1 00:00:00,180 --> 00:00:04,537 A conversation with Elon Musk is probably one of the most unpredictable 2 00:00:04,620 --> 00:00:08,640 and most testing experiences a journalist can have. 3 00:00:08,910 --> 00:00:14,047 At least that's how it proved for me. What you're about to hear was recorded 4 00:00:14,130 --> 00:00:18,750 in May 2025 at Bloomberg's Qatar Economic Forum. 5 00:00:19,140 --> 00:00:23,917 Elon Musk was, at that time still working with the Trump administration, running 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,060 DOGE, the Department for Government Efficiency. 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:32,587 It was a few months on from his big pledge to cut $2 trillion from the US 8 00:00:32,670 --> 00:00:36,577 federal budget. So I wanted to ask him how that was 9 00:00:36,660 --> 00:00:41,190 going and about his companies, Tesla and Starlink among them. 10 00:00:41,670 --> 00:00:45,030 And here's what actually happened when we spoke. 11 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,147 Elon Musk, welcome to Qatar Economic Forum. 12 00:00:56,230 --> 00:00:58,420 How are you? Thank you for having me. 13 00:00:58,510 --> 00:00:59,610 I'm fine. How are you? 14 00:01:00,250 --> 00:01:02,617 Very well, thank you. And very pleased to have you with us. 15 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:06,587 You know, among those here in the audience in Doha are some you will know 16 00:01:06,670 --> 00:01:11,507 people who have backed you financially over the years since you last spoke here 17 00:01:11,590 --> 00:01:13,967 in 2022. A lot has changed in your life. 18 00:01:14,050 --> 00:01:17,777 You're not only running multiple companies, you were doing that then, but 19 00:01:17,860 --> 00:01:20,927 now you also have a role in government. So first of all, I hope you won't mind 20 00:01:21,010 --> 00:01:24,617 if from time to time I have to move you from one topic to another, because we 21 00:01:24,700 --> 00:01:28,600 have a lot to cover in the time we have. Sure fire away. Will that be alright? 22 00:01:28,930 --> 00:01:31,937 Okay. Well, let's start then, with exactly the 23 00:01:32,020 --> 00:01:36,737 fact that you now have this combination of being a CEO and having a role as a 24 00:01:36,820 --> 00:01:39,020 government advisor. Tell me about your week. 25 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,280 How does it work? What's the split of your time? 26 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:49,837 Well, I travel a lot, so I was in Silicon Valley yesterday morning. 27 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,170 I was in L.A. yesterday evening. 28 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:54,877 I'm in Austin right now. I'll be in D.C. 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,897 tomorrow. I'll be there after having dinner with 30 00:01:58,980 --> 00:02:01,430 the president tomorrow night, I believe. And then 31 00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:07,606 whole bunch of cabinet secretary meetings and then back to Silicon Valley 32 00:02:07,689 --> 00:02:11,897 on Thursday night. But I mean, the balance of your time. 33 00:02:11,980 --> 00:02:14,147 It's a lot. Well, clearly it's a lot. 34 00:02:14,230 --> 00:02:18,077 But is it still the case, as you said a while ago, that it's about 1 to 2 days a 35 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,850 week on your government work? Yeah, that's correct. 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,477 And what does that mean for your corporate life? 37 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,037 Because if we start with Tesla, the company has suffered in recent months 38 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:37,037 what you've called blowback. So what is your plan for turning that 39 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,717 around, the declining sales picture? And by what stage do you think you're 40 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,640 going to be able to turn it around? Oh, 41 00:02:44,740 --> 00:02:49,437 it's already turned around. Give me some evidence for that. 42 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,027 I've just been looking at the sales figures for Europe in April, which 43 00:02:54,110 --> 00:02:56,840 show very significant declines in the big markets. 44 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,390 Europe is our weakest market, we're strong everywhere else. 45 00:03:02,330 --> 00:03:05,850 So our sales are doing doing well at this point. 46 00:03:07,570 --> 00:03:11,040 We don't anticipate any any meaningful sales shortfall and 47 00:03:13,190 --> 00:03:18,597 the you know, the obviously, the stock market recognizes that since we're now 48 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,647 back over trillion in market cap. 49 00:03:20,730 --> 00:03:24,327 So clearly the market is aware of the situation. 50 00:03:24,410 --> 00:03:27,327 So it's already turned around. But sales are still down compared to 51 00:03:27,410 --> 00:03:30,610 this time last year. In Europe. 52 00:03:31,030 --> 00:03:35,980 In Europe. Okay. Yes, but that, but that's that's true of all 53 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,740 manufacturers. There's no exceptions. 54 00:03:40,620 --> 00:03:42,547 Does that mean that you're not going to be able. 55 00:03:42,630 --> 00:03:45,270 Yes. The European market is quite weak. 56 00:03:45,690 --> 00:03:49,717 Okay. But you would acknowledge, wouldn't you, that what you are facing, okay, 57 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,267 Let's just take it as Europe, What you are facing is a significant 58 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:53,977 problem. This Tesla was an incredibly 59 00:03:54,060 --> 00:03:57,750 aspirational brand. People identified with it, it saw it, 60 00:03:58,140 --> 00:04:00,577 they saw it as being at the forefront of the climate crisis. 61 00:04:00,660 --> 00:04:04,117 And now people are driving around with stickers in their cars saying, I bought 62 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,457 this before we knew Elon was crazy. And there are also people who are buying it 63 00:04:09,540 --> 00:04:13,710 it because Elon's crazy or however they may view it. 64 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:18,127 So, yes, we've lost some sales perhaps on the left, but we've gained them on 65 00:04:18,210 --> 00:04:21,517 the right. The sales numbers at this point are 66 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,760 strong and we see no problem with demand. 67 00:04:25,380 --> 00:04:28,357 So what - And I mean, you can just look at the stock 68 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,670 price, but if you want the best insider information, the 69 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:40,897 stock market analysts have that. And a stock wouldn't be trading near all 70 00:04:40,980 --> 00:04:45,240 time highs if it was not if things weren't in good shape. They're fine. 71 00:04:45,540 --> 00:04:49,277 Don't worry about it. Okay. I was citing sales figures rather than share price. 72 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,927 Well, tell me then how committed you are to Tesla. 