brought together. Okay. 477 00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:03,677 The the thing is if you're working back from what will sell, you would have 478 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,557 said, well, wait a minute, everyone's saying LLM are going to solve all these 479 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,917 problems. But I believed and it turns out that LLMs are commodity products and 480 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,717 orchestration would be much more valuable than the product themselves. 481 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,317 You need both. We need that we need the LMS. But in reality, and that's part of 482 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,117 the reason we have these numbers because turns out we're right. 483 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,917 >> Yeah. But but like if you were working 484 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,637 back from what experts think and what 485 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:33,240 customers are asking for, you do not launch that. You launch something else. 486 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,037 >> Okay. >> You can ask as many questions as you want. You have 487 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,117 >> I have one more question. Says Elellaniano. 488 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,477 >> Okay. You But you you can 489 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,397 she's the boss. How many questions would you like? 490 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,117 >> 72. >> Okay. [laughter] Okay. 491 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,357 >> Um, >> why not? Yeah. 492 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,917 >> So, on AIP, it seemed like that was a 493 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,717 big pivotal moment for the company and getting into this next realm of AI, 494 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,797 which is something in transformation 495 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,237 that you've embraced fullheartedly 496 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,237 versus maybe some other people um to the extent that you go into different 497 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,277 corporations and then you make the products for them 498 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:16,237 >> on top of our current products or we build new ones. Yeah, that's true. 499 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,717 >> Yeah. Would you say that that was a major component to why sales cycles have 500 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,997 compressed and why it's been easier to sell? 501 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,477 >> You know, it's it's a really good question. It's it's it it is that, but 502 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,637 also the zeitgeist has changed. Like although there have been a lot of 503 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,877 projects in AI that haven't worked. 504 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,957 >> Yeah, >> most leaders in the corporate world and 505 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,637 government know of projects that have worked. 506 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,477 >> Great portion of those are in Palunteer. 507 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,357 So in the government there's like there's a deep understanding the 508 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,837 government side of like Maven and other 509 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,397 things uh hive mind and then on the commercial context we have all these 510 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,717 very public customers and people begin to see their unit economics changing and 511 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,997 particularly important they're able to change them while being in the public 512 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,917 sphere so you can do what you had to do in private by you used to have to buy 513 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,997 the company take it offline for like 5 years and then scrap the cost and resell 514 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,277 and then you could do this while remaining public and there's lots of 515 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,637 economic advantages to that. Um uh and 516 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,757 so you can also do it in private context. But um and so the the the thing 517 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,797 that you see as a common through line that in AI on the positive side is it 518 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,277 used to be no one believed the software would work. M 519 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:30,957 >> now everyone believes it should work and 520 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,637 they wonder well if mine isn't working 521 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,517 >> where can I find something that is and 522 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,477 more and more and more people especially 523 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,637 honestly in the US it's not true in Europe in Europe they're still like it 524 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,237 doesn't work but hopefully this will fail because it's all American products 525 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,277 but in this country people are like I know this should work I turned on TV and 526 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,637 there was a someone I know or someone I've talked to at a conference said yeah 527 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,957 okay good the the it is a little weird when they show up, the person showing up 528 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,317 is going to be carp. That's not everyone's cup of tea. And someone who's 529 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,277 like looks 530 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,117 18 but is actually 25. And and it'll 531 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,277 work. I mean, I think that's what's like going around the country. And that means 532 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,077 both like from introduction to sale, 533 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,797 it's quicker and as importantly from 534 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,077 sale to actual output, we have a lot 535 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,997 more authority. Like we used to basically get in these enterprises and I 536 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,837 have to spend half my day explaining to 537 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,637 people look I know the person down the 538 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,677 hall is your tech person but they used to be a school teacher in music. This is 539 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,957 actual real example. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And which you know I like the idea 540 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,437 of a music but it's like and what they're saying about the tech stack you 541 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,957 know and then and you could do five years or you could do at the prime I 542 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,677 used to say five years versus 9 months. 543 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,757 Now it's like five years versus three 544 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,677 months. or two months. 545 00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,437 >> And there's actually much more of a please just tell us how to do this. Not 546 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,557 always. >> Yeah. >> And I would say interestingly, our newer 547 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,437 partners, customers are much more 548 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,117 wanting to hear, okay, I know this 549 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,757 works. It's gone from I'm not sure this 550 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,717 is works, but my life is on the line in 551 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,437 commercial and government like five years ago to I know this I've heard and 552 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,957 know this will work. >> How do I do this optimally? Mhm. 553 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,117 >> And then you know the bottlenecking we have currently means like you know I 554 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,797 mean I tell I'm telling governments all over the world look we're not showing up 555 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,917 to do a sales call for Maven. 556 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,677 You know it works. We know it works. 557 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,637 Show up in my office. Explain to how explain to us how you're going to make 558 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,437 this easy for us because we don't have huge bandwidth. 