WEBVTT

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Well, we are joined by Alex Karp.

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Welcome to the show. [screaming] Thank
you so much for taking the time with or

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without hat. >> Uh, whatever
is comfortable for you. You can do that.

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>> It's cold out here.
>> Keep your hat on.

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>> I feel like this is an average
day for you. You're always out skiing.

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>> We should have done it. Yeah, we need
to get We're close to getting skis. Look,

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>> we could Well, you know, we were
supposed to do something physical.

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>> It's starting to stick. >> It's
starting to stick. Oh, I like this.

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But now I feel like a newscaster.
I feel important.

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>> This is good. >> You're
like 8t tall. don't realize that

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he's not standing up because it would be
like he's like counterulate for all of us.

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>> He's [laughter] like 8 foot.

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>> Last time we talked to you, I think
you were doing four minutes on the dead

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hang. What's it up to now? >> 50 55.

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>> 505. What about in the cold though?

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That's going to >> We need
to have a special minute for

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that. 50. For those of you who haven't
done a dead hang, first of all, go do it.

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>> Why is it important? >> Um,
well, there there are very few

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things that are proxy indicators
that are accurate for health. Yeah,

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>> it's like dead hang, farmers walk, body
weight, and V2 are the three ones that

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count. >> I don't think anyone really >>
one rep match bench bench press. That's

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all I focus on. >> Okay.
Well, you know, it's like

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>> I feel like I feel like as long as I
have a really impressive bench press,

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I'll I'll live a short
but glorious life. I don't know.

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>> Did they say something about that?
Who want to live a long glorious life when

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you can live a glorious short life?

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>> Yeah, I think that's what they tell
you before they give you a bad salary and

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something like that. [laughter] I
think I think it's like Yeah. or it's

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like, "Yeah, my social life is so great.

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I only have a bot, but I enjoy it kind
of logic." No. Um, but no, it's um,

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>> dead hang is important.
>> Dead hanging is crucial. Okay.

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>> And you really need to go work on it.

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Especially anyone watching your
podcast >> is likely to outperform.

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>> Yeah. >> You want
to have some, you know, you

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want to be able to do something
with that outperformance.

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>> Yeah. Like dead. >> Like, yeah.
Well, the dead hang may be a

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proxy indicator for other things you
could do with your outperformance, you

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know, but you know, not everyone is Yeah.
Not everyone is like 6' n like you

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may not need a dead hang,
but the rest of us

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>> Well, the I can cheat because most
of the pull I just stand on the floor.

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That's right. And I can hold forever as
long as I can. That's right. That's right.

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>> Um but but when
you're not dead hanging,

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uh what should people be doing with the
new coding agents? How important is it

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to learn to code? How important is it
to >> look there there are two that

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everybody's worried about like their
future but there are basically two ways

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to know you have a future one you
have some vocational training okay

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>> so it's like or two you're neurode
divergent and and I when I say neurode

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divergent I mean broadly defined like >>
you guys are sitting here you could have

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had a corporate tool job yeah >> you
could have been like I don't want to

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pick on Goldman but like
just say you know like a job

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>> I applied there they turned me down
>> well yeah I did work at a little bit

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[laughter] you could you
at a job where you're like

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it's like yeah no actually maybe
they didn't know the right way to test

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>> like it's like yeah they were like like
you know whatever I'm not picking on one

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or the other I'm just saying you you you

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know the like you are probably here you
think you're here because duh but it's

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actually you probably wouldn't have
been able to do that cuz there's like

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it's the same thing as sit
down in class and learn some

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>> like and you just regurgitate it like

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>> that's not a valuable thing

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>> if you are actually have insights into
anything and and you have real technical

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expertise. Yeah. >> Like you
know you can look at a company

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but you actually can look at it because
you know something about how these

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things work or something about how
clients work you know then all the other

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stuff that used to be precious like

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being able to do low-end coding being
able to do low-end luring being able to

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do low-end reading and writing. I mean
got this is like I feel like Odin came

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down and was like I'm going to make
the world just right for a dyslexic. It's

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[laughter] like it's like yeah Odin has
come down from or Locky has come down

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and said you know what carp
you suffered so much as a kid

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>> I'm just going to make the whole
world so everyone else can suffer

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>> I don't want that
it's like now but it's

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really an inversion like everybody
with like the normal shape skills are

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dyslexics cuz like >> the meaning
the thing they can do that

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used to be valuable is not so valuable.

