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Well, we are joined by Alex Karp.

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Welcome to the show. [screaming] Thank
you so much for taking the time with or

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without hat. >> Uh, whatever
is comfortable for you. You can do that.

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>> It's cold out here.
>> Keep your hat on.

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>> I feel like this is an average
day for you. You're always out skiing.

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>> We should have done it. Yeah, we need
to get We're close to getting skis. Look,

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>> we could Well, you know, we were
supposed to do something physical.

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>> It's starting to stick. >> It's
starting to stick. Oh, I like this.

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But now I feel like a newscaster.
I feel important.

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>> This is good. >> You're
like 8t tall. don't realize that

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he's not standing up because it would be
like he's like counterulate for all of us.

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>> He's [laughter] like 8 foot.

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>> Last time we talked to you, I think
you were doing four minutes on the dead

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hang. What's it up to now? >> 50 55.

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>> 505. What about in the cold though?

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That's going to >> We need
to have a special minute for

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that. 50. For those of you who haven't
done a dead hang, first of all, go do it.

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>> Why is it important? >> Um,
well, there there are very few

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things that are proxy indicators
that are accurate for health. Yeah,

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>> it's like dead hang, farmers walk, body
weight, and V2 are the three ones that

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count. >> I don't think anyone really >>
one rep match bench bench press. That's

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all I focus on. >> Okay.
Well, you know, it's like

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>> I feel like I feel like as long as I
have a really impressive bench press,

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I'll I'll live a short
but glorious life. I don't know.

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>> Did they say something about that?
Who want to live a long glorious life when

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you can live a glorious short life?

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>> Yeah, I think that's what they tell
you before they give you a bad salary and

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something like that. [laughter] I
think I think it's like Yeah. or it's

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like, "Yeah, my social life is so great.

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I only have a bot, but I enjoy it kind
of logic." No. Um, but no, it's um,

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>> dead hang is important.
>> Dead hanging is crucial. Okay.

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>> And you really need to go work on it.

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Especially anyone watching your
podcast >> is likely to outperform.

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>> Yeah. >> You want
to have some, you know, you

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want to be able to do something
with that outperformance.

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>> Yeah. Like dead. >> Like, yeah.
Well, the dead hang may be a

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proxy indicator for other things you
could do with your outperformance, you

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know, but you know, not everyone is Yeah.
Not everyone is like 6' n like you

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may not need a dead hang,
but the rest of us

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>> Well, the I can cheat because most
of the pull I just stand on the floor.

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That's right. And I can hold forever as
long as I can. That's right. That's right.

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>> Um but but when
you're not dead hanging,

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uh what should people be doing with the
new coding agents? How important is it

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to learn to code? How important is it
to >> look there there are two that

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everybody's worried about like their
future but there are basically two ways

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to know you have a future one you
have some vocational training okay

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>> so it's like or two you're neurode
divergent and and I when I say neurode

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divergent I mean broadly defined like >>
you guys are sitting here you could have

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had a corporate tool job yeah >> you
could have been like I don't want to

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pick on Goldman but like
just say you know like a job

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>> I applied there they turned me down
>> well yeah I did work at a little bit

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[laughter] you could you
at a job where you're like

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it's like yeah no actually maybe
they didn't know the right way to test

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>> like it's like yeah they were like like
you know whatever I'm not picking on one

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or the other I'm just saying you you you

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know the like you are probably here you
think you're here because duh but it's

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actually you probably wouldn't have
been able to do that cuz there's like

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it's the same thing as sit
down in class and learn some

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>> like and you just regurgitate it like

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>> that's not a valuable thing

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>> if you are actually have insights into
anything and and you have real technical

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expertise. Yeah. >> Like you
know you can look at a company

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but you actually can look at it because
you know something about how these

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things work or something about how
clients work you know then all the other

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stuff that used to be precious like

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being able to do low-end coding being
able to do low-end luring being able to

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do low-end reading and writing. I mean
got this is like I feel like Odin came

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down and was like I'm going to make
the world just right for a dyslexic. It's

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[laughter] like it's like yeah Odin has
come down from or Locky has come down

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and said you know what carp
you suffered so much as a kid

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>> I'm just going to make the whole
world so everyone else can suffer

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>> I don't want that
it's like now but it's

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really an inversion like everybody
with like the normal shape skills are

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dyslexics cuz like >> the meaning
the thing they can do that

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used to be valuable is not so valuable.