73 00:04:53,010 --> 00:04:56,137 Do you see yourself and are you committed to still being the chief 74 00:04:56,220 --> 00:05:03,220 executive of Tesla in five years time? Yes. No doubt about that at all. 75 00:05:05,970 --> 00:05:11,527 Well, no, I might die. Okay. 76 00:05:11,610 --> 00:05:13,234 Short of that. I can't be, I can't see you if I'm dead, 77 00:05:13,318 --> 00:05:14,868 so there's a slight amount of - 78 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,217 Does does that mean that the value of your pay doesn't have any bearing on 79 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:28,217 your decision? Well, that's not really a subject for 80 00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:31,300 discussion in this forum, but. 81 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:38,147 I think obviously there should be compensation for if something incredible 82 00:05:38,230 --> 00:05:43,300 is done, that compensation should match it, that something incredible was done. 83 00:05:45,530 --> 00:05:51,410 But I'm confident that whatever the whatever some activist posing as a judge 84 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,060 in Delaware happens to do, it will not affect the future compensation. 85 00:05:55,850 --> 00:06:00,620 This is the judge who twice struck down the $56 billion 86 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:03,267 pay package that was that was awarded to you. 87 00:06:03,350 --> 00:06:07,197 I think the value on the basis on the current value of stock options. 88 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:12,177 Yeah. Not a judge, not a judge. The activist who is cosplaying a judge 89 00:06:12,260 --> 00:06:15,357 in a Halloween costume. Okay. 90 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,737 That's that's your characterization. Yes. I think on the current value of 91 00:06:19,820 --> 00:06:24,087 stock options - justice according to the law - on the 92 00:06:24,170 --> 00:06:27,477 current value of stock options, I think the value that pay package stands at 93 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,797 about 00 billion. Are you saying you are relaxed about the 94 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:37,647 value of your future pay package, your decision to be committed to Tesla for 95 00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:41,517 the next five years, as long as you are still with us on this planet is 96 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,150 completely independent of pay. No. 97 00:06:47,750 --> 00:06:50,637 It's not independent, so pay is a relevant factor then to your commitment 98 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:56,080 to Tesla. A sufficient voting control such that 99 00:06:57,250 --> 00:07:00,647 I cannot be ousted by activist investors is what matters to me. 100 00:07:00,730 --> 00:07:04,577 And I've said this publicly many times. But let's not have this whole thing be a 101 00:07:04,660 --> 00:07:07,547 discussion of my alleged pay, it's not a money thing. 102 00:07:07,630 --> 00:07:11,627 It's a reasonable control thing over the future of the company, especially if 103 00:07:11,710 --> 00:07:14,960 we're building millions, potentially billions of humanoid robots. 104 00:07:15,580 --> 00:07:19,840 I can't be sitting there and wondering to get tossed out by 105 00:07:21,010 --> 00:07:23,747 for political reasons by activists. That would be unacceptable. 106 00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:26,050 That's all that matters. Now, let's move on. 107 00:07:26,260 --> 00:07:28,487 Okay. Well, just one question. 108 00:07:28,570 --> 00:07:30,010 Now let's move on. 109 00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:35,177 Well one question before we move on to other companies, which is that I wonder if 110 00:07:35,260 --> 00:07:38,920 some of what you've has happened to Tesla in the last few months. 111 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,640 Did you take it personally? Yes. 112 00:07:44,150 --> 00:07:48,657 And did it make you regret any of the old think twice about your political 113 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:49,573 endeavors? 114 00:07:57,990 --> 00:08:01,860 Because it is. I did what needed to be done. 115 00:08:02,850 --> 00:08:06,000 The violent antibody reaction. 116 00:08:07,170 --> 00:08:09,670 And I'm not someone who's ever committed violence. 117 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,560 And yet massive violence was committed against 118 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,357 my companies. Massive violence was threatened against 119 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,290 me. Who are these people? 120 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,880 Why would they do that? How wrong can they be? 121 00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,450 They're on the wrong side of history. 122 00:08:27,550 --> 00:08:32,110 And that's an evil thing to do to go and damage some poor innocent person's car. 123 00:08:34,470 --> 00:08:38,280 To threaten to kill me. What's wrong with these people? 124 00:08:39,060 --> 00:08:42,690 I've not harmed anyone. So, 125 00:08:44,010 --> 00:08:47,960 something needs to be done about them. And a number of them are going to prison 126 00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:53,017 and they deserve it. And more will. You're referring to 127 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:59,557 the attacks on Tesla's showrooms. But I think - Yeah. Well, it's the showrooms and 128 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,640 burning down cars is unacceptable. Yeah. 129 00:09:01,860 --> 00:09:05,017 Those people will go to prison and the people that funded them and organized 130 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:07,657 them will also go to prison. Don't worry. We're coming for you. 131 00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:10,290 But wouldn't you, wouldn't, wouldn't you, 132 00:09:15,940 --> 00:09:18,977 but wouldn't you acknowledge that some of the people who turned against Tesla 133 00:09:19,060 --> 00:09:24,977 in Europe were were upset at your politics and very few of them would have 134 00:09:25,060 --> 00:09:29,627 been violent in any way? They just objected to to what they saw 135 00:09:29,710 --> 00:09:34,917 you say or do politically. Well, it's certainly fine to object to 136 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,207 political things, but it's not it's not fine to resort to violence and hanging 137 00:09:39,290 --> 00:09:43,220 someone in effigy and death threats. That's obviously not okay. 138 00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:51,500 You know, that's absurd. That is in no way justifiable at all. 139 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,917 In any way, shape or form. And some of the legacy media nonetheless 140 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,347 have sought to justify it, which is unconscionable. 141 00:09:59,430 --> 00:10:02,497 Shame on them. Let's talk about your other companies 142 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:04,530 then. Another business area, Space X. 143 00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:09,367 I saw that you said in a speech at the West Point Military Academy recently 144 00:10:09,450 --> 00:10:13,297 that the future of warfare is AI and drones. 145 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:19,357 And obviously defense is an increasingly booming sector with the state of the 146 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,970 world at the moment. Do you see Space X moving into weaponized drones? 147 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,340 You certainly ask interesting questions that are impossible to answer. 148 00:10:37,570 --> 00:10:43,780 So SpaceX is a it's the space launch leader. 