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The thing that they need to learn to do
is like be more of an artist look at

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things from a different direction be
able to build something unique. M I like

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and you see this on the battlefield like
one of the most underappreciated things

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about fighting a war which is the I
mean there are basic core things

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civilizations do like
build technology for war

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>> is every society fights differently

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every component of the society fights
differently and when like American as

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allies we do not even approach these
problems in the same way what it makes

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America lethal more so than any
currently country is like a combination

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of obviously the technology which we're
super interested in and and and believe

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are paying a huge part in um but it's

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like 20 years of like operators figuring

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out what worked what not what worked
in a manual like what worked in reality

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also even selection if you look at the
selection of people like you meet like

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tier one operators >> they
don't look anything like what

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people would think it's not like
the movies they're like these like these

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they're like this big and like
you know it's like because we have

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>> yeah we have we
have we have specialized

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ways of doing that all
that is crazy valuable

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as a proxy indicator. People who are
getting their news from you are just

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likely to massively outperform. People
are getting their news from something

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that's a regurgitation of you got
to vote for one party or the other.

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>> Um >> and then the the
real problem we have in

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society is not your listeners or pounders
customers or our partners. It's

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like well what happens to everyone else?

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Are they going to lynch us?
>> Cuz like that's the real problem. like

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these products like what we're building

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like our our our agents mean that like

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the most I mean the most powerful
people in the Democratic party are highly

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educated female voters and these
technologies like they love they I mean

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like yeah I actually get along with all
these people in private and there's a

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public dispute but like largely I've
talked to Dar over and over again it's

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like yeah you love one company because
they they're not proTrump that company's

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taking your job >> how are
you going to feel about that

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company when you find out you have no
job and What what what do you think the

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Republican part is going to do
to products that do not support our

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military? What do you think
the Democratic part is going to do to

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products even if you're voting for them
that are taking away the jobs of every

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one of your constituents and saying,
"Oh, people are going to love you so

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much and you're going to be poor."

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>> By the way, we love you so much, we're
going to give you a little handout once

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a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
So, apply that to the the SAS

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apocalypse narrative, the enterprise SAS.
There's an idea that uh the first

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jobs that will be taken might be the

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enterprise software products that exist,
haven't really innovated, have lock in,

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and they're going to be replatformed.

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>> If you that the the thing that these
technologies do is they also make it

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harder to lie about. This is what part
of the political problem. If something's

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not creating value or something's not
working or there's corruption, you can't

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lie about it. M

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>> and nobody believes that all software

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companies actually create value. I mean
the famous thing that we all learned was

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that we rejected that you were learned
and people taught you is like your

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software company is supposed to give the
client the feeling they're getting laid

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while they're getting >> Yeah.

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>> Now if that's how
your products actually

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are, you are now it's you who are
going to get like and this is going to

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happen so quickly. And the simple test

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for people who are looking at this is does
this product or in our case we were

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never pure software. We're actually like

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a hybrid of like humans FDEES uh

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augmented humans so AI FDES
and then orchestration and then

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>> and essentially what we would
call primitives like taking the tribal

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knowledge of institution coding it into
logic and then using that to be extended

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in LMS. Okay. >> But we don't
have to explain that to our

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clients you know. So, so, so there's
there was always this, oh, is Palunteer

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a consulting firm? Is it all just people?
Is there any real software? I

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feel like that narrative went away.

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>> They they couldn't invest in us because
we were a service company. Exactly.

