WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.917 The capitalist approach is messy but you have you have dynamism on your side. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:05.277 Just come back to the big picture thing. 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.397 Is America in aggregate a force for good in the world? Is it important for the 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.597 world that America succeed? Is it important that American values, Western 00:00:11.680 --> 00:00:15.117 values are preeminent of the world? Is it important that the world not devolve 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:19.117 into a complete Soviet communism everywhere? The other direction is 00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:23.917 literally fighting everything about our culture, everything about our history, 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:25.757 everything about our system. And the 00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:28.957 fact that it has appeal is like a weird 00:00:29.040 --> 00:00:31.677 psychological defect some people have. 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:33.917 They just always want central control. 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.117 They always think it's better. 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.517 >> And by the way, it routinely doesn't work. Like it like routinely fails 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.237 because the world is too dynamic and that's not nearly a fast enough 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:43.597 iteration cycle. >> The thing that people want is exactly 00:00:43.680 --> 00:00:47.517 what we named the category. How do we build American dynamism? How do we build 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:49.357 Silicon Valley in our own country? 00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.837 >> Geopolitically, we entered a new era. 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:56.557 We're in this exciting moment in time where both the need and the demand for 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:58.957 new technologies is greater than it's ever been. 00:00:59.040 --> 00:01:01.837 >> The creator of the concept of the five-year plan was of course Joseph 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:05.597 Stalin. Like it it was literally it was 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.957 literally the Soviet Union run as 5-year plans. I'll bend a little bit. He comes 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:10.557 from the People's Republic of Berkeley. 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:14.237 Um the old model of World War II era, 00:01:14.320 --> 00:01:15.997 mass machinery and mass men to win wars. 00:01:16.080 --> 00:01:19.037 Like those days are long over. This should play greatly to America's benefit 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:21.837 if we unleash our strength with flexibility, innovation, creativity, 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:25.197 dynamism, uh, and apply that into the battlefield of the future. Like, we we 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:29.720 really ought to win if we're really able to do that. 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:37.437 I thought we'd start with a bit of a opener. I want to ask Ben and Mark to 00:01:37.520 --> 00:01:40.557 tell us about the moment when we got conviction that this was worth creating 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:44.317 its own category fund around. Ben, do you want to take the first step? 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:46.877 >> Yeah. Well, I would say that, you know, 00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:50.317 Mark and I kind of always were of the 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:54.237 view in an abstract sense that um we had 00:01:54.320 --> 00:01:57.437 to integrate the, you know, American 00:01:57.520 --> 00:02:01.117 business and uh American defense back 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:03.437 together because we were falling behind. 00:02:03.520 --> 00:02:05.357 we we kind of knew the companies that we 00:02:05.440 --> 00:02:10.557 were investing in and we knew the companies that uh we were buying um you 00:02:10.640 --> 00:02:13.917 know missiles and aircraft carriers from and like they weren't of the same 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.197 caliber in terms of the where they were 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:19.117 on the technology curve and so we knew 00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:22.397 it was a kind of a a national security 00:02:22.480 --> 00:02:24.797 problem for the country. Um, but we 00:02:24.880 --> 00:02:27.597 didn't, you know, we didn't have a a 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:31.997 plan. And then, as I recall, 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.757 David, um, said, you know, there's this 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:40.397 woman, Katherine Bole, who I want to recruit, and she has this very, very 00:02:40.480 --> 00:02:45.677 good idea. Can you guys talk to her about it? And that's when she uh said, 00:02:45.760 --> 00:02:48.717 "Look, we should call it American Dynamism and we should build this 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:52.157 thing." And it was a very easy sale for 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:55.917 us, I would just say. Yeah. And maybe I could just take take a 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:00.157 step back. Um, so um, uh, some of you on this call are too young to remember 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:04.397 this, but um, you know, there was an earlier era in Silicon Valley. Um, uh, 00:03:04.480 --> 00:03:06.317 and it actually wasn't that long ago. 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.117 Um, and Ben and I were both, you know, lucky enough and maybe of the right 00:03:09.200 --> 00:03:12.397 generation to be part of it, which was, uh, you know, Silicon Valley and the 00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:15.517 United States, let's say, the the mission of the United States as a 00:03:15.600 --> 00:03:19.117 country. Um, and then, you know, sort of the submissions of of, uh, you know, not 00:03:19.200 --> 00:03:23.037 just economic and technological success, but also, you know, military success. uh 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:27.117 and intelligence success um and you know our ability to you know propagate our 00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:30.317 our you know our our way of life you know not just in in the country but but 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:34.237 around the world um you know there had actually been like a fairly tight degree 00:03:34.320 --> 00:03:37.597 of of of integration of cooperation and if you actually trace the history of 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:41.197 Silicon Valley back before even before World War II there was there was a lot 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.717 of the original uh defense uh technology work that happened in in Northern 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:48.237 California where we sit today um and then you know for sure through you know 00:03:48.320 --> 00:03:51.757 from the ' 50s through to the I would say to the '90s um you know it's just it 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.637 was just taken as given that this, you know, this was, you know, this was sort 00:03:54.720 --> 00:03:57.757 of inherently an alliance. Um, you know, with a with a shared with a shared 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:01.677 American mission. Um, and so, you know, many many great American tech companies, 00:04:01.760 --> 00:04:04.637 you know, including all all the big names, um, from the ' 50s through the 00:04:04.720 --> 00:04:07.277 '90s all had, you know, very big government businesses, defense 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.077 businesses, you know, were very important to the to the to the national 00:04:10.160 --> 00:04:12.397 mission. And then, you know, Ben and I in the ' 90s, you know, we when we built 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:15.757 our company, Netscape, like that that was always front and center for us. 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:20.637 >> Uh, my my first uh uh sales call to the Pentagon was in 1994. Um when I I don't 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:22.477 think I actually owned a suit yet. Um 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:25.917 and uh and uh you know so 31 years ago 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.997 um and um you know our our company Netcape ended up being a major supplier 00:04:30.080 --> 00:04:33.677 uh of technology to the to >> Yeah. Actually both Mark and I had for 00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:38.317 years top secret clearance um because of those those deals. 00:04:38.400 --> 00:04:41.037 >> Yeah. So we you know we've been working in you know we we we were working in 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:44.637 Pentagon and and and in you know related agencies for you know for a very on the 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:47.677 civilian side also for for a very long time. and we just sort of you know 00:04:47.760 --> 00:04:51.517 considered it kind of natural um and um and you know I'm really proud of the 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:53.917 work that we did there and it turned out to be a very big part of our business 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.917 also um and then extended over time to also governments outside the US that 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:01.037 were American allies um and so for us this was always very natural and I think 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.077 this was even everything I'm saying is almost like non-controversial up until 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:07.837 probably the 2000s um uh and then um you 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.597 know then basically for you know for the last 15 or 20 years you know by the way 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:14.157 for a variety of reasons including you know reasons that people feel very 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.997 strongly about we could talk about for a long time but you just a much greater 00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:21.197 degree of contention and you know escalating in some cases to just 00:05:21.280 --> 00:05:24.237 outright hostility you know kind of developed you know and I would say in 00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:27.917 most directions from from from Silicon Valley let's say large components of 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:31.357 Silicon Valley not not all but you know significant you know companies for sure 00:05:31.440 --> 00:05:35.597 you know hostility towards uh DC um and hostility towards you know any sense of 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.997 national mission national purpose um and then um you know and you know quite 00:05:40.080 --> 00:05:43.517 frankly that feeling was quickly reciprocated by Washington uh you know 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.397 back back to uh back to Silicon Valley and there's plenty of people from 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.917 Washington in the last 20 years who've made a point uh of how much they you 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.357 know they they hate us. And so it just it felt like we kind of to me it felt 00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:57.357 like we entered this kind of you know deevolutionary spiral uh over the course 00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:01.037 of the last 15 or 20 years. It probably been I think you you might maybe you'd 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.277 agree at sort of the the peak hostility disconnection was maybe in the late 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.517 2010s early 2020s. 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.517 >> Yeah. I think the Google Maven project 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:14.397 was kind of a watershed moment where, 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.357 you know, people had to take sides um 00:06:17.440 --> 00:06:19.197 just kind of intellectually. 00:06:19.280 --> 00:06:22.797 >> Uh you know, when Google pulled uh they 00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:27.837 won a government contract um for kind of I think it was AI to be used in kind of 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:29.597 drone technology or something like that. 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.557 And then uh they basically pulled out of 00:06:32.640 --> 00:06:36.317 the contract um due to a protest from uh 00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:38.237 you know a bunch of their employees. 00:06:38.320 --> 00:06:41.597 >> Yeah. And not just and I think you confirm like not not just like a mild 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.477 protest but like visceral emotional 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.797 >> Oh like yeah it was like a a revolt from 00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:50.957 I remember Sundar described it to me a 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:52.637 revolt from the international AI 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:56.957 community. Um and so it it was pretty 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.917 wild uh and and certainly unprecedented. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.717 >> Yeah. And so so you know I think there sort of things sort of bottomed out 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:05.677 there and then you know I think you know some of us and obviously you know there 00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:07.917 are new companies that have played a big role here but you know some of us like 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.477 Ben and I who were involved in this in the old days you know it was kind of a 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.437 chance for us to kind of take stock of you know where things were how things 00:07:13.520 --> 00:07:16.877 had gotten that bad what went wrong and then you know start to you know at least 00:07:16.960 --> 00:07:18.797 try to figure out kind of how to fix it. 00:07:18.880 --> 00:07:22.637 Um, and so anyway, so that's why like I was so enthusiastic when David and then 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:25.437 Katherine, you know, devel developed these ideas uh and and you know, 00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:27.357 developed this new mission for the firm. 00:07:27.440 --> 00:07:31.277 Um, like I I you know, I I I thought it was just like an absolutely fantastic 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:33.517 idea at the start and and and still do. 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.637 And but but I just wanted to go through that which is it's it's like a there's a 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:40.317 back to the future component of it, right? Which is like it is like what 00:07:40.400 --> 00:07:43.277 we're doing and what others are doing in this space. It is new and bold and 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.557 exciting and different and very different than the the norm 5 years ago. 00:07:46.640 --> 00:07:50.157 Um and and that's all real uh and but at the same time there is a historical 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.437 resonance which which is it's also a return to the original values uh of 00:07:53.520 --> 00:07:56.397 Silicon Valley which is something I I find to be you know just incredibly 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:58.477 positive uh and important to be a part of. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:00.077 >> Yeah. And two two footnotes to that that 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:03.037 that I think are important. One is um it 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:06.157 actually started uh with uh the 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:08.477 universities. So, professor uh Frank 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.917 Turman and and William Shockley who were 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:16.877 developing these technologies and um to support the war effort you know 00:08:16.960 --> 00:08:18.877 basically encouraged their students to 00:08:18.960 --> 00:08:21.037 not pursue PhDs and spin out and build 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:24.157 companies to support the uh the country. 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:27.357 So, which is an ironic turn because 00:08:27.440 --> 00:08:30.557 those same uh those same universities 00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:33.517 kind of spawn the ideas uh I would say 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:36.157 that led to their revolt at Google. Um 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.317 and then the other footnote is Google 00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:43.677 has definitely since Google/Alphabet has reversed their position and now do work 00:08:43.760 --> 00:08:47.437 uh with the US government and the defense department. So um we're in a 00:08:47.520 --> 00:08:51.597 happy place there. And just to tie the threads together, 00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:56.157 can we spend just a couple minutes explaining the uh why things went wrong? 