1
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,597
If you have a dog that gets picky about
food, you know how frustrating that can

2
00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:12,477
be. You put the bowl down, they sniff it,
walk away, and now you're trying to

3
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,397
figure out if they're bored,
if they don't like it, or if they're just

4
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,557
holding out for something better.

5
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,877
Sunday's just launched a brand new fish

6
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,797
recipe designed for dogs with

7
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,317
sensitivities, picky eating habits, or

8
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,397
parents looking to add more variety to

9
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,117
the bowl. It's made with 80% whole and

10
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,757
minced fish, including eco-friendly

11
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,077
invasive carp sourced from American

12
00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:38,957
rivers. And it's packed with omega-3

13
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,117
fatty acids to help support healthy

14
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,397
skin, shiny coats, joints, and brain

15
00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:49,357
function. Like every Sunday's recipe,
it's human-grade, vet developed, and

16
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,357
gently air dried instead of heavily

17
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,477
processed. No synthetic additives, no

18
00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,437
meat meals, no artificial flavors, and

19
00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,757
no fillers. Stanley's been loving it,

20
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,797
too. What do you think, Stanley? You

21
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,517
like Sundays? For dog owners, it's

22
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,157
simple, too. No fridge, no thawing, no

23
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,397
prep. Just scoop and serve. Make the

24
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,957
switch to Sundays. Go right now to

25
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,477
sundaysfordd dogs.com/srs50

26
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,757
and get 50% off your first order. Or you

27
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,477
can use code SRS50 at checkout. That's

28
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,480
50% off your first order
at sundaysfordogs.com/srs50.

29
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,840
sundaysfordogs.com/srs50

30
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,117
or use code srs50 at checkout.

31
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,357
When you run a business, you track every

32
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,837
dollar and your bank shouldn't make that

33
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,557
harder or hold you back. Chime is

34
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,397
changing the way people bank by offering

35
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,597
the most rewarding fee free banking.

36
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,997
It's built for you, not like these old

37
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,797
banks. No overdraft fees, no monthly

38
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,517
fees, and access to thousands of feef

39
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,277
free ATMs. With Chime, you can get up to

40
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,437
$1,150

41
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,117
in annual rewards fee free. You get 5%

42
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,117
cash back on your Chime card in a

43
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,997
category of your choice, like gas or

44
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,557
groceries. Your savings grow faster with

45
00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:17,037
a 3.75% APY.
That's nine times higher than the

46
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,437
national average. You also get premium

47
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,237
travel perks like airport lounge access

48
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,357
and a 24/7 concierge and access up to

49
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,957
$500 of your pay early with my pay.

50
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,677
Chime is rated five stars by USA Today

51
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,357
for customer service, real humans 24/7.

52
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,917
And you're not just switching banks,

53
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,557
you're upgrading to America's number one
choice for banking with a Chime checking

54
00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:49,037
account. Chime is not just smarter
banking. It is the most rewarding way to

55
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,677
bank. Join the millions who are
already banking feef free today. Head to

56
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,917
chime.comsrs.

57
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,877
That's chime.com/srs.
It only takes a few minutes to sign up.

58
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,557
Chime is a fintech, not a bank.
Banking services for my pay and Chime card

59
00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:05,757
provided by Chime's bank partners.

60
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,557
Optional products and services may
have fees or charges. Stated annual

61
00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:11,517
percentage yield and cash back for Chime
Prime only. No minimum balance required.

62
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,717
Checking account ranking based on a JD
Power survey published October 20th,

63
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,077
2025. For more information on APY rates,
my pay, spot me, and travel perks, go to

64
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,160
chime.com/disclosures.

65
00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,197
>> Palmer Lucky, welcome to the show.

66
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,157
>> Thank you for having me.
I'm so incredibly stoked to be here.

67
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,277
>> I'm pumped to have you here.

68
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,957
>> It's so different when it's not
on a screen, you know. Do you watch it? Do

69
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,957
you watch the show? So, I don't watch
podcasts regularly in general, but I I

70
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,877
I've seen yours from time to time.
Of course, I had to tune in for Trump. Um,

71
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,757
and uh it's just it's it's it's a you
know, I'm a virtual reality guy and so,

72
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,717
you know, I understand the difference
between thing that's on a flat screen

73
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,637
versus 3D, but it's it's just
so cool to to be here in person.

74
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,277
>> Oh, thank you. Thank you.
We'll do the next one in VR.

75
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,797
>> Well, teach me how to do it. Well, I
would love to be the first one to do that.

76
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,277
>> I I'll I'll set it up. I'll set it up.

77
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,157
>> Right on. Yeah. So we you're a tech

78
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,357
titan and uh we had Joe Lndale on a

79
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,517
couple months ago. Amazing human love.

80
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,877
>> Amazing. And people should just know my
bias. Joe was one of the first investors

81
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,117
in my first company, Oculus. So back
when I was a teenager, he put millions

82
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,997
of dollars into my company at a time
where very few people did. This was his

83
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,557
last VC firm, Formation 8, which has now

84
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,757
kind of evolved into 8 VC. So, uh, I I I

85
00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:42,077
love I love Joe and, uh, I like to think
Joe loves me and we've had a really

86
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,077
we've had a really productive and
profitable relationship over the years.

87
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,837
>> Very cool. Well, he was a fascinating
interview and then and then you came up

88
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,677
and I was like, "Dude, we got we've got

89
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,317
to get this guy. He's like the Tony

90
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,517
Stark but real." So,

91
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,677
>> Tony Stark, except Tony Stark got out
of building weapons and I moved into it.

92
00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,557
So, yeah, we're we're a little bit in
reverse, but uh but but I I I I I like I

93
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,557
like the comparison. >> Yeah.
Yeah. Well, everybody starts off

94
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,437
with an introduction here. So, here we

95
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,917
go. Palmer Lucky from
a from garage inventor

96
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,157
to Silicon Valley Titan, a true

97
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,397
innovator and disruptor in technology

98
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,357
and defense. founded Andural Industries

99
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,237
in 2017 to radically transform defense

100
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,717
capabilities of the United States and

101
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,437
its allies by fusing AI with the latest

102
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,757
hardware advancements across many

103
00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,037
domains. Designer of Oculus Rift, a

104
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,357
virtual reality headmounted display and

105
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,837
founder of Oculus VR, which was acquired

106
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,197
by Facebook for over $2 billion.

107
00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,357
attended Golden West College in Long

108
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,957
Beach City College at the age of 14 and

109
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,197
studied at California State University,

110
00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:58,157
Long Beach before dropping out to build

111
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,477
Oculus VR. That seems to be like uh
that seems to be the thing with all of you

112
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,637
tech innovators as you
drop out of school. And

113
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,517
>> the only difference between me and all
the other tech guys is they were mostly

114
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,277
going to school for tech degrees.
I was, if you can believe it, a journalism

115
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,917
major. I was the online editor of the
Daily 49er, which was the Cal State Long

116
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,917
Journalism. I was going to do journalism.
I was even as a teenager

117
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,517
frustrated with the state of journalism
in America, particularly technology

118
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,037
journalism. I think the thing that

119
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,637
radicalized me was this CNN piece about

120
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,957
a uh about this. I think this was back
when you had the the iCloud hacks and

121
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,357
they were reporting on how 4chan was
affiliated with it. And uh they had this

122
00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,357
technology analyst who's paid six figures,
which was a lot of money at the

123
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,957
time, you know, when I was going
to school. He paid six figures to live in

124
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,197
New York City and analyze technology.

125
00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:52,877
And the anchor says, "So, who is this
for Chan?" And I'm like, "Oh my god,

126
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,637
this is nuts." And then what does he say?
He says, "Well, we don't know the

127
00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,357
details yet, but he's some kind
of system administrator, someone who knows

128
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,277
his way around computers and how to hack
things." And I was like, "Oh my god,

129
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,037
like technology journalism
is going down the

130
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,637
shitter." And I wanted to be part I
wanted to be part of the solution. So,

131
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,757
it's it's a I'm glad that I I'm glad I
decided to build technology rather than

132
00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,037
uh report on it. I think being the man
in the arena is a lot more fun and a lot

133
00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,917
more rewarding. But yeah,
it's interesting to imagine a world where

134
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,157
where I'd be I'd be in your chair.

135
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,517
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well,
who knows? Maybe one day.

136
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,957
>> Maybe one day when I'm all when I'm
all when I'm all old and used up, I can I

137
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,837
can I can uh I can uh I I can get my own

138
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,837
studio and I I'll have you on.

139
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,237
>> Cool. known for your unconventional

140
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,037
approach, love for gadgets, and belief
in using technology to push boundaries,

141
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,117
whether for entertainment or national

142
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,957
security. So, man, I don't even I mean,

143
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,117
we're going to do a life story on you.

144
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,717
Fascinating human being. I can already
tell with what the 30 minutes that

145
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,717
you've been here just when we were
down shooting the thumbnails and and uh

146
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,957
>> I've been very blessed
to have an interesting life.

147
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,677
>> So, couple of couple of off-the-wall

148
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,917
things that came up there down there.

149
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,117
So, you are,

150
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,437
look, we had a little conspiracy theory

151
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,597
talk down there. You were talking about

152
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,797
Trudeau and Castro and let's go into
that before we get into the weeds here.

153
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,037
>> We'll jump right into the crazy [__]
All right. So, I mean, I look, I'll I'll

154
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,037
put my I'll put my biases right out

155
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,837
there. I think Justin Trudeau is

156
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,077
Castro's son, but you can almost set

157
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,837
that aside cuz that's not the issue I
really care about. Is it really Castro's

158
00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,357
fault or sorry, is it really Trudeau's
fault if he's Castro's son? Like I don't

159
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,557
believe in the sins of the father,
right? I mean, I I I like I don't think

160
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,077
he really should necessarily have to live
his life burdened by that if it was

161
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,917
true. Like I can understand why someone
would would want to hide that. And like

162
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,917
that's one issue. I'll set that aside.

163
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,797
The real question has always been
for me, why is this conspiracy theory

164
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,997
reported on it the way that it was?
And we were talking about this like let

165
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,237
let's say that it's let's
say it's not true. Okay, fine.

166
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,757
But if you go and you look at any
of the press coverage of this conspiracy

167
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,597
theory, they make you believe through
their reporting that anyone who believes

168
00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:17,437
it must be truly nuts. They're like
digging deep on this conspiracy theory

169
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,757
and then what follows is the most
surface level thing that takes every

170
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,437
official communication at state value
and doesn't even look at the evidence

171
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,877
that conspiracy theorists are actually
analyzing. You know, they'll say, well,

172
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,037
you know, it's very clear. the records
are clear. True, uh, uh, Trudeau's

173
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,437
mother didn't even visit Cuba until 40
years after he was born. It's like, but

174
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,557
that's not the conspiracy. The conspiracy
theory is that in the flight

175
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,557
logs, that one trip that was logged
as Caribbean island and doesn't have a

176
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,997
country name, unlike every single other
thing in the log, that that was Cuba.

177
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,757
The conspiracy theory is that maybe
it was when she went to his house in

178
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,037
France. Like, like that's the conspiracy.
And they they literally

179
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,437
don't mention it. And it makes me wonder
why are they going to such great lengths

180
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,197
to make this seem not just that like
because you can analyze those and say

181
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,037
well actually here's why and you know it
was probably filled out by the by the by

182
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,717
the by the FBO and they just didn't
know where it had been and like there are

183
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,997
reasonable ways to go after it. But the
way they've gone after it is to pretend

184
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,917
that you're insane if you believe
this conspiracy theory. And I think that

185
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,437
really gets back >> every isn't
that just about every conspiracy theory?

186
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,637
>> I mean it's certainly the I mean
you know where the phrase comes from

187
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,037
conspiracy theory. I mean, the the term

188
00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,597
conspiracy theory itself and conspiracy

189
00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:32,877
theorist was invented by the CIA and

190
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,757
used and pushed through their media
plants to discredit anybody who

191
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,877
questioned the results of the original
JFK investigation. And again, it gets to

192
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,117
this thing I Okay, I set aside whether
or not there was a second shooter,

193
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,597
whether there was anyone on the grass
and all. Let's say that the official

194
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:49,917
story really is accurate. It's pretty

195
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,637
extraordinary that conspiracy theory,

196
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,957
conspiracy theorists are themselves

197
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,437
literally terms born of a government

198
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,637
conspiracy. Uh it's it's it makes it

199
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,877
makes you wonder. People say, "Well,
sure, the CIA had 30 media assets back

200
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,557
then, including, you know, national news
anchors." But I mean, that's not how it

201
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,597
is today. >> Yeah. Right.
>> Is [laughter] it? Is it?

202
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:15,917
>> Right. >> Yeah.
That that that's why I like the

203
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,877
Trudeau theory. And you know, there's
other ones like we talked about the

204
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,037
Camala Harris DNC pipe bomb and like >>
Yeah. What? I didn't I haven't followed

205
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,437
that much. >> You've got
to look into this one because

206
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,997
and I'm I'm very I'm really stoked that
we got Trump in office and that we have

207
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,037
uh we have people coming to the FBI who
are going to be able to dig into this.

208
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,117
But you the official story according to

209
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,437
the government which is that there was a

210
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,477
live active and dangerous pipe bomb

211
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:44,157
planted by extremists outside of DNC

212
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,797
headquarters on January 6th. that Camala

213
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,037
Harris passed within just several feet

214
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,637
of that bomb and that they managed to

215
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,117
save her, diffuse it, and and destroy it.
But there's so many problems with

216
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,517
this story. For example, you'll remember
that originally Camala Harris through

217
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,197
her council testified that she wasn't

218
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,077
even at DNC headquarters on January 6th.

219
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,797
You'll also see in the video footage

220
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,357
that's captured of the pipe bomb that
after it was called in and after Secret

221
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,557
Service was on site, you have Secret
Service and Capital Police just standing

222
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,317
around the bomb with their thumbs
in their pockets talking to each other. At

223
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,677
one point, the Capital Police walk
to their car and eat their lunch. A group

224
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,357
of children walks by. They don't block
off the street. They don't they don't be

225
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,517
like, "Hey, don't walk by that pipe bomb

226
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,317
right there." It it the whole thing is

227
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,837
it reeks. it it couldn't possibly be

228
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,717
what they say happened. And then this

229
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,437
gets to kind of the second layer. Okay,
again, ignore whether it was planted by

230
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,037
the feds or planted by somebody else
or planted by extremists or maybe they

231
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,917
found out it was planted by some foreign
government agent. That's a government

232
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,677
that like it's hard to pick exactly
which conspiracy you want to believe in.

233
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,197
But there's a simple question. Why has

234
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,357
Camala Harris never talked about it even

235
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,797
one time? She has so much to say about

236
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,917
January 6. So much to say about people
who were just protesting at the capital.

237
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,037
Nothing [snorts] to say about the feds
who were planted in, you know, in that

238
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,397
whole op. But but like why focus on

239
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,357
things like the people who were

240
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,837
protesting in front of the capital
building when you could just say, "Oh

241
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,077
yeah, they literally tried to kill me."

242
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,557
like right right-wing extremists planted

243
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,437
bombs outside of my party headquarters
and got within five feet of killing me.

244
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,237
Like wouldn't is it wouldn't you say that?
Like imagine if that happened to

245
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,677
Trump. Trump would be melting it for all
it's worth. And I love the guy, but I

246
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,597
mean he'd say and they almost got me.

247
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:42,477
You know, maybe it wasn't 5t. People
say it's 5t. I think it was 2 feet. You

248
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,157
know, maybe I looked at it. Maybe I
looked at it and said I think that's a

249
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,637
bomb. And maybe I'm the one who caught

250
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,277
you. he would be he would be he would be
talking about this and the fact it's not

251
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,677
talked about like someone has realized
that it's not a good idea to talk about

252
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,677
whatever happened because it's probably
not what they told the public and so to

253
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,877
me this is like one of the most
interesting conspiracy theories because

254
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,437
it's very rare for them to touch people
at Camala's level right it's there's

255
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,117
lots of conspiracies about like what

256
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,277
what an ATF unit does or what some group

257
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,597
of state department goons did it's very

258
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,437
very rare that the vice president of the

259
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,957
United States has their proximity
and seal of approval on the actions of the

260
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:26,797
day. >> Yeah, that's a damn good point.

261
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,677
>> Yeah, you you you've got to look
into this and and and watch the video. I

262
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,917
think like you you your your your uh
your watchers would probably love to see

263
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,117
like you could just ask yourself like
wait a sec if if they if they know it's

264
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,637
a live pipe bomb. Like you're watching
video like how why are they doing what

265
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:45,357
I'm watching them doing? How like
this only makes sense if it's a bizarre

266
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,117
conspiracy. I can't wait till everything
comes out on all this stuff. You know,

267
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,157
>> I'm so concerned that it's going to be
like the JFK files, there's going to be

268
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,717
two missing boxes and they're
going to say, "Oh, well, it's all

269
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,157
>> I think a lot
of people are worried that

270
00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,477
the the shredders worked overtime before
they got in and the digital shredders

271
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,557
and all." >> You ever been
involved in litigation?

272
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,637
>> No. >> So, one of the
things that's interesting

273
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,917
particularly with criminal criminal I
I've so I've been through I whenever you

274
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,317
make money, people come after you.
They come out of the woodwork and they sue

275
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,237
you for, you know, oh, you copied my

276
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,637
idea. Oh, you're infringing on my patent

277
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,477
in Germany. Um, and uh, I've won all of

278
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,757
the cases that mattered in the end
or got them thrown out by the judge. But

279
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,237
one of the things that I had to learn
over the years, and by the way, I've

280
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,317
been to a verdict in federal court

281
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,117
twice. So, uh, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm

282
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,517
I'm unfortunately I'm pretty well
well acquainted with the rules. If you

283
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:41,197
destroy evidence, the way that the court
interprets it is in the least favorable

284
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,917
light. They basically assume that
whatever was destroyed is as bad as it

285
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,277
could possibly be. Otherwise, there's
an incentive to destroy. Like, if you

286
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,397
assume, [snorts] oh, it's not the worst
possible thing. What was destroyed?

287
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,117
Maybe it was only halfway there
and that's how we're going to weight this.

288
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,757
>> Yeah. Unless it's the government
destroying the evidence.

289
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,477
>> And and and that's one of those like
I wish that they would look at it that way

290
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,317
and say, "No, no. when a box of evidence
is missing on something and it's the

291
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,397
government and they were committing

292
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,517
these actions happens to be at the JFK

293
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,157
>> you like you should assume the worst
I'm not even saying that we should assume

294
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,157
the worst as people I'm saying
the criminal justice system should assume

295
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,117
the worst because otherwise they're
going to keep doing this like you you

296
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,277
need to say no the box of missing papers
does not get you out of hot [__] the box

297
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,197
of missing papers is the indictment it
is the thing that you go to prison for

298
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,437
life for when you lose the files

299
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,197
on the JFK investigation. Like that is

300
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,357
that is way more important to the

301
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,317
national fabric and unity of America and

302
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,557
and people's trust in government than

303
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,597
any simple crime ever could be.
You know, like that cover up is so much

304
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,797
worse than anything that people go
to prison for life for every day.

305
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,317
>> You think they're going to do it or I
guess it would be already gone now that

306
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,237
now that they >> You mean are
they are they going to hide it?

307
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,237
>> Yeah. >> I I I think
it's what you said. I think

308
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,957
the shredders are working overtime and I
think I think they're looking what's

309
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,637
happening with US Aid and they're
probably saying, "Oh [__] you know that

310
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:09,117
the Doge Boys are coming they're
coming here next. Uh we we we got to do

311
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,397
something." >> Well,
I mean they they already I mean

312
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,157
are you familiar with Blackwater at all?

313
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,837
>> Oh, very familiar. And yeah, and I
I've I've had the pleasure of meeting Eric

314
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,277
Prince a few times. Actually,
even before I started Androl, I asked him,

315
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:23,837
"What should Andre build?" Um

316
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,797
>> what did he say? Should I say

317
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,837
I think I think I I I think I can say

318
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,997
it. Um, we talked about a few different
things, but one of the things that he

319
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,877
thought would be a good technological
innovation would be artillery that is

320
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,077
actively cooled in such a way that you
don't have any cool down intervals. Like

321
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,477
what if you could have an artillery
piece that works at maximum mechanical

322
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,477
uh, you know, interval? like it has
a very high cyclic rate artillery that

323
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,797
never needs to cool down and never goes
down for uh you know never goes down for

324
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,317
maintenance like something that can like

325
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,037
auto swap a lot of the consumables. His

326
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,077
point was uh that artillery is limited a

327
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,077
lot in that in that respect and that you
can only get off so many rounds at a

328
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,037
time from a single piece and that it
would be a huge game changer on the

329
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:14,797
battlefield. At the time it was that was
not the type you I was looking at how I

330
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,917
could apply mostly artificial
intelligence and autonomy to AI. Like

331
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,637
the name of my company, Andreal
Industries. You'll note the acronym is

332
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,637
AI, but we had to hide it because back
then AI was a kind of a dirty word in

333
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,117
tech. Everyone thought it was never
coming, never going to work. So we

334
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,117
couldn't talk about it. Um I ended up
not building it, but I look back now and

335
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,397
say, [__] you know, that probably would
have been a really useful thing to have

336
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,717
in Ukraine, especially in the early days
of the war. Um but yeah and of course

337
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,720
read his read his book
uh Civilian Warriors.

338
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,437
>> Yeah. So the reason
I bring it up, we're

339
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,197
talking about the government deleting
evidence and so you know kind of the

340
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,117
downfall of Blackwater was that Nur

341
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:06,637
Square incident. I think it was back
in 2007 when they they tried those guys.

342
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,957
>> That [clears throat] was when they were
taking fire and then they responded and

343
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,877
there were there ended up
being civilian casualties.

344
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,517
>> Yeah. They made it out to be like a big
like a bunch of Blackwater cas they made

345
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,637
it sound like they just rolled into
an intersection just like did like a drive

346
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,477
by shooting or something. It was in that
>> So they deleted the drone footage.

347
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,637
>> Really? >> Yeah. There was actually a

348
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,877
>> somehow that hadn't even
made it into my longterm memory.

349
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,357
>> Yeah. A lot of people don't know.
And so the the there was a green ber green

350
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,677
green beret unit that was actually
taking contact just just uh I can't

351
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,597
remember if it was like a couple

352
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,357
kilometers or a couple thousand meters

353
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,197
away but um but basically when that they

354
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:44,957
had that drone on station so they

355
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,277
brought it over and they've they deleted

356
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:54,237
there's like a 5minut 10 minute segment
of drone footage where you actually see

357
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,397
the vehicle. >> So short
enough that this clearly wasn't

358
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,797
just like lost data. It's they want that

359
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,917
>> and then the very specific like portion

360
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,677
of the drone footage that showed the

361
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,557
actual gunfight was deleted. You can see

362
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,437
where the vehicle rolled up and then it
cuts out and then it goes away and you

363
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,437
can even see where you know where
the radiator fluid and stuff had been had

364
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,557
been leaking out from the
vehicle getting shot up.

365
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,557
>> And in court they're like, "Well, where

366
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,997
is this drone footage?" and they said,

367
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,077
"Oh, we routinely we we routinely delete

368
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,477
drone footage uh just to save memory."

369
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,797
And they're like, "So, you just
happened to just delete the just that

370
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,797
>> just the 10-minute segment that shows
the actual gunfight and everything

371
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,557
before and everything after still there?"
And those guys wound up getting

372
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,117
pardoned by Trump. But they sent one one

373
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,757
to prison for life, three for >>
the actual guys in the square, not the

374
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,357
people that deleted
the drone footage to be.

375
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,277
>> Yeah, the guys in the square.
They who deleted the drone footage.

376
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,397
>> I don't think they I don't think
they did. I mean, those guys ran out of

377
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,157
money. That one of the attorneys that
was on the case was kind of doing a pro

378
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,437
bono by the end of it. And >> see,
these are the things that undermine

379
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,157
confidence in of just America for

380
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,717
Americans. People wonder why we lose
confidence in our institutions. Like, it

381
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,077
it is [__] like that. Like that's almost
worse than those guys going to prison is

382
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,597
the fact that everyone watched people in
the state do that, get away with it, and

383
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,637
probably do it again. >> Yeah.
I mean, it's not even at the

384
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:27,277
highest level. Then we then we brought
in this guy, uh, Captain Brad Giri. He

385
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:31,197
was the he was the commanding officer,
Naval Special Warfare Training Center,

386
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,357
which is Buds. And couple years ago,

387
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,437
they had that um they had that Buds

388
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,317
candidate uh who died in training. And

389
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,757
they So, it turns out he likely died
from performance-enhancing drugs that he

390
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,037
was sourcing from out of the country.
In fact, he had a cooler in his car with

391
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,597
all this [__] And they made it sound
like the training was too hard. It was

392
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,957
all this Yep. >> all Captain Gir's fault.

393
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,197
>> And they reinvestigated it three
different They basically just they

394
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,117
reinvestigated, I believe, three times.

395
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,117
Yep. And they just kept doing it until
they got the performance-enhancing drugs

396
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,677
out of the investigation. And once
>> there's some procedural error or we

397
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,277
weren't allowed to have that. >> Then
they pinned his ass to the wall and

398
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:15,277
and we wound up exposing it on the show.

399
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,237
Now the case has been totally dismissed
and looks like he's going to get his

400
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,877
retirement, his ranking. >> I I
don't know where you fall on this. I

401
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,877
need to look more into that one.
I don't know where you fall on this, but

402
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,997
generally like we should be allowing
these guys to use performance-enhancing

403
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,357
drugs and it should be on the level
where we know about it and it's

404
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,357
monitored and like like that that cuz
like the reality is people are going to

405
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,437
be using these things and there's ways
to use them that are pretty safe and

406
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,117
probably increase their probability
of living in general, but we've just we've

407
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,957
treated that whole category like the

408
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,797
whole category of making your body, you
know, better is just like it's it's just

409
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,957
it's just not >> I'm not
against it, but it's got to be

410
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,997
done Right. And if that played a part
in >> Well, the key is it has to like we

411
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,877
should be doing it and we should
be doing it right. We shouldn't we

412
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,237
shouldn't be driving it into the shadows
so that people are hiding it from their

413
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,077
doctor, hiding it from their unit,
hiding it from everybody. And now nobody

414
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,997
has like I mean I don't want to be like
I don't want to be I don't want to be

415
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,477
like too mean here but like do you think
Marines are the right guys to be you

416
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,557
know measuring out dosages of this stuff?
you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm being

417
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,637
unfair, but like, you know, you you you
can play to the stereotype really easily

418
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,717
here. It's like like are is is that the

419
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,757
guy you trust to get it right every
single time to get the math just so and

420
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,037
with with with with people's lives on
the line? No, you should like you should

421
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,157
have a doctor who's responsible for that
and they should say, "Hey, your job is

422
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,837
not to is not to, you know, have this
stuff hidden from you. It's to make sure

423
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,477
that it's being done in a safe
way that's increasing their combat

424
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,597
effectiveness, increasing their
probability of living to see their

425
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,317
families. >> Yeah. Yeah.
All right. So, uh, so I got

426
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,237
a a Patreon account. They're basically
our it's a subscription account. They're

427
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,397
our top they're our top supporters been
with us since the beginning and, uh, we

428
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,077
built we built quite the community over
there. The behind the scenes segment

429
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,917
that you did them up. Yeah. >> So,
one of the things I do is I offer

430
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,677
them the opportunity to ask each
and every guest a question. This is from

431
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,637
Mel. My 15-year-old son thinks you are

432
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,037
amazing and inspiring. My son is really

433
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,277
into electronics and building things,

434
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:20,077
but not as much into coding. What advice
would you give him that might help him

435
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,677
and other kids like him when he's
thinking about when he's thinking about

436
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,317
building skills early to do epic things

437
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,957
like you with his life? Well, good news
for him. I'm not much of a coder either.

438
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,637
I'm more of a hardware guy. More of an

439
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,597
electrooptical mechanical guy. Um, and

440
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,237
so my I think he's in a fine place
to not necessarily be a great coder,

441
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,997
especially with how things are going
with AI. Like the actual act of coding

442
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,517
is going to become less and less
important to being able to build things.

443
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,397
I'm I'm not saying that you're not
going to still have programmers. I'm not

444
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,637
saying that you're uh going to have
everything done by AI. But when you're

445
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,277
talking about, you know, the types
of coding that I had to learn to do, like

446
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,517
gluing together bits of firmware, making
my Arduino, well, the Arduino wasn't big

447
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,117
when I was when I was his age. But,
you know, what what did you just say?

448
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,917
>> Arduino. It's it's the thing that all
the kids are using these days. It's it's

449
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,317
a it's a it's an it's a quasi open-

450
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,037
source microcontroller kit that allows
you to interface uh different types of

451
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,877
sensors with compute. So like like if
you wanted to build an automated bird

452
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,997
feeder in my day, you would have gone
out and been like, "Okay, I'm going to

453
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,997
build a 555 microcontroller circuit with
a timer and an interrupt and I'm going

454
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,437
to build a thing where the bird flies
in and it put dispenses feed or it

455
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,957
dispenses feed, you know, every 12 hours
if no birds come by." And we would have

456
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,597
done that all by scratch. These days,
a kid would go and buy an Arduino and they

457
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,037
would probably plug in like the motor
and they plug in the sensor and then

458
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,357
they would write a little bit of code
that says if the, you know, if the uh

459
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,037
resistance level coming off of this
sensor, you know, if the resistance

460
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,917
drops to this, that means something's
blocking it. That means that it's

461
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,677
probably a bird. Then trigger this motor,
you know, fire this relay, give

462
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,397
it the voltage for this long, this many
seconds. Uh like the that that's the

463
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:01,837
kind of way you would do it these days.

464
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,917
And so I'm saying that type of coding,
you don't need to be very good. Like you

465
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,997
you you need to know enough to get by.

466
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,677
Think about like, you know, you might
not know enough to design a car engine,

467
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,957
but you know enough to clean a carburetor.
That's the type of coder I

468
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,197
was. And so uh I think his son is in a
perfectly fine place. The most important

469
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,837
advice that I can give people is to work

470
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,037
on projects that you care about.

471
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,637
Don't look to school, whether it's

472
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,637
college or the statemandated, you know,
younger educational system. Don't look

473
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,757
to them to tell you, "Here's what
electronics projects you should be

474
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,277
working on. Here's what you should be
doing to learn how to do these things."

475
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:43,597
Cuz one, they're often years or even
decades behind what industry and

476
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,317
hobbyists are actually doing. So, you're
going to be learning how to do things

477
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,797
that are ancient. Two,
when you're working on something that

478
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,077
you're only doing for yourself, you're
going to make way better decisions. I

479
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,677
generally find in what you teach
yourself, in how you do things. Like

480
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,397
when I when I hire people at Andreal,
I look for people who have done projects

481
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,277
that were outside of what their work
paid them to do or what their school

482
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,637
made them do because that means they're
the type of person who is willing to

483
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,917
work on things with their own money
and their own time because they want to

484
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,277
bring something into this world that
wouldn't have existed otherwise. And to

485
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,317
me, those are the projects that people
like that's what drives you to learn the

486
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,317
most. It's what drives you to have the

487
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,757
right attitude around all this stuff.

488
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,357
So, uh, I would say like don't

489
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,797
don't do what I did, which was like I I
did some I, you know, I started going to

490
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,677
college. I was 14 or 15 and I took some

491
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,637
robotics courses, which in hindsight,
like I don't regret taking them, but I

492
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,917
think the time that I spent taking those
robotics courses would have been better

493
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,117
put into self-guided,

494
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,037
self-directed uh, uh, efforts. And that's
especially true in the modern day

495
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,637
of the internet. all these things
that like in my era were not as widely

496
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,597
available and you kind of had to go,
you know, talk to a professor about it.

497
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,357
There's a YouTuber who can teach
you even better. There's a there's an

498
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,917
Instructibles guide. Heck, there's
probably a lot of people on Patreon, you

499
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,877
know. There's there there's there's I
mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of

500
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,837
creators on on Patreon who are who are
putting out really interesting guides,

501
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,997
really interesting education. So yeah,
I I would tell your son like encourage him

502
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,037
to work on the things that he's
interested in and don't rely on other

503
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,717
people telling him what he should be
working on. And don't sweat the fact

504
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,677
that he's not doing much or any coding.

505
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,597
There is lots of stuff you can create
in the technology world when you're a bad

506
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,317
coder. It just means he's going to have
to go find a really good programmer as

507
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,597
his co-founder. That's all. >> Right on.
Right on. Well, I'm sure he's

508
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,677
going to get a lot out of that.
So, got a little gift for you.

509
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,397
>> Oh, boy. Yeah. Yeah.

510
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,597
>> Those are uh vigilant gummy bears.

511
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,197
Little something for the flight home.

512
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,597
>> Now, there's no like caffeine
in these or anything, right?

513
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,717
>> No. No funny business. >> I mean,
there's a bunch of [__] that's

514
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,317
unhealthy for you, like sugar.

515
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,077
>> So, what's good
what's good about these?

516
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,397
>> What's Taste them. >> All right.
I'm going to taste them.

517
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,197
>> Open them up. I've uh I've
been a big fan of European

518
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,077
gummy bears in the past because they
don't use uh they don't use um all the

519
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,037
stuff that they use in the United States.

520
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,197
>> These are good. >> Those are
made right here in the United States.

521
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,877
>> And you're not using a I can tell you
don't have like a bunch of mineral oil

522
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,677
on these as an anti-caking
or anti-sticking agent, do you?

523
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,517
>> Dude, don't ask me about
the ingredients. All I know is they taste

524
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,477
[__] amazing. >> They do.
They taste good. I asked was

525
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,837
I'm interested in food science.
Before before starting Androl, one of the

526
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,797
things I was considering doing
was starting a company to make synthetic

527
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,477
food out of petroleum. Uh they would
have zero calories and therefore allow

528
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,317
you to eat as much as you
want without getting fat.

529
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,917
>> Interesting. >> And so u
I had to learn a lot about,

530
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,597
>> you know, food science, but in
particular the science of foods that

531
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,997
you're not really supposed to eat,
like mineral oil. And a lot of these gummy

532
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,917
bears, they put anti-stick, anti-cake
agents in them, and if you have too many

533
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,837
of them, they give you diarrhea.

534
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,397
>> Yeah. Yeah.
And I can tell you I can tell

535
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,357
>> I don't see it on the ingredients list
and I I can feel it like they don't have

536
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,797
like that slimy sheen. Yeah. So you
can you can eat as many of these as you

537
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,517
want. I bet without having a bad
day at the toilet. [laughter]

538
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,237
>> Something to think about.
>> You got a gift, right?