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>> And now now it's like and now >>
but but is is is actually having that

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service better in the future.
>> No, no, it's not better. It's

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>> underrated. It's crucial. >> It's
crucial. Like all these places that

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made fun of us, they're running around
and trying to get FD. Of course, getting

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an FDA is like Yeah. It's like yeah
it's not as easy as it sounds because you

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have to know how to manage it where
to put the person how to extract value and

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then you need all these products that

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augment the FD what are those products

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ontology foundry FDI AI
things that we've built

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>> what we being able >> so so
the value of the business is not a

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monolithic codebase that never changes
it is the people it is the deployment is

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the relationships is that how you're
thinking about the business these days

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>> well actually the way I I'm telling
you like when you walk around here Yeah,

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>> they only care they
don't care about any of that.

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>> What they care about is you transformed
my business in 3 months. It would have

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taken 3 years and I
would never have happened.

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>> That's what they care about. Now
then there's a question of how do you do

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that? And that is a that is a

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concatenate. It's artistry. It's like

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>> select client, select where you would

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start, select ways in which and innovate
in ways they would not accept, innovate

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in places they do not understand you
should innovate. Uh learn to manage

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these very complex. By the way, it's
not just culturally complex. It's tribal

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knowledge. And much of that tribal
knowledge is in rules that they have to

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apply because there are all sorts
of rules about manufacturing, hospitals,

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war, um rules that are applied that

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they're not saying they apply, laws,

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>> like all sorts of regul regulatory

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things on top of all that. All that has
to happen very rapidly. So you would

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need and like without going into details
like I'm in the middle of like every

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single one of these discussions
in almost every breakdown it's like people

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do not understand how institutions work.

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They don't understand how the software
would work. They don't know how the LLM

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would work. They don't have the product
that would actually work in that

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environment. And they still at the end
of the day are not saying we're going to

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charge on value. >> Okay.
How do institutions work? Why is

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it that we get these genius models
that are 160 IQ? They can solve incredible

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math and they're not just like everywhere
all the time. What is slowing down?

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>> I mean the simple version
is they're 160 against a test. Yeah.

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>> But the test isn't
it's a concatenation.

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The simple math would be it's 160
on one test but you've got to pass

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differentiated tests over a long period

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of time. So it's a thousand tests. So de

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facto by the 50th step it's zero IQ. But

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then there's also there's also Yeah.
I mean it's like it's it's it's insane.

00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:38.237
Like no, I love when I hear about all
this is going to replace and then I go

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to our clients and they're like could
we have more? We don't even have the

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capacity. Like it's like it's a surreal
thing like would you guys like to be FDs

00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:49.197
cuz we need some help.
>> If you're in the audience completely

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seriously and you're aligned broadly
speaking with America is a great

00:10:53.760 --> 00:10:57.117
country. You don't have to agree about
anything else and you're out there and

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you're technical or just smart. Apply.

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We need you. >> Okay.
America is a great country. Put

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aside Democrat. put aside Republican. Is

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democracy the correct formulation to

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decide the future of AI? Should the

00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.717
American people be voting to Should that

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be handled by private companies?

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>> No, America. Well, it depends like like

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Yeah. Great. So,
in the war fighting context,

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>> the Department of War Yes. has to be
the arbiter of what gets deployed now.

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>> But as a citizen, I vote
for the Department of War. Right.

00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.077
>> Exactly. Yeah. Okay. But but I'm just

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saying no. So I I want to split domestic

00:11:34.800 --> 00:11:39.997
and and foreign because like we in this
country have god-given rights literally

00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:43.117
given to us by a higher being.
There's a right of free expression which

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>> we're exercising all the time
and is very important to us. Uh there's a

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second amendment which I exercise.
I I shoot very well. I would encourage you

00:11:51.520 --> 00:11:55.197
guys and other people to listening
to avail yourself of the second amendment.

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Yes. >> Uh it it was not
it is there to protect

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ourselves in case
the first amendment fails.

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>> That's the reason it's there. There's
a a fourth amendment which is essentially

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we have a right to privacy.
Okay, >> we have those rights.

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>> Adversaries trying to kill us
in Iran do not have those rights.