149 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:48,970 So SpaceX doesn't do drones. SpaceX builds rockets, satellites and 150 00:10:49,540 --> 00:10:56,540 internet terminals. So SpaceX has has a a very dominant 151 00:10:57,430 --> 00:11:01,517 position in space launch. So of the mass launch to orbit the 152 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:08,600 sphere, SpaceX will probably do 90% China will do the remain, half 153 00:11:10,270 --> 00:11:13,007 of the remaining amount so 5% and the rest of the world including the rest of 154 00:11:13,090 --> 00:11:16,037 US, will do about 5%. So SpaceX will be about ten times as 155 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,247 much as the rest of the world combined, or 20 times as much as China, which is - 156 00:11:19,330 --> 00:11:21,830 and China is doing actually a very impressive job. 157 00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:25,727 The reason for this is that we are putting into orbit the largest satellite 158 00:11:25,810 --> 00:11:28,120 constellation the world has ever seen by far. 159 00:11:28,930 --> 00:11:35,177 So I think at this point, about maybe approaching 80% of all active satellites 160 00:11:35,260 --> 00:11:40,510 in orbit are SpaceX, and they're providing global high bandwidth global 161 00:11:41,410 --> 00:11:43,487 connectivity throughout the world. In fact, this connection is on the SpaceX 162 00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:47,590 connection. So I think this is a very good thing 163 00:11:48,130 --> 00:11:53,147 because it means that we can provide low cost, high bandwidth internet to parts 164 00:11:53,230 --> 00:11:55,517 of the world that don't have it or it's very expensive. 165 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,987 And I think the single biggest thing you can do to lift people out of poverty and 166 00:12:00,070 --> 00:12:03,220 help them is giving them an internet connection. 167 00:12:04,180 --> 00:12:06,677 Because once you have the Internet connection, you can learn anything for 168 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,427 free on the Internet and you can also sell your goods and services to the 169 00:12:10,510 --> 00:12:13,090 global market. And 170 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:20,360 once you have knowledge by the internet and the ability to engage in commerce, 171 00:12:21,830 --> 00:12:26,037 this is going to greatly improve quality of life for people throughout the world. 172 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,697 And it has. And I'd just like to thank anyone in the 173 00:12:29,780 --> 00:12:32,230 audience who may have been helpful and, you know, 174 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,747 with Starlink and getting it approved in their country. 175 00:12:36,830 --> 00:12:39,147 And I think it's doing a lot of good in the countries that have approved it, 176 00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:42,730 which is, I think at this point, 130 countries are very happy with it. 177 00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:46,767 I don't currently anticipate SpaceX getting into the weapons 178 00:12:46,850 --> 00:12:48,807 business. That's certainly, that's not an 179 00:12:48,890 --> 00:12:53,157 aspiration. We're frequently asked to do to do weapons 180 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:59,847 programs, but we have thus far declined. Do you envisage SpaceX or indeed 181 00:12:59,930 --> 00:13:05,840 Starlink, as a separate entity publicly listing in the near future or at all? 182 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,040 It's possible that Starlink may go public at some point in the future. 183 00:13:14,490 --> 00:13:17,140 And what would be that, what would be the time frame? 184 00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:21,407 What kind of time frame are you considering? I'm in no rush. 185 00:13:21,490 --> 00:13:27,030 I'm in no rush to go public. You know public is, I guess, a way to 186 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,287 you know potentially make more money, but at the expense of a lot of public company 187 00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:38,297 overhead and inevitably a whole bunch of lawsuits which are very 188 00:13:38,380 --> 00:13:41,057 annoying. So really, something needs to be done 189 00:13:41,140 --> 00:13:46,510 about the shareholder derivative lawsuits in the U.S. because it allows 190 00:13:49,510 --> 00:13:53,267 plaintiff's law firms who don't represent the shareholders to pretend that they 191 00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:57,347 represent the shareholders by getting a public plaintiff with a few shares to 192 00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:59,780 initiate a massive lawsuit against the company. 193 00:13:59,950 --> 00:14:05,627 And the irony being that, extreme irony, that even if the class they purport to 194 00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:09,647 represent were to vote, that they don't want the lawsuit, the lawsuit will still 195 00:14:09,730 --> 00:14:13,337 continue. So how can it be a class action 196 00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:15,920 representing a class if the class were against it? 197 00:14:16,180 --> 00:14:18,527 And that's the bizarre situation we've got in the U.S. 198 00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:20,530 It needs, it's in dire need of reform. 199 00:14:21,610 --> 00:14:25,757 And as anyone who's run a public company experiences, it's an absurd 200 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,967 situation that needs to change. Well, do you think Donald Trump might 201 00:14:29,050 --> 00:14:30,887 change it? You've certainly got his ear. 202 00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:34,847 I imagine that you've put this to him. Is this something you're trying to 203 00:14:34,930 --> 00:14:39,880 change before any StarLink IPO? Well, 204 00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:47,017 it would need a law to be passed. The trouble being that you need 60 205 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:51,480 Senate votes and the Democrats will vote against it. 206 00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:57,427 The, the plaintiff's bar is, I 207 00:14:57,510 --> 00:15:00,710 believe, the second largest contributor to the Democratic Party. 208 00:15:02,650 --> 00:15:04,967 That's the that's the issue. At the state level, 209 00:15:05,050 --> 00:15:09,407 this can be solved, and I should say Texas recently passed a 210 00:15:09,490 --> 00:15:12,790 law which at least the state level made - 211 00:15:14,430 --> 00:15:17,362 it's much more reasonable, because you have to get at least one in 33 212 00:15:17,446 --> 00:15:22,920 shareholders to agree that they are part of a class of shareholders, 3%. 213 00:15:24,510 --> 00:15:28,170 This is it, this will be, will be really help with frivolous lawsuits. 214 00:15:28,830 --> 00:15:33,397 Okay. Let's talk about AI, which is in so 215 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:38,197 many of your businesses and in all our worlds in different ways. 216 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,937 It's one of the big changes, the development of generative AI since you 217 00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:45,967 last spoke to this forum three years ago. 218 00:15:46,050 --> 00:15:49,687 You're in this space, of course, with Grok, which almost everyone will know. 219 00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:54,780 You co-founded OpenAI and then left, and you've obviously got a legal battle 220 00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:58,477 with OpenAI and Sam Altman. But I wonder if you could say something 221 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,797 about the status of that because you were together in Saudi Arabia with the 222 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,390 president last week with Sam Altman - Not together. 