WEBVTT

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I'm just looking at you. I feel like
the the chaos of India is getting to you.

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It's day two.

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>> It's been a busy two days.

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>> Very warm welcome to Express Ada. Um

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guys, a very special day for us.
Uh Forbes magazine calls OpenAI one of the

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most important companies in the world.

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And the man who is if we look back uh at

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today 20 years from now we'll probably

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uh it I think I'll just wait
for the audience to settle down a bit.

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Okay.

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Okay. Are we settled? Yeah.

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If we look back uh at today, 20 years
from now, I don't think it'll be an

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overstatement to say that the gentleman
in front of me today is probably that

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one person who has made a tectonic shift.
It's anything close to the

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industrial revolution uh probably is the
the gentleman in front of me right now

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who it all probably started with. Is that
is that a fair statement to make, Sam?

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>> No. Um you know,
I think this is generally true

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for many companies. the person running
the company gets way too much credit

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relative to the work everybody else does.
But in our case in particular,

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this has really been a story of a
scientific discovery. There have been a

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handful of researchers that did a

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miracle and figured out uh a very deep

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thing about the way the world works. And

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the thing that is so special about deep

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learning um is what has led it to be so

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general which is that we figured out we

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this small set of researchers figured

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out this algorithm that could learn

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anything and at scale it gets better and

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better and then a whole set of people

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have worked very hard to deliver that
scale on these models and then the whole

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world has figured out how to build
incredible products and services around

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Um but more than anything
this is a story of the scientists.

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>> Yeah. And when you've uh the last time
you were in India to now lot has changed

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in the world but what do you think has

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changed in India with respect to AI

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>> is just a little over a year ago that I
was here. Uh and before talking about

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what's changed in India I think it's
worth talking about what's changed in AI

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because this will ground this. Um a year

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ago AI was just able to do high school

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math.

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And this was incredible. Uh AI could do

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a you know a very good not an excellent
but a very good job at high school

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mathematics and people couldn't believe
it and I was in India. I was speaking an

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event like this and I was talking about
it and people were it had just happened.

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People genuinely felt wonder about it.

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They're like you know this can do what
an 11th grader can do. This is amazing

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cuz only a couple years before that you
know AI couldn't really [clears throat]

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like do any math at all. I couldn't do
grade school math. I was struggling with

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that.

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By last summer, uh it was

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competing at the hardest mathematics

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competitions we had in the in the world

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and doing okay. And last week uh there

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was a new thing called first proof where

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mathematicians put out 10 research
problems uh that were the solutions to

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which were not known and took the our best
our best mathematicians the cutting

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edge of research you know new knowledge
to figure out because it hadn't yet been

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shared and I believe our latest AI got

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seven of those problems right so AI has

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gone from doing okay at high school math
to being able to do new research level

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mathematics figure out new knowledge
it's also happening in physics. And this

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is an amazing change in a year. Um
we've gone from AI that could do what we

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expected a very smart high school

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student to do to pushing the edge of

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human knowledge. Um the other so that's

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change number one. Uh the other change

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is that AI has gone from being able
to write a little bit of programming to

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completely changing what it means to be
a computer programmer. Uh last time I

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was here, people were amazed at these
sort of autocomplete tools for code. And

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now if you type in an idea one
year later if you type in an idea in

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something like codeex you can have an

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entire application created. Um it the

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job of a programmer is now I think
in this last year changed more than it's

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changed in any year that I've been an

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adult. Um codeex is our f
uh India is our fastest

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growing market for codec. So especially
what's happening here to get to the next

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part of the question is really amazing.

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Um the biggest change
that I feel from last

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time I was here is when I was here last
time it felt like India was a consumer

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of AI. People were using these services,

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people were doing other stuff and now uh

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the builder energy in India is off the
charts >> and and and and you in fact said

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something a little controversial last
time. Now it's controversial because at

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that time you said you know you had
painted a picture of despair that you

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know a $10 million fund would not be

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enough to uh you know to build an LLM a

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meaningful LLM uh out of India and now
yesterday we're talking about a full

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stack coming out of India
and India can actually lead an AI so

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>> uh that comment I mean that got taken

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out of context that was a few years ago

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but uh the the comment was not that

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India couldn't do an amazing job with
a $10 million company in a $10 million

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model. Uh I think that clearly is the

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case. It was to Could you make a very
frontier model for $10 million? Um I

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think you couldn't then. I think it's
even more true now that you can't. Um

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>> it's even it's even
more true now that you can't

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>> make a frontier model for 10 million.

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Yeah, that's >> they've
gotten very expensive. Um

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>> but uh if India
want with enough funding

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for sure an Indian company could do that

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and the smaller narrow models that India
is doing are incredible. So is that is

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that surprising to you? Is there is there
anything that's actually surprised

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you between your last trip and this trip
about India and AI that you didn't

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expect in terms of >> um that
stat that I mentioned a couple

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of minutes ago that this is the fastest
growing market for codecs in the world.

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Uh I I'm very happy I guess I shouldn't be

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surprised but it's it's great to see.
I was at IIT Delhi this morning and the

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energy from people building this new
generation of startups um that is a

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place where I expect India
to surprise the world on the upside

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>> and and the obviously the other side
of that coin is the disruption in the jobs

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especially in the IT IT enterprise

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service sector about 8% of our GDP comes

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from that one space um and a lot has

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been said about this in the last 10 days
uh because of Codex before Codex there

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was another claude and it just showed
how fast software has kind of just moved

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out. I know a lot has been said about
in the last week, but I still want you to

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reflect on that. How much of that is
a threat for for India and how should

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India think about that? >> I do
think that is going to change a lot

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and there's going to be a big impact

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there. Uh and I think it is never

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helpful to pretend otherwise. However,

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the what I expect to happen um as has

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happened with every other step forward
in computer programming is people will

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operate at a higher level of abstraction.
They will be able to do

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more people. There will still be a need

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for

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it broadly. Um the amount of product and

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code that's produced will increase a lot.
The expectations will go up. But I

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think as long as the country and the
companies that do this adapt quickly to

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this new world, there will be plenty
of new things to do. I'm I'm not a jobs

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doomer in the sense that I don't think
there will be jobs for people in the

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future. I think there will be a lot of
jobs. Every technological revolution has

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panicked about jobs going away and every
technological revolution has found new

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jobs on the other side. The promised
leisure has never happened. you know,

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this idea that we all get to go
on permanent vacation, that's never quite

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worked out. I don't think it will. Um, I

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hope we get more in that direction, but

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our desire to be useful to each other,

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our desire for more and better stuff,
our desire to express our creativity, we

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never kind of reach the end of that.
I think there is no natural limit to that.

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There's a whole big universe out there
to go explore if we can figure out, you

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know, space travel or whatever. I don't
know where it's going to go. Um but

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[snorts] but I do think
clearly things are going

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to evolve fast and you have to be on
the right side of that and you know that

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that that statement about jobs is a very
lotus statement in India because you

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know 500 million people under the age of

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30. Uh

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you understand the gravity of that uh
of of jobs and that and that that that

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anxiety that that India has. Do you
discuss this when you when you meet the

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prime minister, when you meet people
who matter in in policy? How much of that

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comes up and what are the what are
the answers you have to that anxiety?

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>> Yeah, the the main thing that comes
up with polit the main things that come up

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with political leaders are infrastructure,

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jobs,

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sort of fair distribution of benefits

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and safety broadly speaking. Um and

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those are the proportion of those
is different in different countries and

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also the the level of focus on the
upsides versus the potential downsides

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is different in different countries.

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>> Um

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>> we talk about jobs impact a lot. Uh we

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one version of this that comes up in it

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feels like almost every conversation
I have socially is what should my kids

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study for the future? what should make
it what what's it going to look like?

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Like this is this is a version of asking
that question, you know, where where is

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the economy going to go? >> Um,

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it's really hard to answer that
specifically if you study history. One

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one thing I love to do is to read about

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the history of technology and if you

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look at say the primary source material

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of people that were experiencing
the industrial revolution, there was a lot

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of panic about jobs. There were a lot
of predictions about what the jobs were

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going to be. A lot of fear there
was going to be no jobs and a lot of

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prediction about what the new jobs would
be. They were sort of shockingly wrong.

