WEBVTT 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:04.717 I think a decade looking back, it'll it'll be obvious that 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:09.437 intelligence became abundant and that agency became abundant. Like the current 00:00:09.520 --> 00:00:10.637 trends we're on are just going to keep 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:13.117 continuing. And um this will be very 00:00:13.200 --> 00:00:16.477 strange. I mean, I think for the history 00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:19.317 of humanity, um you know, groups of 00:00:19.400 --> 00:00:23.637 smart people getting together towards a shared goal was was the bottleneck of 00:00:23.720 --> 00:00:27.437 progress. You know, US The United States of America in some sense was an example. 00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:30.757 It's like the United States of America is formed from a smart group of very 00:00:30.840 --> 00:00:33.917 smart people getting together and having a vision for the future that they wanted 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:38.077 to enact. And that's the story of nearly every company um in America and the 00:00:38.160 --> 00:00:41.637 story of every YC company. Um and 00:00:41.720 --> 00:00:43.957 that's going to change. Like all of a 00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:48.957 sudden the scarce resource isn't going to be intelligence or agency. I really 00:00:49.040 --> 00:00:52.917 think it's going to be vision and ambition. It's like, do you have a clear 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:56.197 view of what you want the world to look like in 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:59.797 the future? What is the like one way in which you want to put your finger on the 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:04.117 scale for how the future of the world will develop and how the how the world 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:07.517 will look like in 5 to 10 years that it does not look like today? And do you 00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:10.077 have the ambition and drive to like go 00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:11.637 through all the crap to make that 00:01:11.720 --> 00:01:14.597 happen? And AI will make that easier. 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:19.717 Like agents and AI makes that maybe 10 times or 100 times easier than it was a 00:01:19.800 --> 00:01:22.637 decade ago. But the flip side of that is then you all of a sudden you can dream 00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:26.117 bigger. Like I think And the world is like 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:28.317 um you know, there's so many things that 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:31.557 need to evolve for us to be able to 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:36.077 fully embrace this technology. Um you know, the world is like really just, you 00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:39.597 know, barely even ready for this technology today. And I think, you know, 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:44.277 as a builder, we have a responsibility to prepare the world, right? Like we 00:01:44.360 --> 00:01:48.517 have to help enterprises and governments, you know, to adapt to this 00:01:48.600 --> 00:01:52.037 new technology. We have to help figure out how we secure the world from a 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:54.997 biosecurity perspective or a cybersecurity perspective. We have to 00:01:55.080 --> 00:01:59.877 figure out how we um how we're going to to manage all these risks that we see 00:01:59.960 --> 00:02:03.997 with this new technology. But on the flip side, it's also the time of like, 00:02:04.080 --> 00:02:07.397 you know, unprecedented opportunity for humans. Like we can develop new 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:10.677 sciences. We can solve problems in health and biology that have been 00:02:10.760 --> 00:02:13.357 forever unsolved. We can build new businesses that you couldn't have even 00:02:13.440 --> 00:02:16.277 imagined before. There's like new creative opportunities that couldn't 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:18.837 have existed before. So it's like 00:02:18.920 --> 00:02:21.757 it's just this incredible cradle of of 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.317 opportunity and risks that 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:29.557 I think makes it like no better time to be someone who's a builder and 00:02:29.640 --> 00:02:32.797 has a strong view of how the world should change. 00:02:32.880 --> 00:02:35.877 >> Do you think the path has changed? I mean, one of the things I saw, I think 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.837 Stanford, the amount of computer science majors actually dropped by some 00:02:39.920 --> 00:02:44.277 double-digit percentage. People sort of worried like, which is sort of insane to 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:48.277 me. Like you still sort of need those skills to even create agents that are 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:51.797 that good. Maybe that won't be true. I'm not really sure. 00:02:51.880 --> 00:02:55.077 How you know, have you changed you know, what do you what would you say to people 00:02:55.160 --> 00:02:59.077 in this audience right now? Like this is sort of a real question that people are 00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:03.077 sort of facing. Like should they become more word cell and less shape rotator? 00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:08.717 Like what you know, what's the move? And you has that changed um 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:11.717 the kind of people you're looking to hire and you know, how you manage your 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:13.877 teams right now at Meta? 