WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.982 Some jobs will go away. I mean, they do with every technological revolution, 00:00:03.065 --> 00:00:03.517 many jobs will 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:06.774 just be done differently. There will be all kinds of new jobs created. 00:00:06.857 --> 00:00:08.077 You know, it's always pretty 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:11.317 quickly after the big technological revolution. When you think about this, 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:12.237 cuz especially around 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:17.197 humanity and healthcare and longevity and us surviving on existence essentially, 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:20.469 it's in the hands of very few people and it's all private. 00:00:20.552 --> 00:00:22.557 How does government get more involved 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:26.288 because they just aren't they in the way they used to be involved in science 00:00:26.371 --> 00:00:26.877 research and 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:31.377 the beginning of the internet in we have said many times that in a well functioning 00:00:31.460 --> 00:00:34.936 society uh you know open AI would have been a government effort. 00:00:35.019 --> 00:00:37.037 I could say that about a lot of other 00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:41.442 industries too. How do you help fix that? Uh because you've all moved into the space 00:00:41.525 --> 00:00:44.814 right? I mean a lot of people are like oh are you mad at the tech people? 00:00:44.897 --> 00:00:46.157 I'm like that's what they do. 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:49.826 They move into spaces. It's the government that's abregated its responsibility. 00:00:49.910 --> 00:00:50.477 The government 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.722 should be doing the AI research. The government should be doing the longevity 00:00:53.806 --> 00:00:54.397 stuff and making 00:00:54.480 --> 00:00:57.055 that those things available. The government should be figuring out fusion. 00:00:57.138 --> 00:00:57.917 You mostly do interviews 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.993 about open AI and other thing. We're going to talk about another area that you're 00:01:01.076 --> 00:01:01.677 interested in. And 00:01:01.760 --> 00:01:04.954 you and I have talked about you're interested in energy and all kinds 00:01:05.037 --> 00:01:06.237 of different things which I 00:01:06.320 --> 00:01:10.255 think people don't know much about this part which is longevity. Um, 00:01:10.338 --> 00:01:11.437 I want you to define 00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:16.303 what you think you're interested in right now and the way your investment theory 00:01:16.387 --> 00:01:19.943 is going on this time. For longevity specifically, for longevity specifically, 00:01:20.026 --> 00:01:21.517 I'd say that the broader category is 00:01:21.600 --> 00:01:26.545 an interest in healthcare. Um, and I'm interested in longevity for a bunch 00:01:26.629 --> 00:01:27.837 of reasons, but I I 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:31.917 remember once someone saying that most diseases are diseases of age. 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.597 You know, 20-year-olds don't 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:38.372 get nearly as sick as 80y olds. And so if we can figure out the general purpose 00:01:38.455 --> 00:01:42.203 thing here, maybe we can improve healthcare outcomes across the board. 00:01:42.286 --> 00:01:43.677 Um I had a passing interest 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:48.410 in longevity for a long time and then when the partial reprogramming discoveries 00:01:48.493 --> 00:01:49.357 began to happen, 00:01:49.440 --> 00:01:54.779 explain what that is for people. The idea that we could sort of rewind a cellular 00:01:54.862 --> 00:01:58.129 age a little bit, not all the way back to a stem cell, which you know, 00:01:58.213 --> 00:01:59.917 you don't want to be turned back into goo, 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.590 but we could like make your cells a little bit younger, right? Um, 00:02:03.673 --> 00:02:05.037 so that seemed like a kind 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:11.533 of crazy exciting discovery and I uh ended up making a large investment in a company 00:02:11.616 --> 00:02:11.997 called 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:16.342 Retro to pursue that. And what where did it come from? Where did this interest? 00:02:16.425 --> 00:02:17.277 Was it you wanted 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.646 to live longer or what was the or you were interested in sci-fi or what? 00:02:21.730 --> 00:02:26.421 I think kind of all of the above. I I was as as I mentioned like really interested 00:02:26.505 --> 00:02:28.237 in healthcare and is there like 00:02:28.320 --> 00:02:34.510 a I think my whole kind of approach to startups and technology is can we identify 00:02:34.593 --> 00:02:35.517 like the crux 00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:41.985 issue for something and then for healthcare um if we could truly keep you 00:02:42.068 --> 00:02:43.757 you know health-wise 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.795 younger for much longer that would address a lot of the health issues and so rather 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:48.477 than like kind 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:51.880 of try to like fight disease after disease and problem after problem maybe this 00:02:51.963 --> 00:02:54.494 was like you know the Gordian knot we could cut through all. 00:02:54.578 --> 00:02:56.637 So the idea is most of the costs come at the end 00:02:56.720 --> 00:03:00.445 of your life for in healthcare at the most of the cost but also just most of like 00:03:00.528 --> 00:03:04.496 the degradations in quality of life right and and living badly essentially. 