1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,982 Some jobs will go away. I mean, they do with every technological revolution, 2 00:00:03,065 --> 00:00:03,517 many jobs will 3 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,774 just be done differently. There will be all kinds of new jobs created. 4 00:00:06,857 --> 00:00:08,077 You know, it's always pretty 5 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,317 quickly after the big technological revolution. When you think about this, 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:12,237 cuz especially around 7 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:17,197 humanity and healthcare and longevity and us surviving on existence essentially, 8 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,469 it's in the hands of very few people and it's all private. 9 00:00:20,552 --> 00:00:22,557 How does government get more involved 10 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,288 because they just aren't they in the way they used to be involved in science 11 00:00:26,371 --> 00:00:26,877 research and 12 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,377 the beginning of the internet in we have said many times that in a well functioning 13 00:00:31,460 --> 00:00:34,936 society uh you know open AI would have been a government effort. 14 00:00:35,019 --> 00:00:37,037 I could say that about a lot of other 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,442 industries too. How do you help fix that? Uh because you've all moved into the space 16 00:00:41,525 --> 00:00:44,814 right? I mean a lot of people are like oh are you mad at the tech people? 17 00:00:44,897 --> 00:00:46,157 I'm like that's what they do. 18 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,826 They move into spaces. It's the government that's abregated its responsibility. 19 00:00:49,910 --> 00:00:50,477 The government 20 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,722 should be doing the AI research. The government should be doing the longevity 21 00:00:53,806 --> 00:00:54,397 stuff and making 22 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,055 that those things available. The government should be figuring out fusion. 23 00:00:57,138 --> 00:00:57,917 You mostly do interviews 24 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,993 about open AI and other thing. We're going to talk about another area that you're 25 00:01:01,076 --> 00:01:01,677 interested in. And 26 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,954 you and I have talked about you're interested in energy and all kinds 27 00:01:05,037 --> 00:01:06,237 of different things which I 28 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:10,255 think people don't know much about this part which is longevity. Um, 29 00:01:10,338 --> 00:01:11,437 I want you to define 30 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:16,303 what you think you're interested in right now and the way your investment theory 31 00:01:16,387 --> 00:01:19,943 is going on this time. For longevity specifically, for longevity specifically, 32 00:01:20,026 --> 00:01:21,517 I'd say that the broader category is 33 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,545 an interest in healthcare. Um, and I'm interested in longevity for a bunch 34 00:01:26,629 --> 00:01:27,837 of reasons, but I I 35 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,917 remember once someone saying that most diseases are diseases of age. 36 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,597 You know, 20-year-olds don't 37 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,372 get nearly as sick as 80y olds. And so if we can figure out the general purpose 38 00:01:38,455 --> 00:01:42,203 thing here, maybe we can improve healthcare outcomes across the board. 39 00:01:42,286 --> 00:01:43,677 Um I had a passing interest 40 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,410 in longevity for a long time and then when the partial reprogramming discoveries 41 00:01:48,493 --> 00:01:49,357 began to happen, 42 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,779 explain what that is for people. The idea that we could sort of rewind a cellular 43 00:01:54,862 --> 00:01:58,129 age a little bit, not all the way back to a stem cell, which you know, 44 00:01:58,213 --> 00:01:59,917 you don't want to be turned back into goo, 45 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,590 but we could like make your cells a little bit younger, right? Um, 46 00:02:03,673 --> 00:02:05,037 so that seemed like a kind 47 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:11,533 of crazy exciting discovery and I uh ended up making a large investment in a company 48 00:02:11,616 --> 00:02:11,997 called 49 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,342 Retro to pursue that. And what where did it come from? Where did this interest? 50 00:02:16,425 --> 00:02:17,277 Was it you wanted 51 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,646 to live longer or what was the or you were interested in sci-fi or what? 52 00:02:21,730 --> 00:02:26,421 I think kind of all of the above. I I was as as I mentioned like really interested 53 00:02:26,505 --> 00:02:28,237 in healthcare and is there like 54 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:34,510 a I think my whole kind of approach to startups and technology is can we identify 55 00:02:34,593 --> 00:02:35,517 like the crux 56 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:41,985 issue for something and then for healthcare um if we could truly keep you 57 00:02:42,068 --> 00:02:43,757 you know health-wise 58 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,795 younger for much longer that would address a lot of the health issues and so rather 59 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:48,477 than like kind 60 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,880 of try to like fight disease after disease and problem after problem maybe this 61 00:02:51,963 --> 00:02:54,494 was like you know the Gordian knot we could cut through all. 62 00:02:54,578 --> 00:02:56,637 So the idea is most of the costs come at the end 63 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,445 of your life for in healthcare at the most of the cost but also just most of like 64 00:03:00,528 --> 00:03:04,496 the degradations in quality of life right and and living badly essentially. 