223 00:16:06,474 --> 00:16:08,857 In the same place at the same time. 224 00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:12,332 I was with the president and Sam was in the neighborhood. 225 00:16:12,415 --> 00:16:19,050 Does that mean you are pushing ahead with the lawsuit against OpenAI? Yes. 226 00:16:20,610 --> 00:16:27,577 So I came up with the name OpenAI as an open source and as a non-profit, and I 227 00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:31,920 funded AI, OpenAI for the first roughly $50 million. 228 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:38,347 And it was intended to be a nonprofit open source company. 229 00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:44,137 And now they're trying to change that for their own financial benefit into a 230 00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:46,590 for profit company that is closed source. 231 00:16:47,010 --> 00:16:52,657 So this would be like, let's say you you funded a nonprofit to help preserve 232 00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:56,287 the Amazon rainforest. But instead of doing that, they became a 233 00:16:56,370 --> 00:16:58,237 lumber company, chopped down the forest to sold the wood. 234 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,170 You'd be like, wait a second, that's not what I funded. 235 00:17:02,670 --> 00:17:04,687 That's OpenAI. They've made some changes to their 236 00:17:04,770 --> 00:17:07,260 corporate structure, though, haven't they, since, 237 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,680 in recognition of what, of what you've said and - 238 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:14,110 No, that's just what they told the media. 239 00:17:14,990 --> 00:17:17,790 Okay. It's 240 00:17:19,090 --> 00:17:20,547 hot. They have, 241 00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:25,167 they have partly walked back their plan to restructure the business. 242 00:17:25,250 --> 00:17:27,867 I guess that's made no difference to how you feel about it. 243 00:17:27,950 --> 00:17:31,500 So you're determined to see them in court? Of course. 244 00:17:32,190 --> 00:17:34,087 Okay. Well, that that's certainly going to be 245 00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:36,757 one to watch. I also wanted to ask you about AI and 246 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,357 regulation, because when you were here last talking to John Micklethwait, you 247 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:45,337 had some pretty strong words about the risk that AI poses. 248 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:48,997 And you said that you really felt what the U.S. 249 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,557 was missing was a federal AI regulator, that, you know, something along the 250 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,497 lines of the Food and Drug Administration or the Federal Aviation 251 00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:59,970 Administration. Now, you're clearly now in a zone where 252 00:18:00,330 --> 00:18:03,457 you're more you're more on the cutting regulation side than wanting new 253 00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:06,637 regulators. So has your view changed on the need for 254 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,477 an AI regulator? Well, it's not that I don't think there 255 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,317 should be regulators. You think of regulators like referees on 256 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,007 the, on the field, in sports, there should be some number 257 00:18:18,090 --> 00:18:21,367 of referees, but that you shouldn't have so many referees that you can't kick the 258 00:18:21,450 --> 00:18:28,450 ball without hitting one. So in many and most of our fields in the 259 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,657 U.S., the regulatory burden has grown over 260 00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:36,307 time to the point where it's like having more referees than than players on the 261 00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:38,580 field. So 262 00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:42,967 and this is a natural consequence of an extended period of prosperity. 263 00:18:43,050 --> 00:18:45,390 It's very important to appreciate this. 264 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,697 This has happened throughout history. When you have an extended period of 265 00:18:48,780 --> 00:18:52,080 prosperity with no existential war, there's no there's no 266 00:18:53,220 --> 00:18:59,760 cleansing function for the unnecessary laws and regulations. 267 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:04,597 So what happens is that every year more laws and more regulations are passed 268 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,687 because, you know, legislators are going to 269 00:19:07,770 --> 00:19:10,897 legislate. Regulators are going to regulate, and 270 00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:15,900 you'll get a steady pile of more and more laws and regulations over time. 271 00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:20,850 And so everything is illegal. And let me give you an example of a 272 00:19:21,180 --> 00:19:25,770 truly absurd situation. Under the Biden administration, SpaceX 273 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,110 was sued for not hiring asylum seekers in the U.S.. 274 00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:36,170 Now, the problem is it's actually illegal for SpaceX under ITAR, 275 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:40,267 International Traffic and Arms Regulation, to hire anyone who is not a 276 00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:44,287 permanent resident of the United States, because the premise being that they will 277 00:19:44,370 --> 00:19:47,407 take advanced rocket technology and return it to their home country if they're 278 00:19:47,490 --> 00:19:50,460 not a permanent resident. So we're simultaneously 279 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,440 in a situation where it is illegal to hire asylum seekers and it is also 280 00:19:56,220 --> 00:20:01,627 illegal to hire asylum seekers. And Biden's Department of Justice chose 281 00:20:01,710 --> 00:20:05,010 to prosecute us despite both paths being illegal. 282 00:20:05,670 --> 00:20:08,513 Damned if you do, damned if you don't. How absurd is - But my question 283 00:20:08,597 --> 00:20:09,517 was specifically about a 284 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,467 regulator for AI, which you said three years ago was needed, and you said we 285 00:20:14,550 --> 00:20:19,177 need to be proactive on the regulation of AI, rather than reactive. 286 00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:22,260 Have you changed your mind on that? No, of course not. 287 00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:26,107 No, of course not. What I'm saying is that there should be 288 00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:30,547 some referees on the field, a few referees, but you shouldn't have a 289 00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:35,197 field jam packed with referees, such that you could not kick a ball in any 290 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,127 direction without hitting one. So the the fields that have been around 291 00:20:39,210 --> 00:20:43,770 for a long time, such as automotive, aerospace, 292 00:20:45,390 --> 00:20:50,220 you know, of the sort of food and drug industries are overregulated. 