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>> And I don't believe I've never believed
in extending our rights to foreign

00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.597
countries that are adversarial to us.

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>> I don't even really believe I don't
like, you know, in Germany where I lived

00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.157
half my life, they don't
have a first amendment.

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>> They don't believe it. And by the way,
they've never believed in a first

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amendment. They have other rights.

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That's great. I'm not going to dispute

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that. But I want our rights here

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>> in this country. Uh if you're going to

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tell the American people you're building
what is clearly a dangerous technology,

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it's dangerous because it it will likely
take your job, especially if you're

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white collar. So >> if you're voting,
you know, you're highly educated.

00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.787
>> Have you flipped on that in the last
like six months or so? Because I think

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[clears throat] I think the last time
we talked your general mindset was like

00:12:59.520 --> 00:13:03.757
high agency, highly productive
people will be able to

00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.437
continue to leverage the tools
to deliver value with an organization.

00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:10.477
>> Yeah. I think if you're neurode
divergent and high agency and you're

00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:14.397
highly educated, that's great. But if
you're not neurode divergent and you're

00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.997
like lawyer 14506, that's a problem.

00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.157
>> Okay, but let me
get to this and they're

00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.877
linked, but it's okay. on domestic

00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:25.357
stuff. Uh

00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:29.917
I we have rights that are not subject to

00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.717
major majority rule like I the majority
can vote against us having fourth

00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:38.797
amendment rights. I want that I want
that litigated at the Supreme Court

00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:42.557
because I we are not our constitution
is not about majority right. It's actually

00:13:42.640 --> 00:13:45.997
about the rights of the minority
and it's our right all I bet you the three

00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.717
of us have opinions that are
very much in the minority

00:13:48.800 --> 00:13:52.877
>> that we want to be able to say at least
in the privacy of our own home right and

00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:57.277
so so that those are real
issues I'm super sympathetic with

00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.437
>> restrictions around the use of these
products in a domestic context even

00:14:01.520 --> 00:14:05.117
though it's funny people out there every
conspiracy theorist thinks yeah it's

00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:08.957
insane I'm the only one >>
conspiracy theorists you may hate this

00:14:09.040 --> 00:14:12.397
but there's one person protecting your
right to be a conspiracy theorist that

00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:15.277
actually has a seat at the
table and that person is me.

00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:19.917
>> You may not you may not want
to hear that truth, but it's it is true.

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.837
And maybe do a little more reading
before you pontificate on your absurd

00:14:23.920 --> 00:14:28.717
and obviously illformed and many times
stupid opinions. Okay? So, cuz like

00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:30.237
you're attacking the person who's

00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.637
protecting you, idiot. Uh [laughter]

00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:35.837
it's like so stupid. Do do use

00:14:35.920 --> 00:14:38.557
one of the bots to correct your opinion.

00:14:38.640 --> 00:14:40.637
It's like I'm being attacked online now.

00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.317
He's like Dr. Karp is anti-progressive
versus I progressive my whole life. I'm

00:14:44.400 --> 00:14:45.597
the only just telling you the truth.

00:14:45.680 --> 00:14:47.037
These things are going to take your job.

00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:52.317
Okay. So then but in the war
fighting context and it's the primary

00:14:52.400 --> 00:14:55.597
justification for these procs has to be
it's it's there are two relevant powers

00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:59.677
now. US and China.
>> This is a half have not world. It's

00:14:59.760 --> 00:15:04.077
going to be either us or them.
It's basically deciding the world order

00:15:04.160 --> 00:15:07.917
because like these other countries and
maybe India will will will get involved,

00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.517
maybe the Arab, non-Arab, Middle East,
but currently on the trajectory we're on

00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.717
now, there are two places where these
things are being developed and deployed.