65 00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:06,317 Were you yourself scared of that 66 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,062 because there is this sort of trope of you you realize the trope of Silicon Valley 67 00:03:11,146 --> 00:03:11,757 guys wanting 68 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,957 to live forever narcissism etc. And there's a lot of examples of that. 69 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,517 You can see Brian Johnson, 70 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:23,374 whatever. All of it is vaguely selfish and sci-fi inspired in some fashion 71 00:03:23,457 --> 00:03:24,957 of becoming a robot, 72 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:31,457 becoming a cyborg, etc. Is that's not your um at least not consciously. No, 73 00:03:31,540 --> 00:03:33,277 I I don't like Steve. 74 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,337 Yeah. By the way, I don't think I don't think a technology like retro will make 75 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:36,957 you live for No, 76 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,662 that's correct. I think you'll be healthier for longer and then a very 77 00:03:39,746 --> 00:03:43,955 steep. So, you just have healthier for longer, not live forever. 78 00:03:44,038 --> 00:03:47,837 I definitely don't want to get, you know, really 79 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,787 sick for a long time. So, explain what Retro is doing from and why you picked 80 00:03:51,870 --> 00:03:52,557 that particular 81 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,348 company because there's lots of people sort of hitting this from there are a lot 82 00:03:55,431 --> 00:03:55,837 of things now. 83 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,769 At the time, there were not as many. This broad area of partial reprogramming seemed 84 00:03:59,852 --> 00:04:05,305 to me like the kind of thing that looked incredibly promising in the lab. Um, 85 00:04:05,389 --> 00:04:07,917 was one of the few approaches that 86 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,745 I thought could really work like across a a whole person. Mh. 87 00:04:12,828 --> 00:04:15,357 and seemed worth pursuing. I have 88 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,422 become increasingly negative on the ability for academia to make things 89 00:04:19,506 --> 00:04:22,838 happen. I think academia is still really great at some things, early discovery, 90 00:04:22,921 --> 00:04:24,237 but it's like all right, if we really 91 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,491 want to like take this idea and maybe make it into something that can really help 92 00:04:28,575 --> 00:04:29,437 people, uh maybe a 93 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,756 startup is a good idea, right? Which spoken like a true Silicon Valley person. 94 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:33,437 You know, I have 95 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,383 my bias obviously, but sometimes it works. Space travel, everything. 96 00:04:36,467 --> 00:04:40,117 Sometimes it works. The goal is add 10 years of health span. Mhm. So, you know, 97 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,637 maybe it doesn't keep you alive any longer at all, 98 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,771 but you you're healthier for longer. And the the approach that I am personally most 99 00:04:47,854 --> 00:04:48,637 excited about, 100 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:55,720 is give you um some proteins, uh some RNA or DNA that will express those proteins, 101 00:04:57,241 --> 00:04:58,717 whatever it is, 102 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:04,693 um but somehow do something to your cells that will partially reprogram back them 103 00:05:04,776 --> 00:05:09,965 back to a younger state. A lot of people we've talked to are all pointing to AI as 104 00:05:10,048 --> 00:05:11,757 an important tool in whether 105 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:15,683 it's cancer research, whether it's all kinds of whoever is doing approaching 106 00:05:15,767 --> 00:05:16,717 these things. Talk a 107 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,910 little bit about the role that something like open AI and AI in general will have. 108 00:05:20,993 --> 00:05:21,677 It's one of the 109 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,183 healthcare is one of the biggest uses of chat GBT and with GPT5 um we made a big 110 00:05:26,266 --> 00:05:27,197 push to improve it 111 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:31,028 for healthcare. People use it to understand their health all the time. 112 00:05:31,112 --> 00:05:34,257 They upload their medical records. They ask you questions about symptoms. 113 00:05:34,341 --> 00:05:36,237 You can like read a lot of stories on the internet 114 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,831 about people using this in super important ways and obviously we think that's great. 115 00:05:39,914 --> 00:05:44,707 So with GPT5 we did a big push to make it better at health related queries. 