293 00:20:51,090 --> 00:20:55,597 But the new fields like artificial intelligence, are underregulated. 294 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,680 In fact, there is no regulator at all. So there should be. 295 00:20:59,070 --> 00:21:01,537 You still think that. Yes. 296 00:21:01,620 --> 00:21:05,970 I'm simply saying, which I think is just basic common sense that you want to have 297 00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:08,827 at least you want you want to have a few referees in the field. 298 00:21:08,910 --> 00:21:13,777 You don't want have an army of referees, but you want to have a few referees on 299 00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:19,957 on any given field, in any given sport or any given arena industrial arena to 300 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,000 ensure, help that public safety is taken care of. 301 00:21:24,690 --> 00:21:27,900 But you don't have. So so there's a there's a there's a 302 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:31,327 proper number of referees. But like I said, it's actually very easy 303 00:21:31,410 --> 00:21:33,540 to visualize this when compared to sports. 304 00:21:33,810 --> 00:21:37,620 If the whole field is packed with referees, that would look absurd. 305 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,390 But if there were no referees at all, your game is not going to be as good. 306 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,867 Okay. So let's then talk about your new world, 307 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:52,357 your your role advising government. You are in this unique and unprecedented 308 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,377 position of having billions of dollars worth of contracts with the federal 309 00:21:56,460 --> 00:21:58,610 government yourself, mostly through SpaceX, 310 00:21:59,010 --> 00:22:02,820 and also now an insider's knowledge of it because of DOGE. 311 00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:08,887 Can you see that there is a conflict of interest or a potential conflict of 312 00:22:08,970 --> 00:22:11,620 interest in broad terms, just through that very fact? 313 00:22:13,870 --> 00:22:16,920 I don't think so, actually. There have been many advisors in 314 00:22:17,710 --> 00:22:21,250 throughout history and the U.S. government and others who have had 315 00:22:21,610 --> 00:22:25,660 economic interests. And I am certainly an advisor. 316 00:22:26,020 --> 00:22:32,597 I don't have formal power and that's it. And the president can choose to accept my 317 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,530 advice or not. And that's that's how it goes. 318 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,127 If there's a single contract that any of my companies have ever received that 319 00:22:40,210 --> 00:22:46,427 people think is somehow not was was awarded improperly, it would 320 00:22:46,510 --> 00:22:50,020 immediately be front page news, to say the least. 321 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:54,220 And if I didn't mention it, certainly my competitors would. 322 00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:58,280 So if you're not seeing that then clearly there's not a conflict of interest. 323 00:22:59,260 --> 00:23:02,477 Yeah. There's another way, though, to look at 324 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,617 it that, for example, you have many competitors, whether it's companies like 325 00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:10,127 Boeing or companies who would like to do more of the kind of work you do for 326 00:23:10,210 --> 00:23:16,127 NASA, Blue Origin, Rocket Lab. And because DOGE is in every federal 327 00:23:16,210 --> 00:23:22,727 government department, you or people who work for DOGE, and and you are the 328 00:23:22,810 --> 00:23:28,277 driving force behind it have an insight into those company's affairs and those 329 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:30,960 company's relationships with the federal government. 330 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:38,797 No. All we do is we review the organization to see if the organization 331 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,350 has departments that are no longer relevant 332 00:23:44,580 --> 00:23:49,297 and are and are the contracts that are being awarded good value for money. 333 00:23:49,380 --> 00:23:51,517 In fact, frankly the bar is not particularly high. 334 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,750 Is there any value for money in a contract? 335 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,330 And if there's if there isn't, then we make recommendations to the secretary. 336 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,214 The secretary can then choose to take those actions or not take those actions, 337 00:24:03,298 --> 00:24:07,087 and that's it. And then any action that that that is as 338 00:24:07,170 --> 00:24:12,510 a function of DOGE is posted to the DGOE website and to doge.gov, @DOGE 339 00:24:13,230 --> 00:24:18,337 handle on the X platform. So it's it's complete transparency and I 340 00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:23,347 have not seen any case where to the best of my knowledge there's even been 341 00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:27,990 an accusation of conflict because it is completely and utterly transparent. 342 00:24:29,490 --> 00:24:31,297 That's it. And what about the international 343 00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:33,907 dimension? Now let's think about Starlink. 344 00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:37,147 Starlink has obviously a very, very good internet service. 345 00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:40,747 It's sought after all over the world. It's critical to the frontline in 346 00:24:40,830 --> 00:24:44,677 Ukraine. It has also had more contracts coming 347 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,867 its way. And there is some evidence that 348 00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:51,637 companies are allowing access to it because they want to be close to the 349 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,627 Trump administration and send the right signal. 350 00:24:53,710 --> 00:24:57,367 So Bloomberg broke news today that the South African government is working 351 00:24:57,450 --> 00:25:01,207 around the rules on Black ownership in order to allow Starlink in. 352 00:25:01,290 --> 00:25:06,217 And that is being done on the eve of the visit the president, Ramaphosa, is going 353 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,697 to make to the White House. Do you recognize that as a conflict of 354 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:14,757 interest? No, of course not. First of all, you should be questioning why is there, 355 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,757 why are there racist laws in South Africa? That's the first problem. 