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.757 >> I think systematic and rigorous thinking 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:20.917 are still incredibly important because you know, the abstraction layer, I mean, 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.237 I didn't used to believe that this is how this is going to play out, but it 00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:27.557 really has. Like the abstraction layer just keeps changing. So, you know, when 00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:32.437 I started a company, back in my day, we wrote code. Um >> [laughter] 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:35.837 >> And now, you know, I'm sure nobody here writes code anymore. That's ridiculous. 00:03:35.920 --> 00:03:39.597 But um but now it's about how do you orchestrate the agents together? And 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:43.117 then it's like, how do you develop these organizations of agents? Like how do you 00:03:43.200 --> 00:03:45.997 get like a million agents to work together well? And then it'll be, how do 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.397 you get like a trillion agents to work together well? Like I think that there's 00:03:49.480 --> 00:03:51.957 going to be this continued um 00:03:52.040 --> 00:03:55.597 uh need to figure out how you structure, 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:59.477 uh, workflows at the abstraction layer that we're going to be operating at. And 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.157 that form of like rigorous systematic 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.597 thinking, I mean, traditionally the way this would work, like in my era of 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:10.117 starting companies, is you would start by writing code, and then you would have 00:04:10.200 --> 00:04:12.637 organizations of humans, and you'd figure out how you how to organize those 00:04:12.720 --> 00:04:16.477 humans. Um, and that requires system thinking. And now, maybe it's like much 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.037 more much closer to first you you work with the agent, then you figure out how 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:23.037 to organize like these agents, but, um, 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:27.597 but I think systems thinking is never going to go out of style. So, I think 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.197 it's definitely a mistake to go all in on Word cell. Like, I think you need to 00:04:31.280 --> 00:04:33.797 you need to shape rotate. Um, but then I 00:04:33.880 --> 00:04:36.197 think the sort of like, um, 00:04:36.280 --> 00:04:38.357 much more of I think what's necessary 00:04:38.440 --> 00:04:41.277 going in the future is having, um, 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:46.357 a deeper sort of compass and philosophical view on how the world 00:04:46.440 --> 00:04:48.037 should develop. Because I think there 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:50.677 are there are many many lessons, um, 00:04:50.760 --> 00:04:53.597 from human history around, um, 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:55.917 how how we think civilization go through 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:00.637 this period, and, um, so, you know, humanity will change more 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:02.197 in the next decade than it has in the 00:05:02.280 --> 00:05:05.397 past 100 years, probably. And, um, 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:07.797 and so, I think like the imperative for 00:05:07.880 --> 00:05:10.077 us to have positive visions for that, 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:14.957 and have coherent articulations of how that should develop are are more 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:19.357 important than ever. >> Um, let's get a little more concrete. I 00:05:19.440 --> 00:05:21.957 mean, one of the things I'm curious about is like, are there sort of 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:26.757 applications of AI that you're seeing among your friends or internal to Meta 00:05:26.840 --> 00:05:30.597 that you can talk about that are, you know, they're sort of obvious near term, 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:34.627 maybe people haven't figured out yet. I mean, give us some alpha. 00:05:34.710 --> 00:05:37.597 >> [laughter] >> Um, I mean, 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.117 I think there's still just like astronomical opportunity in, uh, 00:05:42.200 --> 00:05:44.317 agentic looping, and and figuring out 00:05:44.400 --> 00:05:47.277 how you develop systems that enable you 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.717 to spend like 1,000 x more or 1 million 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:54.437 x more on tokens to drive an outcome in 00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:58.117 a in a continuous feedback loop. Like if you think about most companies, 00:05:58.200 --> 00:06:02.037 companies are just these like large-scale feedback loops where humans 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:05.917 are operating each of the edges. Like, you know, companies they 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.717 they get customers and they figure out to make those customers happier. And if 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:11.477 customers are happier, then they spend more. And if they spend more, then they 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:13.957 can hire more people who can then go figure out how to get more customers and 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.477 make those customers happier. And that's like this you know, that in some sense 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:19.997 is the feedback loop of 00:06:20.080 --> 00:06:22.477 every startup or every business. And you 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:25.117 know, these within that there are micro 00:06:25.200 --> 00:06:29.717 feedback loops that exist. And I think developing agentic systems that