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The thing that they need to learn to do
is like be more of an artist look at

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things from a different direction be
able to build something unique. M I like

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and you see this on the battlefield like
one of the most underappreciated things

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about fighting a war which is the I
mean there are basic core things

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civilizations do like
build technology for war

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>> is every society fights differently

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every component of the society fights
differently and when like American as

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allies we do not even approach these
problems in the same way what it makes

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America lethal more so than any
currently country is like a combination

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of obviously the technology which we're
super interested in and and and believe

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are paying a huge part in um but it's

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like 20 years of like operators figuring

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out what worked what not what worked
in a manual like what worked in reality

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also even selection if you look at the
selection of people like you meet like

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tier one operators >> they
don't look anything like what

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people would think it's not like
the movies they're like these like these

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they're like this big and like
you know it's like because we have

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>> yeah we have we
have we have specialized

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ways of doing that all
that is crazy valuable

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as a proxy indicator. People who are
getting their news from you are just

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likely to massively outperform. People
are getting their news from something

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that's a regurgitation of you got
to vote for one party or the other.

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>> Um >> and then the the
real problem we have in

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society is not your listeners or pounders
customers or our partners. It's

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like well what happens to everyone else?

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Are they going to lynch us?
>> Cuz like that's the real problem. like

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these products like what we're building

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like our our our agents mean that like

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the most I mean the most powerful
people in the Democratic party are highly

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educated female voters and these
technologies like they love they I mean

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like yeah I actually get along with all
these people in private and there's a

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public dispute but like largely I've
talked to Dar over and over again it's

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like yeah you love one company because
they they're not proTrump that company's

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taking your job >> how are
you going to feel about that

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company when you find out you have no
job and What what what do you think the

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Republican part is going to do
to products that do not support our

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military? What do you think
the Democratic part is going to do to

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products even if you're voting for them
that are taking away the jobs of every

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one of your constituents and saying,
"Oh, people are going to love you so

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much and you're going to be poor."

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>> By the way, we love you so much, we're
going to give you a little handout once

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a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
So, apply that to the the SAS

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apocalypse narrative, the enterprise SAS.
There's an idea that uh the first

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jobs that will be taken might be the

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enterprise software products that exist,
haven't really innovated, have lock in,

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and they're going to be replatformed.

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>> If you that the the thing that these
technologies do is they also make it

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harder to lie about. This is what part
of the political problem. If something's

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not creating value or something's not
working or there's corruption, you can't

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lie about it. M

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>> and nobody believes that all software

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companies actually create value. I mean
the famous thing that we all learned was

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that we rejected that you were learned
and people taught you is like your

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software company is supposed to give the
client the feeling they're getting laid

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while they're getting >> Yeah.

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>> Now if that's how
your products actually

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are, you are now it's you who are
going to get like and this is going to

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happen so quickly. And the simple test

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for people who are looking at this is does
this product or in our case we were

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never pure software. We're actually like

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a hybrid of like humans FDEES uh

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augmented humans so AI FDES
and then orchestration and then

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>> and essentially what we would
call primitives like taking the tribal

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knowledge of institution coding it into
logic and then using that to be extended

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in LMS. Okay. >> But we don't
have to explain that to our

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clients you know. So, so, so there's
there was always this, oh, is Palunteer

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a consulting firm? Is it all just people?
Is there any real software? I

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feel like that narrative went away.

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>> They they couldn't invest in us because
we were a service company. Exactly.

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>> And now now it's like and now >>
but but is is is actually having that

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service better in the future.
>> No, no, it's not better. It's

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>> underrated. It's crucial. >> It's
crucial. Like all these places that

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made fun of us, they're running around
and trying to get FD. Of course, getting

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an FDA is like Yeah. It's like yeah
it's not as easy as it sounds because you

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have to know how to manage it where
to put the person how to extract value and

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then you need all these products that

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augment the FD what are those products

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ontology foundry FDI AI
things that we've built

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>> what we being able >> so so
the value of the business is not a

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monolithic codebase that never changes
it is the people it is the deployment is

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the relationships is that how you're
thinking about the business these days

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>> well actually the way I I'm telling
you like when you walk around here Yeah,

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>> they only care they
don't care about any of that.