539
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,517
>> I do. So this is something that I
put a lot of time into. Not for yours

540
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,077
specifically, just generally. [laughter]
Um, this is a mod retro chromatic. For

541
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,917
about the last 15 years, as a side
project that I put a little bit of time

542
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,477
into here and there, I've been building

543
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,677
a clone of the Nintendo Game Boy Color.

544
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,557
So, this is a hardware clone that is

545
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,357
basically what Nintendo would have made
if money was no object. So, it's got a

546
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,037
custom one to one LCD that's the exact
same resolution as the original Game Boy

547
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,437
and Game Boy Color. Uh, it's a modern
modern totally custom LCD, sapphire

548
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,517
screen lens. So, not glass or plastic.

549
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,037
It's the same stuff you'd see on like
a high-end Rolex. And the shell is made of

550
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,197
an aluminum magnesium alloy. Compatible
with any Game Boy game. I I gave you a

551
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,597
couple games, too, that are
sitting over in the studio. So, uh

552
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,717
it's a it's a pretty it's a pretty fun
it's a pretty fun bit of hardware. And

553
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,557
this one's this one's signed by me.

554
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,677
>> Dude, I was a Game Boy fiend. So

555
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,997
>> So, it comes bundled with uh it comes

556
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,797
bundled with

557
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,677
>> Tetris. It's a new
edition of Tetris. It

558
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,077
was this was actually played at the

559
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,157
Tetris Classic World Championships last

560
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,277
year. Um, we had a tournament for it and
in my opinion, it is the best version of

561
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,117
Tetris that's ever been made. Oh, well,

562
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,397
if you want the batteries, it runs
on not rechargeables. Runs on Ace.

563
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,797
>> Nice. >> So, you have to twist
those out of the packaging.

564
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,357
>> I'll do that later. >> But,
uh, I'm going to frame this one and

565
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,517
put it in the studio.
>> And you have another one in the studio

566
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,317
so that you can actually play. So,
I'm I'm not going to let I'm not going to

567
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,477
let it be trapped.
You got to got to get back into Tetris.

568
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,877
>> I will. I will. Thank you.
This is awesome. I love this stuff, man.

569
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,517
>> I love putting stuff from guests
in the studio. That's all this

570
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,477
>> You have so many cool things.

571
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,077
>> Most of the stuff in here is all from

572
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:57,757
prior guests and all has like a a deep
meaning, at least to me. And um

573
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,117
>> well, I've got a lot of my heart
and soul in that. And the the the name for

574
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,197
it, the Mod Retro Chromatic, Mod Retro
is actually the first business I ever

575
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,917
started. So, when I was a teenager, like

576
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,877
13 or 14, I started an internet forum
called Mod Retro for uh game console

577
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,197
modification enthusiasts.
>> And uh you know, it's it's it's it's

578
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:18,877
pretty fun to come back to it today.

579
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,917
>> Thank you. Thank you. But um all right,

580
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,037
so like I said, we're going to do
a life story and then get into

581
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,957
all your business ventures.
>> Let's do it.

582
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,077
>> At least some of them. I don't know
how many how many businesses do you have

583
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,717
right now? You know, right now I'm 99%
focused on just Andreal. Um, I mean, I

584
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,317
sold Oculus to Facebook for a few
billion dollars and I was up in Silicon

585
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,717
Valley for a few years
before they fired me.

586
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,957
>> Uh, so I don't have that one anymore.

587
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,357
>> And Mod Retro I've had, you know, since
I was 14 years old and I'm, uh, I'm very

588
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,197
lucky where I found a few other people
who are putting their full time into it

589
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,597
because I just couldn't put time into
it anymore. But, uh, I'd say and and

590
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,837
androlls and rolls my my baby. That's the
thing that I'm putting all my time into.

591
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,477
Like that company is awesome.
>> Thank you.

592
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,517
>> It's awesome. >> Well,
like for people don't know, it's

593
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,517
we're we're not a defense contractor.

594
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,317
We're a defense product company. So,
we use our own money to design and build

595
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,117
products for the United States military
and allies around the world that

596
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,357
leverage autonomy and artificial
intelligence to do things that nobody's

597
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,757
been ever a ever able to do with weapon
systems before. So our business model is

598
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,117
that we build these things using our own
money, not taxpayer money. And then we

599
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,197
show up to the government, not with
a PowerPoint saying, "Hey, here's this

600
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,837
thing. I want you to give me money to
build for I have this working tech, this

601
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,397
working product. >> Buy it for me."

602
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,677
>> That's awesome. All right. So, where'd

603
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:44,797
you grow up?

604
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,517
>> I grew up in Long
Beach, California. Um,

605
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,957
my my dad was a car salesman. My mom was

606
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,037
a stay-at-home mom who homeschooled me

607
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,557
and my three younger sisters. Um, I

608
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,717
ended up moving down to Orange County
to start my first company, Oculus. But I

609
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,877
spent Yeah, I spent my whole
childhood in Long Beach.

610
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,717
>> You were homeschooled? >> Yes.

611
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,277
>> Tell me about that.
Why were you homeschooled?

612
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,357
>> Yeah, there's lots
of reasons. Um, wait,

613
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,197
how do you how old are you right now?

614
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,677
>> How old? I'm 32 years old.
>> You're only 32.

615
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,917
>> I'm only 32. >> Holy [__]

616
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,757
>> Yeah, I'm I' I've had a I've had a

617
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,197
pretty intense run. Um, but I I was

618
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,597
homeschooled probably because I was uh

619
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,397
not the type of kid who fit into the

620
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,197
public education system. Uh, I was, you

621
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,757
know, probably these days they'd say
that I have ADHD. Uh, but back then it

622
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,277
was just called being a boy.

623
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,677
>> And, uh, and, uh, I think I think my

624
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,397
parents identified that, uh, of me
in particular out of my sisters was

625
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,237
probably going to do better in a
homeschooling environment than in public

626
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,717
school. My my my sisters, they were
homeschooled for various periods of

627
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,877
their childhood, but all of them at some
point actually ended up going back to

628
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,197
traditional schooling.
>> Really? But you didn't.

629
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,957
>> Yeah. And I look I you different things
work differently for different kids. Um

630
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,077
some people really like the formal
structure and and the formal formal

631
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,797
education process and being told exactly
what you're going to do and how you're

632
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,437
going to do it and when you're going
to do it. And I was not one of those

633
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,437
people. And I I think it
turned out pretty well for me.

634
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,237
>> I think so. It sounds >> You
don't mind if I eat these the whole

635
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,357
time, right? All right, >> we got if
you need more than two bags, we got more.

636
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,557
>> All right, but um >> my wife's going
to love them. She loves jelly beans.

637
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,517
>> Do you have kids? >> I do.
I have one kid. He's 6 months old.

638
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,277
>> Congratulations. >> Yeah,
it's really great. I'm I'm a I'm

639
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,957
I'm a big pronatalist. I definitely
believe you need to have kids. Like if

640
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,877
you don't have 2.1 kids minimum, you're
a traitor to the nation and our ideals

641
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,077
cuz you're you're basically outsourcing
responsibility for the continued

642
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,037
existence of our nation to other people's,
which seems like it's a super

643
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,237
elitist attitude. You're like, "Oh,
I think I just want one kid." Like, you

644
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,397
[__] elitist. you [laughter] you you

645
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,757
you like it's like a mentality almost
thinking like oh like like yeah I'll let

646
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,117
the you know I'll let the c I'll let the
cattle reproduce you know they can keep

647
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,437
up the population but my time you know
I I don't want to raise more than one it

648
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,717
just it it seems like an abdication
of responsibility for our nation's future

649
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,197
and direction that I I just can't get
behind of course that that like ignores

650
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,837
people who have like a real reason like
a medical reason or a health reason or

651
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,717
some unique economic circumstance but like
if you have the means to do it it's

652
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,557
crazy to me to not have at least 2.1 kids.
So, you could say, "I did my part.

653
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,557
I I met replacement rate." That meeting
replacement rate should be the bare

654
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,517
minimum. You know, if you're going to die,
you should at least if you plan on

655
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,677
dying, you should at least replace
yourself. [laughter] >> 6 months old, huh?

656
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,757
>> Yeah. 6 months old. So, he's uh so
he's uh he's sitting up and looking around

657
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,237
and and and and uh and loving life.

658
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,797
>> That's cool.
How do you like being a dad?

659
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,477
>> Well, I'm really lucky because my wife
is really tad and so she's doing most of

660
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,437
the hard work right now. I'm still I'm
still working a lot. So, I I get to see

661
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,757
him in the morning and I get to see
him at night. And uh we've oriented his

662
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,717
napping and sleeping schedules where
where where I get to spend some time

663
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,477
with him every day. But, uh for the most
part, she's the one she's the one doing

664
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,277
most of the work. And that's uh
that that that works out well for us.

665
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,957
>> How long have you been married?

666
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,717
>> Oh, man.

667
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,997
Since uh summer of 2019.

668
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,397
>> So, uh so I mean, how how many years is

669
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,197
that now? I guess >> almost
six years. Or is that almost

670
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,397
>> almost six years? Yeah. Yeah. So,
but but but we've been we've been together

671
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,597
for a really long time. So, my wife
and I met when we were 15 years old.

672
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:18,077
>> No.

673
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,837
>> And uh we met at a uh at a debate camp

674
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,117
in in Maryland at a at a law school that

675
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,357
ran a policy debate camp that ended with

676
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,157
a debate tournament. And the first time

677
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:33,757
that we met, she was crying within

678
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,637
minutes of meeting me because it was my

679
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:39,117
debate team versus her debate team. and

680
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,917
we were arguing about whether or not uh

681
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,157
and not arguing you formally debating

682
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:46,877
whether or not DDT, the pesticide agent

683
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,037
should be legal in the United States.

684
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:54,237
And her team was completely unprepared
for our argument in particular, which I

685
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,197
can get into if you want, but it was it
was a novel argument that none of the

686
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,877
other teams had ever seen. We ended up

687
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,597
beating all of the other beginner teams,

688
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,397
all but uh all but one of the other
intermediate teams, and several of the

689
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,797
advanced teams. So we went way further
than we should have because of this

690
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,477
novel argument. Anyway, they they were
so unprepared and that they they they

691
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,917
literally started crying in the middle

692
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,117
of the debate and uh somehow that we

693
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,837
went from that to her uh getting married
to me. Uh so it's it's it's it's a

694
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:22,957
really strange world, isn't it?

695
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,997
>> Very cool. Very cool.
>> She realized I wasn't a mean person. I

696
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,117
was just really good at debate.

697
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,077
>> Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. I could
see that already. So you you said you

698
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,077
had three sisters. >> Yep. Yep.

699
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,397
>> No brothers. >> No brothers.
And that's why I'm so glad

700
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,797
to have a boy. I know you're supposed to
love them all equally and not care which

701
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,117
it was, but I was clear from the very
beginning. I said it, I I'm praying it's

702
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,517
a boy. Please be a boy. Because growing
up in a household that was, you know, my

703
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,757
dayto-day was my mother and three sisters.

704
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,197
Look, I always say you're supposed to go

705
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,357
to hell after you die. All right? It

706
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,877
it's it can be intense. And so I was so

707
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,397
so worried that I might be on a track
where like I'm only going to have

708
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,997
daughters and that all of a sudden I'm
stuck in my childhood again. And so now

709
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,477
that I've had a boy,
I'm I'm happy to have either. But

710
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,477
>> when's the next one coming?

711
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,837
>> Um as as as fast
as biologically reasonable.

712
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,117
>> Nice. Nice. Nice. So what were you into

713
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,517
as a kid? >> Oh man.
You know, I I started out as a

714
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,357
outdoor kid when I was a kid,
you know, so running,

715
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,317
surfing, swimming, like I I was into all

716
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,037
the outdoor stuff. And it wasn't until I

717
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,037
was like 12, 13 that I really seriously

718
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,197
got into electronics and engineering.

719
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:40,797
And then I quickly became an indoor kid.

720
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,757
Like I just I I ceased to I ceased to be

721
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,837
useful in a physical capacity. Were you
>> Were you building forts and all that

722
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,397
kind of Were you building Were you
building weapons? So, I was I mean I I I

723
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,877
actually I just dug up a bunch of the
first weapons that I built. Um I built a

724
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,037
multi-stage electromagnetic accelerator.

725
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,997
Uh basically a coil gun. So, not not
a not a not a rail gun. Rail guns, you

726
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,837
know, put past the current through
the projectile directly. Just making a

727
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,517
magnetic field that accelerated uh
accelerated nails and shot them out of a

728
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,757
tube. Um the first thing that I ever

729
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,357
built was a uh it was a a stun glove.

730
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,597
So, it was a Home Depot leather glove
that I mounted a capacitor charging

731
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,437
circuit. This I made those were like
11 or 12 capacitor charging circuit and

732
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,157
then a bunch of photo flash capacitors
in a gauntlet. 330 volts. You could dump

733
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,997
the whole thing through this big thick

734
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,077
gauge wire to two spring-loaded pegs uh

735
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,197
on on on the front of the fist. And like

736
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,837
if you punched like if you punched a

737
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,557
plate of metal, it would leave hu
a blast of sparks, a loud, you know, loud

738
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,117
explosion, shower sparks, and it would
leave big pits in the metal. And uh I

739
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,477
did use it on myself a couple times. And
you know, it doesn't blow poles in you.

740
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,357
It just really, really, really works

741
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,757
your muscles. And I was too young to

742
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,077
recognize that high amperage electrical

743
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,237
weapons are extraordinarily dangerous.
I had absolutely no idea how dangerous

744
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,077
what I was building was. I I knew I knew
enough to be dangerous and not enough to

745
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,320
be safe.

746
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,117
I know everybody out there has to be

747
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,357
just as frustrated as I am when it comes

748
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,517
to the BS and the rhetoric that the

749
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,157
mainstream media continuously tries to

750
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,197
force feed us. And I also know how

751
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,757
frustrating it can be to try to find
some type of a reliable news source.

752
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,117
It's getting really hard to find
the truth. and what's going on in the

753
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,037
country and in the world. And so, one

754
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,437
thing we've done here at Shawn Ryan Show

755
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,277
is we are developing our newsletter.

756
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,677
And the first contributor to the
newsletter that we have is a woman,

757
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,237
former CIA targeter. Some of you may
know her as Sarah Adams, call sign

758
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,877
superb bad. She's made two different
appearances here on the Shawn Ryan Show.

759
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,797
and some of the stuff that she has

760
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,917
uncovered and broke on this show is just

761
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,277
absolutely mind-blowing.

762
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,317
And so I've asked her if she would

763
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,197
contribute to the newsletter and give
us a weekly intelligence brief. So it's

764
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,837
going to be all things terrorists,
how terrorists are coming up through the

765
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,277
southern border, how they're entering
the country, how they're traveling, what

766
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,117
these different terrorist organizations
throughout the world are up to. And

767
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,957
here's the best part. The newsletter is

768
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,437
actually free. We're not going to spam

769
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,477
you. It's about one newsletter a week,

770
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,717
maybe two if we release two shows.
The only other thing that's going to be in

771
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,317
there besides the intel brief is if
we have a new product or something like

772
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,877
that. But

773
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,317
like I said, it's a free CIA

774
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,557
intelligence brief. Sign up. Links in

775
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,197
the description or in the comments.

776
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,000
We'll see you in the newsletter.

777
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,277
Did you hit anything with it?
>> Oh, just myself. Just myself. Just

778
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,637
myself. [laughter] Um,
I ended up building a covert version

779
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:08,877
that was a uh it was a it was a
highlighter pen that I put three photo

780
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,837
flash capacitors into the body of.
Kept the front of the of the of the

781
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,717
highlighter inside. So, it was still
a working highlighter. And then on the

782
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,157
end, it had two tiny little metal
prongs. And I could touch it to an

783
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:24,077
external charger, charge it up, and now
I had a pen I could carry in my pocket.

784
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,677
And if you touch that to somebody, it it
was it was it was just awful. Um and uh

785
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,437
it would it would like it would leave
like real serious burns on your skin.

786
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,837
And uh I'm I'm I'm very lucky that I
didn't wipe myself out then and there.

787
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,837
But yeah, I was always I was into
building weapons. I was into building

788
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,117
building uh I was doing a lot of game
console modification. I started Mod

789
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,877
Retro because I was really into this
hobby called portableizing, which is

790
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,917
turning vintage game consoles into

791
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,917
self-contained handheld portables.
like portable Nintendo 64 handhelds, uh

792
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,237
portable Super Nintendo handhelds,

793
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:03,277
combining the best of modern technology
with these retro systems. And uh that

794
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,317
was that was the kind of the the
foundation that led to me getting into

795
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,117
virtual reality, which >> how did
you I mean, how do you get into

796
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,517
that? What age are you? >> So, I got
into VR when I was about 14 years old.

797
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,197
>> Not VR, just the regular weapons.

798
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,837
>> Oh, regular >> not regular
weapons. I thought you were

799
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,637
going to say bow and arrow and spears
and stuff. Uh the the see for me I was I

800
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,837
was never really even interested in like
the wielding of the weapon. It was in

801
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,237
the building of the weapon. Like when I
watch a James Bond movie, the cool part

802
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,597
that most appealed to me like I'm
not imagining that I'm James Bond. I'm

803
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,357
imagining that I'm Q. Like that that's
the that was the cool thing to me. It

804
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,517
was it was building these things
that did things that nobody expected that

805
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,917
nobody had ever seen before. allowing
James Bond to do things that, you know,

806
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,757
would allow him to outmaneuver
or outsmart or outgun his opponent. And so

807
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,597
that that was that was that was kind
of that was I was interested in all these

808
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,437
weird exotic weapons like high-powered
lasers and high voltage stuff and

809
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,957
electromagnetic accelerators,
not because they're effective weapons, but

810
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,197
because they are a potential path to
weapons that allow you to do things that

811
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,157
conventional weapons hand. If I had just
been interested in weapons, I I would

812
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:11,117
have just bought a Glock, right?
You know, that's Well, it's hard to buy a

813
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,237
GOP when you're 12 years old, but you
know, that's if if you actually just

814
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,477
want to if you just want to shoot
somebody, you know, you just existing

815
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,237
weapons are pretty good.
They're pretty good

816
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,557
>> anytime outdoors or anything.

817
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,717
>> Yeah. So, you know, I I grew up uh

818
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,837
sailing small boats, so like dingies.
Uh the boat that we sail in in Long Beach,

819
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,277
it was it was called a Naples Sabbat,
which originally was like basically

820
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,717
designed as like a tiny very short
little boat that you would put on the

821
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,637
back of like uh you know, like
a sailboat or a power boat and just used

822
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:46,957
to get back and forth between land and
the boat. And then someone decided, hey,

823
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,277
wouldn't it be funny if we uh if we made

824
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,477
kids race these in a racing league? And

825
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,117
uh that's that's more or less how it
all started. Um so I I was racing Naples

826
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,397
Sabbaths when I was a kid. Then I later
laser got later I got into type of boat

827
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:01,997
called lasers which are they're an

828
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,197
Olympic sailing class boat. Um and I I

829
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,357
liked sailing those. I then later tried
team sailing where you know you're one

830
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,597
of multiple people on a boat. I didn't

831
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,077
like it because when you're on a team

832
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,477
boat it's possible to succeed or fail on

833
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,717
the basis of other people's work. Like

834
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,757
you can fail and the boat still wins.
uh or somebody else can fail or you think

835
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,437
they fail then you blame your loss
on them and I I found it was healthier for

836
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,077
me to be a solo sailor because then if I

837
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,557
win it's all me and if I lose that's
all me too like you can't you can't make

838
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,557
excuses for yourself and say well only
reason I lost is because of you know you

839
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,677
know Alex on the other side of the boat
you know that's why we really lost cuz

840
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,197
that guy wasn't pulling his weight when
it's just you in the boat you're like I

841
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,877
lost I >> I didn't try
hard enough I didn't

842
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,517
practice hard enough and so uh That was

843
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,237
that was a I I I really like sailing.

844
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,997
It's a phys it's a physical
and mental sport, which is still fun.

845
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,557
>> I have not sailed in years. I I I I've

846
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:03,997
thought often about getting back into

847
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,597
it, but I'm just so busy with Anderol

848
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,757
and like sailing to me is not a fun
relaxing activity. It's it's it is an

849
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,397
intense competitive sport and I am so

850
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,517
out of practice and so physically inept
compared to what I was that I I know I

851
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,397
would be totally non-competitive. And so
I I that's why it's it's hard for me to

852
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,157
it's hard for me to go and go and do it.

853
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:27,277
I'm I'm kind I think I'm going to get
back into sailing once I'm once I'm all

854
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,877
old and used up. Once I've once I've
I've I've made my contribution to

855
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,957
society, the candle has burned down
to just the puddle of wax. I'll get back

856
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,717
into sailing. >> Nice. Nice.
>> I like power boats, too. That's the

857
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,197
other problem is >> Yeah.
I heard you got a Mark 5.

858
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,157
>> I do. I You've probably
been on Mark 5 before.

859
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:47,757
>> I've been on a lot of Mark Fives.
So, I I bought a I bought a Mark 5 special

860
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,157
operations craft from the naval special

861
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:53,437
warfare guys. And uh I bought it. It was

862
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,677
it was like asis, no warranty, just like
getting rid of it. And there was no use

863
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,197
certificate cuz they were basically
selling it as scrap metal. And the nice

864
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,077
thing about that is I was able to get
it and then put a ton of money into

865
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,117
reactivating everything, getting it
going again. As far as I know, I'm the

866
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,357
only civilian owner and operator of a
working Mark 5. There's there's a guy

867
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,197
who has one with no engines in it that's
sitting on the side of the freeway uh in

868
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,077
in a in a boatyard in San Diego, but I I

869
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,477
I think I'm the only guy who's actually
spent all the money to to to make one go

870
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,277
again outside of the government.
And I'll tell you that boat was that was

871
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,797
that boat was made for people with
government wallets, not not uh not not

872
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,717
not civilian wallets, but >> I
mean it's such a cool boat, right? I

873
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,197
mean it's it's ridic it's the fastest
boat that the Navy ever built. So, uh,

874
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,197
you know, it was built explicitly for

875
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,397
Navy Seal insertion and extraction. Uh,

876
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,677
so really, really fast, tons of storage,

877
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,597
really, really durable, really, you know,
incredibly bulletproof drivetrain

878
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,317
and and engines, and it'll put any
weapons on it. So that was one of that

879
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,477
was part of my saga is they cut off all
the weapons mounts even now they they

880
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,557
took off the weapons and then cut
off all the weapons mounts uh and hard

881
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:07,597
points because that would have been like
you know ITAR restricted arms type stuff

882
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,677
but we were able to find the contract
number for the people who made the

883
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,357
original mounting brackets and so we

884
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,197
just contacted that machine shop and

885
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:20,637
said hey we need part number 462571.

886
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:25,357
you still have the CAD for that. They
said it's not even in CAD. This is, you

887
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,717
know, this is like this is all draw
paper drawings, but yeah, we got the

888
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:33,117
drawings and we said, we we want you
to make us four of that part. And so, we

889
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,277
got uh brand new weapons mounts made.

890
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,077
And I've and I have a I have replica M2s
that were made by a company that makes

891
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,357
Hollywood props that I keep on it when
it's just parked in front of my house.

892
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:48,397
But I keep the real M2s nearby so
that if we go out into uh you know out of

893
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,717
California state waters,
we could put the real M2s on.

894
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,997
>> Damn, that's awesome.
>> It is really awesome. It's one It It's

895
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,037
one of those things where it's just
when you're out there on that thing and

896
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,277
you're blasting along at 50 knots
and you're just eating up waves like it's

897
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,997
nothing. We went on a few really cool
trips on it. Uh there was one trip where

898
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,837
when when the hurricane was passing
by California recently, there were these

899
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,277
huge, you know, waves and swell offshore.
We said, "You know what? We're

900
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,397
just going to take it out." Like,
supposedly this thing can do 40 knots in

901
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,717
Sea State 4. We're going to go do it.

902
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,917
That was the craziest [__] I've ever
done on a boat. It was insane. I mean,

903
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,397
think like coming off a waves, diving
bound into the next wave, and the whole

904
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,477
thing goes over the entire boat and you

905
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:29,757
shoot out the other side and you're

906
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,437
still going 30 knots. Um, we also went

907
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,357
to go see the USS Kittyhawk,
the last of the US,

908
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,477
the last of the United States
conventionally powered super carriers.

909
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,397
So not nuclearpowered. They were towing

910
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,597
it from Breton, Washington down around

911
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,757
the bottom of South America, then back

912
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,837
up to Galveastston, Texas for for for

913
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:55,117
scrapping. And uh they didn't have
any transponders on the boat or the tow

914
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,917
because they didn't want Looks to come
do it. And they were doing it offshore.

915
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,117
You they didn't want people coming out

916
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,677
to get in the way. And uh we we got a

917
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,277
hot tip from a buddy of mine as to when
it was leaving and how fast they were

918
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,557
going. And so we charted out where it
was going to be and we guessed pretty

919
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,797
well. So we just went out uh when it
was passing by Southern California and we

920
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,557
eventually found it way offshore. It
was so funny cuz we were approaching the

921
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,557
toeboat and before they could make
visual contact with us. They must have

922
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,957
seen us on radar and they radioed us
and said that this was a military tow

923
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:31,197
operation and to stay clear. But I knew
for a fact from talking to my buddies

924
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,717
that it had already been cleared from DoD
possession and this was just the tow

925
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,197
company talking [__] And like they they
were like arguably illegal what they

926
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,957
were saying. And so we just didn't
respond. And then about, you know, 1

927
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,317
minute later, we make visual contact
with them and they see, you know, a big,

928
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,597
you know, gray navy boat blasting
towards them at 50 knots. And they shut

929
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,717
up and they didn't say another word.
I think they were like, "Oh shit." Like

930
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,877
damn. >> They were like, "We shouldn't we
shouldn't we shouldn't have uh shouldn't

931
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,677
have, you know, puffed ourselves up like
like that." And uh so we it was really

932
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,797
cool. We got to we you ripped right
by the boat. But we got some really good

933
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,477
pictures and then we launched
a fixedwing drone off the back of the Mark

934
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,277
5 and we did a touchandgo
on the runway of the Kitty.

935
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,837
>> Oh my gosh, I bet those
people are [__] their pants.

936
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,797
>> Well, the thing is you'll never get
another like the military is not really

937
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,557
in the business of letting you fly your,
you know, remote control airplanes off

938
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,717
of aircraft carriers. It was so cool.

939
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,117
And cuz we're out in the middle
of the ocean, too. So, it's not like we're

940
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,997
doing it like off like, you know,
a docked ship or something, which they

941
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,597
have done that with like the USS Midway
in San Diego. They've let people take

942
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,117
off little RC planes from the deck,
but it's just sitting at the pier. It's so

943
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,157
cool to be flying an RC plane FPV and,

944
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:41,277
you know, going down approaching the

945
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,357
carrier touch and go and uh
unfortunately we we tried to land the

946
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,997
plane back on the Mark 5, but we we we
uh we we messed up and the plane went

947
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,597
into the water. So, I had the drink.

948
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,877
>> We had to come back around and I had
to jump into the water and get the plane

949
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,037
and keep it I had to hold it above
my head to keep the memory card out of the

950
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,077
water so that it wouldn't uh so it
wouldn't get destroyed. But we got the

951
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,837
video. We got the video. >> Very cool.
Very cool. So, when you were

952
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,757
did you when you were
homeschooled? I mean,

953
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,277
how how do they keep up with you?
How did your mom keep up with you?

954
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,117
>> I was really lucky in that there were

955
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,557
certain things that I was I had I had to

956
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,637
have beat into my head. There's other

957
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:25,757
things where I was just interested
for my own reasons and very very good at

958
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,357
self-directed learning. Like I mean I've
read I read I read thousands of books

959
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,157
before I was 13.
>> Literally thousands of books.

960
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:35,517
>> What kind of books?
>> Everything. The classics, science

961
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,917
fiction, the art of the deal.
Uh you know I just

962
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:44,637
like the entire gamut of everything that
you would want. So like we were we were

963
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:48,957
uh you check I was checking out lots
of books from the library. Also lots of

964
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,837
people giving me books. Everyone knew
that Palmer liked to read and so people

965
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,557
would sometimes buy me new books, but

966
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,117
more oftenly you'd have uh especially

967
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,997
like adult friends just like dumping

968
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,477
massive quantities of books. My mom also

969
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,877
uh you she she managed to get uh on

970
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,197
whatever registry Barnes & Noble uses

971
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:11,917
for uh for teachers. And so she had
the educators discount for buying stuff in

972
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,677
Barnes & Noble. And so you're I I forget
what the discount was, but it was some

973
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,277
extraordinary discount. Barnes &
Noble did a lot for a lot for teachers,

974
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,757
especially back then. And so, uh, yeah,
I just read and read and read and read.

975
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,757
And so, c certain topics I was pretty I
was I was I I was okay with like I loved

976
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,557
science, I love engineering, I loved

977
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,437
chemistry, math, like like like real

978
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,797
math, never really a fan. Um, you know,

979
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,637
there was like uh uh uh handwriting,
which you know, at the time that was

980
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:43,357
actually still a thing that they were
you insisting that kids needed to learn

981
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,877
in school. um you know doing cursive
and they're like, "Oh, you're definitely

982
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:51,037
going to use cursive."
Now they don't even teach it anymore.

983
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:52,877
Man, what what a waste of time that was.

984
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,277
But uh >> yeah, I was I was I would say my
mom didn't keep up with me on the things

985
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,397
that I was interested in, but she didn't
need to try. She knew that I was going

986
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,037
to be fine on those. And uh on the other

987
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,837
stuff, you know, my mom was able to was
able to beat me beat me into submission.

988
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,557
>> Right on. Right on. >> You know,
my mom's no dummy. She has a

989
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,557
master's degree. Yeah, she's a she's
a she's she's a she's a she she's a she's

990
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,477
a sharp she's a sharp one on her own.

991
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,317
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, did you grow up in I
mean did you grow up in a middle class

992
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,277
family? >> Yeah. So,
my dad was a car salesman.

993
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,997
Sometimes new, sometimes used. It depend
depended on the time. Uh you like like

994
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,757
the 2008 financial crisis was really
really tough for the car industry. So,

995
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,957
there were there were there were some
times where it was really tough cuz

996
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,957
dealers were laying people you can't
keep all your sales people employed when

997
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,557
people aren't buying cars. It's like
that's just the way that it is. But he

998
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,237
sold mostly domestic cars. So, Buick,

999
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:48,157
Pontiac, GMC, Hummer, and then later uh

1000
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:52,557
he kind of had to shift into selling
uh import vehicles because that was the

1001
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,237
only thing that was actually moving
volume. So, like had to had to get into

1002
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,837
selling Korean and Japanese cars. And it
wasn't really what he wanted to do, but

1003
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:04,717
it was it was the only it was the only
way to make it work. And uh my parents

1004
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,437
decided, you know, my mom would stay
at home and he would work. So, we were a

1005
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,677
single income household. I don't I
don't want to say like we were poor or

1006
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,397
anything, but like when you when you got

1007
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,717
one person working and they're one job
they're working as a car salesman, uh

1008
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,717
you know, you got to you got to you got
to sharpen your pencil sometimes. And

1009
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,037
sometime like one of the things my dad
would do is in his spare time he'd buy

1010
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:29,277
used cars. I know it's funny. You sell
used cars all day, then you go home,

1011
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,797
>> you buy used cars and you fix them up,
drive them around for a few months, and

1012
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,517
then you sell them for more than you
bought them for. And that gets you a

1013
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,797
little little more cash. That was that
was one of the ways that I ended up

1014
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,957
becoming mechanically inclined was
helping my dad work on, you know, motor

1015
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:48,317
homes and vans and uh you know, old old
crusty BMWs. You you you you learn a lot

1016
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,397
when you actually interact with the
world and machines with your own two

1017
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,477
hands. >> And you went
to you started college at

1018
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,437
what age? >> You know,
I I I honestly I'm not sure.

1019
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,117
It was when I was 14 or 15. It was it
was it was around it was that summer. Um

1020
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,477
but I don't I don't remember exactly.
It would it would have been right around

1021
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,277
when I was either turning 15 or almost 15.

1022
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,117
>> So, was that remote
or did you actually go?

1023
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,677
>> No, no, I went I
cuz Yeah, I was a I was

1024
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,477
I was a commuter student. I wasn't like
[clears throat] I wasn't on campus, you

1025
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,797
know, I was still living at home. Um,
but no, I was I was I was actually going

1026
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,157
to school and I was The funny thing
is when you're So, here's the way it works

1027
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,117
in California. High school students are

1028
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,437
allowed to attend community college

1029
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,837
courses and state college courses by

1030
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,237
law. The law says you have to allow them

1031
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,677
to take those courses. Um, but there's

1032
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,437
two requirements. One, it has to have
sign off from the principal of your

1033
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,717
school. This is why most kids don't do it.
And by the way, taking college

1034
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,437
courses when you're a high school kid,
it's amazing because you get college

1035
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,717
credit and high school credit at the same
time. It's like AP courses, except

1036
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,997
a lot of these college courses are
actually easier than AP courses in my

1037
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,957
estimation. Um, it's just true. Look, it

1038
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,037
like AP kids are all motivated.

1039
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,197
Community college, you get everybody.

1040
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,437
Um, so the good news is my mom had, you

1041
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,797
know, she like we were registered with
a homeschool group that basically just

1042
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,157
signed off on all the paperwork. They're
like, "So I I just got everything signed

1043
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,277
off on." And normally like schools don't
want to sign off on this. Principles

1044
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:20,077
won't sign off because they lose out
on revenue proportional to the classes

1045
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,117
you're not taking at school. What like
what principal is basically going to

1046
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,397
sign off on a bunch of kids going to all
the local community colleges when his

1047
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,677
school is going to lose the money?
So, it's a totally [__] up system that

1048
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,157
incentivizes keeping kids trapped in the
high schools rather than allowing them

1049
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,277
to specialize and take community college
courses. The second thing you have to do

1050
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,517
is you have to you basically
have last priority for

1051
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,637
enrolling in classes. Like you you know
when you were enrolling in classes, you

1052
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,277
know, there's popular classes where you
had to be like on you had to be on your

1053
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,077
on your game and actually like enroll
in it quickly, right? You couldn't like

1054
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,197
wait two weeks and then get around to it
because the class would be full. The

1055
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,517
problem is that when you are a high
schooler taking college classes, you

1056
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,957
don't even the the enrollment window
doesn't open until it's been open for

1057
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,957
like four weeks for all of the proper
students. And what that means is that

1058
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,077
every course you want to go into
generally is already full. And so the

1059
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,437
only way to make it into course is you
have to go and petition into the course.