00:15:14.800 --> 00:15:18.237
It's us or them. And I'm not particularly,
you know, I'm not I'm not

00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.437
out to hurt China. I'm just out to I
think we should win. I'm not trying to

00:15:21.520 --> 00:15:24.637
hurt them. And in that context, you

00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:29.037
can't say we're not going to do X, Y,
and Z. I mean I give you examples but

00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:31.757
like >> there are data
sets that are publicly

00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:36.877
available in the US market that should
I don't think should be used against you

00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:40.317
and me >> in a law law
enforcement context more

00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:43.357
than with the help of say
AI agents and ontology.

00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:47.677
>> Yeah. >> But if you don't use it on
the battlefield you obviously Iran's going

00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:51.037
to use them. You don't think they can go
online and buy those products. Yeah. And

00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.157
and by the way, without going into
somewhat classified idea, those things

00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.317
are in combination with other things
lethal. Like a lot of people who want to

00:15:58.400 --> 00:16:02.957
hurt America on the battlefield end up
dead because of our ability to aggregate

00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:05.597
and then figure out what's going on in
the battlefield before they can figure

00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:08.717
out what we're doing. >> And so
like I'm very much in favor of it

00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:11.837
for moral reasons, but I'm also in favor
of is like I don't know how else you

00:16:11.920 --> 00:16:13.117
explain this to the American people.

00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.957
We're we're going to take your job.

00:16:15.040 --> 00:16:18.717
we're going to take away you're going
to eviscerate your ability to to to have

00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:22.077
money and power but that we're not going
to defend you on the battlefield just

00:16:22.160 --> 00:16:25.677
seems like yeah well they're gonna you
know what's actually going to happen

00:16:25.760 --> 00:16:29.117
>> that nobody believes me in tech
but there's going to be a movement in this

00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.237
country that gets very strong very
quickly to nationalize these things

00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:36.077
first it's going to be take away all our
money the bill billionaires are evil you

00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:39.357
may not have heard that super evil and if
you take away their money it'll help

00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:43.117
poor people that's really important
to understand making rich people miserable

00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.797
is the only way to help poor That's
obviously true. So once you've

00:16:46.880 --> 00:16:49.837
learned that, the next thing you're
going to learn is we have to nationalize

00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:52.397
a techn they're going
to quote you on that.

00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.317
>> Well, it's like you on >> So
So I mean it sounds like you're

00:16:56.400 --> 00:17:00.957
you're you're closer to Daario on,
you know, potentially 50% of early stage

00:17:01.040 --> 00:17:04.797
white collar job loss. Like you're
you're you're aware that there's a risk

00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:07.757
at least ability. You're aware of it.

00:17:07.840 --> 00:17:10.237
What do you see as the solution?

00:17:10.320 --> 00:17:14.717
Um well first we just have to I mean
well I mean the obvious thing is okay we

00:17:14.800 --> 00:17:18.237
can't have any migration here like how
are we going to create more jobs like

00:17:18.320 --> 00:17:22.317
it's like you have to what the problem
in fairness not that people want to be

00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:25.437
in the business of being
fair to policy leaders but

00:17:25.520 --> 00:17:29.357
>> the we are dealing with technologies
that will determine the policy

00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.357
decisions. So you can't just pretend
they're not happening. Like step one is

00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:34.397
like

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.837
>> we it's going to be
hard but possible to

00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.437
make this society work given that

00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:46.120
transforming it requires these technology

00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.077
in some cases but it's like a long trip
and we're here and I'm the only one who

00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:58.237
likes this weather is great weather.
I brought it for you. It's uh uh but um

00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:02.317
they're here because they've seen their
business being transformed and this is

00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:06.397
happening in America more than so we
have to win those battles but the costs

00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.717
are going to be very high and so you
have to work back from okay the costs

00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:14.877
are going to be very high >> we
we can't put oil on the fire it's

00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.477
like you know it's like well getting
jobs for all Americans is going to be

00:18:18.560 --> 00:18:21.437
hard and people maybe
who become Americans but

00:18:21.520 --> 00:18:24.077
>> it's like you have to have different
policies around migration you have to

00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:28.317
different policies around how we train
people like currently if you're a young

00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:32.077
kid in high school and you're neurode
divergent they're literally tra chaining

00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.117
you into your chair and feeding you
medication so you can have skills that

00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.557
are not valuable. >> Yeah.
>> Like it's so it's like and then we'll

00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.637
probably over time have to have like
a discussion of like yeah if you go into

00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.997
this career >> you're
not going to have a job

00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:49.757
>> like a really honest discussion about
that. These are the places where you

00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:52.237
will likely have a job. >> Mhm. And yeah,

00:18:52.320 --> 00:18:52.717
>> help me.

