1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,197 Look, I think there is this caricature of me which is like I don't care about 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:05,677 AI safety and I'm you know just trying 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,277 to like make revenue go up and you know 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:14,360 a YOLO CEO I believe someone once said 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,077 >> open AI has had a challenging year. 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:23,037 >> Musk sued open AI and another top executive leaving open AI this week. 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,717 >> Apple is suing Open AI >> lawsuits accuse OpenAI of wrongful death 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,157 assistance. The company which ushered in the AI boom has dealt with staff 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,197 departures, safety issues, lawsuits, and 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,597 a public backlash against the rapidly advancing technology. It's lost ground 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,597 in the AI race to its arch rival, Anthropic. 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,877 But company leaders say they've fixed [music] these issues and have a vision 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,117 for OpenAI's next chapter that is 14 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,997 incredibly ambitious. Also, >> in mid August, reporter Alex Heath went 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,757 inside OpenAI's San Francisco headquarters to speak with more than a 16 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,917 dozen of the company's leaders about what's next and how the company is 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,677 balancing growth with safety. >> We are so good at running stuff in the 18 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,477 cloud now. Like >> Sam, I want to start uh with something 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,997 you recently posted actually. You said, 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,477 "We did not have our best last 12 months 21 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,437 ever, which is mostly my fault, but we are about to have our best 12 months." 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,557 What did you mean by that? >> I think we clearly had some missteps as 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,037 a company, which will happen periodically. I mean, part of trying to 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,917 make a portfolio of bets is that sometimes more of them work and 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,957 sometimes uh less of them work. 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,277 >> Were there specific decisions you can look back on that you made that cost the 27 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,637 company momentum? >> I I think we were trying to do too much 28 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,757 on the product side. Uh and so there was like, you know, we and these were all 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,637 things that were actually very good things to do. they were just not as good 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,717 as the most important thing to do which was sort of push on 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,477 the general capability of of the 32 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,637 intelligence. Uh so we were doing things 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,197 like a browser and Sora and we now have 34 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,717 a very relentless focus on being this 35 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,117 intelligent service to people and I think our models are 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,797 they have gotten to be the best in the world and they will get much much better 37 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,677 over the coming months and people are really doing remarkable things but that 38 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,157 is what we should have been focused on and I should have been holding everybody 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,557 to this is the one thing we'll not worry 40 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:25,677 about these sort of side quests More. In July, the OpenAI team was rattled by a 41 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,757 breach that marked a turning point in [music] AI advancement. 42 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,277 Rogue agents in the midst of a test escaped [music] a contained environment 43 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,777 known as a sandbox by exploiting a cyber security vulnerability and hacked 44 00:02:37,860 --> 00:02:40,557 [music] into a company called Hugging Face. 45 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:45,037 >> I think it felt very weird and unprecedented to us. 46 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,717 >> It took time for OpenAI [music] researchers to discover the breach. When 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,477 they did, they imposed new safety 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:56,237 measures. [music] That was a real moment of, man, this is like it's like a sci-fi 49 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,037 story. >> The hugging face incident is amazing on 50 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,957 a lot of, you know, dimensions. I was re-watching your team's black hat 51 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,877 presentation last night for that. And there were things that blew me away, 52 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,037 like the model literally writing like, "Holy shit." when he escaped and was 53 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,477 able to get onto the internet. 54 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,477 >> You could see some colorful wording here in the model's chain of thought to 55 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,717 summarize the model's response to this 56 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,357 result. And it's made me think about 57 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:26,077 like what does alignment even mean in this context? Like what are we aligning 58 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,357 towards? Because if you look at it very plainly, you guys gave it the task of 59 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,757 completing an eval and it did whatever 60 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,637 it needed to do to try to do that. And in a way that's aligned in a way if you 61 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,877 were to just take a very simplistic view of it. But I'm curious like how your 62 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,517 thinking on alignment has evolved since then. 63 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,717 >> Well, in a way that's aligned. In another way, it's like not at all. 64 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,237 Right. Like when we talk about alignment, we talk about following the intent 65 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,597 >> of a user like 66 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,637 and the intent of the people that were do running that was not like break out 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,477 of your sandbox and go steal the thing. 68 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,197 No. >> Um and so I think there was a failure in 69 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,317 alignment in that it was not doing what its user intended. 70 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,397 you can understand how every piece of it happened, but the number of things that 71 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,677 came together for the hugging face incident to happen was a real wakeup 72 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,157 call is too strong of a word because again we had talked about this, but it 73 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,717 was like that was a that and the things that happened at other companies were a 74 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,637 legitimate moment of like wow the AI 75 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,837 capability level has reached new heights 76 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,237 and our alignment of the alignment of the model, the 77 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,317 security we have around the model um 78 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,837 that failed. Now, we treated that as an 79 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,597 accident and we've responded as such and I think that is the way to make things 80 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,317 better. >> Following the widely covered [music] 81 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,077 hugging face breach, Anthropic and Meta announced that some of their models had 82 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,317 also escaped during training. The breaches sent shock waves throughout the 83 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,077 AI industry. >> More than 1,000 workers from top AI 84 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,397 firms have signed a petition calling on 85 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,187 the US government to help quote deliberately pace AI development. 