00:03:04.580 --> 00:03:06.317 Were you yourself scared of that 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:11.062 because there is this sort of trope of you you realize the trope of Silicon Valley 00:03:11.146 --> 00:03:11.757 guys wanting 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.957 to live forever narcissism etc. And there's a lot of examples of that. 00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:17.517 You can see Brian Johnson, 00:03:17.600 --> 00:03:23.374 whatever. All of it is vaguely selfish and sci-fi inspired in some fashion 00:03:23.457 --> 00:03:24.957 of becoming a robot, 00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:31.457 becoming a cyborg, etc. Is that's not your um at least not consciously. No, 00:03:31.540 --> 00:03:33.277 I I don't like Steve. 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:36.337 Yeah. By the way, I don't think I don't think a technology like retro will make 00:03:36.420 --> 00:03:36.957 you live for No, 00:03:37.040 --> 00:03:39.662 that's correct. I think you'll be healthier for longer and then a very 00:03:39.746 --> 00:03:43.955 steep. So, you just have healthier for longer, not live forever. 00:03:44.038 --> 00:03:47.837 I definitely don't want to get, you know, really 00:03:47.920 --> 00:03:51.787 sick for a long time. So, explain what Retro is doing from and why you picked 00:03:51.870 --> 00:03:52.557 that particular 00:03:52.640 --> 00:03:55.348 company because there's lots of people sort of hitting this from there are a lot 00:03:55.431 --> 00:03:55.837 of things now. 00:03:55.920 --> 00:03:59.769 At the time, there were not as many. This broad area of partial reprogramming seemed 00:03:59.852 --> 00:04:05.305 to me like the kind of thing that looked incredibly promising in the lab. Um, 00:04:05.389 --> 00:04:07.917 was one of the few approaches that 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.745 I thought could really work like across a a whole person. Mh. 00:04:12.828 --> 00:04:15.357 and seemed worth pursuing. I have 00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:19.422 become increasingly negative on the ability for academia to make things 00:04:19.506 --> 00:04:22.838 happen. I think academia is still really great at some things, early discovery, 00:04:22.921 --> 00:04:24.237 but it's like all right, if we really 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:28.491 want to like take this idea and maybe make it into something that can really help 00:04:28.575 --> 00:04:29.437 people, uh maybe a 00:04:29.520 --> 00:04:32.756 startup is a good idea, right? Which spoken like a true Silicon Valley person. 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:33.437 You know, I have 00:04:33.520 --> 00:04:36.383 my bias obviously, but sometimes it works. Space travel, everything. 00:04:36.467 --> 00:04:40.117 Sometimes it works. The goal is add 10 years of health span. Mhm. So, you know, 00:04:40.200 --> 00:04:42.637 maybe it doesn't keep you alive any longer at all, 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:47.771 but you you're healthier for longer. And the the approach that I am personally most 00:04:47.854 --> 00:04:48.637 excited about, 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:55.720 is give you um some proteins, uh some RNA or DNA that will express those proteins, 00:04:57.241 --> 00:04:58.717 whatever it is, 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:04.693 um but somehow do something to your cells that will partially reprogram back them 00:05:04.776 --> 00:05:09.965 back to a younger state. A lot of people we've talked to are all pointing to AI as 00:05:10.048 --> 00:05:11.757 an important tool in whether 00:05:11.840 --> 00:05:15.683 it's cancer research, whether it's all kinds of whoever is doing approaching 00:05:15.767 --> 00:05:16.717 these things. Talk a 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.910 little bit about the role that something like open AI and AI in general will have. 00:05:20.993 --> 00:05:21.677 It's one of the 00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:26.183 healthcare is one of the biggest uses of chat GBT and with GPT5 um we made a big 00:05:26.266 --> 00:05:27.197 push to improve it 00:05:27.280 --> 00:05:31.028 for healthcare. People use it to understand their health all the time. 00:05:31.112 --> 00:05:34.257 They upload their medical records. They ask you questions about symptoms. 00:05:34.341 --> 00:05:36.237 You can like read a lot of stories on the internet 00:05:36.320 --> 00:05:39.831 about people using this in super important ways and obviously we think that's great. 00:05:39.914 --> 00:05:44.707 So with GPT5 we did a big push to make it better at health related queries. 