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.237 what are some of the headline reasons um 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.197 that the hostility developed um so that 00:09:01.280 --> 00:09:05.757 we can then get back to the present and uh and describe what changed. I want to 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:07.917 hear from Katherine I think in particular on this because she she was 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.637 both an observer and a participant in it you know for the last for the last like 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:14.797 decade plus. Um like I don't know like I 00:09:14.880 --> 00:09:17.917 start by saying like look there are like I would say serious and legitimate 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:23.277 differences um in uh in philosophy and worldview. Um I just I happen to watch 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:25.917 I'm watching a lot of movies with my my 10-year-old and we've watched the movie 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.917 Real Genius last night. It's a movie in 1985 actually made by our good friend 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.197 Brian Graaser. It's just like an one of my favorite movies. incredible movie, 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:36.877 but it it was sort of an art it's sort of an artifact in the postvietnam era um 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:40.077 in which, you know, spoiler alert, the kids in the movie are going to basically 00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:43.597 a thinly disguised version of MIT and they're working on lasers and they they 00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:46.877 discovered to their enormous horror that they're working on a weapon. Um and the 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:49.517 and the sort of assumption in the movie is if you're working on a weapon, you're 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:53.197 evil. Um and they don't even like pause for a moment to like ask the question of 00:09:53.280 --> 00:09:55.997 like, well actually could this actually be like super helpful or like you know 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.477 is this how does this fit into strategy or whatever. they just immediately like 00:09:58.560 --> 00:10:02.957 we got to like and so and so it was like there was like it was like of a moment 00:10:03.040 --> 00:10:05.997 you know sort of very much like of a moment post post Vietnam if the military 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.437 was evil you know in general um and so you know there's been some of that in 00:10:09.520 --> 00:10:12.637 the ecosystem you know for for a long time by the way you know Ben mentioned 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:16.397 Stanford the pioneering role of Stanford in all of this Stanford was actually 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.237 forced in the 1970s to devest all of their military R&D and any R&D that 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:22.717 touched the military into something called the Stanford Research Institute 00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:26.637 so so you know there there was this you know many top American universities you 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.837 know forever for for basically since Vietnam have not allowed like ROC or 00:10:29.920 --> 00:10:32.477 like you know intelligence agency recruiting happening on campus and so 00:10:32.560 --> 00:10:36.477 there's there's like a 60s kind of dimension of this post post Vietnam 00:10:36.560 --> 00:10:40.557 thing and then in the last you know 15 years I think it just all got kind of 00:10:40.640 --> 00:10:43.677 wrapped up in the broader kind of national political drama you know of our 00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:46.797 of our time and you know basically people feeling like they have to take 00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:49.757 sides in all kinds of political issues um and then I would say beyond that 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:52.317 feeling like political issues aren't just political issues they're like fully 00:10:52.400 --> 00:10:56.797 moral issues and that you're immoral if you're on the other side and so I I And 00:10:56.880 --> 00:10:59.517 you know, and by the way, there's also like a post Iraq, you know, component to 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.797 it, which is, you know, can we really trust the system that took us into Iraq, 00:11:02.880 --> 00:11:05.677 you know, which obviously had, you know, big impact on our on our on our national 00:11:05.760 --> 00:11:09.117 politics. And so that that stuff just kind of snowballed in the valley uh 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.237 leading into the, you know, what Ben described um in the in in the late 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:16.957 2010s. Um you know, and I think there's a variety of different responses you 00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:19.677 could have to that. One is, you know, you could say like, you know, you 00:11:19.760 --> 00:11:22.637 believe that the postvietnam generation or the post Iraq mentality is the 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.837 correct mentality. And there's lots of points of view views that you could have 00:11:25.920 --> 00:11:29.997 on that. Um I I just think like in the fullness like in the heat of the moment 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.197 I think it's very easy to get wrapped up in like the specific let's say you know 00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:37.197 politics and morality of a specific situation. I would just come back to the 00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:40.397 kind of the big picture thing right which is like is America in aggregate a 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.117 force for good in the world like is it important for the world that America 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:47.757 succeed? Um is it important that um you know that that that that you know 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:50.717 broadly speaking American values western values you know are kind of preeminent 00:11:50.800 --> 00:11:54.157 in the world. Is it important um you know that the world not you know devolve 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:57.517 into a you know totalitar you know it was important during the in the 20th 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:00.317 century cold war that the world not devolve into a complete Soviet communism 00:12:00.400 --> 00:12:03.597 everywhere you know I don't think any of us want to see a world in which you know 00:12:03.680 --> 00:12:07.597 we end up with kind of the same scenario with like Chinese communism um and so I 00:12:07.680 --> 00:12:11.357 I think you can just kind of have these kind of big big big picture views um of 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.477 the importance of the of the overall thing. I think you can also just say you 00:12:14.560 --> 00:12:17.357 can have a lot of respect for the men and women in uniform, you know, who put 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.237 their lives on the line every day protecting and defending us. And, you 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.557 know, it's I think it's a pretty reasonable stance to say that they 00:12:22.640 --> 00:12:26.317 deserve to be supported um you know, by by their by their, you know, fellow 00:12:26.400 --> 00:12:30.237 countrymen like us. Um yeah, and and then you you could just also have the 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.517 view of like, yeah, I mean, look, we as the cliche goes, we live in a society, 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:37.277 right? and and and part of the society is is is that uh you know the government 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.637 is is going to be uh have certain capabilities and it's going to be you 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.237 know better if they're better and worse worse worse if they're worse and so so I 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:49.037 anyway I just think like those that sort of broader view just kind of I think got 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.917 was getting increasingly washed out by some very specific heated political 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.077 topics I think by the way I think now is a good time for a lot of you know for a 00:12:56.160 --> 00:12:59.117 lot of us for a lot of people you know really kind of take stock of this you 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:02.077 know as maybe some of the superheated you know kind of emotions of the last 00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:05.117 you know eight years maybe are fading a little right now. Um, and you know, some 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:07.517 people are are kind of saying, well, actually, we, you know, need to think 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:12.077 about what the next 30 years looks like, and we want it to work in a different way. 00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:15.917 >> I I'll add two points to that because I think Mark's point on culture um plays a 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.997 huge role in this. Uh, but there's there's two things I I've noticed um 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.797 since moving to the valley. I moved to the valley in 2014, but I moved from 00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:26.717 Washington DC. And one of the things that I noticed when I moved is that in 00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:31.517 if you are in Washington DC, you ride the metro. Metro stops at the Pentagon. 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.037 every time you ride the metro, you see men and women in uniform going to work. 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.037 So, it is a daily part of life that national security issues like when when 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.237 people talk about technology in Washington, they're talking about 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.157 aerospace, they're talking about defense. I mean, they're talking about 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:47.437 the companies that they see every day, the billboards for, which are very 00:13:47.520 --> 00:13:51.997 different than the billboards you see on on, you know, in in Silicon Valley. So I 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.757 think that's that's a huge part of it is just culturally people are very 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:59.837 accustomed to national security missions and needs and people in uniform in 00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:03.757 Washington DC and there's none of that in Silicon Valley. Um like you you could 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.597 go a decade in Silicon Valley without seeing a person in uniform. And so I 00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:10.797 think that's that's a part of it. But to Mark's point on on culture, I I've 00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:14.637 always said that I think the social network had probably the greatest 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.437 influence of the 2010s in terms of being 00:14:17.520 --> 00:14:21.997 a defining movie of what technology means. And when you look at sort of the 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.517 the kind of Bob Noise generation of working with your hands, building the 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:29.757 physical world, where those engineers came from versus the story of a Harvard 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.677 dorm room that inspired generations of college students who were studying 00:14:33.760 --> 00:14:37.917 computer science in their dorm um to come to Silicon Valley, those are two 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.837 very different populations and they symbolize two very different things. And 00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:45.597 so what what I think is is is interesting is probably like the 2010s 00:14:45.680 --> 00:14:47.837 were really solidified by this sort of 00:14:47.920 --> 00:14:50.877 Harvardesque social network culture that 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:55.437 is totally different than the culture of people who are building you know 00:14:55.520 --> 00:15:00.477 satellites or building any anything in the physical world and and we really 00:15:00.560 --> 00:15:03.757 didn't start talking about how those people are necessary for Silicon Valley 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.757 technology until Mark's essay it's time 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:10.877 to build until 2010 until we didn't have enough PPE for co and so I I think it 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:15.117 was really just sort of the kind of almost the logical 180 to what have we 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.877 done here? Like we're we're not all Harvard grads uh building in the 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.197 application layer when we should be thinking about the things that we 00:15:21.280 --> 00:15:22.637 actually need in the physical world. 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:23.837 >> Yeah. If I could just Katherine, I think 00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:26.477 it's a good point. I just I'll add one kind of personal component to that which 00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:30.717 is Bob of course grew up in rural Iowa um and was sort of that world, you know, 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:34.157 kind of World War II contemporaneous generation. Um you know, he undoubtedly 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.677 knew many uh servicemen and women. you know, he he undoubtedly knew many, you 00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:40.237 know, he and his family undoubtedly knew many soldiers who went to war and didn't 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:44.237 come back um and others who came back wounded. Um and um and you know, I grew 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.317 up in rural Wisconsin. I actually grew up in rural Wisconsin kind of post 00:15:46.400 --> 00:15:49.197 Vietnam. And you know, kind of very similar thing like if you look at where 00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:52.077 the sort of war fighters in the American military come from, it's it's you know, 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:55.517 it's sort of the center of the country in a lot of cases. And so if you grew up 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.077 in one of those environments, it's just it's like it's yeah, it's just like an 00:15:58.160 --> 00:16:02.157 integrated you just realize that this is an integrated part of your society. Um 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.037 yeah, and then uh yeah, maybe maybe I I come from a little bit more of that 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.597 background and then I'll I'll I'll tease I'll tease Ben a little bit. He comes 00:16:07.680 --> 00:16:10.077 from of course the polar opposite uh the 00:16:10.160 --> 00:16:12.477 People's Republic of Berkeley. Um in 00:16:12.560 --> 00:16:17.357 which I'm guessing probably the uniforms you saw people walking around in your 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:18.637 youth were not camouflaged. They were 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.597 somewhat something else. Um 00:16:21.680 --> 00:16:25.357 that that is definitely true. Although 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:30.157 although you know I ended up um 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.237 I ended up knowing a few people who did go to the so you know probably because I 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.517 played on the football team I ended up knowing a few people who did go to the 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:39.837 service and I mean I think that's one of 00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:45.277 the things that always um struck me as 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.997 incorrect. I I I'll just say about the 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.037 kind of anti you know we're not going to 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:52.797 sell stuff to the US military and so 00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:57.117 forth. That's like, well, so here are 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.157 friends of ours who are risking their 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.357 lives to protect us, and we're not going 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.357 to make sure they have the best, safest 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.957 uh equipment and technology available, 00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:14.077 like, and that's your moral position. 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.917 Like, that always struck me as very 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:19.517 weird, but you know. 00:17:19.600 --> 00:17:24.717 >> Yeah. Um I remember a few months ago Paul Graham was trying to critique 00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:28.557 Palunteer I think for sort of involvement in some sort of military 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:31.837 activ. >> Yeah. Yeah. um is just indicative of 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:36.637 kind of uh you know web 2010's insults that that don't work anymore because the 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:40.557 culture has changed so much such that you know within just a few years Palmer 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.437 could be uh you know you know uh 00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:47.757 negatively impacted or you know let go from from meta for sort of uh political 00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:51.917 contributions to the to the wrong side um or presumably the wrong side and now 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.597 is is a hero for for his work in saving American defense. It's just indicative 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.277 of how much the culture has changed the last few years. Yeah, it it turned out 00:17:59.360 --> 00:18:03.277 I'll I'll just bash the counter arguments for a moment. Um uh having 00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:07.437 been trying to be fair earlier, I I'll be totally unfair. Like a a lot of the 00:18:07.520 --> 00:18:11.277 arguments against like they're very thinly substantive. They're they're 00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:13.997 emotional in nature and very thinly substantive. And so my favorite story, 00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:17.517 Eric, of your your example was there was there was a big pro there was a big 00:18:17.600 --> 00:18:19.197 protest against tech companies working 00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:22.237 um uh with ICE um in in the in the early 00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:26.557 in the first Trump term in uh 2016 2017 and there's sort of this revolt where a 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.197 a bunch of tech CEOs kind of did this kind of berry posturing thing where they 00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:31.757 said of course we're never going to work with those horrible people you know who 00:18:31.840 --> 00:18:34.957 are you know trying to deal with like all you know everything on the border. 