116 00:05:44,790 --> 00:05:46,237 So when you think about 117 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:53,029 that uses that's patient uses doctor's uses in 10 years what could it be? 118 00:05:53,112 --> 00:05:58,597 I've heard a lot of doctors and healthcare workers say that, you know, 119 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,397 they hope that in 10 years everybody gets and they 120 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,335 think this they literally mean this everybody gets better healthare than 121 00:06:06,418 --> 00:06:07,757 the best healthcare anyone 122 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:13,102 can get today. You know, they imagine a world where you can start with an AI 123 00:06:13,185 --> 00:06:17,036 medical advisor service and you can say here's what's going on for me or hey, 124 00:06:17,119 --> 00:06:18,877 I'm just this is my normal life. here's 125 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:24,992 my sleep data, what I'm eating, my blood tests, my symptoms. And you know, 126 00:06:25,075 --> 00:06:26,397 a a service could 127 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,820 early on say, "Hey, you're at risk of this. You need to go test for this. 128 00:06:28,903 --> 00:06:29,517 You need to make this 129 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,735 change. You need to go to this specialist doctor. This is a little weird. 130 00:06:32,818 --> 00:06:36,889 You need to go here." The other day I had a Sounds crazy. I used CHT DPD for this. 131 00:06:36,972 --> 00:06:38,797 I had a thing on my hand. I'm like, 132 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,083 "What is it? A wart? What is it?" I took a picture. Picture what it was. 133 00:06:43,167 --> 00:06:43,917 It really did. 134 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,339 It was I had gone through a pricker bush and I had forgotten I had done that. 135 00:06:47,422 --> 00:06:50,209 And it's like it said, "Did you go to a pricker bush?" And I said, 136 00:06:50,292 --> 00:06:52,717 "I did go through a p and you know and I said that's what 137 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,705 it looks like." Which was interesting. Which was a good outcome, right? 138 00:06:56,788 --> 00:06:57,997 Talk a little bit about 139 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,248 the things you're worried about because you know there's a lot of things. 140 00:07:01,331 --> 00:07:02,317 There's a lot of stories 141 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,219 of things that get out of control. You recently had a story uh of a of a kid who 142 00:07:07,302 --> 00:07:08,077 was using chat 143 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,199 GPT to tragic effects. What are the things you worry about when you're trying 144 00:07:13,283 --> 00:07:14,397 to fine-tune this? 145 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,615 Mental health in general is something that I'm increasingly worried about with AI. 146 00:07:19,698 --> 00:07:24,317 Again, I think it can be done for tremendous good. 147 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,637 Uh but this is this is happening very fast, 148 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,126 you know, like I think Chesp is like a little bit more than or coming up on three 149 00:07:32,209 --> 00:07:32,557 years old, 150 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:38,557 right? And for the first year it was used as a sort of curiosity, maybe a Google 151 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,533 replacement a little bit, right? Maybe uh like, you know, 152 00:07:41,616 --> 00:07:43,600 write my essay for school or whatever. 153 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:51,208 Only with more recent evolutions did people start to use it as a life coach, 154 00:07:51,291 --> 00:07:53,197 sort of a therapist and 155 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,194 you know close advisor, things like that. We have learned that a lot of people need 156 00:07:57,278 --> 00:07:57,917 someone to talk 157 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,945 to and to give them advice. And I am worried that given how quickly this 158 00:08:04,028 --> 00:08:05,117 is moving that 159 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:10,341 societal scale behavior could change in a way that affects societal scale mental 160 00:08:10,424 --> 00:08:11,517 health. and we are 161 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,006 working super hard to get a handle on that and understand what's happening. 162 00:08:14,089 --> 00:08:17,801 But it is something I'm worried about. So you engage 250 doctors in doing this. 163 00:08:17,885 --> 00:08:19,357 One of the things most people 164 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,797 tell me when they're talking about AI's impact on healthcare, 165 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,577 longevity, everything else is there has to be that human element. In a lot of ways, 166 00:08:26,660 --> 00:08:30,317 it you almost want to eliminate the human in it. No, 167 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:35,717 it tends towards that way. I am pretty sure though that people even if they know 168 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:36,797 the human doctor 169 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,999 is going to perform worse than the AI doctor will significantly prefer the human 170 00:08:41,082 --> 00:08:44,746 doctor. I certainly would. I want my doctor to use all these tools. 171 00:08:44,829 --> 00:08:47,437 I want to use these tools myself. But uh there 172 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,967 is like something very deep of have not had that many serious health issues 173 00:08:52,051 --> 00:08:53,357 but when I did have one 174 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,108 I really would not have been happy like leaving my fate in the hands of an I 175 00:08:57,191 --> 00:08:57,997 really cared about 176 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,366 that human doctor and their humanness. Some of it's driven by a frustration 177 00:09:02,450 --> 00:09:05,597 with health care, of course, the difficulty of making even an appointment. 