00:05:44.790 --> 00:05:46.237 So when you think about 00:05:46.320 --> 00:05:53.029 that uses that's patient uses doctor's uses in 10 years what could it be? 00:05:53.112 --> 00:05:58.597 I've heard a lot of doctors and healthcare workers say that, you know, 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.397 they hope that in 10 years everybody gets and they 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.335 think this they literally mean this everybody gets better healthare than 00:06:06.418 --> 00:06:07.757 the best healthcare anyone 00:06:07.840 --> 00:06:13.102 can get today. You know, they imagine a world where you can start with an AI 00:06:13.185 --> 00:06:17.036 medical advisor service and you can say here's what's going on for me or hey, 00:06:17.119 --> 00:06:18.877 I'm just this is my normal life. here's 00:06:18.960 --> 00:06:24.992 my sleep data, what I'm eating, my blood tests, my symptoms. And you know, 00:06:25.075 --> 00:06:26.397 a a service could 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.820 early on say, "Hey, you're at risk of this. You need to go test for this. 00:06:28.903 --> 00:06:29.517 You need to make this 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:32.735 change. You need to go to this specialist doctor. This is a little weird. 00:06:32.818 --> 00:06:36.889 You need to go here." The other day I had a Sounds crazy. I used CHT DPD for this. 00:06:36.972 --> 00:06:38.797 I had a thing on my hand. I'm like, 00:06:38.880 --> 00:06:43.083 "What is it? A wart? What is it?" I took a picture. Picture what it was. 00:06:43.167 --> 00:06:43.917 It really did. 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.339 It was I had gone through a pricker bush and I had forgotten I had done that. 00:06:47.422 --> 00:06:50.209 And it's like it said, "Did you go to a pricker bush?" And I said, 00:06:50.292 --> 00:06:52.717 "I did go through a p and you know and I said that's what 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:56.705 it looks like." Which was interesting. Which was a good outcome, right? 00:06:56.788 --> 00:06:57.997 Talk a little bit about 00:06:58.080 --> 00:07:01.248 the things you're worried about because you know there's a lot of things. 00:07:01.331 --> 00:07:02.317 There's a lot of stories 00:07:02.400 --> 00:07:07.219 of things that get out of control. You recently had a story uh of a of a kid who 00:07:07.302 --> 00:07:08.077 was using chat 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:13.199 GPT to tragic effects. What are the things you worry about when you're trying 00:07:13.283 --> 00:07:14.397 to fine-tune this? 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:19.615 Mental health in general is something that I'm increasingly worried about with AI. 00:07:19.698 --> 00:07:24.317 Again, I think it can be done for tremendous good. 00:07:24.400 --> 00:07:28.637 Uh but this is this is happening very fast, 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.126 you know, like I think Chesp is like a little bit more than or coming up on three 00:07:32.209 --> 00:07:32.557 years old, 00:07:32.640 --> 00:07:38.557 right? And for the first year it was used as a sort of curiosity, maybe a Google 00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:41.533 replacement a little bit, right? Maybe uh like, you know, 00:07:41.616 --> 00:07:43.600 write my essay for school or whatever. 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:51.208 Only with more recent evolutions did people start to use it as a life coach, 00:07:51.291 --> 00:07:53.197 sort of a therapist and 00:07:53.280 --> 00:07:57.194 you know close advisor, things like that. We have learned that a lot of people need 00:07:57.278 --> 00:07:57.917 someone to talk 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:03.945 to and to give them advice. And I am worried that given how quickly this 00:08:04.028 --> 00:08:05.117 is moving that 00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:10.341 societal scale behavior could change in a way that affects societal scale mental 00:08:10.424 --> 00:08:11.517 health. and we are 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:14.006 working super hard to get a handle on that and understand what's happening. 00:08:14.089 --> 00:08:17.801 But it is something I'm worried about. So you engage 250 doctors in doing this. 00:08:17.885 --> 00:08:19.357 One of the things most people 00:08:19.440 --> 00:08:21.797 tell me when they're talking about AI's impact on healthcare, 00:08:21.880 --> 00:08:26.577 longevity, everything else is there has to be that human element. In a lot of ways, 00:08:26.660 --> 00:08:30.317 it you almost want to eliminate the human in it. No, 00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:35.717 it tends towards that way. I am pretty sure though that people even if they know 00:08:35.800 --> 00:08:36.797 the human doctor 00:08:36.880 --> 00:08:40.999 is going to perform worse than the AI doctor will significantly prefer the human 00:08:41.082 --> 00:08:44.746 doctor. I certainly would. I want my doctor to use all these tools. 00:08:44.829 --> 00:08:47.437 I want to use these tools myself. But uh there 00:08:47.520 --> 00:08:51.967 is like something very deep of have not had that many serious health issues 00:08:52.051 --> 00:08:53.357 but when I did have one 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:57.108 I really would not have been happy like leaving my fate in the hands of an I 00:08:57.191 --> 00:08:57.997 really cared about 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:02.366 that human doctor and their humanness. Some of it's driven by a frustration 00:09:02.450 --> 00:09:05.597 with health care, of course, the difficulty of making even an appointment. 