1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,317 Today's going to be a fun one. We're going to dive into all things new media. 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,517 What is new media? What the new media team is doing here at A16Z, what we're 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,277 focused on, where we're going in 2026. 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,960 Really stoked to be making this happen. 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,997 Ben had this quote which I think summarizes some of the some of the one 6 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:21,837 of the main principles of of new media. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,877 I just want to, you know, read a small small part of it and then have you 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,317 elaborate. Uh old media is defense-oriented and in new media 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,397 offense is always better than defense. 10 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:36,197 We've spent many years fretting about our results being leaked. Old media 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,677 tries to please every audience. Old media is terrified of upsetting people 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,397 and new media only cares about being interesting. When in doubt, flood the 13 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:50,077 zone. >> Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like something I said. 14 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:53,877 >> W- Why don't you share some of the tenets behind that idea and 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:55,517 how you came to it? 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,157 >> Yeah, so I actually it's interesting um 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,837 it it's a really weird adjustment going from 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,117 you know, I mean, I spent my whole career in old media or dealing with old 19 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,317 media and now we're in new media. 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,317 You know, kind of in the history of the firm we've been 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,197 the the one thing that we really really 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,237 really really defended against was 23 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:20,717 basically leaked results. And uh 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,437 the reason and it goes back to 25 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,637 in the pretty early days of the firm, uh 26 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,957 the New York Times 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,237 got a leak of our results. And they they 28 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:36,637 were very I mean, we were like a young firm, so most of the funds were like a 29 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,077 year old. Um and you know, venture capital firms 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,797 don't have high returns in the first year cuz like nothing happens in the 31 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,477 first year. It's not like a stock market 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,197 type thing. And so, you know, that 33 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,877 they missed or maybe it's the Wall Street Journal. I mean, one of the two, 34 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,397 but they misinterpreted the results. Um you know, so they kind of said, "Well, 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,477 the early funds were good cuz those had enough years to get kind of returns in 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,757 them, but like fund three was terrible 37 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,557 and like da da da da da and so forth." 38 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,477 And there was no, um, you know, because 39 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,997 old media was still powerful, it was very hard to combat it. 40 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,797 You know, we put out statements and this and that and the other and blog posts 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,517 but explaining like why they were wrong, um, but it didn't land and it was such a 42 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,197 like a inside the firm it was such a big crisis 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,957 that actually I'm pretty sure Balaji quit because he 44 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,597 thought we were dead cuz the New York Times had just like ruined the whole 45 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,677 firm with that uh article. Um, so it was 46 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,477 like that kind of existential a threat. 47 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,717 And so, you know, we were very oriented 48 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,637 around like, "Okay, don't let anything out that could be misinterpreted or this 49 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,597 or that cuz you can never correct it. It goes out there and you're never going to 50 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,397 kind of come back from it." >> And and and say more about the the flood 51 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,037 the zone concept in terms of of of why 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,437 it works or or or you know, why and and why it's so different than uh than you 53 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,757 know, what happened in the past. 54 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,917 >> Yeah, well, so in the past the 55 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,557 traditionally 56 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:14,757 it didn't count if it wasn't in the Wall 57 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,477 Street Journal or the New York Times or 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,037 like the Economist or CNN or like there were 59 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,437 maybe eight channels that could say 60 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:29,197 something and then whatever they said was permanent and that like once it was 61 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,677 out there, it was very hard to deal with. And it would be top of Google 62 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,797 results like the whole thing. Um, 63 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,677 but now you know, like we can go on, Mark and I, 64 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,917 if it we really had a problem could go on 30 podcasts, uh, all of which get a 65 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,637 much bigger audience than any of the 66 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,597 publications I talked about. Um, and 67 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,717 just basically And we wouldn't have to talk about that. 68 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,637 We could go talk about something else more interesting. 69 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,437 Um, and erase that from everybody's memory very quickly. So, it's just you 70 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,397 know, without commenting on what's a better world like the laws of physics 71 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,957 are completely different in this world 72 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,917 than the other world. And I I think to 73 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,117 be effective uh, as a organization in 74 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:16,757 marketing and media 75 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:20,317 you have to like you you have to embrace 76 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,437 the new world because you can't be half 77 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,517 and half. The because the whole motion of the old 78 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,997 world will kill you in the new world. 79 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,597 And and vice versa. And so, you have to kind 80 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,797 of commit to we're going to really care about what goes down through the old 81 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,277 channels or we're not going to give a Um, sorry to use language and we're just 82 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,397 going to you know, say interesting things and flood the zone. And uh, we're 83 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,877 doing the latter by the way. >> There's a whole uh, 84 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,757 history to this. But but basically like the the the whole idea that there's like a 85 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,877 quote unquote corporate brand. Like the whole idea that there's like a corporate 86 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,677 like trademark. And then the whole idea that there you like as a business you 87 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,237 basically load everything into that into that into that thing. And that that 88 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,157 thing you know, whether it's General Electric or International Business 89 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,277 Machines or whatever. The you know, the idea that that thing is somehow 90 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,517 abstracted away from the people involved. Um, and then that the people 91 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,917 involved, you know, their main job is to try to kind of buff that thing. Which 92 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,397 kind of you know, led to this you know, you know, 93 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,997 when we look at it is like it led to this like maybe your kind of reign of 94 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,877 like everything being synthetic and plastic and boring, right? Where like 95 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,877 the you know, we we Ben and I have had this experience for many many decades at 96 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,517 this point. Um, it's just like you know, the the the job of a corporate CEO for a 97 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,437 very long time was to get up on stage and just say absolutely nothing 98 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,197 in any sort of public public event. Um, I I actually was on a board of the CEO 99 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:41,117 who very firmly uh, believed this. Um, and uh, he literally would come off 100 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,357 stage having having very deliberately said absolutely nothing and would have 101 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,637 been thrilled. Um, because like he he had made no news of like mission mission 102 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,277 accomplished, right? And anyway, so Eric, to your question, like basically I 103 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,037 think the retrospective view on this what happened was basically in the past 104 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,637 your communication channels were just like super narrow, right? And so and so 105 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,877 how could you get a message through to the mass market or to your audience your 106 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,957 to your customer base? Um, you could only do it by kind of sending 107 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,797 in a message that was encoded into as few bits as possible, right? Cuz that 108 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,317 was kind of your only shot because it was always limited by you know, TV 109 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,357 broadcast airtime or it was limited by newspaper column inches or whatever. And 110 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,197 so you just you had to kind of crystallize everything down to this kind 111 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:21,997 of min minimal and sort of least offensive, you know, kind of possible 112 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,357 position. But but it's always been a natural 113 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,837 because as human beings like that it does like it it never felt right. Like, 114 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,237 you know, it always felt like weird cuz it's like this, you know, corporation is 115 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,557 like this weird other kind of alien thing. 