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>> What they care about is you transformed
my business in 3 months. It would have

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taken 3 years and I
would never have happened.

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>> That's what they care about. Now
then there's a question of how do you do

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that? And that is a that is a

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concatenate. It's artistry. It's like

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>> select client, select where you would

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start, select ways in which and innovate
in ways they would not accept, innovate

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in places they do not understand you
should innovate. Uh learn to manage

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these very complex. By the way, it's
not just culturally complex. It's tribal

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knowledge. And much of that tribal
knowledge is in rules that they have to

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apply because there are all sorts
of rules about manufacturing, hospitals,

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war, um rules that are applied that

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they're not saying they apply, laws,

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>> like all sorts of regul regulatory

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things on top of all that. All that has
to happen very rapidly. So you would

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need and like without going into details
like I'm in the middle of like every

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single one of these discussions
in almost every breakdown it's like people

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do not understand how institutions work.

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They don't understand how the software
would work. They don't know how the LLM

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would work. They don't have the product
that would actually work in that

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environment. And they still at the end
of the day are not saying we're going to

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charge on value. >> Okay.
How do institutions work? Why is

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it that we get these genius models
that are 160 IQ? They can solve incredible

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math and they're not just like everywhere
all the time. What is slowing down?

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>> I mean the simple version
is they're 160 against a test. Yeah.

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>> But the test isn't
it's a concatenation.

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The simple math would be it's 160
on one test but you've got to pass

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differentiated tests over a long period

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of time. So it's a thousand tests. So de

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facto by the 50th step it's zero IQ. But

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then there's also there's also Yeah.
I mean it's like it's it's it's insane.

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Like no, I love when I hear about all
this is going to replace and then I go

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to our clients and they're like could
we have more? We don't even have the

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capacity. Like it's like it's a surreal
thing like would you guys like to be FDs

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cuz we need some help.
>> If you're in the audience completely

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seriously and you're aligned broadly
speaking with America is a great

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country. You don't have to agree about
anything else and you're out there and

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you're technical or just smart. Apply.

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We need you. >> Okay.
America is a great country. Put

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aside Democrat. put aside Republican. Is

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democracy the correct formulation to

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decide the future of AI? Should the

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American people be voting to Should that

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be handled by private companies?

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>> No, America. Well, it depends like like

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Yeah. Great. So,
in the war fighting context,

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>> the Department of War Yes. has to be
the arbiter of what gets deployed now.

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>> But as a citizen, I vote
for the Department of War. Right.

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>> Exactly. Yeah. Okay. But but I'm just

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saying no. So I I want to split domestic

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and and foreign because like we in this
country have god-given rights literally

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given to us by a higher being.
There's a right of free expression which

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>> we're exercising all the time
and is very important to us. Uh there's a

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second amendment which I exercise.
I I shoot very well. I would encourage you

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guys and other people to listening
to avail yourself of the second amendment.

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Yes. >> Uh it it was not
it is there to protect

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ourselves in case
the first amendment fails.

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>> That's the reason it's there. There's
a a fourth amendment which is essentially

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we have a right to privacy.
Okay, >> we have those rights.

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>> Adversaries trying to kill us
in Iran do not have those rights.

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>> And I don't believe I've never believed
in extending our rights to foreign

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countries that are adversarial to us.

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>> I don't even really believe I don't
like, you know, in Germany where I lived

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half my life, they don't
have a first amendment.

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>> They don't believe it. And by the way,
they've never believed in a first

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amendment. They have other rights.

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That's great. I'm not going to dispute

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that. But I want our rights here

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>> in this country. Uh if you're going to

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tell the American people you're building
what is clearly a dangerous technology,

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it's dangerous because it it will likely
take your job, especially if you're

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white collar. So >> if you're voting,
you know, you're highly educated.