00:09:05.680 --> 00:09:06.797 No matter where you are on the 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:10.564 economic scale, unless you're very rich, you can invite the doctors in. 00:09:10.647 --> 00:09:15.655 Most people have difficulty getting care. Let's say I got like bad poison oak. Mhm. 00:09:15.738 --> 00:09:17.917 Um and I took a picture and I sent 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.489 it to ChachiBT and and I was like, "It says you have poison oak." 00:09:20.573 --> 00:09:21.677 And I said, "That makes sense. 00:09:21.760 --> 00:09:24.300 I was hiking the other day. Like those are the exposed areas. 00:09:24.384 --> 00:09:25.677 I think you're right. I'm really 00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:29.491 uncomfortable." and it's like, "Would you like a prescript a prescription 00:09:29.574 --> 00:09:33.817 for predinazone? I'm sure this is your problem." I would say, "Great." Yeah, 00:09:33.900 --> 00:09:36.717 I'm comfortable with that. On the other hand, if 00:09:36.800 --> 00:09:41.016 I have like some really weird symptoms and an AI says, "That could be cancer. 00:09:41.099 --> 00:09:42.077 You better go see a 00:09:42.160 --> 00:09:45.480 doctor." I will definitely go figure out a way to get that appointment and really 00:09:45.564 --> 00:09:46.237 want to go talk to 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.862 a doctor. GPT5 is the first time where there have been real small but real 00:09:50.945 --> 00:09:52.237 examples of this. Give 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:57.174 me an example. There was like a I saw on Twitter a couple of days ago there 00:09:57.258 --> 00:09:58.557 was like a math proof 00:09:58.640 --> 00:10:03.846 and then uh someone said maybe we can do a little bit better and ask GPT5 Pro to work 00:10:03.929 --> 00:10:04.717 on it and came 00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:09.149 up with a novel and better solution. Mhm. So it could do little discoveries starting 00:10:09.232 --> 00:10:12.913 to but but a real useful like actual discovery that humans couldn't do. Yeah. 00:10:12.996 --> 00:10:14.237 Or hadn't done or computers 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:20.397 to this point hadn't done. So you said by 2035 you anticipate AI will be able 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:21.597 to cure or cure 00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:26.071 at least treat most diseases really mitigate some people. Yeah. 00:10:26.154 --> 00:10:28.557 Treat mitigate something like that. 00:10:28.640 --> 00:10:32.595 Right. Right. But I think we are I mean again this this research project 00:10:32.678 --> 00:10:33.997 with retro is one example 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:38.126 where it's like wow this is like this just pushed us years ahead in our research 00:10:38.209 --> 00:10:38.797 and I have to 00:10:38.880 --> 00:10:41.729 mostly go with what the biologists and the pharma companies say here. 00:10:41.812 --> 00:10:42.877 This is way out of my field 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:47.258 of expertise. So this is squeezing time is what you're talking about or finding new 00:10:47.341 --> 00:10:47.997 insights. Both 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.850 speeding up the rate of discovery of new insights and then making the insights 00:10:52.933 --> 00:10:54.157 themselves. Yeah. Now 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.891 that quote about 2035 that heard people experts say that's when they think we know 00:10:58.974 --> 00:10:59.757 what it is, how 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:03.114 long it takes to actually get that into the clinic there people are like that's 00:11:03.198 --> 00:11:03.837 getting worse and 00:11:03.920 --> 00:11:07.954 worse. One of the things is incredible after all this time we know very little 00:11:08.037 --> 00:11:08.957 about human biology 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:13.063 especially the brain for example. Talk about how super intelligence overcomes 00:11:13.147 --> 00:11:17.200 that. We are not that smart and biology is enormously complex. 00:11:17.284 --> 00:11:20.557 We can imagine kind of anything. We can we can 00:11:20.640 --> 00:11:25.508 have someone explain enormously complex things to us and then we can get it. 00:11:25.592 --> 00:11:26.877 But to discover these 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:31.197 things requires a lot of brain power and in many cases maybe more than we have. 00:11:31.281 --> 00:11:32.237 If an intelligence, 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:37.101 you know, a thousand times or a million times smarter than us can figure out 00:11:37.184 --> 00:11:37.997 really how all 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:42.120 of this works and then explain it to us, I believe we'll be able to understand it 00:11:42.204 --> 00:11:45.485 even if it was too complex for us to figure out in the first place. Yes. 00:11:45.568 --> 00:11:47.517 So it will give us the answer. Yes. And then 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.805 we'll go, "Oh, right. You and I can understand very complex physics, 00:11:50.888 --> 00:11:54.509 but it would have taken lifetimes of smarter people than us to figure it out." 00:11:54.592 --> 00:11:56.237 You could understand complex, too. I 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.633 had lunch with my son the other day and he's tried to and it was a waste of time 00:11:59.716 --> 00:12:02.963 and we moved on to the super I'd love to take a crack at explaining it. Yeah, 00:12:03.047 --> 00:12:04.557 I get what you mean. I was I had a a 00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:08.676 blood thing where I have low white blood cells and doctors diagnosed it 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:12.919 as neutropenia which means low white blood cells. That was an that was a description, 00:12:13.002 --> 00:12:14.557 not an explanation or a diagnosis. 