116 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,117 You know, it it always felt weird and uncomfortable and we and we just kind of 117 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,997 got used to it and it just, you know, it turns out as 118 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,597 as as our friend Mitt Romney famously 119 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,957 said, corporations are people, too. Um, 120 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,757 and right? And like poor Mitt. 121 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:48,717 Yeah, he was using it in a different context. Uh, he he was not he was not 122 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,437 calling to change in PR, but um but uh 123 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,037 you know, for our purposes, um you know, like this is 124 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,437 it's all about people. Like it's all about the decisions that people make. 125 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,757 Like when when you know, when a when a big company or a government agency or a 126 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:05,797 nonprofit or a venture firm or a startup is like making decisions and acting in 127 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,317 the world, that's people. Like that you know, there's there there there are you 128 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,357 know, there there are some set of people um who are sitting around making that 129 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,837 decision. And I and I just think like and and then it's kind of you know, it's 130 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,317 kind of this almost I don't know, like shock therapy or something where it's 131 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,117 just like if the people who are actually making 132 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,717 the calls actually like show up and talk on their own behalf and explain 133 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,317 themselves and actually say what they think it like blows everybody's minds, 134 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,557 right? It's just it's just, you know, it's it's the you know, it's the 135 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,597 response people have to, you know, Elon and the response people have to, you 136 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,677 know, certain other, you know, people who are now, you know, kind of very 137 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,917 notable in the environment who are running large large things who are very 138 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,917 public and vocal. It's just kind of this thing of like and it's just it's almost 139 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,117 like this thing where it's like, well, you know, they can't say that. And it's 140 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,077 like, well, wait a minute. Number one, they can say that, like, you know, 141 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,477 they're allowed to. They're like an adult in the United States of America. 142 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,557 Like, they're allowed to say, you know, whatever they want. Number one. Number 143 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,437 two, like, how about they actually tell us what they think? Like, how about we hear 144 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,677 directly from them so that we can actually understand what they're 145 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,637 thinking and who they are, you know, and how they're processing reality and what 146 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,317 the what their assumptions are. Um and and of course the the technological cost 147 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,797 for this is just that, you know, that that narrow media funnel just got like 148 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,597 completely blown to smithereens, right? 149 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,997 In large part as a consequence of all the work that, you know, that we that, 150 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,877 you know, all of us have done uh on this call over the last 30 years. And so, 151 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,197 like, it it's just, you know, and you could kind of maybe say, you know, love 152 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,077 it or hate it, like, the the the the the days of kind of this narrow channel 153 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,317 narrowcasting and then what I would argue is just this like inherently 154 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,157 deceptive practice um of abstracting things away from people. I you know, 155 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:26,837 that that world is just clearly fading. 156 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,237 Um and in the new world we're we're just going to hear direct from people. And I, 157 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,117 you know, and look, I'm not a utopian and it's not going to 158 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,797 be like 100% better, but I I think there's no question it's a big net improvement. 159 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,117 >> Yeah, and by the way, you know, the other um 160 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,557 thing that's really interesting in retrospect is 161 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,717 the things that people got in trouble for, uh 162 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:52,037 canceled for, fired for, etc. in the past that they said in the press 163 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,797 were all just misinterpretations. 164 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,517 So, they, you know, was somebody saying something and because it was so narrow 165 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,357 and because you could never erase it and because you could never come back and 166 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,877 defend it because the audience would be, you know, a thousandth of the size on 167 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,157 the defense. You know, people just it was all it 168 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,597 wasn't I said what I thought and people thought I was a horrible person. It was 169 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:21,077 I said something, it got misinterpreted, and people thought I was a horrible 170 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,997 person. So, now in this world where like, you know, 171 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,557 people say much more like aggressive 172 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,637 things, I would just say in terms of, 173 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,237 you know, not being mainstream thinking, 174 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:37,117 but have room to explain it. Um they that that rarely happens anymore. So, 175 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,677 like, I mean, everything from like Howard Dean to 176 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,637 you know, you name it. Like, in today's world, that that would 177 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,557 be nothing. Um, but in that world, because there was no 178 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,557 chance to say, "Well, like, this is what happened." Um, 179 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,717 you know, like, there there were just thousands of 180 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,557 times when people have gotten to incredible trouble for things that they 181 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,477 said that were misinterpreted uh that they could not correct. 182 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:09,437 >> Yeah. And and Eric, you know, Ben Ben gave me good advice, you know, actually 183 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,077 before you came on board, which I I'm trying my best to stick to, although I 184 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,277 will tell you it is a significant personal challenge. 185 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,557 >> Yeah. >> Um, again, was not eating an entire box 186 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,357 of Oreos and drinking an entire bottle of scotch every night, both of which I'm 187 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,077 also trying not to do. Um, so, cuz we live in a healthy world 188 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,837 now. So, um, uh less self-destructive world. So, um, 189 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,317 you know, Ben Ben Ben pointed out that like the see the what Ben just said 190 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,597 basically applies into the new world actually just as much as the old world 191 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,357 in in the sense of like when every time I've gotten myself in a like serious 192 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,837 trouble like in public over the last decade, it's because I tweeted something. 193 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,157 Um, and I mean, you know, everybody on here probably knows how much I love 194 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,757 Twitter and like it's great to be able to rip off the 100, you know, and I was 195 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,317 really good at like compressing something super controversial in 140 196 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,517 characters and then really letting it rip with 280 characters. But Ben pointed 197 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,797 out like, "Look, every time every time somebody gets mad at you, you know, 198 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,637 every just gets like completely ripped at you over over that, basically what's 199 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,917 happened is it's out of context." Um, and so what what Ben said is, "Look, 200 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,197 just say everything that you think, but say it on a podcast. Right? Say say it 201 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,277 in the context of an hour and a half discussion so that you can whatever it 202 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,277 is, you've surrounded it with the full explanation, or say it in the form of an 203 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,877 essay where you've like fully articulated your argument and and it's 204 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,117 fully in context." Um, and and just observationally, like, it in in not just 205 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,677 playing to myself, but just more broadly, it's actually interesting if 206 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,437 you watch this to this day, when when public figures get blown to smithereens, 207 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,557 it's almost always because of something that's basically too short. 208 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,117 Um, when people actually do the full long long-form explanation of what they 209 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,677 think, even if it's on a highly controver you know, even if it's imputed 210 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,917 to be highly controversial, whatever, if it's the full explanation, it is 211 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,197 actually harder to blow people up. And again and again, you could kind of say 212 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,077 it's actually really funny. You know, when I was a kid, like, you 213 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,397 know, the moral panic was around television, right? Kind of pre pre the 214 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,077 internet. And the moral panic in tele- a lot of moral panic in television always 215 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,637 was around the concept of sound bites, which is you only ever get to hear like 216 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,997 5 seconds of what anybody's thoughts are. Right? And somehow television is 217 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,397 now the gold standard, you know, for information transmission. The internet's 218 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,437 evil. Like somehow it all flipped. But anyway, the point being is like the 219 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,997 internet gives us the chance to not only express ourselves like in short form. 220 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,757 The internet specifically gives us the chance to express ourselves in long 221 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,597 form. Right? And fully explain things. 