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And none of them were like, I'm going
to be the CEO of an AI company. Um

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certainly none of them were like, I'm
going to be a YouTube influencer. Uh so

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I I think this is very hard to predict,
but the skills that will work no matter

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what. >> Yeah.
fluency with AI tools, resilience,

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adaptability, figuring out what you know
people are going to want and how to be

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useful to them. Uh how to work with

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other people. These these are all very

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good things to learn. And uh

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yeah, I think it's useless to pretend

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there won't be a big change. The change

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won't be as fast as some people in the

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AI industry predict because society's

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always got more inertia and it always

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takes longer. But eventually the change

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will be huge and we'll find
all sorts of new things to do.

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I want to come back to that a little
later about where that resistance you

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think will come from that inertia
of society does it come more from the

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developed economies or from the from
the underdeveloped economies but I before

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that a little bit more about India and

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AI that five layer cake that Jensen

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spoke about the whole AI stack um the

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energy the data centers the chips the
models and the applications that entire

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five layer cake which areas do you think
India has the ability and the right to

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win in and which areas do you think it's

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just a very risky bet for India to to

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kind of make

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>> I I think India should you know
whether you subscribe to it's a

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five layer cake or a seven layer
cake people define it a little bit

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differently um but I think India should

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play at all of those levels uh I think

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that there are

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there are important advantages
to vertical integration and being able to

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work across all those levels for an
economy me of the size and importance of

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India's is a good thing to do and uh
yeah I talked with the prime minister

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just before coming here he is certainly
motivated to uh to play at all of those

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levels and I think it's important >>
and if we do play at all those levels

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and you know you're talking about more
than 70% of the population already on

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the internet I don't know what
percentage of that you you estimate is

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on is doing artificial intelligence
but assuming we want a lot of that to move

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into the AI domain and that's a big
change last time you were here a lot of

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fear and anxiety about AI Now we're all
about let's embrace it and let's kind of

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run with it. Um does the world have the

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computing power it needs for India to

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become an AI first society?

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>> Not yet. But the world is rapidly going
to have to work together to solve that

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problem. Um a question I love to ask

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people is how many GPUs would you like

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working for you all the time? How many
GPUs would you personally like thinking

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about your problems, helping you
with your work, coming, you know,

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implementing your ideas, writing
the software you want, operating the, you

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know, humanoid robots you'll have in
your home and garden and everything else

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and, you know, building new houses for
your whatever. Like, how how many do you

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want? And people give different answers.

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No one ever says less than one. Some

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people say a thousand. I would like a

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thousand. Um,

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if you go multiply that out and say

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there's 8 billion people in the world,

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we have no way to deliver 8 trillion
GPUs anytime soon. I mean, that just

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seems ridiculous. Yeah, >> we're
not going to do that to be clear.

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We're not going to do
that on Earth at least. Um,

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but I do think it shows the as it points
to the level of ambition we need to have

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about how much compute capacity we're

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going to build out. And this will be the

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most expensive, complex

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infrastructure project the world has
ever collectively taken on for all of

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our welfare. Um, so we're going to need

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a lot of compute capacity. The good
news, it would be impossible to build

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this out the oldfashioned way, but we'll
have AI and robots helping us do this

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and you know, we'll figure it out.

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>> And and is that why space keeps coming
up nowadays? There's another space race,

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but >> that I keep hearing about.

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>> I honestly think the idea with the

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current landscape of putting data

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centers in space is ridiculous.

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It will make sense someday. [applause]

00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:27.277
But if if you just do like the very

00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.277
rough math of launch costs relative to

00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:35.357
the cost of power we can do on Earth to
say nothing of how you're going to fix a

00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:37.197
broken GPU in space and they do break a

00:14:37.280 --> 00:14:40.157
lot still unfortunately. Um we are not

00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:43.277
there yet. There will come a time space

00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:47.277
is great for a lot of things. Orbital
data centers are not something that's

00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:49.677
going to matter at scale this decade.

00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:53.117
But then all this infrastructure
buildout Sam it feels like it kind of

00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:57.517
forces you organizations like yours
to have a very intimate relationship with

00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:01.357
government and is that something that's
kind of changing with AI this whole

00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.237
power structure that you know now the at

00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:09.197
one point big tech was a very a very
privatized force uh with a very

00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:12.157
complicated relationship with government
now it seems to be that you need to have

00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.317
a good relationship with government
whether it's Indian companies with

00:15:14.400 --> 00:15:18.157
Indian government or companies like
yours with the with the US government is

00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.517
the government a big enabler Yeah,
I think it's going to be really

00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.717
important not not just for building out
infrastructure, but just given the the

00:15:24.800 --> 00:15:28.477
level of impact this is going to have
on society and the need to truly

00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:31.997
democratize this technology. Governments
are going to have to be involved and

00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:34.317
companies like ours are going
to have to partner with governments.

00:15:34.400 --> 00:15:37.997
>> And how was that? I mean, have you ever
thought of paused and thought about that

00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:42.237
evolution of that relationship between
big tech and uh and government? By the

00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:43.917
way, can I call you big tech or not?

00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.877
Really? I don't think most
I don't feel like big tech.

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.117
>> Okay. >> I don't think we're there yet.

00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.357
>> Okay. All right.
But tech companies like

00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:58.317
yours and government, I mean, >> um,

00:15:58.400 --> 00:16:00.317
I I I

00:16:00.400 --> 00:16:06.120
think the tech industry
started out as this extremely

00:16:06.880 --> 00:16:09.997
libertarian, you know, we don't need the
government, the government doesn't need

00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.197
us sort of view. That has changed a lot.

00:16:13.280 --> 00:16:17.357
Even before AI, like the last couple
of decades as the companies got bigger and

00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.837
more central to the economy and the way

00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:21.997
the whole world works, that's changed

00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.037
significantly. Um,

00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:29.517
but maybe never before has it been
this important just given the scale of the

00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:31.357
infrastructure that needs to happen.

00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.797
>> And how do you feel about that? Because
we, you know, one of the theories, one

00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:38.637
of the things we keep hearing
is that this White House is very close to

00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:42.717
Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley was very
close sponsor of JD Vance. That whole

00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:45.277
relationship is a very intimate one. Has

00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.677
is that is that true? Is that good? Is

00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:50.957
that bad? I would say close in some ways

00:16:51.040 --> 00:16:55.037
and not not close in others. You know,
there there are some tight ties and then

00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.037
also this administration has had some

00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:01.517
big criticisms of tech. Uh and

00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.277
is that good or bad? Uh I think a close

00:17:05.360 --> 00:17:09.357
cooperation between tech companies
and the government is going to become

00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.517
increasingly important over time. Um
it obviously won't be a perfectly smooth

00:17:13.600 --> 00:17:17.757
relationship but the better it can
be I think the better for all of us.

00:17:17.840 --> 00:17:20.317
>> And and what about
government-to-government relationships?

00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.077
You know what what got announced today

00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.837
was um very interesting partnership of

00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:27.597
several countries who are thinking about

00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.597
AI in a very advanced way. Is it the all

00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:33.357
these countries versus China? Is that

00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:37.197
what's kind of playing out or is it are

00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:40.717
we all kind of in a race and somewhere
China is also in that race?

00:17:40.800 --> 00:17:42.637
>> I suspect it'll turn out to be way more

00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.877
complex than that. I think it will shift

00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:49.757
over time. Uh there

00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:54.157
I do sort of think that AI will become

00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.197
one of the most important political
issues in the world. one of the highest

00:17:57.280 --> 00:18:00.237
order bits of geopolitical

00:18:00.320 --> 00:18:02.957
tension and cooperation.

00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:05.757
But I I don't think it'll be a fixed

00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:10.237
thing. I think as it develops and as I
mean this has always happened that sort

00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:12.317
of political alliances shift over time.