178 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:06,797 No matter where you are on the 179 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,564 economic scale, unless you're very rich, you can invite the doctors in. 180 00:09:10,647 --> 00:09:15,655 Most people have difficulty getting care. Let's say I got like bad poison oak. Mhm. 181 00:09:15,738 --> 00:09:17,917 Um and I took a picture and I sent 182 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,489 it to ChachiBT and and I was like, "It says you have poison oak." 183 00:09:20,573 --> 00:09:21,677 And I said, "That makes sense. 184 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,300 I was hiking the other day. Like those are the exposed areas. 185 00:09:24,384 --> 00:09:25,677 I think you're right. I'm really 186 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,491 uncomfortable." and it's like, "Would you like a prescript a prescription 187 00:09:29,574 --> 00:09:33,817 for predinazone? I'm sure this is your problem." I would say, "Great." Yeah, 188 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:36,717 I'm comfortable with that. On the other hand, if 189 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,016 I have like some really weird symptoms and an AI says, "That could be cancer. 190 00:09:41,099 --> 00:09:42,077 You better go see a 191 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,480 doctor." I will definitely go figure out a way to get that appointment and really 192 00:09:45,564 --> 00:09:46,237 want to go talk to 193 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,862 a doctor. GPT5 is the first time where there have been real small but real 194 00:09:50,945 --> 00:09:52,237 examples of this. Give 195 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:57,174 me an example. There was like a I saw on Twitter a couple of days ago there 196 00:09:57,258 --> 00:09:58,557 was like a math proof 197 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,846 and then uh someone said maybe we can do a little bit better and ask GPT5 Pro to work 198 00:10:03,929 --> 00:10:04,717 on it and came 199 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,149 up with a novel and better solution. Mhm. So it could do little discoveries starting 200 00:10:09,232 --> 00:10:12,913 to but but a real useful like actual discovery that humans couldn't do. Yeah. 201 00:10:12,996 --> 00:10:14,237 Or hadn't done or computers 202 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:20,397 to this point hadn't done. So you said by 2035 you anticipate AI will be able 203 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,597 to cure or cure 204 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:26,071 at least treat most diseases really mitigate some people. Yeah. 205 00:10:26,154 --> 00:10:28,557 Treat mitigate something like that. 206 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,595 Right. Right. But I think we are I mean again this this research project 207 00:10:32,678 --> 00:10:33,997 with retro is one example 208 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,126 where it's like wow this is like this just pushed us years ahead in our research 209 00:10:38,209 --> 00:10:38,797 and I have to 210 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,729 mostly go with what the biologists and the pharma companies say here. 211 00:10:41,812 --> 00:10:42,877 This is way out of my field 212 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,258 of expertise. So this is squeezing time is what you're talking about or finding new 213 00:10:47,341 --> 00:10:47,997 insights. Both 214 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,850 speeding up the rate of discovery of new insights and then making the insights 215 00:10:52,933 --> 00:10:54,157 themselves. Yeah. Now 216 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,891 that quote about 2035 that heard people experts say that's when they think we know 217 00:10:58,974 --> 00:10:59,757 what it is, how 218 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,114 long it takes to actually get that into the clinic there people are like that's 219 00:11:03,198 --> 00:11:03,837 getting worse and 220 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,954 worse. One of the things is incredible after all this time we know very little 221 00:11:08,037 --> 00:11:08,957 about human biology 222 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,063 especially the brain for example. Talk about how super intelligence overcomes 223 00:11:13,147 --> 00:11:17,200 that. We are not that smart and biology is enormously complex. 224 00:11:17,284 --> 00:11:20,557 We can imagine kind of anything. We can we can 225 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,508 have someone explain enormously complex things to us and then we can get it. 226 00:11:25,592 --> 00:11:26,877 But to discover these 227 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,197 things requires a lot of brain power and in many cases maybe more than we have. 228 00:11:31,281 --> 00:11:32,237 If an intelligence, 229 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:37,101 you know, a thousand times or a million times smarter than us can figure out 230 00:11:37,184 --> 00:11:37,997 really how all 231 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,120 of this works and then explain it to us, I believe we'll be able to understand it 232 00:11:42,204 --> 00:11:45,485 even if it was too complex for us to figure out in the first place. Yes. 233 00:11:45,568 --> 00:11:47,517 So it will give us the answer. Yes. And then 234 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,805 we'll go, "Oh, right. You and I can understand very complex physics, 235 00:11:50,888 --> 00:11:54,509 but it would have taken lifetimes of smarter people than us to figure it out." 236 00:11:54,592 --> 00:11:56,237 You could understand complex, too. I 237 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,633 had lunch with my son the other day and he's tried to and it was a waste of time 238 00:11:59,716 --> 00:12:02,963 and we moved on to the super I'd love to take a crack at explaining it. Yeah, 239 00:12:03,047 --> 00:12:04,557 I get what you mean. I was I had a a 240 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,676 blood thing where I have low white blood cells and doctors diagnosed it 241 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,919 as neutropenia which means low white blood cells. That was an that was a description, 242 00:12:13,002 --> 00:12:14,557 not an explanation or a diagnosis. 