222 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,477 And that's that's just so different. 223 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:09,317 Like the the the the hour hour and a half two hour discussion with somebody 224 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,677 who's like deeply into something and is really involved in something. Like yeah, 225 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,717 I mean we all experience this as consumers. Like it's just so much better 226 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,397 than the than the 30-second bit that, you know, might have been on the NBC 227 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,397 Nightly News 30 years ago. 228 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,117 >> And by the way, you know, the long form 229 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,477 of almost anything that's 230 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:29,917 interesting, complex, a systems problem, 231 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,437 um which is most everything in politics and in technology, 232 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,717 you need the long form. There is no sound bite that gives you any 233 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:38,997 information. 234 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:44,757 Um and so you have to have uh a long conversation. So it is actually much 235 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:50,200 better. Or is it really? As far as thing 236 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:54,597 But there's always that thing with sugar, you know, using bones or whatever 237 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,357 to be whiter, that kind of thing. 238 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,277 >> I'm going to eat a I'm going to eat a gigantic package of 239 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,917 Oreos tonight. Deborah's on her. I really appreciate it. 240 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,877 >> The Oh yeah, it's We've also talked about, you know, media training in the 241 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,837 past. Used to be around sort of, you know, how to stay out of trouble, this 242 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,917 kind of thing. And that now you you know, if you're a CEO, you want to be, 243 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,837 you know, something uh you know, Jordi from TV personality's concept of a Joe 244 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,837 Rogan CEO. I mean someone interesting enough to go on Joe Rogan for three 245 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,197 hours, you know, someone like an Alex Karp, someone like a Palmer Lucky, 246 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,997 right? And um is in And the flip side of that is that 247 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,357 uh you know, if you're interesting, you know, if you're powerful, you're you're 248 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,837 it's because you're interesting. Uh cuz that's what that's what people That's 249 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,317 what people want to work for. It's you know, people want to be customers of. 250 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,237 It's people want to invest in. Um and if you're powerful and interesting, you're 251 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,877 going to be controversial. And and and that's something that you guys have also 252 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,157 helped me get more more more accustomed to is like, "Hey, 253 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:47,997 we we you know, this is the big leagues. 254 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,037 You know, and there are people like who are going to be mad at what we're doing. 255 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,837 And and that is that that's a In some ways, that's a good thing. That's That's 256 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,637 evidence of our of our power and and our interestingness." 257 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,597 >> Yeah, no, I think that's right. And I think it you know, it's hard th- th- 258 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:05,597 this is another kind of crossover between the old world and the new world 259 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:07,757 cuz if you're a corporate brand, 260 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,397 then you know, you try and keep all the 261 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,597 dust off the brand and and, you know, try and be uh something that nobody 262 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,677 hates. Uh I guess for lack of a better word. And 263 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,517 then, you know, I think in today's world, to be good at marketing, you've got to 264 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,477 be interesting. To be interesting If you're interesting and powerful, there 265 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,957 are going to be a lot of people who don't like you. 266 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,597 Um and that's like that's a good thing. 267 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,557 Um and I was very happy to see by the way the infrared piece cuz 268 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,437 we can get like a nice piece on like a subsection of the firm, but nobody's 269 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,317 ever going to write like a really nice thing about the law firm. Um 270 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,197 I think that you know, also uh it's a 271 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,797 This whole new world is much better for founder CEOs because to be a founder, 272 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,717 you have to have an original idea. And original ideas are interesting by 273 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,797 nature. I think that professional CEOs um 274 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,557 often get to that position through very 275 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,637 careful politicking, which uh kind of is 276 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,277 the opposite where you want to be uncontroversial. Like nobody can ding 277 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,757 you right as you get to them thing. And you know, Mark and I have uh been on, 278 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,797 you know, Mark much more than me, but been on large boards. Where on the large 279 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,197 boards, you know, when it comes to picking the professional CEO 280 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,917 they're all about what's not wrong with him. 281 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,717 Not what's right with him. Or what's right with her. And so, you get these 282 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,437 very vanilla characters who definitely 283 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,757 could not go on Joe Rogan. And that, you know, is all to our advantage cuz we 284 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,917 basically deal almost entirely with founder CEOs. 285 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,677 >> I want to uh transition to one more structural mechanic cuz it's a segue 286 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,877 into how we've built our team a little bit. And it's um this uh market system 287 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,437 of McLuhan quote, you know, if it's on TV, it's a TV show. 288 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,357 Um and just talk about how the different formats yield different different types 289 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,717 of content. Um Do you want to talk about it? 290 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,037 >> Okay. You you want you you want me to do it? You want me to do it? 291 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:05,597 >> Yeah, yeah. >> Okay. All right. Okay. This is the 292 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,317 thing. Okay. So, yeah, Marshall McLuhan was the great media theorist of the of 293 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,637 the TV era. And actually, his his work is actually held up really well. And 294 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,797 it's it's it's it's worth reading. Um but uh he he had the he had this this 295 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,117 thing that Eric just said. He said, "If if it's on TV, it's a television show." 296 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,877 Um In other words, like basically the the the you know, as he as he said, as 297 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,797 he said, "The medium is the message." Um basically, what he said is like, "Look, 298 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,037 like TV TV is a specific kind of technology. It's a specific kind of 299 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,797 media technology." Um and basically, like all of the questions around TV are 300 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,517 like, you know, is it a is you know, it's it's all basically just like the 301 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,357 only real parameter is length. Like, is it a 3-minute news segment? Is it a 302 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,957 20-minute sitcom? Is it a 40-minute drama? Like, there there there's very 303 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,917 little kind of variation like what you can do cuz it's just a linear you know, 304 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,157 it's just a straight you know, just you know, broadcast video. You know, 305 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,397 broadcast video. And so, he said, you know, basically, the medium in its first 306 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,957 you know, 10 or 20 years evolved you know, basically, the concept of what we 307 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,237 now know to be a television show, which is basically either a comedy or a drama 308 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,917 or or combination of the both. And it's basically a little story. And it's a 309 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,637 little story that plays out over 20 to 40 minutes. And it kind of has to be a 310 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,237 self-contained story cuz you don't know when people are going to watch it. And 311 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,237 you know, now they're doing you know, now they're doing you know, streaming. 312 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,117 They're doing serial stories. But you know, television shows properly 313 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,437 generally were you know, where everything was a one-off. You can watch 314 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,477 episodes out of order. And so, there's like there the there these very like 315 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,037 self-contained little basically, you know, plays, little stage plays 316 00:17:20,120 --> 00:17:22,437 broadcast on video and then there there there are these self-contained little 317 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,557 stories and then and then they need to kind of appeal to emotion cuz it's like 318 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,917 an emotional medium. Uh right, it's not like an information dense medium. It's 319 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,397 a, you know, it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a medium that literally put 320 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,797 somebody in your living room. Um and so the basically it's it's like these 321 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,197 little morality plays, right? Where there's and there's got to be like good 322 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,197 guys and bad guys and kind of a very simplistic story and there's like a few, 323 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,237 you know, a few mild plot twists and then everything kind of wraps up at the end. 324 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,877 And he And he said sort of the consequence to that is like everything 325 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,437 on television has to be a television show and that includes everything in the 326 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,677 real world that gets talked about on television has to be turned into a 327 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,677 television show. Right? And and and this is kind of, you know, the running joke 328 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,117 of like following, you know, I don't know whatever current events or politics 329 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,237 on TV right now, which is you you kind of a running joke, which is you know, on 330 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,277 on either party, which is just kind of like, "Oh, you know, that you know, you 331 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:05,757 know, oh, it's you know, it's time for the next season. 