00:12:14.640 --> 00:12:17.309 And I was like, well, why? Well, because it's low white blood cells. 00:12:17.393 --> 00:12:21.461 And I was like, but that's like there's that's not an answer. It's description. 00:12:21.545 --> 00:12:23.037 And that's where med medical 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.012 people often hide behind a description versus a diagnosis. 00:12:26.096 --> 00:12:27.757 And I remember looking standing in 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.544 front of a nurse and she said, "Oh, a lot of women who just had babies have this." 00:12:31.627 --> 00:12:34.547 And I was like, "Really?" She goes, "Yeah, I've seen a lot." 00:12:34.630 --> 00:12:37.277 And but it was in her head from memory. And I looked 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.291 behind her and there was sheets and sheets of paper of all the patients. 00:12:40.374 --> 00:12:44.380 And I thought, "The answer is in there somewhere." Is in there somewhere. Yeah. 00:12:44.463 --> 00:12:46.077 What I think we can do for sure 00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:51.377 is really empower individual people to be able to advocate for better outcomes 00:12:51.461 --> 00:12:55.664 for themselves. Where do you find the problem in accepting these technologies? 00:12:55.748 --> 00:12:56.877 Is it the medical is it 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:00.194 is it pharmaceutical companies? Is it I would think pharmaceutical companies would 00:13:00.277 --> 00:13:00.477 embrace 00:13:00.560 --> 00:13:05.466 it so they can do drug discovery faster. We have not seen the kind of rejection 00:13:05.549 --> 00:13:10.872 from the medical community that people told us we were going to get. In fact, 00:13:10.956 --> 00:13:13.437 every time I go visit like a clinic 00:13:13.520 --> 00:13:17.502 or a hospital or whatever, they're and I'm kind of asked, I'm like, you know, 00:13:17.586 --> 00:13:21.137 how's it going with us, whatever, they're like, don't tell anyone, 00:13:21.221 --> 00:13:24.077 but every doctor here uses this all the time and we 00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:26.942 just do it at home and, you know, please make a HIPPA compliant version so we can 00:13:27.025 --> 00:13:27.437 do it at work, 00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:32.398 but we all like we all love it. When you think about extending longevity, 00:13:32.481 --> 00:13:33.757 you're saying you're 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:37.541 giving power information in the hands of people. How does that work? 00:13:37.624 --> 00:13:38.877 Does you think it has an 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:41.721 implication on healthcare and on longevity besides detection? Yeah, 00:13:41.804 --> 00:13:43.037 I think these are like somewhat 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:47.197 different. I mean, I think that what we've been talking about mostly is giving 00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:47.677 consumers 00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:54.760 access to like healthare good information is one thing about themselves 00:13:56.010 --> 00:14:00.461 in particular like a theoretical thing. This is like here people do it. 00:14:00.544 --> 00:14:02.637 A lot of people do it every day. Mhm. And 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:08.764 then there's this other category of can we use AI to do better longevity research 00:14:08.848 --> 00:14:09.597 with any of 00:14:09.680 --> 00:14:12.946 the companies or approaches that are working on it and I think those are pretty 00:14:13.030 --> 00:14:15.649 different. I mean the same intelligence matters for both of them. 00:14:15.732 --> 00:14:17.757 So AI will work for both of them but they're quite 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:23.030 different approaches. People want like consumers patients want it to work so 00:14:23.113 --> 00:14:24.557 badly that it attracts 00:14:24.640 --> 00:14:28.781 charlatans and they make a lot of money cuz people will try anything right? 