00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:38.237 Um uh and and I remember actually a friend of mine was running one of this 00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:41.517 kind of you know at the time one of the most like culturally advanced 00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:45.437 technologically advanced coolest tech companies in San Francisco and uh you 00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:47.917 know they they had a they had a contract you know they had their their services 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.317 used by ICE along with you know thousands of other organizations um and 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.037 and you know his employees did the big you know kind of outrage how can we 00:18:53.120 --> 00:18:57.277 possibly do this um and so he actually went out this is I think 2017 he went 00:18:57.360 --> 00:19:00.717 out like during the heat when it was maximum level heat intensity of that of 00:19:00.800 --> 00:19:04.317 that time um and he went out and actually got a former director actually 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.197 he got a guy who had actually been in the Obama administration is basically 00:19:07.280 --> 00:19:09.837 the head of head of border the head of the border security and the Obama 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.557 administration to basically come in and give an hourlong seminar at the company 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.277 and just explain like here's what's actually involved at the border here are 00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:17.997 all the things that make it complicated here's all the stuff involving you know 00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:21.277 not just you know not not not just people coming across but also children 00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:24.557 and and and you know sex trafficking and like you know drugs and like all all the 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.997 other aspects of it and he and he was he came in to do an hourong talk and you 00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:33.437 know and the entire company was invited and you know three people showed up 00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:36.797 right and so like I think that, you know, that that level of emotionality 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:40.237 like it had its moment. And I and I think it's just it's just over now. And 00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:43.037 I think we we we and, you know, hopefully, you know, hopefully we and 00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:45.677 hopefully a lot of others are are just kind of, you know, back back to back, 00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:48.397 you know, in a lot of ways back to basics, back to fundamentals. These 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.957 missions actually really do, you know, independent of the political mood of the 00:19:51.040 --> 00:19:53.757 moment. These issues these these these issues matter. These people matter. 00:19:53.840 --> 00:19:56.877 These organizations matter and they deserve to be supported. 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.077 >> Okay, cool. We've we've heard Ben Mark's perspective on the on the origin of 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.037 American dynamism. uh do you and Katherine let's uh let's hear it from 00:20:03.120 --> 00:20:07.837 from your p perspective >> when I joined the firm in 2018 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.197 uh you know you have to remember what time that was what era was in Silicon 00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:15.197 Valley I think Silicon Valley lost its way as we've discussed in terms of 00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:19.197 focusing on defense um focusing on really hard problems you know hardware 00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:21.677 was not in vogue um the intersection of 00:20:21.760 --> 00:20:26.957 software and advanced advanced hardware was not was not popular um and about a 00:20:27.040 --> 00:20:30.877 year after I joined Mark asked me if I wanted to meet Palmer Lucky who is the 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.397 founder of Anderoll. I think Mark was skeptical that our firm would be 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:35.757 interested in a deal like that for a 00:20:35.840 --> 00:20:38.637 variety of reasons. Um, but I went down 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.357 to uh Costa Mesa to their office. They had just unveiled their their new 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.877 office, which is no longer their new office. It's now their old office. Um, 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.917 and when I was there, you know, like we we had fallen in love with the company. 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.397 We thought it was amazing what they were doing. When I was there, actually, I met 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.317 Katherine. Um, she wanted to lead the series B when she was at General 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.317 Catalyst. I wanted to lead the series B. 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:02.317 We ended up splitting it. Um, so we >> wasn't the best first meeting. I'll put 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.517 it that way. >> That That's true. That's true. Um, I'll 00:21:05.600 --> 00:21:09.197 let you decide how much of that you want to share. But we basically started out, 00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:13.277 I think, with uh, not knowing each other at all, competing to win a deal, having 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:16.637 to split it. I think one of the worst things I did was that I actually had 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:20.877 not, she had done so much work for the series B. She had done all the diligence 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.517 work. She had done notes. She actually helped the company prepare for the 00:21:23.600 --> 00:21:27.437 series B. I had not done that work. And I think to add insult to injury of 00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:30.957 having to split the deal, I then asked her for her notes. Um, so I could write 00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:34.957 write our memo, which is really probably uh, one of the more embarrassing. 00:21:35.040 --> 00:21:37.437 >> I sent them because because I because I'm a good soldier. 00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:39.597 >> You are you are good. Yeah. Yeah. It was 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.957 it was a brutal way I think to meet. But I respected Katherine. That's the 00:21:43.040 --> 00:21:47.437 important part. The important part is I respected Katherine. Um, and we both uh 00:21:47.520 --> 00:21:49.917 thought Andrew was a great company. U a 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.717 couple years later uh, and I I then continued to follow all of Katherine's 00:21:54.800 --> 00:21:58.077 writings. she was really she used different terminology at the time but 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:01.517 eventually she came up with the terminology of American dynamism. Um I 00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:04.237 thought that was a perfect uh phrase. Um 00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:08.477 I then in in 2021 I think uh invested in 00:22:08.560 --> 00:22:12.717 flock safety. Um that was at a time where Black Lives Matters was a big 00:22:12.800 --> 00:22:16.877 movement. Um people thought the idea of funding public safety and supporting the 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.157 police was not so cool in Silicon Valley. But we knew that when we talked 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:23.597 to people um who actually were customers of Flock Safety and people in the 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.477 communities, they loved it. And I just thought this was the highest and best 00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:30.477 use of my time. It's the time I wanted to spend. Um at that point, Katherine 00:22:30.560 --> 00:22:35.197 Katherine uh she was really writing more and more about this idea um and the 00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:39.277 importance in investing these areas critical to the national interest. Um 00:22:39.360 --> 00:22:43.677 and I reached out to her with with Mark and Ben's support and said, "Hey, um I 00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:47.277 think you we should join forces. We should make this uh a full-fledged 00:22:47.360 --> 00:22:51.357 effort. we will make this a long-term commitment. We'll raise money. We'll 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.437 raise a fund. The firm is totally behind it. Um I think she didn't believe me at 00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:59.277 first. She can she can give her version of it, but then she came around to it. 00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:03.277 Uh and at the end of 2021, she joined the firm and uh we launched the American 00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:07.437 Dynamis practice and it's been uh as they say up and to the right ever since. 00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:11.837 >> Can I give another part that we've never told to you that is actually 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:13.197 >> it's really for you to tell. 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:15.117 >> You you could tell me. We'll we'll we'll 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.197 cut it if it's if it's uh inappropriate. 00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:20.317 But we'll give another part of the story that we've never told which is who the 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.117 actual matchmaker was for Du and I 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.637 because until a single moment we had 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:31.437 always been competing and you know I I I had sort of secretly been like I wish I 00:23:31.520 --> 00:23:34.237 wish you would just stop looking at these companies. It actually is flock 00:23:34.320 --> 00:23:37.277 safety. Garrett Langley called me um 00:23:37.360 --> 00:23:41.757 very late like 11:30 at night um right before his process was about to kick off 00:23:41.840 --> 00:23:45.917 and he said I have terrible terrible news. Great news for me but terrible 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.517 news for you. Uh David flew out and wouldn't let me leave the restaurant and 00:23:49.600 --> 00:23:53.917 made me sign a term sheet and I'm not going to be running a process anymore. 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.037 And I said Garrett, how could you do this? I've been you know like not I 00:23:57.120 --> 00:23:59.997 wasn't like how could you do I was like happy for you but I'm like Garrett you 00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:03.437 know I wanted to be part of your process and he said well I think the right 00:24:03.520 --> 00:24:05.757 solution and I told David this is that 00:24:05.840 --> 00:24:10.557 you guys should just join forces and you should join and 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:12.637 then I kid you not two minutes later 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.157 David calls me um and says hey like we 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:20.237 haven't we haven't had a meal we should we should grab a meal um and so I sort 00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:22.157 of knew what was what was cooking but I 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.397 am forever grateful I think for Garrett 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.157 Langley um kind of trying to to smooth 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:32.397 things over and kind of thread the needle very gracefully for himself. Um, 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.277 saying, "Well, why don't you just join Andrea and Norwoods and that way we can 00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:39.277 all work together." He >> he's an amazing CEO. There's one other 00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:42.397 funny part about that fundraising round, which has never happened to me in any 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.597 other, this is just sort of a nonsequittor, but another investor who 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:49.277 was really excited about that round and not excited about that phone call wrote 00:24:49.360 --> 00:24:51.677 me this crazy email. I won't say who it 00:24:51.760 --> 00:24:56.637 was. Um, but one of his reasons about why he should then get into the round um 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.317 was that he had already printed out the term sheet. And I was like, well, I also 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.837 own a printer. Like I don't like what is what does printing out the term sheet 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:08.317 have to do with anything? >> Or had some some very upset people who 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.797 were hanging around the hoop um who didn't fly out to Atlanta um the the day 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:17.517 before he started u which is a very strong um reminder to all of us. Get on 00:25:17.600 --> 00:25:21.117 the plane and fly out before the process starts. to totally 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:24.717 >> and don't let them leave until the term she designed. I like that pro pro move 00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:28.077 to you. The um so let's segue into you 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:32.317 started American Dynamism and I'm curious cuz people had this perception 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.717 that you know hardware is very hard it's very capital intensive margins are 00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:41.117 worse. It it takes a long time to to get returns if they ever do. How should 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.717 people think about this category from an investment perspective given some of the 00:25:44.800 --> 00:25:48.317 preconceived notions that people people had about the category? There's a bunch 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.837 of different ways to build a hardware company. Um I think if you look at a lot 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:55.917 of the American Dynamism companies, at least the early um sort of innings of of 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.277 where they started, a lot of them were using off-the-shelf commodity hardware 00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:01.517 with really advanced software. Um so 00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.837 Flock Safety was basically a camera um a 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:06.877 cell phone camera in a box um with with 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.197 power to it um and an LTE connection. If you look at some of the early Androll 00:26:11.280 --> 00:26:15.517 work, it was largely commodity optics, commodity hardware, commodity, you know, 00:26:15.600 --> 00:26:18.557 um, parts that they were able to turn into things like the Sentry tower. Um, 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.997 and then over time, those things have gotten more sophisticated. But a lot of 00:26:22.080 --> 00:26:26.637 the companies we invest in, their early versions, um, are really more commodity 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.077 hardware they're able to put together. 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.277 And then I think the unique thing and the the the key thing is that we're at 00:26:31.360 --> 00:26:34.317 this moment where you can then pair that with advanced software that drives 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:37.437 things like computer vision, autonomy, 00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:42.077 um, etc. And I think that that that is why this is the moment in time where 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.597 hardware makes a lot more sense. The other thing is that the customers that 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.597 they're serving, it's not like you have to build your hardware for the Christmas 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.357 um gifting season where you only have 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:54.637 one shot to make 80% of your sales. Um 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:57.517 when you do government uh hardware or 00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:00.797 hardware for uh for the Pentagon um or 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.877 across enterprises, it's a much different um sales cycle and process. 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:09.757 you can better manage your inventory and your pacing and your hardware spend. Um, 00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:12.877 and there's also just a lot more, I would say, equipment financing available 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.877 for the very large scale hardware projects. Um, and so it really is just a 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.837 different dynamic. And I think if you understand that and you spend time in 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:23.197 these categories, you recognize that this is not the same thing as making 00:27:23.280 --> 00:27:27.117 like a consumer electronics toy, which is a really almost like a hits business 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.717 or, you know, if you have one major issue and recall, it destroys the 00:27:30.800 --> 00:27:34.557 company. It's not it's not quite like that. Do you let's go deeper on on 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.837 energy. Where are you most excited or where are we thinking about it from a 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.757 from investment perspective? >> Yeah, look, I I've said this many times. 