332 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,517 Oh, you know, this is the new, you know, main plot that's happening and then this 333 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,037 is the new secondary plot that's happening." And if you watch CNN every 334 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:12,997 night, you know, they're just kind of, you know, they're kind of just playing 335 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,877 with these stories you know, kind of over time the way that a the way that a 336 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,117 soap opera might or that a, you know, that a that a that a that a that a drama 337 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,637 might or occasionally, you know, how comedy might. And so so basically we 338 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,957 we've just like lived in a world where it just seems like everything's a TV 339 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,237 show. Um and it's and it's a world where like all the edges are sanded off and 340 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,077 everything is kind of very smooth and professional and everything is kind of 341 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,957 within this very narrow band of what can be put into these kind of little little 342 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,597 morality plays. Okay, so Marshall McLuhan unfortunately is long dead, but 343 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,037 I I assert that if he were alive today, he would say, "If it's if it's on the 344 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,517 internet, it's a viral internet post." 345 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,517 Right? So like what's the native medium of the internet? Like what's the thing 346 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,037 that what's the form of media on the internet that like rips and dominates? 347 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,117 And it's clearly the viral post, right? 348 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,557 It's it's the viral you know, tweet, it's the viral Tik Tok, it's the viral 349 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,037 Instagram, right? It's the it's the it's the viral Facebook post, it's the viral 350 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:02,997 Substack, it's the viral YouTube video. 351 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,997 Like it's very clearly the post and specifically it's the viral post. Like 352 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,237 it's it it's the one that really rips. 353 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,477 And so so basically, you're right, right. So my theory is, if it's on on internet, 354 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,037 everything is a viral post. And then you just ask yourself two questions, which 355 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:17,797 is like, okay, what's the characteristic of a viral post? And and like nine times 356 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,477 out of 10 it's something that like really gets people cranked up, right? 357 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,117 Like on whatever topic, right? It might be on whatever your favorite pop star 358 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,197 said yesterday or it might be on whatever, you know, a politician said or 359 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,637 it might be on whatever, you know, a business leader said or whatever, but 360 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,557 like it's something that like causes people to like flip out, right? You 361 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,957 know, you know, and maybe some people flip out positively, some people flip 362 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,637 out negatively. Something caused people to flip out. And then the other thing 363 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,157 with viral posts that's really interesting is you can actually observe 364 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,917 this in the data. They have this really rapid rise. Like they tend to if if 365 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,837 they're going to take off, they tend to take off within like 12 hours. And then 366 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,077 they spike like crazy as everybody retweets or reposts and you know, emails 367 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,477 it around and talks about it. And then there's basically this like half-life 368 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,637 fall off where like within 24 it's like 369 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,837 12 hours up and then it's like 20 24 hours down. And then 36 hours later it's 370 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,637 like gone from our collective memory. 371 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,077 And the reason is because another one has popped up and has taken off instead. 372 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,517 And if you kind of take a step back and kind of chart the media landscape that 373 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,557 we've all been living in for the last whatever, you know, for sure 5 years, 374 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,597 but you know, you could even say probably 10 years. 375 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,277 What what we've learned through is just literally just like thousands of cycles 376 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,837 of viral posts. Um okay, is you know, is this good or 377 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,357 bad or something in the middle? You can have a big debate about that. Um you 378 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,997 know, I would argue it's it's its own form of emotionality, right? It's it's 379 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,437 basically things that spike the cortisol and so that, you know, it's sort of 380 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,357 things that are controversial. And so it leans into that. But you know, the other 381 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,837 side is it's things that are interesting, right? And then the other 382 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,877 part is, you know, the the people get a vote of what goes viral, right? It's not 383 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,757 just up to a news producer what what shows up on TV. So there there there's 384 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,437 that aspect to it. Um another aspect to it, by the way, is that stories come and 385 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,917 go much more quickly now, right? And so there will be some thing that pops and 386 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,037 it's like the world's biggest crisis in whatever sector it's talking about and 387 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,997 it's just like everybody in the world has an opinion. This is where I I was 388 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,837 using a while back the the the meme of the current thing. Like it's the current 389 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,237 thing. Everybody has to have an opinion on the current thing. It's the most 390 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,557 important thing in the world. And then 24 hours later it's like it never 391 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,237 happened because something else, right, has become the current thing. And then 392 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,237 that leads to, you know, the new the new version of the old time on a strategy of 393 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,317 getting through media crisis, which is like just like basically 394 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,197 make sure something else, you know, becomes the new viral post. 395 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,477 You know, gets get something else elevated into that thing. So there you 396 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,317 know, there's there's there's there's this way to kind of kind of deal with 397 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,397 these things. But But anyway, I just think like as long as the internet is 398 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,397 the medium of choice, we're going to live in a world in which this is what it 399 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,557 you know, this is the cycle now. It's like a 24-36 hour cycle. By the way, the 400 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,437 traditional media in the former newspapers and television, like at least 401 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,517 the way I read them, is they're basically covering whatever was the 402 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,957 viral post like yesterday or a week ago. 403 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,557 Right? And so right and so they're being driven by the internet viral post, which 404 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,557 is which is you know, which is why I think that you know, that the internet 405 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,277 viral post is is the higher order thing. 406 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:52,357 And and I also think like that that's not going to change. Like they 407 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,797 the whole long thing I could do on that, but like they literally if you're a 408 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,557 television if you're a television producer or if you're a news editor or 409 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,717 whatever, like you you can't possibly move your organization fast enough to 410 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,517 stay ahead of these cycles. And so what you end up doing is you end up chasing 411 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,197 them. And and that's basically the role of mainstream media for the rest of our 412 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,117 life is just going to be to follow the internet viral post. 413 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,757 >> Yeah, I never saw a funny joke on the Daily Show years ago where they were 414 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,237 talking to the newspaper guy and he said, "Why do you call it news? You 415 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,797 should call it olds." >> That's good. 416 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,157 Um >> He It was he was interviewing at the time the managing editor of the New York 417 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,077 Times. And he was in his office. And the New York Times, you know, was expecting 418 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,077 to get this glowing coverage on the Daily Show. And whoever it was shows up 419 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,797 in the office and says says what Benja said. And the guy and the editor is just 420 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,917 like completely confused. Like he clearly has no idea what the Daily Show 421 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,077 guy is talking about. And and he's like, "Well, like what do you mean?" And he's 422 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,397 like he points to there's like a pile of literally physical newspapers on the 423 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,757 guy's desk. And he says like, "Look, it's it's all old news." And he says 424 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,117 like, "No, no, it's today's paper." And