356 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,327 That's why you should be attacking. It's improper for there to be racist 357 00:25:21,410 --> 00:25:25,227 laws in South Africa. The whole whole idea with what Nelson 358 00:25:25,310 --> 00:25:29,157 Mandela, who was a great man, proposed, was that all races should be on an equal 359 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,827 footing in South Africa. That's the right thing to do. 360 00:25:31,910 --> 00:25:35,127 Not to replace one set of racist laws with another set of racist laws, which 361 00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:41,157 is utterly wrong and improper. So the that's the that's the deal that 362 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,937 all races should be treated equally and there should be no preference given to 363 00:25:45,020 --> 00:25:48,717 one or the other, whereas there are now 140 laws in South 364 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,830 Africa that give that basically 365 00:25:54,590 --> 00:25:58,767 give strong preference to if you're if you're a Black South African and not 366 00:25:58,850 --> 00:26:01,497 otherwise. And so now I'm in this absurd situation where I 367 00:26:01,580 --> 00:26:05,577 was born in South Africa but can't get a license to operate in Starlink because 368 00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:09,287 I'm not Black. Does that seem right to you? Well, it looks like it that, it 369 00:26:09,370 --> 00:26:11,480 looks like that's about to change. 370 00:26:12,380 --> 00:26:14,540 I just asked you a question. Please answer. 371 00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:17,803 Does that seem right to you? Well, those rules were designed to bring - does 372 00:26:17,886 --> 00:26:19,527 that seem right to you, yes or no? - 373 00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:23,067 those rules were designed to bring about an era of more economic 374 00:26:23,150 --> 00:26:26,997 equality in South Africa. And it looks like the government has 375 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,290 found a way around those rules for you. I asked you a question. 376 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,207 This is this is your interview. Everyone wants to hear from you. 377 00:26:35,290 --> 00:26:37,957 I asked you a question, yes or no? Not for me - Racist laws, yes or no? 378 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,820 Not for me to answer. I have got a question for you about 379 00:26:42,210 --> 00:26:44,670 about your government works and the amount of savings - You must like racist laws 380 00:26:44,753 --> 00:26:49,987 then. Why do you like racist laws? This is not for me to answer. 381 00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:52,747 Come on. Yes it is. Now, you wouldn't be trying to dodge a 382 00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:55,678 question - You have to ask a question - that's difficult for you to answer. 383 00:26:55,761 --> 00:26:59,707 I answered my question, now you answer mine. I think if you, I'm sure you can 384 00:26:59,790 --> 00:27:02,827 have that conversation directly with the South African government if you want to. 385 00:27:02,910 --> 00:27:05,077 I want to ask you about the total. You like racist laws, I can't believe it. 386 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,967 That's not good. I want to ask you about the total amount - 387 00:27:08,050 --> 00:27:11,107 Why do you love racist laws? I want to ask you about the total amount 388 00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:15,187 that you're planning to save through DOGE's work. Sure. Before the election 389 00:27:15,270 --> 00:27:17,760 you said it was going to be at least 2 trillion. 390 00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:23,700 The number currently on doge.gov is 70 billion. 391 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,910 That's a big change. What happened to the 2 trillion? 392 00:27:28,380 --> 00:27:30,367 What you expect it to happen immediately? 393 00:27:30,450 --> 00:27:34,500 Well, is it going to happen because DOGE is supposed to run until next July. 394 00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:38,140 I mean, your question is absurd in its fundamental premise. 395 00:27:38,670 --> 00:27:41,907 Are you assuming that that on day, you know, within a few months, 396 00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:44,467 this is an instant 2 trillion saved? No, I'm not at 397 00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:47,677 all, I'm just asking is that still your aim, then, is it still your aim to get 398 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,487 to 2 trillion? So have we not made good progress given 399 00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:54,847 the amount of time. That's exactly what I'm asking. 400 00:27:54,930 --> 00:27:59,240 So is it still your aim to go from 170 billion to 2 trillion? 401 00:28:00,770 --> 00:28:06,500 Of the the ability of DOGE to operate is a function of whether 402 00:28:07,550 --> 00:28:12,710 the government and this includes the Congress is willing to take our advice. 403 00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:15,607 We're not the dictators of the government. 404 00:28:15,690 --> 00:28:19,687 We are the advisors. And so we can we can advise. 405 00:28:19,770 --> 00:28:22,177 And the progress we've made thus far I think is incredible. 406 00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:29,260 DOGE team has done incredible work, but the magnitude of the savings is 407 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,810 proportionate to the support we get from Congress and from the 408 00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:37,760 executive branch of the government in general. 409 00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:41,487 So, we're not the dictators, we are the 410 00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:46,347 advisors. But thus far, for advisors with the 411 00:28:46,430 --> 00:28:50,000 DOGE team, to their credit, has made 412 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,787 incredible progress. You've talked about $4 billion a day 413 00:28:55,870 --> 00:29:00,066 being saved, but that - that's right - that won't get which is, 414 00:29:00,150 --> 00:29:01,697 and I think everyone can 415 00:29:01,780 --> 00:29:05,567 agree that combating waste and inefficiency in government is a very 416 00:29:05,650 --> 00:29:07,757 good thing. But if you add that up, it's not going 417 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,190 to get to 2 trillion over the lifetime of DOGE. 418 00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:16,180 I'm sorry. The 4 billion. 419 00:29:16,330 --> 00:29:19,907 The 4 billion a day, if DOGE is going to run until next July is not going to get 420 00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:26,847 you to $2 trillion. But you still say it's your aim. 421 00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:31,237 So we'll take that as read. There's, there's, there's, there's, 422 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,620 there's what DOGE, I mean, I feel you're somewhat trapped in the 423 00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:39,940 NPC dialogue tree of a tradition of a journalist. 424 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,667 So it's difficult when I'm conversing with someone who is trapped in the 425 00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:47,900 dialogue tree of a conventional journalist because it's like talking to a computer. 426 00:29:48,610 --> 00:29:53,200 So DOGE is an advisory group. 427 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,770 We are doing the best we can as an advisory group. 428 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,690 The progress made thus far as an advisory group is excellent. 429 00:30:01,150 --> 00:30:03,977 I don't think any advisory group has done better in the history of advisory 430 00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:09,377 groups to the government. Now we are, we do not make the 431 00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:15,640 laws, nor do we control the judiciary, nor do we control the executive branch. 