559 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,357 >> I mean I'm not talking about the US government. That's a completely 560 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,797 different thing there. We will bend over backwards and do whatever it takes. But 561 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,397 like allied countries in Europe was like yeah you know they're like oh we need 562 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,317 five sales meetings and a PowerPoint we're like great I can recommend some 563 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,477 other company it won't work but you'll 564 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,677 get all the sales reps all that cycle all the forms everything you want and 565 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,157 like you know I was just on the I was the other day talking to a very 566 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,237 important European uh leader I was like look 567 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,637 you have an intel service you have a military they should evaluate what works 568 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:20,157 they're going to tell you this works nothing else really is you can buy you 569 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,757 want the thing that doesn't work but sounds good they'll do lots of meetings 570 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,517 with you we can't do them >> we just can't and in commercial it's not 571 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,677 quite like that in the US but you know 572 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,997 there's a sense that the demand is 573 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,197 greater than what we can supply and you 574 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,037 know and then we want and then we I was just we were just telling an older 575 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,277 customer look the way you're doing it will not allow us to create value we're 576 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,197 not a normal software company if you're not creating value how are we going 577 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,757 going to get paid. >> Yeah. >> And by the way, you're going to want to 578 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,037 get rid of us at some point. So the whole thing makes no sense. Like we're 579 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,637 not selling you sake dinner. We're not 580 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,037 selling you our charm. We're selling you 581 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,317 significant value creation in a in 582 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,237 ridiculously short times of period and value creation on top end and buying 583 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,237 like basically you know and and then another thing by the way I tell people 584 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,237 is you know all the time it's like look I get to have an opinion because of our 585 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,597 financials. Do you want to have an opinion again? 586 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,437 You got to have financials like this. A lot of people want to be able to have an 587 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,437 opinion again in public. 588 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,477 >> You have VC returns for retail investors 589 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,877 and now you're having PE outcomes for 590 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,637 large companies. What's next? 591 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,437 >> Just being very very focused on the US 592 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,077 growing the US growing the quality of the UX. There's a lot more interestingly 593 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,037 when we're talking externally of course people want to know the financial 594 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,077 metrics you know like these rule of 114 595 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,757 the 70 all these things that are crazy 596 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:51,197 valuable but internally it's like really back to the like how do we make sure 597 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,957 this implementation is the best how do we make sure the product is is advancing 598 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,557 how do we make sure we're building the products of tomorrow how are we in the 599 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,037 US government closest to the the the things that will give America a 600 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,397 strategic advantage just not just now but for decades 601 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,437 Uh, how do we on the commercial side? 602 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,277 How do we make sure that the um Oh, it's just palenteer. People are roving 603 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,677 around. No hierarchy. This is just this the Palunteer thing. They're like, "What 604 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,917 are you doing here? Get out. I'm working. I have no time. CEO, move out 605 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,477 of the way." Yeah. This the other thing 606 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,037 of Palunteer. You know, we have we value 607 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,757 our work. Like he can have any opinion 608 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,397 he wants. He can come in here and like do it. So, you you you get to you 609 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,717 perform here. You get to be you, not just me. 610 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,637 >> Um, you know, this concept of worker available GDP. 611 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:42,717 >> Yeah. >> You know, you're going to participate in 612 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,917 the AI revolution. He's going to participate in the AI revolution. We're 613 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,037 building it here. >> The the person on the factory floor right now, 614 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,357 >> okay, >> wonders, are we going to get rich and 615 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,677 are they going to get poor? And is that we that that will not work for our 616 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,197 society. >> Yeah. No. So, what's Palanteer's role in 617 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,317 re-industrialization? making sure worker workers I mean first 618 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,637 of all there's like how do you manufacture at scale how do you 619 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:12,477 manufacture in addition this way how do you bring how do you if you bring let's 620 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,517 say you bring um Japanese Taiwanese 621 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,077 Korean uh manufacturing to America the interesting thing people always think 622 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,157 manufacturing is manufacturing you actually have to manufacture their 623 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,317 building the way you would do it in 624 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,517 those countries because that's how then you have to scale American workers so 625 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,517 like for example we have American workers working at factories like 626 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,077 Japanese factories especially and like 627 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,397 they're American workers they're not 628 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,437 Japanese workers but we can get we can 629 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,397 use foundry ontology to bring out the advantages of American worker and give 630 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,677 them the capacity to roughly work like a Japanese engineer 631 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,997 >> and so like and and honestly at this point we're really just showing rather 632 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,677 than telling because you really have to show people the narrative working and 633 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,517 now in the US military that's going gang 634 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,997 busters because most of the people who 635 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,877 actually do the work are domain 636 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,997 expertise specific individuals 637 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,197 and they're seeing oh wow I can like 638 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,917 like in special operations 639 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,397 >> as an example people using our product 640 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,877 are using our product yeah it's not like 641 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,237 there's not the like highly elite uh 642 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,477 Yale grad I think he actually is a Yale grad something like that 643 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,197 >> yeah something here we have like even more elite Like we have the person 644 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,797 creating the real value is someone who joined the military and they are just 645 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,917 crushing it. >> We have some fun questions. 