he's like, "No, no, it's yesterday's 425 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,877 paper. Like I already know everything that's in that." Like you know, and so 426 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,517 yeah, and and like it's just basically like again, what do they have they're 427 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,997 very proud of this. They have their editorial process, they have their 428 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,477 publication process. Like they they multi-layer you know, bureaucratic 429 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,997 mechanism for you know, all all the news that's fit to print. Like, you know, 430 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,397 it's at least a 24-hour cycle to figure that out. And I mean, and you know, 24 431 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,517 hours later the internet has already moved on from whatever the last thing 432 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,477 was. And so, it's just it's it's a it's a it's another example of the dog 433 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,717 chasing the car, except now they have to chase it like every single day, which 434 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,637 might be why they're so upset all the time. 435 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,917 >> Yeah, they are pissed. >> You know, we really made sure to hire 436 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,157 people who really understand the platform, not just how the platform 437 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,397 works technically, but also the the vibe and the taste and the and the spirit of 438 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,037 of of the platform. And and we've gone all in to start um on on X because that 439 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,157 those are just where the most interesting conversations are happening 440 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,477 and where where people are the most plugged in. 441 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,477 >> And and and the way I think of it first >> Almost of tech world is on X, you know, 442 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,157 like it or not. Like our world lives on 443 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,600 X um just because that's also where all the 444 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,437 both the kind of AI researchers and the 445 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,437 AI influencers and the crypto influence 446 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,597 and like like everybody in our world lives there uh 447 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,077 you know, at least in part. So, we can't avoid it even if we didn't like 448 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:09,277 it. But we love it. >> Were you about to say something, Mark? 449 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,597 >> Oh, yeah. No, I was just going to say yeah, I know like what Ben said is yeah, 450 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,997 so like this is a I posted a link to a book called The True Believer that kind 451 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,837 of talk talks about this is, you know, the the old characterization is elites 452 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,997 and masses, which is a little bit 20th century, but yeah, like the the like 453 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,077 people who are spending 24 hours a day trying to understand, you know, 454 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,757 basically in these domains like AI or you know, politics or whatever, like 455 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,717 they they're on X. Like that and that and that's the that that that's not the 456 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,197 mass market. Like that's not most of humanity, but like that's most of the 457 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,037 people who are like basically in the what you might I don't know what you 458 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,517 want to call like knowledge synthesis business or whatever where they're 459 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,037 trying to like understand and formulate policies on things and and so forth. Um 460 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,237 obvious obviously it's also true that TikTok and Instagram, you know, have 461 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,797 just like much more reach. Like they're you know, they're just much bigger um 462 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,117 you know, they they reach the mass kind of global audience 463 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,637 um more. And so, they you know, they certainly they certainly play a role. 464 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,557 But if if you're on the leading edge of a field like I, you know, it's it's very 465 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,237 rare that the whatever is kind of the lead, you know, kind of the edge of that 466 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,197 process of kind of idea formation, propagation, people, you know, in 467 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,597 positions of of authority kind of figuring out what they think. It's 468 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,317 That's almost all entirely on us. 469 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,197 >> By the way, this is another huge 470 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,877 difference between old media and new media. So, if you come from old media 471 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,877 world, there's just reach. >> Yeah. 472 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,357 >> Right. Like the targets, 473 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,237 you know, if you were going for a target audience, um there was no real easy way 474 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,397 to do it on I mean, you know, like maybe like if you were 475 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,037 sports, you'd be in Sports Illustrated whatever, but like there wasn't really a 476 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,917 way to do it. Um but now 477 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,517 with podcasts and and blogs and X and so 478 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,797 forth, you can go to an exact audience. 479 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,157 You can really get down to an extremely 480 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,117 narrow target in new media world. And, 481 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,437 you know, for us that's great cuz the audience our audience is founders, 482 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,797 um not the world, uh 483 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,677 and so, you know, having a way to talk 484 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,397 to 90% of founders as opposed to 4% of 485 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,117 the world is just a much better thing for us. 486 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,117 >> Yeah. The the two two more structural things 487 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,357 that Mark I want you to explain and then I want to you present some some some 488 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,117 slides, you know, give some detail about what we're doing 489 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,197 that that that relate to what I'm about to say. One is I want you to explain the 490 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,677 the Boyd um loop and and why, you know, that that 491 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,557 makes Twitter and and social media so much more powerful in terms of, you 492 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,717 know, forming consensus. Um and then the other is the difference between written 493 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,357 and oral culture and and and what's prioritized um in you know, as we 494 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,197 transition to oral. >> Yeah. Okay, so these are both long 495 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,397 topics and so I'll try to do the the CliffNotes version. Um yeah, so um 496 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,877 I'll I'll I'll link to the book on this, but in in in in military theory there 497 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,157 there's this concept called maneuver warfare, which basically just says like 498 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,357 speed speed wins. Like speed speed wins as compared to map map mass winning. Uh 499 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,917 speed wins. And so, if if you if you believe that, then there's basically 500 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,517 this frame there's this framework called called the OODA loop, uh OODA loop, uh 501 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,597 which originally was developed for uh fighter pilots and then later for for 502 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,477 broader military strategy. Um and the OODA loop what what OODA 503 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,677 stands for is an acronym um it stands for observe, orient, decide, act. Um and 504 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,117 so it's basically the decision-making cycle, right? And so and observe is like 505 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,237 view the outside world, orient is like figure out where you are in respect to 506 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,877 the outside world. Um decide, of course, decide what to do, act uh 507 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,077 act and and basically what this guy Boyd who came up with this idea said was like 508 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,477 any military opera- any fighter pilot, any military operation, any, you know, 509 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,597 basketball player, any um you know, 510 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,637 company, any government um um basically 511 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,437 goes through a a decision-making cycle that's like that in order to make 512 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,077 decisions. We just talked about the New York Times has their own OODA loop. It's 513 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,317 like 24 hours to go through their process. Um uh right? And so um and so 514 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,317 um basically what he said is like if if speed is the thing that matters, then 515 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,517 the person who gets through that cycle the fastest is the one who's going to 516 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,317 win. But he said, "There's a second-order thing that happens." So one 517 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,477 is just like is your OODA loop faster than the than the other guys? So so 518 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,877 that's one question. But he said the other thing that can happen is if if you 519 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,637 if you can have a sustainably faster OODA loop processing cycle than the next 520 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,557 guy, um then if you think about what happens like let's say it takes, you 521 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,357 know, you whatever, you know, an hour to figure something out, it takes the other 522 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,677 guy 2 hours to figure something out. Uh think about what happens is like okay, 523 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,317 you start out on even playing field. Um 524 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,877 you both start your your your your decision-making cycles. Um you operate 525 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,797 you you make your decision within an hour. The other guy is still let's say 526 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,677 is inside his own OODA loop when you make your decision, right? And so you 527 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,837 make your decision, you act within an hour. He's only halfway through his 528 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,477 process. He now has to start his process over, right? Cuz cuz you've changed the 529 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,197 landscape, you've changed the parameters of what's going on. So he now has to go 530 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,637 back and re-observe and reorient and start over, right? And then and then of 531 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,677 course project forward. It's like okay, then you decide again within an hour and 532 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,477 then by the time he gets And again, he gets halfway through his process, he 533 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,157 gets interrupted. Um he has to go back. 534 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,997 And so what he says is if you if you can be sustainably faster at running your 535 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,597 decision loop, you can get inside the other guy's loop in a in a systematic 536 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,397 and perpetual way and and basically the result of that is psychological breakdown. 