00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:44.557 We we as a general society, as an 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:49.197 economy, have an insatiable thirst for for energy and for power. Um, and those 00:27:49.280 --> 00:27:51.277 are not exactly the same the same thing. 00:27:51.360 --> 00:27:54.317 Um, but we need power in order to run 00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:57.277 our AI compute loads. um we need base 00:27:57.360 --> 00:28:02.077 load power which means always on power um to run our electrical our aging 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:05.917 electrical grid that means we need generation we need transmission and we 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.477 need storage um and so again whether it's electric vehicles whether it's AI 00:28:10.560 --> 00:28:14.397 compute it does it doesn't really matter what what the reason is we know that 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:19.197 there's just absolute demand from the consumer side to have more and more 00:28:19.280 --> 00:28:23.437 electricity in the system and more and more power generation um and so I think 00:28:23.520 --> 00:28:25.837 what we look for is where are there just 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:28.797 massive ways to create um and generate 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:32.477 energy that is uh transposable, that is 00:28:32.560 --> 00:28:36.957 transmittable, that can be modular, that can be mobile. Um and so we've made two 00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:39.437 investments in the energy space. Um 00:28:39.520 --> 00:28:41.997 exowatt is one, radiant nuclear is the 00:28:42.080 --> 00:28:45.277 other. Um we know that those are two um 00:28:45.360 --> 00:28:47.437 power power generation systems. One uses 00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:51.037 the sun, one uses nuclear uh energy um 00:28:51.120 --> 00:28:55.917 to create reliable um power systems. And so we're very excited about it. Um, and 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.317 we we certainly I think would make more investments. But we the last the last 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.957 thing I would say is that there's been multiple studies that we we've seen 00:29:03.040 --> 00:29:07.357 shared around over the years that when you pour more and more energy into an 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:12.077 economy, you get economic growth. And that's been true um in all of modern 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.597 history. Uh, and I think that's going to be true today as well. 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:20.477 >> Yeah. Gen, I I want to segue to aerospace. There's there's a lot going 00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:23.917 on in in terms, you know, space manufacturing, uh, hypersonics, 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:27.837 responsive launch. Where are we making making bets where are we most excited to 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:30.557 to make more? >> Yeah. So, I think the thing that's 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.157 really changed about aerospace that I think we're we're incredibly excited 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:38.317 about is it used to be that everyone had to vertically integrate. Um, and sort of 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:42.477 space 1.0 was was very much categorized with companies taking the SpaceX model. 00:29:42.560 --> 00:29:46.397 You will build everything yourself. Um, it might take 10 years to get to space 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:51.677 and that's okay. uh that is not the case anymore. Uh we you know we we were one 00:29:51.760 --> 00:29:55.357 of the earliest investors in a company called Apex Space. I believe they are 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.117 the fastest company to get from clean 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:00.557 sheet design to orbit in 13 months 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:04.957 >> um in in history. Um which is which is pretty incredible. Um but they had a 00:30:05.040 --> 00:30:08.477 different view which is that we only want to make the satellite bus. Um, and 00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:12.637 if we can figure out ways to make the satellite bus cheaper, more efficiently, 00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:15.277 and and work with all of the the legacy 00:30:15.360 --> 00:30:20.077 primes and the new primes, um, to put their payloads into space, um, that will 00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:23.117 be far more efficient for these companies that are building, um, 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.797 different types of of payloads. And I think that thesis has been has been 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.557 largely correct. Um, they've been able to work with um, you know, some of the 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:35.277 the most kind of legendary, I would say, um, you know, legacy companies, um, but 00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:38.717 also the the emerging ones. they, you know, they they um Andrew flew on their 00:30:38.800 --> 00:30:42.157 first flight. Um so I think there there's there's something to be said 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.757 about sort of deconstructing the vertical integration process in space. 00:30:45.840 --> 00:30:49.117 That's been very um novel in space 2.0. 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:51.117 We're also investors in Northwood space. 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:54.557 Um it's building ground stations. Um you know, that's a that's a problem that 00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:57.837 hasn't been tackled in a in a in a very long time. We do not have enough ground 00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.197 stations to get data back to Earth as quickly as we need to. And given that 00:31:01.280 --> 00:31:05.277 low Earth orbit has just been, I would say, you know, saturated um by by 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:08.477 payloads in the last several years, particularly because the cost of launch 00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:11.037 has come down and because SpaceX has put 00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:15.357 85% of all mass into orbit, um we we do 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.277 need more comms. We do need um an ability to be able to to have 00:31:19.360 --> 00:31:23.117 communication and downlink to from lower Earth orbit in particular to to ground 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.557 stations. So these companies, I think, are attacking very important parts of 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.477 the problem, but they're also kind of deconstructing the problem of space, 00:31:30.560 --> 00:31:34.637 which used to be build it all yourself, build it in house. Um, which was, of 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.517 course, the reason why SpaceX has been so successful. But we're sort of seeing 00:31:37.600 --> 00:31:41.437 this unbundling um with the the emerging companies that are doing parts of the 00:31:41.520 --> 00:31:46.397 stack that that maybe SpaceX and some of the legacy players um haven't innovated 00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.397 in or don't see as the priority. 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.157 >> That's a that's a good overview. I I want to segue to defense which is bas 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:57.117 you you both know know about um maybe Katherine we we'll start with you 00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:00.317 similarly where are we excited where have we made bets where are we looking 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.717 to to make more or what have we seen change 00:32:02.800 --> 00:32:06.477 >> I mean the the thing that's really exciting about defense is for the first 00:32:06.560 --> 00:32:08.877 time you have sort of this I would say 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:11.677 almost a golden triangle of the customer 00:32:11.760 --> 00:32:14.717 is desperate and moving very fast and 00:32:14.800 --> 00:32:19.197 and the customer isn't just the Pentagon it's also Congress uh do you and I and 00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:23.437 and Mark, we're were just in Washington um talking to to senators and and 00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:28.077 members of members of the House who were very engaged on this year's NDAA. Um how 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:32.317 do we fix some of the core problems with procurement? And I think that it it you 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.397 know, I've never been so hopeful um about these minor changes in procurement 00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:40.877 reform having a dramatic impact on all of the defense ecosystem. So not just, 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.757 you know, not just our companies, not just even little tech, but I think it 00:32:43.840 --> 00:32:47.117 will have a dramatic impact on improving research and development even in the 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:50.397 primes. So, so there's there's something to be said of, you know, the last 10 00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.117 years we've been saying the same thing over and over and over again, which is 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:57.437 we need more competition. We need, you know, modern software and Silicon Valley 00:32:57.520 --> 00:33:00.637 engineering to be brought into the Pentagon. And now you're actually seeing 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.677 it and you're seeing everyone say the same thing. But the other things that I 00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:07.197 think have really changed in the last 10 years and particularly since we started 00:33:07.280 --> 00:33:12.237 uh the AD fund is one, the the downstream capital requirement that used 00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:16.157 to be sort of the thing that made investors very nervous. It's there. 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.197 downstream capital has never been more excited to invest in these these hard 00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:22.637 tech companies, American Dynamism companies. And so the sort of messy 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.757 middle that used to exist where companies had to sort of float through 00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:27.677 or hope that they would get contracts. 00:33:27.760 --> 00:33:31.277 Now there's capital to subsidize which is I think is really important. And 00:33:31.360 --> 00:33:36.237 that's led to so many different founders leaving the Andurals and the SpaceX's 00:33:36.320 --> 00:33:39.357 and the extraord you know they they've sort of graduated with the blessing of 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:43.517 of of their of their teams and they're building things that are that are novel 00:33:43.600 --> 00:33:47.517 in the physical world. taking the the methodology of how they learned 00:33:47.600 --> 00:33:49.677 manufacturing from SpaceX or taking the 00:33:49.760 --> 00:33:54.797 manufacturing methodologies they learned um or pioneered at Anderol and and and 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.517 you know and and doing them in in different ways doing them for different 00:33:57.600 --> 00:34:00.877 things sometimes not even in defense. I mean I love pointing out um another 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:02.957 energy company that we invested in base 00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:06.237 power u you know the the the founder CTO 00:34:06.320 --> 00:34:08.797 of of that company led at manufacturing 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:13.357 at at Andreal for years and so it's they they learn they learn the process or 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:17.757 build the process in house in in one area in one sector and then they move to 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.597 something that's that's that's adjacent but not necessarily the same and so I 00:34:21.680 --> 00:34:25.997 think defense is really benefiting from just years of people learning from the 00:34:26.080 --> 00:34:29.597 school of Elon Musk and then building these new companies for very kind of I 00:34:29.680 --> 00:34:33.757 would say specific use cases. Um and they're finally sort of awake and saying 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.397 hey we will we will write you a contract. So I think it's only going to 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.397 get better. I keep saying I mean yes we're early stage but um and and very 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.197 optimistic. I think there's never been a better time to start a defense company. 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.997 I just think I think that the the floodgates are opening and we're going 00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:50.237 to just see just incredible pace of innovation um with startups that are 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:54.797 starting today. >> It's um yeah it's amazing the the the 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:57.117 founders that have emerged from from those two companies as you mentioned. 00:34:57.200 --> 00:35:00.957 You know, we did this episode a few weeks ago about uh how Apple built China 00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:05.357 and how the expertise that uh that people who went to work on Apple go, you 00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.997 know, um translated into other industries and maybe there'll be 00:35:08.080 --> 00:35:12.637 something someday around like how Ander SpaceX rebuilt America to some degree in 00:35:12.720 --> 00:35:15.437 terms of all the expertise that was developed there and how they went on to 00:35:15.520 --> 00:35:18.877 go and build uh you know, other tremendous companies. Yeah, I mean I do 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:22.397 think that the legacy of SpaceX, yes, everything they've built and done is 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:25.597 important, but the the manufacturing processes that people have learned at 00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:29.437 SpaceX is going to be carrying America forward for generations. Uh when you 00:35:29.520 --> 00:35:33.677 think how tens of thousands of people of engineers have left SpaceX and gone on 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:37.117 to other companies and pioneered new ways of building and the manufacturing 00:35:37.200 --> 00:35:41.197 process in particular is is what was novel and different. The factory is the 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:46.077 product of how how Elon built across Tesla and SpaceX. So I think the the in 00:35:46.160 --> 00:35:49.917 some ways it can't be overstated just how important um that company is for for 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.437 a number of different domains. 00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:55.997 >> Yeah. And and a lot of people thought that the the legacy incumbents sort of 00:35:56.080 --> 00:35:57.997 their lobbying arms were just so 00:35:58.080 --> 00:36:00.557 powerful that it' be just very difficult 00:36:00.640 --> 00:36:03.677 for um you know for startups to break in 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.677 against the against their the primes. 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:10.317 What um what changed? Obviously you know the sort of the need has been there for 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:13.597 a while. Did it just come to a breaking point at some point or or what really 00:36:13.680 --> 00:36:16.157 sort of, you know, created this opportunity? 00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:18.237 >> Well, we always say SpaceX and Palanteer 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:19.517 walked so that everyone else could run. 00:36:19.600 --> 00:36:22.717 And I would, it's maybe unfair to say that they walked, but both of them had 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:27.597 to sue the government. Um um so so you know, those are those are two early 00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:31.997 companies, extremely early, right? These are the companies that wereed in 2002 00:36:32.080 --> 00:36:35.837 2003. Um so I think in some ways they had to 00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.597 do the very very difficult work of educating the government, educating 00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:42.157 themselves, right? Explaining why it is 00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:46.717 so important. Um but I think you know that now 20 years on from from those 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:51.197 companies founding we just see an extraordinary amount of I I think 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:54.637 alignment um that we've never seen before. One because the the kind of you 00:36:54.720 --> 00:36:59.357 know stakes have changed in 2002 no one was worried about China. In 2012 no one 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:01.837 was worried about China, right? So there there's something that I think has 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:05.677 changed in terms of nearpeer adversaries as well that people are now waking up 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.597 and saying okay like we we we you know we can't let our own procurement process 00:37:09.680 --> 00:37:12.957 be the thing that stops us from actually fielding these technologies and 00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:15.597 producing them in mass. >> I think that's right. I think on the 00:37:15.680 --> 00:37:19.037 adversary basis we now have a much healthier respect for China as an 00:37:19.120 --> 00:37:23.037 adversary particularly on their production capability but I think the 00:37:23.120 --> 00:37:24.477 product has also changed. I think the 00:37:24.560 --> 00:37:28.157 war in Ukraine really um put a very very 00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:33.437 bright light on how our exquisite large platforms are not uh going to be the 00:37:33.520 --> 00:37:35.037 platforms for the fight of the future. 