243 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,309 And I was like, well, why? Well, because it's low white blood cells. 244 00:12:17,393 --> 00:12:21,461 And I was like, but that's like there's that's not an answer. It's description. 245 00:12:21,545 --> 00:12:23,037 And that's where med medical 246 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,012 people often hide behind a description versus a diagnosis. 247 00:12:26,096 --> 00:12:27,757 And I remember looking standing in 248 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,544 front of a nurse and she said, "Oh, a lot of women who just had babies have this." 249 00:12:31,627 --> 00:12:34,547 And I was like, "Really?" She goes, "Yeah, I've seen a lot." 250 00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:37,277 And but it was in her head from memory. And I looked 251 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,291 behind her and there was sheets and sheets of paper of all the patients. 252 00:12:40,374 --> 00:12:44,380 And I thought, "The answer is in there somewhere." Is in there somewhere. Yeah. 253 00:12:44,463 --> 00:12:46,077 What I think we can do for sure 254 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:51,377 is really empower individual people to be able to advocate for better outcomes 255 00:12:51,461 --> 00:12:55,664 for themselves. Where do you find the problem in accepting these technologies? 256 00:12:55,748 --> 00:12:56,877 Is it the medical is it 257 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,194 is it pharmaceutical companies? Is it I would think pharmaceutical companies would 258 00:13:00,277 --> 00:13:00,477 embrace 259 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:05,466 it so they can do drug discovery faster. We have not seen the kind of rejection 260 00:13:05,549 --> 00:13:10,872 from the medical community that people told us we were going to get. In fact, 261 00:13:10,956 --> 00:13:13,437 every time I go visit like a clinic 262 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,502 or a hospital or whatever, they're and I'm kind of asked, I'm like, you know, 263 00:13:17,586 --> 00:13:21,137 how's it going with us, whatever, they're like, don't tell anyone, 264 00:13:21,221 --> 00:13:24,077 but every doctor here uses this all the time and we 265 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,942 just do it at home and, you know, please make a HIPPA compliant version so we can 266 00:13:27,025 --> 00:13:27,437 do it at work, 267 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,398 but we all like we all love it. When you think about extending longevity, 268 00:13:32,481 --> 00:13:33,757 you're saying you're 269 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,541 giving power information in the hands of people. How does that work? 270 00:13:37,624 --> 00:13:38,877 Does you think it has an 271 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,721 implication on healthcare and on longevity besides detection? Yeah, 272 00:13:41,804 --> 00:13:43,037 I think these are like somewhat 273 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,197 different. I mean, I think that what we've been talking about mostly is giving 274 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:47,677 consumers 275 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:54,760 access to like healthare good information is one thing about themselves 276 00:13:56,010 --> 00:14:00,461 in particular like a theoretical thing. This is like here people do it. 277 00:14:00,544 --> 00:14:02,637 A lot of people do it every day. Mhm. And 278 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:08,764 then there's this other category of can we use AI to do better longevity research 279 00:14:08,848 --> 00:14:09,597 with any of 280 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,946 the companies or approaches that are working on it and I think those are pretty 281 00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:15,649 different. I mean the same intelligence matters for both of them. 282 00:14:15,732 --> 00:14:17,757 So AI will work for both of them but they're quite 283 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:23,030 different approaches. People want like consumers patients want it to work so 284 00:14:23,113 --> 00:14:24,557 badly that it attracts 285 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,781 charlatans and they make a lot of money cuz people will try anything right? 