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>> Have you flipped on that in the last
like six months or so? Because I think

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[clears throat] I think the last time
we talked your general mindset was like

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high agency, highly productive
people will be able to

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continue to leverage the tools
to deliver value with an organization.

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>> Yeah. I think if you're neurode
divergent and high agency and you're

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highly educated, that's great. But if
you're not neurode divergent and you're

237
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like lawyer 14506, that's a problem.

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>> Okay, but let me
get to this and they're

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linked, but it's okay. on domestic

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stuff. Uh

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I we have rights that are not subject to

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major majority rule like I the majority
can vote against us having fourth

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amendment rights. I want that I want
that litigated at the Supreme Court

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because I we are not our constitution
is not about majority right. It's actually

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about the rights of the minority
and it's our right all I bet you the three

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of us have opinions that are
very much in the minority

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>> that we want to be able to say at least
in the privacy of our own home right and

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so so that those are real
issues I'm super sympathetic with

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>> restrictions around the use of these
products in a domestic context even

250
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though it's funny people out there every
conspiracy theorist thinks yeah it's

251
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,957
insane I'm the only one >>
conspiracy theorists you may hate this

252
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,397
but there's one person protecting your
right to be a conspiracy theorist that

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actually has a seat at the
table and that person is me.

254
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,917
>> You may not you may not want
to hear that truth, but it's it is true.

255
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And maybe do a little more reading
before you pontificate on your absurd

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and obviously illformed and many times
stupid opinions. Okay? So, cuz like

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you're attacking the person who's

258
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protecting you, idiot. Uh [laughter]

259
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,837
it's like so stupid. Do do use

260
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one of the bots to correct your opinion.

261
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,637
It's like I'm being attacked online now.

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He's like Dr. Karp is anti-progressive
versus I progressive my whole life. I'm

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the only just telling you the truth.

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These things are going to take your job.

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Okay. So then but in the war
fighting context and it's the primary

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justification for these procs has to be
it's it's there are two relevant powers

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now. US and China.
>> This is a half have not world. It's

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going to be either us or them.
It's basically deciding the world order

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because like these other countries and
maybe India will will will get involved,

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maybe the Arab, non-Arab, Middle East,
but currently on the trajectory we're on

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now, there are two places where these
things are being developed and deployed.

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It's us or them. And I'm not particularly,
you know, I'm not I'm not

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out to hurt China. I'm just out to I
think we should win. I'm not trying to

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hurt them. And in that context, you

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can't say we're not going to do X, Y,
and Z. I mean I give you examples but

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like >> there are data
sets that are publicly

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available in the US market that should
I don't think should be used against you

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and me >> in a law law
enforcement context more

279
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than with the help of say
AI agents and ontology.

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>> Yeah. >> But if you don't use it on
the battlefield you obviously Iran's going

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to use them. You don't think they can go
online and buy those products. Yeah. And

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and by the way, without going into
somewhat classified idea, those things

283
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,317
are in combination with other things
lethal. Like a lot of people who want to

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00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,957
hurt America on the battlefield end up
dead because of our ability to aggregate

285
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and then figure out what's going on in
the battlefield before they can figure

286
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out what we're doing. >> And so
like I'm very much in favor of it

287
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for moral reasons, but I'm also in favor
of is like I don't know how else you

288
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explain this to the American people.

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00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,957
We're we're going to take your job.

290
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,717
we're going to take away you're going
to eviscerate your ability to to to have

291
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,077
money and power but that we're not going
to defend you on the battlefield just

292
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,677
seems like yeah well they're gonna you
know what's actually going to happen

293
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,117
>> that nobody believes me in tech
but there's going to be a movement in this

294
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,237
country that gets very strong very
quickly to nationalize these things

295
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,077
first it's going to be take away all our
money the bill billionaires are evil you

296
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,357
may not have heard that super evil and if
you take away their money it'll help

297
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,117
poor people that's really important
to understand making rich people miserable

298
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,797
is the only way to help poor That's
obviously true. So once you've

299
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,837
learned that, the next thing you're
going to learn is we have to nationalize

300
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,397
a techn they're going
to quote you on that.