00:37:35.120 --> 00:37:38.557 And we needed new we needed new products. You know, when when Andreal 00:37:38.640 --> 00:37:42.797 talks about rebuilding the arsenal of democracy, they're talking about not 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:46.637 doing it with new aircraft carriers. are talking about with the tradable systems 00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:49.677 um with you know swarms of drones uh 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:54.557 with with new kinds of autonomous uh submersibles and other vehicles and so 00:37:54.640 --> 00:37:58.237 it really is a different product and I think the government has woken up in in 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.157 many ways to that need and they are now working through the procurement reforms 00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:06.477 a lot of a lot of the the work that Katherine and I and Mark and and and Ben 00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:09.997 and others do inside the firm in Washington is to really drive some of 00:38:10.080 --> 00:38:13.917 these reforms which will benefit um ultimately will benefit America but will 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.597 benefit at all companies but you know in addition to the companies we work with 00:38:17.680 --> 00:38:20.557 um but the product has changed and I think the customer recognizes they need 00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:23.437 a different product which is going to come from from a different place. 00:38:23.520 --> 00:38:26.957 >> Is there anything more we want to say on on Ukraine and h how that sort of 00:38:27.040 --> 00:38:30.477 changed the investment landscape or did you sort of say the main thing you 00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:34.877 wanted to say? You know, one one other thing I would add is that um and and 00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.237 you've seen this actually, you know, when JD Vance went and gave a speech in 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:41.597 Europe, I think at the Munich Security Conference, he really said like it's 00:38:41.680 --> 00:38:45.997 time for Europe to step up and start spending money on defense again. Um and 00:38:46.080 --> 00:38:49.597 you know, while the reaction in in the press was like negative, how could he do 00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:52.557 this? How could you do this to our friend and our allies and and like 00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:56.957 whatever, the reality was like a lot of a lot of the uh politicians in Europe 00:38:57.040 --> 00:39:00.637 said, "Okay, wait, wait a minute. This is actually probably true." And uh 00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:05.277 almost every major country in Europe has made a commitment to double or more 00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.997 their spending their GDP level of spend on on defense. And that spend is 00:39:10.080 --> 00:39:13.837 ultimately going to go there. There aren't enough incumbents in Europe to 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.277 have to have all that money go to companies in Europe. So it's a huge 00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:21.757 opportunity for um their strongest ally, which is the United States, for the 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:25.917 companies here to actually go and increase their business uh overseas. And 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.517 so I think there's just broadly a ton of opportunity. Um, and you're going to see 00:39:29.600 --> 00:39:31.197 that and I think look, the fight in the 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:34.797 Ukraine obviously has has caused the uh 00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:39.037 the all the countries in NATO and you know all of Western Europe to wake up 00:39:39.120 --> 00:39:43.037 and recognize that they have to change their posture when it comes to defense. 00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:45.997 The we've been talking about energy, we've been talking about aerospace, 00:39:46.080 --> 00:39:49.837 we've been talking about defense. What what's next in terms of where are we 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.597 excited to invest or where are the opportunities? Do you 00:39:53.680 --> 00:39:57.357 >> Yeah. Well, I think a couple things I would say. One is that sometimes people 00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:01.357 think the categories that we invest in are just totally desperate and and it's 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:05.357 like oh we like we like them and so they think like okay yeah it's space it's 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:09.597 defense it's energy but actually um these categories are often much more 00:40:09.680 --> 00:40:11.917 interrelated than people people realize. 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.997 You cannot have strong national security 00:40:14.080 --> 00:40:19.117 without a reliable uh energy grid and electrical grid. Um you cannot have 00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:22.317 obviously strong national security without strong defense. You can't have 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:26.957 that without strong communications which requires space uh satellites and 00:40:27.040 --> 00:40:30.317 satellite communications and space domain awareness. Um and so these things 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:34.237 are much more interrelated than people realize. Um we obviously have other 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.757 investments in areas that we say as Katherine often puts it serve the 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.757 national interest. So we have investments in education. We have a 00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:45.917 massive portfolio in public safety. Um that you know every definition of the 00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:49.117 American dream that somebody would come up with would include the idea of living 00:40:49.200 --> 00:40:52.637 in a safe community. So, we have a massive um I think we're probably the 00:40:52.720 --> 00:40:54.637 largest public safety venture investors 00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:57.197 uh in the country um if not if not the 00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:02.317 world. Um and I think as you look to the future, I mean, everyone has their own 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.757 view of what the the future will will look like for American dynamism, but I 00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:08.717 think we you'll see us increasingly shift left. That's why we look at 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:13.597 minerals and uh we look at critical critical minerals and and mining. um we 00:41:13.680 --> 00:41:17.277 look at manufacturing and the supply chain and the criticality of the supply 00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:21.677 chain and the ability to get the important uh precursor ingredients we 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:26.477 need for manufacturing um in the event of a conflict. Uh and so I think I think 00:41:26.560 --> 00:41:28.797 those are some areas that I'm excited about. 00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:33.597 >> Yeah, I'll echo that you know I I joke that I just love production companies um 00:41:33.680 --> 00:41:37.117 and that it you know you're now actually seeing large companies say we're moving 00:41:37.200 --> 00:41:39.757 back our manufacturing back to the USA. 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:42.637 Um, I just think there's never been a better time to to really focus on 00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:44.957 components, um, and to focus on sort of 00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:47.517 like the the like almost like the dumb 00:41:47.600 --> 00:41:52.317 parts, um, the dumb hardware that's needed for a war of mass. And so, I 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:55.517 think we're we're taking serious looks at a lot of companies that have 00:41:55.600 --> 00:41:59.117 interesting thesis on how you do that in bulk. Obviously, Hadrien was an early 00:41:59.200 --> 00:42:03.277 company um you know that that really focused on how do you build a factory of 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.797 the future but I think a lot of learnings over the last several years of 00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:11.197 how you how you really automate factories to build for um you know 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:14.477 whether whether it's exquisite systems or sort of dumb parts all will be 00:42:14.560 --> 00:42:17.517 necessary in a war of mass and so I think we're we're taking all of that 00:42:17.600 --> 00:42:21.277 very seriously. You mentioned al also education which isn't always a category 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:25.357 that people uh you know uh sort of tie to American dynamism. Katherine I know 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:28.557 we've done Odyssey. What has been a sort of our our thesis in terms of where 00:42:28.640 --> 00:42:30.877 we're excited there? >> Well, what's what's exciting about 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:32.717 Odyssey? I'll give a an overview there. 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:35.837 That was an early education company that saw the sea change happening at the 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:40.717 state level um around education saving accounts. Um so in the same way that you 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:43.837 have a health savings account through your employer that you can then put 00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:46.397 forward towards health care of any kind. 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:50.317 Um this was a view um by a lot of states that that people should be able to opt 00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.877 out of the public school system, particularly parents that want to 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:57.037 homeschool or that want to have sort of a hybrid uh method of learning for their 00:42:57.120 --> 00:43:00.637 children. Um and this became very popular during co um because it was sort 00:43:00.720 --> 00:43:03.517 of there weren't enough schools, there weren't enough, you know, a lot of 00:43:03.600 --> 00:43:06.797 people had moved around the country and and and homeschooling and sort of 00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:09.917 alternative learning became very popular. But now you're seeing, you 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:12.397 know, uh, states like Texas pass a 00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:17.517 universal ESA where any parent can opt their their child out of out of the the 00:43:17.600 --> 00:43:21.037 public school system and receive cash from the state. And that cash has to be 00:43:21.120 --> 00:43:24.157 transferred and regulated somehow and ensured that that's actually being spent 00:43:24.240 --> 00:43:27.997 on education. And so Odyssey is building the the financial rails to do that 00:43:28.080 --> 00:43:30.957 tracking to make sure that parents get the the cash that they deserve from 00:43:31.040 --> 00:43:32.957 these state programs um and can put 00:43:33.040 --> 00:43:38.157 forward to to any program that is, you know, approved by by the state um based 00:43:38.240 --> 00:43:40.957 on their bylaws. And I think you're just seeing more and more experimentation 00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:44.717 with with K- through2 education. One, because it's necessary, right? There's 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:48.317 there's more and more, I would say, special needs kids or kids that have 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:51.997 different um learning capacities, and people are realizing that one-on-one 00:43:52.080 --> 00:43:54.637 tutoring can support that. Um, and so I 00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:59.197 think you're you're seeing, you know, a variety of different um, methods of of 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:01.837 learning and they have to be, you know, supported by different types of 00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:06.157 technology. Um, we're also obviously looking at how AI and and one-on-one 00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:09.677 tutoring can can support these initiatives. I think we're just going to 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:13.997 see so many changes to K through2 education um over the next decade um 00:44:14.080 --> 00:44:17.597 enabled by not only technology but also just this kind of I would say this this 00:44:17.680 --> 00:44:22.157 sea change that happened because of co um which is realizing that that parents 00:44:22.240 --> 00:44:25.117 are sometimes best equipped to make the decisions about how their how their 00:44:25.200 --> 00:44:27.597 children are going to learn. >> We've talked about the categories we're 00:44:27.680 --> 00:44:31.837 excited about investing in. Is there any for AD entrepreneurs listening to this? 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.997 Are there any requests for startups that you particularly want to see that people 00:44:36.080 --> 00:44:39.997 yet haven't yet done um as much or as well as they should have across any of 00:44:40.080 --> 00:44:42.637 these categories? >> I have one I feel like I'm a broken 00:44:42.720 --> 00:44:46.637 record um with my request which is offensive space. Uh I think everyone 00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:49.997 looks to the past conflict and says oh well we look at what happened in Ukraine 00:44:50.080 --> 00:44:53.757 and that's what we should build. I actually think there's very few um 00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:58.557 lessons from Ukraine that are going to be relevant in the future war. Candidly, 00:44:58.640 --> 00:45:01.277 I think that the future war, the infrastructure that we already have in 00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:05.437 low low Earth orbit will be exceptionally important. Um, and we have 00:45:05.520 --> 00:45:08.397 to figure out ways to protect what we're building in low Earth orbit in 00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:12.077 particular. And so I think anything to do with offenses of space um both on the 00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:15.757 software side and the hardware side, we're we're very excited about. 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.037 >> Yeah. You've mentioned that the how do you phrase it? It's the war is not going 00:45:19.120 --> 00:45:21.597 to be about space. It's going to be in space or something. 00:45:21.680 --> 00:45:25.037 >> Yes. Yeah. No, I I very much believe that and it's because we already have so 00:45:25.120 --> 00:45:28.957 much important infrastructure. Like what when when we visited I was fortunate 00:45:29.040 --> 00:45:32.877 enough to go to the the border of Ukraine with some um US officials and 00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:36.397 and and operators on the ground and every time I talked to to people on the 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.117 ground and asked them what's the most important piece of technology that you 00:45:39.200 --> 00:45:41.677 use, they all said Starlink. Um and of 00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:43.997 course Starlink is in low Earth orbit. 00:45:44.080 --> 00:45:47.597 It's not um something that necessarily you would you would need to to target 00:45:47.680 --> 00:45:50.477 low Earth orbit and able to take out that infrastructure. And so, you know, 00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:55.037 obviously SpaceX is a very um sophisticated company. Um but but I 00:45:55.120 --> 00:45:58.717 think anything to do with offensive space capabilities that can shore up 00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:02.397 what the US government needs given given where the next conflict will be uh I 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:07.037 think is extremely important. I want to zoom out and also talk about how we 00:46:07.120 --> 00:46:10.557 think about American dynamism in the context of our international efforts 00:46:10.640 --> 00:46:13.757 because you mentioned you know and for different uh different spaces but also 00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.157 countries are trying to build their own version of it and of course Andrew's 00:46:16.240 --> 00:46:20.877 also you know working internationally as well but um maybe Katherine we'll start 00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:25.517 with you how do you sort of think about uh American dynamism but also and I'll 00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:29.517 pass it to Ben as we're building our international efforts uh our American 00:46:29.600 --> 00:46:33.517 allies. Well, I I think you know Ben Ben has 00:46:33.600 --> 00:46:36.797 always said every time and I I I won't put words in your mouth, Ben, but every 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.637 time that he travels, I mean, the the thing that people want is exactly what 00:46:40.720 --> 00:46:44.397 we named the category, which is how do we build American dynamism? How do we 00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:48.397 build Silicon Valley in our own country, right? Like how do how do we build 00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:51.357 national resilience? How do how do we think about, you know, future of 00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:55.517 manufacturing? What are the things that are going to supercharge our own um 00:46:55.600 --> 00:47:00.317 economy? And I think the the thing that that by calling it American dynamism and 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:03.517 by talking about how important it is to be building in the physical world, I I 00:47:03.600 --> 00:47:06.797 think we kind of captured a few things that are really important to to every 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:10.317 nation state. One is, you know, we always point to the fact that 25 years 00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:12.877 ago, if you looked at the market cap um 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:14.637 of the largest 10 companies in the 00:47:14.720 --> 00:47:17.517 world, 25 years ago, uh three of the top 00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:22.157 10 were American tech companies. Now that is nine of the top 10 25 years 00:47:22.240 --> 00:47:24.477 later. So Silicon Valley has truly I 00:47:24.560 --> 00:47:29.997 think transformed with software um you know the the the size and scale of how 00:47:30.080 --> 00:47:31.277 large you can build these companies. 