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Who cares? >> That's true. The human's
not in the thing makes it unsafe.

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>> So, a lot of pilots, they're not trying
to do the maximally safe thing. They I'm

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not saying pilots are unsafe.
Remember that pilots are working within

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industry constraints. Like, a guy who

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flies a bizjet or a charter helicopter

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operation, he is flying within the same
constraints as a chauffeur, right? He

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You got to approach everything smooth.

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You If something's going wrong,
you don't want it to show until it has to,

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right? You You are not going to want
to take aggressive really aggressive

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evasive maneuvers at the first sign
of trouble. If I'm a robot, that's what

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it's going to do. It's going to see
the first sign of possible trouble and do

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the most evasive action. Your charter
helicopter pilot is not going to do that

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because you're going to get really bad
reviews and you're going to lose your

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job really fast. I think just the way
that you look at these things are very

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different between human pilots and
unmanned pilots. My experience has been

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that a lot of like let's take like
fighter pilots, for example. Yes, they

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love to fly, but more they want to win.

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>> Well, I think I think with our
autonomous systems, it really was like

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seeing is believing, right? Like,
we demonstrated the capability and now

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everyone's on board.
The collision avoidance.

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>> Well, you run the missions and you
run the mission simulations. And also with

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human pilots, you run them in simulators.
You're like, "Okay, let's

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see you not hit the terrain in this
situation, right? Your GPS is out. Look

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at this recent GPS jamming scenario where
where it took out the medevac pilots."

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Like, so put a lot of pilots into
that same situation and they're going to

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they're going to have a they're going
to controlled flight into terrain

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for sure. And maybe a few of them will
avoid it. And then you integrate that

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with some of these safety systems and all
of a sudden every person in the sim

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lives. And I think that does convince
people. We need to show people more of

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that stuff. >> So, I got
a follow-on now. I've seen

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things that work great in the sim, they
work great in a laboratory environment.

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And this is not just autonomy, this can
be sensors. I've done a lot of helmet

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queuing type of things. Work great
in the sim, you get in the real flight

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environment, you get to some of those
edge cases, it's a lot more challenging.

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>> You need to have
exercises that are that

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are realistic and representative of your
actual workflow and workload and then

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ideally overloaded. One of the big flaws
of a lot of exercises, and including

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ones that we're part of is that they
have this nice scripted thing and here's

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how it's all going to go and it's all
very easy. Like you have a bunch of

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beyond visual line of sight engagements.

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Oh, we've picked it up.
We passed the queue and my

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I've got I've got to fire my weapon.

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It's going to pick up the track.

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Great, it all works. Well, what happens
when actually there was a bunch of stuff

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that you didn't expect and now it
is shooting at you. Also, a bunch of your

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support systems are offline.
Maybe you've actually lost some of your

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stability augmentation system in your
rotorcraft. Maybe because it was shot or

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maybe just because the combat cadence
maybe we're in the middle of the third

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week of the war and you haven't been
back to actually get properly maintained

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in 3 weeks and so it's just total
and not working anymore. Like now what

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is it like to do it? Or one of my favorite
ones like I most my daily flyer

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is a Eurocopter EC120. I love I love it.

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I know it's a little underpowered
and I'd rather be flying an MD500 but

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there's things that I like about it.

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>> [laughter] >> Like I
can fly a hydraulics out.

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>> Mhm. >> I really would not want to be
flying a hydraulics out in a high workload

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situation with a lot of other stuff.

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>> in the weather flying at night.

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>> night in the weather or and it worse
maybe at night in the weather and I

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didn't even expect to be at night in
the weather. Right? So or worse, I end up

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overseas and I'm not wearing
my emergency suit and I'm thinking, "Okay,

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what risk do I want to take? How far
like I want to be able to auto rotate to

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the coast if I lose my main power. Maybe
my chip light is on. I know that I've

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only got so much time left on my engine."
Unexpected scenarios should be

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part of these exercises. We should be We
should be putting people into the worst

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case scenarios and then seeing how this
stuff works out. And I'll be honest, a

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lot of our stuff totally fails to work
when you get in those scenarios because

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my guys are computer kids, right?
And like we work we have a lot of veterans

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here and we try to work custom with the
customers to understand these problems

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but it's very easy to develop a system
that works great in the science fair

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project scenario and then you put it
into something real and it all falls

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apart. And so I >> This is why
I'm all about early test. I

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early test as soon as we can when we're
in the design phase so that we can find

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the problems and fix the problems.

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>> That's right. If you wait too long,
sometimes the fixes are just totally

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non-viable. Like to use an extreme
example, what if you were considering

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voice controls and it reads out over
the radio and everyone gets to hear it

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versus a dedicated tablet for controlling
something. What if you find

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out that the tablet's just completely
unworkable in high workload environments?

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The only fix at that point is try
to make the UI on the tablet better. It's

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very hard to say, "Well, that's was 5
years of development down the drain.

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We're just going to rip this out and start
from >> Well, touchscreen is one of those

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examples touchscreen
can be challenging and

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>> I hate touchscreens. They're so bad.

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They're so bad. Don't even get me started.
Steve Jobs, I I like the guy,

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but man, he ruined technology.

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>> I miss my Blackberry. >> Absolutely.

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>> I love tactile feedback. I really do.
I have a whole >> That's a huge thing.

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>> It's so critical. >> It's
the tactile feedback. That's like a

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very specific example of what I'm
talking about. I've got this whole

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anti-Steve Jobs and I remember
I respect Steve Jobs to death.