301
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,317
>> Well, it's like you on >> So
So I mean it sounds like you're

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00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,957
you're you're closer to Daario on,
you know, potentially 50% of early stage

303
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,797
white collar job loss. Like you're
you're you're aware that there's a risk

304
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,757
at least ability. You're aware of it.

305
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,237
What do you see as the solution?

306
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,717
Um well first we just have to I mean
well I mean the obvious thing is okay we

307
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,237
can't have any migration here like how
are we going to create more jobs like

308
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,317
it's like you have to what the problem
in fairness not that people want to be

309
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,437
in the business of being
fair to policy leaders but

310
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,357
>> the we are dealing with technologies
that will determine the policy

311
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,357
decisions. So you can't just pretend
they're not happening. Like step one is

312
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,397
like

313
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,837
>> we it's going to be
hard but possible to

314
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,437
make this society work given that

315
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,120
transforming it requires these technology

316
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,077
in some cases but it's like a long trip
and we're here and I'm the only one who

317
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,237
likes this weather is great weather.
I brought it for you. It's uh uh but um

318
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,317
they're here because they've seen their
business being transformed and this is

319
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,397
happening in America more than so we
have to win those battles but the costs

320
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,717
are going to be very high and so you
have to work back from okay the costs

321
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,877
are going to be very high >> we
we can't put oil on the fire it's

322
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,477
like you know it's like well getting
jobs for all Americans is going to be

323
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,437
hard and people maybe
who become Americans but

324
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,077
>> it's like you have to have different
policies around migration you have to

325
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,317
different policies around how we train
people like currently if you're a young

326
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,077
kid in high school and you're neurode
divergent they're literally tra chaining

327
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,117
you into your chair and feeding you
medication so you can have skills that

328
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,557
are not valuable. >> Yeah.
>> Like it's so it's like and then we'll

329
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,637
probably over time have to have like
a discussion of like yeah if you go into

330
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,997
this career >> you're
not going to have a job

331
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,757
>> like a really honest discussion about
that. These are the places where you

332
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,237
will likely have a job. >> Mhm. And yeah,

333
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:52,717
>> help me.

334
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:57,037
>> What uh you know, it seems like we

335
00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:00,237
as a country will probably head down a

336
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,677
more European path where it is becomes

337
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,517
very very difficult or near impossible
to let people go. Do you think that's

338
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,037
correct? >> In Germany,
in Germany, it's much harder

339
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,437
to to lay someone off.

340
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:14,957
>> And that does impact I mean, that does

341
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,637
impact the the growth of of companies.

342
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,317
>> Mhm. But I think many Germans
would argue that's probably

343
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,677
>> yeah, you know, Germany's I mean I
won't I'll answer your question. Germany's

344
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,157
interesting place. I did this thing
in German where I basically told the truth

345
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,157
which you're not allowed to do in Germany.
It was like you know it's kind

346
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,997
of really bad situation and the economy
sucks. The migration thing's a complete

347
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,877
disaster and the energy situation is

348
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,757
like compounds everything. And I got

349
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,237
thousands of people literally saying
thank god someone told the truth. Um,

350
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,637
and there are a lot of people like you
guys, young people building things that

351
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,197
feel hampered and and and are correct
to feel hampered. I I think the American

352
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,077
version, if we're not careful, is not
going to be the German version. I think

353
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,997
it's going to be hang the rich.

354
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,557
>> I It's like I think
it's going to be not

355
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,277
protect everybody else. It's going to be
like, look, this is too dangerous and

356
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,517
we're going to hang the rich but not
really help the poor. And in fairness to

357
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,917
the German version, like you know,
German like health insurance, insurance,

358
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,037
all that stuff, it works. Yeah,
>> like I was I was poor in Germany for

359
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:23,357
like a decade. And like I had I had
the best life on the planet. Like it was

360
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,757
like being poor in Germany is like being
better than being rich here in some days.

361
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,997
>> So basically policies that lift
the floor, re-education, training.

362
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,117
>> You're So if you want to do
what we could do here, yeah,

363
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,797
>> we the things we could adopt
from Germany are Germany has three high

364
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,397
schools. Yeah. Two are vocational.