00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:34.637 Many of the companies that are now in the top 10 in terms of of market cap 00:47:34.720 --> 00:47:38.717 didn't even exist in 2000. Um, so I think that's something where other 00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:42.157 nations look at what Silicon Valley can build, whether it's hardware, software, 00:47:42.240 --> 00:47:44.397 whether it's, you know, companies that are building in the physical world and 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:47.597 say we want to bring this to our own country. How do we do that? And the 00:47:47.680 --> 00:47:51.517 spirit of American dynamism is recognizing that it's not just uh, you 00:47:51.600 --> 00:47:55.917 know, an economic zone in a silo. It's not just um pure software. Like the 00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:59.277 companies that are that are really having the impact of that scale are 00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:02.317 building the physical world and they're interfacing with governments not only in 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.117 the US, but they're interfacing with governments around the world. And in 00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:09.517 order to build, you know, many many more of those companies, um, we we have to 00:48:09.600 --> 00:48:12.797 have sort of a game plan of of how you interface with with regulators, with 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:17.117 governments, um, and with the international community. 00:48:17.200 --> 00:48:19.757 And >> Ben, what would you add to that? 00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.717 >> Yeah, I think that um, you know, 00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.117 geopolitically we we've kind of entered 00:48:25.200 --> 00:48:28.157 a new era. Uh and so if you kind of go 00:48:28.240 --> 00:48:30.717 back, you know, post World War II, we 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:34.157 had kind of um bombed our big 00:48:34.240 --> 00:48:39.197 manufacturing competitors, you know, Japan and and Germany uh kind of out of 00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:40.877 existence or out of the game for a while 00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:43.437 and America became the the just the 00:48:43.520 --> 00:48:46.317 dominant economic power uh in the world 00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:49.117 for for decades. And as a result, we 00:48:49.200 --> 00:48:52.397 could be um team America world police uh 00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:56.637 and just kind of, you know, provide defense to everybody. And our our 00:48:56.720 --> 00:49:01.757 strategy was kind of like it's actually not only do we not, you know, we don't 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.037 need other countries to defend themselves. If they were to do so, it 00:49:05.120 --> 00:49:09.117 might be dangerous. And so we kind of uh station our troops all over the world. 00:49:09.200 --> 00:49:11.677 And we built this massive military. Um 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:14.957 fast forward to 2025, we're $ 38 00:49:15.040 --> 00:49:17.997 trillion in debt. Um and you know 00:49:18.080 --> 00:49:21.837 there's a very uh competitive superpower 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.757 um economically in China uh who has a I 00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:30.157 I I would just say a very different idea about the way the world should work and 00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:31.917 the way their society should work than 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:34.717 than we do. And so now we're in a 00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:38.157 position where allies matter a lot. Um, 00:49:38.240 --> 00:49:40.397 and not only do allies matter, but we 00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.517 need them to uh to be able to defend 00:49:43.600 --> 00:49:45.757 themselves and to work with us to kind 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:50.477 of defend our values, our kind of way of 00:49:50.560 --> 00:49:54.877 life, our view of freedom. Um, and you know, what it means to kind of be a 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:56.717 citizen. 00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:59.997 And you know as a result of that uh you 00:50:00.080 --> 00:50:02.317 know American dynamism does need to kind 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.557 of extend out beyond America to our 00:50:04.640 --> 00:50:07.597 allies because you know if they are 00:50:07.680 --> 00:50:09.757 providing their own defense um and they 00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:11.917 are allied with us then they need these 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.037 same kinds of uh technologies and uh and 00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:19.437 products and so you know it's just part of the overall mission that I think we 00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:23.037 have to pursue. It also makes the economics for these companies work 00:50:23.120 --> 00:50:26.797 better if there are kind of a larger market for them. going to deeper on on 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:30.957 China, it seems like a lot of the cultural embracing of American dynamism 00:50:31.040 --> 00:50:34.477 stems from some of the realities that Katherine mentioned like like Ukraine, 00:50:34.560 --> 00:50:38.157 like COVID and and of course sort of this great power conflict with with with 00:50:38.240 --> 00:50:42.477 China and people realizing the the urgency of of uh and need to to prepare 00:50:42.560 --> 00:50:46.557 for it and it seems to inspire a lot uh you know some of the American dynamism 00:50:46.640 --> 00:50:48.637 um f focus and and and where we invest. 00:50:48.720 --> 00:50:53.197 So maybe let's just briefly take stock on what are the areas in which uh 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:57.997 they're ahead, what what are our unique advantages and how does that inform uh 00:50:58.080 --> 00:51:01.517 sort of where we're thinking for for American dynamism. Katherine, do you 00:51:01.600 --> 00:51:03.597 want to take initial step? >> Sure. 00:51:03.680 --> 00:51:06.877 >> Yeah. I mean, I thought the the conversation that that you all had in 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:08.797 the last episode with with Brian and 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.597 Chris about what does it mean to to 00:51:11.680 --> 00:51:14.317 participate in wars of mass is one that 00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:18.637 Silicon Valley really hadn't thought about uh until very recently. Um, you 00:51:18.720 --> 00:51:21.997 know, I if if you go to Washington, there's all this talk now about what is 00:51:22.080 --> 00:51:25.437 what is known as a treatable systems, which are systems where, you know, 00:51:25.520 --> 00:51:29.037 you're not spending millions and millions of dollars building out 00:51:29.120 --> 00:51:33.277 exquisite systems that that only are are usable once. You're you're building out, 00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:37.757 you know, very cheap drones, very cheap hardware where if you lose them, that's 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:41.517 okay. And because the and the reason why that is so important um is because I 00:51:41.600 --> 00:51:44.477 think a lot of the the learnings of Ukraine um if you have an exquisite 00:51:44.560 --> 00:51:47.037 system that was hundreds of millions of dollars and it can be taken out with a 00:51:47.120 --> 00:51:51.757 thousand dollar drone uh that changes the economics of war and it particularly 00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:56.397 changes the the economics of a war of mass. Um so I'd encourage people to to 00:51:56.480 --> 00:52:00.317 kind of understand um the sort of complexities of of why you know why it 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:03.357 matters so much that we've exported our manufacturing that we can't uh 00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:07.597 manufacture these attitudable systems as cheaply and as quickly and in terms of 00:52:07.680 --> 00:52:11.757 as as as many um as say as say China could. But I say there's there's two 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.517 also there's two really important things to take from the war in Ukraine which is 00:52:15.600 --> 00:52:20.237 that China has been supplying both sides of that war. Um, when you look at sort 00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:23.597 of the drone warfare that is that has come out of the trenches for the last 3 00:52:23.680 --> 00:52:27.037 years, you know, China is a is a supplier in the same way that Russia is 00:52:27.120 --> 00:52:29.677 a supplier to to its own side. But that 00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:31.917 means that their their industrial bases 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:36.717 have been built up in a way that the US industrial base hasn't built up um in 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:39.437 the past 3 years. And that's something that I think a lot of our American 00:52:39.520 --> 00:52:42.797 dynamism companies are very cognizant of. um that we're we're at a 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:46.397 disadvantage because we haven't been supplying just in time manufacturing to 00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:51.437 to the Ukrainians in the way that say um you know Chinese parts um have been. And 00:52:51.520 --> 00:52:54.317 so that that's something we we very much have to think about when we think about 00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:58.157 wars of mass is how quickly can we can we start investing in our manufacturing 00:52:58.240 --> 00:53:01.517 base so that we can have this just in time manufacturing and these attritable 00:53:01.600 --> 00:53:06.157 systems um to compete against a country that that has been building for the last 00:53:06.240 --> 00:53:09.597 20 years. Mark, I'd like to hear your your 00:53:09.680 --> 00:53:13.917 thoughts on on on manufacturing. We were talking offline a bit ago and about how, 00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:18.557 you know, people hope for the old manufacturing jobs back and and how it's 00:53:18.640 --> 00:53:21.517 uh harder to to bring those back, but there's an opportunity for for more 00:53:21.600 --> 00:53:25.037 advanced manufacturing. Why don't you describe the opportunity you see it? 00:53:25.120 --> 00:53:29.197 >> Yeah, so I g I grew up in sort of described as light manufacturing country 00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:33.597 um in Wisconsin. So we were adjacent to Detroit um and we sort of viscerally 00:53:33.680 --> 00:53:37.277 experienced you know the decline and fall of Detroit um you know but we were 00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:40.477 we were right in the middle of it but we were kind of around the edges um and so 00:53:40.560 --> 00:53:44.397 you know been thinking about this you know for for for a long time. Um, look, 00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:47.517 I think the the the sort of the sort of great offshoring of manufacturing that 00:53:47.600 --> 00:53:49.997 happened over the last 40 years, you know, happened as a result of of a set 00:53:50.080 --> 00:53:53.517 of policy issues, uh, a set of policy decisions, like a set of explicit 00:53:53.600 --> 00:53:55.757 decisions that were made, and we could we could we could spend a long time 00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:58.557 talking about, you know, those decisions, but that, you know, it was it 00:53:58.640 --> 00:54:01.757 was it was a real set of decisions. Um, there are a set of policy decisions that 00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:04.237 have to be made and and and are currently, you know, some of them are in 00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:07.997 the works now. Um, you know, to kind of uh to kind of reverse that. But, you 00:54:08.080 --> 00:54:11.597 know, kind of to your point, actually, I'll I'll quote Heracitus. uh a man 00:54:11.680 --> 00:54:14.477 cannot uh step into the same river twice 00:54:14.560 --> 00:54:16.397 uh because it is not the same river and 00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:20.237 he is not the same man. Um right so 00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:23.757 what's not like even if you completely cleaned up all the regulatory stuff and 00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:26.957 legal stuff which I think we should um and you you you sort of corrected the 00:54:27.040 --> 00:54:30.157 incentives that drove everything out I think what you're just not going to get 00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:32.317 practically is you're just you're not going to get the old factories back and 00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:35.197 you're not getting the old jobs back in the in the way that they were 40 years 00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:38.637 ago when they were lost. Um and the reason you're not going to get that is 00:54:38.720 --> 00:54:40.877 it's actually several reasons. one is that the nature of the products 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:45.677 themselves have changed and I'll talk about that a little bit. Um uh and by 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:47.997 the way to the good that you know the the things that are getting manufactured 00:54:48.080 --> 00:54:51.437 in the in in in the in the future decades are much more complex and 00:54:51.520 --> 00:54:54.637 sophisticated and technologically you know kind of infused and powered than 00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:57.997 than the things that that used to get manufactured. So the products themselves 00:54:58.080 --> 00:55:01.197 have changed. Um the the methods of manufacturing have changed. So there's 00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:04.637 you know a lot more a lot more robotics and automation now than there was 30 or 00:55:04.720 --> 00:55:08.237 40 years ago. And then the jobs themselves have changed. Um, and you 00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:10.957 know, look, if you go into like a manufacturing plant in China and 00:55:11.040 --> 00:55:13.677 they're, you know, assembling phones or whatever, like you're building bicycles, 00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:16.237 like you are going to see a lot of people, you know, standing at an 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:19.437 assembly line doing the same thing over and over again for 10 hours. Um, and 00:55:19.520 --> 00:55:22.237 there was a component of that to the, you know, manufacturing jobs that were 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:23.837 lost, you know, 40 years ago in the US. 00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:28.237 But like, you're probably not going to get the bicycle manufacturing plant back 00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.197 that's going to build bicycles the way they existed 40 years ago, where the 00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:33.437 plant's going to work the same way it were 40 years ago, and where the jobs 00:55:33.520 --> 00:55:36.557 are going to be the same as they were 40 years ago. And it's just like it's just 00:55:36.640 --> 00:55:40.237 like the the the level, you know, it's one is it just is cheaper to do that 00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:43.757 overseas and then like that that's just that that that's the backward-look view 00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:46.477 like that that's just that's not necessarily the thing you want you want 00:55:46.560 --> 00:55:51.117 to get. What you would like in contrast, right, would be something much better. 00:55:51.200 --> 00:55:53.437 And the better thing, let's just take bicycles as an example. What you 00:55:53.520 --> 00:55:56.317 actually want is you you want to be making electric bikes. You you want to 00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:59.677 be making ebikes, right, which are much more sophisticated, right? physical 00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:02.717 artifacts that involve, you know, batteries and computers and chips and, 00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:04.797 you know, you might want to have all kinds of, you know, advanced 00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:08.637 capabilities in the bike just like people have now in cars and motorcycles. 00:56:08.720 --> 00:56:12.157 Um, and and then um, you know, maybe, by the way, maybe a bike that balances 00:56:12.240 --> 00:56:15.917 itself, right? Like, you know, things like that, right? Um, so like a new kind 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:19.277 of product that's much like more sophisticated um, built in a 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:22.317 manufacturing plant that is more sophisticated, right? and has a much you 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.997 know greater degree of automation where you don't have human beings standing in 00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:29.997 line you know turning a you know turning the same sphere every time for 10 hours 00:56:30.080 --> 00:56:33.197 but where what you have is a large number of jobs that are kind of call 00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:36.557 them blue collar plus jobs and then and then also you know white collar jobs and 00:56:36.640 --> 00:56:40.477 all the associated service jobs around those um that are that are building and 00:56:40.560 --> 00:56:44.317 maintaining that new kind of plant to build that new kind of thing um and and 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:48.397 I think those job and by the way you can see this if you visit a Tesla fac you 00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:51.757 know you go visit a Tesla factory today you know you see this in action like you 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.397 know this is how the world's leading manufacturers actually actually do this 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:58.637 like this is actually happening and so I think what you can do is you can leap 00:56:58.720 --> 00:57:01.037 forward on the nature of the product you're building you can leap forward on 00:57:01.120 --> 00:57:03.357 the nature of the plant that you're building and you can you can leap 00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:07.117 forward and actually create much better jobs right higher paying jobs higher 00:57:07.200 --> 00:57:10.637 skilled jobs that are frankly a lot more pleasant that are a lot more interesting 00:57:10.720 --> 00:57:14.557 and so I I think you want to have like the futuristic outlook on this and and 00:57:14.640 --> 00:57:17.197 then if you pair that with the regulatory reforms and you know you you 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.997 solve all the issues around energy prices and natural resources and 00:57:20.080 --> 00:57:21.437 everything else that need to solved. 