can 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:34.517 operate and optimize these feedback loops is there's like just huge amounts 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:38.317 of alpha there. Like I think we've seen internally at Meta 00:06:38.400 --> 00:06:42.877 cases where if you can develop the right agentic loop and you have the right eval 00:06:42.960 --> 00:06:44.917 or the right metric for the agents to 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:48.757 optimize, you can have a swarm of agents 00:06:48.840 --> 00:06:54.077 accomplish more than like a team of 100 engineers in you know, 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:58.077 very very handily actually, very very easily. And so, I think figuring out 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:03.077 what the world looks like with lots of 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.437 sort of this like these agentic coordination problems. I 00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:08.757 think that is like one of the most interesting problems today. So, 00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:10.837 mechanically speaking, I mean, markdown 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:13.237 files, cron jobs. Is I mean, is it 00:07:13.320 --> 00:07:15.877 that's and then basically pointing the 00:07:15.960 --> 00:07:19.157 agent at enough data so that it can 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:23.117 figure something out that you know, maybe isn't in distribution. Yeah, I 00:07:23.200 --> 00:07:25.717 think figuring out yeah, yeah, mechanically figuring out what the 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:31.557 metric is. And yeah, it just comes down to skills, markdown files, cron jobs. 00:07:31.640 --> 00:07:35.877 >> Slash goal. >> Yeah, slash goal. Like I think I think it's always funny how 00:07:35.960 --> 00:07:38.557 mundane everything is once you really dig into it. But um 00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:41.437 >> So, it's not magic. You know, I mean, some some people put a lot of magic 00:07:41.520 --> 00:07:44.797 There's like some LinkedIn threads out there about some magic stuff. 00:07:44.880 --> 00:07:47.077 >> advice, ignore LinkedIn. >> Hey. 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:49.557 >> LinkedIn is where you get customers. 00:07:49.640 --> 00:07:55.277 >> [laughter] >> So, uh I like to end on this, which is um 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.157 you know, you get a telegram to send to the 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:03.397 18-year-old version of yourself. You know, what do you say to that person 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.437 right now, given all, you know, I mean thank you for coming back and sharing 00:08:07.520 --> 00:08:10.917 your wisdom with this audience. I mean, you know, what would you send in a a 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.997 message in a bottle to the 18-year-old version of yourself right now? 00:08:14.080 --> 00:08:16.557 >> Yeah, I think the 00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:18.917 I think it really boils down to 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:21.437 develop your own internal compass for 00:08:21.520 --> 00:08:23.717 how you think the future will develop 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:26.157 and have strong conviction in it 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.477 because, you know, you will get so you 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:33.877 will get inundated with noise and people telling you and like you'll get be 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:35.957 very confusing and it'll be very hard. 00:08:36.040 --> 00:08:40.237 And especially when you're young and you don't have experience like it can feel 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:45.077 very difficult to um have true conviction in what you believe 00:08:45.160 --> 00:08:47.717 and and what you want to do. But, I think that's the most important thing. 00:08:47.800 --> 00:08:50.517 Kind of as we talked about, you know, um 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.397 it took a deep, deep conviction in what 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:55.957 we were building to be able to weather 00:08:56.040 --> 00:08:58.957 the the sort of storms of many years of 00:08:59.040 --> 00:09:02.197 um of uh chaos in the market, in the 00:09:02.280 --> 00:09:06.557 industry, and the people around us. And so, um and and the other piece of advice 00:09:06.640 --> 00:09:08.917 I would have is try to identify what is 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.597 the what is the exponential in the world 00:09:11.680 --> 00:09:14.997 that has both the steepest curve and 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:17.397 will go the longest. And, you know, many 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:20.517 decades ago this curve was uh was 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.557 Moore's law. And that probably was, you know, that was yeah, at the time like 00:09:24.640 --> 00:09:27.637 clearly the right thing to invest on. I think right now it's AI progress, but 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:31.077 there will be more of these very steep curves in the future. And it's fine if 00:09:31.160 --> 00:09:36.357 these curves start um you know, the starting point is very boring or like it 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.757 doesn't even seem that interesting. Like it you know when we started 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:44.037 when I started working on scale, um you know we had cat detectors in YouTube 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:48.677 videos and that felt, you know, it's hard to say explain the story that 00:09:48.760 --> 00:09:51.277 that's like the most important technology of our time, but it was on 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:55.320 just this like unbelievable exponential.