1060
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,437
You have to show up on the first day
of class with your petition form. And then

1061
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,717
usually you like you you're there
with maybe some other people petitioning,

1062
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,077
sometimes not. And then at the end of
the class, you talk to the professor and

1063
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,757
try to convince him to let him into
your class. And uh so I had to get really

1064
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:30,477
good at that. I every single course I did,
I had to as like a 15-year-old kid

1065
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,317
talk to the professor and I would make
sure to do research on them. I would

1066
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,157
make sure to do research on what work
they might have done in academia. And I

1067
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:39,837
would I'd have I'd have to play the game

1068
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,277
like, "Oh, Prof. Professor Kraz, I'm

1069
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,997
such a huge fan of your work on the

1070
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:51,037
local geologics of the estuaries in Long
Beach. I've been reading your papers

1071
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,477
lately and I really think you make the
argument better than your colleagues at

1072
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:58,317
UCLA." And they say, "Oh, well, thank
you." I say, "Mr. Kraz, I would really

1073
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,997
love to take your geology course.
In fact, I have to take it for my general

1074
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,837
education requirements. I know your class
is full, but is there any way that

1075
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,757
I could, you know, that I that I could
we could add an extra seat? Is there any

1076
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,357
way that I could stay for a week or two
while we wait for students to inevitably

1077
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,677
drop out and I can take their seats? And
actually, nine times out of 10, I I was

1078
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,437
able to make it work. And there there
were times where I was, you know, just

1079
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,237
sitting in the back of the class
or standing in the back of the classroom

1080
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,997
for the first week or two >> and then
someone would drop, bam, I got

1081
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,597
my seat and I wouldn't have to stand
anymore, which was good cuz I was fat at

1082
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,437
the time. Uh this was remember I became

1083
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,917
an indoor kid. I stopped exercising and

1084
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,037
so uh yeah that's how I know that was a

1085
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,277
long a long ramble but when you're a kid

1086
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,997
going to college it is is it is as weird

1087
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,717
as you'd think. It it is it is like it

1088
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,037
is like a situational comedy every
single day cuz you're like a 15year-old

1089
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,397
kid. And like it's obvious too. I wasn't
like a I wasn't one of those kids where

1090
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:58,477
I'm like you know a towering brute
and who knows if he's 30. Like it's it's

1091
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,797
like what's that 15year-old kid doing?

1092
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,477
They're still going
through puberty over here.

1093
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:07,357
>> It's that was exactly the situation.
And uh it was especially funny in things

1094
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,877
like when I was going to Long Beach City
College and taking robotics courses and

1095
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,997
you basically have a whole bunch
of people who are like you know older guys

1096
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,837
mostly getting uh you
know post postgraduate

1097
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,997
master's degree type work and you have
a 15-year-old kid and the way the class

1098
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,677
works is you're all on teams building
robots and so you have to pull your

1099
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,877
weight like and like nobody really
wants you on your team when you're a

1100
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,157
15-year-old kid when you're kind
of going in blind. You're like, why do I

1101
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,437
want to be gimped by this teenager when

1102
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,277
we're all like, you know, professional
level people often already working jobs

1103
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,437
and taking this taking this night class?

1104
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,517
And so I really had to work hard
to stand out and and and prove and prove

1105
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,997
that I could keep up with with the adults.

1106
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:49,437
>> Did you have a problem keeping up?

1107
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,637
>> No, I had no problem. >> Did they
have a problem keeping up with you?

1108
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:57,517
>> I think that as soon as it was I did
a good job of making it clear that I could

1109
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,517
keep up pretty quickly. And as soon as
that was clear, then I was like the most

1110
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:05,197
hilarious novelty ever. Like ever
every everyone thought it was just the

1111
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,797
funniest thing ever, you know? Uh as I
as I got older and then I'm like 15,

1112
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,637
then 16, then 17 and 18. Now I'm just
the age of all the freshmen and it's not

1113
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,677
interesting anymore. But at the beginning
it was definitely pretty interesting.

1114
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,317
>> But you're not in freshman
classes at that age.

1115
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,197
>> Um not at that point. Well, it depends.

1116
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,317
So, what I the way that I did this
and the way I would actually recommend

1117
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,597
basically everybody do it if you can
scam your principal into signing your

1118
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,397
paperwork is the moment you are eligible

1119
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:34,717
when you're 14 years old, start taking
community college courses. And what you

1120
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,317
should do is take all the general
education courses first cuz they're

1121
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,677
generally easier. You have to do them
no matter what you're going to do as an

1122
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,197
adult, right? Like if I if I become
a journalist or a mechanical engineer or a

1123
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,477
pilot, I'm still going to have to take
history. So, just start with all that

1124
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:53,437
crap and just do a few years of the
crappy all general ed courses and then

1125
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,797
you can decide at the end what you're
actually going to do and you can then

1126
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,477
transfer all those units to where where
whatever school you're actually going

1127
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,357
and that's what I did. I transferred
all those units from community college to

1128
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,357
Cal State Long Beach and went
into the journalism program.

1129
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,997
>> How did you make friends?
I mean, >> you know, it

1130
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,997
>> doesn't sound like you're surrounded
by anybody your age. Everybody's older.

1131
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,437
>> So, a few things.
one, I was that you can't do.

1132
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,197
>> I was lucky. I you know, I had a lot of
local friends. So, like I I'll admit it.

1133
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,877
I wasn't making my friends at college,
right? Like, people are fine with the

1134
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,277
weird 15-year-old kid on their robotics
team, but they're not going to go hang

1135
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,157
out with them after school. Like,
nobody in their 20s like, "Oh, I just love

1136
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,337
hanging out with 15-y old kids."
And if they are, something's wrong, right?

1137
01:03:35,420 --> 01:03:39,197
[laughter] Uh I was I was lucky.
I wasn't running I wasn't running into any

1138
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,197
of those guys. Um but I was lucky. I had
a lot of friends I grew up with. had a

1139
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:47,037
lot of friends from doing homeschool
stuff, but honestly, most of my friends

1140
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,077
were internet friends. Like I
was running an internet form called Mod

1141
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:55,517
Retro. I think all my best friends were
internet friends. And uh it actually

1142
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:59,037
worked out pretty well for me. It's
like when I started Oculus and I started

1143
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:03,277
Oculus when I was 19 years old,
almost everyone who worked there and this

1144
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:04,717
Oculus is my virtual reality headset

1145
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,677
company. Almost everyone I hired was

1146
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:12,397
friends and moderators and administrator
staff from Mod Retro. We were all

1147
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,757
teenagers. Like, we're all a bunch
of teenage dudes who have known each other

1148
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:20,077
for like five or six years on the
internet. And we basically decided to

1149
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,917
start a VR company together. I I'll
never forget when I called up my friend

1150
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,717
Chris, who was one of the early

1151
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:31,117
administrators and moderators on Mod
Retro and a good online friend. I'd

1152
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,677
literally never met him in person. And I
called him up and said, "Chris, what are

1153
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:40,077
you doing this fall?" He said, "Oh,
I'm I'm I'm probably going to uh I'm

1154
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,357
probably going to work all summer at the
local pizza place and then I'm starting

1155
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,557
school this fall. I'm going off
to college." I said, "No, you're not.

1156
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,397
You're going to come with me and we're
going to start this VR company that I've

1157
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:52,797
been working on, Oculus." And that was

1158
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,437
on a Friday. And that Monday, I rolled

1159
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,637
up in my crappy minivan to his house,

1160
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:03,037
which was 2 and 1/2 hours away from mine.
He piled all of his stuff into it,

1161
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,117
and we drove away. And his mom
couldn't believe it. She she Oh my god.

1162
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,437
>> He He told her, "Mom, I'm uh I'm
dropping I'm not going to school. I'm

1163
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,357
going to start a company with Palmer
from the internet instead." And she's

1164
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,197
just like, >> "Okay."
Like, "Sure." And she didn't

1165
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:20,797
understand that he was like imminently

1166
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,757
doing it that Monday. And so we moved

1167
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:28,237
into a motel that is now condemned
and has been torn. It was later condemned

1168
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,317
and torn down, but we we moved into the

1169
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,357
Seapport Marina Inn. And we lived there

1170
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:37,917
for the first few months of Oculus.
Like literally me and my internet buddies

1171
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:42,157
living in a crappy motel room starting
this company. And so I I I believe I

1172
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:46,237
didn't have a problem with with uh
making friends. We just had problems uh

1173
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:47,597
seeing each other in real life.

1174
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,397
>> How old were you? >> That was I was 19.

1175
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:51,757
>> 19 years old. >> Yep.

1176
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:53,837
>> And did you complete college?

1177
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,677
>> No, I dropped out.
Um, I I went through,

1178
01:05:57,760 --> 01:05:59,837
you know, I I I I had basically one

1179
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:03,677
semester and summer school left to get

1180
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:07,837
my degree and I had a series of

1181
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,037
technological breakthroughs in my
virtual reality hobby, which I've been

1182
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,917
working on. Like I said, I started
building VR headsets when I was 14 or 15

1183
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,917
as a hobby. And I would become obsessed
with virtual reality technology and

1184
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,757
trying to make it better. I I I believed
that the existing systems which cost

1185
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,877
hundreds of thousands of dollars
and were very heavy. I believe they were

1186
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,117
they had missed something. I I knew this

1187
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:32,157
had to be a crackable nut and there
weren't very many people working on VR

1188
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,197
tech. It was kind of a laughingstock
at the time. Everyone thought, "Oh, that's

1189
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,757
this dead, you know, technology. It'll

1190
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,917
never happen. Uh it was just a

1191
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:45,277
ridiculous fad of the '90s." And I still
believed in it. And over the course of

1192
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,397
years, I got better and better and better.
And then I had a series of

1193
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,557
technological breakthroughs that made
my headsets much cheaper, much lighter,

1194
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:56,717
much smaller than anything that anyone
had ever made. And for the first time

1195
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:01,197
when I showed it to my friends,
instead of them seeing my prototypes and

1196
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,237
saying that I was wasting my times,
they said, "Oh [__] I actually get it now.

1197
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,037
This is cool." And so I I had a choice.

1198
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:10,957
I could either stay in school and get my

1199
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:16,237
journalism degree or I could drop
out of school and start this company.

1200
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,397
And then there was there was actually it
was kind of two options. I could either

1201
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:23,197
drop out and start this company or I
could stay in school, get this degree,

1202
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:27,037
probably have to make use of that degree,
and I was terrified that in the

1203
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:31,357
process of delaying me working
on my real passion that somebody else was

1204
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,797
going to figure out what I had and they
were going to do it before I did. I I

1205
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,917
said, I don't have the time. I I need
to get this into the world right now.

1206
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:42,317
Because anyone there there were
literally thousands of people in the

1207
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,357
technology industry who could have had
the insights I had. The insights I had

1208
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,997
were not like Einstein level insights.

1209
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,997
They were the natural conclusion that any
smart person who was looking at the

1210
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:56,877
VR industry in 2011 in 2012 would have
made. Basically, there were certain

1211
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:00,877
components becoming available. Computer
power was increasing in a certain way

1212
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,037
where I could compensate for optical
distortion in real time on a graphics

1213
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,797
card shader and not have it take up very
much of my graphics rendering load. And

1214
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:13,277
I realized that if anyone smart happened
to glance in my direction that they were

1215
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:14,797
going to have all the same conclusions I

1216
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:20,637
did and I I knew I I needed to I
needed to take advantage of that.

1217
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:22,397
Good thing [clears throat] I did.
It was a >> Wow.

1218
01:08:22,480 --> 01:08:25,037
>> And actually even better, it I I was

1219
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,997
right. So Sony ended up launching

1220
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:32,317
PlayStation VR a couple years later and it
was more or less built on exactly the

1221
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,517
same principles that I had. Now, I think
they copied a little bit from what I

1222
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:40,077
made public, but they also had
internally been working on VR for years.

1223
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:43,677
And so, it turns out there were people
in major companies who literally had

1224
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:45,757
come to the same conclusion I had. In

1225
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:51,037
fact, Sony made me a job offer before
I launched Oculus. Um, I I was open

1226
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:56,077
sourcing all of my work, publishing it
on the internet. And when uh when Sony

1227
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,517
>> Why were you doing that? Why were you
putting open- source information on the

1228
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,517
internet if you were worried people
were going to steal the idea? So, a few

1229
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,757
things. First, remember VR was just kind
of like a joke at the time. And I was

1230
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,877
working on it not as a job. I
was working on it as a hobby, right? I got

1231
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:14,077
into VR like I just wanted
to work on VR and make it good.

1232
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,197
>> And it's about it's it's not about

1233
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:21,997
>> it's guess there's two ways to look
at this. One is that if I put stuff out

1234
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,917
there, other people put stuff out there,
right? And then we all move faster

1235
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:30,237
together as a collective than me
hoarding all my information myself. But

1236
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:33,837
to be honest, it was just purely
cultural and I never thought it through.

1237
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,237
Remember, I started the mod retro forums
cuz I was interested in modifying game

1238
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:42,477
consoles, vintage computers. The social
currency of an internet forum is

1239
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:47,037
knowledge, right? How do you show off
on an internet forum that is built around

1240
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,477
engineering and product? You're
like building projects. You show your

1241
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,077
projects and you don't just show them.

1242
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:56,317
You say, "And here's why my project
is better than anyone else's. Let me tell

1243
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:58,397
you in detail how I built my power

1244
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:03,437
management system." Notice how I
modified this LCD to not use a compact

1245
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:08,157
fluorescent illuminator, but instead
uses the latest white LEDs from Nichia

1246
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:09,757
to achieve much lower power consumption.

1247
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:11,757
And then all the other nerds say, "Oh my

1248
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,877
god, this guy is a god." Like that is

1249
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:18,157
the the social currency of nerd forums

1250
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,077
in the 2000s was prowess. And so if you

1251
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:26,717
didn't prove your prowess, you're nobody.
And so I I honestly that that

1252
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,277
was the culture I grew up in on the
internet. That's that's how the internet

1253
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,517
was back then. And it's very different
than today. Today it's about flash and

1254
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,997
style. You make a cool video and like
it's it's it's not really necessarily

1255
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:42,077
about going deep into the technology
that you did or the design decisions.

1256
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,597
Also, you know what was common in the
2000s? You wouldn't do it today where

1257
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:49,197
you go on and you post, you know, your
final completed thing and hope it goes

1258
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:53,677
viral on TikTok. You would post updates
in a forum thread like every week. You

1259
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:57,117
say, "Here's my project update thread,
guys. Here's how's it going. and here's

1260
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,397
what I'm doing. People would say,
"You're a [__] idiot. Why are you

1261
01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:04,077
doing it that way?" And and sometimes
you'd say, "You're wrong and I'm going

1262
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,917
to prove it." Other times you say, "He's
right. I I was doing it a stupid way."

1263
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,877
And you would adapt. And [snorts] so
it was just a totally different culture.

1264
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,757
And that was the approach that I when I
started working on VR, I'm like, "Well,

1265
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:18,077
that's that's what you do. That's you
you you share your work and people are

1266
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:22,797
impressed by it." Um, >> and so
how did Sony get on how did you

1267
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:24,877
get on Sony? what that that was that I I

1268
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,517
got really lucky in a series of chains.

1269
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,117
So I I I don't I don't want to say that it
was all luck because I think people

1270
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:33,037
make a lot of their own luck. Like you

1271
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:38,317
might not be able to make a a coin more
likely to land on heads or tails, but

1272
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,117
you could increase the number of coins
you get to flip in life, right? Like you

1273
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:43,997
could you could do things that increase
the number of interactions you're likely

1274
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,597
to have with people. I think publishing
in the open, for example, did that. It

1275
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:51,917
means that I didn't have to personally
meet every person who would be helpful

1276
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,357
to me. they could just see my work out
in the open and then come to me. And in

1277
01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:59,197
this case, it was a guy named John
Carmarmac, um, who you should have on

1278
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:04,637
the show, honestly. Probably
the smartest engineer in the world that I

1279
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,397
know. >> Can you connect me with him?

1280
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:11,117
>> Absolutely. Um,
John is more or less the

1281
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:15,117
creator of first person shooters, the

1282
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:19,197
modern 3D game engine. Like if you've
played any if you've played Call of

1283
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:22,637
Duty, if you've played Battlefield, if
you've played anything, it all goes back

1284
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,157
to Doom. He was the original creator and

1285
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,357
lead programmer for Doom. And uh he

1286
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:32,717
>> Oh, dude, I love he he is a wizard.

1287
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:37,037
>> And he was so far ahead of his time.
I mean, not just building 3D games, but

1288
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:41,357
also one of the first people to conceive
of networking those games over the

1289
01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:45,117
internet to allow people around
the world to be in a single virtual space

1290
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,157
and play games together. Like John was

1291
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:52,237
bringing that out like people had online
games but they typically were not real

1292
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,637
time you know they were
things like online chess.

1293
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:59,037
>> He figured out how to build net code
that would allow you to have people in a

1294
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:02,717
fast-paced action game where
milliseconds matter and allow that to

1295
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,877
function over the internet. I mean
like and so John was an extraordinarily

1296
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:10,717
brilliant guy. Everyone in the games
industry, the tech industry writ large

1297
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:16,077
knows who he is. And uh he would give
these he would he would give these uh

1298
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,757
actually he would also publish all his
personal notes and technical notes in in

1299
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:23,357
in a lot like he would literally publish
them online and just let anybody see

1300
01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:28,237
them because he also believed in sharing
information. Everybody goes together and

1301
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:31,197
he wasn't worried about people running
faster than him cuz he was already

1302
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:36,077
running twice as fast as anybody in the
world could ever run. John Carmarmac had

1303
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:39,197
been looking at virtual reality for years,
but it had always concluded it

1304
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,637
was too expensive, too uh low field of

1305
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:44,397
view, too much latency, it made people

1306
01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:48,157
sick. Uh and he had every few years he

1307
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,557
would do another new look at VR and see

1308
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:52,957
if where it was. And I got lucky where

1309
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:56,157
he came onto this internet forum and he

1310
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:00,557
was researching VR and he saw my project
threads and he contacted me and said,

1311
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:05,677
"Hey Palmer, um actually no, our first
interaction was he posted asking, "Hey,

1312
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:09,357
I want to modify this Sony headmounted
display that I have to be lower latency

1313
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:13,117
because you can't play games with it
or you'll throw up." Um does anyone have

1314
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:17,197
any tips on modifying this thing?
And I gave him a detailed response where I

1315
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,077
said, "John, I've already tried to do
exactly what you're talking about.

1316
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,597
Here's all the technical challenges.
The way Sony has imple implemented the

1317
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:26,477
display pipeline makes it impossible
to get rid of latency unless you drive the

1318
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,677
displays directly with your own brand
new controller. Here's why you're not

1319
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,677
going to be able to do that. And so I
laid all that out. He looked into all my

1320
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,837
other posts. He saw my Oculus Rift
worklogs and he contacted me and said,

1321
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,397
"Hey, you seem to really know your stuff.
I see you have this Oculus Rift

1322
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:43,917
prototype. Can I can I buy one from you?"
I said, "I'll do better than you

1323
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,597
better than that, John. I'm I'm I'm
a huge fan of yours. I'll just send you

1324
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,077
one for free." So, I sent him one of my

1325
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:55,277
Oculus Rift prototypes for free. He
adapted that into Doom 3 BFG Edition. He

1326
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:59,197
basically made his game run on my headset
and he showed that at E3, which

1327
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,957
is a major gaming trade show in Los
Angeles. It takes place every year. That

1328
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:07,757
was where Sony saw it. Sony saw
that prototype and there was so much

1329
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:10,397
attention being given to this at this
point because it was the best VR demo

1330
01:15:10,480 --> 01:15:14,237
the world had ever seen. Like John even
explicitly said, "This is the best VR

1331
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:18,637
demo the world has that has ever been
created." Sony saw that and they said,

1332
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,077
"Oh my god, John, like who the hell
made this? What company did you buy this

1333
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:26,797
from?" He said, "I bought it from a
teenager on the internet who I've never

1334
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:31,037
met." And and he and he just gave it
to me for free. And so he put me in touch

1335
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:35,037
with Sony. I met with them, showed them
my technology, and they offered me a job

1336
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,037
running a VR research lab in their Santa

1337
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,957
Monica PlayStation studio. And uh

1338
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:45,357
I ended up turning them down to start
my own company. But uh but then what I

1339
01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:49,677
didn't know at the time is that they
were already running a VR project and

1340
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,677
what I didn't know is that I was already
in a race against the clock. I didn't

1341
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:58,397
even when I turned them down I didn't
understand that like I thought turning

1342
01:15:58,480 --> 01:16:02,317
them down it's like oh I need to do this
on my own before Sony you know gets into

1343
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:05,917
VR. I didn't know that they were
literally already in a race with me. It

1344
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:07,357
was a it was a really wild time.

1345
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,437
>> When did you find out? you know, I I

1346
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,317
kind of knew that there were pe So, all

1347
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:17,517
the VR work back then was being done
by a group called Sony Liverpool. Uh, so

1348
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:21,517
over in the UK, they had an office that
was doing most of their 3D work. Like,

1349
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,437
they were doing all their 3D ports
of various PlayStation games. Those were

1350
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:26,877
kind of the guys leading the charge on

1351
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:30,077
VR as well. And I found out that they

1352
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,597
were working on VR right before

1353
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:36,797
right after I turned them down. But then

1354
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:41,757
Sony Liverpool was shut down just a few
months later. And so all of a sudden the

1355
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,957
people who had been working on it
weren't working on it anymore. But what

1356
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,317
I didn't know is like and so I I I
basically found out they were working on

1357
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,317
VR then thought they weren't working on

1358
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,277
VR. Then I found out maybe a year later

1359
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:55,677
that there was an entirely separate VR

1360
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:58,077
project going on inside of Sony out of

1361
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:02,957
Japan. And I found out about a year later.
And then you won't believe this.

1362
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:06,637
The day that we announced
the acquisition by Facebook of Oculus,

1363
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,517
literally the same day was the day that

1364
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,557
Sony announced their PlayStation VR VR

1365
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:15,037
console. Literally the same day.

1366
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:19,197
>> Wow. Yep. >> It's really
like which gets back to like

1367
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:24,317
it was clearly an idea whose time had
come, right? Like I was very lucky that

1368
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:28,077
I had the insight that I did as just
a random guy in his garage. Like, how wild

1369
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,557
is it that there's like me, a

1370
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,797
15-year-old sitting in his garage, has

1371
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,677
more or less the exact same insights on

1372
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,557
this dead technology that a huge team of

1373
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:43,037
advanced display researchers in Tokyo
have at exactly the same time? Like,

1374
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,837
man, that's how you know that it's
the right time to do something.

1375
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:50,237
>> That is crazy. And who's who was
your friend that you and by the way John

1376
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:53,917
Carmarmac just to tell you a little more
more about him he also at the same time

1377
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,717
he did in software ran a rocket company
that competed in the X-P prize and they

1378
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:02,557
built the one of the first vertical
takeoff and landing rockets way years

1379
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:06,397
before SpaceX did. They were more
or less the inventors of modern control

1380
01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:09,837
theory around doing vertical takeoff
and landing rockets. So he did that as his

1381
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,877
hobby. He also built like twin turboed

1382
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,917
Ferraris as his hobby. And then I hired

1383
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,557
him as the CTO of Oculus. So I convinced

1384
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:21,517
him to leave his own game studio to come

1385
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:23,997
and be the CTO of Oculus. And then

1386
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,957
eventually after I was fired, he left

1387
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:31,117
and now he's working on trying to build
super intelligent general artificial

1388
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:35,037
intelligence. And he did this before the
AI boom. So like I know that seems like,

1389
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,397
oh well, of course he's doing AI like
all these other, you know, hot people

1390
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:41,117
just following the trends. John
was doing it when everyone thought he was

1391
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:44,877
crazy. So, I mean, he's he's
he's way ahead of the curve.

1392
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,237
>> Damn. I would love to talk to him.

1393
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,157
>> I I'll connect to you guys.
I John John is John is John is brilliant.

1394
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:54,237
>> Thank you. Thank you. So, who was
your who's your friend that you had coaxed

1395
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,277
out of going to school? >> So,
that's my friend Christopher Dykus,

1396
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,637
who was uh I said earlier that I had
never met him in person. That's actually

1397
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,397
not true. I just remembered I had met
him one time in person at San Diego

1398
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:07,117
Comic-Con. Um we were we we we we both

1399
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:08,957
met up while we were at Comic-Con.

1400
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,077
>> Nice. Nice. So, was he a co-founder?

1401
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,277
>> Yeah. So, he was he was I mean he was

1402
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:19,597
the literally the first person that I
called before I called anybody else. And

1403
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:22,157
he was, you know, got guy a lot of the

1404
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,797
like same hobbies as me, same uh same

1405
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,757
same interests as me. And I mean, he's

1406
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,317
he was employee number one at Oculus.

1407
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,677
Literally employee number one. I don't
count myself as employee number one cuz

1408
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:38,157
you can't employ yourself. Um or maybe
you can. Anyway, we've always said that

1409
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:39,597
he's employ We've always said that he's

1410
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:41,997
employ he's employee number one. Uh cuz

1411
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:46,957
he was. And the crazy thing is Chris was

1412
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:50,397
also employee number one at Andreal,
my new weapons company.

1413
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:53,997
>> Oh [__] >> So when
this is a whole long story all

1414
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:55,677
on its own, but when I was fired by

1415
01:19:55,760 --> 01:20:00,237
Facebook, Chris was the guy who took a

1416
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:03,597
stand and said publicly, "Hey, you

1417
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,557
firing Palmer is totally wrong. It is it

1418
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:11,037
is absolutely insane. He has done
nothing wrong and I can't be at a

1419
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:12,957
company that is like this. And so he

1420
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:16,157
quit his extremely highly paid job at

1421
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:19,197
Facebook to come and join my next

1422
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:23,917
company even though that company didn't
exist yet. Had nothing to its name. And

1423
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,717
uh you know he's he he's he's one
of those he's one of those one of those

1424
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,437
friends who is probably more loyal than

1425
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,277
he should be which is what people should

1426
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:35,517
do. Wow. So you developed Oculus. How

1427
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:37,277
many people are on the team?

1428
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,157
>> Well, started with
just me in my garage.

1429
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:42,877
When we were shipping our first product,

1430
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:45,917
the Oculus Rift DK1, we were up to about

1431
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:48,557
25 people. When we shipped our second

1432
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,597
product, the DK Oculus Rift DK2, we were

1433
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,477
up to about 75 people. And that was when

1434
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:59,037
we were acquired by Facebook.
And then during my years in Silicon Valley

1435
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,157
working on VR at Facebook, you know,
they basically we were run as a kind of

1436
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:07,197
an independent operation owned
by Facebook, um, we grew it to a couple

1437
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:09,757
thousand people. >> Holy [__] >> Yep.

1438
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:11,357
>> And so how did it how did it pop up?

1439
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:13,517
Were you trying to sell the company? How

1440
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:15,357
did it pop up on Facebook's radar?

1441
01:21:15,440 --> 01:21:20,237
>> So there were a few things. Um, we were
not trying to sell the company. We were

1442
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:24,957
planning on staying independent,
but then a few things happened. First, it

1443
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,717
became apparent to us that we weren't
running a race on our own. We started to

1444
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:31,037
hear what was going on at Sony. Like,

1445
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:35,837
when Sony announced PlayStation VR,
we knew it was coming.

1446
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,837
We knew there were other companies that
were that were going to be entering the

1447
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:43,037
space with way more resources than we
had as a startup. I look, we're we're a

1448
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:46,797
group of like 75 guys who managed
to raise a little bit of venture capital.

1449
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:48,157
How do you compete with multi-billion

1450
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:51,037
dollar companies like Sony or Microsoft

1451
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:56,557
or Google or Apple? It's really really
hard. And uh that was so that was one

1452
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:59,197
thing we were just really concerned
about and having a lot of discussions

1453
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,237
internally. How do we survive in the
long run? We we we have the jump on

1454
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:06,477
these guys, but how do we turn that lead
into something that persists rather than

1455
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,797
just being the people who are first
and blazing a trail for everyone who then

1456
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:13,997
comes in and outspends us. And it's
pretty easy to outspend people in the

1457
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:18,157
games industry. Like here's a very real
concern. What if they came in and all

1458
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,757
the video game developers who are making
games for our platform, what if they

1459
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:25,357
just came in and gave them piles
of money to not support our headset and be

1460
01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:28,397
exclusive to their headset? Sony did
just that. And I have, by the way, I

1461
01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:31,437
have no ill will towards them. It's
it's all business, right? It's strictly

1462
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,317
business. They were trying to compete
with us. There were titles that had

1463
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:38,797
announced for the Oculus Rift as our
launch titles. Sony came in, gave them

1464
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:41,917
money, and they said, "We're not going
to be on your platform. We're going to

1465
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:45,757
be on Sony's now." So we we we were very
very vulnerable because nobody wants to

1466
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:51,037
buy a game console that has no games,
right? You you you really need to you

1467
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:54,077
need to be able to make
sure the developers

1468
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:58,317
can justify financially
being on your platform.

1469
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:01,837
So that was all going on and then in comes
you know like I say there was lots

1470
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,957
of interest from obvious people like
Microsoft coming in and Google coming

1471
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,437
in. The interesting thing was when

1472
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:12,317
Facebook came in and a few things
happened. First, I think Mark was truly

1473
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:15,917
convinced that VR was the future. He saw
what we were doing and he said, "Oh my

1474
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:17,997
god, this is the future of computing.

1475
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:22,317
This is the future of gaming. I truly
believe in your vision. I want you to be

1476
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:25,357
a part of Facebook." So, well, you know,
we're not not really that interested at

1477
01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:26,637
this point, but like maybe we could team

1478
01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:30,557
up in some way. Um, and the thing that

1479
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:32,557
really convinced us in the end was two

1480
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,677
things. one, Mark promised not just to

1481
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:40,637
buy our company, but to invest a minimum
of a billion dollars a year into

1482
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:44,397
research and development for the next
decade. That was really the thing. Like

1483
01:23:44,480 --> 01:23:47,677
when you're someone like me who's
used to working with garage budgets and

1484
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:51,037
scraping money here and there and trying
to keep your thing going, imagine what

1485
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:53,277
that sounds like. Someone comes to you
and says, "I'm going to give you a

1486
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:56,557
billion dollars a year
for the next 10 years of your life

1487
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,437
>> to try and push
virtual reality forward."

1488
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,917
>> It's a really
compelling pitch. In fact,

1489
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:03,837
I remember exactly what I wrote in the

1490
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,477
email to the team after we met with

1491
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:10,077
Mark. I said,

1492
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:12,957
"We we might be getting played, but if

1493
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:16,717
so, Zuck is Van Halen." Like, like he

1494
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:21,197
he's saying he's hitting all the right
notes. He's saying exactly what you want

1495
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:24,957
to hear, and he's doing it
in a way that really makes sense.

1496
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,677
Uh, the second reason that we were

1497
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:32,317
persuaded is because they made a pitch
to us and said, "Look, Microsoft, if

1498
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:34,237
they buy you, is just going to cut you

1499
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:35,997
up into pieces and use you to sell more

1500
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:39,357
Xboxes. They don't actually want VR or

1501
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:43,357
AR to be the next major computing
platform." Like, Microsoft's pretty

1502
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:47,437
happy with how things are. Same thing
with Google. Same thing with Apple.

1503
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,557
They're already at the top of the food
chain, right? They're making iOS,

1504
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:53,837
they're making Android, they're selling
phones, or they're selling, you know,

1505
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:57,437
Microsoft Office, they're selling
computer operating system licenses. The

1506
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:00,637
people at the top don't want to shake
everything up. They don't want to shake

1507
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:04,557
the snow globe and see who comes out
on top. They kind of want to maintain

1508
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:07,917
things the way they are. So, his point
was, if you get bought by Google or

1509
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:12,797
Microsoft or Apple, they are not going
to try and shake up the whole world and

1510
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,397
make VR a thing as fast as they can,
you're going to be a tiny part of their

1511
01:25:16,480 --> 01:25:18,877
10-year plan. But Facebook on the other

1512
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:20,957
hand, we don't have an operating system.

1513
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:24,637
We don't have a hardware platform. We

1514
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:28,557
don't control these gigantic, you know,
store. Like we don't control the iOS

1515
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:32,797
store. We don't control the Google Play
Store. But they want to have a platform.

1516
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:36,717
And so Mark's point pitched to us
was look, you go to those other guys,

1517
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,997
they're not going to be motivated
to make your thing change the world. You

1518
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:43,357
come to Facebook, we are deeply
motivated because we want to shake the

1519
01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:46,237
snow globe. We want to make the whole

1520
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:50,957
universe move to VR and AR. And even if
we don't end up on top, we'll probably

1521
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,837
at least be in second or third place,
which is a heck of a lot better than

1522
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:58,397
today where we're way down here. And I
think that it was it was he was it was

1523
01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:01,277
just obviously true, right? Like you
could look at it logically and say,

1524
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:04,557
"Yeah, that that's actually right.
They they do need to figure out a way to

1525
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:09,277
shake things up. This clearly is that way,
and they're committing to spending

1526
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:13,757
a billion dollars a year on the thing
that I am passionate about." So, uh,

1527
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:17,917
you'll notice that not nowhere in there
is, uh, I did it to get rich. Uh, I I I

1528
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,477
will address that really fast cuz I know
what people are thinking. I know they're

1529
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:23,677
thinking, "Well, well, Palmer, what
about the $2.3 billion that Martin gave

1530
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,637
you for the company?" On the one hand,

1531
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,957
uh, like that was some tiny factor, but

1532
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:35,277
remember that I had other companies
that were making offers too. My investors

1533
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:38,477
were telling me not to sell. They were
saying, "Palmer, no. We'll we'll fund

1534
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:41,277
you. We'll give you as much money
as you want." like I could have done that

1535
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:44,717
instead. And also I believed that Oculus

1536
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:48,557
was going to make tons of money all
on its own, right? Like we we were the

1537
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,837
hottest things in the games industry.
So in my mind, I was already going to make

1538
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:55,277
as much money as I would ever need. Like
like like so people they often say, "But

1539
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:59,357
Palmer, you really just did it for the
$2.3 billion." I say, "No, like if if

1540
01:26:59,440 --> 01:27:03,677
this is about $2 billion, I could have
just made that myself." Uh but Mark was

1541
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:08,477
offering $10 billion in research
and development and me getting $2 billion

1542
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:10,077
from somebody doesn't do that.

1543
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:13,917
>> Yeah. >> Doesn't do that. >> Wow.
Interesting. Interesting. So what was like

1544
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:17,277
>> if I if I could flip it on you like not
not to play the interview but like what

1545
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:18,717
are you most passionate about in life?