537 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,317 Uh basically you you destroy the psychology of the side because they just 538 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,077 simply they they just can no longer operate or function at all. They just 539 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,317 like basically go into complete panic. 540 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,037 Nothing seems to make sense. They can never get oriented. They can never make 541 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,277 decisions. They can never They become completely defensive, completely 542 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,997 responsive. You completely dominate, you know, basically the playing field. Um 543 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,717 and he you know, he was he was a famous fighter pilot. He was a 544 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,397 famous fighter pilot called 15-second Boyd because he his claim was which was 545 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,837 true is he could beat any other fighter pilot in a dogfight within 15 seconds 546 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,277 using this method. And so it's basically this this this premium on speed and 547 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,157 quality of execution such that you are actually causing the other side to have a 548 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,517 have a psychological break. Um by the way, like again, going back to 549 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,037 the like I think this is also a big explanation for what's happened to 550 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,037 traditional media. The The fact that the internet moves events so much faster and 551 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,157 the sort of internet collective crowd decides what's important so much faster 552 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,877 causes all the people who were television producers or news editors who 553 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,997 thought that they were in charge of the narrative to just basically have a 554 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,757 psychological breakdown. Like how how how can you even function when the 555 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,157 internet is just basically cycling much faster than you could. And I think this 556 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,397 by the way, the same is true of companies. You know, this is what Elon 557 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,757 does, you know, to his competitors like in the defense, you know, in the 558 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,397 aerospace industry. This is what Anduril's now doing in companies in the 559 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,357 defense industry. You know, this quite frankly is what we 560 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,277 try to do, you know, to our competitors in the venture industry. 561 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,237 Um so yeah, so that now to do that you have to be willing to commit to being 562 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,997 fast, right? Um and so you you can't you can't have long bureaucratic processes. 563 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,317 You can't have, you know, a you know, a risk-averse posture. You can't, you 564 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,197 know, stress, you know, you you need enough time to make the decision properly. 565 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,317 Um you know, but you you can't you can't run the fully deliberate, um you know, 566 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,877 strategy that a lot of companies used to have in the past where it was days to 567 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,077 weeks to months to figure out, you know, what they were going to say about 568 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,597 something. Um by the way, in in politics they adapted to this probably 30 years 569 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,237 ago uh with the concept of the war room. 570 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,077 Um and there's a famous documentary in the Clinton campaign in I think in '88 571 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,117 uh or the called the war room where they they show this and now now they call it 572 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,237 rapid response and if you if you if you go to basically any any political 573 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,357 operation on the internet right now, um, you know, they'll have an X account 574 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,917 that's literally they call it like rapid response. So it's like the actually 575 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,517 Department of War has one just as example. Department of War rapid 576 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,157 response and it's literally like they're responding in real time to stuff that's 577 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,677 happening cuz they want to stay inside, um, you know, everybody else's Udal Loop. 578 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,837 Um, yeah, okay. So there's that and then yeah, the the the oral versus written 579 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,717 thing is it's it it would probably take an hour to kind of go through the whole 580 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,957 thing, but yeah, the the longest short of it is there's basically 581 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,637 in sort of human culture there's kind of two ways to communicate. There's two 582 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,637 fundamental modes. There's oral communication, there's written 583 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,917 communication. You know, oral communication, you know, is the original 584 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,437 form and you can think about it literally as like people around a 585 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,157 campfire telling stories, singing songs, you know, reciting poetry. 586 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,317 Um, you can think about written communication would be, you know, kind 587 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,357 of famously the book, um, or the scientific journal article, right, or 588 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,677 the math equation, um, or the business plan, right? Um, you know, 589 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,597 you know, a a written artifact. Um, and then basically the characteristic of a a 590 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,797 reality or oral communication is it's it's sort of inherently emotion first, 591 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,637 um, right? Cuz it's it's, you know, literally, you know, live interactions 592 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,357 with another person. Um, the characteristic of written 593 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,797 communication is sort of abstraction, you know, and you know, hopefully logic, 594 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,597 the scientific method, you know, intellectual rigor, analytical rigor. 595 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,717 Um, it it it used to be the case that you could 596 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,637 kind of really divide these, you know, like in traditional mass media it used 597 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,037 to be the case you could say that like newspapers and magazines were written 598 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,237 and so they would be like more calmer and more dispassionate. You could say, 599 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,637 you know, television was oral, right? It was people literally people talking and 600 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,477 so it was going to be much more emotional and hot-headed. You know, 601 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,037 basically like, you know, that that that's all broken down cuz of everything 602 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,997 we've talked about. Um, but the modern version of that is like the internet. 603 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,997 Like, okay, is the internet an oral culture or written culture? And it turns 604 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,517 out the answer is the internet's both cuz the internet is everything, right? 605 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,677 It it supports every kind of media. 606 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,117 Um, and so a YouTube video, I will say for sure a short form Tik Tok or 607 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,077 Instagram reel for sure is oral culture. 608 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,117 Like it's it's something short and bursty and emotional and and and 609 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,197 interpersonal and it's experience. Um a long-form Substack post is for sure 610 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,157 written culture. Uh but then things get more complicated 611 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,957 because a short tweet, even though it's written, is actually an oral culture 612 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,437 thing, right? Because the fact that it's short means it has to be like this again 613 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,557 this sort of this burst of of of of of sort of say triggering emotionality uh 614 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,517 in order to go viral. So so actually tweets, I would say are oral culture 615 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,917 even though they look written. And then long-form podcasts are actually written 616 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,557 culture even though they look oral, right? Cuz if you're going to talk about 617 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,757 something for 3 hours, like that's necessarily something where you're kind 618 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,677 of getting into abstractions in depth, you know, beyond just kind of a flash 619 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,197 moment of emotion. Um and so the internet lets you kind of play with 620 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,277 these formats and and and the kind of impact that you want to have um in a way 621 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,117 that, you know, in in the past was kind of determined by exactly fixed which 622 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,677 fixed media you were in. Uh and and and look, we we all live this. Like if you 623 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,077 want to have the internet experience of like doomscrolling and getting really 624 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,117 pissed off at the world, like you go on TikTok and X and you can do that. If you 625 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,157 want to have like learn a lot of stuff, you can go on Substack and long-form 626 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,717 YouTube podcasts and you can live in that world and like you can like, you 627 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,237 know, raise your IQ a point a day like it you know, it's absolutely amazing. 628 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,237 And so there is a choose your own adventure aspect to it. Um and um and 629 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,197 then of course, you know, we you know, firms like ours you know, need to think 630 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,917 hard about how we communicate because of of the differences. 