432 00:30:15,910 --> 00:30:19,110 We are simply advisors. In that context, we are doing very well. 433 00:30:20,350 --> 00:30:24,557 Beyond that, we cannot we can't take action beyond that because 434 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,040 we are not sort of some sort of imperial dictator of the government. 435 00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:30,480 There are three branches of government that 436 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,930 are to some degree opposed to that level of cost savings. 437 00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:41,697 But nonetheless, let's let's not criticize whether there's 438 00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:46,072 4 trillion, and instead look at the fact that that 160 billion has been saved 439 00:30:46,155 --> 00:30:50,237 and more will be saved, too. And as I said, I think everyone can 440 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,360 agree that cutting waste and indeed fraud in any government and being 441 00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:58,210 responsible with taxpayers money is a very good thing. 442 00:30:59,430 --> 00:31:02,347 So - Yes - I can see. I can see that you're proud of that 443 00:31:02,430 --> 00:31:06,847 work. I do want to ask you about USAID 444 00:31:06,930 --> 00:31:11,167 and the comments that Bill Gates made the other day, which I and I know 445 00:31:11,250 --> 00:31:13,267 that you called him - Yeah, he's a huge liar. 446 00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:16,700 I know, you've said that already. Yeah, it's terrible. I wondered - 447 00:31:17,730 --> 00:31:21,870 Also - and I'm just - who does Bill Gates think he is to make comments 448 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:27,817 about the welfare of children, given that he frequented Jeffrey Epstein. Okay, 449 00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:32,827 well, he's he's he said he regrets those - 450 00:31:32,910 --> 00:31:38,296 I mean he's not exactly, I wouldn't trust that guy to babysit my kids - and he's 451 00:31:38,380 --> 00:31:40,242 spent, he's spent, he's spent a lot of his own money on philanthropy around the world 452 00:31:40,325 --> 00:31:40,747 over the years. 453 00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:45,727 My question to you is, have you looked at the data to check if he might be 454 00:31:45,810 --> 00:31:51,390 right that the cuts to USAID might cost millions of lives? 455 00:31:53,230 --> 00:31:57,887 Yes, I'd like him to show us any any evidence whatsoever that that is true. 456 00:31:57,970 --> 00:32:02,507 It's false. The what we have found with USAID cuts 457 00:32:02,590 --> 00:32:06,910 and by the way, they haven't all been cut, the parts of USAID that were found to be 458 00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:10,877 even slightly useful, were transferred to the State Department. 459 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,037 So they've not been deleted, they've simply been transferred to the State 460 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:18,440 Department, but many, many times over with USAID and other organizations when 461 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,487 when they said, oh, well, this is going to help, you know, children or it's 462 00:32:22,570 --> 00:32:27,947 going to help some disease eradication or something like 463 00:32:28,030 --> 00:32:29,747 that. And then when we asked for any evidence 464 00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:34,727 whatsoever, I say, well, please connect us with this group of children so we can 465 00:32:34,810 --> 00:32:37,097 talk to them and understand more about their issue, 466 00:32:37,180 --> 00:32:41,427 we get nothing. They don't to even try to prevent, show, 467 00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:46,997 come up with a with a show orphan, meaning like it's sort of like, 468 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,117 well, can we at least see a few kids? Like, where are they? 469 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,100 If they're in trouble, we'd like to talk to them and talk to their caregivers, 470 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,987 and then we can put that thing as a response because it's what we find is an 471 00:33:01,070 --> 00:33:04,120 enormous amount of of fraud and graft. Okay, - And actually - 472 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,099 let me put this example to you - very little. 473 00:33:06,182 --> 00:33:08,927 of it actually gets to the kids, if anything at all. Okay. 474 00:33:09,010 --> 00:33:12,917 Let let me put this example to you, because you grew up in South Africa, so 475 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,637 you will know the impact of HIV AIDS well, and this is why I asked about the 476 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,897 data. The U.S. led on international efforts to combat 477 00:33:20,980 --> 00:33:24,647 HIV, AIDS, treatment, prevention. And there's an initiative called 478 00:33:24,730 --> 00:33:29,777 PEPFAR, which is credited with saving 26 million lives in the last 20 years. 479 00:33:29,860 --> 00:33:33,347 It was part of the foreign aid freeze. Then there was a limited waiver. 480 00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:38,357 The services are disrupted. And UNAIDS says if permanently 481 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:44,560 discontinued, there will be another 4 million AIDS related deaths by 2029. 482 00:33:44,770 --> 00:33:51,767 So if you look at that example, which is backed up by data, in 2023, 630,000 483 00:33:51,850 --> 00:33:56,147 people died of AIDS related illnesses, then perhaps Bill Gates has figures are 484 00:33:56,230 --> 00:33:58,380 not wrong. Millions of lives could be lost. 485 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,520 First of all, the program, the the the AIDS 486 00:34:06,850 --> 00:34:11,980 medication program is continuing. So your fundamental premise is wrong. 487 00:34:12,220 --> 00:34:15,047 It is continuing. Now, do you have another example? - 488 00:34:15,130 --> 00:34:19,397 Not, not, - since the one you cited is false - not, Elon not in its entirety. 489 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,066 This was not in its entirety. What you've cited is false. The program, 490 00:34:23,149 --> 00:34:27,227 there's a limited waiver. And UNAIDS have said that not all of the 491 00:34:27,310 --> 00:34:30,467 services that were previously funded by USAID are continuing. 492 00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:34,050 So that's that's why that's why I put that example to you. Which ones? 493 00:34:34,150 --> 00:34:36,087 Okay. Well, which ones aren't being funded? 494 00:34:36,170 --> 00:34:38,957 I'll fix it right now for. Okay. 495 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,547 Well, actually, they're all on the UNAIDS website, so you'll be able to see 496 00:34:43,630 --> 00:34:45,467 them. Okay what website? But mostly they are to do with, 497 00:34:45,550 --> 00:34:49,480 mostly they are to do with prevention. And for example, the rollout of a drug 498 00:34:50,050 --> 00:34:54,977 called Lenacapavir, which was hailed as one of the biggest breakthroughs against 499 00:34:55,060 --> 00:34:57,167 AIDS for many years, which came out last year. 500 00:34:57,250 --> 00:35:01,277 So if you are perhaps I'm sure UNAIDS, UNAIDS would be delighted if you're able 501 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,477 to look at that again. Yes, but well, if if if in fact this is 502 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,337 true, which I doubt it is, then we'll fix it. 503 00:35:07,420 --> 00:35:09,580 Okay, fine. So 504 00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:13,990 finally, political, your political influence. 