00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:16.797
I expect them to shift more in the
future uh not less as things move

00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:21.757
faster. >> But what is how do
you think about China in all of

00:18:21.840 --> 00:18:25.917
this? I mean, you know, we keep hearing
that China's leap years ahead and

00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.037
China's got all this energy and China's
got all this renewable energy and

00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:33.437
China's got all this robotics and all
this technology. Uh, are we hearing the

00:18:33.520 --> 00:18:36.797
right thing and why are they
leapers ahead? What have they done?

00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.717
>> I would say very ahead in some areas
and not ahead in others. I I think this is

00:18:40.800 --> 00:18:43.907
like I mean that sounds like a boring
statement that's probably always

00:18:43.990 --> 00:18:45.837
[laughter] >> always true
in the world like in terms

00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.517
of manufacturing physical
robots clearly ahead

00:18:49.600 --> 00:18:51.597
>> a big edge on things like electric

00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:55.837
motors, magnets, stuff like that. um

00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:01.357
clearly ahead on energy buildout.
Uh so there are places where China is

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.077
significantly ahead of other countries
and then there's places where I think

00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.357
we're ahead of them and my guess is that

00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.277
that's sort of always what it's been
like and what it will continue to be

00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:14.157
like. It's hard to be ahead
on everything or behind on everything.

00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:16.877
Maybe if you have like the only super
intelligence in the world, you could do

00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:19.757
it. I think that would actually
be bad for other reasons.

00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:23.357
>> But is it a race, Sam? I mean it it it

00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.037
we keep framing it
as a race >> sort of. Uh

00:19:27.120 --> 00:19:29.757
>> is it a collaborative
journey or is it a race or

00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:33.357
>> Yeah, I mean both. That's like the hard
part of this, right? There's always

00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.037
>> there are always ways in which
the global economy is interdependent and

00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:40.637
very collaborative and then there's
always ways in which it's a competition.

00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:45.357
And it's so tempting
to say it's all one or

00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.517
the other. Reality is always
messier than that. Um,

00:19:49.600 --> 00:19:52.237
but I do think it's important to look at

00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:54.477
the net

00:19:54.560 --> 00:19:56.877
differences in power and the impact that

00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.437
could have. Um,

00:19:59.520 --> 00:20:01.517
and I think it's, you know, really

00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:05.197
important that democracy leads with AI.

00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:08.237
>> And when you say democracy leads with
AI, you mean China should not lead with

00:20:08.320 --> 00:20:11.837
AI. >> Um,

00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:15.837
it was a little bit more nuanced of a
comment than that, but if you want to

00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:19.997
reduce it to that. No, because in in in
your speech yesterday, you mentioned uh

00:20:20.080 --> 00:20:23.757
authoritarian, you know, a couple
of times. So, I'm just kind of, you know,

00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:26.237
how do we think about China?
How do we unpack China?

00:20:26.320 --> 00:20:27.837
>> What I meant more
is I don't think there

00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.437
should be any single super intelligence
in the world. I don't think there should

00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:34.557
be any one person or any one country
or anyone company in charge of super

00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:38.157
intelligence, including the United States.
I think that would also be bad.

00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.157
Um,

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.277
I think the world is at its best when

00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:47.677
power is widely distributed, when people
have a lot of different ideas, and when

00:20:47.760 --> 00:20:50.077
there's enough of a balance in power

00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:55.117
that we can all we countries,
individuals, companies, whatever, sort

00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.357
of keep each other in check and all have
input and over time, even though we'll

00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.957
do some dumb things along the way,
you know, people kind of get to pick the

00:21:03.040 --> 00:21:05.997
best ideas and let those rise up. So

00:21:06.080 --> 00:21:08.637
what I meant by authoritarian here is

00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:13.837
you don't literally want one AI
in charge of the world no matter who has

00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.117
it. I think that would be bad.

00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:17.037
>> Yeah. And do you
think if you compare to

00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:20.957
the big tech era of 7 years ago uh AI is

00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:24.397
going to fragment power more or is it
going to concentrated more because it

00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.157
seems to be that big tech the old big

00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.037
tech is equally sort of staying uh you

00:21:29.120 --> 00:21:34.157
know staying is keeping pace.
That's a good that is at some point it's

00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.277
in some sense I think one of the most
important questions in front of us right

00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:40.317
now. You can totally imagine a world

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.037
where AI massively concentrates power

00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:45.437
where say a single company or country is

00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:49.757
able to hold on to AI and use that to

00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:51.677
amass a gigantic amount of power and

00:21:51.760 --> 00:21:53.997
wealth in the world. You can imagine

00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:57.037
another extreme where everybody on earth

00:21:57.120 --> 00:21:58.877
has a super intelligence with no rules

00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:01.677
whatsoever and you know some pretty

00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:05.517
terrible things and chaos happen. Um

00:22:05.600 --> 00:22:07.597
you can imagine many worlds there in the

00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.797
middle. I personally think something way

00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.717
more towards the democratized version
of that is good. We of course will need

00:22:14.800 --> 00:22:18.397
some regulation. We of course will need
some guardrails. But I think putting

00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.157
this technology in the hands of lots of

00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:23.757
people is possible. And that will be a

00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:27.517
decentralization of economic power. The

00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:30.397
the clearest example of this you can see

00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:34.557
uh is in the last six and especially 3

00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.917
months the power that a one or two or

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.557
three person company can have.

00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.037
This just didn't happen uh a few years

00:22:43.120 --> 00:22:47.677
ago. It was impossible.
In this new world of things like codecs

00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:49.517
and general purpose knowledge working

00:22:49.600 --> 00:22:52.077
agents um we're going to have to get

00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.357
used very quickly to one person startups

00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.997
that have enormous amounts of success
or two person three person startups and I

00:23:00.080 --> 00:23:03.597
think this is great. >> Yeah.
And how competitive is how

00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:05.997
competitive is all of this from your

00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:07.757
seat? I mean, you know, we saw a little

00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:11.997
awkward moment uh on stage yesterday. Um

00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:15.357
there was several memes
about it going around, but

00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.597
>> you got to give the internet
something to laugh at.

00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.397
>> Um [laughter] it is definitely
competitive, but I will

00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.837
say that I think >> it's also
very incestuous. I mean, you

00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.557
guys because all you know, a lot
of people were building out stuff or

00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:30.797
working with you at one point
and everybody knows everybody and

00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.077
everybody's like Nvidia's investing in
you. you're buying Nvidia chips and then

00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.917
you it's just the small >> it
is a weirdly small world for sure.

00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:43.117
>> Um I think it's very competitive
commercially but almost all of the

00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.517
efforts that have a very
advanced model I think

00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:52.237
fuel the gravity of what's happening
and they're very committed to getting

00:23:52.320 --> 00:23:56.877
uh safety and alignment right
and willing to cooperate there.

00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.757
>> A little bit more about what happened
yesterday if you want to share this is a

00:23:59.840 --> 00:24:03.997
good opportunity. I I don't
really have that much more to add.

00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:07.197
>> I won't push it. Okay. Uh, you know,
there's just so much to cover, Sam, and

00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:10.797
I learned so much. I I'm very grateful
for you because I learned so much prep

00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:14.957
to prep for this conversation. I
was like 3 days of just like deep into it.

00:24:15.040 --> 00:24:17.437
So, I thought I'll just kind
of break it up into a game. Great.

00:24:17.520 --> 00:24:18.797
>> And we can get,
you know, I can just try

00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.717
to cover more and more stuff rather than
having a conversation about it. Um, and

00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:26.877
we'll see what we kind of do. So, it's
not a rapid fire because it's just too

00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:28.557
long to be a rapid fire. And I tried to

00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:32.237
make it shorter, but I couldn't. Um,

00:24:32.320 --> 00:24:34.317
is there any one thing you admire about

00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:36.717
Google's catchup in the AI race? Because

00:24:36.800 --> 00:24:39.837
10 years ago they were out of the water.

00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:44.477
>> Well, 10 years ago, 10 years ago,
Google was the only serious AI effort.