286 00:14:28,864 --> 00:14:33,795 you know, whatever. The crazier the better. It sounds like and you So, 287 00:14:33,878 --> 00:14:37,917 I find that obviously really distasteful. It speaks 288 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,182 to how much people want something, you know? 289 00:14:40,266 --> 00:14:42,397 It's like everybody wants a magic pill. You 290 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,057 tell people like sleep eight hours a night, get exercise, 291 00:14:45,140 --> 00:14:46,877 eat reasonably healthy, and don't drink 292 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,348 so much. They're like, "Nah, [__] you. I'm not going to do any of that. 293 00:14:51,431 --> 00:14:55,949 I want a pill." Um, and so in the in the like search for this cheat code, 294 00:14:56,032 --> 00:14:59,037 people take all kinds of crazy stuff. limited to 295 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,287 no medical evidence. Do you fall prey to that? Do you At this point, 296 00:15:03,370 --> 00:15:05,037 it's hard not to, is it? Uh, 297 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,067 I mean, it's all around. When the GLP1s first came on the scene, 298 00:15:09,151 --> 00:15:10,957 long time ago, like many, many 299 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,592 years ago, right, there was this uh compounding pharmacy that'll make it 300 00:15:13,675 --> 00:15:14,397 for you. I had no idea 301 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:20,933 what a compounding pharmacy was. Uh, so they make it for me. Um, 302 00:15:21,016 --> 00:15:23,997 they screw up the dosing and I 303 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,983 do I don't remember the exact number, but a mega overdose. Yeah. 304 00:15:27,067 --> 00:15:28,477 And I had never taken before, so 305 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,575 I had like no tolerance or whatever, right? And I like injected like a, 306 00:15:31,658 --> 00:15:35,527 you know, it's like a Sunday or something. Let's call it 11:00 a.m. 2 p.m. 3 p.m. 307 00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:37,837 start feeling really bad. Convinced I'm like 308 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,915 really sick. I have my friends over for dinner that night. 309 00:15:39,998 --> 00:15:41,277 My now husband looks at me. He's like, 310 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,935 "You're dying." I don't know. You're like, "You got some crazy you're dying." 311 00:15:44,019 --> 00:15:48,531 Yeah. And I hadn't put it together that it was this yet. Oh, wow. 312 00:15:48,614 --> 00:15:53,197 And uh I I go to bed feeling horrible. Mhm. Puking all 313 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,744 night. Whatever. I now have kind of put together that maybe it has to do 314 00:15:57,827 --> 00:15:59,197 with this. Maybe um and 315 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:04,413 I uh you know my pulse is like 150 something like that like blood sugar 316 00:16:04,496 --> 00:16:09,270 unbelievably like just like fully crashing in the morning with the ER. Yeah. Um, 317 00:16:09,353 --> 00:16:11,757 and then like over the next day, they gave me 318 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,491 like a Google strip, whatever. Over the next day, we kind of figure out, 319 00:16:14,575 --> 00:16:15,517 but there's nothing you can 320 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,327 do. You just wait, right? And an interesting and unknown thing about 321 00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:24,626 this is the you or not that well known is it makes you not have a desire to eat. 322 00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:26,557 Take enough of it makes you have a desire, 323 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,718 not have a desire for anything else. So, I spend and I'm usually like a very kind 324 00:16:30,801 --> 00:16:31,437 of like I need 325 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,347 a lot of like I I I need like new stuff to think about. Yes, I know. 326 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:36,957 I'm the same way. And I have 327 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,208 these few days laying in this hospital bed staring up at a white ceiling, 328 00:16:40,291 --> 00:16:41,277 right? Thinking nothing, 329 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,004 not looking at my phone, not wanting anything, right? Feeling terrible, 330 00:16:45,088 --> 00:16:46,317 right? But just no desire 331 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,173 for anything, right? One thing that is better about longevity is everybody gets 332 00:16:51,256 --> 00:16:52,157 old. Mhm. And so 333 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,381 there's like a mass mass market there. You don't have to worry about that part. 334 00:16:55,464 --> 00:16:56,157 Um I do think these 335 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,666 things where there's only like, you know, 20,000 people in the world that have 336 00:16:58,749 --> 00:17:02,050 a disease, it's not so obvious about how to like make capitalism work for this. 337 00:17:02,134 --> 00:17:03,837 I think anything that we could come up 338 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,917 with that would add 10 years of health span, 339 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,997 we'll have the the benefits of capitalism to 340 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,692 help us make it cheap. And I think that's what I would do. You do. 341 00:17:10,775 --> 00:17:11,917 Are you worried about saying a 342 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,380 certain amount of rich all the sci-fi is around the rich people taking all 343 00:17:15,464 --> 00:17:16,317 the goodies? I mean, 344 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,535 the version of this I think about this much more for AI than longevity, 345 00:17:19,619 --> 00:17:20,397 but for AI, yes, it 346 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,605 absolutely has to be fixed. I think we're actually doing a really good job right now 347 00:17:24,688 --> 00:17:25,357 of distributing 348 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:31,247 the benefits of AI quite broadly. Um, but you can imagine a world where it doesn't 349 00:17:31,331 --> 00:17:32,397 go that way. And 350 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,895 if you have a lot of capital and you put it all into your AI brain, 351 00:17:35,978 --> 00:17:37,357 that's like a huge advantage 352 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,541 over people who don't. How many people at Open are focusing on time research 353 00:17:41,624 --> 00:17:42,477 on health related 354 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,957 goals? I actually don't know the size of the chat health team. It's not tiny, 355 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,237 but it's it's and it's 356 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,260 growing fast. And then we have the scientific research teams. 