505 00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:21,100 I wondered whether you have decided yet how much you're going to spend on the 506 00:35:21,340 --> 00:35:26,057 the upcoming midterms. Is it you've you spent a lot more money 507 00:35:26,140 --> 00:35:28,487 on the last U.S. election than you envisaged when you 508 00:35:28,570 --> 00:35:33,287 were speaking here three years ago, are you going to continue to to spend at 509 00:35:33,370 --> 00:35:38,740 that kind of level on future elections? I think 510 00:35:41,830 --> 00:35:45,700 in terms of political spending, I'm going to do a lot less in the future. 511 00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:50,900 And why is that? I think I've done enough. 512 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,180 Is it, is it because of blowback? 513 00:35:59,020 --> 00:36:02,870 Well, if I see a reason to do political spending in the future, I will do it. 514 00:36:03,010 --> 00:36:07,267 I do not currently see a reason. What about political influence beyond 515 00:36:07,350 --> 00:36:10,177 the U.S.? How often do you speak to President 516 00:36:10,260 --> 00:36:13,660 Putin? I don't speak for President Putin. 517 00:36:15,370 --> 00:36:19,937 You've never spoken to President Putin? I was on a video call 518 00:36:20,020 --> 00:36:24,220 with him once about five years ago. Okay, that's the only time - Why would you think 519 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,860 I speak to President Putin? Oh, you must, 520 00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:30,077 I get it, you believe the legacy media. Actually, I've heard you I've heard you 521 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,717 speak about it. For example, in your West Point speech, 522 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,727 you said, oh, I challenged President Putin to a to, was it an arm wrestle? 523 00:36:37,810 --> 00:36:41,747 And I know The Wall Street Journal is reported your reported conversations, if 524 00:36:41,830 --> 00:36:44,237 you're if you're saying they haven't happened other than once, 525 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,447 I'll take that as read. Is there a worse publication on the face 526 00:36:48,530 --> 00:36:50,087 of the earth than The Wall Street Journal? 527 00:36:50,170 --> 00:36:53,450 I wouldn't use that to line up my cage for parrot droppings. 528 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,660 That that newspaper is the worst newspaper in the world. 529 00:36:59,380 --> 00:37:02,657 And there's, and if you, if there's one newspaper that 530 00:37:02,740 --> 00:37:06,140 should be pro-capitalist, it's the one with Wall Street in the name. 531 00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:11,077 But it isn't, so, I have the very lowest opinion of The Wall 532 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,967 Street Journal. Absolute nonsense. 533 00:37:13,050 --> 00:37:16,117 And you clearly believe the tripe that you've written, that you've read in 534 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:17,587 those papers. I read. 535 00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:21,247 I read very widely, and I'm putting these questions to you so that you have 536 00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:25,147 an opportunity to respond to them, which you are, and and for which we're all 537 00:37:25,230 --> 00:37:27,097 grateful to hear your responses. Okay. 538 00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:31,687 We are we are out of time. So you mentioned, you mentioned, me challenging, 539 00:37:31,770 --> 00:37:36,097 I did so on on the X platform. I challenged Vladimir Putin. 540 00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:40,387 to single combat - Okay - over the, vut I didn't talk to him. 541 00:37:40,470 --> 00:37:44,617 That was a post on the X platform. Great, that's why I asked you and 542 00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:46,867 you've and you've clarified and explain. Thank you. 543 00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:51,120 That's that's why I was asking whether you have had reported conversations and 544 00:37:51,540 --> 00:37:53,324 and you said you haven't other than a video call. Yeah, 545 00:37:53,408 --> 00:37:57,690 the reported the conversations are - typical legacy media lies. Okay. 546 00:37:57,780 --> 00:38:03,067 Listen, I actually thought I might give Grok the last word, because when I asked 547 00:38:03,150 --> 00:38:08,317 Grok what your hardest challenge is, it said the strain of managing multiple 548 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,800 high stake ventures amid financial, regulatory and public relations crises. 549 00:38:14,190 --> 00:38:19,117 And I wondered whether you recognize that characterization and whether you do 550 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,010 think that this is a pivotal year in your life. 551 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,750 Well, every year has been somewhat pivotal. 552 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:33,847 And this one is no different. Um, so I mean, in terms of interesting 553 00:38:33,930 --> 00:38:37,290 things that hopefully are accomplished this year, the 554 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,030 getting starships to 555 00:38:43,230 --> 00:38:47,857 be fully reusable so that the that we catch both the booster and the 556 00:38:47,940 --> 00:38:51,697 ship, which will be the first fully reusable orbital rocket ever in history, 557 00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:55,027 which is would be a profound breakthrough as the essential 558 00:38:55,110 --> 00:38:58,717 breakthrough necessary to make life multi-planetary and ultimately become a 559 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:04,307 spacefaring civilization. We've got Neuralink, which has now helped 560 00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:10,777 five patients restore capability using the telepathy 561 00:39:10,860 --> 00:39:14,310 implants where they're able to control a computer simply by thinking. 562 00:39:15,330 --> 00:39:22,047 We'll be doing our first patient to restore, to 563 00:39:22,130 --> 00:39:26,287 restore sight with our Blindsight implant, which is either end of this year or 564 00:39:26,370 --> 00:39:29,377 early next. In fact, that might that first patient 565 00:39:29,460 --> 00:39:33,097 might be in UAE since we have a relationship with UAE and the Cleveland 566 00:39:33,180 --> 00:39:36,210 Clinic there. 567 00:39:37,860 --> 00:39:42,157 I think what's running on AI fronts, we are close to what you might 568 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:47,040 call AGI or digital superintelligence. 569 00:39:48,930 --> 00:39:51,937 And I think we'll see, we are seeing an explosion in digital 570 00:39:52,020 --> 00:39:55,257 superintelligence here. And then we've got at Tesla, 571 00:39:55,340 --> 00:39:58,057 the, we'll be launching unsupervised 572 00:39:58,140 --> 00:40:01,777 autonomy, basically self-driving cars with no one in them in Austin next 573 00:40:01,860 --> 00:40:04,590 month. So it's it's a big year for sure. 574 00:40:06,410 --> 00:40:09,770 Many other things in the works too. 575 00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:12,710 Okay. I'm a technologist, first and foremost. 576 00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:17,127 Elon Musk, thank you very much for joining us here at Qatar Economic Forum. 577 00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:18,043 Thank you.