00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:47.597
>> Five years ago, maybe >> um

00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.397
maybe 3 years ago when we launched

00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.277
Chachi BT, they were then way out of it.

00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:55.757
But the the first thing I admire about

00:24:55.840 --> 00:25:01.037
Google is Demis and the Google team
started working on AI before anyone else

00:25:01.120 --> 00:25:05.677
in the modern era with a lot
of conviction and uh you know I think

00:25:05.760 --> 00:25:09.837
without their inspiration we certainly
wouldn't be here. So that's one thing I

00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:11.677
admire and then a second thing more

00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:16.077
recently is their relentless focus and

00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:20.237
execution and ability to really scale
the model after being pretty far behind

00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:23.757
is quite impressive. >> Okay.
Were you surprised when Apple

00:25:23.840 --> 00:25:26.957
partnered with Google for Siri?

00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:30.957
>> Not particularly. >> Okay.
The one country that is by and

00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:36.760
large on the right path
for regulation on AI.

00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:42.157
>> I don't think any of us know the answer
to that yet. A thing that I'm happy

00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.637
about is countries are trying different
approaches and I think this is a good

00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:50.557
thing about many sovereign powers in the
world. We will get to observe over the

00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.277
next few years very different approaches

00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:56.557
and see what works and what doesn't and

00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.397
pretty quickly I believe the world will
move towards more of what works. But I'm

00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.117
grateful for the experimentation
and different countries trying different

00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.477
things. >> Okay.
So short game that I'll give you

00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:09.837
some criticisms of AI and you give
me a short defense of each of these

00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.117
criticisms. So the first >> I
might not have one for some. That's

00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.237
fine. And and there's so many questions

00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:18.717
that you can always duck or pass. um too

00:26:18.800 --> 00:26:22.077
much concentration of power

00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:26.317
>> fair unless we push super hard
to democratize and I think everyone in the

00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.797
world needs to hold countries and
companies to this threshold of you don't

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.637
get to say concentration of power in the
name of safety we don't want that trade

00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:39.197
it's got to be democratized >> okay
uh the amount of natural resources

00:26:39.280 --> 00:26:40.637
that are going into these data centers

00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.437
the amount of water the amount of

00:26:43.520 --> 00:26:48.157
>> water is totally fake uh it used to be
True. We used to do evaporative cooling

00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:51.597
in data centers, but now that we don't
do that, you know, you see these like

00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.757
things on the internet where don't use
chatbt, it's 17 gallons of water for

00:26:55.840 --> 00:26:57.997
each query or whatever. This is

00:26:58.080 --> 00:27:00.797
completely untrue. Totally insane. No,

00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.197
no connection to reality. What is fair

00:27:03.280 --> 00:27:05.837
though is the energy consumption not per

00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.077
query but in total because the world is

00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.997
now using so much AI is real and we need

00:27:12.080 --> 00:27:15.037
to move towards nuclear or wind and

00:27:15.120 --> 00:27:19.517
solar very quickly. There was a you know
we had Bill Gates last year and I asked

00:27:19.600 --> 00:27:22.397
him this question and he gave a very
interesting statistic. At that time

00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:24.557
apparently we calculated that there were

00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:29.677
10 iPhone worth of battery would go
for every chat GPT query and now it's come

00:27:29.760 --> 00:27:33.437
down to one iPhone or one and a half
iPhone battery life worth of energy for

00:27:33.520 --> 00:27:34.957
every chat GPT query. Is that correct?

00:27:35.040 --> 00:27:37.517
>> There's no way it's
anything close to that much.

00:27:37.600 --> 00:27:39.997
>> It's much less than that.
>> Way way way less.

00:27:40.080 --> 00:27:42.877
>> Okay. All right. But but his theory was

00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.597
that that the AIs will learn from human

00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:51.320
evolution to be more efficient
and how how much energy they consume.

00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.237
>> One of the things that is always unfair
in this comparison is people talk about

00:27:56.320 --> 00:27:58.477
how much energy it takes to train an AI

00:27:58.560 --> 00:28:03.757
model relative to how much it costs
a human to do one inference query. But it

00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:07.677
also takes a lot of energy to train
a human. takes like 20 years of life and

00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:11.837
all of the food you eat during that time
before you get smart. And not only that,

00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.037
it took like the very widespread
evolution of the hundred billion people

00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:18.717
that have ever lived and learned not
to get eaten by predators and learned how

00:28:18.800 --> 00:28:21.837
to like figure out science and whatever
to produce you and then you took

00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.077
whatever you you know you took. So the

00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:29.117
fair comparison is if you ask chat
a question, how much energy does it take

00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:30.797
once its model is trained to answer that

00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.797
question versus a human? And probably AI

00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.917
has already caught up on an energy
efficiency basis. Measure it that way.

00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:44.600
>> Wow. Okay. Fantastic.
AI is making my kids dumber.

00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:51.160
>> True for some kids. Um,

00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:57.837
look, when I

00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.797
when I hear kids talk about AI, uh,

00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:05.917
there are definitely some kids who are
like, "This is great. I cheated my way

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.917
through all of high school. I never did
any homework. Thank you." And I'm like,

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:13.997
"What's your plan for like the rest
of your life?" And they're like, "Well, I

00:29:14.080 --> 00:29:16.077
assume I can like still use CHB to do my

00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:19.517
job. this is very bad. Um, we absolutely

00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:23.677
have to still teach our kids to to learn

00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:25.197
and to think and to be creative and to

00:29:25.280 --> 00:29:27.837
use these tools. That's not what most

00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:31.677
kids say, though. Most kids say, uh, I

00:29:31.760 --> 00:29:33.677
can't believe what I can accomplish now.

00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:37.277
Um, look at this thing that I've just
made. I've built these incredible new

00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:42.797
workflows. You know, sure, like I may
use Chat GBT and the way you use Google

00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:46.477
when you were in high school to help
with your homework. Um, but now that I

00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:50.717
have this new tool, I'm doing these
amazing things. I think we will need to

00:29:50.800 --> 00:29:55.037
find new ways to teach and evaluate in
school to make sure every kid is brought

00:29:55.120 --> 00:29:57.117
along. But the potential of this

00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:59.837
technology, the ability to learn more,

00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:02.557
do more. I have no doubt about that. Um,

00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:07.677
when I was in school,
Google had just come out and uh

00:30:07.760 --> 00:30:10.877
the like my middle school teacher
was like, "This is the worst thing ever."

00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:15.357
You know, there's no point to teaching
anymore. Why do you have to memorize,

00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.317
you know, the date that someone
in history was born if you could just look

00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.077
it up on Google? And my answer was,
I think it's a complete waste of time to

00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.197
memorize what year someone was born.
I will just go look that up on Google if I

00:30:25.280 --> 00:30:29.277
ever need to know it again, which
usually you don't that often. And then I

00:30:29.360 --> 00:30:32.477
watched over the next few years,
teachers come to peace with this, the

00:30:32.560 --> 00:30:36.077
education system evolve. And like always

00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.557
happens with new tools, the

00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:44.557
the potential goes up and expectations
go up. And we'll have to teach people to

00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.317
think harder, create more, and you know,
I'm pretty sure that like a kid born

00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:51.997
today when they're 18, graduating high
school will be able to do things that no

00:30:52.080 --> 00:30:55.197
one today can. And I think that's great.

00:30:55.280 --> 00:30:58.397
The other criticism is that it's just
not a democratic enough as in the people

00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.837
who want to pause AI don't have a voice.

00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:06.877
Uh and I want to take this double click
on this on this question is that where

00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.477
do you see the resistance coming from?

00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:12.477
Uh is it coming from the people who have
experienced technology at its highest

00:31:12.560 --> 00:31:16.157
levels and then they say we're nervous
we want to pause or do you see the

00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:18.717
resistance coming from those who have
never experienced and are nervous to

00:31:18.800 --> 00:31:20.877
experience and then they feel the the

00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.197
vulnerability?

