1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,397 nobody wants to talk about but I've started to talk about it's the 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,997 intersection of DEI and and immigration that has really I think warped I think 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,357 our perceptions on high skilled immigration over the last 50 years um 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,637 which basic and you and you see this by the way in like this you just you look 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,837 at like the foreign enrollment rates of the top universities which went from you 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,677 know like two or three or 4% 50 years ago to whatever 27 or 30 or 50 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,317 >> Columbia is over half right now >> 70% or whatever it is and so there's 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,437 been this massive transformation in who gets educated um and then there's been 9 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,477 this massive transformation of who gets admitted through de through affirmative 10 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,717 action and then you know as we now know at DEI um and and again this goes 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,157 straight to the political divide in the country which is if you're a family you 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,077 know if you if you're a family if you're parents of a kid where I grew up um and 13 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:44,957 you've got a smart kid um and you think you're going to get them into you know a 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,877 top university in this country like you are fooling yourself like there is no 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,357 chance right um because they've got their well the top universities 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,517 basically the top universities have basically an admissions program that 17 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,277 looks like this it's like DEI for white people um which is the donors and all 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,797 the fake sports, right? Um, and so lot of fake sports, 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,557 >> like I have a friend who got into Yale to play varsity croquet. Um, [laughter] 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,357 which let me just say is not a sport that we played a lot in rural Wisconsin. 21 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,237 And then you've got, you know, DEI generally for for the other groups. And 22 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:15,597 then you've got this you got this immigration influx. Um, and as a 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,437 consequence of that, like it is nearly impossible uh for somebody coming from 24 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,637 like a Midwestern or rural background or southern background um to get into the 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,397 US. By the way, this doesn't just affect white people. This also obviously now we 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,517 now see how it's affecting Jewish people. Um it it but it actually also 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,357 affects African-Americans uh in a very interesting way which is actually uh 28 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,717 both the universities and the corporate employers are literally this is true. 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,517 They're literally they literally import Africans so that they don't have to hire 30 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,677 African-Americans um because they they they they still count as black. Um there 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,757 was a great story the thing that woke me up to this there was a story in the New 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,597 York Times 20 years ago about Harvard. 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,477 This is a Harvard admits you know black students but which ones back when the 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,357 New York Times could talk about these things honestly. Um, and it quoted 35 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,397 actually Henry Lewis Gates and Lonnie Guineer at the time uh at Harvard Law 36 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,117 School basically observing that African-Americans were not benefiting 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,757 from affirmative affirmative action because Harvard had figured out that 38 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,237 they could import Nigerians. Um, right. 39 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,557 And again, it's just like great, the Nigerians are great. They're very smart. 40 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:07,997 They're very productive. It's fantastic. 41 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,157 You know, all other things being equal, you'd like to have as many of them in 42 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,117 your country, but like is that really why we're doing, you know, the set aside 43 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,357 programs? Um and so like there is this really fundamental question which is 44 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,717 like what level of untapped talent exists in this country that a 45 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,677 combination of DEI and immigration have basically cut out of the loop for the 46 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:29,117 last 50 years. Um and how long can we have this you know story to everybody in 47 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,757 the Midwest and the South that says you know sorry you're you know because of 48 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,357 historical oppression your kids are so >> this is this is the angry populism 49 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,517 people are worried about that's affecting our politics. 50 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,517 >> Yeah. This is what I've really come to this is what I've really come to 51 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,157 appreciate from growing up in the one place and now being in the other place, 52 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,877 which is if you if you're if you're in the if you're in the center of the 53 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,197 country, you're just like, "Wow, these people really hate me. They really hate 54 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,837 my kids." Like they're really out to get me. Um and and like that that that's 55 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:56,077 just such a toxic that's just such a toxic dynamic like that that's a very 56 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,597 very bad thing for that to continue. 57 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,237 >> So I guess to finish on a more positive note, we have all these challenges 58 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,757 you've outlined. No, it's fair. I think in order to be optimistic, you first 59 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,317 have to say what are the challenges and diagnose it and then say what are the 60 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:07,757 ways. >> Well, here's here's an optimistic thing 61 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,797 which is we have talent in this country that is like we have we have so many 62 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,517 smart people in this country who are not being properly trained, properly 63 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,717 educated and properly employed. Like we really genuinely do we have tons of 64 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,517 smart kids running around who have all kinds of potential who have been 65 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,917 completely cut out of opportunity for the last 50 years. 