631 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,877 >> I I love that as a segue cuz it just emphasizes how different every platform 632 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,037 is and it's not, you know, a lot of people or companies will just, you know, 633 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,477 have one idea and then cross-post it, you know, across every platform, but it 634 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,117 doesn't fully appreciate um you know, what that platform is built for and what 635 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,037 that platform rewards. And so for every platform that we have, we have a, you 636 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,677 know, with Substack, podcast, Instagram, 637 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:15,957 you know, uh 638 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,637 X, YouTube, etc., we have expert running 639 00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:22,157 it who is obsessed with with that with 640 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:24,477 that medium. Uh you know, on Instagram 641 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,877 we're up 35% you know, month over month 642 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,437 right now. We have this guy Hero who's 643 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,677 uh who's 18 years old and has been, you 644 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,637 know, grew up on on Instagram and and knows it like the the back of his hand 645 00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:40,077 um and and and that really matters. That makes a difference. And and so with with 646 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,997 that as a segue, I want to do a share just a few slides that just show 647 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,757 um a little bit about what we've what we've 648 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,117 done so far. Second. So, 649 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,237 what we're you know, really trying to do 650 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,717 is is is king make our companies, right? 651 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,797 Is is is give them such a a superpower in terms of getting their message out, 652 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,077 in terms of reaching their customers, in terms of reaching their their talent. 653 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,757 You know, the superpower that companies like Anduril have to punch way above their 654 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,077 their weight class and and and other brands you know, wish that they they had 655 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,237 that level of of of resonance, that level of reach. We're we're we're you 656 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,357 know, trying to give them those superpowers and we do that by by 657 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,917 building our own channels, our own you 658 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,637 know, media empire across platforms. We do that by making 659 00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:32,277 sure that we know everybody else who's got those 660 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,637 My screen paused for some reason. Okay, screen share. 661 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:38,557 But everybody else who's got those powers of distribution and and having 662 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,477 great relationships with them. 663 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,717 Um And then also by just you know, making 664 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,597 sure that we have the expertise to be able to deploy 665 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,637 to our companies as well. You know, Lulu put this put this well, you know, that 666 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:53,637 people don't really invest enough in in 667 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:58,757 in people running these these platforms and you know, we've really 668 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,037 spent a lot of time recruiting the the right expert talent to to do it. So, I'm 669 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,757 I'm I'm stoked because now that we've had them build our platforms, we're 670 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,997 going to deploy them to to work on behalf of our companies. 671 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,117 And so, we're we're you know, Kaster from Applied Intuition, you know, 672 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,397 he's he's always been I was an angel in Kaster's world so known for a while and 673 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,517 he's always been complaining of like, "Hey, you know, why are we not valued 674 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,197 more? Or why do we not have more resonance? Why do people you know, why 675 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,637 why is everyone when about other companies not not our company given how 676 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:31,077 good we are. And I've I'm Is it Kasser, you know, you've never tweeted in your 677 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,477 life. How do you expect to have tremendous tremendous mind share? And he 678 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,077 he finally, you know, thanks to a lot of pushing that that we did, bit the 679 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,277 bullet. And his first tweet got like 4,000 likes. And you know, the first 680 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,917 product we have, I'll get to it in a second, was this launch as a service. Um 681 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,157 the second one is going to be this this founder go-direct motion. You know, 682 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,077 we're working with Kasser, we're working with Garrett from Flock Safety. You 683 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,317 know, that that's a heroic company that should be at the stature of a Anduril as 684 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,237 well. And and I really helped them build that machine. 685 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,317 So, speaking of the launch as a service offering, this was, you know, inspired 686 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,517 early on I was asking, you know, some of the GPs, "Hey, what would Where could we 687 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,517 make the biggest difference? Like, what what new product should should we have?" 688 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,437 And you know, Cyrus said, "If we could get guarantee a viral announcement, you 689 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,277 know, I I I I think that'd be a super power for us." So, so we built out this 690 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,357 this launch as a service. Um you know, everything soup to nuts from from, you 691 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,037 know, all the all the social media copy, the messaging, the um you know, the the 692 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,037 the rollout. We we created these custom 693 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,397 videos. You know, we we hired Richard, 694 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,437 another 18-year-old who uh you know, we convinced him to go straight from 695 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,557 high school to the MBA, i.e., not go to college, or at least not right now. And 696 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,677 um he uh he had previously done the Cruelty video. 697 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,837 Uh and um and uh the browser-based 698 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,717 video. And he's just got this, you know, phenomenal um taste for for what really 699 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,277 does well. And so, we we built this video team, Richard, Ben, you know, 700 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,157 Henry, you know, has really led this led this product. And and you could see the 701 00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:01,157 the views here. It's it's it's just done phenomenally well. Um you know, millions 702 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:04,277 and millions of views for for our companies. We've now scaled up this 703 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,277 offering to be to to offer it to to all 704 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,917 of our companies. And um that that's our first product. After 705 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,397 working with companies, companies were saying, "Hey, 706 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,557 you know, how do I hire people like that?" And and thus the new media 707 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,517 fellowship was born to to help us hire them, but also help help our companies 708 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,277 hire them. And so, uh because, you know, there's this sweet 709 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,877 spot where you need to be online enough 710 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,757 to really know the the the have taste 711 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,877 and and have sensibility and understand these new platforms, but um 712 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,037 you need also need to be functioning enough and professional enough to work 713 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,397 at one of these companies. And and 714 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,797 there's not many people can can can do 715 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,237 both. And so, we've really um you know, 716 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,197 tried to create this this uh this program to be able to identify these 717 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,237 people and then just give them a little 718 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,957 bit more sort of technical know-how. And 719 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,157 so, our first fellowship uh we you know, 720 00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:01,277 2,000 applications, we picked 65 people. 721 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,677 We think we think they're incredible. Um 722 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,997 we two hires from us came came from that 723 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,677 so so far. Um and we think this is going to be a franchise um to come. And and and 724 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,717 the other part of it I'll just leave is um you know, I think we were really 725 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,077 popularizing this term new media. Seeing a number of people with, you know, new 726 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,877 media JDs. They they want a head of new media. They they're they're they're 727 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,357 looking for that. And I think we're uh sort of in in the way that we 728 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,357 popularized American Dynamism and other people have American Dynamism practices, 729 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,837 um we're starting to see that with with with Newbie. And so, it's cool to to see 730 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,357 our thought leadership there. 731 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,677 Um and uh you know, more to uh more more to come. So so yeah, those are 732 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,437 the things I'll I'll leave you with in our our our presentation. The um 733 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,277 you know, our our channels are are up um tremendously and we're going to continue 734 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,477 to to invest in them. We um we've got this portfolio offering launch as a 735 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,757 service. We're we're, you know, now launching our go direct motion and 736 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,917 really helping our our CEOs and and companies do that. It has to come from 737 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,277 the CEO. So, every engagement we do, the CEO is is tremendously engaged. Um and 738 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,517 then we're really building out this this new media category creation, this new 739 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,957 media talent base for for us cuz we're continuing to hire, um but then also our 740 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,157 our our our our our >> Yeah, so Ben, any closing thoughts? 