00:57:21.520 --> 00:57:26.637 Like I think that's the formula. Um and by the way, if we don't do that, all of 00:57:26.720 --> 00:57:30.077 those things are going to get made in China, which does mean over time, not 00:57:30.160 --> 00:57:33.117 just phones being made in China and not just drones being made in China, but 00:57:33.200 --> 00:57:38.237 also cars. Um and also, um uh uh and also robots. Um you know, you know, the 00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:40.397 great industry of the future that we could spend a long time talking about is 00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:43.997 going to be is going to be robots, right? AI and mechanical form u which is 00:57:44.080 --> 00:57:46.477 going to be, you know, I think the biggest industry that's ever been built. 00:57:46.560 --> 00:57:49.837 And you know, right now, by default, China's set up to do that. You know, 00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:52.877 like what an amazing story it would be for America in the 21st century, which 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:56.077 is we re-industrialize not to build the products of the past, but to build the 00:57:56.160 --> 00:57:59.517 products of the future. And I and I think that's the opportunity. 00:57:59.600 --> 00:58:02.397 >> Let's go deeper there. Uh I want to ask you the same question I asked Katherine 00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:05.757 about our unique strengths relative to to their unique strengths because I I 00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:08.557 heard you say this framing in another conversation which I really liked, which 00:58:08.640 --> 00:58:12.637 is, you know, are we going to win by being more like us or or more like them? 00:58:12.720 --> 00:58:15.197 So why don't you uh flush that out a little bit, Mark? 00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:17.757 >> Yeah. So we actually had this fight, this fight actually happened during the 00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:20.637 during the first cold war with the Soviet Union. Um, and there was just 00:58:20.720 --> 00:58:23.997 this raging debate that started in the, you know, 1920s, but like was fully 00:58:24.080 --> 00:58:26.797 raging in the ' 50s, '60s, '7s, including when I was growing up, which 00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:31.437 is, you know, basically, you know, democracy or dictatorship. Um, and then, 00:58:31.520 --> 00:58:33.517 uh, uh, free markets or, uh, you know, 00:58:33.600 --> 00:58:39.117 state directed capitalism. Um, you know, or sort of state directed production. Um 00:58:39.200 --> 00:58:41.757 and and you know this was a very real debate and and one of the sort of little 00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:44.797 fun facts of how kind of screwy everything got in the 20th century was 00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:48.237 America common American undergraduate textbooks economics textbooks in the 00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:52.717 1980s would stated as fact that communism was a superior economic system 00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:55.837 to capitalism and they they would have these charts of projected growth rates 00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:58.957 and they would show that it's purely inevitable uh that communism was going 00:58:59.040 --> 00:59:01.837 to outperform capitalism because it was a better organized system right it had 00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:05.197 it had top- down controls it didn't have all this messy inefficiency of of of 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:09.277 free market capitalism um and So you know they you a lot of sort of economic 00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:12.237 experts in the US including ones with like big newspaper columns and like big 00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:16.157 media footprints you know were basically selling the siren song of of of 00:59:16.240 --> 00:59:19.597 communism all all the way through the late 80 all through the late ' 80s and 00:59:19.680 --> 00:59:22.157 and and the reason I say that is like that that that debate was actually 00:59:22.240 --> 00:59:25.437 happening all through that period which is right are are you better off having a 00:59:25.520 --> 00:59:29.197 Soviet style system where the state directs production and if the state 00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:32.957 decides that you need to build tanks or planes or cars or anything else like 00:59:33.040 --> 00:59:35.037 they're going to directly that's going to happen it's going to happen with 00:59:35.120 --> 00:59:37.037 maximum sort of centralized efficiency. 00:59:37.120 --> 00:59:39.757 it's going to happen with like the entirety of natur you know the natural 00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:43.197 resources lined up against it like everything orchestrated you know in the 00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:46.957 right way to be able to maximize production um or are you going to have 00:59:47.040 --> 00:59:51.117 the American system which you know has aspects of you know communism here and 00:59:51.200 --> 00:59:54.957 there u you know but it's much more you know the pro argument much more dynamic 00:59:55.040 --> 00:59:58.077 much more flexible um so are you going to have in the American system are you 00:59:58.160 --> 01:00:00.637 going to have a higher degree of sort of independent action on the part of 01:00:00.720 --> 01:00:03.917 individual capitalists indep you know independent companies independent 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:07.117 technologists are you going to be inventing a much broader range of new 01:00:07.200 --> 01:00:09.437 technologies. Are you going to be deploying those technologies in much 01:00:09.520 --> 01:00:12.477 more creative ways? Um or you know, are you going to be just like much much 01:00:12.560 --> 01:00:15.117 faster on the innovation curve because you've unleashed the the sort of 01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:18.237 inherent creativity of all your people rather than just like ordering them to 01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:22.397 all stand in the line together. Um and then you know the capitalist approach is 01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:25.197 messy, right? And you know it has boom bus cycles and it you know it has 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:27.917 companies go out of business and there's like you know sometimes there's too much 01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:31.277 competition and you know profits go to zero and like you know you get into all 01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:35.197 these kind of crazy crazy things but you have you have dynamism on your side, 01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:38.157 right? you you you've got you got you got you got freedom, exploration, 01:00:38.240 --> 01:00:41.277 creativity, innovation, uh uh free 01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:46.157 market competition um and and dynamism on your side. Um I think that question 01:00:46.240 --> 01:00:48.077 was asked and answered in the 20th 01:00:48.160 --> 01:00:51.037 century quite definitively. um you know 01:00:51.120 --> 01:00:54.557 it is back today. um you know the new 01:00:54.640 --> 01:00:58.317 you know the upcoming new mayor of you know of uh New York City uh you know is 01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.837 proposing government run grocery stores right because there you know like it's 01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:05.757 the exact same argument is back and and there are you know people in you know 01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:08.477 you know people in positions of great power uh you know who still want to have 01:01:08.560 --> 01:01:12.477 this argument u I think it's long settled it does seem to be back um it is 01:01:12.560 --> 01:01:14.957 coming back and I think it's fundamentally the same thing and by the 01:01:15.040 --> 01:01:18.157 way like it's not that the centralized approach doesn't have certain advantages 01:01:18.240 --> 01:01:21.197 like if you want to pump out you know 20 million tanks or something or if you 01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:24.557 want to pump out you know a billion phones There is something to a top down 01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:27.997 centralized approach, right? I mean, you know, every company within itself is it 01:01:28.080 --> 01:01:30.397 is it, you know, is a form of a dictatorship that does that. And so, 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:33.597 like, you know, there is some advantage, you know, to China at being able to kind 01:01:33.680 --> 01:01:34.957 of direct all the national resources. 01:01:35.040 --> 01:01:38.557 And and there is something frustrating being on the American side where like in 01:01:38.640 --> 01:01:41.117 theory, you all share the same mission, but in practice, you're too busy beating 01:01:41.200 --> 01:01:44.877 each other's brains out, you know, to, you know, to to ever get to the get to 01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:48.237 the um, you know, in competition, ever get to the shared purpose. Having said 01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:52.477 that, like I I think we won Cold War I by doing it our way. I think we win cold 01:01:52.560 --> 01:01:56.397 war by doing it our way. Um, every time somebody stands up and says we need to 01:01:56.480 --> 01:01:59.757 get to be more like China, I always ask the counter question, you know, where we 01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:03.357 need like more state control, you know, more top down, more direction, uh, more 01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:05.997 planning and all these things, you know, I always just ask the opposite question, 01:02:06.080 --> 01:02:08.877 which is, well, no, actually, like what if we take the opposite approach? What 01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:12.477 if we become more like us, right? And and and what if what if we lean even 01:02:12.560 --> 01:02:15.597 harder into innovation and even harder into creativity and even harder into 01:02:15.680 --> 01:02:18.557 entrepreneurship? And isn't there so much more that we could do if we if we 01:02:18.640 --> 01:02:21.517 if we got to be more like us? And obviously I think that's what we should 01:02:21.600 --> 01:02:24.077 be doing. It is interesting that that that debate is back though. 01:02:24.160 --> 01:02:27.277 >> Mark sort of defined the the Chinese system, but he also sort of defined one 01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:31.757 of the major problems with procurement which is that the the Department of War 01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:35.997 makes its decisions about what weapons it's going to buy on fiveyear cycles, 01:02:36.080 --> 01:02:39.757 10-year production cycles, right? And it's very difficult to to correct the 01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:43.117 ship because of the way that we've structured our procurement process going 01:02:43.200 --> 01:02:47.117 back to going back to the 60s and the 70s. So I think there is something about 01:02:47.200 --> 01:02:50.797 the you know if you look at the last 25 years the second American century has 01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:55.357 been a story of American dynamism innovation creativity and how on a 01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:59.037 global stage that has actually led us from three companies in the top 10 to 01:02:59.120 --> 01:03:01.997 nine companies in the top 10 that are tech companies but the department of 01:03:02.080 --> 01:03:05.517 defense really hasn't benefited from that. It's the exact same companies that 01:03:05.600 --> 01:03:09.677 were that were founded in some founded in world just after World War I 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:13.837 solidified their dominance in World War II and then you know mergers in the 01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:17.357 1990s post the Cold War with this view that we're post war we don't actually 01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:19.197 have to worry about things anymore. So 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:21.597 there really is sort of I think a Soviet 01:03:21.680 --> 01:03:26.317 style uh procurement system that's still at work inside of the Department of War 01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:28.877 and there's many good people in Washington trying to change that to 01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:31.837 allow for this American dynamism to actually flow into the places that it 01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:35.037 needs to exist. So it's actually just a historical tweak which is if you I don't 01:03:35.120 --> 01:03:37.197 know about DoD but if you work with big companies a lot you know one of the 01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.917 things you see is they have they they often have fiveyear plans they have five 01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:43.437 year planning cycles fiveyear strategies and actually you know the creator of the 01:03:43.520 --> 01:03:47.597 concept of the five-year plan was of course Joseph Stalin 01:03:47.680 --> 01:03:50.797 like it it was literally it was literally the Soviet Union run as 01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:55.437 five-year plans and actually in in the between the 20 1920s 1950s that idea 01:03:55.520 --> 01:03:58.237 actually mainstreamed itself into Western society and into Western 01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:00.237 business and has stuck there ever since. 01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:03.197 Um, and and by the way, it routinely doesn't work. Like it like routinely 01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:04.637 fails because the world is too dynamic. 01:04:04.720 --> 01:04:07.517 And, you know, that's that's not nearly a fast enough, you know, iteration 01:04:07.600 --> 01:04:11.037 cycle. Um, and yet people still stick to the five-year plan thing. And it's just 01:04:11.120 --> 01:04:13.517 it's like this it's like the, you know, it's like Soviet communism out, you 01:04:13.600 --> 01:04:16.557 know, the hand coming out of the grave, you know, kind of still strangling our 01:04:16.640 --> 01:04:19.197 ability to actually, you know, advance and be able to, you know, get get our 01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:23.757 jobs done. Um, yeah. And and look, like just to double underline what Katherine 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:27.197 said, right, the battlefield itself is changing, right? Um and so one of the 01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:30.557 things that you see for example in the in the Russia Ukraine conflict is an 01:04:30.640 --> 01:04:33.197 incredibly high rate of iteration the battlefield techniques and use of 01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:35.997 technology on the battlefield you know I mean I don't know whe they have 01:04:36.080 --> 01:04:39.917 Katherine a 5day plan or something you know in the Ukrainian military in terms 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:43.277 of how fast they adopt new technology and adapt what they have um and and 01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:45.117 that's what they need to be able to fight and if they didn't have that 01:04:45.200 --> 01:04:48.637 approach you know they would have lost a long time ago um and and and by the way 01:04:48.720 --> 01:04:52.077 the Russians are you know are trying to match them on that um and so you know 01:04:52.160 --> 01:04:56.957 the the the old model of World War II era you know just simply mass um you 01:04:57.040 --> 01:05:00.877 know mass machinery and mass men to win wars like those days are long over. Um 01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:03.517 you know even even when you have like this very kind of contentious you know 01:05:03.600 --> 01:05:06.157 even the modern version of trench warfare still you still have this very 01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:10.797 rapid iterative cycle time um and and if and again this should play greatly to 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:13.917 America's benefit if we unleash our strength which is if we take our 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:17.677 strength of flexibility innovation creativity dynamism uh and apply that 01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:20.237 into the battlefield of the future like we we really ought to win if we're 01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:24.877 really able to do that. Yeah, I I I would just add to Mark's thinking um 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:26.717 that 01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:29.837 going the other direction for the US is 01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:33.357 literally fighting our everything about 01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:37.837 our culture, everything about our history, everything about our system. 