66 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,877 >> So so we're going to have this wave of productivity growth. It's going to be in 67 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,197 the real world with robotics. We're going to start to build hopefully if you 68 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,477 get the policies right and it's going to lift all these people up. What are the 69 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,437 bottlenecks or things in the way of doing that? There's we have the amazing 70 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,237 secretary of energy here. Energy is obviously a really key thing to get 71 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,597 right. Uh there's obviously the chips, there's the critical minerals you 72 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,437 mentioned. Regulatory stuff is insane in this country. It needs to be fixed like 73 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,997 like what are the biggest ones you're focused on and how are we going to get 74 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,037 those to a place we need that ends up with the optimistic outcome? 75 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,717 >> So I say yes, those. [laughter] So I mean the good news on this is a lot 76 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,877 of it's obvious, right? The minute you look at it, you're just like, well 77 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,357 obviously we have to do these things. If you talk to anybody built, you know, 78 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,437 running businesses in any of these sectors, they'll they'll tell you right 79 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,557 off the right off the bat the thing the things the things that need to happen. 80 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,757 Um, and so I, you know, I think I think, you know, and, you know, the current 81 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,637 administration, I think, is pretty devoted to a lot of this. Um, you know, 82 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,037 look, the other, I would just say the other positive thing that's happening, 83 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,957 um, there's this new book out called Abundance, um, from uh, from Ezra Klein, 84 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,237 who I would say I disagree with on approximately zero of everything. Um, 85 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:19,917 but I think this book is really good. 86 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,957 Um, and I think he and his co-author, you know, outline, you know, they don't 87 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,197 necessarily have the policy prescriptions I would outline, but they, 88 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:29,037 you know, they make this point of like, you know, liberals used to believe in 89 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,477 building things, right? Well, I mean, if you go all the way back, like communists 90 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,597 really believed in building things, right? Like all like Soviet iconography 91 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,797 100 years ago was all like rockets and skyscrapers and cars and motion and 92 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,077 energy and it was all amazing and they built all these huge things. And then, 93 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,277 you know, liberals, you know, up through, I don't know, up through the up 94 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,637 until basically the 1970s, you know, really believed in really believed in 95 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,517 building things. they really believed in building the future. Um, and so Ezra and 96 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,317 and Derek Thompson are trying to recapture that. And there and there's a 97 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,877 bunch of, by the way, there's a bunch of of of leaders of that party in 98 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,837 Washington that are now, you know, pushing that quite hard. Um, and so may 99 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:02,797 maybe, you know, although it seems hard to believe these days, but, you know, 100 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,917 there may be an opportunity for some actual bipartisanship here. 101 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,677 >> And again, it makes look it just makes sense. If the country is growing faster, 102 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,797 it's going to be a happier health. It's going to be a happier it's going to be a 103 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,557 fundamentally happier place because people whoever whichever side of the 104 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,957 political spectrum you're on, there's going to be 105 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,437 Reagan, Mr. Reagan, there's going to be a sense of optimism, right? There's 106 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,597 going to be a sense of morning in America. There's gonna be a sense of 107 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,597 opportunity. There's going to be the sense that your kids are going to live 108 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,397 better lives than you do. Um, and and I don't think that's a particularly 109 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,357 partisan view at the end of the day. And I think there may be an opportunity to 110 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:32,477 maybe bridge the divide a bit. 111 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,677 >> And I want to dig a little tiny bit deeper as we end into what that means 112 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,637 because for me, for example, I think both of us see how healthcare doesn't 113 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,477 need to take up 20% of our GDP, right? 114 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,877 It's very obvious that AI can make these things half a third the cost for better 115 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,117 outcomes. And yet every one of our states in this country has very powerful 116 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,957 provider and payer lobbies and has very powerful cartels that block competition. 117 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,917 And so if we want to go build something with AI, we're not allowed to right now. 118 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,517 Like do you see the left and the right tech working together to fight these 119 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,997 special interests to actually fix the regulatory state? Because it's not like 120 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,237 the administration could just do it, right? We have it's going to take a lot 121 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,077 of effort. Like what does that coalition look like of the of the of the good guys 122 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,597 against this kind of broken regulatory cartel in all these industries? Is that 123 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,437 is that something we're going to all have to fight? 124 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,157 >> Yeah. So the the way I think about this is there's basically right three 125 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,077 components to the American dream, right? 126 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,717 There's house, you know, have a have a house, have a a house for your kids 127 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,957 where and you know, kind of by definition, this goes back to the 128 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,077 geographic lens. The house needs to be like near a place where there's like 129 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,877 great job opportunities, right? So it can't be a house in the middle of 130 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,917 nowhere. It has to be a house where there's going to be great jobs um and 131 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,277 you know, a safe environment and so forth. Um number one. Number two is is 132 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,997 is healthare. You need, you know, great healthcare for you and your family. And 133 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,677 then three is education. You want to send your kids kids to good schools. Um 134 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,357 if you disagregate sectors of the economy over the last 25 years, what you 135 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,877 find is basically everything that technology touches basically collapses 136 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,837 in price. Um and so television sets and you know computer games and you know 137 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,877 everything you know anything with electronics in it basically the the 138 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,917 prices productivity growth in those sectors has advanced very fast. Product 139 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,717 prices prices have have uh have collapsed. Everything is is much 140 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,237 cheaper. Um but if you chart uh housing, 141 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,157 education and healthcare um the prices of those things are skyrocketing, right? 