357 00:17:51,343 --> 00:17:52,797 One of the complaints of course 358 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,047 is that it's and I it's not just you. It's and it happened early in the internet. 359 00:17:57,130 --> 00:17:57,677 I remember a 360 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,809 lot of these companies saying, "We're here to help humanity." And I thought, 361 00:18:00,892 --> 00:18:01,757 "No, you're not. You're 362 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,502 not really." And I always used to reference the the Twilight Zone episode 363 00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:07,997 to serve man, which was 364 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,113 the aliens come to help us and then they want to eat us essentially. 365 00:18:11,197 --> 00:18:12,397 How do you push back against 366 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:17,599 the idea that the health goals is just marketing for the other things you're 367 00:18:17,682 --> 00:18:19,037 doing? I mean, again, 368 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:23,312 it's like I would bet it's a top three use case of CHBT at this point. 369 00:18:23,395 --> 00:18:24,717 Like it's a significant 370 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,594 it's a significant thing. It is fair that it's only one of our goals. 371 00:18:27,677 --> 00:18:28,637 Like we also want to help 372 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,505 people write better code and we want to have like a better kind of search engine 373 00:18:32,588 --> 00:18:33,037 and we want 374 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:37,600 to help people be more productive. We also have it just entertain people whatever. 375 00:18:37,683 --> 00:18:38,157 So it's it 376 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,522 like we're not a health company. It's one of many things but it is a significant 377 00:18:41,605 --> 00:18:42,237 part of the human 378 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:48,903 experience. If AGI has happens and it's designed to help protect humans and make 379 00:18:48,987 --> 00:18:50,237 them live longer 380 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:55,254 and do better things. What is your worst scenario and what's your best scenario 381 00:18:55,337 --> 00:18:59,937 for say it exists? Let's just assume it exists. I think in all of those cases, 382 00:19:00,020 --> 00:19:01,917 people are confused about whether 383 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,527 they they want to think about it as like a tool or a creature. 384 00:19:04,611 --> 00:19:05,917 I think it's like this incredible 385 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,177 roar shock test and the way people talk about it says much more about them than it 386 00:19:10,261 --> 00:19:10,957 has anything to 387 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,922 say about hi. No one knows obviously and people can do it but you know if you're 388 00:19:15,005 --> 00:19:18,257 like I think it's kind of always really revealing to people hear people. 389 00:19:18,341 --> 00:19:19,837 How do you look at it? Um, I think 390 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:26,920 of it as this tool. Like I think of it as it's going to be it's going to do like 391 00:19:27,263 --> 00:19:28,557 amazing things, 392 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:34,572 but it is not going to be this like self-aware thing from the sci-fi movies. 393 00:19:34,655 --> 00:19:40,701 Let's say the next CEO of Open AI is an AI. Um, you know, I like it. 394 00:19:40,784 --> 00:19:45,117 I get to like write the prompt for like what I 395 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,416 would like that AI to go off and do. Mhm. And it may then go do crazy complex 396 00:19:49,499 --> 00:19:53,221 things. It may look to the world like it's paving these highways and doing whatever. 397 00:19:53,305 --> 00:19:54,637 But it was still like some person 398 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,349 had to ask the system to go like accomplish some goal. 399 00:19:57,433 --> 00:19:58,957 But it comes down to the prompt, 400 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,216 right? Yeah. Now again, it could be so complex over such a long time horizon. 401 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:04,157 So many like side 402 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,423 quests along the way that it doesn't feel like that with having to do with human 403 00:20:08,507 --> 00:20:13,583 health. It is a bigger and our existence, our actual existence on the planet. Um, 404 00:20:13,667 --> 00:20:15,517 can ethics keep pace with the 405 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,940 progress that is that is happening? Ethics already runs behind. 