365
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,037
>> Sure. >> One is academic,
>> better education,

366
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:45,597
>> better programmatic vocational.

367
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,317
Vocational. It also has a bad like
a weird vibe here. Like vocational

368
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,397
training in Germany is very technical.

369
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,877
Like the people building the cars at BMW
or even in the French version Airbus

370
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,877
like very complicated jobs. They didn't
go to college. They went to a very very

371
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,397
high-end high school and they come
out without any debt. And that stuff is

372
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,237
really valuable. So if you want you
you have to completely transform our

373
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,797
educational system and and go very young
into like training people to do things.

374
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,397
You also need to change our testing
system like different forms of

375
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,077
intelligence. All of our tests are built
around things that were valuable in the

376
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,357
industrial revolution. It's like you
want to pull out all the dyslexics, all

377
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,197
the neurode divergence. Everybody who
can't sit or needs to build or wants to

378
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,957
build have to go into a a separate slot
of like yeah we should have gotten you

379
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,237
before you got turned down at Coleman
and like said this is like that's a

380
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,877
waste of your time. You could
be building something important.

381
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,517
>> And uh what else
goes would be a part of

382
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,797
the good outcome? Well, the the the most

383
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,517
important part of a good outcome is we
show our adversaries you can't with

384
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,597
us and we're the best we have the best
military in the world. Hope I believe

385
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,077
we're doing that right now. On the good
outcome side, we yeah, we go around and

386
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,997
then on the commercial side, we go to all
these high infrastructure, you know,

387
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,677
hospitals, manufacturing, all these
things, complicated infrastructure and

388
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,117
we AI enhanced all of them. So
the products are legitimately the best in

389
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,797
the world and we rebuild manufacturing
in this country. Like a big problem for

390
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,237
us including on the battlefield is our
manufacturing just is not up to where we

391
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,357
have to be and that by the way requires

392
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,837
reskilling uh scaling humans and we're
doing this all over the place. I mean

393
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,117
the guy writing a lot of the scripts
for the target these people they're like

394
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,237
high school college grads the people
building batteries and all these things

395
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,357
using our products. These are high
school college grads. There's a lot of

396
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,957
opportunity there. But you know,
one of the things I told the Germans and I

397
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,237
would say to us is we I was like,
you know, Germany, you have to call it a

398
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,877
crisis. We do need like this is a crisis

399
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,077
moment. America is tomorrow is not going
to look like it looked at all or we're

400
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,997
going to have radicalism on right or left.
The the problem, the danger is if

401
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,237
we don't do these reforms, you are going
to get the pitchforks because that then

402
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,037
the only solution people are going
to have is well, you know, let's go after

403
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,917
the unlikable rich people in tech,
especially AI tech. And then but but

404
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,677
then what can work is yeah close the

405
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,477
borders keep them closed start doing

406
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,877
huge vocational efforts change how
we test aptitude like so we have an

407
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,597
accurate diagnostic of where you could
be slotted uh be ruthless in like you

408
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,597
know it's like in in certain find out
new ways to test and do ruthless testing

409
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,077
and slotting and then also go around
to universities and just I mean you know

410
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,717
how when you like you want to smoke
a cigarette it's like this this cigarette

411
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,077
may be harmful health maybe we should
be putting that in universities this

412
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,077
university. This this university
is harmful for your investment. You know,

413
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,237
I'm libertarian.
You want to go to university.

414
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,237
>> Student debt may be harmful to your
future financial for and your personal

415
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,397
life. Explain to someone you got
a million dollars in debt. A million

416
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,237
dollars in debt. I mean, maybe if you're
69 and you you can [laughter] get away

417
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,717
with that, but the rest
of us have to provide.

418
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,957
>> That's funny. Uh uh help me square
this idea. You you were you were talking

419
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,277
earlier today about uh people
misunderstanding your business and

420
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,157
>> Yeah. What's it like
to read about your business?

421
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,237
>> Oh, I mean, first of all, it's I mean,

422
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,477
the part I I I hate it, but then the

423
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,077
part I love is and it's like your

424
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:11,677
valuable

425
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,637
your your value is pretty directly con

426
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,717
uh convergent with people's inability
to understand what you're doing.