1546
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:20,317
Cuz for me it was VR at that point.

1547
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:21,917
>> This this >> this right here.

1548
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:25,997
>> What if someone told you that they were
going to give you $10 billion to do this

1549
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:29,597
for 10 years? >> Yeah.
Like wouldn't you just think, oh

1550
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:33,597
my god, like this is the opportunity of
a lifetime. And I know like you probably

1551
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:36,077
want to remain independent. But if
someone told you, I'm going to let you

1552
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:38,477
remain independent. You're going to make
all the shots and I'm going to give you

1553
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,837
$10 billion over the next 10 years.

1554
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:45,037
>> You'd say yes to that.
>> Absolutely. I would. In fact, that's a

1555
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:49,757
that's a discussion we're having right
now. So f I'm so stoked to hear that.

1556
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:54,077
And I I'd say to anyone listening,
>> it's not $10 billion.

1557
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:58,877
Well, I'll tell you if if you can find
somebody who will give you $10 billion

1558
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:04,077
to do what you're passionate about, take
the deal. It is it is like that it is it

1559
01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:07,917
is. >> And like did it turn out well for
me? I mean, in the end, I ended up getting

1560
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:11,197
fired for absolutely
[__] political reasons.

1561
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:14,157
>> Yeah. I wanted to ask you,
>> but guess what? VR is a multi-billion

1562
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:18,317
dollar industry. I'm having the last
laugh. I I I wanted Mark changed the

1563
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:22,077
name of the company to Meta and literally
made AR and VR the core of the

1564
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:23,677
company. Like in the end, Mark didn't

1565
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:29,277
acquire me, I acquired them.
>> It's a damn good point. So how long So

1566
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:32,637
Facebook bought it?
>> Yep. >> You moved over.

1567
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:34,077
>> How was it working at Facebook?

1568
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:37,677
>> Things were going great. I mean,
we So we we had a bunch of metrics that we

1569
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:41,517
needed to hit in terms of sales,
user retention. Like we needed to get 10

1570
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:45,757
million users on the Oculus platform.
We needed to hit I forget it was some

1571
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:50,157
number of millions of hours of monthly
users. And we had these different levels

1572
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:54,557
where we basically got bonuses paid out
on the basis of our performance tied to

1573
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:58,397
those metrics. >> We had
something like 5 years to hit the

1574
01:28:58,480 --> 01:29:00,797
top benchmark of 10 million users. We

1575
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:05,517
did it in less than two years.
Like we were we were kicking ass.

1576
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:08,957
>> Wow. >> And so
everything was going great. I

1577
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:11,597
earned all my bonuses. I got great

1578
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:15,597
performance reviews. Everyone loved me.

1579
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:19,597
And I I got along pretty well with
everybody despite moving to the Bay

1580
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:22,077
Area, which was a very very politically

1581
01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:25,117
left place at the time. I'll say like I

1582
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:27,437
I've long been a libertarian

1583
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:32,397
minded person. Politics were always
something I had thought about but really

1584
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:37,517
didn't do anything about. Like I had
given $40 to Gary Johnson, right? Like

1585
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:41,517
it just it I I don't want to say
politics weren't important to me, but

1586
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:43,037
they just weren't that important to me.

1587
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:45,117
I cared about VR. I was the VR guy,

1588
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:48,397
right? And so here I am. I've sold my

1589
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:50,637
company for billions of dollars. Few

1590
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:54,237
years pass and all of a sudden Donald

1591
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,917
Trump's running for president. Now
Donald Trump is somebody who I had long

1592
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:02,717
had respect for. I actually wrote
a letter to him when I was in college and

1593
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:05,917
15 years old telling him that he
should run for president. You might not

1594
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:07,597
remember this, but he had been on TV and

1595
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:08,957
they were asking if he was going to run

1596
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:13,277
against Barack Obama. Um and he said he

1597
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:15,677
said well I might have no choice. I

1598
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,317
might have to run. I don't want to run.

1599
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:20,797
No, nobody wants me to run. It feels

1600
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,037
like but if I have to do it then I have

1601
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:27,997
to do it. You know if people tell me
that I have to run then maybe I have to

1602
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:29,917
do it. And so I wrote him a letter. I

1603
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:33,517
said you have to run. We need someone

1604
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,477
who's signed both sides of a check. We

1605
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:41,197
need someone who is not a part of this
giant government bureaucracy. We need

1606
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:44,477
someone who understands what it's
like to build a business, not to be a

1607
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:49,597
community organizer. And uh I wrote that
letter. I I don't even want to say like

1608
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:52,877
I thought too much of it, right?
Like I I you know, like I I did it on an

1609
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,037
impulse cuz I saw him say, "If if enough

1610
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:59,917
people tell me I have to run, then maybe
I'll do it." Years pass, Trump's running

1611
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:04,397
for president, and I said, "This is
this is fantastic. I'm I'm so stoked that

1612
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:05,997
Donald Trump is finally
running for president.

1613
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:08,877
>> Was there Hold on.
Was there any Did you get a response?

1614
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:10,717
>> No. And I I never got a response. Okay.

1615
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:13,837
Which is which is which is fine. Like I
I don't want to act like I was like put

1616
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:17,677
off by it. I also I'm so glad I did this.
I posted on Facebook about it too

1617
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:21,437
and I said I'm I said I said it
looks like Donald Trump might run for

1618
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:24,717
president. We convince him. This would
be awesome. I'm so glad I did that cuz

1619
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:28,717
now I have proof that I supported him
when I was 15 years old all those years

1620
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:32,157
ago. Uh because otherwise this just this
would just be like a ridiculous story.

1621
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:35,677
you'd never be able to prove it. Um,
when I had Trump at my house years later

1622
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:39,357
for a fundraiser, which by the way was
the biggest presidential fundraiser for

1623
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:43,757
a Republican that had ever been held,
um, I I put that I put that little

1624
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:48,477
Facebook post up on the screen
[laughter] uh before he came up. Um,

1625
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:51,597
anyway, so look,
Trump's running for president.

1626
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:55,757
Everyone in Silicon Valley was losing
their mind, right? I mean, it's it like

1627
01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:59,117
I know you probably remember,
but there's probably people listening who

1628
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:00,557
don't remember or they're too young to

1629
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:04,477
remember. 2015 and 2016 was insane. The

1630
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:09,597
media hated Trump. Everything was being
twisted in these absurd ways. You

1631
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:13,277
remember when he said, "They're sending
us their drugs, their criminals, their

1632
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:15,437
rapists." And they said, "Trump says

1633
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:17,917
that Mexicans are rapists." And their

1634
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:22,077
quote is, "They are rapists." Like, you

1635
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:23,917
can literally just watch what he says.

1636
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,437
And like it it doesn't even make
grammatical sense for that construct.

1637
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:29,677
Also, he's literally talking about the

1638
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,077
criminals and the drugs and the

1639
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,797
murderers and the rapists. And I mean,

1640
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:38,157
it was like it was insane. There was no

1641
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:40,477
ethics being used. It was it was it was

1642
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,597
it was a pure attack blitzkrieg by the

1643
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:45,197
media against Trump. And a lot of people

1644
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,317
fell for it. And so, uh, I ended up

1645
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:52,877
giving $9,000 to a proTrump anti-Clinton

1646
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:56,957
group. And it's so funny because this
started a media [__] storm that I'll get

1647
01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:00,637
into in a moment. But I have to tell
you what they actually did. I gave them

1648
01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:02,477
$9,000.

1649
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:06,557
They ran one single billboard in Ohio, I

1650
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:09,597
think Columbus, Ohio, that was a picture

1651
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:11,997
of Hillary Clinton, and it said, "Too

1652
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:16,877
big to jail." And this was after she
got away with mishandling classified

1653
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:20,637
information. You might remember
at exactly the same time you had US

1654
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:22,877
submariners being put in prison for

1655
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:26,717
decades for much less

1656
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:29,997
expansive mishandling of classified
information. You know, it was it was an

1657
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:34,957
obvious double standard. You have
the deep state state department apparatus

1658
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:39,037
protecting Hillary and on the other side
you have a serviceman going to prison

1659
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:43,677
for something that was not nearly as bad
as anything she was too big to jail. So

1660
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:46,477
but would you agree like that's pretty
reasonable political discourse right

1661
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:48,557
that's not that's not crazy. I'm not I'm

1662
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:50,637
not saying Hillary's a [__] like you

1663
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:54,797
know it's it it it's very reasonable.

1664
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:57,597
So two things happened. First, the media

1665
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:01,117
found out about my contribution and a

1666
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:05,117
few media outlets reported on it
somewhat accurately. Like Palmer Lucky,

1667
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:09,757
the guy who started Oculus, this Facebook
executive, has given $9,000 to

1668
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,077
this proTrump anti-Clinton group that's

1669
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:15,437
running a billboard. Then a handful of

1670
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:17,677
people on Twitter, literally, it was a

1671
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:21,197
completely madeup story, said Palmer is

1672
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:23,437
funding white supremacist internet

1673
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:25,677
trolls to attack Clinton supporters on

1674
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,317
the internet. It expanded from there.

1675
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:32,557
Palmer is funding anti- uh anti-semitic

1676
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:35,597
memes. Palmer is funding misogynist

1677
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:38,877
troll squads. Palmer is funding a a I

1678
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:41,357
believe RS Technica called it a title

1679
01:34:41,440 --> 01:34:45,277
wave of racist memes on Reddit, Facebook

1680
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,397
and beyond. It was literally fabricated.

1681
01:34:48,480 --> 01:34:50,237
None of it ever happened. It was a

1682
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:52,797
completely false story and it was

1683
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:55,597
reported by dozens of outlets. CNN,

1684
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:58,957
Bloomberg, CNBC,

1685
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:02,477
RS Technica, Wired magazine, Gizmodo,

1686
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:06,477
Boing, Boing, [clears
throat] The Washington Post,

1687
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,477
Taylor Loren's reported on it. I mean,

1688
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:11,997
it was everywhere. And they all they all

1689
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:14,237
just had this this lockstep narrative.

1690
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:16,957
Palmer Lucky is a racist, misogynist,

1691
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:21,277
anti- which is so funny. I'm actually
a radical Zionist. I'm like, it it was it

1692
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:22,637
was even in the moment it was

1693
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:25,357
>> a radical Zionist. strongly believe in

1694
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:28,317
the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish

1695
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:32,637
state. Like I I I people are like that's
so problematic though. It's so it's so

1696
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:35,037
ethnostate adjacent. I say I don't care.

1697
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:38,797
After what happened to them in World War
II, they deserve a place where they can

1698
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:42,477
do their own thing and protect their
own people without getting wrecked by

1699
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:45,277
everybody else who hates them. And you
know what? Maybe someday everyone who

1700
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:48,637
hates Jews are going to be gone. We are
not living in that world today. And I

1701
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:51,917
and people they they think it's
a slippery slope though. if they can have

1702
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:55,757
it, why can't the KKK have their own
state? I say that's not going to happen.

1703
01:35:55,840 --> 01:36:00,077
Like like it's it's absurd for us
to even have a discussion. It is very

1704
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:04,477
reasonable for the Jews to have a place
that is theirs. And they say, "Oh, but

1705
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,597
what about the Palestinians?" You know
what? That's a separate political issue.

1706
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:11,197
like the existence of a Jewish state,

1707
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:15,997
which is what Zionism is, like the the
belief that they have the right to a

1708
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:19,837
Jewish state, the existence of a Jewish
state, is separate from the issue of

1709
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:23,757
what do you do with refugees from some
political, you know, from for some from

1710
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,797
some physical area. So, it was so
funny to me where like Palmer's this

1711
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:30,077
anti-Semitic guy because it
was literally made up. Like, it's not even

1712
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:34,397
like there was like screenshots
or madeup screenshots. journalists just

1713
01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:38,237
said it was true with zero evidence and
they just repeated what each other said.

1714
01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:41,517
And I know people are going to hear
this and say this I must be miss Palmer's

1715
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:44,237
ignor like he's he's glossing over
something. He must he must have like

1716
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:47,517
said something about Jews on Twitter
and they were like are you Jewish? No, I'm

1717
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:51,437
not Jewish. I just believe in the
existence of a Jewish state. Um and I

1718
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,837
bet even some of your listeners probably
won't agree with me on that. And that's

1719
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:56,637
fine. We don't have to all agree on
everything. But I will say it was pretty

1720
01:36:56,720 --> 01:37:00,237
ridiculous in the moment where like
Palmer is an anti-semite. I'm like no I

1721
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:02,077
love the Jews more than like anybody.

1722
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:05,437
like you Democrats would probably hate
me for how much I like the Jews, you

1723
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:06,957
know, like that you [clears throat]

1724
01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:10,797
Anyway, it was but what happened was as

1725
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:13,757
a result of this reporting like looking

1726
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:15,917
back I should have pushed back. What

1727
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:18,957
happened is I wrote a statement saying,

1728
01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:23,357
"Hey, this is all false. None of this
is true. Here's what actually happened. I

1729
01:37:23,440 --> 01:37:27,597
gave $9,000 to this proTrump group.
They ran a single billboard. Everyone is

1730
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:32,317
lying. This is literally fake news." And
that was when fake news was like a new a

1731
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,677
new a new phrase. >> Facebook
told me I couldn't publish it.

1732
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:38,237
They said, "We won't let you make
this statement. You cannot make this

1733
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,437
statement because it frames the media as

1734
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:46,477
the bad guy and in a world where Donald
Trump is attacking the fourth estate, we

1735
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:49,197
can't appear to be aligned with him."
I said, "Well, you guys don't have to

1736
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:53,917
appear to be aligned, but I will be
like, I I'm I'm fine if people think

1737
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:58,957
that I'm being unfair because this is
literally character assassination." Like

1738
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:03,437
they they are they are they are trying
to destroy and they kept reporting as of

1739
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:07,357
Thursday at 3:58 p.m. when read
for comment Palmer Lucky is still employed

1740
01:38:07,440 --> 01:38:09,677
by Facebook. Like that's how they ended

1741
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:14,397
the articles. It was it was explicitly
a scalp taking operation from the very

1742
01:38:14,480 --> 01:38:19,117
beginning. All the articles were ending
with Palmer's still employed. Palmer is

1743
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:24,077
still employed. According to Facebook,
Palmer is currently still employed and

1744
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:27,597
they just couldn't wait for the followup
where they could take my scalp. So,

1745
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:29,837
Facebook tried to get me to resign and I

1746
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:34,797
refused. They tried to get me to not say
anything. Eventually, they wrote their

1747
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:36,557
own statement for me that basically just

1748
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:39,917
said, "I'm sorry for the negative impact

1749
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:42,637
this is having on Facebook's uh

1750
01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:47,757
reputation and I want to uh I am
going to be taking a voluntary leave of

1751
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:50,557
absence." In reality, they told me
I couldn't come into the office until

1752
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:54,477
after the election. It was it was that
explicit. You can't come in until after

1753
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:58,477
the election. Their thinking was, "Okay,
Palmer is like the leader of our virtual

1754
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:02,077
reality organization." They knew they
actually needed me. It was getting rid

1755
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:04,397
of me is not a thing
that they could easily do.

1756
01:39:04,480 --> 01:39:06,877
>> Mhm. >> And their thought
was, "Okay, we know

1757
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:10,157
that Palmer didn't post these racist
memes." Like, Facebook did not know

1758
01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:13,597
Facebook knew none of this was true,
right? So, they knew that this was just

1759
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:17,277
a media invention, but they didn't want
to push back. They didn't want to say

1760
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:20,877
anything. kind of like where you know
you you see Mark now coming out and

1761
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:23,037
finally saying okay the Hunter Biden

1762
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:28,317
laptop thing maybe you know that wasn't
good but this was 2016 it was it was a

1763
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:31,917
different universe so they they were
hoping that I would take this leave of

1764
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:36,557
absence disappear until after the election
they believed Hillary would win

1765
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:40,557
and then if Hillary won they thought all
their employees and the press would kind

1766
01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:44,717
of forget about this whole thing because
it would just be this crazy time that

1767
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,397
Palmer supported that fringe candidate
who lost in a landslide to Hillary

1768
01:39:48,480 --> 01:39:51,517
Clinton. Remember, she had
a 95% chance of winning. So

1769
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:53,197
>> now I told them
this was a bad strategy.

1770
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:56,877
I said, "Guys, what you don't understand
is Donald Trump is going to win." And

1771
01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:59,997
they thought that I was just like insane.
They like literally when I said

1772
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:03,117
that, they said, "Wow, I thought you

1773
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:05,757
were a smart person." I'm like, "No,

1774
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:07,677
guys, I am a smart person. Donald Trump

1775
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:12,797
is going to win." Like I will accept
that there's a possibility he won't, but

1776
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:17,197
all of the signs are that he is going
to win. Like the problem is that the media

1777
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:19,277
is reporting on Donald Trump the same

1778
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:21,837
way that they're reporting on me. An

1779
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:24,477
absurd, totally baseless way that is out

1780
01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:28,957
of touch with reality. Don't fall
for that. And uh they said, "No, no, you

1781
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:31,037
have to stay out of the office till
after the election." So the day after

1782
01:40:31,120 --> 01:40:35,197
the election, Trump had won. They said,
"Actually, you can't come back to the

1783
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:37,517
office." >> Are you serious?
>> I'm serious. They said, "You can't come

1784
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:40,877
back into the office." And that was when
the machinery went into motion to get

1785
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:42,317
rid of me. They realized that with Trump

1786
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:44,717
in office that and like there were

1787
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:48,157
Facebook executives publicly saying I

1788
01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:52,557
will not work with Trump supporters.
I will not have them on my team. Which is

1789
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:55,677
although by the way illegal in California,
but you know, you you'd have

1790
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:59,917
to bring a case about it. And especially
back then, Republicans weren't really I

1791
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,557
think we weren't punching square.
I think that most of them were like, I

1792
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:05,597
just want to get [__] done. I just want
to get paid. I'm not I'm not trying to

1793
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:09,517
be a professional victim, right?
Like what what what red-blooded Republican

1794
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:13,677
man wants to basically go into
a courtroom be like they're so mean to me?

1795
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:18,797
They said they said that they don't like
me cuz I voted for Trump. Like doesn't

1796
01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:22,397
that just sound like this is like
the the dumbest little [__] ever? Like

1797
01:41:22,480 --> 01:41:26,317
wouldn't everyone laugh at you even
if you won? And I think and so people

1798
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:28,877
didn't people people wanted to they
wanted to get work done. They didn't

1799
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:31,357
want to they didn't want to be
a professional victim and put themselves

1800
01:41:31,440 --> 01:41:35,437
out there as the whiny, you know,
whiny little boy who who who sad his

1801
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:38,317
co-workers don't like him.
in a hostile workplace environment.

1802
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:41,437
>> Did you have any conversations
with Zuckerberg and in person?

1803
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:45,277
>> No, because the lawyers were very
like they they they very quickly isolate

1804
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:48,557
things like this. Like the moment they
realized that this was turning into a

1805
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:51,517
problem, they like they're like you
cannot come to the office. You cannot

1806
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:54,557
send any messages. You cannot send any
emails. You may only communicate through

1807
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:58,317
attorneys. Like there there is a
lockdown protocol to minimize to

1808
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:00,477
minimize accountability on these things.

1809
01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:03,917
And so it wasn't until uh and so they

1810
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:07,517
they told me though even even after the
election they said you can come back. We

1811
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:10,957
really need you. Like we all recognize
that you're the guy and that you're

1812
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:14,557
you're a critical part of the team.
We just need you to stay out of the office

1813
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:18,157
for a little longer and we're going
to figure this all out. And then January

1814
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:22,477
rolled around and uh their attorneys
called my attorneys and said, "You're

1815
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:25,597
being fired. You're being terminated
without cause." Oh, that was the other

1816
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:28,717
thing I forgot. They launched
an internal investigation into me. They

1817
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,997
wanted to try and dig up some kind
of policy violation. They wanted to try to

1818
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:35,997
find a reason to fire me that they could
say had nothing to do with politics. And

1819
01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:40,077
so that went for months and they
dug through all my emails and all my

1820
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:41,917
communications. And they interviewed

1821
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:47,197
dozens of Facebook employees being like
just like full Gustapo style. You know,

1822
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:50,877
what have you ever heard about Palmer
Lucky doing something bad? Like what

1823
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:53,837
what do you know? What have you ever
heard? And I was like, I literally have

1824
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:57,277
never heard Palmer even mention politics.
He's just like a VR guy. He

1825
01:42:57,360 --> 01:43:01,117
gave $9,000 to this Trump group,
I think, on a whim because he has billions

1826
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,997
of dollars like like this doesn't seem

1827
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:08,557
he he's and so they they tried to find
something on me and they found literally

1828
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:11,997
nothing. So their investigation
concluded and I I remember being in the

1829
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:15,597
room with because it's a formal process
and they they let you know when you're

1830
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:19,917
being investigated and in the end they
said we just want we found no violations

1831
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:21,837
of Facebook policy at any point in your

1832
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:27,117
tenure. And I and and like
so that was when they

1833
01:43:27,200 --> 01:43:31,037
realized they were going to have to fire
me without cause. They just said, "Well,

1834
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:34,957
we were paying you tens of millions
of dollars a year and we've just decided

1835
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:38,557
for no reason. We don't need you
employed anymore." And uh it was it look

1836
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:40,397
it was it was totally ridiculous. It was

1837
01:43:40,480 --> 01:43:43,117
totally trumped up. [snorts] They didn't

1838
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:47,517
ever ask me about people who were
discriminating against me for my

1839
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:49,837
politics, right? They they were
they were saying, "Oh, we did this

1840
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:53,517
investigation and Palmer was not fired
for his politics." Like, well, you never

1841
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:56,877
asked me about it. If you would have
told me, "Palmer, are you aware of any

1842
01:43:56,960 --> 01:44:00,077
instances of people being discriminated
against their politics?" Like, "Yeah, I

1843
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:03,197
give you like two dozen." If they
asked me, "Palmer, were you fired from

1844
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:06,077
politics?" Like, "Yeah, I can literally
give you the emails and messages where

1845
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:10,397
people explicitly state that they will
not work with me because of how I" And

1846
01:44:10,480 --> 01:44:13,837
so, like it was it was just it was it
was insanity. Like, they and they were

1847
01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:16,477
the worst part is they were even telling
the media this. They were saying, "Oh,

1848
01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:20,557
no. It was it was Palmer's decision
to leave. Literally untrue. I was I was

1849
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:24,637
terminated. They said they told one
journalist uh off the record, but you

1850
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:27,677
know, off the record doesn't mean
anything. Um they told one journalist

1851
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:30,557
off the record that uh it was something

1852
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:32,877
like they said, "Look, Palmer leaving

1853
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:37,837
was his decisions. It's not like this
is Soviet Russia where you say something

1854
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:41,837
say some the wrong thing about the wrong
politician and then get disappeared." It

1855
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:43,757
was it was literally just like that.

1856
01:44:43,840 --> 01:44:47,357
Anyway, I'm sorry I seem worked up about
this, but just like I I I hate getting

1857
01:44:47,440 --> 01:44:50,477
back into this headsp
space because it was just

1858
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:52,237
>> it was supposed to if I was you, too.

1859
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:54,797
>> I mean, it you got to remember this was

1860
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:59,677
this was Sorry, I need to do some water.

1861
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:02,637
>> Oculus was everything to me.

1862
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:04,477
All my friends worked at Oculus.

1863
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:08,637
Remember I told it was started by me and
all my all my friends worked there. All

1864
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:11,037
the friends that I made working over the

1865
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:14,397
course of, you know, half a decade on

1866
01:45:14,480 --> 01:45:18,157
that particular product were were there.

1867
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:20,397
My reputation was there. My work was

1868
01:45:20,480 --> 01:45:23,197
there. All of the technology that I've

1869
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:25,597
been developing since I was 13 years old

1870
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:29,117
for VR was owned by that company. of

1871
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:31,917
everything like I was Oculus and then

1872
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:36,477
they said, "No, we're taking it all
away from you and you can't even talk to

1873
01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:40,637
anybody or we're going to come after you
and if you say a word of this to anyone,

1874
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:42,477
we're we're going to come after you."

1875
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:45,117
And so for me, it was just it was a a

1876
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:49,277
catastrophically destructive event. And

1877
01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:51,357
I I wish that I would have acted

1878
01:45:51,440 --> 01:45:54,077
differently in the moment. But the the

1879
01:45:54,160 --> 01:45:56,477
mistake I made was trusting that people

1880
01:45:56,560 --> 01:46:01,357
could have different politics from me
but still treat me fairly. And I didn't

1881
01:46:01,440 --> 01:46:03,917
realize that when they told me, "Oh,
you're still important part of the

1882
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:06,077
team." I didn't realize that was a pure

1883
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:09,837
manipulation tactic to prevent me from

1884
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:13,277
leverage. Like I had leverage. There
were things that they needed from me.

1885
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:17,277
There were things I was doing. They
basically were just manipulating me to

1886
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:19,597
try and squeeze the last little bit of

1887
01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:24,717
juice for me for a few months before
just getting rid of me. Wow. Yep.

1888
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:27,917
Anyway, that was that was how that all
went down. What would you have done

1889
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:31,437
different? So, first of all,

1890
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:34,557
I would have put out my own statement

1891
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:38,477
which which I had already written. I I
I I should have just put it out. And the

1892
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:41,357
thing is I realized later, I didn't know

1893
01:46:41,440 --> 01:46:44,077
at the time that political activity

1894
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:47,037
outside of your employer, like outside

1895
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:49,917
of your job is protected. At least in

1896
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:54,717
California, they cannot do anything
about polit like they cannot tell you to

1897
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:56,637
not endorse a candidate, for example.

1898
01:46:56,720 --> 01:46:59,837
They can tell you you can't do it
wearing a Facebook shirt. You can't do

1899
01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:02,397
it while you're on the clock at Facebook.
Of course, lots of Facebook

1900
01:47:02,480 --> 01:47:05,277
employees do that. You know, they
Hillary Clinton was was everywhere. They

1901
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:09,197
were literally using the campus print
shop to print I'm with her posters that

1902
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:12,237
they were plastering all over San
Francisco. Like if you were for Hillary,

1903
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:16,317
it was absolutely no problem. But I
should have said, you know what, that

1904
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:20,397
that aside, I should have just gone out
and said, hey, the media is lying. They

1905
01:47:20,480 --> 01:47:24,397
are lying to all of you. This is
completely false. This is a like this is

1906
01:47:24,480 --> 01:47:29,197
fake news to the ultimate degree. The
press is lying about me to try and take

1907
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:34,397
my scalp. And I think that would have
probably caused a lot of it would have

1908
01:47:34,480 --> 01:47:36,797
pissed them off because I wouldn't
have been allowing them to run the PR

1909
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:39,757
strategy. But the way that it's supposed
to work, just if you've never worked at

1910
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:43,917
a big company, the trade you're making
when you allow the company to run your

1911
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:45,997
PR strategy is implicitly that they're

1912
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:47,597
not going to fire you, right? Basically,

1913
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:51,037
it's it's okay. The trade is do things

1914
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:56,237
our way and you get to stay safe because
otherwise there's no incentive to do

1915
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:59,117
things their way. Otherwise, you do just
go off on your own. You say, "Fuck you.

1916
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:02,637
I'm going to do whatever I want.
I shouldn't have made that trade. I should

1917
01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:06,237
have gone out gotten the truth out there.
And I think people would have

1918
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:09,757
been pissed that I didn't let Facebook,
you know, do their preferred option,

1919
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:12,717
which was to say nothing bad about the
They literally told me I couldn't I said

1920
01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:15,517
I'm I'm against Hillary Clinton because
I think she's going to drag us into

1921
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:17,597
World War II. She said that she's going

1922
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:22,797
to enforce the nofly zone in Syria,
which is like that is saying I'm going

1923
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:24,557
to shoot down. People think I will

1924
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:29,837
enforce a no-fly zone means you just
like say words and it's like mean to

1925
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:33,437
pretend you have the authority. No,
enforcing a no-fly zone means that a

1926
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:36,557
Russian aircraft is going to enter
Syrian airspace and the United States is

1927
01:48:36,640 --> 01:48:40,957
going to shoot it down. And I I was I
was looking at I was like, "Holy shit."

1928
01:48:41,040 --> 01:48:43,997
I like I'm one of the people who
wants to get out of the Middle East,

1929
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:45,757
especially at the tail end of things.

1930
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:50,637
I'm like, "That will drag us back."
Can you imagine doing doing this [__] all

1931
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:53,437
over again with the Russians
in the Middle East?

1932
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:56,237
And they said, "You can't say any of this.
You cannot say anything negative

1933
01:48:56,320 --> 01:48:59,277
about Hillary Clinton. You cannot say
anything positive about Donald Trump."

1934
01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:02,637
And I should have just realized, "Wait
a sec. I this is literally illegal. I

1935
01:49:02,720 --> 01:49:05,037
should just put it out there."
They would have been upset with me

1936
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:08,637
temporarily that I didn't follow their
strategy, but it would have been much

1937
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:11,117
harder for them to fire me in the end.

1938
01:49:11,200 --> 01:49:13,357
The master stroke of their strategy was

1939
01:49:13,440 --> 01:49:16,237
that in refusing to deny the allegations

1940
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:19,117
against me, they became true. Right?

1941
01:49:19,200 --> 01:49:21,517
Perception is reality. my refusal to

1942
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:25,357
address them and Facebook's refusal to

1943
01:49:25,440 --> 01:49:28,797
point out that it was all made up.
In the minds of everybody, they said,

1944
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:32,637
"Well, it's it must be true.
He is funding white supremacist troll

1945
01:49:32,720 --> 01:49:35,117
campaigns. He is funding people to

1946
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:37,117
attack other people on the internet. He

1947
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:42,237
is funding a title wave of anti-semitic
memes all over the internet because why

1948
01:49:42,320 --> 01:49:46,157
wouldn't they believe it? I never even
said that it wasn't true." And I I think

1949
01:49:46,240 --> 01:49:47,837
if if I had made clear that it wasn't

1950
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:53,360
true, they I probably would have
gotten through it. [sighs and gasps]

1951
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:59,357
>> Wow. >> It's a it's a it's it's
a >> what a crazy place to work.

1952
01:49:59,440 --> 01:50:02,717
>> It really Well, and you know what
was even crazier was that they maintained

1953
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:06,237
for years and years and years that I was

1954
01:50:06,320 --> 01:50:08,157
not fired for my politics. Zuck got

1955
01:50:08,240 --> 01:50:09,757
asked about it when he was in front of

1956
01:50:09,840 --> 01:50:13,437
Congress. Um yeah, it was Ted Cruz who

1957
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:18,157
asked him uh Senator Cruz uh you know
uh why you know why did you fire Palmer

1958
01:50:18,240 --> 01:50:20,957
Lucky and he said oh I I don't think
that's an appropriate this is an

1959
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:23,757
appropriate form. He said you have
to answer the question and Zach said

1960
01:50:23,840 --> 01:50:25,597
something like

1961
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:29,677
I I I can only commit that it was not uh

1962
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:33,837
it was not a political matter or something
like that which was to be fair

1963
01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:37,517
to Mark I don't think he was lying.
I think that his team had correctly

1964
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:40,077
properly insulated him from from it.

1965
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:44,077
Like when when when you're illegally
firing employees for their politics, you

1966
01:50:44,160 --> 01:50:47,677
don't bring that to the most important
people in the company and basically

1967
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:52,957
poison them. Like that's poisoning the
king. Like to show if you're like, "Hey

1968
01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:57,117
king, here's this thing. Uh we're
performing illegal activity." Like you

1969
01:50:57,200 --> 01:50:58,957
you've just screwed them over now

1970
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:03,037
because now they do know. And uh now am

1971
01:51:03,120 --> 01:51:06,557
I to say that there's no sus there
was no suspicion or you know a kind of

1972
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:08,397
understanding as to what would happen of

1973
01:51:08,480 --> 01:51:12,077
you know I I wouldn't go that far but

1974
01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:16,317
it was crazy how they maintained
for years and years and years that polit

1975
01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:20,557
they literally literally their CTO
Andrew Bosworth publicly on multiple

1976
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:22,877
occasions said Palmer's termination had

1977
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:26,877
nothing to do with politics. It was not

1978
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:30,637
a factor in any way whatsoever.

1979
01:51:30,720 --> 01:51:33,677
And they were telling people, they
started telling me that I was fired for

1980
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:36,797
cause. They're like, "Oh, we can't tell
you why he was fired, but believe me, we

1981
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:40,637
had no choice.
He did something that was just beyond

1982
01:51:40,720 --> 01:51:44,877
the pale. We had to fire him. We had no
choice." Um, I did, by the way, sort of

1983
01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:47,277
get victory on this. So, uh, I will give

1984
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:49,597
credit to him. Andrew Bosworth about a

1985
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:54,557
month ago did post on Twitter. He said
something like, you can pull up the

1986
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:58,477
exact one if you want and put it up
on the screen. He said something like, "I

1987
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:01,037
want to apologize to Palmer Lucky. I've

1988
01:52:01,120 --> 01:52:03,357
been saying things about him in the past

1989
01:52:03,440 --> 01:52:05,597
that weren't true. I just want people to

1990
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:08,397
know that I was misled by others and

1991
01:52:08,480 --> 01:52:10,397
that we are sorry and it shouldn't have

1992
01:52:10,480 --> 01:52:13,437
gone down that way and I was wrong." So,

1993
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:17,757
they are actually finally acknowledging
that the story they were putting out

1994
01:52:17,840 --> 01:52:19,757
there that politics was not a factor and

1995
01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:22,157
that I was fired for any reason at all

1996
01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:25,917
is is nonsense. But uh you know it's a

1997
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:29,197
it's it's a it's sparse
comfort a decade on.

1998
01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:32,637
>> Yeah. Wow. So you leave I mean are you

1999
01:52:32,720 --> 01:52:35,757
involved with Eddie VR now?

2000
01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:41,117
>> A little bit. We've got some big news
coming soon. Big news on the andal side.

2001
01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:44,477
>> I tell you we're going to break that
here in a little bit. All right. Let's

2002
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:51,480
take a quick break. Let's do it. When we
come back we'll get into and sounds good.

2003
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:04,797
I have one more thing actually that's
fun along those lines. I recently got

2004
01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:06,797
the the Meta Ray-B bands. Have you seen

2005
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:08,957
those? The little camera glasses

2006
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:11,917
>> and um it it once it's all set up it

2007
01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:16,237
says ask Meta about anything. Just say

2008
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:19,597
okay Meta and then ask your question.

2009
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:21,997
It's like

2010
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:25,597
Okay, Meta, when was Palmer Lucky fired?