741 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,437 >> I'm I would just say that I 742 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,157 you know, particularly if you've spent 743 00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:28,597 time in uh the prior media regime, um 744 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,957 you know, of old media. 745 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,077 You know, you really have to rethink 746 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,037 every instinct that you have cuz 747 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,597 it's it's one of the weirdest things where all your instincts 748 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,037 are wrong. I mean, we're actually experiencing a little bit of this in AI, 749 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,797 too, which you know, Martin wrote a great post on, which is like in the old 750 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,917 world of software, the one thing you knew is you couldn't throw money at a 751 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,957 problem. And now you can throw money at a problem. And so like 752 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,157 you don't even realize how much of your 753 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:03,677 thinking is affected by that old rule. 754 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,757 Um and you know, 755 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,357 I would say this is that in spades where 756 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,557 like every single instinct you have is incorrect if you're in this world, and 757 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,197 you just have to let it all go. And this is why you know, this is people lament, 758 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,717 "Oh, like the right wing built this big podcast 759 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,717 network and blah blah." That's not what happened. What happened is 760 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,397 Trump just understood new media. For whatever I don't know why he did cuz 761 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,197 he's so old and he's been in old media 762 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,037 the whole time. But like he just rolled 763 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,517 right into it and you know, not at a 764 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,397 technological level, but as a media. 765 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,957 Uh as a medium. And I think that 766 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,317 you know, we've got to do that. We have to understand uh and and we have to kind 767 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,477 of play by the new rules. >> Uh all my favorite comedians, 768 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,837 podcasters, etc. always tell their guests, "Don't read the comments." 769 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,637 Uh what do you guys think? Do the manic Reddit posters drive you nuts? I have 770 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:02,077 not dived into our podcast comment section, but I have seen A16Z rage on 771 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,797 Reddit. Not surprising. Uh for what it's worth, every tiny 772 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,077 little conference I've been at while at A16Z has always had an A16Z fanboy 773 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,677 raving about our podcast. Um yeah, so Eric, read the contents or read the 774 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,797 comments, don't read the comments. 775 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,797 >> Uh, don't read the comments if they're going to affect what you say. 776 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,317 Um, it's it's kind of like the Yelp problem, you know, people who care 777 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,717 enough to post either either absolutely love it or absolutely hate it, and we 778 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,877 we've definitely got at this point I I I it doesn't affect me, so I I read the 779 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,197 comments. But, uh, you know, I um I well, you 780 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,037 know, and Mark and Ben have helped me not not get too concerned about some of 781 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,557 the some of the commentary on Twitter by, you know, certain anonymous, 782 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,357 uh, Twitter posters who who, you know, raging in their basements, et cetera. 783 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,117 But, yeah, in short, don't read the comments. 784 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,717 >> Yeah, so I'll just I'll I'll just maybe close on on on on two things. So, one is 785 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,957 um Uh, there's a long history of this, and so, if you read any sort of 786 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,037 biography or autobiography of any sort of professional author, you know, um Uh, 787 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,477 you know, who writes writes books for a living, like 100% of the time at some 788 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,357 point they will tell you, "Oh, the one thing I never do is read read read the 789 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,917 read the critics, right? I never read the reviews." Um, and then and then 790 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,880 they'll say, "Well, actually, no, that's not true. I always read the reviews." 791 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,597 Cuz I know I shouldn't, right? Like, I know I shouldn't. I know I shouldn't 792 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,597 because like critics, like by definition, are like, you know, 793 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,437 basically bitter, you know, bitter people, um, 794 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,157 you know, who aren't who aren't writing novels or whatever. And so, of course 795 00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:33,277 they're going to be mad. Um, and and I know I shouldn't read. I know 796 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,397 it's very bad for me. I know it's going to really screw me up. Um, 797 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,357 and then I I try, and then it's like a magnetic pull. I I always end up reading 798 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,477 them, you know, cuz it's like 3:00 in the morning, and I can't resist, and 799 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,157 then I always end up getting mad. 800 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:45,837 Um, and so there there, you know, there is this push. And and it used to be, 801 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,357 right, only professional authors or professional filmmakers or whatever had 802 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,877 critics. Right? Reviews. And now, basically, right, the entire the entire 803 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,997 world is a critic. And so, I I think we all we all we all we all kind of have 804 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,877 that. It's it's a little bit of a it's a little bit of a push and a pull. Um, and 805 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,357 so, um, that is a that is a little bit a little bit difficult. Um You know, I 806 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,677 will say I I think maybe a thing to kind of bear in mind, Um, I couldn't resist. 807 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,237 I posted a link to it another book on this topic with it has a great title 808 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,277 called Kill All Normies. Um, and it's this this book actually 809 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,477 from like a decade ago that talked about like this kind of very angry internet 810 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,517 culture, you know, the kind of developed after the 2000s. Um, and um, because by 811 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,317 the way, the internet was not always like this. Like in the in the very very 812 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,157 early days the internet was so hard to get on to that the only people who were 813 00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:32,317 on the internet were like basically super basically like smart super 814 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,237 successful people. >> Yeah, newsgroups were really good then. 815 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,917 >> Yeah, yeah, like the pre-1993 newsgroups were like utopian. 816 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,797 Um, and then and then and then sort of post-1993 things started going sideways 817 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,757 and then things start that the modern kind of caustic internet culture really 818 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,237 developed in the in the 2000s and 2010s. 819 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,157 Um, but but basically like it it actually turns out there's like a 820 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:55,757 a genealogy to it and it actually turns out like a lot of it is literally 821 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,477 literally it's it's like Call of Duty lobbies um, 822 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,717 for online gaming. So it's like literally like online gaming lobbies 823 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,677 cuz like when the Xbox and the PlayStation, you know, kind of 824 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,557 rolled out voice you know, voice interaction for the first time, you 825 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,557 know, they're like it'd be great for players to be able to talk to each other 826 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,157 and it turns out you just get like, you know, 12-year-old boys in these lobbies 827 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:17,037 just like torching the you know, out of everybody and and and literally 828 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,157 trying to get under their opponent's skin and then being willing to, you 829 00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:23,797 know, anonymously say absolutely anything to do it. Um, right? And so 830 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,237 that led to, you know, you know, very very coarse, very vulgar, very 831 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,437 offensive, you know, kind of thing and then that you know, kind of flipped, you 832 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,037 know, that kind of culture kind of expanded into early internet forums like 833 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,517 Something Awful. And then it started metastasizing into things like you know, 834 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,757 like YouTube comments um, and then you know, and then 835 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,477 obviously social media kind of blew that open. And so um, there is this 836 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,117 you know, there is this kind of you know, I don't know like 837 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,117 rage undercurrent to everything. 838 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,757 Um, and I guess it just say you know, it just got you you do kind of literally 839 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,957 have to think about it. These are people literally in their in their in their 840 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,317 parents' basement. >> And by the way, the you know, the other thing is 841 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,557 generally when we get attacked on the comments are or like that, it's somebody 842 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:07,037 with like four followers or like a bot or something like that. So, it's a 843 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,757 >> And by the way, that that includes when it's hey Montra Venod. 844 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,157 >> Yeah. And that includes when it's hey Montra Venod. 845 00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:16,800 >> Yeah. Yes. Yes.