406 00:20:20,023 --> 00:20:22,397 I was gonna say uh I have some hope 407 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:29,444 that AI will help us figure out better like win-win systems. You know, 408 00:20:29,527 --> 00:20:31,357 I think we need new 409 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,029 ideas in the world. And clearly we're not coming up with them on our own. 410 00:20:35,113 --> 00:20:36,237 So that'd be my positive 411 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,180 case there. Positive that it that it's in the end it will be better. Yeah. 412 00:20:41,264 --> 00:20:42,717 in the end that we will 413 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,355 we will come up with better ethical systems with this tool helping us think 414 00:20:46,438 --> 00:20:47,277 than without as you 415 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,674 said the prompt matters like what's the what's the question that's being asked 416 00:20:50,757 --> 00:20:51,197 in the first 417 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:58,280 place just like a Google query um when you think about health care what should 418 00:20:58,495 --> 00:21:00,077 the prompt be well 419 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,356 more generally than just healthcare although this is it fits really well into 420 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:05,357 this I I think the 421 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:12,440 prompt that most people want some version of is help me flourish ish in accordance 422 00:21:13,298 --> 00:21:14,557 with my goals, 423 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,194 whatever those are. Maybe help me figure them out, but once I figure them out, 424 00:21:17,278 --> 00:21:22,477 help me flourish in accordance with my goals over a very long time horizon. Mhm. 425 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,797 And that is flourish mentally, 426 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,668 physically, everything. Since you're not using any of these things, 427 00:21:27,751 --> 00:21:28,397 I'd love to know, 428 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,512 have you heard of something recently that's been crazy around longevity 429 00:21:31,595 --> 00:21:37,537 that you're like, "Oh, stop it." The ice bath people are so annoying to me. 430 00:21:37,621 --> 00:21:41,917 They're so uh religious, smug about it. Yeah. 431 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,976 Like they take such pleasure in like telling you, "Oh, my ice bath is, 432 00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:46,157 you know, 36 degrees. I sit 433 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,213 in for 45. Mine's 35. I sit in for 50." And uh and they're like so convinced it 434 00:21:51,296 --> 00:21:55,379 works. Maybe it does, but there was this study recently that it doesn't. Yeah. 435 00:21:55,462 --> 00:21:57,597 And I just sent it to like all these friends 436 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,393 that brag about how miserable they are. Yeah. And they don't like it. Yeah. 437 00:22:01,476 --> 00:22:02,557 Not the fasting people. 438 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,202 They drove me crazy. There was a whole period in Silicon Valley where I had to go 439 00:22:05,285 --> 00:22:05,757 to dinner parties 440 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,962 with fastic people and then I just sit there and eat the steak or whatever it 441 00:22:09,046 --> 00:22:13,912 happened to be. Would you upload your brain into the intelligence? 442 00:22:13,996 --> 00:22:18,637 I I am much I very skeptical. I'm much more focused 443 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,473 on the downside. I can see ways where that's horrible. Yeah. 444 00:22:21,556 --> 00:22:22,797 I want to be like mistreated 445 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,255 in a simulation for all of eternity. Right. For all of eternity. Right. 446 00:22:27,338 --> 00:22:31,497 Yeah. What about um uh putting your brain into another being? You know, 447 00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:34,477 there's a there's a famous thing where aliens come 448 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,180 down and they're like, "Why are humans using their meat flaps?" 449 00:22:38,263 --> 00:22:40,237 It's an old old teleplay. Would you 450 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,097 like to just be an AI? Would you like to merge with an AI? No, I like my body. 451 00:22:45,181 --> 00:22:46,157 I like the world. 452 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,492 Like I You wouldn't want to put AI in your brain. A matrix-like solution. 453 00:22:50,575 --> 00:22:51,917 There's like gradations, 454 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,722 right? There's like some version of that where I would augment. 455 00:22:54,806 --> 00:22:56,237 Suddenly you play piano, something 456 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:02,249 like that. But oh man, would I be skeptical. How do you want to die? 457 00:23:02,333 --> 00:23:04,637 Quickly and painlessly. How 458 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,826 so? I don't know. Like, you know, a stroke or heart attack in my sleep when I'm 459 00:23:08,910 --> 00:23:09,357 really old 460 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:15,480 and I've had a great something like that. And if you could extend your life longer, 461 00:23:15,564 --> 00:23:19,626 how old would you like to be? I turned 40 recently. I was like, "All right, 462 00:23:19,709 --> 00:23:21,197 this is kind of traditionally 463 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,177 about the halfway point." And I like felt okay about that. Mhm. 464 00:23:24,261 --> 00:23:25,597 I assume I'll live much longer 465 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,040 than 80 if things go well, but I was just like had like a very rich life. 466 00:23:30,123 --> 00:23:31,197 I'm like I wouldn't 467 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:37,100 make change. No. Um but I I do I do really want to stay healthy. 468 00:23:37,184 --> 00:23:40,320 Like I I have I really value that.