00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:26.797
I I mean it kind of comes from parts of

00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.957
it come from everywhere. Although
as more people use the technology, I think

00:31:31.040 --> 00:31:32.717
there's less of a let's totally pause

00:31:32.800 --> 00:31:36.877
it. People like it and there's more of a

00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:40.637
what is this going to mean? Can we have
more of a voice? Can this go a little

00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.397
more slowly? >> Okay.
The one thing Silicon Valley

00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.037
should learn from Chinese technology.

00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:50.397
>> Move fast. Okay. The one thing Silicon

00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:53.037
Valley can learn from Indian technology.

00:31:53.120 --> 00:31:55.917
>> Move faster.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:02.840
The one real and one imagined
fear of Chinese dominance in AI.

00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:09.437
I I think the imagined fear is that,
you know, the Chinese military is going to

00:32:09.520 --> 00:32:13.117
send a billion humanoid robots marching
through the streets and overpower the US

00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.197
army or something like that.

00:32:15.280 --> 00:32:20.637
And the real fear is and and I think
that's like an example of fighting the

00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.157
last war and thinking it's going to be
the same. I think the real fear is a new

00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.437
kind of war between nations that gets
fought over the internet where you

00:32:27.520 --> 00:32:30.717
influence people and hack into a bunch
of critical infrastructure and that

00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:35.117
feels totally possible. That's
a very scary uh reality where we say

00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:37.117
surveillance state all those kind of

00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:42.600
things you don't >> super
worried about that um

00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:46.317
I think increasingly so people are using

00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:49.037
fear of AI going wrong to justify a

00:32:49.120 --> 00:32:54.317
surveillance state and I don't
think that people doing that

00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:56.877
have fully thought through
the downsides of the surveillance state.

00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:00.717
>> Yeah. Okay. Um, you urgently need to

00:33:00.800 --> 00:33:03.917
look at you you urgently need to look
look something up. Your phone is

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:08.317
discharged. You borrow my phone.
The letter T on my type on my touchpad

00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.107
doesn't work. So, you can only key
in Grock, Claw, Gemini, or Deep Seek.

00:33:13.190 --> 00:33:15.210
[laughter]

00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.957
>> I guess if I have to look
something up, I pick Gemini.

00:33:19.040 --> 00:33:22.477
>> Okay. All right. Um, the for other

00:33:22.560 --> 00:33:23.837
things, I'd pick other models.

00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.997
>> Okay. the most compelling reason you
have moved from a not for-p profofit to

00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:32.157
a cap profit to pretty much
any revenue including ads.

00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.557
>> Um

00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:39.277
the need to democratize AI and the need
to stay at the forefront of research

00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:42.317
both of those require
huge amounts of capital.

00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:45.597
>> And do you think you're research first

00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.197
company or a product first company?

00:33:47.280 --> 00:33:49.597
>> Research first company. Uh the coolest

00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:54.237
thing about AI I think is that the great
majority of making a good product is

00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:57.997
doing good research. We make a great
model, the product is already is pretty

00:33:58.080 --> 00:34:02.317
good. The early version of chatbt was
almost no product at all. It was like a

00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:06.077
text box that fed into a model and then
put the output on the screen. So

00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:09.837
research to continue to push what
a model is capable of is what enables

00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:10.877
everything else.

00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.077
>> Okay. The one criticism about you that

00:34:14.160 --> 00:34:17.357
bothers you when you hear it?

00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:21.277
>> Yeah. I've heard
basically like every possible

00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:25.197
criticism and at some point none of them
bother you because you're just like this

00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.077
gotten so insane, so detached from truth.

00:34:28.160 --> 00:34:30.557
>> Um

00:34:30.640 --> 00:34:34.157
I guess the one that

00:34:34.240 --> 00:34:38.157
makes me the most sad is that like he's
just doing it for the power. He doesn't

00:34:38.240 --> 00:34:40.557
really care about sort of trying to do
something that's going to be helpful to

00:34:40.640 --> 00:34:43.277
the world. >> What what
were you thinking when you

00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:47.357
when you decided not to take any equity
in OpenAI? what what what was going in

00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:49.517
your mind at that time >> that
that was truly one of the dumbest

00:34:49.600 --> 00:34:51.917
thing as I say this as [laughter]
someone who's made a lot of dumb

00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.557
decisions. Um the conspiracy theories

00:34:54.640 --> 00:34:57.197
that that brought about like the one I

00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:01.837
just mentioned uh it was totally not
worth it. We were like a nonprofit. I,

00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.397
you know, there was like a kind of quirk
of it where to be on the board of a

00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:11.357
nonprofit, you had to like be sort
of disinterested. And I had been like very

00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:12.797
fortunate to have a successful career.

00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.997
And I was like, I don't really care here
either way. But it was a very dumb thing.

00:35:16.080 --> 00:35:19.277
>> And if somebody today were to offer and
figure out a way for you to get into the

00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:22.717
cap table with Fred equity,
would you take it?

00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:26.957
>> I mean, at this point, I feel like
so tired of the whole conversation and so

00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:28.317
trapped, I'm not sure what to do.

00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:30.237
>> Okay. It's like
a lose-lose thing for me.

00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:34.797
>> Okay. Um, so one thing in spite of all
the differences you have with Elon Musk,

00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.317
the one thing you the one
thing you admire about him.

00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.237
>> Is there any one thing you
can put all the difference?

00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:44.760
>> No, I'm going to think
of something, but give me a minute.

00:35:46.560 --> 00:35:50.477
>> He's he's extremely good at

00:35:50.560 --> 00:35:54.397
physical engineering and also extremely
good at getting people to perform

00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.477
incredibly well at their jobs.

00:35:56.560 --> 00:36:00.237
>> Okay. Super. Okay. Um, Chad Gubet does

00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.597
is not known for its opinions. It's
known for giving facts and and factful

00:36:03.680 --> 00:36:06.797
answers back. So, I'm going to ask your
opinion on the news. There've been a lot

00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:11.277
of stuff in the news the last week. So,
we want your views on would you support

00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:17.320
the governmentordered ban
on social media for kids under 16.

00:36:18.080 --> 00:36:19.597
Uh, I don't know if a total ban is

00:36:19.680 --> 00:36:22.717
right. Maybe it is. Uh, I think at least

00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:26.877
heavy restrictions would be good. I

00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:30.797
I have a young child. I'm more
interested in the what I think are the

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.557
very negative impacts of infinite

00:36:32.640 --> 00:36:37.357
scroll. Um I would like my kid not to

00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:42.317
just be one of those iPad kids going
like this all of the time. So that seems

00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.477
very important. But yeah, probably
social media for kids is something we

00:36:46.560 --> 00:36:47.837
have to be very careful with.

00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:51.677
>> Okay, it seems the clouds of war are

00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.557
again upon us. a lot of talk about in in

00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:58.877
Iran. Um, if government were to ask to

00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:02.397
use AI companies like yours to help

00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:05.597
figure out how to get into war, how do

00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:10.237
you how would you how do you respond? Is
Pentagon just another client for you and

00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:11.757
you know you're the they're the

00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:13.437
customer, you do what they ask, or do

00:37:13.520 --> 00:37:18.317
you draw a line somewhere? Um,

00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:23.597
I don't think AI systems
should be used to make

00:37:23.680 --> 00:37:26.557
a AI systems should be used to make
warfighting decisions. I don't think

00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:30.397
they're at a level of sophistication
and reliability where this is a good idea.

00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:34.957
That said, like we certainly want
to support the government and uh there's a

00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:38.797
lot of things we can do already.
Um, someday there will be, I think,

00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:43.757
applications of this, really important
applications of this to defense. Um, but

00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.957
right now the models
have clear limitations.

00:37:47.040 --> 00:37:50.317
>> It was used in for Maduro's capture,
I believe. Is that is that true? Is that

00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.757
true? >> I No, I I just
don't know. Like I I'm

00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:57.917
sure it was used in some ways. There
are things that AI can do a great job of

00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:02.557
today. Like I think using AI to analyze
a huge amount of intelligence reports

00:38:02.640 --> 00:38:05.517
probably a great use of AI and maybe
it was used some way like that.