2011
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:27,517
And it goes [laughter] boop. Palmer

2012
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:31,437
Lucky was fired on March 29th, 2017

2013
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,397
after being found guilty of stealing

2014
01:53:34,480 --> 01:53:36,717
intellectual property in a trade secret

2015
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:41,677
lawsuit. And then it links to a story
on ZDNet where the guy says, "I was found

2016
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:45,197
guilty of this crime." But he's
literally wrong. It literally didn't

2017
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:48,877
happen because first of all, being found
guilty is for criminal cases, not civil

2018
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:51,917
cases. two, I literally won on all of

2019
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:56,077
the charges around trade secrets. Like,
we literally won on and the judge threw

2020
01:53:56,160 --> 01:53:59,677
out all the damages against me and said,
"Yeah, he's not guilty of any of this."

2021
01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:04,077
So, like, but what's crazy is,
of course, like the average person, like

2022
01:54:04,160 --> 01:54:07,677
you you ask these questions and these
things that journalists write are being

2023
01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:10,637
brought up years in the future as the

2024
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:12,957
basis for AI knowledge. And like you, if

2025
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:15,437
you ask these AI systems, as far as they

2026
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:18,877
know, it's all true. It's all true. So,

2027
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:20,797
you know, according to these AIs, I was

2028
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:24,877
fired after I funded a title wave of

2029
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:29,357
anti-semitic memes.
>> And it's just and like and how do you

2030
01:54:29,440 --> 01:54:32,637
undo that, right? It's like it's it's
this persistent harm that just lasts

2031
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:35,757
forever. Like, let's say that I could
get them by sending my lawyers after

2032
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:38,157
them now to remove these stories. Well,

2033
01:54:38,240 --> 01:54:42,797
there's still these huge AI models
that have been trained on a decade now of

2034
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:46,637
reporting and re-reporting. How do you
how do you undo that? It's a it's a it's

2035
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:50,157
a big problem when you've got so
much [__] that's been put out there. A

2036
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:53,037
title wave of it.
I'd say maybe the majority of it.

2037
01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:56,477
>> Well, I think the the good news is I
think the majority of people now know

2038
01:54:56,560 --> 01:55:00,237
that legacy media is complete [__] >>
Well, that's why the media is so freaked

2039
01:55:00,320 --> 01:55:03,277
out. >> Yeah. Yeah.
It's they're trying they're

2040
01:55:03,360 --> 01:55:06,877
now trying to replicate podcasts.

2041
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:09,677
>> Yep. You I mean you you you saw the bit

2042
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:13,997
where Elon was saying to people he
says you are the media now in the modern

2043
01:55:14,080 --> 01:55:17,677
world. you have the tools to get
your message out and people can amplify

2044
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:21,677
others based on who has the closest
proximity to the real information who

2045
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:25,917
actually has the activity like we
can be primary sources we don't need

2046
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:29,597
intermediaries and then you have like
the national press club you see this

2047
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:31,277
speech where they have this guy up on

2048
01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:33,437
stage he says he doesn't matter what

2049
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:36,877
Elon says they are not the press we are

2050
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:38,877
the press I'm like oh my god this guy's

2051
01:55:38,960 --> 01:55:42,637
so he's so out of touch with just the

2052
01:55:42,720 --> 01:55:45,917
American moment Like like who's going to

2053
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:47,757
hear that and be like, "Yeah, he's

2054
01:55:47,840 --> 01:55:50,797
right. How dare citizen journalists

2055
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:53,437
without credentials report on things?"

2056
01:55:53,520 --> 01:55:59,277
>> Yeah. Wow. >> So you get So you're done
at Facebook, you got fired from Facebook.

2057
01:55:59,360 --> 01:56:03,917
>> Yep. >> And then you
move into Andural. So how

2058
01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:06,237
long is the How long's the gap here?

2059
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:10,157
>> Same day. >> I literally >>
I literally picked up the phone

2060
01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:12,397
>> and I had been talking with people.

2061
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:14,477
Well, I got to backtrack a little bit.

2062
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:16,477
Before I started Oculus, when I was a

2063
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:20,957
teenager, I had worked for almost a year

2064
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:23,277
on an army project called Bravemind.

2065
01:56:23,360 --> 01:56:24,477
Have you ever heard of this? No.

2066
01:56:24,560 --> 01:56:28,637
>> It was at the ICT mixed reality lab. Uh

2067
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:31,917
there was a project that was being
worked on called Bravemind that was

2068
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:36,397
using virtual reality exposure therapy
to treat veterans with PTSD. The idea

2069
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:39,677
was that you could put them
into virtual reality simulations

2070
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:42,797
of things that would trigger their PTSD.

2071
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:47,357
Uh, and you could teach them coping
exercises, thinking exercises to

2072
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:50,557
mitigate their physiological responses
under the guidance of a licensed

2073
01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:54,317
therapist. You could also expose them
to things that they might be exposed to in

2074
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:55,997
the battlefield ahead of time to help

2075
01:56:56,080 --> 01:57:01,757
them learn how to cope with that ahead
of time. And uh, I was not doing any

2076
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:03,837
important work on the program. I don't
want to make it sound like I was like

2077
01:57:03,920 --> 01:57:07,197
one of the key researchers. I was the
cable monkey. I was the lab technician.

2078
01:57:07,280 --> 01:57:11,277
I was making making stuff go, making
headmounted displays work, designing

2079
01:57:11,360 --> 01:57:13,037
stuff to kind of support the program.

2080
01:57:13,120 --> 01:57:15,197
But that was my first exposure to how

2081
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:20,237
the government uses technology, the good
that it can do in our military, but also

2082
01:57:20,320 --> 01:57:23,757
how broken a lot of the procurement
systems are in terms of how they buy

2083
01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:27,837
things, how they procure things,
the incentives that happen when you have

2084
01:57:27,920 --> 01:57:31,437
cost plus contracts involved. cost plus
contractors involved who make more money

2085
01:57:31,520 --> 01:57:34,957
when the contract runs long, more
money when they make the more expensive

2086
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:37,117
decisions rather than the faster, more

2087
01:57:37,200 --> 01:57:40,157
efficient decisions. And that

2088
01:57:40,240 --> 01:57:44,157
experience, small as it was, stuck with
me through my whole career. And I had a

2089
01:57:44,240 --> 01:57:48,077
lot of conversations with friends who
did work in defense, whether working

2090
01:57:48,160 --> 01:57:50,957
literally, you know, uh, in the military

2091
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:55,837
or building tools for the military who
gave me these stories that you would

2092
01:57:55,920 --> 01:57:59,197
just never believe about how broken
things were, how much money was being

2093
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:02,637
wasted and grafted and misspent.

2094
01:58:02,720 --> 01:58:04,877
And so when I made all my Oculus money,

2095
01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:09,837
one of the first things I did was try to
find small defense startups that I could

2096
01:58:09,920 --> 01:58:14,077
invest in that had a shot at changing
this. My thinking was, okay, I've made

2097
01:58:14,160 --> 01:58:18,317
all this money. I don't have the time
to work on this problem at all, but I want

2098
01:58:18,400 --> 01:58:22,077
to find companies that have a shot
at changing this structure, proving that

2099
01:58:22,160 --> 01:58:26,477
you can apply technology from the tech
industry and bring it into, you know,

2100
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:28,717
bring it into uh into these defense

2101
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:32,877
spaces in a really meaningful way. And I

2102
01:58:32,960 --> 01:58:36,157
ended up not really making any
investments. There was a couple tiny

2103
01:58:36,240 --> 01:58:38,877
things, but nothing material because
I couldn't find anybody who was doing

2104
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:41,677
things the way that I wanted. I couldn't
find anyone who was trying to build

2105
01:58:41,760 --> 01:58:45,357
basically the next Loheed Martin
or the next Northrup Grman. I mostly found

2106
01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:49,037
companies that were building some little
gizmo or gadget but like a part of the

2107
01:58:49,120 --> 01:58:52,237
bigger machine but they weren't going
to change anything and they weren't out

2108
01:58:52,320 --> 01:58:56,157
there trying to change
things at a big scale.

2109
01:58:56,240 --> 01:58:58,717
And so I made some friends who were
doing a similar thing. So one of those

2110
01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:03,117
was Trey Stevens who's one of the
co-founders at Anderall. He was at the

2111
01:59:03,200 --> 01:59:05,917
time working full-time as a venture
capitalist at Founders Fund, which is

2112
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:08,637
Peter Teal's venture firm
[snorts and clears throat]

2113
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:13,837
or one of his venture firms rather.
And uh he was full-time trying to find

2114
01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:16,797
exactly the same thing I was. He
was meeting with hundreds of small defense

2115
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:20,557
companies trying to find ones that were
had a shot of really becoming something

2116
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:23,357
big and meaningful. And uh we ended up

2117
01:59:23,440 --> 01:59:27,677
becoming friends. I met Brian Shy who
was director of engineering at Palunteer

2118
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:31,757
at the time. uh and a few other people,
my friend Joe Chen, who was an early

2119
01:59:31,840 --> 01:59:35,677
Oculus employee, former paratrooper,
really interested in trying to figure

2120
01:59:35,760 --> 01:59:39,437
out how to use technology to make DoD
better. And so what happened was uh

2121
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:43,037
after these years of meeting all
the time and just complaining, oh my god,

2122
01:59:43,120 --> 01:59:47,037
isn't this all screwed up? Aren't we
wasting so much money on nonsense? Isn't

2123
01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:50,717
it a shame there's no company that could
come in and really go toe-to-toe with

2124
01:59:50,800 --> 01:59:55,117
these big guys and, you know, give
them a threat? And uh the day that I was

2125
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:58,957
fired, I picked up the phone. I called
Joe and I called Brian and I called

2126
01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:01,757
Trey. I said, "Hey, you know guys, we've

2127
02:00:01,840 --> 02:00:06,477
been trying to find a company that we
could invest in that does this. I think

2128
02:00:06,560 --> 02:00:09,197
we should start it ourselves.
I think now's the moment." And they said,

2129
02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:12,637
"Palmer, we're all so busy like,
you know, running engineering at Palunteer

2130
02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:14,797
or being a venture capitalist or in your

2131
02:00:14,880 --> 02:00:20,067
case running Oculus." I said, you know,
it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

2132
02:00:20,150 --> 02:00:22,877
[laughter] And so that was really that was

2133
02:00:22,960 --> 02:00:27,757
>> so they had no idea >> that I
I I I let I let them know but you

2134
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:30,877
know it was it was um >> that's
a sacrifice I'm willing to take.

2135
02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:33,197
>> It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

2136
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:36,637
And uh and so I I I'd say like the early

2137
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:40,717
the early Andreal crew is like that
group of people that had been thinking

2138
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:45,517
all these problems. Uh some people from
Oculus who resigned when they fired me.

2139
02:00:45,600 --> 02:00:48,877
There was there was a there was a pretty
large contingent of people who said what

2140
02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:52,397
you did to Palmer is [__] up.
and wrong and I refused to be part of it.

2141
02:00:52,480 --> 02:00:55,437
I'm out of here. And uh the funniest

2142
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:58,397
part is that of that contingent kind of

2143
02:00:58,480 --> 02:01:00,877
the the people who left because of the

2144
02:01:00,960 --> 02:01:05,837
way Facebook treated me then many
of them came to work at Andreal and

2145
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:07,197
they said Paul what are you doing next?

2146
02:01:07,280 --> 02:01:10,557
Like I I want to be
a part of whatever it is.

2147
02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:15,037
And then some of them when they found
out I was starting a weapons company

2148
02:01:15,120 --> 02:01:18,877
never talked to me again. They're like
they were they were huge fans of me.

2149
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:20,557
They believed I was treated unfairly.

2150
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:24,397
And then when they found out that the
thing I thought was most important to me

2151
02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:28,157
for to work on, which is to build better
tools for our national security, save

2152
02:01:28,240 --> 02:01:30,877
taxpayers hundreds of billions by making

2153
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:33,597
tens of billions, they they literally

2154
02:01:33,680 --> 02:01:38,237
concluded that I had become an evil
person and never wanted to talk to me

2155
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:42,317
again. Some of them have then come back
around as world events have shifted like

2156
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:44,957
you know this is 2017. So, as it became

2157
02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:47,117
more clear that China is an aggressor

2158
02:01:47,200 --> 02:01:49,837
and not a benevolent fountain of money,

2159
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:52,397
as it became clear that Russia is still

2160
02:01:52,480 --> 02:01:54,717
an expansionist dictatorship and not a

2161
02:01:54,800 --> 02:01:57,597
reformed quasi western gas station, uh

2162
02:01:57,680 --> 02:02:01,757
people have come back and said, "Okay,
I was wrong. What you're doing is not

2163
02:02:01,840 --> 02:02:05,597
evil." But at the time it was very
controversial. A lot of people believed

2164
02:02:05,680 --> 02:02:07,917
that anything you did with the military

2165
02:02:08,000 --> 02:02:10,557
was either useless or evil or

2166
02:02:10,640 --> 02:02:14,957
wararmongering. The fact that you were
saving them money was actually to the

2167
02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:18,077
detriment. Like I said, guys, we're
we're spending way too much money on

2168
02:02:18,160 --> 02:02:21,277
these weapon systems. They said, "Oh,
so you're going to make it so they can buy

2169
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:25,597
10 times as many weapons?" Wow. As if
that's better. Like, well, well, guys,

2170
02:02:25,680 --> 02:02:27,757
if you hate the military, like if you

2171
02:02:27,840 --> 02:02:32,717
hate NATO, for example, like,
should they be armed with water balloons?

2172
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:34,717
Should they be armed with slingshots?

2173
02:02:34,800 --> 02:02:38,637
Like, like what what level of force are
you okay with them having? Like if you

2174
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:43,197
if you believe that NATO has any reason
to exist at a level beyond like kids

2175
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:46,877
with water balloons, then you should
probably want them to be armed with

2176
02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:51,117
things that can actually beat our
adversaries. And the problem is that at

2177
02:02:51,200 --> 02:02:54,797
that point people just they stop talking
to you and say, "Fuck you, fascist." And

2178
02:02:54,880 --> 02:02:58,797
they move like you can't reason someone
out of an opinion that they didn't

2179
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:01,197
reason themselves into. And and when

2180
02:03:01,280 --> 02:03:03,277
people when you start to try to pull

2181
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:06,557
them out of the matrix, they are often

2182
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:09,197
unable to unable to make the jump.

2183
02:03:09,280 --> 02:03:12,840
>> It's a great quote.

2184
02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:17,437
>> So Andrew started So Andrew started we

2185
02:03:17,520 --> 02:03:21,677
wanted to build not a defense contractor
but a defense products company. Use our

2186
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:25,837
own money to decide what to build, how
to build it, decide when it's done, and

2187
02:03:25,920 --> 02:03:29,117
then sell products based on those
technologies to the United States

2188
02:03:29,200 --> 02:03:33,997
government. I was a strong believer
and I I I get to look like a visionary

2189
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:37,757
today, but back then I looked like
a crazy person. I was a strong believer

2190
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:41,917
that the entire future of warfare would
be defined by artificial intelligence

2191
02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:43,837
and autonomy. This fundamental

2192
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:48,477
decoupling of the 1:1 ratio from shooter

2193
02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:52,397
to weapon, from pilot to plane, to allow

2194
02:03:52,480 --> 02:03:55,597
smaller numbers of people to wield many

2195
02:03:55,680 --> 02:03:59,517
swords was kind of the was kind of the
thinking there. I knew that would that

2196
02:03:59,600 --> 02:04:03,437
would change everything. Not just with
small cheap drones, but even with large

2197
02:04:03,520 --> 02:04:08,237
scale systems, like if you can get
people out of harm's way, and if you can

2198
02:04:08,320 --> 02:04:12,397
allow them to leverage their own
intellect beyond what they can hold and

2199
02:04:12,480 --> 02:04:17,357
steer with their own two hands,
if you can basically become a person who

2200
02:04:17,440 --> 02:04:21,917
manages weapons at a higher level while
they micromanage the second to second

2201
02:04:22,000 --> 02:04:25,677
execution of your commands, you can
fundamentally change warfare in a way

2202
02:04:25,760 --> 02:04:31,117
that I think is very accreative to US
interests and very very against the

2203
02:04:31,200 --> 02:04:34,237
world that let's say China or Russia
wants to exist largely because I think

2204
02:04:34,320 --> 02:04:38,957
these advantages acrew mostly to the
defender. Uh if you're trying to build a

2205
02:04:39,040 --> 02:04:42,477
military that is designed to turn
your allies into prickly porcupines that

2206
02:04:42,560 --> 02:04:47,357
nobody wants to step on like you have
in NATO or most US operations. Uh that's

2207
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:51,117
that's really useful if you're trying to
build a military where you need to let's

2208
02:04:51,200 --> 02:04:54,877
say go into Taiwan with landing craft
and get millions of soldiers there and

2209
02:04:54,960 --> 02:04:57,997
invade and then occupy their territory.

2210
02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:01,277
All of the stuff I just talked about
is a nightmare for you. Like it doesn't

2211
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:03,277
actually help you. The ability to wield

2212
02:05:03,360 --> 02:05:05,997
many swords per arm is not that useful

2213
02:05:06,080 --> 02:05:09,597
for occupying a resistant hostile land.

2214
02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:12,957
It's it's it's a lot better for you know

2215
02:05:13,040 --> 02:05:15,997
slug it out largecale great power fights

2216
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:20,157
and that's what the United States needs
to need needs to focus on winning for

2217
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:22,637
the most part at least right now.

2218
02:05:22,720 --> 02:05:27,357
So were you how were you aware of how it
works then with the military industrial

2219
02:05:27,440 --> 02:05:29,837
complex? >> Oh yeah.
I mean look like maybe

2220
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:32,877
>> how did you know that going with the
with all the VR stuff you were doing?

2221
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:36,397
>> I had I like I said you know I had
exposure from the Brave mind stuff and

2222
02:05:36,480 --> 02:05:39,517
I'd become interested in the problem but I
done a lot of research and I'd kind of

2223
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:42,957
been building a theory of how someone
might be able to fix this. I'm not but

2224
02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:45,757
there were a lot of assumptions I made
were that were wrong. Some were right.

2225
02:05:45,840 --> 02:05:48,717
Like I I don't want to make it sound
like I came in day one and I understood

2226
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:53,197
the whole landscape, but you know, I had
my I had my beautiful mind chart up on

2227
02:05:53,280 --> 02:05:56,797
the on the wall with all the with all
the strings and all the pins connecting

2228
02:05:56,880 --> 02:05:58,797
where I thought where I thought the bad

2229
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:03,837
[__] was and where we could be going
after. Um, and I I was right enough like

2230
02:06:03,920 --> 02:06:07,117
I was right. I was right about enough
of the problems that we were able to

2231
02:06:07,200 --> 02:06:11,117
actually get some traction. Basically,
our bet was simple. We decided we were

2232
02:06:11,200 --> 02:06:15,037
going to put all of our money into
building this AI called Blattis, which

2233
02:06:15,120 --> 02:06:19,197
is a military focused AI that is built
to the standards you need for military,

2234
02:06:19,280 --> 02:06:21,037
the reliability you need for military

2235
02:06:21,120 --> 02:06:26,317
that could act as a tool that would
be the brains of dozens of products. So

2236
02:06:26,400 --> 02:06:28,957
basically make LA a lattice, you know,
being something you can build other

2237
02:06:29,040 --> 02:06:30,717
things on top of. they was build this

2238
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:34,397
lattice AI as a sort of core software

2239
02:06:34,480 --> 02:06:36,397
product and then you can build on top of

2240
02:06:36,480 --> 02:06:38,637
it autonomous fighter jets, autonomous

2241
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:42,157
tanks, cruise missiles, small arms,

2242
02:06:42,240 --> 02:06:45,997
surveillance systems, security systems,
drone defense systems and they all kind

2243
02:06:46,080 --> 02:06:50,557
of share this common brain. And so
we started by building Lettuce and we

2244
02:06:50,640 --> 02:06:52,157
started building products on top of it.

2245
02:06:52,240 --> 02:06:55,517
Uh some of them for the military,
some of them for customs and border

2246
02:06:55,600 --> 02:06:57,117
protection. Actually, our first major

2247
02:06:57,200 --> 02:07:00,477
program of record was was with CBP. Uh,

2248
02:07:00,560 --> 02:07:04,557
and uh, against all odds,
we've actually managed

2249
02:07:04,640 --> 02:07:08,157
to make it work. Like, like today,
Android is still making Lattus and we

2250
02:07:08,240 --> 02:07:11,757
have over two dozen different hardware
products that are all using that same AI

2251
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:15,997
brain. >> Wow. Wow.
Like one of our big wins recently.

2252
02:07:16,080 --> 02:07:17,997
>> So, you have basically you're talking

2253
02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:20,797
about Skynet from the Terminator.

2254
02:07:20,880 --> 02:07:24,317
>> Yes. that like I mentioned earlier that

2255
02:07:24,400 --> 02:07:28,477
I read a lot of books and I've
read a lot of science fiction.

2256
02:07:28,560 --> 02:07:29,837
One of the things that I've realized in

2257
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:32,477
my career is that nothing I ever come up

2258
02:07:32,560 --> 02:07:37,677
with will be new. I've I've literally
never come up with an idea that a

2259
02:07:37,760 --> 02:07:40,877
science fiction author has not come up
with before at some point. Which makes

2260
02:07:40,960 --> 02:07:44,477
sense. There's a lot of them. They've
been around for a long time. And they

2261
02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:47,277
don't have to make things and they don't
have to wait to the right moment. You

2262
02:07:47,360 --> 02:07:50,877
remember I started Oculus at just
the right moment for it to succeed. A

2263
02:07:50,960 --> 02:07:53,917
science fiction author doesn't have
to wait for something to be possible to

2264
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:58,077
think about it and to write about it and
for people to be excited about the idea.

2265
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:01,677
And so, uh, every time I've come up
with something, I've been able to find

2266
02:08:01,760 --> 02:08:06,797
usually many, sometimes one science
fiction pieces addressing literally

2267
02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:10,237
exactly that idea by some guy who just
thought thought about it like 50 years

2268
02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:13,917
ago, 60 years ago, 70 years ago. Some
of the stuff that I'm building today, for

2269
02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:17,757
example, in the ARVR space around
augmenting the vision of soldiers, these

2270
02:08:17,840 --> 02:08:20,877
are ideas that are from 1959 like

2271
02:08:20,960 --> 02:08:25,277
Starship Troopers novels, right? Like
these are old ideas that have only very

2272
02:08:25,360 --> 02:08:28,157
recently become technologically feasible.
The idea of autonomous fighter

2273
02:08:28,240 --> 02:08:32,157
jets that's been around for about
a hundred years. The idea of making a

2274
02:08:32,240 --> 02:08:36,477
computer that is so good you can
program it with a general intent at the

2275
02:08:36,560 --> 02:08:40,237
beginning and then it executes on a
mission all on its own. People have been

2276
02:08:40,320 --> 02:08:43,597
thinking of this since computers were
programmed with punch cards. They were

2277
02:08:43,680 --> 02:08:47,357
imagining a punch card computer
that could do the whole management of a

2278
02:08:47,440 --> 02:08:49,357
bombing mission during World War II. The

2279
02:08:49,440 --> 02:08:53,517
tech wasn't ready, but the idea was.

2280
02:08:53,600 --> 02:08:55,677
And so you you're bringing up Skynet and

2281
02:08:55,760 --> 02:09:00,237
I think that uh like Skynet makes a ton

2282
02:09:00,320 --> 02:09:03,117
of sense except for one critical

2283
02:09:03,200 --> 02:09:05,597
mistake. They gave it control of the

2284
02:09:05,680 --> 02:09:08,637
United States nuclear arsenal. Um, like

2285
02:09:08,720 --> 02:09:12,877
I I always like to think how Terminator
might have gone if uh one, you know,

2286
02:09:12,960 --> 02:09:14,637
Skynet wouldn't have achieved sensience.

2287
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:17,917
But even more to the point, what if they
just would have used it for the weapon

2288
02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:20,877
systems that actually make sense for AI
to control, right? There's there's

2289
02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:24,637
actually not a lot of gains in having
an advanced artificial intelligence have

2290
02:09:24,720 --> 02:09:26,237
control of your nuclear weapons. It's

2291
02:09:26,320 --> 02:09:28,957
like, it's all risk and no upside. Mhm.

2292
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:31,677
>> There is a lot of upside in allowing

2293
02:09:31,760 --> 02:09:36,157
people to get out of, let's say, tip
of the spear fighter jets where they are

2294
02:09:36,240 --> 02:09:38,957
going to need to fly into areas that
are very well defended by surface air

2295
02:09:39,040 --> 02:09:42,637
missiles and you know you're going to lose
a large fraction of your of your of

2296
02:09:42,720 --> 02:09:47,437
your fleet. Like that that is a job for
robots, not for people. And so like one

2297
02:09:47,520 --> 02:09:49,917
of the things we said we're going
to build start of the company and probably

2298
02:09:50,000 --> 02:09:53,277
our biggest win that we've had as a
company so far is a recent contract we

2299
02:09:53,360 --> 02:09:56,397
won called CCA. Uh so we won a spot on

2300
02:09:56,480 --> 02:09:59,357
increment one for CCA competing against

2301
02:09:59,440 --> 02:10:03,837
Northup Grumman, Loheed Martin and Boeing.
So it's us toe-to-toe with the

2302
02:10:03,920 --> 02:10:06,157
big guys saying we are going to build a

2303
02:10:06,240 --> 02:10:11,517
fighter jet powered by RAI that
is better than all of the systems

2304
02:10:11,600 --> 02:10:14,317
being proposed by these people who have
been around for a century. And guess

2305
02:10:14,400 --> 02:10:17,117
what? We beat all of them.
>> Damn. Congratulations.

2306
02:10:17,200 --> 02:10:20,877
>> And thank you. It it was a huge moment
for our company. you just see in the

2307
02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:22,957
office. People were screaming and

2308
02:10:23,040 --> 02:10:26,717
cheering and throwing chairs. It was and

2309
02:10:26,800 --> 02:10:29,757
we did it because we managed to build

2310
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:33,837
this very powerful AI system and all the

2311
02:10:33,920 --> 02:10:38,477
expertise we needed to build a fighter
jet that is capable of going toe-to-toe

2312
02:10:38,560 --> 02:10:42,317
with all of these other companies. Like
like oh [__] we've built in eight years

2313
02:10:42,400 --> 02:10:46,957
from like it, you know, Chris Dykus was
employee number one Oculus and employee

2314
02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:51,357
number one at Anderol. was the first guy
to, you know, he he he got right out of

2315
02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:52,797
Facebook, said, "You guys are [__] up.

2316
02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:55,037
I'm going to do whatever Palmer does."

2317
02:10:55,120 --> 02:10:57,917
We've gone from me hiring Chris Dyus as

2318
02:10:58,000 --> 02:11:03,240
employee number one to being selected

2319
02:11:03,840 --> 02:11:08,077
against Lockheed, Boeing, Northrup,
companies that have a stellar, you know,

2320
02:11:08,160 --> 02:11:11,197
stellar reputation for building really
sick aircraft for the better part of a

2321
02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:15,517
century. We've done that. We've we've
gone from me and Chris to that in less

2322
02:11:15,600 --> 02:11:20,557
than eight years. And it's because we
are taking the best of modern technology

2323
02:11:20,640 --> 02:11:23,757
development practices, including many
that I learned while I was at Facebook

2324
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:28,397
in Silicon Valley and bringing them
to defense manufacturing, defense

2325
02:11:28,480 --> 02:11:32,077
production. Like what we're doing is like
I I we're not supermen here, right?

2326
02:11:32,160 --> 02:11:35,517
I'm not saying we're like these
brilliant Einstein level geniuses. What

2327
02:11:35,600 --> 02:11:40,077
we're doing is taking techniques,
approaches, and people who used to be

2328
02:11:40,160 --> 02:11:43,917
making AR mustache emojis in Silicon
Valley and putting them to work on

2329
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:47,277
problems that actually matter, ones that
actually get them stoked in the morning

2330
02:11:47,360 --> 02:11:51,277
to to to come to work. And if you take
the best technologists in the country

2331
02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:54,797
and you put them to work on a problem
that they actually care about and they

2332
02:11:54,880 --> 02:11:56,077
really believe in, you're going to

2333
02:11:56,160 --> 02:11:57,837
extraordinary things come out of it.

2334
02:11:57,920 --> 02:12:02,157
>> So, did this idea develop from Skynet?

2335
02:12:02,240 --> 02:12:03,917
>> I'd say Skynet was maybe part of it.

2336
02:12:04,000 --> 02:12:06,397
like no [__] >> Well,
here's here's what it really is.

2337
02:12:06,480 --> 02:12:08,717
Skynet itself is not actually a unique

2338
02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:12,157
idea. Like the idea of uh of kind of AI

2339
02:12:12,240 --> 02:12:16,477
management systems that are able
to manage large numbers of autonomous

2340
02:12:16,560 --> 02:12:20,077
weapons. They've literally been around
for a hundred years. Like Skynet was

2341
02:12:20,160 --> 02:12:22,317
Skynet was just the one that happened to

2342
02:12:22,400 --> 02:12:24,717
kind of capture the public imagination.

2343
02:12:24,800 --> 02:12:30,077
Uh but there are lots and lots and lots
lots of examples. I mean like not not to

2344
02:12:30,160 --> 02:12:33,117
say that this is the best example, but
look at like Star Wars Episode One, you

2345
02:12:33,200 --> 02:12:36,397
know? I don't know if you remember.
Do you remember Star Wars episode one?

2346
02:12:36,480 --> 02:12:39,437
>> A little bit. Well, you know, the the
the crux of people who haven't watched

2347
02:12:39,520 --> 02:12:42,717
it, which you know, they're not super
missing out. Uh episode 3 was great.

2348
02:12:42,800 --> 02:12:45,597
Episode one, you can you can you you
can skip it if you're not a Star Wars

2349
02:12:45,680 --> 02:12:50,237
person, but the Trade Federation imposes
a blockade on Nebu and they send down

2350
02:12:50,320 --> 02:12:54,157
all of these robots and they're all
controlled by one central AI that's up

2351
02:12:54,240 --> 02:12:57,117
in the ship that's orbiting above
and they have to destroy that ship so that

2352
02:12:57,200 --> 02:13:00,317
they can shut down all of the robots. By
the way, there's something to be learned

2353
02:13:00,400 --> 02:13:05,517
from that, which is put the AI brain in
each of the robots. Don't require a data

2354
02:13:05,600 --> 02:13:08,957
link that can be jammed or hacked
or broken or a central command post that

2355
02:13:09,040 --> 02:13:12,637
can be destroyed. Anyway, they didn't
know that on Naboo. Uh the Trade

2356
02:13:12,720 --> 02:13:15,757
Federation really screwed up and they
had it all going on in the cloud. But

2357
02:13:15,840 --> 02:13:19,357
like uh for some reason, nobody
remembers nobody remembers the Trade

2358
02:13:19,440 --> 02:13:21,917
Federation. They all
just talk about Skynet.

2359
02:13:22,000 --> 02:13:25,117
Wow. So you develop you develop the AI

2360
02:13:25,200 --> 02:13:29,037
mind, but you also develop and what
we could and what's cool is we like we

2361
02:13:29,120 --> 02:13:32,717
developed that AI mind, but we can
basically optimize it for different

2362
02:13:32,800 --> 02:13:36,477
things and train it how to do things
that normally they would have been done

2363
02:13:36,560 --> 02:13:40,157
by not just a person but an expert person.
For example, we use Lattice to

2364
02:13:40,240 --> 02:13:44,157
pilot our fighter jets. We are training
them how to do things based on data from

2365
02:13:44,240 --> 02:13:48,797
the world's best fighter pilots. And we
are using Lattis to power our underwater

2366
02:13:48,880 --> 02:13:52,077
submarines. We make a lot of underwater
submarines for the United States, but al

2367
02:13:52,160 --> 02:13:56,237
also really mostly for Australia right
now. And that submarine is able to

2368
02:13:56,320 --> 02:13:57,917
listen to things, differentiate things.

2369
02:13:58,000 --> 02:14:02,957
It can basically be an expert sonar
operator and an expert submarine pilot

2370
02:14:03,040 --> 02:14:07,597
and an expert energy management
specialist. And you can basically take

2371
02:14:07,680 --> 02:14:11,517
all of this expertise from hundreds
of different roles and jam it into one

2372
02:14:11,600 --> 02:14:14,957
brain. You can build one system like
Lattis that is the world's best fighter

2373
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:19,677
pilot, submarine pilot, sensor reader,
and small arms operator that the world's

2374
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:23,517
ever seen. And to to be able to cram
that all into one brain, it's a it's

2375
02:14:23,600 --> 02:14:27,917
it's a it's a powerful thing. >> Wow.
So, you're developing the mind,

2376
02:14:28,000 --> 02:14:31,917
you're also developing the aircraft, the
autonomous aircraft, the autonomous sub

2377
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:35,997
>> in some cases. So, one of the most
common misconceptions about Andal is

2378
02:14:36,080 --> 02:14:39,597
that Lattis is only a brain for the things
that we make. We do make a lot of

2379
02:14:39,680 --> 02:14:43,277
hardware like we make surveillance
towers, we make fighter jets, we make

2380
02:14:43,360 --> 02:14:47,037
submarines, we make loitering munitions
that are being used in Taiwan and

2381
02:14:47,120 --> 02:14:49,037
Ukraine.

2382
02:14:49,120 --> 02:14:51,277
But what are loitering munitions?

2383
02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:54,717
>> So basically think uh think like uh

2384
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:59,597
weapons that can go somewhere, observe
a target, and then choose when and how to

2385
02:14:59,680 --> 02:15:03,597
strike it. So not like not like
artillery is not loitering. a thing that

2386
02:15:03,680 --> 02:15:07,437
like a missile that flies to an area
then pops out wings and orbits overhead

2387
02:15:07,520 --> 02:15:10,637
for 10 minutes watching what they're
doing and figuring out what it's going

2388
02:15:10,720 --> 02:15:13,437
to do. Uh that that would
be a loitering munition.

2389
02:15:13,520 --> 02:15:16,237
>> Okay. >> Um and uh
we've actually had a lot of

2390
02:15:16,320 --> 02:15:20,077
success in Russ uh like between Russia
and Ukraine. Uh we're on the Ukrainian

2391
02:15:20,160 --> 02:15:24,957
side obviously. Um they've been using
our munitions to strike at things that

2392
02:15:25,040 --> 02:15:27,997
other weapons don't have enough range
or can't get through jamming bubbles to

2393
02:15:28,080 --> 02:15:31,117
attack. So the Russians, for example,
will be jamming communications. So other

2394
02:15:31,200 --> 02:15:33,037
drones can't get in to destroy these

2395
02:15:33,120 --> 02:15:34,797
targets. Our drones, because they're

2396
02:15:34,880 --> 02:15:38,477
piloted by AI, can fly in, orbit above,

2397
02:15:38,560 --> 02:15:42,157
let's say, you know, a jamming truck or
a surface air missile launcher, and then

2398
02:15:42,240 --> 02:15:44,637
figure out the right time to go
in and strike it and destroy it.