00:18:52.800 --> 00:18:57.037
>> What uh you know, it seems like we

00:18:57.120 --> 00:19:00.237
as a country will probably head down a

00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:03.677
more European path where it is becomes

00:19:03.760 --> 00:19:07.517
very very difficult or near impossible
to let people go. Do you think that's

00:19:07.600 --> 00:19:11.037
correct? >> In Germany,
in Germany, it's much harder

00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:13.437
to to lay someone off.

00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:14.957
>> And that does impact I mean, that does

00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:18.637
impact the the growth of of companies.

00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.317
>> Mhm. But I think many Germans
would argue that's probably

00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.677
>> yeah, you know, Germany's I mean I
won't I'll answer your question. Germany's

00:19:25.760 --> 00:19:30.157
interesting place. I did this thing
in German where I basically told the truth

00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:34.157
which you're not allowed to do in Germany.
It was like you know it's kind

00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:37.997
of really bad situation and the economy
sucks. The migration thing's a complete

00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:40.877
disaster and the energy situation is

00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.757
like compounds everything. And I got

00:19:43.840 --> 00:19:48.237
thousands of people literally saying
thank god someone told the truth. Um,

00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:52.637
and there are a lot of people like you
guys, young people building things that

00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:57.197
feel hampered and and and are correct
to feel hampered. I I think the American

00:19:57.280 --> 00:20:00.077
version, if we're not careful, is not
going to be the German version. I think

00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.997
it's going to be hang the rich.

00:20:02.080 --> 00:20:04.557
>> I It's like I think
it's going to be not

00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.277
protect everybody else. It's going to be
like, look, this is too dangerous and

00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:11.517
we're going to hang the rich but not
really help the poor. And in fairness to

00:20:11.600 --> 00:20:15.917
the German version, like you know,
German like health insurance, insurance,

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.037
all that stuff, it works. Yeah,
>> like I was I was poor in Germany for

00:20:19.120 --> 00:20:23.357
like a decade. And like I had I had
the best life on the planet. Like it was

00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:27.757
like being poor in Germany is like being
better than being rich here in some days.

00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:31.997
>> So basically policies that lift
the floor, re-education, training.

00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:35.117
>> You're So if you want to do
what we could do here, yeah,

00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:38.797
>> we the things we could adopt
from Germany are Germany has three high

00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:40.397
schools. Yeah. Two are vocational.

00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.037
>> Sure. >> One is academic,
>> better education,

00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:45.597
>> better programmatic vocational.

00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.317
Vocational. It also has a bad like
a weird vibe here. Like vocational

00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.397
training in Germany is very technical.

00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.877
Like the people building the cars at BMW
or even in the French version Airbus

00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.877
like very complicated jobs. They didn't
go to college. They went to a very very

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.397
high-end high school and they come
out without any debt. And that stuff is

00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.237
really valuable. So if you want you
you have to completely transform our

00:21:08.320 --> 00:21:12.797
educational system and and go very young
into like training people to do things.

00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:16.397
You also need to change our testing
system like different forms of

00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:20.077
intelligence. All of our tests are built
around things that were valuable in the

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.357
industrial revolution. It's like you
want to pull out all the dyslexics, all

00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.197
the neurode divergence. Everybody who
can't sit or needs to build or wants to

00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:30.957
build have to go into a a separate slot
of like yeah we should have gotten you

00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:34.237
before you got turned down at Coleman
and like said this is like that's a

00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:36.877
waste of your time. You could
be building something important.