00:14:28.864 --> 00:14:33.795 you know, whatever. The crazier the better. It sounds like and you So, 00:14:33.878 --> 00:14:37.917 I find that obviously really distasteful. It speaks 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.182 to how much people want something, you know? 00:14:40.266 --> 00:14:42.397 It's like everybody wants a magic pill. You 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.057 tell people like sleep eight hours a night, get exercise, 00:14:45.140 --> 00:14:46.877 eat reasonably healthy, and don't drink 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:51.348 so much. They're like, "Nah, [__] you. I'm not going to do any of that. 00:14:51.431 --> 00:14:55.949 I want a pill." Um, and so in the in the like search for this cheat code, 00:14:56.032 --> 00:14:59.037 people take all kinds of crazy stuff. limited to 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:03.287 no medical evidence. Do you fall prey to that? Do you At this point, 00:15:03.370 --> 00:15:05.037 it's hard not to, is it? Uh, 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:09.067 I mean, it's all around. When the GLP1s first came on the scene, 00:15:09.151 --> 00:15:10.957 long time ago, like many, many 00:15:11.040 --> 00:15:13.592 years ago, right, there was this uh compounding pharmacy that'll make it 00:15:13.675 --> 00:15:14.397 for you. I had no idea 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:20.933 what a compounding pharmacy was. Uh, so they make it for me. Um, 00:15:21.016 --> 00:15:23.997 they screw up the dosing and I 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.983 do I don't remember the exact number, but a mega overdose. Yeah. 00:15:27.067 --> 00:15:28.477 And I had never taken before, so 00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:31.575 I had like no tolerance or whatever, right? And I like injected like a, 00:15:31.658 --> 00:15:35.527 you know, it's like a Sunday or something. Let's call it 11:00 a.m. 2 p.m. 3 p.m. 00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:37.837 start feeling really bad. Convinced I'm like 00:15:37.920 --> 00:15:39.915 really sick. I have my friends over for dinner that night. 00:15:39.998 --> 00:15:41.277 My now husband looks at me. He's like, 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.935 "You're dying." I don't know. You're like, "You got some crazy you're dying." 00:15:44.019 --> 00:15:48.531 Yeah. And I hadn't put it together that it was this yet. Oh, wow. 00:15:48.614 --> 00:15:53.197 And uh I I go to bed feeling horrible. Mhm. Puking all 00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:57.744 night. Whatever. I now have kind of put together that maybe it has to do 00:15:57.827 --> 00:15:59.197 with this. Maybe um and 00:15:59.280 --> 00:16:04.413 I uh you know my pulse is like 150 something like that like blood sugar 00:16:04.496 --> 00:16:09.270 unbelievably like just like fully crashing in the morning with the ER. Yeah. Um, 00:16:09.353 --> 00:16:11.757 and then like over the next day, they gave me 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.491 like a Google strip, whatever. Over the next day, we kind of figure out, 00:16:14.575 --> 00:16:15.517 but there's nothing you can 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:20.327 do. You just wait, right? And an interesting and unknown thing about 00:16:20.410 --> 00:16:24.626 this is the you or not that well known is it makes you not have a desire to eat. 00:16:24.710 --> 00:16:26.557 Take enough of it makes you have a desire, 00:16:26.640 --> 00:16:30.718 not have a desire for anything else. So, I spend and I'm usually like a very kind 00:16:30.801 --> 00:16:31.437 of like I need 00:16:31.520 --> 00:16:35.347 a lot of like I I I need like new stuff to think about. Yes, I know. 00:16:35.430 --> 00:16:36.957 I'm the same way. And I have 00:16:37.040 --> 00:16:40.208 these few days laying in this hospital bed staring up at a white ceiling, 00:16:40.291 --> 00:16:41.277 right? Thinking nothing, 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.004 not looking at my phone, not wanting anything, right? Feeling terrible, 00:16:45.088 --> 00:16:46.317 right? But just no desire 00:16:46.400 --> 00:16:51.173 for anything, right? One thing that is better about longevity is everybody gets 00:16:51.256 --> 00:16:52.157 old. Mhm. And so 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.381 there's like a mass mass market there. You don't have to worry about that part. 00:16:55.464 --> 00:16:56.157 Um I do think these 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.666 things where there's only like, you know, 20,000 people in the world that have 00:16:58.749 --> 00:17:02.050 a disease, it's not so obvious about how to like make capitalism work for this. 00:17:02.134 --> 00:17:03.837 I think anything that we could come up 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:05.917 with that would add 10 years of health span, 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.997 we'll have the the benefits of capitalism to 00:17:08.080 --> 00:17:10.692 help us make it cheap. And I think that's what I would do. You do. 00:17:10.775 --> 00:17:11.917 Are you worried about saying a 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.380 certain amount of rich all the sci-fi is around the rich people taking all 00:17:15.464 --> 00:17:16.317 the goodies? I mean, 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:19.535 the version of this I think about this much more for AI than longevity, 00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:20.397 but for AI, yes, it 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.605 absolutely has to be fixed. I think we're actually doing a really good job right now 00:17:24.688 --> 00:17:25.357 of distributing 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:31.247 the benefits of AI quite broadly. Um, but you can imagine a world where it doesn't 00:17:31.331 --> 00:17:32.397 go that way. And 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.895 if you have a lot of capital and you put it all into your AI brain, 00:17:35.978 --> 00:17:37.357 that's like a huge advantage 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:41.541 over people who don't. How many people at Open are focusing on time research 00:17:41.624 --> 00:17:42.477 on health related 00:17:42.560 --> 00:17:46.957 goals? I actually don't know the size of the chat health team. It's not tiny, 00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:48.237 but it's it's and it's 00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:51.260 growing fast. And then we have the scientific research teams. 