2399
02:15:44,720 --> 02:15:45,997
>> And the mind is in the aircraft.

2400
02:15:46,080 --> 02:15:50,637
>> And the mind is in the aircraft.
So >> but but um >> so you really

2401
02:15:50,720 --> 02:15:54,237
>> Oh, so sorry. But what what I
wanted to finish and say is the common

2402
02:15:54,320 --> 02:15:57,597
misconception is that because we built
these hardware products on top of Lattis

2403
02:15:57,680 --> 02:15:59,677
that Lattis is only for Android hardware

2404
02:15:59,760 --> 02:16:03,117
products. That is not the case. We have

2405
02:16:03,200 --> 02:16:06,077
we have integrated Lattice with over 100

2406
02:16:06,160 --> 02:16:08,477
existing DoD platforms. So we're taking

2407
02:16:08,560 --> 02:16:10,557
these brains and we're hooking them up

2408
02:16:10,640 --> 02:16:13,437
to systems that are already used by DoD.

2409
02:16:13,520 --> 02:16:17,677
So like vehicles they already have,
weapons they already have, sensors that

2410
02:16:17,760 --> 02:16:21,197
they already have. We're basically
taking everything, not just our weapons,

2411
02:16:21,280 --> 02:16:24,957
but everything that they have, and we're
trying to glue it all together into one

2412
02:16:25,040 --> 02:16:30,317
common hive mind so that all the people,
all the vehicles, all the robots have a

2413
02:16:30,400 --> 02:16:31,837
common shared view of the world.

2414
02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:34,157
Basically, in real time, seeing
everything that's going on on the

2415
02:16:34,240 --> 02:16:36,797
battlefield. So, you know where the good
guys are, you know where the bad guys

2416
02:16:36,880 --> 02:16:40,157
are. You're able to predict what's going
to happen in the near future so that you

2417
02:16:40,240 --> 02:16:44,077
can have everything kind of, you know,
skating to the puck as it were, rather

2418
02:16:44,160 --> 02:16:49,117
than reacting to what happened 10
minutes ago. And uh it's it's a really

2419
02:16:49,200 --> 02:16:52,557
powerful thing to do to take these
systems that used to be siloed and you

2420
02:16:52,640 --> 02:16:56,397
know just be their own little stovepipe
worlds and instead bring them into one

2421
02:16:56,480 --> 02:17:00,317
gigantic brain. >> Holy [__]

2422
02:17:00,400 --> 02:17:02,717
That's incredible. It's some good [__]

2423
02:17:02,800 --> 02:17:07,517
One of the things that I've started
working on lately is a project I I've

2424
02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:09,197
never wanted to build humanoid robots.

2425
02:17:09,280 --> 02:17:11,917
Not myself because there's so many
other companies that are doing a good job

2426
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:15,917
building humanoid robots. And I've just
been I I I've known for a few years now

2427
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:19,997
that they're on the edge of being real
and I've been waiting for that to happen

2428
02:17:20,080 --> 02:17:23,517
because humanoid robots
are not good enough to

2429
02:17:23,600 --> 02:17:25,757
let's say replace a Navy Seal. But they

2430
02:17:25,840 --> 02:17:28,877
are good enough to replace let's say an

2431
02:17:28,960 --> 02:17:31,357
elderly man. Like they can hobble around

2432
02:17:31,440 --> 02:17:33,997
and pull levers and push buttons with

2433
02:17:34,080 --> 02:17:38,477
about the same ability as a guy in his
90s as I'd say where most humanoid

2434
02:17:38,560 --> 02:17:40,877
robots are today.

2435
02:17:40,960 --> 02:17:43,677
It turns out that if you can put a brain

2436
02:17:43,760 --> 02:17:46,637
like Lattis into one of those robots,

2437
02:17:46,720 --> 02:17:52,077
you can basically use that as a way
to convert legacy weapon systems into AI

2438
02:17:52,160 --> 02:17:56,877
powered weapon systems. So imagine
that I have a an old Soviet era so surface

2439
02:17:56,960 --> 02:18:00,237
air missile launcher and normally you
need a bunch of guys to stand around it

2440
02:18:00,320 --> 02:18:03,037
watching a screen picking out targets.

2441
02:18:03,120 --> 02:18:05,277
They have to turn on the generator,
right? You know, you have to pull the

2442
02:18:05,360 --> 02:18:08,637
lever, you have to prime the pumps, you
got to put the choke and you know, start

2443
02:18:08,720 --> 02:18:12,877
the whole thing up. But what if you
could have a humanoid robot doing all of

2444
02:18:12,960 --> 02:18:15,917
that? All of a sudden, this thing that
used to have a bunch of humans that made

2445
02:18:16,000 --> 02:18:19,997
it a really really juicy target. Now you
could put it up on a hill and say, "Oh

2446
02:18:20,080 --> 02:18:23,757
yeah, it's just a bunch of robots."
And I've worked it into the greater hive

2447
02:18:23,840 --> 02:18:27,517
mind. Now the data that it's collecting
is being shared out to hundreds of other

2448
02:18:27,600 --> 02:18:31,997
weapons in real time. And so I'm pretty
excited about humanoid robots, not for

2449
02:18:32,080 --> 02:18:35,517
what they can do at the high end,
but more for just taking a lot of these

2450
02:18:35,600 --> 02:18:38,957
legacy systems. Like imagine you have
an old Humvey, right? How cool would it be

2451
02:18:39,040 --> 02:18:40,717
if instead of having to build a brand

2452
02:18:40,800 --> 02:18:46,077
new AI powered vehicle with like AI
actual rope, you have all these new cars

2453
02:18:46,160 --> 02:18:49,917
that Tesla's making that are capable
of steering themselves. What if instead of

2454
02:18:50,000 --> 02:18:52,957
buying all new AI powered cars for the

2455
02:18:53,040 --> 02:18:58,397
military, I can take a humanoid robot,
I can tell it to walk over to that Humvey,

2456
02:18:58,480 --> 02:19:01,677
get in and drive it around as an
autonomous vehicle. It doesn't make

2457
02:19:01,760 --> 02:19:05,277
sense for consumers. For consumers,
you should just, you know, uh just buy an

2458
02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:09,357
autonomous car. But where the military
already has literally trillions of

2459
02:19:09,440 --> 02:19:12,957
dollars in inventory. Like remember we
we have a we have a budget of hundreds

2460
02:19:13,040 --> 02:19:17,757
of billions of dollars a year. But the
military has trillions and trillions of

2461
02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:22,397
dollars of hardware that they've already
bought. I am not out to make them reby

2462
02:19:22,480 --> 02:19:25,917
all of that.
Some of it they'll need to reby.

2463
02:19:26,000 --> 02:19:29,517
But I want to make sure we're leveraging
all these tools we already have as well.

2464
02:19:29,600 --> 02:19:33,197
We need to bring AI to everything,
not just AI to new weapons.

2465
02:19:33,280 --> 02:19:37,757
>> Wow. you have completely
revolutionized warfare as we know it.

2466
02:19:37,840 --> 02:19:41,597
>> And by the way, you can see where
with their current business model like

2467
02:19:41,680 --> 02:19:44,797
warfare, but also think about like the
amount of money or the first page of our

2468
02:19:44,880 --> 02:19:49,677
first pitch deck said and will save
taxpayers hundreds of billions a year by

2469
02:19:49,760 --> 02:19:52,637
making tens of billions a year.
If you're in the business of making those

2470
02:19:52,720 --> 02:19:55,357
trillions of dollars of hardware, you're
probably pretty spooked by a company

2471
02:19:55,440 --> 02:19:58,157
like Anderil coming in and saying,
"Well, maybe you actually don't have to

2472
02:19:58,240 --> 02:20:01,037
buy reby a bunch of stuff. Maybe you can
actually keep using a lot of the systems

2473
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:04,397
you already have." Or worse, maybe you
can buy stuff from Andre that's a tenth

2474
02:20:04,480 --> 02:20:06,157
of the price of the stuff that you've

2475
02:20:06,240 --> 02:20:08,637
been buying from the other guys. It's we

2476
02:20:08,720 --> 02:20:11,917
are as taxpayers paying way too much for

2477
02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:16,157
everything. I mean, how like when
you were in, you probably had to pay

2478
02:20:16,240 --> 02:20:21,037
government prices for for for for for
for various things. Like you're familiar

2479
02:20:21,120 --> 02:20:23,597
with like companies will literally
charge the government a different price

2480
02:20:23,680 --> 02:20:26,317
than they charge civilians or and I
know technically they're not allowed to

2481
02:20:26,400 --> 02:20:28,637
charge government more, but they have
like the government version, right? And

2482
02:20:28,720 --> 02:20:31,757
it's like the special government paint
like, oh yeah, the special government

2483
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:35,517
paint version of this of this like optic
that's going on this rifle. It's it's

2484
02:20:35,600 --> 02:20:39,117
going to be $4,500. Meanwhile, as a
civilian, you can go buy something for

2485
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:43,837
$500 that is just as good. I mean, we
we have to stop doing that as a country.

2486
02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:46,797
>> Very familiar with that.
>> Eisenhower was right when he said that

2487
02:20:46,880 --> 02:20:50,077
in a very real sense, every rifle made,

2488
02:20:50,160 --> 02:20:53,277
every bomb dropped represents a child

2489
02:20:53,360 --> 02:20:57,757
deprived of an education,
a library never built, a hospital never

2490
02:20:57,840 --> 02:21:01,917
constructed. Like, I feel like a lot
of people forget that those two things are

2491
02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:04,877
tied together. It doesn't mean we need
to be hippies about it and pretend that

2492
02:21:04,960 --> 02:21:09,437
war is never going to happen, but we
need to be spending the right amount on

2493
02:21:09,520 --> 02:21:13,277
these things. We cannot we cannot treat
it as right now. It's almost like you

2494
02:21:13,360 --> 02:21:16,237
can't question it because you can't
question like if you question defense

2495
02:21:16,320 --> 02:21:19,997
spending you're questioning
the existence of the military. That like

2496
02:21:20,080 --> 02:21:23,997
that's that's just that's that's just
crazy to me. There's no other part of

2497
02:21:24,080 --> 02:21:26,957
our society where you can get away
with that. Where you like oh you can't no

2498
02:21:27,040 --> 02:21:30,717
that's not true. Education. You can't
question education either. You can't say

2499
02:21:30,800 --> 02:21:32,637
aren't we spending too much on education

2500
02:21:32,720 --> 02:21:35,917
for how bad it is and be like how dare

2501
02:21:36,000 --> 02:21:39,677
you attack our brave teachers who are
educating all of our children. It's

2502
02:21:39,760 --> 02:21:42,717
like, "No, no, I'm not attacking the
teachers." It's just, you know, it seems

2503
02:21:42,800 --> 02:21:47,277
like we spend a lot of money for kids
to get grades this bad. Like, the kids

2504
02:21:47,360 --> 02:21:52,477
can't read good or do other stuff good,
too. So, could the Navy Seal be

2505
02:21:52,560 --> 02:21:56,327
replaced? Oh, man.
This is an interesting one.

2506
02:21:56,410 --> 02:22:00,717
[snorts] I don't think so on a quite long

2507
02:22:00,800 --> 02:22:03,917
timeline for a few reasons. First of all,
it's a bit it's it's the nature of

2508
02:22:04,000 --> 02:22:07,277
the job. Like, I'll tell you,
here's someone who will be replaced. that

2509
02:22:07,360 --> 02:22:12,157
hilltop surfaceto-air missile operator,
right? Like he's that is a crazy

2510
02:22:12,240 --> 02:22:16,157
dangerous job. You're the first thing
that everyone wants to take out before

2511
02:22:16,240 --> 02:22:17,597
they can get through to everything else.

2512
02:22:17,680 --> 02:22:21,997
Like you're going to die. We we have
to get rid of that guy. But then you look

2513
02:22:22,080 --> 02:22:25,917
at what like a lot of Navy Seals do and
what like like or like look look at what

2514
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:29,837
Green Berets do.
It's so much about interacting

2515
02:22:29,920 --> 02:22:32,877
extremely closely with people, around

2516
02:22:32,960 --> 02:22:37,517
people, among people in infrastructure
that was designed for people. I think

2517
02:22:37,600 --> 02:22:41,277
it's going to be really really hard
to make robots that do that set of things.

2518
02:22:41,360 --> 02:22:45,597
It's it's it's remember I said robots can
do the jobs that a 90-year-old man can do.

2519
02:22:45,680 --> 02:22:48,557
>> Okay, they're going to eventually do
the job that a 70-year-old man can do and

2520
02:22:48,640 --> 02:22:51,757
then eventually they'll be able to do
what like a average in shape 50-year-old

2521
02:22:51,840 --> 02:22:54,557
man can do. to build humanoid robots

2522
02:22:54,640 --> 02:22:57,757
that can do what a Navy Seal in the

2523
02:22:57,840 --> 02:23:00,317
prime of his life, you know, probably

2524
02:23:00,400 --> 02:23:03,277
secretly uh secretly roided out. Like

2525
02:23:03,360 --> 02:23:06,077
that's that's a really high bar for a

2526
02:23:06,160 --> 02:23:10,717
robot to hit, especially when it comes
to his ability to break the rules or

2527
02:23:10,800 --> 02:23:13,837
make a decision that wasn't programmed
or decide that he's going to do

2528
02:23:13,920 --> 02:23:18,317
something that a robot's just never
going to do. It's it's my my intuition

2529
02:23:18,400 --> 02:23:21,997
here is like that's going to be the last
job to be figured out. Um, it's it's a

2530
02:23:22,080 --> 02:23:25,437
little bit like it's not a perfect
example, but it's like the the you know,

2531
02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:29,677
is AI going to replace like the jobs
of our politicians. It's like, you know,

2532
02:23:29,760 --> 02:23:33,597
that's probably like the last thing
to go like in in a in in a in a very real

2533
02:23:33,680 --> 02:23:37,917
sense. There's certain parts of our
society that are almost like envoys of

2534
02:23:38,000 --> 02:23:42,237
America. They represent what we're doing.
And I I I think that we're not

2535
02:23:42,320 --> 02:23:43,597
going to outsource that to robots anymore.

2536
02:23:43,680 --> 02:23:47,837
>> So So we're a long ways out
from replacing a a tier one assaulter.

2537
02:23:47,920 --> 02:23:50,397
>> I think we're a long
way out. And that's and

2538
02:23:50,480 --> 02:23:53,357
>> what is a long way out?

2539
02:23:53,440 --> 02:23:56,477
>> 30 40 50 years minimum. I there's some

2540
02:23:56,560 --> 02:24:00,797
things that move fast and others that
that don't. But I because here's here's

2541
02:24:00,880 --> 02:24:02,797
the other thing you have to remember
and I think we talked about this a little

2542
02:24:02,880 --> 02:24:04,877
bit earlier, but you're also able to

2543
02:24:04,960 --> 02:24:07,757
augment people. So the the the the right

2544
02:24:07,840 --> 02:24:10,957
comparison is not Navy Seal of today

2545
02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:13,677
versus robot 10 years from now. It's

2546
02:24:13,760 --> 02:24:18,077
what could a Navy Seal look like in 10
years in terms of their uh you know

2547
02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:22,957
biological modifications or conditioning
in terms of their mental modifications

2548
02:24:23,040 --> 02:24:26,797
or conditioning things like exoskeletons,
things like more advanced

2549
02:24:26,880 --> 02:24:30,717
mobility, things like more advanced
small arms. All of those are going to

2550
02:24:30,800 --> 02:24:35,197
make the Navy Seal a a moving target
as well. So the robots would have to get

2551
02:24:35,280 --> 02:24:37,277
not just as good as a seal of today.

2552
02:24:37,360 --> 02:24:40,157
They're going to have to be as good
of a seal of that era. And I think we're

2553
02:24:40,240 --> 02:24:43,037
going to keep investing in I think we're
going to keep investing in the guys on

2554
02:24:43,120 --> 02:24:45,197
the ground. Hopefully a lot
more than we have been. Like

2555
02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:47,517
>> you're involved
with exoskeletons, correct?

2556
02:24:47,600 --> 02:24:52,877
>> Well, we I I don't know how invol I
I just ran a sub 8 minute mile for the

2557
02:24:52,960 --> 02:24:56,557
first time in my life. And I'm usually
I'm usually the guy who's wheezing to do

2558
02:24:56,640 --> 02:24:59,437
a sub 10-minute mile. Uh and last night

2559
02:24:59,520 --> 02:25:03,677
I ran a sub8 mile in an exoskeleton that

2560
02:25:03,760 --> 02:25:06,957
uh ran I basically it ran out of thermal

2561
02:25:07,040 --> 02:25:11,037
capacity 2/ird of the way through the run.
So, uh, the last third of the run,

2562
02:25:11,120 --> 02:25:14,637
I was actually going slower than I
normally would run, but the first two/3s

2563
02:25:14,720 --> 02:25:18,717
were so fast I still actually when I
go home tonight, I'm going to be making

2564
02:25:18,800 --> 02:25:23,437
some mods to the cooling
system uh, that the company

2565
02:25:23,520 --> 02:25:26,077
I don't want to badmouth the company.
I think that they made a mistake on the

2566
02:25:26,160 --> 02:25:29,757
cooling system. Um, and so I'm going
to be doing some mods tonight that I

2567
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:32,477
already have the parts sitting in the
garage for and I'm going to run I think

2568
02:25:32,560 --> 02:25:35,917
I'm going to run a sub seven mile anyway.
I'm I'm I'm I'm like an outof

2569
02:25:36,000 --> 02:25:39,597
shape fatty and I'm if I'm able to just
like put on a exoskeleton and run a

2570
02:25:39,680 --> 02:25:43,277
seven-minute mile, imagine what that
could do on a Navy Seal. Um the same

2571
02:25:43,360 --> 02:25:44,797
thing for augmenting vision. You know,

2572
02:25:44,880 --> 02:25:47,677
right now the night vision capabilities

2573
02:25:47,760 --> 02:25:50,717
that we give our warf fighters are not

2574
02:25:50,800 --> 02:25:54,797
that far removed from what we had
in the '90s, right? It's still Gen 3 night

2575
02:25:54,880 --> 02:25:58,237
vision. Sure, it's white phosphor
instead of green, and it's a little

2576
02:25:58,320 --> 02:26:00,077
higher res and a little higher game, but

2577
02:26:00,160 --> 02:26:02,397
it it generationally it's the it's the

2578
02:26:02,480 --> 02:26:05,517
same. Imagine what happens when you can

2579
02:26:05,600 --> 02:26:07,677
take that Navy Seal and you can put on a

2580
02:26:07,760 --> 02:26:10,637
visor that gives him full peripheral

2581
02:26:10,720 --> 02:26:15,517
vision at night in the thermal spectrum,
the visible spectrum, the ultraviolet

2582
02:26:15,600 --> 02:26:17,437
spectrum, the hyperspectral spectrum.

2583
02:26:17,520 --> 02:26:19,277
He's able to identify individual

2584
02:26:19,360 --> 02:26:22,557
materials, components, vehicles,

2585
02:26:22,640 --> 02:26:25,037
see all of his buddies, see all of the

2586
02:26:25,120 --> 02:26:27,437
bad guys, and have information

2587
02:26:27,520 --> 02:26:32,077
seamlessly shared between him and every
other weapon and robot and vehicle on

2588
02:26:32,160 --> 02:26:35,917
the battlefield. like that is where
the Navy Seal is going to be in just a few

2589
02:26:36,000 --> 02:26:40,317
years. I think it's going to be hard
for robots to compete with with that guy.

2590
02:26:40,400 --> 02:26:42,397
>> So, how does how does the exoskeleton

2591
02:26:42,480 --> 02:26:44,797
work? So, different exoskeletons work in

2592
02:26:44,880 --> 02:26:47,997
different ways. Um, this particular one

2593
02:26:48,080 --> 02:26:51,437
basically is sensing your motion uh

2594
02:26:51,520 --> 02:26:56,077
based on your actual motion and then
it tries to predict. It actually has an

2595
02:26:56,160 --> 02:26:59,917
onboard AI algorithm that is trying
to predict what you're doing and then it

2596
02:27:00,000 --> 02:27:04,317
applies force that matches like
you you use power steering, right?

2597
02:27:04,400 --> 02:27:06,717
>> You make a motion, it feels that torque

2598
02:27:06,800 --> 02:27:11,357
and then it adds more power to it
to zero it out. It's actually not that

2599
02:27:11,440 --> 02:27:14,397
different than that. Imagine if you had
power steering, but instead of just for

2600
02:27:14,480 --> 02:27:18,637
turning a wheel and grinding your tires,
imagine it was every joint on your body.

2601
02:27:18,720 --> 02:27:22,477
So you say, "Okay, I'm lifting.
I'm doing this." And it says, "Oh, he's

2602
02:27:22,560 --> 02:27:26,797
trying to do that. I'm going to add
more power in. There's more advanced

2603
02:27:26,880 --> 02:27:30,957
techniques that start to actually read
your muscles before they even move.

2604
02:27:31,040 --> 02:27:34,957
Because when you tell your muscles to
move, it takes time for them to respond.

2605
02:27:35,040 --> 02:27:37,997
That's going to be the future of
exoskeletons. It's going to be measuring

2606
02:27:38,080 --> 02:27:42,077
your body so that instead of there being
a delay where I move, it feels it, and

2607
02:27:42,160 --> 02:27:46,157
then it helps me, it's going to be
seamlessly integrated with you. Maybe

2608
02:27:46,240 --> 02:27:49,677
even starting to move your arm before
your natural muscles are doing it.

2609
02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:52,637
>> Wow. That's what like I'm and like then

2610
02:27:52,720 --> 02:27:55,037
the crazy thing is eventually someday

2611
02:27:55,120 --> 02:27:56,957
and I think this is way out just for a

2612
02:27:57,040 --> 02:28:02,237
variety of basically invasive surgical
reasons. Eventually you'll be able to

2613
02:28:02,320 --> 02:28:05,837
read those signals right from the brain
directly. So imag like right now you

2614
02:28:05,920 --> 02:28:08,957
have a lot of latency in your in your
motion that you you don't perceive it.

2615
02:28:09,040 --> 02:28:12,557
You think there's no latency in your body.
There's actually a couple hundred

2616
02:28:12,640 --> 02:28:16,397
milliseconds of latency in your
movements that your brain just ignores

2617
02:28:16,480 --> 02:28:20,557
and tells you is fine. Imagine a world
where you're wearing an exoskeleton

2618
02:28:20,640 --> 02:28:22,797
where the moment your brain is telling

2619
02:28:22,880 --> 02:28:25,517
your arm to move, the exoskeleton starts

2620
02:28:25,600 --> 02:28:27,757
moving your arm. You could potentially

2621
02:28:27,840 --> 02:28:30,237
make someone who's literally 10 times

2622
02:28:30,320 --> 02:28:34,797
faster at moving or reacting. And dude,
that again, you see where I'm getting?

2623
02:28:34,880 --> 02:28:36,477
Like this is that that's going to be the

2624
02:28:36,560 --> 02:28:38,877
Navy Seal of the future. And that guy is

2625
02:28:38,960 --> 02:28:42,237
going to be a beast. Holy [__] I've

2626
02:28:42,320 --> 02:28:43,917
actually got a a very small scale

2627
02:28:44,000 --> 02:28:49,277
version of this.
I built a system that uh measures when

2628
02:28:49,360 --> 02:28:52,877
you are trying >> security guys
running around with this stuff.

2629
02:28:52,960 --> 02:28:56,157
>> You are we we have a great security
team but I probably shouldn't I probably

2630
02:28:56,240 --> 02:28:57,677
shouldn't talk about methods and tactics

2631
02:28:57,760 --> 02:29:01,757
on them. Um I I built a device many

2632
02:29:01,840 --> 02:29:05,277
years ago and I've I've I've screwed
around with it a lot of times. It

2633
02:29:05,360 --> 02:29:09,037
basically is a small sensor that you can
mount that is able to tell when you are

2634
02:29:09,120 --> 02:29:13,677
flexing muscles on your face.
And I hooked that up to another electrical

2635
02:29:13,760 --> 02:29:17,837
actuator. you ever use like a 10ens unit
for like therapy area or so it's I hook

2636
02:29:17,920 --> 02:29:21,757
up something that's a lot like a 10ens
unit but it's just rigged a little

2637
02:29:21,840 --> 02:29:25,037
differently so that instead of making
your muscles vibrate it is made to just

2638
02:29:25,120 --> 02:29:28,157
trigger individual muscle groups you
know like it could just basically make

2639
02:29:28,240 --> 02:29:31,917
you you know pull this finger or pull
that finger and I made it so that

2640
02:29:32,000 --> 02:29:34,077
whenever I

2641
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:36,717
even barely start to flex a muscle up

2642
02:29:36,800 --> 02:29:39,277
here in my face it sends a signal

2643
02:29:39,360 --> 02:29:42,077
wirelessly to a patch I have on my arm

2644
02:29:42,160 --> 02:29:45,837
that fully fires this tendon and makes

2645
02:29:45,920 --> 02:29:48,237
me uh makes me pull my trigger finger.

2646
02:29:48,320 --> 02:29:52,317
Now, the thing is, if I do this normally,
like if I normally am telling

2647
02:29:52,400 --> 02:29:55,837
my my my trigger finger to go, that
signal has to go from my brain down my

2648
02:29:55,920 --> 02:29:59,597
spinal cord out through all these
nervous cords out into my arm, that

2649
02:29:59,680 --> 02:30:02,557
actually takes a really really long time.
It's it's your it's your there's

2650
02:30:02,640 --> 02:30:05,677
something called nervous transit
velocity or nervous conduction velocity.

2651
02:30:05,760 --> 02:30:07,997
It's how fast you can send signals down

2652
02:30:08,080 --> 02:30:10,397
your peripheral nervous system. By

2653
02:30:10,480 --> 02:30:12,877
building a bypass for it, I can make it

2654
02:30:12,960 --> 02:30:15,277
where I can actually, if I want to pull

2655
02:30:15,360 --> 02:30:17,837
the trigger on my gun, I can flex that

2656
02:30:17,920 --> 02:30:22,477
muscle on my head, which is much closer
to my brain, therefore a much much

2657
02:30:22,560 --> 02:30:26,637
shorter pathway. And I can actually
shave a ton of latency off the delay

2658
02:30:26,720 --> 02:30:29,917
between when I see something, when I
pull my trigger. All of a sudden, I've

2659
02:30:30,000 --> 02:30:33,197
now reduced effectively because you
you're famil with like lock time in a

2660
02:30:33,280 --> 02:30:36,637
firearm. It's like lock time is the time
between when you pull a trigger and when

2661
02:30:36,720 --> 02:30:39,597
the round is actually going. and
different, you know, if you if you have

2662
02:30:39,680 --> 02:30:42,957
like a really heavy hammer, you can
have a higher lock time. And so if you're

2663
02:30:43,040 --> 02:30:47,197
looking at a target, you're pulling that
trigger, you have some inaccuracy that

2664
02:30:47,280 --> 02:30:50,397
is caused purely by the lock time, when
you told it to fire and when it actually

2665
02:30:50,480 --> 02:30:53,997
fires. And you can learn it out to some
degree by kind of predicting all this

2666
02:30:54,080 --> 02:30:56,957
together. I can not only be faster, I

2667
02:30:57,040 --> 02:31:01,277
can even be more accurate by just
removing that latency. Lock time, we

2668
02:31:01,360 --> 02:31:05,917
pretend it's actually just a gun. Your
real lock time is signal from your brain

2669
02:31:06,000 --> 02:31:09,677
to when you pull the trigger to when
the trigger reacts. And there's a lot of

2670
02:31:09,760 --> 02:31:12,957
things we can do. So when I talked about
biological modifications and mechanical

2671
02:31:13,040 --> 02:31:15,997
modifications, there's things that we're
going to be able to do that are going to

2672
02:31:16,080 --> 02:31:20,877
eventually have your brain, you know,
telling you to fire some weapon and the

2673
02:31:20,960 --> 02:31:25,037
weapon will be fired and out the barrel
and hitting the target before you before

2674
02:31:25,120 --> 02:31:28,317
before you would have a traditional guy
would have been able to even pull the

2675
02:31:28,400 --> 02:31:31,117
trigger. So it's it's an exciting future.

2676
02:31:31,200 --> 02:31:33,437
>> Wow.

2677
02:31:33,520 --> 02:31:36,317
I'm totally mind-b blown. Right. That's

2678
02:31:36,400 --> 02:31:40,637
that's Holy [__] It's it's it's

2679
02:31:40,720 --> 02:31:44,797
>> How long do you think it'll be before
we see exoskeletons on the battlefield?

2680
02:31:44,880 --> 02:31:46,957
>> So, I I I do have to admit that I have

2681
02:31:47,040 --> 02:31:49,757
said in the past that exoskeletons the

2682
02:31:49,840 --> 02:31:54,317
time has probably come and gone. I like
I I've I've this is a public prediction

2683
02:31:54,400 --> 02:31:58,077
that I've made.
My my belief was that exoskeletons

2684
02:31:58,160 --> 02:32:00,717
were probably something that made sense

2685
02:32:00,800 --> 02:32:02,797
in the 80s and the '90s if we would have

2686
02:32:02,880 --> 02:32:05,437
invested in them. But that at this point

2687
02:32:05,520 --> 02:32:09,997
we probably should just move to humanoid
robotics and just have them remotely

2688
02:32:10,080 --> 02:32:13,437
controlled by people. Like by I will say
by the way we're going to have remotely

2689
02:32:13,520 --> 02:32:15,357
controlled Navy Seal robots long before

2690
02:32:15,440 --> 02:32:18,237
you have you know the AI controlled

2691
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:21,197
robot. Uh but I've recently seen some

2692
02:32:21,280 --> 02:32:23,037
technology that has me questioning that.

2693
02:32:23,120 --> 02:32:25,277
Uh, I I I think that we're going to

2694
02:32:25,360 --> 02:32:28,397
start seeing this tech in kind of tier

2695
02:32:28,480 --> 02:32:32,157
one groups like just about now, like

2696
02:32:32,240 --> 02:32:36,477
less than a year would be my would be
my would be my estimation. Uh, when when

2697
02:32:36,560 --> 02:32:38,157
does it get out? >> Controlled robot.

2698
02:32:38,240 --> 02:32:40,157
>> Uh, sorry, no, exoskeletons.

2699
02:32:40,240 --> 02:32:43,917
Exoskeletons. Now, they're going to be
a little less cool than people expect.

2700
02:32:44,000 --> 02:32:48,317
It's not going to be like an Iron Man
suit. It's more like a suit that maybe

2701
02:32:48,400 --> 02:32:52,717
helps one or two of your joints. Like
that helps you run better, maybe to run

2702
02:32:52,800 --> 02:32:57,197
faster or maybe just to use less uh so
that you can run longer. Like I mean,

2703
02:32:57,280 --> 02:32:59,677
I'm sure you were in situations where
would you have liked it to have been

2704
02:32:59,760 --> 02:33:03,117
able to like go take a jog carrying
a whole bunch of stuff to a place a

2705
02:33:03,200 --> 02:33:06,637
kilometer away and then get
there and not be tired. Like

2706
02:33:06,720 --> 02:33:08,557
>> that'd be a huge deal.
I think those are

2707
02:33:08,640 --> 02:33:11,357
going to be the types of exoskeletons we
see. It's not going to be like I put on

2708
02:33:11,440 --> 02:33:15,757
my Iron Man suit and I'm carrying 300
lb of vibranium armor and the bullets are

2709
02:33:15,840 --> 02:33:19,357
blasting off me. I think it's going
to be more like, hey, you can like you can

2710
02:33:19,440 --> 02:33:23,757
run up a whole flight of stairs to the
top of a 10story building because all

2711
02:33:23,840 --> 02:33:27,037
the power's cut and there's no elevators
and you're going to step out on the on

2712
02:33:27,120 --> 02:33:29,997
that last landing. You'll be like,
"Oh yeah, that was that was that was a

2713
02:33:30,080 --> 02:33:32,637
little that was a little tough."
As opposed to feeling like you want to

2714
02:33:32,720 --> 02:33:36,077
collapse. And that's a huge deal.

2715
02:33:36,160 --> 02:33:39,197
Eventually, I do think we will see
the thing that everybody wants, which is,

2716
02:33:39,280 --> 02:33:42,797
you know, you put you put on the suit
and you're Superman and you punch

2717
02:33:42,880 --> 02:33:47,757
through walls and the bullets are coming
at you and and nothing happens. I It's

2718
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:51,037
going to It's going to be a decade plus
before that happens. One of the problems

2719
02:33:51,120 --> 02:33:55,677
being any suit that can do that can also
kill you. Just think about it this way.

2720
02:33:55,760 --> 02:33:57,757
Like a suit that basically helps out

2721
02:33:57,840 --> 02:34:02,797
your legs, it's only as powerful as your
legs are on average, you know, climbing

2722
02:34:02,880 --> 02:34:06,637
up some stairs. So, like if it
malfunctions, like you might hurt

2723
02:34:06,720 --> 02:34:10,637
yourself, but you'll be okay. If you are
building a suit that is capable of, you

2724
02:34:10,720 --> 02:34:13,837
know, doing Iron Man style, like I'm
going to punch through this building and

2725
02:34:13,920 --> 02:34:17,597
walk through the brick wall opening,
that's a suit where if it malfunctions,

2726
02:34:17,680 --> 02:34:23,197
it could rip your arms out of their
joints. And you really need to be you

2727
02:34:23,280 --> 02:34:25,677
really need to be careful when you're
building something like that. It's not

2728
02:34:25,760 --> 02:34:29,997
the type of thing that you build over
a weekend. I mentioned earlier like I'm

2729
02:34:30,080 --> 02:34:34,717
modifying this exoskeleton tonight so
that I can run faster. Uh that's not the

2730
02:34:34,800 --> 02:34:38,077
type of thing you do with an exoskeleton
that is able to rip your limbs off. You

2731
02:34:38,160 --> 02:34:41,517
know, it's it is a it is a very
different development process. So it's

2732
02:34:41,600 --> 02:34:43,357
not it's more like a medical device and

2733
02:34:43,440 --> 02:34:46,637
less like a little little contradiction.