01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:40.157 And the fact that it has appeal is like 01:05:40.240 --> 01:05:43.037 I think like a weird psychological 01:05:43.120 --> 01:05:47.917 defect that some people have where they're just they just always want 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:51.757 central control. Um and they always think it's better. And this is, you 01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:56.157 know, the a great investing strategy is to if you see a company with a five-year 01:05:56.240 --> 01:05:58.557 plan, short it. Um, and it works every 01:05:58.640 --> 01:06:02.957 time. And yet they still do it. And I it 01:06:03.040 --> 01:06:06.637 just comes it really has no basis in 01:06:06.720 --> 01:06:10.797 anything. We saw this actually weirdly in networking. You know, Mark and David 01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:12.477 and I all come from the networking field 01:06:12.560 --> 01:06:15.837 and when uh decentralized networks and 01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:17.837 packet switching came, you know, people 01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:20.957 fought it to the death. uh even after 01:06:21.040 --> 01:06:23.437 Len Kleinrock like mathematically proved 01:06:23.520 --> 01:06:28.077 it worked like people would still say it would never work uh because you couldn't 01:06:28.160 --> 01:06:32.317 control it and this and that and the third and you know of course history has 01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:37.357 has proven them all wrong but you know it's not logical it is just like some 01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:39.117 kind of brain defect that they have in 01:06:39.200 --> 01:06:42.157 their psychology where they can't even 01:06:42.240 --> 01:06:46.397 you know visualize the fact that a system could work well that's 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:49.917 decentralized. Well, I think we we see this over and 01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:53.597 over again. I mean, I I even think about, you know, there was like uh I'm 01:06:53.680 --> 01:06:56.717 curious what Mark thinks, but like when I think about Project Warp Speed, to me, 01:06:56.800 --> 01:07:00.477 that was like promoting capitalism at its best. We said like, you know, any 01:07:00.560 --> 01:07:03.517 company that creates a vaccine like like we will distribute it, the government 01:07:03.600 --> 01:07:06.877 will distribute it. And then so it's not that there's no role for government, but 01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:10.317 they really step stepped aside and let the private companies come up with a 01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:13.757 vaccine, which happened much faster. And we had, you know, depending on how you 01:07:13.840 --> 01:07:17.197 count, we had three working vaccines in a record-breaking time. I mean if you 01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:20.477 look at what China did they they did not have that and they were unsuccessful 01:07:20.560 --> 01:07:24.477 because they weren't able to lean on creativity and ingenuity. I think when 01:07:24.560 --> 01:07:28.397 we look at defense you know some of the defense reforms that we want to see 01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:32.397 happen are things that actually push more toward entrepreneurship not on past 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:36.237 performance but like what can you do for me today? What can you deliver today? 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:40.477 Can we can we put out the demand signals and then have you actually deliver it 01:07:40.560 --> 01:07:44.717 against against those? Not look at what you did 10 years ago, 20 years ago. you 01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:49.277 know, the idea that there the government currently puts out RSPs that that have a 01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:52.957 criteria of what have you delivered in the past, no matter if it was over 01:07:53.040 --> 01:07:57.037 budget um or over time, but just what what have you done in the past doesn't 01:07:57.120 --> 01:08:01.437 uh doesn't lend toward leaning towards startups and uh so some of the changes 01:08:01.520 --> 01:08:04.637 we're pushing for I think will benefit all companies and certainly will benefit 01:08:04.720 --> 01:08:08.317 America and actually lean more toward that idea of entrepreneurship 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:10.237 um and and to what we're best at. 01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:14.717 >> Yeah. And an even uh kind of better or an equally good example of that is you 01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:16.637 know the whole chip industry in the US 01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:19.757 kind of came out of uh the uh the the 01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:23.197 the the race to get to the moon. Um 01:08:23.280 --> 01:08:25.037 where the US government specified look 01:08:25.120 --> 01:08:27.517 if you build a a chip with these 01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.717 characteristics we'll buy it. Um and so 01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:34.717 the government is can set rules can create incentives can do a lot of good 01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:37.037 things. Um but centrally controlling 01:08:37.120 --> 01:08:39.997 everything uh tends not to work so well 01:08:40.080 --> 01:08:44.397 at least for us. >> So segueing more more concretely into 01:08:44.480 --> 01:08:48.637 some American dynamism investment thesis. Um do you why don't you share a 01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:51.517 couple of the areas we're particularly excited about or opportunities we're 01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:54.237 looking at. >> Yeah, I'll I'll start and then maybe 01:08:54.320 --> 01:08:58.717 Katherine can jump in. Um I think energy is a great one. We you know you can sort 01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:02.717 of zoom in at any level you want. at a macro level uh you know we've just seen 01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:06.317 throughout history when you pour energy into a system you get just tremendous 01:09:06.400 --> 01:09:11.277 economic output economic growth um if you look at where where we are today not 01:09:11.360 --> 01:09:16.077 even looking forward we have this insatiable thirst for for energy um 01:09:16.160 --> 01:09:19.677 whether it's for AI compute or whether it's for people switching to electric 01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:24.157 vehicles um or even moving to systems that are just electrified I mean even 01:09:24.240 --> 01:09:27.917 the entire department of war has multiple initiatives about moving toward 01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.477 electrification um and so that This has 01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:35.037 this this huge uh consequence of creating opportunities for power 01:09:35.120 --> 01:09:38.877 generation, power transmission, power storage. And the question is are there 01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:42.157 going to be opportunities that we think are venture scale there? We think there 01:09:42.240 --> 01:09:44.317 are. We've invested in nuclear power 01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:49.437 companies, a company called Radiant Nuclear. Um we've invested in uh Exolot. 01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:53.357 Uh we've looked at lots of battery technology companies. Um, and we might 01:09:53.440 --> 01:09:55.837 just think there's great opportunities here, but I mean, even just 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:59.837 pragmatically, you know, we we have three companies now that are on China's 01:09:59.920 --> 01:10:04.877 unreliable entities list, which is an an amazingly named list, but they're 01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:08.077 they're forbidden now from buying batteries from China. So, it's like if 01:10:08.160 --> 01:10:11.677 you care about the defense industrial base, if you care about uh anything that 01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:14.957 requires a battery, even consumer electronics, like you need to have 01:10:15.040 --> 01:10:18.877 battery capability in the United States and or or amongst our allies, you need 01:10:18.960 --> 01:10:22.077 to have there's a whole bunch of things you need. And uh so we just think 01:10:22.160 --> 01:10:26.397 there's exciting opportunities there on on the energy side um in the same vein 01:10:26.480 --> 01:10:30.397 if you start if you continue to shift left uh you look at critical minerals 01:10:30.480 --> 01:10:32.877 and whether it's magnets uh whether it's 01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:34.557 motors whether it's copper for 01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:38.317 manufacturing uh whether it's steel um 01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:39.997 there there's all the all these areas 01:10:40.080 --> 01:10:45.357 where you know software that are massive massive economic um spend centers I mean 01:10:45.440 --> 01:10:46.797 trillions of trillions of dollars is 01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:50.557 spent in mining in construction uh in 01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:53.757 manufacturing uh where software has 01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:57.917 really not uh looked into these areas like nobody's figured out can you really 01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:02.237 apply uh advanced algorithms to figure out how to do mining better. Um and 01:11:02.320 --> 01:11:04.957 while that sounds like a quote that would be like you know memeable of like 01:11:05.040 --> 01:11:08.557 why that sounds so stupid it's actually not stupid. There's pressure, there's 01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:11.837 temperature, there's a lot of work that goes into mining, not just in sight 01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:13.517 selection, but actually in the process. 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:17.677 And these are areas where I think we now see incredible talent shifting their 01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:21.437 their eyes toward these areas. And, you know, we we just think it's a great 01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:23.757 opportunity and it will ultimately be good for America. 01:11:23.840 --> 01:11:26.477 >> If we go back to sort of our early investments, you know, again, 01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:30.477 investments like Ander and Shield AI where we led the series A in 2016, we've 01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:34.957 been around this space for a very long time. Um, but those early companies, 01:11:35.040 --> 01:11:38.957 they had no other choice but to be what's known as the prime. They had to 01:11:39.040 --> 01:11:41.277 compete against the legacy incumbents. 01:11:41.360 --> 01:11:44.317 They had to try to get their own contracts in working with the Department 01:11:44.400 --> 01:11:48.477 of War. And it was a uphill battle for them as they were the first. But what 01:11:48.560 --> 01:11:51.757 we're seeing now from our our companies, which you know, I I always refer to them 01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:56.717 as sort of defense 2.0 or the ones that really started around 2021 2022. These 01:11:56.800 --> 01:12:00.317 companies are happy to work with the existing legacy primes. I'd also say 01:12:00.400 --> 01:12:03.597 that a lot of the industrial base is is kind of waking up and recognizing that 01:12:03.680 --> 01:12:06.877 they need to bring software. They need to bring uh the best and brightest 01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:10.077 engineers from Silicon Valley into what they're offering government and they're 01:12:10.160 --> 01:12:13.837 already on contracts. So, one of the things that we've seen at least in in in 01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:15.517 the kind of second cohort that's come 01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:18.157 through American Dynamism Fund 1 is that 01:12:18.240 --> 01:12:21.357 these companies can grow so much faster 01:12:21.440 --> 01:12:26.077 and they have a much richer customer set that they're supporting because of that. 01:12:26.160 --> 01:12:29.197 Um, so I think that's something that's sometimes lost on people is just how how 01:12:29.280 --> 01:12:32.397 is it how is it possible that these companies can can really be working with 01:12:32.480 --> 01:12:36.237 the government this quickly. One, it's because you have a a government now that 01:12:36.320 --> 01:12:39.357 understands why they need to bring these companies in from, you know, from from 01:12:39.440 --> 01:12:43.037 Silicon Valley or other places that really understand nextgen engineering. 01:12:43.120 --> 01:12:46.797 But like the real reason is everyone's sort of woken up to to the opportunity. 01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:49.917 Um, and there's a lot of partnerships that are happening among the legacy and 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:52.957 the new new players. And and they're they're reaching, I would say, 01:12:53.040 --> 01:12:56.877 extraordinary heights much earlier in their trajectory than than the previous 01:12:56.960 --> 01:13:02.077 generation of of space and defense companies in 1.0. 01:13:02.160 --> 01:13:05.917 >> I'd also say a lot of these founders are coming from some of these version 1.0 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:10.397 companies. So, they've seen what success looks like in these areas at least at 01:13:10.480 --> 01:13:13.597 some level. I mean, if you come out of SpaceX and you were there for, you know, 01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:18.317 six, seven, eight years and you saw how SpaceX got built, like you have a huge 01:13:18.400 --> 01:13:22.397 head start in starting the next American Dynamism company. 01:13:22.480 --> 01:13:24.477 >> Yeah. To that you mentioned some winners 01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:28.317 in in the portfolio and and you know, others like Ceronics and Apex and Bass 01:13:28.400 --> 01:13:30.557 and Flock and and and and many others. 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:34.397 Um, as as they've emerged, what can we and maybe gearing towards closing here, 01:13:34.480 --> 01:13:38.477 what can you say about the founders and the the types of founders that are that 01:13:38.560 --> 01:13:42.077 are building these companies? uh maybe what's interesting about sort of them 01:13:42.160 --> 01:13:46.397 culturally or or philosophically or or their backgrounds or or or what what 01:13:46.480 --> 01:13:49.037 they're understanding that may maybe others don't don't fully appreciate. 01:13:49.120 --> 01:13:50.957 Katherine, what would you say? 01:13:51.040 --> 01:13:53.597 >> Well, I'd say you know what what's what we've always pointed to is that these 01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:57.357 companies are built across America. So Seronic is based in Austin, Flock is 01:13:57.440 --> 01:14:01.757 based in Atlanta. And if you look at the the founders, it it's not your typical 01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:06.397 again to go back to the the Bob noise uh Harvard dorm room comparison. It's not 01:14:06.480 --> 01:14:10.397 your typical, you know, software engineer coming out of a college dorm. 01:14:10.480 --> 01:14:13.677 Like these are people, you know, the case of of Dino at Seronic, you know, he 01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:18.557 served in the Navy Seals enlisted for 11 years before going back to to school and 01:14:18.640 --> 01:14:21.357 then and then founding companies and learning private equity, right? So, it's 01:14:21.440 --> 01:14:25.917 there there's something about being um entrenched in what the customer needs 01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:29.437 that I think is very specific to American dynamism. A lot of the best 01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:32.797 founders, you know, they've either sold to the government before they, you know, 01:14:32.880 --> 01:14:35.597 many of them have clearances before they even start their company. They 01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:38.957 understand um how to how to how to really speak the language of the 01:14:39.040 --> 01:14:41.757 customer, which I think is is very important for this category. It's 01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:44.877 something that we always, you know, really look for when we're investing in 01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:48.477 new companies is how deeply does this founder understand the customer. And 01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:51.437 it's very hard to understand the customer if you've never served, if 01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:55.037 you've never worked inside of government. And so I'd say that's 01:14:55.120 --> 01:14:58.637 actually something we very much test for across these categories is how deeply do 01:14:58.720 --> 01:15:00.797 you understand who you're selling to? 01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:04.397 >> May maybe just gearing forward, um, you know, we've we've covered the the past 01:15:04.480 --> 01:15:06.237 and present of of American Dynamism. 01:15:06.320 --> 01:15:10.157 What can you tell us about what what we're looking forward to? 01:15:10.240 --> 01:15:11.997 Yeah, I mean I think that we're in this 01:15:12.080 --> 01:15:17.677 exciting moment in time where both the the need and the demand uh for new 01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:22.557 technologies whether it's in public safety or or uh in in the department of 01:15:22.640 --> 01:15:25.917 war uh or anywhere else in the government or just anywhere across the 01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:29.357 United States is greater than it's ever been. We're also at this major 01:15:29.440 --> 01:15:32.877 transformation moment. You know, Mark mentioned I think robotics is AI 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:36.877 personified in physical form. Um I think it's going to be extremely exciting. I 01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:40.477 think it's a lot closer than people think. Um, you know, if you've been in 01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:44.237 San Francisco, got into a Whimo, you already know that, um, autonomy and 01:15:44.320 --> 01:15:49.757 self-driving cars is absolutely uh going to be like the way forward. Um, we we 01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:52.397 just see that there's we're just sort of, you know, entering this incredible 01:15:52.480 --> 01:15:54.317 moment in time where new technology is 01:15:54.400 --> 01:15:56.957 meeting these very very legacy uh and 01:15:57.040 --> 01:16:00.237 old uh uh categories and and I'm very 01:16:00.320 --> 01:16:04.237 excited about where it's going. we see more and more founders entering the area 01:16:04.320 --> 01:16:06.637 uh across all these different domains. 01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:10.077 Um and you know for us to me it's just 01:16:10.160 --> 01:16:14.957 like this this we're just in the early innings of America sort of on a major uh 01:16:15.040 --> 01:16:18.717 comeback when it comes to introducing new technology into these key areas. I 01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:21.517 think it's pretty exciting. >> That's uh sounds like a great place to 01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:22.797 wrap. This is a great conversation on 01:16:22.880 --> 01:16:28.760 the history and philosophy and the past, present, future of American dynamism.