00:38:05.600 --> 00:38:09.917
>> Yeah. Your views on Claude safety
chief Mang Sharma's dramatic resonation. I

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:12.637
don't know if you followed that but it
made a lot of news. I heard something

00:38:12.720 --> 00:38:16.397
about it. >> Okay.
>> Like they they resigned and like a

00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:19.037
letter about it's all
useless or something.

00:38:19.120 --> 00:38:21.757
>> Yeah. World's going to go to hell.
I want to go write poetry. It was that

00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:26.397
that direction. And >> I just
a a lot of safety people are are

00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:29.517
getting I think overwhelmed. I mean
that's the real piece that I wanted you

00:38:29.600 --> 00:38:32.920
to reflect on.

00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.997
The part of it I agree with is the

00:38:36.080 --> 00:38:40.557
inside view at the companies of looking
what's going to happen. Like the world

00:38:40.640 --> 00:38:44.957
is not prepared. We're going to have
extremely capable models soon. It's

00:38:45.040 --> 00:38:49.437
going to be a faster takeoff than I
originally thought and that is stressful

00:38:49.520 --> 00:38:53.757
and anxietyinducing. >> Okay.
Uh reflect a bit on the future.

00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:57.757
The future of love and relationships.
We keep hearing of people using AI agents

00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:00.637
to to open up conversations on dating

00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:05.757
apps. Um, how much of authenticity are
we losing with love and relationships or

00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.117
how much of it does it come into?

00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:11.837
>> Um, my bet would be that in the future
we value human relationships much more.

00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:16.317
I think we are wired to do that. There
will be some people who will like fall

00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:20.077
in love with an AI or talk about their AI
boyfriend or girlfriend or have AI

00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:24.237
like you know send messages on dating
apps for them that there will be some

00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:27.117
small percentage of the world that
does that and there will be a lot of

00:39:27.200 --> 00:39:31.597
breathless articles written about
the end of society and all of that but I

00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:35.437
think for almost everyone in a world
with more abundance in a world where you

00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:39.997
can kind of have anything human
connection human attention human warmth

00:39:40.080 --> 00:39:44.717
will be one of the most valuable
commodities and we will I bet we will

00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.117
care much more about
that in a world with AI.

00:39:47.200 --> 00:39:50.557
>> Okay. You've invested in over 400
companies. Is that I don't know if

00:39:50.640 --> 00:39:54.157
that's accurate or >> I mean
counting and Y common air like 3,000.

00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:58.237
>> Wow. Okay. If you take all the Y
cominator investments fair um but given

00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.757
the speed of AI growth and the disruption
where would you advise people

00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:03.757
in this room to invest today? Is there

00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:07.757
one place that you think they should?

00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:09.677
The cool thing about a moment like this

00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:12.077
when the ground is shaking is sort of

00:40:12.160 --> 00:40:15.437
everything is up for grabs. Um things

00:40:15.520 --> 00:40:20.797
are going to change so fast.
Things are changing so fast.

00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:23.677
As we talked about earlier, you can
have these oneperson companies doing the

00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.277
things that used to take much bigger
companies, but they can move faster,

00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:31.517
much more efficiently. So there will be
all of the do the existing things better

00:40:31.600 --> 00:40:35.437
and then there's a whole set of new
things we just couldn't imagine before.

00:40:35.520 --> 00:40:38.237
Um, it feels like the investment

00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:43.517
landscape is more open than it's ever
been in any of my time as an adult. Uh,

00:40:43.600 --> 00:40:46.077
there were many times before where it
felt like there was only one thing to

00:40:46.160 --> 00:40:48.237
invest in. There was only one frontier.

00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:52.077
And now it feels like you can kind
of do whatever whatever you want.

00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:57.277
>> Okay. How far are we from ASI? You said
AGI we're a few years away. How far are

00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:00.637
we from ASI? >> No, I said
from ASI we're a few years

00:41:00.720 --> 00:41:06.637
away. Um, >> so AGI, how far then? I mean,
hi feels pretty close at this point.

00:41:06.720 --> 00:41:07.037
>> Okay.

00:41:07.120 --> 00:41:11.677
>> Like if you had asked me,

00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:15.997
I think if you had asked
most people 6 years ago,

00:41:16.080 --> 00:41:21.197
what would you think if we had systems
that could do new research on their own?

00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.917
What would you think if we had systems
that could make an entire complex

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.677
computer program on their own that could
do pretty sophisticated knowledge work

00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:31.037
in all these different fields? you know,
you could have one system that could act

00:41:31.120 --> 00:41:33.597
as an AI doctor, lawyer, a computer

00:41:33.680 --> 00:41:35.757
scientist would say, "Okay, that sounds

00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:38.157
pretty general and pretty intelligent."

00:41:38.240 --> 00:41:41.917
Um, we get used to whatever we have. Uh,

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:45.597
but just watching how much
the technology we already have is

00:41:45.680 --> 00:41:47.917
accelerating us internally, I would say

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:53.117
it's pretty close. Um, and given what
I now expect to be a faster takeoff, I

00:41:53.200 --> 00:41:54.797
think super intelligence is not that far

00:41:54.880 --> 00:42:00.600
off. The one thing
you'll never ask Chad GPT

00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:09.997
I think I would never ask it like how to

00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:14.317
be happy. I would rather
ask like a wise person then.

00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:18.397
>> That's a really
interesting because [applause]

00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:20.717
that's really interesting because uh one

00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.037
of the most uses of AI is for

00:42:23.120 --> 00:42:26.877
companionship for you know for that that

00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:31.117
categorization of >> um to the
extent of therapy and you know

00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:34.637
it's >> yeah I think
like for sort of things

00:42:34.720 --> 00:42:39.117
like therapy or life advice it can
be pretty good. I think for like life

00:42:39.200 --> 00:42:41.757
philosophy, I'm still
not going to take it.

00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:43.757
>> Okay. No. Wonderful. Okay. Wonderful.

00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:46.797
Um, so which is less likely to happen?

00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:50.717
That the uh TSMC loses its monopoly over

00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:55.037
world chip manufacturing or Musk
and you become friends again?

00:42:55.120 --> 00:42:59.917
Which one is which one is less
likely >> or more likely?

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.437
>> Uh, I think Musk and I becoming friends

00:43:03.520 --> 00:43:07.517
again is less likely. I feel like
I have more control over that one.

00:43:07.600 --> 00:43:09.837
But both very unlikely things.

00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:15.037
>> What is it about TSMC that you
know the the semiconductor Taiwan semic

00:43:15.120 --> 00:43:18.397
semiconductor corporation? What what
is it about it that makes it so I mean the

00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:21.917
whole world is kind of just >>
it's they have just this relentless

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.557
focus on getting better at what they do.

00:43:24.640 --> 00:43:29.517
It's this incredibly complex process
and they are just a machine at how they

00:43:29.600 --> 00:43:32.237
optimize and get better
and learn at every level.

00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:36.477
>> Okay. Um, the most recent update you
can share with us about your partnership

00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:40.157
with Johnny Ives. You're talking about
these new cool devices. It's going to

00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:43.677
change the form factor of a cell phone,
how you interact with machines. Anything

00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.077
you can share with us about that?

00:43:46.160 --> 00:43:49.160
>> Um,

00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:56.557
we have basically used computers for the
same way in for like 50 years. You know,

00:43:56.640 --> 00:44:00.637
I think the work that Xerox Park did
to invent all the concepts of Windows and

00:44:00.720 --> 00:44:02.797
pointing devices and everything that we

00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:05.597
now take for granted is amazing. Putting

00:44:05.680 --> 00:44:07.677
it on a phone and adding multi-touch was

00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.237
also amazing. But fundamentally, it's

00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.277
been, you know, a similar kind of idea.

00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.517
And then AI came along and AI is stuck

00:44:15.600 --> 00:44:20.317
in that same form factor. But AI is like
a quite different thing. AI, you can now

00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.677
talk to a computer in natural language
and it can do incredibly complex things

00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:28.077
for you. it can understand a huge
amount of context and the form factor of

00:44:28.160 --> 00:44:30.477
computers does not quite work for this.