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.517
>> And uh what else
goes would be a part of

00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:42.797
the good outcome? Well, the the the most

00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.517
important part of a good outcome is we
show our adversaries you can't with

00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.597
us and we're the best we have the best
military in the world. Hope I believe

00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.077
we're doing that right now. On the good
outcome side, we yeah, we go around and

00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.997
then on the commercial side, we go to all
these high infrastructure, you know,

00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:03.677
hospitals, manufacturing, all these
things, complicated infrastructure and

00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:07.117
we AI enhanced all of them. So
the products are legitimately the best in

00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.797
the world and we rebuild manufacturing
in this country. Like a big problem for

00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.237
us including on the battlefield is our
manufacturing just is not up to where we

00:22:14.320 --> 00:22:17.357
have to be and that by the way requires

00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.837
reskilling uh scaling humans and we're
doing this all over the place. I mean

00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.117
the guy writing a lot of the scripts
for the target these people they're like

00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.237
high school college grads the people
building batteries and all these things

00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:31.357
using our products. These are high
school college grads. There's a lot of

00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:34.957
opportunity there. But you know,
one of the things I told the Germans and I

00:22:35.040 --> 00:22:38.237
would say to us is we I was like,
you know, Germany, you have to call it a

00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:40.877
crisis. We do need like this is a crisis

00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:46.077
moment. America is tomorrow is not going
to look like it looked at all or we're

00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.997
going to have radicalism on right or left.
The the problem, the danger is if

00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:54.237
we don't do these reforms, you are going
to get the pitchforks because that then

00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:57.037
the only solution people are going
to have is well, you know, let's go after

00:22:57.120 --> 00:23:01.917
the unlikable rich people in tech,
especially AI tech. And then but but

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.677
then what can work is yeah close the

00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:06.477
borders keep them closed start doing

00:23:06.560 --> 00:23:10.877
huge vocational efforts change how
we test aptitude like so we have an

00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:15.597
accurate diagnostic of where you could
be slotted uh be ruthless in like you

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:19.597
know it's like in in certain find out
new ways to test and do ruthless testing

00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:24.077
and slotting and then also go around
to universities and just I mean you know

00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.717
how when you like you want to smoke
a cigarette it's like this this cigarette

00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:30.077
may be harmful health maybe we should
be putting that in universities this

00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:34.077
university. This this university
is harmful for your investment. You know,

00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.237
I'm libertarian.
You want to go to university.

00:23:36.320 --> 00:23:40.237
>> Student debt may be harmful to your
future financial for and your personal

00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:44.397
life. Explain to someone you got
a million dollars in debt. A million

00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.237
dollars in debt. I mean, maybe if you're
69 and you you can [laughter] get away

00:23:48.320 --> 00:23:50.717
with that, but the rest
of us have to provide.

00:23:50.800 --> 00:23:54.957
>> That's funny. Uh uh help me square
this idea. You you were you were talking

00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:59.277
earlier today about uh people
misunderstanding your business and

00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:02.157
>> Yeah. What's it like
to read about your business?

00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.237
>> Oh, I mean, first of all, it's I mean,

00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:06.477
the part I I I hate it, but then the

00:24:06.560 --> 00:24:10.077
part I love is and it's like your

00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:11.677
valuable

00:24:11.760 --> 00:24:14.637
your your value is pretty directly con

00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.717
uh convergent with people's inability
to understand what you're doing.

00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:22.397
>> Yeah. >> So, it's like it's like
all these technologies are potentially

00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:23.997
commodifying everything. Yeah.