646 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,917 >> Okay. Great. >> Okay. I saved some fun ones. 647 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,037 >> Okay. >> So, there was a heartwarming part in this book. 648 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,797 >> Yeah. >> I wasn't expecting it. Um there was a point in time in 649 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,997 >> Not my social life. 650 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,437 >> No. Well, your family life. 651 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,317 >> So, can you tell me about Rosita? 652 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,237 >> Yeah. Um so uh when my parents there's a 653 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,357 phase where my parents it was like the 654 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,917 the the thing is when you are outside the norm and in a family there's a 655 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,517 warmth in the family. >> Yeah. 656 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,677 >> So it's like like if you're like our family like total freak show in all 657 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,597 variables. So the outside is kind of like the freak show. I'm sure when my 658 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,917 parents came over people had to be warned kind of thing. [laughter] Uh and 659 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,317 like you know you may not be okay with this setup. And then but on the inside 660 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,717 because of that it was an exceedingly 661 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,237 intellectual vibrant warm environment. 662 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,357 And then when we we when I was a little 663 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,557 kid and we had moved we had moved from New York uh an incredible city which is 664 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,077 largely was about to get the most horrifically in all likelihood 665 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,037 ridiculous mayor. Um uh more than you 666 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,677 want to hear from me. Um my parents 667 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,317 decided to get a dog. Obviously we wanted it. So if you're like in my 668 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,557 family background, of course, the only place you're going to get a dog is in 669 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,557 the pound because that, you know, you wouldn't get a fancy and a dog of 670 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,397 course, you know. So we went there and we went and then we come to the pound 671 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,397 and the I even like in my mind's eye remembering it, but it might just be 672 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,237 I've heard the story a thousand times, but you know, uh and then there's this 673 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:19,517 dog that is and the person screaming, I hate this dog. I hate this dog. Uh and 674 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,877 then my mom said, well, why do you hate the dog? And it's like because the dog 675 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,837 there's a lock that you know a human could understand but a dog shouldn't be 676 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,597 able to. And Rosita was breaking out of 677 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:33,117 the lock. And then Rosita that's not why she they the like the warden in you know 678 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,517 it's basically a warden of death because they're like they were going to put her 679 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,117 to sleep the next day. >> And uh the ward's like I can't wait till 680 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,557 tomorrow. We're going to put they became Rosita to sleep. And my mom's like well 681 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,037 why do you hate the other? She's like well he's breaking out all the time. 682 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,797 She's breaking out all the time. M said well okay that's one thing. And even 683 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,677 worse than that, Rosita would go back and break open the other locks for other 684 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,317 people. >> Yeah. [laughter] And then my mom was like, "That's our dog." 685 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,317 >> And >> And then Yeah. And so that's And then 686 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,357 Rosita played a a tremendous role in our life. It was more like she's very very 687 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,197 high IQ. Like it was honestly more like 688 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,397 a human like than a dog. >> And uh Yeah. And uh yeah, 689 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,637 >> that's Rosita. >> And later on you exumed Rosita's room. 690 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,197 >> Yeah. There's a lot in the book I probably wouldn't have told, but like 691 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,477 Yeah. So one of the crazy things about 692 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,557 having resources is you can do things that mean a lot to you that you know. So 693 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,397 I through all sorts of ways got in touch with the person who bought the house 694 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,717 that was force sold during the divorce. 695 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,997 Uh and person was very generous and for 696 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,557 lots of reasons agreed to have me exume 697 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,157 their whole yard. And then I took uh 698 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,597 Rosita and now I'm uh yeah I have her a 699 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,997 burial site near my house. >> That's really sweet. Rosita was the best. 700 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,317 >> Really? >> No. >> Okay. Well, if you were a cupcake, what 701 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,637 kind of cupcake would you be? >> I don't want to be a cupcake cuz I don't 702 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,077 want to get eaten. I'm resisting becoming a cupcake. But 703 00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,117 >> what's your favorite cupcake? 704 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,037 >> Apparently in No, I actually don't eat 705 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:06,237 them that, but I actually recently in DC there's these very fancy I just It all 706 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,557 comes down to the icing. >> It's just the icing. 707 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,157 >> I don't know why people eat the cupcake. 708 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:12,557 It's just the icing. >> Makes no sense. Yeah, it makes no sense. 709 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,677 Why even have it there? >> Well, no, you have it. There's like a I 710 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,757 don't know the same way you have. Well, yeah. You have like a vehicle for for 711 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,117 the coffee. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, it comes down like there's really I 712 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,357 mean a lot of places have good cupcakes, but very few people have great cupcakes. 713 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,357 >> Okay. Well, before we head too far back into the office, thank you so much, Alex. 714 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,917 >> Thank you. Very nice. Very nice to meet you. 715 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,277 >> Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, 716 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,787 sorcery.bc, BC where we deliver a once a week top deals and tech headlines 717 00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:46,367 [music] email and also go deeper on our podcast interviews. Subscribe to Sorcery 718 00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:49,997 [music] today and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube, 719 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,267 Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen. 720 00:40:52,350 --> 00:40:57,080 [music] Link in description to sign up.