00:17:51.343 --> 00:17:52.797 One of the complaints of course 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.047 is that it's and I it's not just you. It's and it happened early in the internet. 00:17:57.130 --> 00:17:57.677 I remember a 00:17:57.760 --> 00:18:00.809 lot of these companies saying, "We're here to help humanity." And I thought, 00:18:00.892 --> 00:18:01.757 "No, you're not. You're 00:18:01.840 --> 00:18:06.502 not really." And I always used to reference the the Twilight Zone episode 00:18:06.585 --> 00:18:07.997 to serve man, which was 00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:11.113 the aliens come to help us and then they want to eat us essentially. 00:18:11.197 --> 00:18:12.397 How do you push back against 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:17.599 the idea that the health goals is just marketing for the other things you're 00:18:17.682 --> 00:18:19.037 doing? I mean, again, 00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:23.312 it's like I would bet it's a top three use case of CHBT at this point. 00:18:23.395 --> 00:18:24.717 Like it's a significant 00:18:24.800 --> 00:18:27.594 it's a significant thing. It is fair that it's only one of our goals. 00:18:27.677 --> 00:18:28.637 Like we also want to help 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.505 people write better code and we want to have like a better kind of search engine 00:18:32.588 --> 00:18:33.037 and we want 00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:37.600 to help people be more productive. We also have it just entertain people whatever. 00:18:37.683 --> 00:18:38.157 So it's it 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.522 like we're not a health company. It's one of many things but it is a significant 00:18:41.605 --> 00:18:42.237 part of the human 00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:48.903 experience. If AGI has happens and it's designed to help protect humans and make 00:18:48.987 --> 00:18:50.237 them live longer 00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:55.254 and do better things. What is your worst scenario and what's your best scenario 00:18:55.337 --> 00:18:59.937 for say it exists? Let's just assume it exists. I think in all of those cases, 00:19:00.020 --> 00:19:01.917 people are confused about whether 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.527 they they want to think about it as like a tool or a creature. 00:19:04.611 --> 00:19:05.917 I think it's like this incredible 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:10.177 roar shock test and the way people talk about it says much more about them than it 00:19:10.261 --> 00:19:10.957 has anything to 00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:14.922 say about hi. No one knows obviously and people can do it but you know if you're 00:19:15.005 --> 00:19:18.257 like I think it's kind of always really revealing to people hear people. 00:19:18.341 --> 00:19:19.837 How do you look at it? Um, I think 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:26.920 of it as this tool. Like I think of it as it's going to be it's going to do like 00:19:27.263 --> 00:19:28.557 amazing things, 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:34.572 but it is not going to be this like self-aware thing from the sci-fi movies. 00:19:34.655 --> 00:19:40.701 Let's say the next CEO of Open AI is an AI. Um, you know, I like it. 00:19:40.784 --> 00:19:45.117 I get to like write the prompt for like what I 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.416 would like that AI to go off and do. Mhm. And it may then go do crazy complex 00:19:49.499 --> 00:19:53.221 things. It may look to the world like it's paving these highways and doing whatever. 00:19:53.305 --> 00:19:54.637 But it was still like some person 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.349 had to ask the system to go like accomplish some goal. 00:19:57.433 --> 00:19:58.957 But it comes down to the prompt, 00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:03.216 right? Yeah. Now again, it could be so complex over such a long time horizon. 00:20:03.300 --> 00:20:04.157 So many like side 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:08.423 quests along the way that it doesn't feel like that with having to do with human 00:20:08.507 --> 00:20:13.583 health. It is a bigger and our existence, our actual existence on the planet. Um, 00:20:13.667 --> 00:20:15.517 can ethics keep pace with the 00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:19.940 progress that is that is happening? Ethics already runs behind. 