427
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,397
>> Yeah. >> So, it's like it's like
all these technologies are potentially

428
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,997
commodifying everything. Yeah.

429
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,277
>> Okay. So if you are a business that is

430
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,757
you know not services not product but

431
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,237
both but also works on tribal knowledge

432
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:37,597
on data and every single business you
make is individual and so yeah that's a

433
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,917
crazy valuable business. >> That's
true in a lot of industries where

434
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,757
if the broader business community
doesn't understand your business, you

435
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,837
might have a short report but you'll
have way less competition because people

436
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,797
aren't copying you. They don't understand.
impossible to copy certain

437
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,117
like like and and and we we
neglect this like you know um

438
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,717
>> almost like you even see it culturally
like luxury products dominated by the

439
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,557
French watches dominated by the Swiss
currently certain kinds of war fighting

440
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,557
dominated by America and it's like it's
it's very hard for people to evviscerate

441
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,637
these cultural advantages and our
products augment that which makes it

442
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,037
>> uh you know it augments the the
differentiated specific over the

443
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,877
generalizable and and and that's where
literally all the value is going to go

444
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,837
and it's going to be like a waterfall
and that that's the problem with a lot

445
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,357
of software companies. It's like it's

446
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,637
like product ABCT but um but but then

447
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,117
when you read it it's like like one of
the more depressing things that you guys

448
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,557
probably confront but it's like a market
market huge market opportunity for you.

449
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,637
It's like where are the experts? Like
it's like, you know, it's like there's

450
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,837
it's like, you know, you you hope
and pray. Like I'll tell you the funniest

451
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,677
thing about my life now and people
internally know almost every day I'm

452
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,917
like wait a minute I'm the adult
in the room here. [laughter]

453
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,157
It's like everywhere I go it's like it's

454
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,117
like wait a minute I like I and it's

455
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,757
like there it's like and and it's so
it's it's surreal when you read about

456
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,357
these things but and it's it used
to really frustrate me but now I kind of

457
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,037
just think well like I can't believe
we're still viewed as crazy. It's like

458
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,917
everything we're doing is the only thing
that's working. I mean like I don't want

459
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,317
to like spend a lot of time on our

460
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,437
baller accentual essentially baller

461
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,317
numbers from last year but it's like you

462
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,757
know clearly our works clearly

463
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,157
nothing is working at that level and you
would think they would take like I don't

464
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,957
know 10 minutes to think okay well
the thing I believed and I thought would

465
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,677
work didn't work at all this thing I
thought was insane is [clears throat]

466
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,557
has like a rule of 127 when like no one

467
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,277
like 40 is considered like and like but

468
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,677
they don't and and And then and I Yeah,

469
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,677
but it's sometimes frustrating honestly.

470
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,957
And the hard part actually is I kind of

471
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,157
view it as a feature. Uh internally we
get these brighteyed kids. So it's so

472
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,197
funny. I mean the one get
the best people in the world.

473
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,117
>> But you know just
like I was probably at

474
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,197
21. They're very romantic.
It's like but why does the adult

475
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,757
>> not understand this?
>> It's like but but but the adult expert

476
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,797
tells me. is like I don't know when you
guys had the drop the shoe moment when

477
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,517
you realized that like the adults are like
you know on crack or something [laughter]

478
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,557
like

479
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,597
>> okay uh last question would you rather

480
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,117
have $10 million or access to chatbt in

481
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:25,297
2012 it's a viral question
that's going viral right now

482
00:27:25,380 --> 00:27:28,717
[laughter] >> I have to choose one
or the other like I mean okay I'm just

483
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,637
>> I don't think he needs I don't
[laughter] I don't think he needs can I

484
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,717
could I have my social
life in grad school.

485
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,317
>> Oh, there we go. Okay.
So, that's on your >> new pick.

486
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,197
>> We [laughter] just have to ask >> like,
you know, it's like great. I I got

487
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,717
to take something I valued. >> Okay.
Yeah. The most valuable thing,

488
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,277
your social life and grad school. Well,
thank you so much for taking the time to

489
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,517
come with us. It's fantastic. Love you.

490
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,160
We'll talk to you