00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:27.277
>> Okay. So if you are a business that is

00:24:27.360 --> 00:24:29.757
you know not services not product but

00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:32.237
both but also works on tribal knowledge

00:24:32.320 --> 00:24:37.597
on data and every single business you
make is individual and so yeah that's a

00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:39.917
crazy valuable business. >> That's
true in a lot of industries where

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.757
if the broader business community
doesn't understand your business, you

00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:47.837
might have a short report but you'll
have way less competition because people

00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:50.797
aren't copying you. They don't understand.
impossible to copy certain

00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:55.117
like like and and and we we
neglect this like you know um

00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:58.717
>> almost like you even see it culturally
like luxury products dominated by the

00:24:58.800 --> 00:25:02.557
French watches dominated by the Swiss
currently certain kinds of war fighting

00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:06.557
dominated by America and it's like it's
it's very hard for people to evviscerate

00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.637
these cultural advantages and our
products augment that which makes it

00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:15.037
>> uh you know it augments the the
differentiated specific over the

00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:18.877
generalizable and and and that's where
literally all the value is going to go

00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.837
and it's going to be like a waterfall
and that that's the problem with a lot

00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:23.357
of software companies. It's like it's

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.637
like product ABCT but um but but then

00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:31.117
when you read it it's like like one of
the more depressing things that you guys

00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.557
probably confront but it's like a market
market huge market opportunity for you.

00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.637
It's like where are the experts? Like
it's like, you know, it's like there's

00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.837
it's like, you know, you you hope
and pray. Like I'll tell you the funniest

00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:45.677
thing about my life now and people
internally know almost every day I'm

00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:49.917
like wait a minute I'm the adult
in the room here. [laughter]

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.157
It's like everywhere I go it's like it's

00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.117
like wait a minute I like I and it's

00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:59.757
like there it's like and and it's so
it's it's surreal when you read about

00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:03.357
these things but and it's it used
to really frustrate me but now I kind of

00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.037
just think well like I can't believe
we're still viewed as crazy. It's like

00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:09.917
everything we're doing is the only thing
that's working. I mean like I don't want

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.317
to like spend a lot of time on our

00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:15.437
baller accentual essentially baller

00:26:15.520 --> 00:26:18.317
numbers from last year but it's like you

00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:21.757
know clearly our works clearly

00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:26.157
nothing is working at that level and you
would think they would take like I don't

00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.957
know 10 minutes to think okay well
the thing I believed and I thought would

00:26:29.040 --> 00:26:31.677
work didn't work at all this thing I
thought was insane is [clears throat]

00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:34.557
has like a rule of 127 when like no one

00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.277
like 40 is considered like and like but

00:26:37.360 --> 00:26:39.677
they don't and and And then and I Yeah,

00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:41.677
but it's sometimes frustrating honestly.

00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:44.957
And the hard part actually is I kind of

00:26:45.040 --> 00:26:50.157
view it as a feature. Uh internally we
get these brighteyed kids. So it's so

00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:53.197
funny. I mean the one get
the best people in the world.

00:26:53.280 --> 00:26:55.117
>> But you know just
like I was probably at

00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.197
21. They're very romantic.
It's like but why does the adult

00:26:59.280 --> 00:27:03.757
>> not understand this?
>> It's like but but but the adult expert

00:27:03.840 --> 00:27:06.797
tells me. is like I don't know when you
guys had the drop the shoe moment when

00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:11.517
you realized that like the adults are like
you know on crack or something [laughter]

00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:12.557
like

00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.597
>> okay uh last question would you rather

00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.117
have $10 million or access to chatbt in

00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:25.297
2012 it's a viral question
that's going viral right now

00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:28.717
[laughter] >> I have to choose one
or the other like I mean okay I'm just

00:27:28.800 --> 00:27:32.637
>> I don't think he needs I don't
[laughter] I don't think he needs can I

00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.717
could I have my social
life in grad school.

00:27:34.800 --> 00:27:38.317
>> Oh, there we go. Okay.
So, that's on your >> new pick.

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.197
>> We [laughter] just have to ask >> like,
you know, it's like great. I I got

00:27:41.280 --> 00:27:44.717
to take something I valued. >> Okay.
Yeah. The most valuable thing,

00:27:44.800 --> 00:27:47.277
your social life and grad school. Well,
thank you so much for taking the time to

00:27:47.360 --> 00:27:49.517
come with us. It's fantastic. Love you.

00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:52.160
We'll talk to you