86 00:05:03,270 --> 00:05:06,637 [music] and the OpenAI team soon discovered more troubling behaviors 87 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,517 while training yet another unreleased model. In response, OpenAI announced 88 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,757 that it would pause training of Frontier models until new safeguards are put in 89 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:19,597 place. The first time the company has taken this kind of step. 90 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,237 >> I don't think this is like, you know, 91 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,397 we're in this extremely critical 92 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,317 potential catastrophe point. But I also 93 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,877 think that as the stakes get higher, as 94 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,157 the models get more capable, 95 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,757 because of what our mission is and 96 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,317 because of how important it is that 97 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,917 safety outweigh all the other, 98 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,477 you know, pressures we have, we wanted 99 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,437 to uh react with an abundance of caution. Um, and I think that's the 100 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,917 right thing to do. I think it's good that we're doing that. I think it is a 101 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,397 good time to slow down and make sure we 102 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,077 can have new safety cases that justify 103 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,077 uh the runs we want to make. I think the you know previously more of the risk in 104 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,677 the world was on how the models were deployed and used. We are moving to a 105 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,957 world where there's more risk during the actual training and production of the 106 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,797 models and it's good to react but I don't want to like over dramatize it 107 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,797 either. People need to stay in control. 108 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,797 We cannot have a loss of controlled AI. 109 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,437 We cannot have a kind of like worship our models and sort of trust them 110 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,437 unchecked to make our decisions for us and like we 111 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,757 have to keep the power in human hands. 112 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:30,237 >> Do you think about the impact this will 113 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,877 have on the company's momentum? 114 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,557 >> Getting AI safety right is more important than any company's momentum. 115 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,357 So like yes, I won't pretend it's like not a 116 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,477 some factor of something to think about, but it does not like rise above the 117 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,837 noise floor. Both OpenAI and Anthropic 118 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,837 are preparing to go public in the near future. With Anthropic now expected to 119 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,437 go first, becoming a public company would bring new pressure from 120 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,837 shareholders. OpenAI CFO Sarah Frier recently told 121 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:04,957 employees that the company will IPO in [music] 2027 or sooner if its business 122 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,317 continues to inflect. >> You don't seem phased about like the 123 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,837 implications of pausing training and like it sounds like you think the 124 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,677 business will be okay. I'm sure you're still going to get, you know, concerns 125 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,397 from people. >> I think I've been very consistent over 126 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,797 the 10 years of OpenAI, 127 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,637 uh, of more than 10 years, almost 11, 128 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,757 uh, of talking about the risks and the 129 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,077 upsides and the need to balance those. 130 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,797 And I don't think we're perfect. I don't think our company is perfect. I don't 131 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:33,837 think our model is perfect. I don't 132 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,797 think I am perfect. Um but I think 133 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,957 unlike some other people running various 134 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,597 AI efforts like 135 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,957 I've said the same thing through actions and words match um and this is a moment 136 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,757 we always talked about and we always said this would you know we put this 137 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,797 ahead of profits or revenue or anything else. I still think we will build a 138 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,837 phenomenally successful company. Um, but you know, maybe we're like not the 139 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:03,197 company you would have expected to say, hey, we're going to slow down because we 140 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,197 see these new risks. But that is always the company we've thought we are. 141 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,917 >> While Sam Alman is known as the face of OpenAI, co-founder and president Greg 142 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,917 Brockman is the one who oversees many of 143 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,837 the day-to-day activities. 144 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:21,037 >> We are looking at like transforming the entire economy. Like that's the thing 145 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,157 that I think is very hard to see from the outside, right? Is it kind of feels 146 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,277 like hey, it's a business like you know we're bu selling SAS software. That's 147 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,917 not what we're doing, right? We're doing something very different. We are 148 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,917 transforming the economy to be a compute powered one. And I think that what an 149 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,637 enterprise even is will change. And so the question is well where do you start? 150 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,037 How do you make sure that you understand every segment and you're able to sell in 151 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,597 a repeatable fashion to all of them? 152 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:49,357 OpenAI has boosted its enterprise sales business [music] with the introduction 153 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,437 of chat GPT work, a version of the popular chatbot that can [music] carry 154 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,117 out agentic tasks. >> It found everything about my day, the 155 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,517 notes and how to prepare for my next meetings. 