00:20:20.023 --> 00:20:22.397 I was gonna say uh I have some hope 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:29.444 that AI will help us figure out better like win-win systems. You know, 00:20:29.527 --> 00:20:31.357 I think we need new 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:35.029 ideas in the world. And clearly we're not coming up with them on our own. 00:20:35.113 --> 00:20:36.237 So that'd be my positive 00:20:36.320 --> 00:20:41.180 case there. Positive that it that it's in the end it will be better. Yeah. 00:20:41.264 --> 00:20:42.717 in the end that we will 00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:46.355 we will come up with better ethical systems with this tool helping us think 00:20:46.438 --> 00:20:47.277 than without as you 00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:50.674 said the prompt matters like what's the what's the question that's being asked 00:20:50.757 --> 00:20:51.197 in the first 00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:58.280 place just like a Google query um when you think about health care what should 00:20:58.495 --> 00:21:00.077 the prompt be well 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:04.356 more generally than just healthcare although this is it fits really well into 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:05.357 this I I think the 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:12.440 prompt that most people want some version of is help me flourish ish in accordance 00:21:13.298 --> 00:21:14.557 with my goals, 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.194 whatever those are. Maybe help me figure them out, but once I figure them out, 00:21:17.278 --> 00:21:22.477 help me flourish in accordance with my goals over a very long time horizon. Mhm. 00:21:22.560 --> 00:21:24.797 And that is flourish mentally, 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.668 physically, everything. Since you're not using any of these things, 00:21:27.751 --> 00:21:28.397 I'd love to know, 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:31.512 have you heard of something recently that's been crazy around longevity 00:21:31.595 --> 00:21:37.537 that you're like, "Oh, stop it." The ice bath people are so annoying to me. 00:21:37.621 --> 00:21:41.917 They're so uh religious, smug about it. Yeah. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.976 Like they take such pleasure in like telling you, "Oh, my ice bath is, 00:21:45.060 --> 00:21:46.157 you know, 36 degrees. I sit 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:51.213 in for 45. Mine's 35. I sit in for 50." And uh and they're like so convinced it 00:21:51.296 --> 00:21:55.379 works. Maybe it does, but there was this study recently that it doesn't. Yeah. 00:21:55.462 --> 00:21:57.597 And I just sent it to like all these friends 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:01.393 that brag about how miserable they are. Yeah. And they don't like it. Yeah. 00:22:01.476 --> 00:22:02.557 Not the fasting people. 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.202 They drove me crazy. There was a whole period in Silicon Valley where I had to go 00:22:05.285 --> 00:22:05.757 to dinner parties 00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:08.962 with fastic people and then I just sit there and eat the steak or whatever it 00:22:09.046 --> 00:22:13.912 happened to be. Would you upload your brain into the intelligence? 00:22:13.996 --> 00:22:18.637 I I am much I very skeptical. I'm much more focused 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.473 on the downside. I can see ways where that's horrible. Yeah. 00:22:21.556 --> 00:22:22.797 I want to be like mistreated 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:27.255 in a simulation for all of eternity. Right. For all of eternity. Right. 00:22:27.338 --> 00:22:31.497 Yeah. What about um uh putting your brain into another being? You know, 00:22:31.580 --> 00:22:34.477 there's a there's a famous thing where aliens come 00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:38.180 down and they're like, "Why are humans using their meat flaps?" 00:22:38.263 --> 00:22:40.237 It's an old old teleplay. Would you 00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:45.097 like to just be an AI? Would you like to merge with an AI? No, I like my body. 00:22:45.181 --> 00:22:46.157 I like the world. 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:50.492 Like I You wouldn't want to put AI in your brain. A matrix-like solution. 00:22:50.575 --> 00:22:51.917 There's like gradations, 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.722 right? There's like some version of that where I would augment. 00:22:54.806 --> 00:22:56.237 Suddenly you play piano, something 00:22:56.320 --> 00:23:02.249 like that. But oh man, would I be skeptical. How do you want to die? 00:23:02.333 --> 00:23:04.637 Quickly and painlessly. How 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:08.826 so? I don't know. Like, you know, a stroke or heart attack in my sleep when I'm 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:09.357 really old 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:15.480 and I've had a great something like that. And if you could extend your life longer, 00:23:15.564 --> 00:23:19.626 how old would you like to be? I turned 40 recently. I was like, "All right, 00:23:19.709 --> 00:23:21.197 this is kind of traditionally 00:23:21.280 --> 00:23:24.177 about the halfway point." And I like felt okay about that. Mhm. 00:23:24.261 --> 00:23:25.597 I assume I'll live much longer 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:30.040 than 80 if things go well, but I was just like had like a very rich life. 00:23:30.123 --> 00:23:31.197 I'm like I wouldn't 00:23:31.280 --> 00:23:37.100 make change. No. Um but I I do I do really want to stay healthy. 00:23:37.184 --> 00:23:40.320 Like I I have I really value that.