00:44:30.560 --> 00:44:35.037
You know, I want I want to use a piece
of technology that is observing my whole

00:44:35.120 --> 00:44:36.797
life and that has all the context and is

00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:39.357
maximally useful to me and that has the

00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:42.237
that is in my way the least and that can

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:43.837
not just be on or off but these sort of

00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:48.077
subtle states in between. And

00:44:48.160 --> 00:44:50.477
we may fail at this. This is very hard.

00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:54.557
But I think we have a chance to make
a new kind of products, a new family of

00:44:54.640 --> 00:44:58.237
products that were really designed
around AI that are kind of participating

00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.197
in your life and not in the way of it.

00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:03.277
>> So that's a theory,
but what is the product? I mean,

00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:07.437
>> you'll have to wait and see. [laughter]
>> Do we get uh when can we see this?

00:45:07.520 --> 00:45:10.557
Because it's sounding
very re revolutionary. So

00:45:10.640 --> 00:45:14.957
>> um I mean we hope
to talk be able to talk

00:45:15.040 --> 00:45:17.677
about it late this year,
but >> Okay. Sure.

00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:21.997
>> Hardware is hard. >> Okay. Um

00:45:22.080 --> 00:45:25.197
the one thing that governments should
regulate and one thing they should avoid

00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.280
regulating.

00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:32.477
This is not a competent answer.

00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:36.477
Generally speaking, I think it's
probably a good idea for governments to

00:45:36.560 --> 00:45:38.477
focus on regulating the really

00:45:38.560 --> 00:45:41.197
potentially catastrophic issues and

00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:44.317
being more lenient on the less important

00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:46.317
issues until we understand them better.

00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:50.957
>> Okay. Is there any one introspection
or learning from your professional

00:45:51.040 --> 00:45:57.240
disagreements with any
of the co-founders you've had?

00:46:02.160 --> 00:46:09.000
>> It It's It's hard to reduce
that to a single sound bite. Um,

00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.957
one thing that Greg and I have disagreed
on a lot over the years is how much the

00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:20.877
company should focus versus do a lot
of things. And I think I've been wrong

00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.637
about trying to do so many things.
And I've really learned from him the

00:46:24.720 --> 00:46:27.517
importance of extremely narrow deep focus.

00:46:27.600 --> 00:46:30.157
>> Okay. Interesting. one mistake the

00:46:30.240 --> 00:46:36.200
biggest mistake you have seen
corporates making in adopting AI.

00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:42.957
Um, I was in a meeting yesterday uh

00:46:43.040 --> 00:46:47.197
yesterday with a big company who was

00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:49.997
planning to uh

00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:51.997
spend 2026

00:46:52.080 --> 00:46:54.797
strategizing, 2027 getting the company

00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:59.400
ready and 2028 deploying.

00:47:00.080 --> 00:47:03.037
And that may work for other kinds of

00:47:03.120 --> 00:47:07.117
technology. Apparently, if you do like
a giant ERP migration, that's the kind of

00:47:07.200 --> 00:47:09.677
timeline it takes. Doing that for AI

00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:12.717
will be a catastrophic mistake um the

00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:17.517
the the nimleness required, the speed,
the commitment required is just totally

00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:21.117
different. >> Okay. Okay.
Uh get to the last piece

00:47:21.200 --> 00:47:25.277
here. Um following heads of state want
your opinion on one thing they need to

00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:27.997
do for their people's future in this new

00:47:28.080 --> 00:47:31.437
AI context. Xi Jinping, Narendra Modi,

00:47:31.520 --> 00:47:38.040
Putin, Trump. What's the one thing you
tell each of them that they should do?

00:47:38.720 --> 00:47:41.757
>> I would say the same thing to everyone,
which is you got to democratize this

00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:44.717
technology and put it in the hands
of people. They're not all going to listen

00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:48.990
to that. Obviously, [laughter]

00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:52.877
it's a fair answer, of course,
but it's a safe answer. But is it is it a

00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:55.517
different thing that you know like
a young country should do to an old

00:47:55.600 --> 00:47:57.437
country from a from a head of state

00:47:57.520 --> 00:48:00.237
perspective? I mean

00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:05.517
>> I don't I mean I feel
increasingly radicalized

00:48:05.600 --> 00:48:07.117
on this point. I don't think any other

00:48:07.200 --> 00:48:08.477
strategy is going to work.

00:48:08.560 --> 00:48:13.437
>> Okay, fair. Um the one if I can ask you

00:48:13.520 --> 00:48:17.277
to describe your relationship with Satya
Nadella because he calls you he calls

00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.157
open a friend of me. Uh

00:48:20.240 --> 00:48:21.677
>> I would just say friends.

00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:26.157
>> Okay, cool. Your most expensive hire

00:48:26.240 --> 00:48:27.597
ever. You don't have to tell me who, but

00:48:27.680 --> 00:48:30.317
how much money did it it cost? Because

00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:35.640
>> we we we are no
comparison to Meta here.

00:48:36.090 --> 00:48:40.237
[applause] >> Okay. Okay.
Which my last question now,

00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:44.477
which of these four statements that you
have you have made and you have now

00:48:44.560 --> 00:48:47.197
upgraded or revised do you regret?

00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:51.197
Statement one that India building
a foundation model with $10 million is

00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:55.357
hopeless. Statement two that you will
remain a non for profit. I clarified that.

00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:59.197
>> Yeah. I said anyone building the point
was anyone building a foundation model

00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:01.037
for $10 million. >> Okay,
so that's statement one. Statement

00:49:01.120 --> 00:49:02.637
two, you'll remain a not for profofit.

00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:04.877
Statement three, too much AI regulation

00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:06.957
can stifle innovation. And statement

00:49:07.040 --> 00:49:11.037
four, open AI won't accept advertising.

00:49:11.120 --> 00:49:13.517
>> I don't think I ever said
we won't accept advertising.

00:49:13.600 --> 00:49:15.117
>> Sorry. >> Um I don't
think I ever said we won't

00:49:15.200 --> 00:49:18.157
accept advertising. I think maybe I said
I had misgivings. I guess I'll pick the

00:49:18.240 --> 00:49:22.077
nonprofit one. >> Okay.
All right. Super. Um it's been a

00:49:22.160 --> 00:49:25.677
great uh I've tried to cover as much
as I could. Must have been a lot.

00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:28.550
>> Um, [laughter]

00:49:29.680 --> 00:49:33.437
>> you only gave me an hour, man.
I would have wanted few. We'll take a few

00:49:33.520 --> 00:49:34.797
questions from the audience. Yeah.

00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:36.957
>> Okay. Can I get a show
of hands who all are here for?

00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:38.797
>> I would love another meme.
So, if anyone

00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.757
wants to ask me about Indian
foundation models, let's run it back.

00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:45.357
>> Okay. Yeah. Um, can we Okay. Yeah. Can

00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:47.677
we get Rajes please first? Rajes is the

00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:52.557
founder of Make My Trip. Uh,
he makes money when we are holidaying.

00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:56.877
>> All right. Uh, thank you. Well, thank
you Anand. Uh, and welcome again, Sam.