2734
02:34:46,720 --> 02:34:50,797
Maybe you had mentioned first we were
saying no, we're not going to see remote

2735
02:34:50,880 --> 02:34:53,197
controlled or robots.

2736
02:34:53,280 --> 02:34:56,957
>> Yep. Now you're saying we might see

2737
02:34:57,040 --> 02:35:01,037
before the exoskeleton.
>> I guess uh before you had asked uh like

2738
02:35:01,120 --> 02:35:05,677
you had asked about um you asked about
like AI Navy Seals or robot Navy Seals.

2739
02:35:05,760 --> 02:35:09,997
I have to I I missed in my mind there
is going to be an intermediary step which

2740
02:35:10,080 --> 02:35:14,957
is like you're not you'll have robot
bodies that are piloted by people. So

2741
02:35:15,040 --> 02:35:19,117
they're still using you know human
judgment just and like that's going to

2742
02:35:19,200 --> 02:35:22,877
happen a lot sooner than you know
the the AI robot Navy Seal that is. How do

2743
02:35:22,960 --> 02:35:25,277
you see that working?
>> Um, >> is it going to be

2744
02:35:25,360 --> 02:35:26,717
>> you're going to put on a VR headset.

2745
02:35:26,800 --> 02:35:27,997
You're going to put on a VR headset.

2746
02:35:28,080 --> 02:35:30,957
You're going to strap on a suit that does
full motion capture of your entire

2747
02:35:31,040 --> 02:35:35,117
body and you will be like, it's probably
going to handle the leg logo motion

2748
02:35:35,200 --> 02:35:38,557
because that's something you can't
really remotely do very well. It's going

2749
02:35:38,640 --> 02:35:42,237
to have to use local sensors to scan
the terrain and do a better job than you'd

2750
02:35:42,320 --> 02:35:46,797
be able to see anyway. So imagine like
downward shooting LARs, building a 3D

2751
02:35:46,880 --> 02:35:50,157
model of all the terrain that's within
10 ft of you, so you know what to step

2752
02:35:50,240 --> 02:35:55,597
over, what you could trip on, you know
what you need to avoid. Um, and then

2753
02:35:55,680 --> 02:35:58,557
everything on the top, you've got
a guy who's just teleoperating the whole

2754
02:35:58,640 --> 02:36:02,397
thing. And you know, >> Oh [__]
So this will be So they'll be

2755
02:36:02,480 --> 02:36:05,597
controlling these from a
totally separate location.

2756
02:36:05,680 --> 02:36:07,757
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm like, and so

2757
02:36:07,840 --> 02:36:10,717
casualties be essentially zero human

2758
02:36:10,800 --> 02:36:14,797
casualties if it's a if I will admit
like there are there are problems with

2759
02:36:14,880 --> 02:36:18,877
this. Like the reason you want to move
to an AI brain eventually is largely

2760
02:36:18,960 --> 02:36:23,037
because of communications links problems.
Like if I if I have a command

2761
02:36:23,120 --> 02:36:26,877
center that has to talk to a robot, that
means that all they have to do to make

2762
02:36:26,960 --> 02:36:31,277
this robot stop working is jam that link.
If they jam the link, the robot is

2763
02:36:31,360 --> 02:36:33,597
like all of those battle droids in Star

2764
02:36:33,680 --> 02:36:35,437
Wars Episode 1. They just fall over and

2765
02:36:35,520 --> 02:36:39,597
they're useless. Um, so but for missions

2766
02:36:39,680 --> 02:36:43,037
where that's okay. Maybe like maybe we
have links that can't be jammed by that

2767
02:36:43,120 --> 02:36:47,997
enemy. Maybe it's short range enough
that we can just power through. Uh,

2768
02:36:48,080 --> 02:36:51,037
yeah, that's that that's going to be
a thing soon. Actually, have you seen the

2769
02:36:51,120 --> 02:36:53,997
you've seen the Tesla humanoid
robot demos, right, with Optimus?

2770
02:36:54,080 --> 02:36:57,117
>> Yeah. >> So,
most of those demos I I I hate to

2771
02:36:57,200 --> 02:37:00,557
I'm not trying to I'm not trying to piss
off Elon. Sorry, Elon. I'm going to I'm

2772
02:37:00,640 --> 02:37:03,917
going to let people know. All [snorts]
those demos with the robots pouring

2773
02:37:04,000 --> 02:37:06,397
drinks for people and being robot
bartenders, those are all actually

2774
02:37:06,480 --> 02:37:09,597
teleoperated. It's not an AI brain
that's doing all of that. There's a

2775
02:37:09,680 --> 02:37:12,877
there's a guy who's doing what I just
described, wearing a VR headset, wearing

2776
02:37:12,960 --> 02:37:15,837
a motion capture suit, and he's pouring

2777
02:37:15,920 --> 02:37:20,797
drinks for people, walking around, doing
all kinds of stuff. And uh yeah, that

2778
02:37:20,880 --> 02:37:23,357
that that is definitely going to be
a thing that our military is doing a lot

2779
02:37:23,440 --> 02:37:24,957
of in just the next few years.

2780
02:37:25,040 --> 02:37:28,077
>> Holy [__] >> If not
at the level of a Navy Seal.

2781
02:37:28,160 --> 02:37:30,397
>> Wow. >> If not the level
Navy Seal. But like uh

2782
02:37:30,480 --> 02:37:34,237
if you if you need to serve drinks,
you know, like that's that that's that's

2783
02:37:34,320 --> 02:37:37,837
going to be happening soon. >> Wow.

2784
02:37:37,920 --> 02:37:41,837
Damn, dude. Let's talk about >> I
got to throw out one more thing, which

2785
02:37:41,920 --> 02:37:44,317
is uh I I write a little bit of

2786
02:37:44,400 --> 02:37:46,717
speculative sci-fi from time to time.

2787
02:37:46,800 --> 02:37:49,597
Um, I don't publish it just for my own

2788
02:37:49,680 --> 02:37:52,717
my own notekeeping and entertainment,

2789
02:37:52,800 --> 02:37:56,397
but I did write a bit a bit uh years and

2790
02:37:56,480 --> 02:37:59,917
years ago about um a tier one operator

2791
02:38:00,000 --> 02:38:02,877
who basically uses robotics to continue

2792
02:38:02,960 --> 02:38:05,517
operating even into his 70s and 80s.

2793
02:38:05,600 --> 02:38:09,757
Yeah. Being like he's got a broken body,
but you know, he's still he's still the

2794
02:38:09,840 --> 02:38:13,517
sharpest the sharpest tool in the shed
when it comes to his his instincts and

2795
02:38:13,600 --> 02:38:17,917
his knowledge and his ability to get
stuff done. And it's [snorts] really

2796
02:38:18,000 --> 02:38:21,197
interesting to imagine how that might
actually work in the future. Cuz if

2797
02:38:21,280 --> 02:38:24,717
you've got a guy who's really good
at remote controlling robots, it doesn't

2798
02:38:24,800 --> 02:38:28,557
really matter if he gets,
you know, if he's getting older and

2799
02:38:28,640 --> 02:38:33,037
>> older and uh older and breaking down,
at least not as much. So, as long as your

2800
02:38:33,120 --> 02:38:38,440
brain's there, I think you I
think people will still be useful,

2801
02:38:39,440 --> 02:38:42,717
>> man. This is this is >>
it's going to be a wild future.

2802
02:38:42,800 --> 02:38:47,277
>> Yeah. No [laughter]
[__] [clears throat] Um,

2803
02:38:47,360 --> 02:38:49,357
wow. Let's talk about the missiles.

2804
02:38:49,440 --> 02:38:51,437
Let's talk about it. What how does how

2805
02:38:51,520 --> 02:38:53,517
do those work? So the so the way I

2806
02:38:53,600 --> 02:39:00,040
understand it, you can
you're basically taking away

2807
02:39:01,200 --> 02:39:04,157
missiles that don't need
to expend, come back and land.

2808
02:39:04,240 --> 02:39:05,917
>> So there's a few things that we're
doing. You're probably thinking of

2809
02:39:06,000 --> 02:39:10,077
Roadrunner, which is a reusable missile
of sorts, vertical takeoff and landing.

2810
02:39:10,160 --> 02:39:13,677
It can go out, attack targets, and come
back. And we have some versions that are

2811
02:39:13,760 --> 02:39:17,357
suicide attack aircraft. We have other
like where they're carrying a bomb. We

2812
02:39:17,440 --> 02:39:20,157
have others where they have payloads
where they can go out, do a mission, and

2813
02:39:20,240 --> 02:39:22,637
then come back and be re be reused again.

2814
02:39:22,720 --> 02:39:25,997
>> Um, we're doing uh we're doing a lot of

2815
02:39:26,080 --> 02:39:31,357
interesting stuff on that front,
I think, because in the past a lot of like

2816
02:39:31,440 --> 02:39:33,837
we're we're also building longrange
cruise missiles. We have a line of

2817
02:39:33,920 --> 02:39:37,837
missiles called Barracuda. We have
a Barracuda 100, 250, and 500, different

2818
02:39:37,920 --> 02:39:41,757
ranges, different payloads. And one
of the cool things you can do with AI

2819
02:39:41,840 --> 02:39:46,477
powered missiles is send them
into an area and then have

2820
02:39:46,560 --> 02:39:49,277
them do precision targeting
collaborating with each other. Even if

2821
02:39:49,360 --> 02:39:52,557
you don't have a person there who's
let's say steering a coded laser target

2822
02:39:52,640 --> 02:39:55,597
designator. Like in the past you would
have needed somebody to say like get get

2823
02:39:55,680 --> 02:39:58,637
out there shine a laser at the thing
you wanted to go after and then it goes

2824
02:39:58,720 --> 02:40:01,597
after that laser dot. Well, what if
instead you can have a missile show up

2825
02:40:01,680 --> 02:40:06,397
somewhere and say oh that's a Lee Yang
destroyer. I know that the engine room

2826
02:40:06,480 --> 02:40:09,517
is right there. And I know that the
thinnest part of the deck is right

2827
02:40:09,600 --> 02:40:13,437
there. If I approach at this angle
and this speed from this direction, I can

2828
02:40:13,520 --> 02:40:16,477
punch through the engine room
and destroy engine one. And if that's

2829
02:40:16,560 --> 02:40:19,517
successful, another one's going to come
in behind me from the other side and

2830
02:40:19,600 --> 02:40:23,277
destroy engine two. If I miss or I don't
make it through, I'm going to have it

2831
02:40:23,360 --> 02:40:27,357
instead go for engine one. And then the
next one's going to go. That's the type

2832
02:40:27,440 --> 02:40:31,757
of intelligent targeting that has been
the stuff of science fiction until now.

2833
02:40:31,840 --> 02:40:35,837
And now we just do it. uh like we're
doing this type of stuff in Russia right

2834
02:40:35,920 --> 02:40:39,357
now where we're hitting targets where
they have jammed communications link

2835
02:40:39,440 --> 02:40:43,197
that would make it impossible to remote
control systems and where it's at ranges

2836
02:40:43,280 --> 02:40:47,357
where you can't get a person into these
areas like you can't get a J-TAC forward

2837
02:40:47,440 --> 02:40:50,637
to las these Russian targets. They they
would they'd mow you down with machine

2838
02:40:50,720 --> 02:40:53,757
guns or landmines before
you get even close.

2839
02:40:53,840 --> 02:40:56,557
The other side of what we're doing
with missiles and it's it's it's less

2840
02:40:56,640 --> 02:41:00,397
interesting than the AI stuff,
I know, but it's just manufacturing.

2841
02:41:00,480 --> 02:41:02,317
We are making our missiles and our

2842
02:41:02,400 --> 02:41:05,997
submarines and really everything we do

2843
02:41:06,080 --> 02:41:08,717
in a much more reasonable way. So like

2844
02:41:08,800 --> 02:41:13,117
the way we make our submarines looks
a lot like you make uh a car. Like we're

2845
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:17,597
we're basically using we're using
processes, robots, assembly lines that

2846
02:41:17,680 --> 02:41:21,117
you could use to build a Tesla. you
can use it to build our submarine versus

2847
02:41:21,200 --> 02:41:25,757
more traditional techniques that require
huge teams of specialized human welders

2848
02:41:25,840 --> 02:41:29,277
and huge pieces of infrastructure that
that allow you to really really slowly

2849
02:41:29,360 --> 02:41:33,517
build pressure vessels. Um, same thing
with our missiles. Our missiles have 90%

2850
02:41:33,600 --> 02:41:37,997
fewer parts than our competition. We've
very aggressively designed them to have

2851
02:41:38,080 --> 02:41:42,157
very few parts to have those parts
consolidated as much as possible into

2852
02:41:42,240 --> 02:41:44,877
individual pressings or panels that like

2853
02:41:44,960 --> 02:41:49,757
we might have one part that is 10 times
as big as the parts that you would have

2854
02:41:49,840 --> 02:41:53,357
in a competing system and it does all
of these different things. And the reason

2855
02:41:53,440 --> 02:41:57,357
that's important is because right now in
US war games we're predicting that we'll

2856
02:41:57,440 --> 02:41:59,917
run out like US war games against a

2857
02:42:00,000 --> 02:42:04,397
hypothetical Chinese Chinese invasion
scenario in Taiwan. We run out of

2858
02:42:04,480 --> 02:42:06,557
missiles in less than eight days. Like

2859
02:42:06,640 --> 02:42:09,117
we have eight days and then we are we're

2860
02:42:09,200 --> 02:42:12,157
completely out.

2861
02:42:12,240 --> 02:42:15,917
So 8 days of pain for China doesn't mean

2862
02:42:16,000 --> 02:42:20,397
very much to a country that thinks
in 100year timelines. They're like that's

2863
02:42:20,480 --> 02:42:24,477
it? Like there will be 8 days of pain
and then it will take the United States

2864
02:42:24,560 --> 02:42:26,957
literally years to rebuild that arsenal.

2865
02:42:27,040 --> 02:42:28,797
Oh [__] Well, we could just go win.

2866
02:42:28,880 --> 02:42:33,357
Let's just go do it. Like like like just
put the cannon fodder out there. soak up

2867
02:42:33,440 --> 02:42:36,877
the missiles and then we win because
we have years to operate with impunity

2868
02:42:36,960 --> 02:42:40,237
until they get their [__] together.
We have to fix this as a country. We have

2869
02:42:40,320 --> 02:42:44,157
to get back to where things are actually
manufacturable. As a country, we've

2870
02:42:44,240 --> 02:42:48,717
slipped into this problem where we
build so few arms that we build really

2871
02:42:48,800 --> 02:42:52,797
expensive, really exquisite things that
take years to complete. We need to get

2872
02:42:52,880 --> 02:42:56,157
back into more of a World War II
mentality where we can build weapons

2873
02:42:56,240 --> 02:42:58,237
faster than we can use them. Because now

2874
02:42:58,320 --> 02:43:01,357
China has to think about day 8, day 80,

2875
02:43:01,440 --> 02:43:05,437
day 800, day 8,000. That's how you're
going to deter them. They need to look

2876
02:43:05,520 --> 02:43:10,157
and see that you are a continuously
present adversary. That there is a

2877
02:43:10,240 --> 02:43:15,117
credible threat of violence that extends
beyond the weekend. Uh that that's the

2878
02:43:15,200 --> 02:43:18,637
only way we're going to keep them from
running rough shot over everybody. And

2879
02:43:18,720 --> 02:43:22,957
this may be more political, but I'll say
it anyway. Taiwan is not the end state

2880
02:43:23,040 --> 02:43:27,517
for China. And all the people who think
that this fight over Taiwan is the real

2881
02:43:27,600 --> 02:43:31,597
fight are missing the point.
They believe that the Philippines is their

2882
02:43:31,680 --> 02:43:35,757
territory. They believe that Korea
is their territory. They also believe that

2883
02:43:35,840 --> 02:43:39,197
North Korea is their territory, but they
like them as a buffer state with South

2884
02:43:39,280 --> 02:43:43,277
Korea. But that would change the moment
they could actually capture South Korea.

2885
02:43:43,360 --> 02:43:46,957
And they even think that most of Japan
belongs to them. They think that it's

2886
02:43:47,040 --> 02:43:49,197
theirs. They they've tried over and over

2887
02:43:49,280 --> 02:43:51,917
for thousands of years and even today

2888
02:43:52,000 --> 02:43:54,557
like even publicly they won't say they

2889
02:43:54,640 --> 02:43:59,037
own all of Japan but they do maintain
they own part of Japan like like no no

2890
02:43:59,120 --> 02:44:03,837
maybe we don't own all of it but but
like that part that's definitely ours.

2891
02:44:03,920 --> 02:44:05,837
It is really dangerous to let people

2892
02:44:05,920 --> 02:44:09,677
with millennial long ambitions of ruling

2893
02:44:09,760 --> 02:44:13,917
those areas go unchecked because like
like even if you don't give a [__] about

2894
02:44:14,000 --> 02:44:16,957
Taiwan, which you should because our
whole modern economy runs on chips from

2895
02:44:17,040 --> 02:44:20,637
them and until we figure out how to make
them better or as good ourselves, like

2896
02:44:20,720 --> 02:44:24,717
we have to keep them around. Like even
if you don't give a [__] about Taiwan,

2897
02:44:24,800 --> 02:44:26,557
there's a lot of reasons to make sure

2898
02:44:26,640 --> 02:44:29,997
we're spooking China on day 80, day 800.

2899
02:44:30,080 --> 02:44:33,277
>> Wow. So, I I people like talking about

2900
02:44:33,360 --> 02:44:37,197
the AI part of the missiles, but honestly,
if our missiles had no AI and

2901
02:44:37,280 --> 02:44:41,037
we're just able to make them 10 times
faster, that's pretty good all on its

2902
02:44:41,120 --> 02:44:43,437
own, even if we were doing nothing else.

2903
02:44:43,520 --> 02:44:46,797
>> Jeez. Do any of Do any of our
adversaries have this type of technology

2904
02:44:46,880 --> 02:44:51,917
that you're developing? >> China
definitely has the technology in

2905
02:44:52,000 --> 02:44:54,957
terms of manufacturing process. They
know how to make stuff fast. They know

2906
02:44:55,040 --> 02:44:58,237
how to make it cheap. They have
automated cruise missile production

2907
02:44:58,320 --> 02:45:01,357
facilities that are capable of turning
out more cruise missiles in a week than

2908
02:45:01,440 --> 02:45:05,757
the entire United States turns
out in a year. I mean like is

2909
02:45:05,840 --> 02:45:09,277
do you know do you know the multiple
for Chinese ship building capacity? So so

2910
02:45:09,360 --> 02:45:12,957
China China has more ship building
capacity than us. They can build ships a

2911
02:45:13,040 --> 02:45:16,397
lot faster than us. If if we start
blowing up boats in the Pacific, they're

2912
02:45:16,480 --> 02:45:19,997
going to be able to build more. What how
much more ship building capacity do you

2913
02:45:20,080 --> 02:45:23,357
think they have? How much more? Five
time you think it's five times more? You

2914
02:45:23,440 --> 02:45:26,317
think it's 100 times more? What do
you think it I honestly have no idea.

2915
02:45:26,400 --> 02:45:28,237
>> Make a crazy guess.

2916
02:45:28,320 --> 02:45:33,357
>> 20 times. >> It's 350 times.
They have 350 times more

2917
02:45:33,440 --> 02:45:35,837
ship building capacity
in the United States.

2918
02:45:35,920 --> 02:45:39,037
>> An equivalent ship. >> So, no,
it's so it's worse. People will

2919
02:45:39,120 --> 02:45:42,237
try to argue with me that and sometimes
they'll say, "But Palmer, all of that is

2920
02:45:42,320 --> 02:45:46,477
commercial ship building capacity."
So, it's unfair to compare, you know, uh,

2921
02:45:46,560 --> 02:45:49,517
all of China with all of the United
States because you're counting all of

2922
02:45:49,600 --> 02:45:53,117
China's commercial shipping. But,
you know why it's fair? Because in China,

2923
02:45:53,200 --> 02:45:57,437
the law says that all commercial vessels
have to meet military standards. If you

2924
02:45:57,520 --> 02:46:01,997
are building a roll-on rolloff passenger
ferry for transporting people and cars,

2925
02:46:02,080 --> 02:46:06,237
you have to have deck plate supports
that are strong enough to transport

2926
02:46:06,320 --> 02:46:08,237
tanks and armored vehicles on. They're

2927
02:46:08,320 --> 02:46:11,917
requiring even their civilian vessels to

2928
02:46:12,000 --> 02:46:15,997
all be military standards compliant
because they foresee a world where

2929
02:46:16,080 --> 02:46:19,837
they're going to nationalize their
entire domestic fleet and use it in a

2930
02:46:19,920 --> 02:46:22,957
whole of China fight against the West.

2931
02:46:23,040 --> 02:46:26,317
And it's funny cuz people like, oh well
they're just doing that just in case.

2932
02:46:26,400 --> 02:46:28,877
Just in case it's not just in case.

2933
02:46:28,960 --> 02:46:31,917
China understands how much more it costs

2934
02:46:32,000 --> 02:46:34,157
for every single ferry to support

2935
02:46:34,240 --> 02:46:36,637
military operations. They are taking

2936
02:46:36,720 --> 02:46:39,117
that cost on because they expect to do

2937
02:46:39,200 --> 02:46:43,757
it. They're not going to basically spend
billions of dollars for absolutely no

2938
02:46:43,840 --> 02:46:47,757
reason in an economy that knows how to cut
corners like no other. Like they are

2939
02:46:47,840 --> 02:46:51,437
doing this cuz they they believe it's
a core part of their strategy. So yes,

2940
02:46:51,520 --> 02:46:53,437
when they're not quite equivalent like I

2941
02:46:53,520 --> 02:46:58,717
would say US ship like ship for ship,
our ships are better. But quantity has a

2942
02:46:58,800 --> 02:47:02,237
quality all on its own.
And when you're talking about a 350x

2943
02:47:02,320 --> 02:47:04,957
difference, people will say, "Oh, well,
the Chinese Navy is only twice the size

2944
02:47:05,040 --> 02:47:07,517
of our Navy." Well, yeah, today, but on

2945
02:47:07,600 --> 02:47:12,317
day 10, they're going to be probably
a lot bigger, and then every day we're

2946
02:47:12,400 --> 02:47:15,677
going to crank like we're going to crank
out a ship a month, and they're going to

2947
02:47:15,760 --> 02:47:19,277
put out 350 ships a month. Like,
you could see where this just becomes an

2948
02:47:19,360 --> 02:47:20,877
impossible problem for the United

2949
02:47:20,960 --> 02:47:23,837
States. And so what really happens is we

2950
02:47:23,920 --> 02:47:26,957
become an ally that is unreliable, that

2951
02:47:27,040 --> 02:47:28,877
says we're there for our allies, but

2952
02:47:28,960 --> 02:47:34,077
only in the way that people say they
stand for things, right? Like it's very

2953
02:47:34,160 --> 02:47:37,597
easy for us to say, "Oh, of course we
stand with Japan." Okay, well, what's

2954
02:47:37,680 --> 02:47:40,317
that going to mean? When every single
one of our ships is at the bottom of the

2955
02:47:40,400 --> 02:47:43,757
ocean and we have one new ship coming
off the line a month, it's a meaningless

2956
02:47:43,840 --> 02:47:47,277
promise. And so our adversaries see that

2957
02:47:47,360 --> 02:47:51,197
and a lot of them are going to our
allies and China is saying, "Hey, you

2958
02:47:51,280 --> 02:47:55,517
know the math. You can do the math.
You need to end up in the cyinosphere and

2959
02:47:55,600 --> 02:47:59,197
like and the US can say they love you
all they want. Reality is they can't

2960
02:47:59,280 --> 02:48:01,437
back up. They can't cash those checks."

2961
02:48:01,520 --> 02:48:05,277
And so uh my my belief is uh that the
United States should stop being the

2962
02:48:05,360 --> 02:48:09,197
world police. We need to stop sending
our people all over the world to fight

2963
02:48:09,280 --> 02:48:13,117
everyone's wars for them. And we need to
become the world's gun store. We need to

2964
02:48:13,200 --> 02:48:16,717
just sell them the guns that they need
to defend themselves and we need to make

2965
02:48:16,800 --> 02:48:20,237
sure that we actually keep those shelves
stocked because if like look at what's

2966
02:48:20,320 --> 02:48:24,237
happening in Ukraine. We're not sending
them more stuff partly for you know

2967
02:48:24,320 --> 02:48:28,397
various partisan political reasons and
strategic reasons but we're also out of

2968
02:48:28,480 --> 02:48:30,957
stuff to send to them. Like we we're out

2969
02:48:31,040 --> 02:48:35,517
of artillery shells that we can spare
to Ukraine. We're out of a lot of like we

2970
02:48:35,600 --> 02:48:36,877
don't have any Javelins to send to

2971
02:48:36,960 --> 02:48:39,597
Ukraine. We're all out. And so, how

2972
02:48:39,680 --> 02:48:43,917
could our allies stay allied with us
if they think that they're going to get

2973
02:48:44,000 --> 02:48:47,357
into a conflict and we're just say, "Oh,
sorry. Actually, we forgot how to make

2974
02:48:47,440 --> 02:48:51,597
things." Uh, we forgot like
a hundred years ago. Sorry.

2975
02:48:51,680 --> 02:48:55,437
>> Jeez. Do they have
any of the technology?

2976
02:48:55,520 --> 02:48:59,917
>> So, manufacturing wise, which I
just talked about, they're ahead of us.

2977
02:49:00,000 --> 02:49:03,517
You're talking about like AI,
the sensors, do they have that? Luckily,

2978
02:49:03,600 --> 02:49:07,437
we're ahead on that. like the United
States is ahead of China on a lot of

2979
02:49:07,520 --> 02:49:11,277
this advanced sensing technology
on a lot of advanced AI. Now, China like

2980
02:49:11,360 --> 02:49:13,917
don't underestimate them. You know,
we've seen like with Deep Seek and

2981
02:49:14,000 --> 02:49:17,357
stuff, they're doing very interesting
things in the AI realm. I don't think

2982
02:49:17,440 --> 02:49:18,957
that we're like a decade ahead of them

2983
02:49:19,040 --> 02:49:21,517
in technology. We have what I'm doing at

2984
02:49:21,600 --> 02:49:24,717
Andreal is ahead of what China is doing

2985
02:49:24,800 --> 02:49:28,077
in most ways by a few years, but that's

2986
02:49:28,160 --> 02:49:31,917
it. I'm a few years ahead of them.

2987
02:49:32,000 --> 02:49:35,517
I hate to admit this, but I was part
of the problem for a long time. I made

2988
02:49:35,600 --> 02:49:39,677
millions of virtual reality headsets in
China. That's where we made Oculus Rift.

2989
02:49:39,760 --> 02:49:41,917
That's where we made Gear VR. That's

2990
02:49:42,000 --> 02:49:47,357
where we made Oculus Quest. Millions and
millions of those things. And I know how

2991
02:49:47,440 --> 02:49:50,637
good they are, not just
at manufacturing, but at the actual

2992
02:49:50,720 --> 02:49:54,157
technology development side.
They understood exactly what what we were

2993
02:49:54,240 --> 02:49:56,077
doing. They knew how we were doing it.

2994
02:49:56,160 --> 02:49:59,037
They were able to rip it off. They were
able to do it with their own domestic

2995
02:49:59,120 --> 02:50:03,277
companies. when we were developing
cutting edge technology, we were never

2996
02:50:03,360 --> 02:50:05,757
more than a few months ahead of China.

2997
02:50:05,840 --> 02:50:10,077
Like anything that we figured out, they
would be able to copy it and figure it

2998
02:50:10,160 --> 02:50:13,997
out very quickly. Now, I I think they
don't have a culture that's particularly

2999
02:50:14,080 --> 02:50:16,157
good at leaping beyond what we're doing.

3000
02:50:16,240 --> 02:50:19,437
But you don't have to leap beyond what
we're doing to be a threat to us. If

3001
02:50:19,520 --> 02:50:21,837
they're really good at manufacturing

3002
02:50:21,920 --> 02:50:24,477
and they have way more people

3003
02:50:24,560 --> 02:50:26,637
and they have tech that is about as good

3004
02:50:26,720 --> 02:50:29,997
as ours, that's all you need to win.

3005
02:50:30,080 --> 02:50:33,997
Yeah. I mean, it's my understanding,
isn't it Chinese law that any anything

3006
02:50:34,080 --> 02:50:38,157
that gets developed in that in that
country that could help their military

3007
02:50:38,240 --> 02:50:40,157
has to be That's right. has to be shared.

3008
02:50:40,240 --> 02:50:43,437
>> So, you're you're you're you're
talking about a particular provision of a

3009
02:50:43,520 --> 02:50:45,437
policy, a legal policy that they call

3010
02:50:45,520 --> 02:50:48,637
civil military fusion. Uh, anything that

3011
02:50:48,720 --> 02:50:53,517
is civilian is inherently military
as well. And if the military wants to use

3012
02:50:53,600 --> 02:50:57,517
it, they have all rights to it.
You cannot deny it to them. You you cannot

3013
02:50:57,600 --> 02:51:01,277
tell them no. you cannot refuse to sell
it to them. They they are basically

3014
02:51:01,360 --> 02:51:05,277
saying the military apparatus and the
civilian apparatus are one and the same

3015
02:51:05,360 --> 02:51:07,597
and you may you cannot operate within

3016
02:51:07,680 --> 02:51:09,837
the Chinese social contract unless you

3017
02:51:09,920 --> 02:51:12,397
equally support both. I'm actually glad

3018
02:51:12,480 --> 02:51:15,677
that the United States has given

3019
02:51:15,760 --> 02:51:19,517
companies the freedom like like I'm you
know I'm I'm a libertarian leaning guy.

3020
02:51:19,600 --> 02:51:23,037
I think it is good when you have the right
to self-determination. If I decide

3021
02:51:23,120 --> 02:51:27,437
that I want to be a pacifist and never
sell a single thing to the United States

3022
02:51:27,520 --> 02:51:31,037
military, I should absolutely have that
right. I think that people should morate

3023
02:51:31,120 --> 02:51:34,477
me for it. I think that's the wrong
opinion. But isn't it good that you're

3024
02:51:34,560 --> 02:51:38,637
allowed to make that decision that the
state can't come and say you have to

3025
02:51:38,720 --> 02:51:42,717
work for me if I want you to that I
I'm glad about that. But we have to

3026
02:51:42,800 --> 02:51:47,677
recognize that there are disadvantages
to that. One disadvantage has been the

3027
02:51:47,760 --> 02:51:51,917
way that the United States technology
industry has treated the United States

3028
02:51:52,000 --> 02:51:55,997
of America for the last 20 years.
I mean, I I know it sounds crazy today

3029
02:51:56,080 --> 02:52:00,397
when you have Mark Zuckerberg begging
Congress to ban Tik Tok and you have all

3030
02:52:00,480 --> 02:52:03,517
these tech companies saying that China
is a huge threat to them. But let's get

3031
02:52:03,600 --> 02:52:04,957
in the time machine for a second. Let's

3032
02:52:05,040 --> 02:52:08,797
travel back 10 years to 2015. What was

3033
02:52:08,880 --> 02:52:13,197
going on in 2015? Google was trying
to get into China. Facebook was trying to

3034
02:52:13,280 --> 02:52:17,517
get into China. Microsoft was trying
to get into China. China had convinced all

3035
02:52:17,600 --> 02:52:21,437
of these companies and more, Apple 2,
that they were ascending to be the

3036
02:52:21,520 --> 02:52:24,877
world's dominant economic superpower,
that they were going to surpass the US

3037
02:52:24,960 --> 02:52:27,597
in short order, and that these companies

3038
02:52:27,680 --> 02:52:32,077
could make trillions of dollars
by working with China the way China wanted

3039
02:52:32,160 --> 02:52:34,557
them to work. So making, for example,
your have you heard about Project

3040
02:52:34,640 --> 02:52:39,277
Dragonfly? That was Google's project to
make a censored version of Google search

3041
02:52:39,360 --> 02:52:41,037
engine for the Chinese market that would

3042
02:52:41,120 --> 02:52:42,877
appease the Chinese authorities. It was

3043
02:52:42,960 --> 02:52:46,317
used to censor search results and also

3044
02:52:46,400 --> 02:52:50,397
collect and report on information
on any dissident to pipeline that to the

3045
02:52:50,480 --> 02:52:53,757
Chinese government. So anyone who would
be using it to try and search for things

3046
02:52:53,840 --> 02:52:56,957
they shouldn't, it was going to alert
the Chinese authorities and tell them

3047
02:52:57,040 --> 02:52:58,957
how to find them.

3048
02:52:59,040 --> 02:53:02,077
You basically had for a period of about

3049
02:53:02,160 --> 02:53:06,397
a decade a total abdication
of responsibility on the part of our tech

3050
02:53:06,480 --> 02:53:10,717
companies to do anything for the United
States. They were all refusing to work

3051
02:53:10,800 --> 02:53:14,877
with our military. protesting our
military. Google famously pulled out of

3052
02:53:14,960 --> 02:53:17,997
the Project Maven contract because their
employees were angry about it. That was

3053
02:53:18,080 --> 02:53:22,077
a project to use Google's AI to do
better targeting that would better avoid

3054
02:53:22,160 --> 02:53:25,837
civilian casualties. And their employees
protested and they gave in. The

3055
02:53:25,920 --> 02:53:27,517
executive says, "Okay, we won't do it.

3056
02:53:27,600 --> 02:53:31,357
We're going to pull out of working with
the military." Actually, YouTube banned

3057
02:53:31,440 --> 02:53:35,277
the Anderal YouTube account about 2
years into our company. They banned it.

3058
02:53:35,360 --> 02:53:38,157
They said that our company promoted harm

3059
02:53:38,240 --> 02:53:41,197
of people. We said, "Guys, like that's

3060
02:53:41,280 --> 02:53:45,437
what war is like it's it's either it's
either threatening you're going to harm

3061
02:53:45,520 --> 02:53:49,197
somebody or actually doing it like
that that that's the whole game." And they

3062
02:53:49,280 --> 02:53:53,677
said, "Sorry, uh this is this is this
is not allowed under our threat of harm

3063
02:53:53,760 --> 02:53:55,757
policy." And uh they didn't actually

3064
02:53:55,840 --> 02:53:59,917
unban us until years later when they uh

3065
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:03,197
in the midst of this new re alignment of

3066
02:54:03,280 --> 02:54:07,517
tech with our military and in our
government uh when they launched the new

3067
02:54:07,600 --> 02:54:10,317
Google Federal team doing government
work and they realized they needed to

3068
02:54:10,400 --> 02:54:11,997
integrate with something that we made.