142 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,597 And and we all we all you we all see this is just the price of housing is 143 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,477 exploding, the price of education is exploding and the price of healthcare I 144 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,757 mean healthcare is 20% of the economy on its way to 50%. Um and uh and so the the 145 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,277 prices are exploding and and and so it's like okay what what makes healthcare 146 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,077 what what makes those three components the American dream have these exploding 147 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,157 prices. It's basically it's two things. 148 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,517 Number one is uh and these are interrelated but number one is 149 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,957 technology is not really touching them very much. that and you could say the 150 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,317 tech industry has done a bad job at addressing housing and healthcare and 151 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,877 education or or you could say that you know those industries have been 152 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,917 resistant to it. Uh but technology hasn't really touched them that much 153 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,117 which means that they productivity growth hasn't happened in them. Um and 154 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,077 then the other thing is they're heavily regulated. Um they're they're heavily 155 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,477 dominated by the government. they're heavily regulated and then in all three 156 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,717 of those sectors uh the government both 157 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,357 restricts supply right and so zoning 158 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,757 laws and university certifications and so forth right mean that it's very hard 159 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,597 to actually build new of of those three things um and then the government 160 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,317 responds to the political pressure caused by the rising prices by 161 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,157 subsidizing demand and of course if you subsidize demand and a fix supply you 162 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,197 get skyrocketing prices right and so every time there's a housing cris you 163 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,997 know it's perpetual housing crisis in California the answer always is 164 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,037 subsidies for home buyers which always has the effect of driving prices up 165 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,757 further and making the problem worse, right? Um and so so so like that that 166 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,517 that drives, you know, those are the microeconomics of of what's happening. 167 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,197 Um I don't think there's easy answers on this. I but I think the acknowledgement 168 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:36,717 that this is in fact what's happening. 169 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,837 And then I think the the pe to decide 170 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,677 that they do not want to live this way. 171 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,437 I I I think like or the marginal American voter needs to decide. It's 172 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,397 just look, it's just not acceptable that if I can't spend $3 million, I can't 173 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,957 have a house that's in a good neighborhood with a good job attached to 174 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,157 it. And it's just not acceptable uh that a four-year college degree is going to 175 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,117 cost a million dollars, which is which is what it's on its way to doing. And 176 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,917 it's just not acceptable that like this healthcare, you know, monster is running 177 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,237 out of control. Um and and so, you know, it it you in many ways like this is like 178 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,717 the fundamental, you know, policy political question of our time. You 179 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,917 know, that kind of kind of needs to be dealt with. Again, these issues become 180 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,677 much easier to deal with in a high growth environment, right? Um and in in 181 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,197 an environment with very rapid technological development. Um let me 182 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,277 give you the good news story on on healthcare. Everybody talks about 183 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,877 healthcare. can't break these curves. 184 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,597 There's one area of healthcare that is incredibly sophisticated, 185 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:26,797 technologically advanced, and the price curve looks like Moore's law. The price 186 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,837 curve looks like video games. The price curve is just a straight line down, and 187 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,837 the quality of the service has gone way up. And and that's lasic eye surgery, 188 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,317 right? And and the reason it's and the reason that's the case is because it's 189 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,197 it's outside the system. It's a discretionary purchase paid for by the 190 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,717 consumer. Um, you know, and the the lasic eye studios are in like strip 191 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,837 malls. Um, and they've got like, you know, three people and like a super 192 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,757 advanced, you know, incredibly advanced like laser eye machine. um and you go in 193 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,797 there and you get zapped and you have perfect eyesight and it every year it 194 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,157 gets better and cheaper. Um and so that's like an example of what happens 195 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,037 if you're able to touch these sectors with technology and if you're able to 196 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,237 get them out from under all all the regulatory and government overhang and 197 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,677 so that that potential exists I think throughout the system but but 198 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,117 fundamentally we have to decide we want it and and fundamentally the population 199 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,557 the country has to decide that it wants it. 200 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,357 >> Well I'm optimistic more of the leaders in the tech and government sector are 201 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,077 going to be on our side and push through and fix these regulations and the 202 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:17,757 technology is going to get us there. 203 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:18,797 Thank you, Mark, for being here. 204 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,080 Appreciate it. >> Good. Thank you, everybody.