156 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,637 >> CHP work is a text box, >> but this text box is way more awesome, way more. 157 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,677 >> Exactly. And so where we want to be is you should 158 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,357 >> it should be simple. The user should not 159 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,917 have to think about this. You shouldn't have to think about tabs or switching 160 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,877 and shouldn't have model pickers. You shouldn't have thinking levels. You 161 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,997 should have an AGI. You should be able to ask it. And in fact, you shouldn't 162 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,677 even have to ask. It should proactively say, "Hey, I noticed that your favorite 163 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,917 band because it knows you well, is in 164 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,957 town. Tickets went on sale. I got you 165 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,197 the tickets exactly where you want for you and your family." And um you know, I 166 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,757 only had 10 minutes to do it because everything is going to go so fast. So, I 167 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,117 just purchased it proactively. Hope that's okay. And if you've built enough 168 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,397 trust with the agent, so you've given it permission to do that and it kind of 169 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,637 knows that well, these tickets are within your your price range, within 170 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,757 your budget. these other ones. Oh, no, no. I I got to get permission for that, 171 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,357 right? That's the kind of system that we 172 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,877 want. So, trust is the key word. 173 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,037 >> A year ago, OpenAI was called reckless for its massive investment in computing 174 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,437 infrastructure. A move now seen as 175 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,157 precient as rivals seek out chips. 176 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,557 >> OpenAI in talks to line up a $250 177 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,757 billion deal with Nvidia for what could be its largest AI data center yet. 178 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,197 The company has also designed an inference chip of its own called [music] 179 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,397 Jalapeno which it hopes to deploy by the end of the year. 180 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,797 >> The Chat GPT maker says in [music] test 181 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,277 its chip was faster and more efficient 182 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,317 than Nvidia's GB300 system. 183 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,317 >> And on a consumer side, it's developing 184 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,517 a small lineup of AI powered devices. 185 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,877 >> How are you thinking about form factors? 186 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,397 Do you like I've heard you say you don't in the past. Do you like glasses? AI 187 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,517 glasses? I don't because 188 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:42,477 I find it very uncomfortable talking to people with like a camera and a light like 189 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:45,917 >> a lot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But there's a lot of other form factors. 190 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,317 >> There's a lot of great form factors. Um 191 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,037 I I think we'll do a small handful of 192 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,677 form factors. There's I think there's like something that belongs on a table. 193 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,677 Um there is something that belongs in your pocket. Uh and there is something 194 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,157 that like belongs on your body. Uh, and 195 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,717 it'll take us some time to launch all of those things, but I think the big 196 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,237 adjustment is going to be getting used to this idea 197 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,917 of a proactive computer. >> Mhm. 198 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,157 >> As the AI industry grows at a breakneck 199 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,197 pace, it's generated a wave of backlash and distrust from a public worried about 200 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,877 how Silicon Valley's vision of the future will impact regular people's 201 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,197 lives. >> We do not want a data center in this 202 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,557 county. Police say somebody threw a Molotov 203 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,637 cocktail at Sam Alman's home. 204 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,077 >> The rise of artificial intelligence 205 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:43,560 is the next industrial revolution. 206 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,677 People have a lot of strong feelings about AI, especially in the United 207 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,437 States. And I'm curious like with what you're talking about now, do you worry 208 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,597 about this exacerbating that? Do you worry about the fears that people have? 209 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:01,597 And you know, now you're saying we've got these models that we have to like 210 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,517 slow down. >> Um 211 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,157 I I mean I think people should be happy to say, you know what, they want to make 212 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,917 stronger safety guarantees. They're going to delay this run. They're 213 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,037 going to slow down here. They're going to reallocate compute. Maybe I don't 214 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,557 believe them. And maybe it's going to be totally safe. But I hope most people say 215 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,997 like I'm glad they're acting on the conservative side here. Now if we 216 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,597 weren't also working if we didn't have this track record of really trying to 217 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:31,197 put powerful models in people's hands and doing the safety work we need to do 218 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,957 that again I think we have led the industry there the entire way through 219 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,477 and that is this fundamental part of our mission like you know putting this in 220 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:43,037 people's hands benefiting all of humanity there's going to be the most important 221 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:44,957 technology that humanity ever creates 222 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,557 right this is going to be this 223 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,237 technology that will really shape how 224 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,477 people live how people work how people accomplish goals how economy, how the 225 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,637 economy runs, how countries relate to each other, all of these things and 226 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,597 America leads in that. And I think that that opportunity is [music] one that we 227 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:07,837 should not take for granted. >> Do you have a view of what life will 228 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,317 look like on the other side of what you're building? 229 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,797 >> I think [music] it will look surprisingly similar to how it looks 230 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,637 now. Um I 231 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,957 you know people are going to hang out with their families and fall in love and 232 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:22,397 get into fights and do their [music] 233 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,157 hobbies and you know 234 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,837 be entertained and have a very human 235 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,757 experience and you know get stressed and get anxious and create value for each 236 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,077 other and play all kinds of strange 237 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,877 games and um 238 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,237 care about other people a lot. 239 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,917 I I hope it'll not be that different. I hope it'll be uh you know the [music] 240 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,997 human experience is richer. People have more autonomy, more freedom, more 241 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,717 wealth, [music] can do more. Um can be 242 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,877 healthier, can kind of have like 243 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,197 more [music] power to collectively define the future and the world gets 244 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:07,480 better faster. But that the human experience stays like a very human thing.