00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:00.797
Uh, incredible one hour chat and and you
did a great job by the way, keeping

00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:03.517
yourself calm while Anand did a great

00:50:03.600 --> 00:50:06.477
job on provoking you hell of a lot. Um,

00:50:06.560 --> 00:50:11.117
so that's good job. Yeah, by the way,
partners, I met Brad earlier today. I

00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:12.717
just have one question. It got triggered

00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:15.037
from your comment actually that you are

00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:18.317
a research first company, right? Um, and

00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:21.517
if I think harder about that, um, the

00:50:21.600 --> 00:50:24.317
kick for researchers

00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:27.597
um the satisfaction that they get when

00:50:27.680 --> 00:50:29.517
they every time they go deep into

00:50:29.600 --> 00:50:32.717
research and they strike gold right you

00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.957
know in terms of innovation in terms
of something really crazy that they

00:50:37.040 --> 00:50:38.797
discover

00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:44.317
do you think um um given the power of AI

00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.677
that's equal amount of focus needs to be

00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:51.997
on responsible AI as well

00:50:52.080 --> 00:50:56.397
>> yes I do think that and I think the one
of the things I'm most proud of with our

00:50:56.480 --> 00:51:00.157
research team is how much they feel
that as we get closer and closer to super

00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:03.597
intelligence they of course feel it more
and more but it's been a core part of

00:51:03.680 --> 00:51:07.837
our DNA from the very beginning and I
think the researchers that succeed the

00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:12.397
most with us have that process
going on in their brains

00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.517
>> I think we don't have time the last
question is I'm I'm getting some hand

00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:19.757
signals yeah okay last question >> do
a few more we'll go I'll answer fast

00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:24.640
>> the race for talent u
where do you think it's heading

00:51:25.040 --> 00:51:28.040
Um,

00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:33.037
as AI does more and more of research and

00:51:33.120 --> 00:51:36.157
engineering, I suspect teams will do

00:51:36.240 --> 00:51:37.757
much more with smaller amounts of

00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:41.677
people. And so you'll have uh

00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:43.517
I I think I think the race for talent

00:51:43.600 --> 00:51:46.717
should ease somewhat and you'll see

00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:49.117
small teams uh in research labs just do

00:51:49.200 --> 00:51:52.157
a huge amount of work.

00:51:52.240 --> 00:51:54.557
A question for Anand actually. I think

00:51:54.640 --> 00:51:56.717
he's asked you all the questions. How

00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:59.197
much did OpenAI chat GPD help you with

00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.157
the question?

00:52:02.240 --> 00:52:07.357
>> I I I I have to admit I I I use a lot
for research. But if you ask OpenAI for

00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:11.597
any interview to help you and give
the questions I you know it it just feels

00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:13.437
very synthetic. So I don't end up uh you

00:52:13.520 --> 00:52:16.317
know using it yet. Uh

00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:20.637
>> that's good. [laughter] >> Sam
I don't do we have time one more or

00:52:20.720 --> 00:52:25.037
no? Yes. Okay, cool. Can we actually
show hands? I'm not getting a sense. Can

00:52:25.120 --> 00:52:29.517
Can I do some uh sort of affirmative
action and get a women some women hands

00:52:29.600 --> 00:52:31.677
please? Yes, please. Right there.

00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:35.677
Thanks. Please.

00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:39.437
>> Uh, hi Sam. This is Tuti. Um, before I

00:52:39.520 --> 00:52:44.077
ask you my question, I think I might
have manifested this. I'm a podcaster

00:52:44.160 --> 00:52:48.397
and I asked Chad GBD. >> Okay,
it's not a short question. Please.

00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:50.317
>> So, because this is what I manifested.

00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.237
This is you and me sitting in your open

00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:56.157
AI 3 weeks ago and here I am. But my

00:52:56.240 --> 00:52:58.557
question to you is as a creator of

00:52:58.640 --> 00:53:01.597
course we use a lot of chat GBT but what

00:53:01.680 --> 00:53:05.357
concerns you more will AI become too

00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:07.757
powerful or will humans become very

00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:10.717
passive especially for creators you know

00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:13.917
chat GPD like even an unset that it sort

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:17.917
of becomes very superficial
when you rely only on that

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:20.957
>> I don't think humans will become too
passive so I guess I'll take the other

00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:23.277
one uh watching what creators are doing

00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:25.357
in particular where they can use these

00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.477
tools to help have a quicker, tighter

00:53:28.560 --> 00:53:33.277
iteration loop from idea to feedback
to idea to feedback. Um, I think we'll get

00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.157
better stuff. I think we'll get more
creative podcast, better writing, better

00:53:36.240 --> 00:53:39.437
images, but I don't think we're going
to become passive in that process. I used

00:53:39.520 --> 00:53:42.477
to worry about that, but it doesn't
seem like it's what's happening.

00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:45.677
>> Okay, we I actually I've got a list of
people we had promised questions to. So,

00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:47.757
Mr. Abishek Katan is here. Sorry, where

00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:51.117
is he? No. Oh, there he is. Can we get a

00:53:51.200 --> 00:53:54.397
mic to him, please? Uh Hazel is Hazel

00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:57.757
around yeah please go ahead.

00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:59.757
>> Uh first of all it's a very interesting

00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:03.037
session uh what I wanted to ask is

00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:05.597
according to you which profession

00:54:05.680 --> 00:54:09.037
because of uh chat GPD and AI will be

00:54:09.120 --> 00:54:12.840
most under threat.

00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:17.837
>> Um I think a lot
of professions will almost

00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:20.157
go away. a lot of the current ones we

00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:22.957
will find new things to do for sure and

00:54:23.040 --> 00:54:25.597
people will adapt those but if you think

00:54:25.680 --> 00:54:28.397
about

00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.597
well I'll pick my own uh I I was trained

00:54:31.680 --> 00:54:33.917
as a software engineer and the way I

00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:39.037
learned to write software is now
effectively completely irrelevant so it

00:54:39.120 --> 00:54:40.317
doesn't mean there's no longer a

00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:42.477
software engineering job in the future

00:54:42.560 --> 00:54:46.237
but writing you know C++ code by hand

00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:49.037
that's over And I think there's a lot of

00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:53.357
other professions where in the old sense
they're over. There may be something

00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:56.317
totally new. There will be other
professions that change almost not at

00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:59.997
all, but big categories of jobs AI is

00:55:00.080 --> 00:55:04.237
just going to completely obsolete and
we'll what those people do will have to

00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.517
completely adapt. Um >> Sam,
let's flip the question. What's the

00:55:07.600 --> 00:55:11.320
least vulnerable job?

00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:16.317
>> Well, there was a question about
creators. One one thing that I think is

00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:18.877
interesting is when AI started

00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:23.837
generating images, people said uh
graphic artists that's over. That's

00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:28.317
done. And that might be true for the
kind of graphic artist job that was to

00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:31.997
to sort of like, you know,
make someone's birthday card invitation or

00:55:32.080 --> 00:55:34.157
something. But for fine art, the price

00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:37.837
of AI generated art is a zero. And the

00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:41.197
price of human generated graphic art
has continued to go up since this has

00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:43.917
happened. And so there are many things

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:46.077
like that where we care about the person

00:55:46.160 --> 00:55:49.277
who does it. Um you know another example

00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:53.437
is like I really care about I had to go

00:55:53.520 --> 00:55:56.957
to the hospital recently. I really cared
about the nurse that was taking care of

00:55:57.040 --> 00:56:00.317
me. If that were like a robot I think I
would have been pretty unhappy no matter

00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:01.757
how smart the robot was.

00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:04.957
>> Okay. Hazel.

00:56:05.040 --> 00:56:10.077
>> Hi Sam. I'm from Chitkara University.
Um just taking from the previous question

00:56:10.160 --> 00:56:11.917
on responsible

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:15.197
AI how do you see your role like do you

00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:18.397
invest in time putting in checks and

00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:20.957
balances you know and does the pace of

00:56:21.040 --> 00:56:23.997
the checks and balances are in the same

00:56:24.080 --> 00:56:27.037
line as the you know the advancements

00:56:27.120 --> 00:56:31.837
that we are seeing in AI um
so just around that thank you

00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:33.757
>> yeah it's a huge focus of ours as a

00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:37.117
company and mine personally um

00:56:37.200 --> 00:56:39.117
sometimes Sometimes we overdo it.

00:56:39.200 --> 00:56:42.557
Sometimes we're too conservative with a
new technology or a new level. Sometimes

00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:46.717
we put in too many checks. People get
mad about that. Uh there is a tension

00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:51.677
between democratizing AI and enough
safety. But I think our principle of

00:56:51.760 --> 00:56:55.277
starting conservative and then
broadening access has served us well and

00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:57.357
we plan to continue to do that.

00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:00.317
>> Sam, we're completely out of time. Sam,
thank you so much. Thank you so much for

00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:04.280
your time. Thank you for being here.