3069
02:54:12,080 --> 02:54:14,717
And I told them, "Guys, I'm not
integrating with Google Federal until

3070
02:54:14,800 --> 02:54:18,477
you unban our YouTube account." Like
like I'm not that cucked, right? Could

3071
02:54:18,560 --> 02:54:22,157
you imagine what a cuck I'd be to to like
let them integrate with our weapon

3072
02:54:22,240 --> 02:54:25,277
systems even though they literally
banned me from the largest video

3073
02:54:25,360 --> 02:54:27,437
platform and deplatformed me from the

3074
02:54:27,520 --> 02:54:29,997
largest video platform in the world

3075
02:54:30,080 --> 02:54:33,117
because some shitty pencil pushing

3076
02:54:33,200 --> 02:54:37,117
blue-haired person in San Francisco
doesn't like my politics or my company.

3077
02:54:37,200 --> 02:54:38,957
And to their credit, they did unban us.

3078
02:54:39,040 --> 02:54:42,557
We've been unbanned for years. So like
good for Google. The point I'm trying to

3079
02:54:42,640 --> 02:54:45,997
make is people are coming back around
and they're starting to say they're

3080
02:54:46,080 --> 02:54:49,117
going to work with the military. Google
is saying that, Meta is saying that,

3081
02:54:49,200 --> 02:54:54,477
Microsoft is saying that. Apple is not
saying that. Pay attention to that. But

3082
02:54:54,560 --> 02:54:58,077
there was this period of time where we
ran a very dangerous experiment which

3083
02:54:58,160 --> 02:55:01,197
was decoupling our most innovative, most

3084
02:55:01,280 --> 02:55:05,837
valuable companies from the military
entirely. And that's an experiment we've

3085
02:55:05,920 --> 02:55:09,117
never run as a country. Has there ever
been a time where our most innovative

3086
02:55:09,200 --> 02:55:11,757
companies didn't work with the US
military? Could you imagine how World

3087
02:55:11,840 --> 02:55:15,597
War II would have gone if could you
could you imagine if General Motors and

3088
02:55:15,680 --> 02:55:19,517
IBM and General Electric had said,
"Well, we're not going to work with you.

3089
02:55:19,600 --> 02:55:24,397
We we we think that's we think that's
wrong. In fact, we're going to work with

3090
02:55:24,480 --> 02:55:28,317
Imperial Japan because we think that's
a huge revenue growth opportunity for us

3091
02:55:28,400 --> 02:55:31,997
in the future and we think manufacturing
is going to be cheaper there." That's

3092
02:55:32,080 --> 02:55:36,477
what our big tech corporations were doing.
Imagine if during the cold war if

3093
02:55:36,560 --> 02:55:38,797
all imagine if Zenith and RCA and

3094
02:55:38,880 --> 02:55:42,477
Westinghouse had said you know we love

3095
02:55:42,560 --> 02:55:46,477
America in a abstract hypothetical way

3096
02:55:46,560 --> 02:55:49,917
but actually we're going to team up
with the Soviet Union and we're going to

3097
02:55:50,000 --> 02:55:53,917
manufacture all of our chips there
like could you imagine what would have

3098
02:55:54,000 --> 02:55:58,477
happened to America and so I I was when
I was in Silicon Valley this was one of

3099
02:55:58,560 --> 02:56:02,237
the things that was rolling through
my head was oh my god I'm sitting amongst

3100
02:56:02,320 --> 02:56:04,237
the best technologists in the and none

3101
02:56:04,320 --> 02:56:05,997
of them care about our military. None of

3102
02:56:06,080 --> 02:56:09,757
them care about America. And they're

3103
02:56:09,840 --> 02:56:13,837
thrilled to work with China. I'm so glad
that China I I think China's actually

3104
02:56:13,920 --> 02:56:19,037
made a misstep. And I'll end I'll end
this rant with this. China has made a

3105
02:56:19,120 --> 02:56:22,077
misstep that we should take advantage of.
They tricked all of our tech

3106
02:56:22,160 --> 02:56:25,997
companies and our media companies into
believing that China was this revenue

3107
02:56:26,080 --> 02:56:27,997
opportunity. And so they basically

3108
02:56:28,080 --> 02:56:33,677
caused our technology innovation economy
to decouple from our government. and our

3109
02:56:33,760 --> 02:56:37,037
country and our national responsibilities.
What they should have

3110
02:56:37,120 --> 02:56:41,597
done is actually given them a slice
of the Chinese pie. They should have let

3111
02:56:41,680 --> 02:56:44,717
Google in. They should have let Facebook
in. They should have given them some

3112
02:56:44,800 --> 02:56:48,157
money and then a little more and a
little more and a little more to keep

3113
02:56:48,240 --> 02:56:51,117
them on the line. You know,
like basically to string them along, keep

3114
02:56:51,200 --> 02:56:54,317
them in the communist bucket. But what

3115
02:56:54,400 --> 02:56:59,037
they did instead was they eventually
said, "Haha, we tricked you. we're not

3116
02:56:59,120 --> 02:57:02,717
going to allow you in and we're going to
subsidize bite dance and also bite dance

3117
02:57:02,800 --> 02:57:05,197
is going to sell TikTok to you guys
and it's going to take over your entire

3118
02:57:05,280 --> 02:57:09,037
social media industry and that was when
all the tech companies flipped when they

3119
02:57:09,120 --> 02:57:13,357
realized that China was not their friend
and so I is making a tactical error he

3120
02:57:13,440 --> 02:57:17,997
basically should have kept controlling
them by allowing them to get a few

3121
02:57:18,080 --> 02:57:20,077
dollars here and there we should take

3122
02:57:20,160 --> 02:57:25,037
advantage to the fullest of this mistake
that he's made and when people have

3123
02:57:25,120 --> 02:57:29,197
asked me Palmer why why are you like
forgiving why are you forgiving Meta or

3124
02:57:29,280 --> 02:57:33,917
Google or Microsoft or Apple. Like why
why are you letting them get away with

3125
02:57:34,000 --> 02:57:38,637
changing their allegiance from China
to the US? My point is we need to let them

3126
02:57:38,720 --> 02:57:42,477
get away with it. Like the whole point
should be to persuade them to do the

3127
02:57:42,560 --> 02:57:46,237
right thing, even if it's for the wrong
reasons. And what we need to do is take

3128
02:57:46,320 --> 02:57:50,557
advantage of this moment in time and say,
"Hell yeah, you're on our side.

3129
02:57:50,640 --> 02:57:55,277
Let's go." And get them so integrated
that they don't really have a chance to

3130
02:57:55,360 --> 02:57:58,877
change their mind in the future. Cuz
if we push them away and refuse to allow

3131
02:57:58,960 --> 02:58:03,597
them to engage, they're going
to eventually divorce themselves from the

3132
02:58:03,680 --> 02:58:07,357
US interests again. >> Wow,
that's smart. That's really smart.

3133
02:58:07,440 --> 02:58:10,077
>> It is interesting to think
about the Apple one in particular.

3134
02:58:10,160 --> 02:58:13,917
>> Like Tim Cook, I have nothing against
the guy personally, but like if I were

3135
02:58:14,000 --> 02:58:15,117
him,

3136
02:58:15,200 --> 02:58:17,917
>> I would feel a little humiliated

3137
02:58:18,000 --> 02:58:22,477
>> that I can't say anything about China

3138
02:58:22,560 --> 02:58:25,917
despite supposedly on paper being one of
the most powerful men in the world. like

3139
02:58:26,000 --> 02:58:28,077
he speaks out against climate change and

3140
02:58:28,160 --> 02:58:30,797
he speaks out in favor of diversity and

3141
02:58:30,880 --> 02:58:35,437
he puts all this money into like ads for
Mother Earth and he and he and he tweets

3142
02:58:35,520 --> 02:58:39,837
about how we all need to, you know,
respect the rights of black people in

3143
02:58:39,920 --> 02:58:43,917
America and we need to solve these law
enforcement problems. So he he's he's

3144
02:58:44,000 --> 02:58:46,637
politically engaged. Imagine what would

3145
02:58:46,720 --> 02:58:48,797
happen if he said something like, "I

3146
02:58:48,880 --> 02:58:51,677
believe concentration camps are bad."

3147
02:58:51,760 --> 02:58:56,877
like China on account of the weaguer
Muslim issue would immediately lock them

3148
02:58:56,960 --> 02:59:00,717
out of the country. Like he can't say
that. Isn't that crazy? Like the most

3149
02:59:00,800 --> 02:59:03,437
power powerful executive in the country

3150
02:59:03,520 --> 02:59:07,917
running our most valuable company
on account of the whims of a foreign ruler

3151
02:59:08,000 --> 02:59:10,237
can't say things like human rights are

3152
02:59:10,320 --> 02:59:15,037
good, concentration camps are bad.
I think you probably shouldn't lock people

3153
02:59:15,120 --> 02:59:19,037
up for their religion. like he he could
only comment on our domestic issues

3154
02:59:19,120 --> 02:59:22,557
because here our government says you're
allowed to say whatever you want about

3155
02:59:22,640 --> 02:59:26,317
anything. And like I if I were him,
I'd be I'd feel a little humiliated about

3156
02:59:26,400 --> 02:59:29,997
that. I'd be like, I'm not I'm not the big
boss man. I'm not actually powerful.

3157
02:59:30,080 --> 02:59:34,637
I'm actually just the stoogge of the
country that makes the thing that I sell

3158
02:59:34,720 --> 02:59:36,957
cuz they they they can't do it if he did

3159
02:59:37,040 --> 02:59:39,597
this. Like imagine what would happen if

3160
02:59:39,680 --> 02:59:42,797
Xi locked Apple out of China.

3161
02:59:42,880 --> 02:59:46,797
two trillion dollars in market cap gone
just like that. Almost everything they

3162
02:59:46,880 --> 02:59:50,317
make is made in China, made with Chinese
parts. Like that would be the end of

3163
02:59:50,400 --> 02:59:51,837
Apple. The most valuable company in

3164
02:59:51,920 --> 02:59:54,477
American history exists day-to-day at

3165
02:59:54,560 --> 02:59:57,357
the whims of the dictator that runs

3166
02:59:57,440 --> 03:00:01,597
China. Isn't Isn't Isn't that just like
an insane situation? Could you imagine

3167
03:00:01,680 --> 03:00:04,797
if that had happened during the Cold War?
Imagine if the Kremlin could have

3168
03:00:04,880 --> 03:00:08,957
just like put out a single legal
document that would have destroyed what

3169
03:00:09,040 --> 03:00:12,317
was the biggest company during the Cold
War in America. What would it have been?

3170
03:00:12,400 --> 03:00:15,357
>> Man, I have no idea. >> Would
it have been an oil company? Would

3171
03:00:15,440 --> 03:00:18,957
it have been a manufacturing company?
I don't know. Like, pick any of them.

3172
03:00:19,040 --> 03:00:21,277
Whether it's General Motors or Exxon

3173
03:00:21,360 --> 03:00:24,637
Mobile or uh

3174
03:00:24,720 --> 03:00:28,557
I don't know who else
was really big back then.

3175
03:00:28,640 --> 03:00:31,037
What was the smoking company?
What was the smoke?

3176
03:00:31,120 --> 03:00:32,077
>> Marble.

3177
03:00:32,160 --> 03:00:35,197
>> Yeah. What was it? It was Marbor is

3178
03:00:35,280 --> 03:00:39,917
owned by somebody, isn't it? Imagine
if imagine if that could have just been

3179
03:00:40,000 --> 03:00:44,317
shut down because a dictator in Russia
is like, "Oh, I I don't like you anymore.

3180
03:00:44,400 --> 03:00:47,997
>> I'm going to destroy you."
>> Anyway, that and and during the Cold

3181
03:00:48,080 --> 03:00:51,917
War, we understood this at a political
level, too. Not to bring it back to

3182
03:00:52,000 --> 03:00:54,637
Trump, but like Trump in instinctively

3183
03:00:54,720 --> 03:00:56,397
understands this in a way that the

3184
03:00:56,480 --> 03:00:59,117
globalist elites do not. They thought

3185
03:00:59,200 --> 03:01:03,997
that outsourcing everything was just
a great thing. It's amazing. They're

3186
03:01:04,080 --> 03:01:07,837
against tariffs. like why why would you
make it in the less efficient economy?

3187
03:01:07,920 --> 03:01:11,037
Why wouldn't you make it wherever it
wants to be made according to the global

3188
03:01:11,120 --> 03:01:15,357
interdynnamics? And the problem is they
forgot that once you can't make anything

3189
03:01:15,440 --> 03:01:19,197
and once your companies don't make
anything, you have no leverage and

3190
03:01:19,280 --> 03:01:23,517
you've just handed it away to everyone
else. Like Trump understands that if we

3191
03:01:23,600 --> 03:01:25,757
don't make things in America, we're

3192
03:01:25,840 --> 03:01:28,877
actually just everyone else's [__]

3193
03:01:28,960 --> 03:01:31,117
And like what what's the price on that?

3194
03:01:31,200 --> 03:01:35,117
It's easy to complain about tariffs
making cars more expensive because the

3195
03:01:35,200 --> 03:01:37,757
parts can't come from China, but like

3196
03:01:37,840 --> 03:01:42,637
what what value do you put on the fact
that a dictator in China could destroy

3197
03:01:42,720 --> 03:01:47,037
our economy overnight by signing a few
pieces of paper? Like isn't isn't that a

3198
03:01:47,120 --> 03:01:51,037
situation that we should just be like
humiliated by every day as a nation?

3199
03:01:51,120 --> 03:01:54,797
Like, shouldn't we be wake up saying,
"Holy [__] like everything I'm enjoying

3200
03:01:54,880 --> 03:01:57,437
is because Xi hasn't decided to screw us

3201
03:01:57,520 --> 03:01:59,677
yet." And and and G's going to do it.

3202
03:01:59,760 --> 03:02:03,597
Like when he people think that the first

3203
03:02:03,680 --> 03:02:07,597
missile to fly is going to be a Chinese
ship firing at a US ship in the street

3204
03:02:07,680 --> 03:02:09,677
of Taiwan. That's not the first missile.

3205
03:02:09,760 --> 03:02:13,037
The first missile is going to be Xi
calling up of his buddies in the United

3206
03:02:13,120 --> 03:02:16,877
States and saying, "The United States
government tries to fight this. I'm

3207
03:02:16,960 --> 03:02:20,477
going to destroy your economy. I will
do it. I will do it tomorrow. I will kick

3208
03:02:20,560 --> 03:02:23,277
all of you out. I will give away all
your special waiverss. We're going to

3209
03:02:23,360 --> 03:02:26,317
steal all your factories. We're going
to nationalize all your workers. And then

3210
03:02:26,400 --> 03:02:29,517
we are going to sell iPhones
to the entire world. and you will become

3211
03:02:29,600 --> 03:02:33,677
irrelevant. Like that that is
actually what he has in his quiver.

3212
03:02:33,760 --> 03:02:36,237
>> Geez, >> that's [__] scary.

3213
03:02:36,320 --> 03:02:38,397
>> It's heavy stuff, right? It's and and

3214
03:02:38,480 --> 03:02:41,277
and the worst part is that not to be a

3215
03:02:41,360 --> 03:02:45,757
via caricature like nobody's talking
about this. Like when was the last time

3216
03:02:45,840 --> 03:02:49,597
you you heard this, >> you know,
discussed in an open eye like

3217
03:02:49,680 --> 03:02:53,997
and it's all obviously true. Like does
anyone dispute that Xi can just destroy

3218
03:02:54,080 --> 03:02:58,317
Apple? I don't think anyone disputes that.
Does anyone dispute that Xi could

3219
03:02:58,400 --> 03:03:02,877
literally destroy millions of US jobs
and trillions if not tens of trillions

3220
03:03:02,960 --> 03:03:04,957
in market cap literally overnight with

3221
03:03:05,040 --> 03:03:08,717
the stroke of his pen? Like

3222
03:03:08,800 --> 03:03:12,957
I don't know. I I I I I I feel like
maybe maybe how people felt a little bit

3223
03:03:13,040 --> 03:03:16,717
during the Cold War, you know, just
being under the the pressure of, oh man,

3224
03:03:16,800 --> 03:03:19,117
the nukes could launch at any moment. Uh

3225
03:03:19,200 --> 03:03:21,277
I I it feels like it feels a little bit

3226
03:03:21,360 --> 03:03:25,357
like some lesser version of that.

3227
03:03:25,440 --> 03:03:27,460
>> [sighs and gasps]

3228
03:03:28,240 --> 03:03:31,597
>> So yeah, I'm a libertarian who's
pro tariffs now is the is the real

3229
03:03:31,680 --> 03:03:34,237
conclusion. I'm pro I'm pro tariffs

3230
03:03:34,320 --> 03:03:35,597
until we have our own house in order.

3231
03:03:35,680 --> 03:03:39,917
Like like I I like tariff I
I I'm not a fan of tariffs. I

3232
03:03:40,000 --> 03:03:42,077
>> How long would it even
take to get our house in order?

3233
03:03:42,160 --> 03:03:45,917
>> That not even that long. I mean you've
probably seen what people say, oh well

3234
03:03:46,000 --> 03:03:48,557
maybe tariffs work in theory, but I mean

3235
03:03:48,640 --> 03:03:51,037
it'll take years or decades to set up

3236
03:03:51,120 --> 03:03:55,997
factories. That's bogus. Look at what
we did when we transformed this country

3237
03:03:56,080 --> 03:04:00,237
during World War II. We went from
basically being a mercantalist quasi

3238
03:04:00,320 --> 03:04:02,397
agrarian society to being the world's

3239
03:04:02,480 --> 03:04:05,997
most powerful manufacturing hub in like

3240
03:04:06,080 --> 03:04:10,397
a year and a half, 2 years. Are you
really telling me we couldn't do it

3241
03:04:10,480 --> 03:04:14,797
again if it wasn't a priority? I I just
don't believe it. It's easier than ever

3242
03:04:14,880 --> 03:04:18,637
to set up a factory. I've done it in
China. Like, it's it is easier than ever

3243
03:04:18,720 --> 03:04:22,797
to set up advanced manufacturing. It's
just a matter of will. And you also need

3244
03:04:22,880 --> 03:04:26,317
to staff it. Like you know what we've
done? We've built a country where

3245
03:04:26,400 --> 03:04:29,437
through globalism,

3246
03:04:29,520 --> 03:04:34,157
no smart kid wants to be a manufacturing
process engineer for example. Is there

3247
03:04:34,240 --> 03:04:36,157
any world where Palmer lucky, let's say

3248
03:04:36,240 --> 03:04:38,077
I was 18 years old, I'm deciding what my

3249
03:04:38,160 --> 03:04:41,197
major is. Why in the world would I major

3250
03:04:41,280 --> 03:04:45,117
in anything to do with manufacturing
knowing that there's hardly any

3251
03:04:45,200 --> 03:04:46,797
manufacturing going on in my country?

3252
03:04:46,880 --> 03:04:48,317
Right? If I'm a smart kid, I'm going to

3253
03:04:48,400 --> 03:04:52,797
go work in finance or biotech or

3254
03:04:52,880 --> 03:04:55,517
uh what what else are the kids doing
these days? I guess maybe working in

3255
03:04:55,600 --> 03:04:59,917
video games. If we don't manufacture
here, then our smartest people aren't

3256
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:01,437
going to want to work in manufacturing.

3257
03:05:01,520 --> 03:05:04,877
And so like this is a problem that's
go like at least when we got out of

3258
03:05:04,960 --> 03:05:06,957
manufacturing stuff and call it like the

3259
03:05:07,040 --> 03:05:09,917
the the like globalized the globalized

3260
03:05:10,000 --> 03:05:12,557
decline starting in the '9s to now. At

3261
03:05:12,640 --> 03:05:17,037
least back in the 90s, we still had all
the leftover people from the Cold War.

3262
03:05:17,120 --> 03:05:21,037
Now they're all retired and now we don't
actually have anybody. So like this is a

3263
03:05:21,120 --> 03:05:25,277
problem where we can build the factories
quickly. But the hardest part is going

3264
03:05:25,360 --> 03:05:29,197
to be uh training the kids. Like we're
going to need to basically get serious

3265
03:05:29,280 --> 03:05:33,277
about training people to run factories
well, efficiently, using modern

3266
03:05:33,360 --> 03:05:37,437
techniques. And we we we do have
a we do have a lack of those.

3267
03:05:37,520 --> 03:05:39,997
I have a big Have you heard
of the idea of defector visas?

3268
03:05:40,080 --> 03:05:43,197
>> No. It's one of my pet political ideas.

3269
03:05:43,280 --> 03:05:47,997
Um, during the Cold War, we gave a lot
of visas to people to come to the United

3270
03:05:48,080 --> 03:05:50,157
States to immigrate here from hostile

3271
03:05:50,240 --> 03:05:55,597
powers like the Soviet Union if
they were in a critical role in those

3272
03:05:55,680 --> 03:05:58,957
countries. He basic said you're
important over there. You are one of

3273
03:05:59,040 --> 03:06:02,877
like the the puzzle pieces that keeps
everything held together for, you know,

3274
03:06:02,960 --> 03:06:06,557
their missile program. Come over to the
United States. We'll give you a job at

3275
03:06:06,640 --> 03:06:10,877
NASA and uh and we'll give you you we'll
give you a visa. you can come or you get

3276
03:06:10,960 --> 03:06:13,837
you can get an American life,
an American wife. It'll be it'll be

3277
03:06:13,920 --> 03:06:17,757
fantastic. You're gonna love it. I think
we need to start doing that again. I

3278
03:06:17,840 --> 03:06:20,157
think that that's one of the ways that we
can beat China because there's a lot

3279
03:06:20,240 --> 03:06:24,637
of people in China. They're there, but
they don't really want to be. There's a

3280
03:06:24,720 --> 03:06:28,637
lot of people who hate what China has
become. I would love it if we could say,

3281
03:06:28,720 --> 03:06:32,717
you know what, we need a lot more people
in America who know how to manufacture.

3282
03:06:32,800 --> 03:06:36,557
I want American jobs, right? To be clear,
I'm not saying we need to import

3283
03:06:36,640 --> 03:06:39,917
people because we can't survive without
immigration. And I'm not one of those

3284
03:06:40,000 --> 03:06:42,637
people. But if we can steal their very

3285
03:06:42,720 --> 03:06:47,277
best manufacturing engineers, deprive
China of those people, and then put them

3286
03:06:47,360 --> 03:06:51,997
to work here helping us catch up with
China on manufacturing, I mean, that's a

3287
03:06:52,080 --> 03:06:55,757
great trade. You know, let's haul over
their best plant managers, and then

3288
03:06:55,840 --> 03:07:00,237
let's have a thousand jobs created by each
of those guys here in America. Uh I

3289
03:07:00,320 --> 03:07:04,077
I I think we need to bring back defector
visas. We need to own it. And it seems

3290
03:07:04,160 --> 03:07:07,757
like a type of immigration that even
the really anti-immigration people can get

3291
03:07:07,840 --> 03:07:11,997
behind because the point is like look,
we're not trying to bring in millions of

3292
03:07:12,080 --> 03:07:14,717
fruit pickers. We're trying to steal the

3293
03:07:14,800 --> 03:07:17,517
very best people from our greatest foe.

3294
03:07:17,600 --> 03:07:20,877
Surely we can agree that that's usually
worth doing that. It's it's better for

3295
03:07:20,960 --> 03:07:24,157
us to have those people for them
for them to be running the missile factory

3296
03:07:24,240 --> 03:07:26,877
that's going to blow up our >>
There was a little bit of a debate on

3297
03:07:26,960 --> 03:07:29,517
that what not too long ago. Correct.

3298
03:07:29,600 --> 03:07:33,437
>> You like the skilled immigration
versus not. So that's true. The difference

3299
03:07:33,520 --> 03:07:38,397
there is that H-1Bs are about whether
or not they're like on theory, of course,

3300
03:07:38,480 --> 03:07:41,517
there's so much H-1B abuse. You would
not believe what I saw when I was in

3301
03:07:41,600 --> 03:07:45,677
Silicon Valley. It's it is insane.
It's it's obviously a program to try and

3302
03:07:45,760 --> 03:07:47,677
replace US workers with basically slave

3303
03:07:47,760 --> 03:07:50,157
labor that can't ever escape. It's like

3304
03:07:50,240 --> 03:07:52,877
it the H-1B abuse is crazy. But in

3305
03:07:52,960 --> 03:07:58,477
theory, H-1Bs are to create a job for
an immigrant if there is not a person who

3306
03:07:58,560 --> 03:08:01,997
could be hired to do that job in the
United States. A defector visa adds an

3307
03:08:02,080 --> 03:08:05,437
additional requirement. It has to be
something that they care about that

3308
03:08:05,520 --> 03:08:09,437
you're ripping away. So like it's not
just that there's a need for them here.

3309
03:08:09,520 --> 03:08:13,277
It's that it's going to hurt China
by taking them. If if if China had like if

3310
03:08:13,360 --> 03:08:17,037
China has a million people that do
something like let's say like let's say

3311
03:08:17,120 --> 03:08:21,197
that we need more rice pickers here
and China's got more rice pickers. Uh

3312
03:08:21,280 --> 03:08:22,797
China's got plenty of rice pickers.

3313
03:08:22,880 --> 03:08:26,877
Taking taking a rice picker is not going
to hurt. taking the head of an advanced

3314
03:08:26,960 --> 03:08:31,197
silicon manufacturing facility that can
make cuttingedge computer graphics chips

3315
03:08:31,280 --> 03:08:34,557
that is going to really really hurt them.
So I say I say that that was the

3316
03:08:34,640 --> 03:08:37,997
part of the debate that I didn't see
present is using immigration not just as

3317
03:08:38,080 --> 03:08:40,317
a tool to help the United States but to

3318
03:08:40,400 --> 03:08:45,037
harm our adversaries. I want it to I I
I want to stop focusing on the plow and

3319
03:08:45,120 --> 03:08:46,637
start turning it into a sword.

3320
03:08:46,720 --> 03:08:49,437
>> It's a double win. >> Exactly.
And and because there's a lot

3321
03:08:49,520 --> 03:08:51,037
of people around the world who would

3322
03:08:51,120 --> 03:08:54,317
rather be here who

3323
03:08:54,400 --> 03:08:57,597
will cause catastrophic consequences for

3324
03:08:57,680 --> 03:09:01,437
their home country if they leave. Like
here here's here's like a fun one. Think

3325
03:09:01,520 --> 03:09:06,397
about the guys who are running the uh
>> it would be like if China plucked you.

3326
03:09:06,480 --> 03:09:09,437
>> Yes. Like that that that's a great
example. Imagine if I had no national

3327
03:09:09,520 --> 03:09:12,477
allegiance and they made an offer over
there and I really wanted to live in

3328
03:09:12,560 --> 03:09:16,637
China and they just Yeah. They got they
got rid of me. that would cause so much

3329
03:09:16,720 --> 03:09:20,557
downstream damage and the best like I
don't want to go to China. In fact, my c

3330
03:09:20,640 --> 03:09:24,877
company is sanctioned by China on account
of our sales to Taiwan and so if

3331
03:09:24,960 --> 03:09:29,117
I go to China or Hong Kong I'll I'll
be arrested. It's it's fantastic. Also

3332
03:09:29,200 --> 03:09:33,357
Russia or Bellarus if I go to Barus I will
be I'll be arrested >> I would imagine.

3333
03:09:33,440 --> 03:09:37,757
>> But uh how do you know that? Oh, they
put it out publicly that the Russia has

3334
03:09:37,840 --> 03:09:41,517
the so-called poison list where they
say here are the the individuals that are

3335
03:09:41,600 --> 03:09:44,077
under extreme sanctions personally

3336
03:09:44,160 --> 03:09:46,557
individually as individuals. And uh and

3337
03:09:46,640 --> 03:09:49,277
Bellarus also recognizes the uh I think

3338
03:09:49,360 --> 03:09:53,037
Bellarus and maybe one maybe one other

3339
03:09:53,120 --> 03:09:58,157
one other like weirdo Baltic breakoff.
I can't remember what it was, but there's

3340
03:09:58,240 --> 03:10:01,837
a handful of countries in the world
where I where I literally can't go. But

3341
03:10:01,920 --> 03:10:05,117
like uh think about like not even just
China. Like let's look like public.

3342
03:10:05,200 --> 03:10:08,877
>> Oh yeah, it's public. I even tweeted
about it. I'll I I I actually have the I

3343
03:10:08,960 --> 03:10:10,477
have the notice framed in my office.

3344
03:10:10,560 --> 03:10:13,197
>> I was just going to say I want to get
that have you sign it and I'm going to

3345
03:10:13,280 --> 03:10:15,357
frame it in. >> I will
definitely send one to you. I

3346
03:10:15,440 --> 03:10:19,757
have one in my office. My dream is to get
it signed by Vladimir Putin somehow.

3347
03:10:19,840 --> 03:10:23,517
Like just I just like want to get it
on his desk somehow or you know like at

3348
03:10:23,600 --> 03:10:27,277
like a signing or something. Um by the
way he deserves a bit of credit on this

3349
03:10:27,360 --> 03:10:31,917
AI stuff. He was saying before I even
started Anderol, the c country that wins

3350
03:10:32,000 --> 03:10:35,197
in the sphere of artificial intelligence
will become the ruler of the entire

3351
03:10:35,280 --> 03:10:40,157
world. Like I know that today that
sounds like not that interesting, but

3352
03:10:40,240 --> 03:10:43,917
this was 9 years ago when everyone thought
everyone everyone thought AI was crazy.

3353
03:10:44,000 --> 03:10:47,197
>> Jinping said that too.
>> So right and like you have all these

3354
03:10:47,280 --> 03:10:50,637
world leaders who were
saying like could you imagine

3355
03:10:50,720 --> 03:10:54,717
let's say like uh could you imagine
like Hillary Clinton having an opinion on

3356
03:10:54,800 --> 03:10:57,917
something like that eight or nine years
ago? Absolutely not. Could you imagine

3357
03:10:58,000 --> 03:11:00,477
Joe Biden like putting a a steak in the

3358
03:11:00,560 --> 03:11:02,237
ground and it's like of course not. It's

3359
03:11:02,320 --> 03:11:05,277
like anyway even in growing China like

3360
03:11:05,360 --> 03:11:09,517
look at Venezuela. Let's take whoever's
running their like oil and gas machinery

3361
03:11:09,600 --> 03:11:13,837
over there. Imagine what would happen
if we identified their top 10 most

3362
03:11:13,920 --> 03:11:17,837
competent people who are running their
oil and gas organizations and we gave

3363
03:11:17,920 --> 03:11:21,677
them all defector visas and said come to
America and you can work at Exxon Mobile

3364
03:11:21,760 --> 03:11:25,357
on like industrial refinement systems
and we're going to pay you twice as much

3365
03:11:25,440 --> 03:11:29,117
as you make in Venezuela. you would
destroy the whole Venezuelan economy

3366
03:11:29,200 --> 03:11:33,677
overnight and you just have to take
like 10 people. So yeah, immigration is a

3367
03:11:33,760 --> 03:11:37,997
sword. We need to be doing way more
of this because an American passport is

3368
03:11:38,080 --> 03:11:40,317
worth its weight in diamonds, right? It

3369
03:11:40,400 --> 03:11:42,637
is it is so valuable to these people.

3370
03:11:42,720 --> 03:11:45,037
They desperately want it culturally.

3371
03:11:45,120 --> 03:11:46,637
We've dominated the world, right?

3372
03:11:46,720 --> 03:11:50,557
Everyone loves America. Even the people
who hate America love America. Even the

3373
03:11:50,640 --> 03:11:53,917
people who hate America love our movies,
love our music. They love they all want

3374
03:11:54,000 --> 03:11:56,237
to they all want to date American women.

3375
03:11:56,320 --> 03:11:58,637
Like let let's take advantage of that.

3376
03:11:58,720 --> 03:12:01,917
>> Let's talk about Anderol in the IVAS

3377
03:12:02,000 --> 03:12:07,837
program. >> The IVAS program.
So when is this coming out?

3378
03:12:07,920 --> 03:12:10,637
>> I don't know yet.
>> All right. Roughly roughly

3379
03:12:10,720 --> 03:12:11,997
>> probably in a couple weeks.

3380
03:12:12,080 --> 03:12:15,757
>> So Ivas is a program that is the modern

3381
03:12:15,840 --> 03:12:20,317
instantiation of a very old idea. This
idea that you are going to augment the

3382
03:12:20,400 --> 03:12:22,717
vision of soldiers and give them

3383
03:12:22,800 --> 03:12:24,957
superhuman perception abilities. The

3384
03:12:25,040 --> 03:12:27,917
idea is you can see at night, you can

3385
03:12:28,000 --> 03:12:31,277
see thermal signatures. You can see

3386
03:12:31,360 --> 03:12:34,077
hyperspectral signatures. You have

3387
03:12:34,160 --> 03:12:36,797
extraordinary superhuman hearing. You're

3388
03:12:36,880 --> 03:12:41,117
able to mark targets in the environment
without projecting anything in the

3389
03:12:41,200 --> 03:12:43,677
environment. You can seamlessly see in

3390
03:12:43,760 --> 03:12:48,397
your heads up display where all of your
friends are, where all of your foes are,

3391
03:12:48,480 --> 03:12:51,917
where all of the innocents
and non-combatants are, and have that all

3392
03:12:52,000 --> 03:12:55,277
just seamlessly presented to you as if
you're Superman. You know, you can see

3393
03:12:55,360 --> 03:12:59,837
through walls, you can see through night,
you can see through fog. You are

3394
03:12:59,920 --> 03:13:02,637
Superman. >> This idea
has been around for a very

3395
03:13:02,720 --> 03:13:06,557
long time of putting a heads-up display,
a computer, and a radio on every

3396
03:13:06,640 --> 03:13:10,797
soldier. You can even go back to Robert
Heinland's 1959 novel, Starship

3397
03:13:10,880 --> 03:13:14,077
Troopers, and that was really
the concept behind the mobile infantry.

3398
03:13:14,160 --> 03:13:18,317
They're wearing these kind of mech suits
with fighter jet style heads up displays

3399
03:13:18,400 --> 03:13:21,677
that show them where all their targets
are, that show them where all of the

3400
03:13:21,760 --> 03:13:25,517
good guys are, that help them do
ballistics calculations showing where

3401
03:13:25,600 --> 03:13:29,357
bullet impact is going to be in a much
more intelligent way than just, you

3402
03:13:29,440 --> 03:13:32,877
know, putting a red dot that's coaxial
aligned, but actually saying like here

3403
03:13:32,960 --> 03:13:36,797
is the impact point, factoring
in the wind, factoring in your motion,

3404
03:13:36,880 --> 03:13:40,557
factoring in what the other guy is doing.
People have tried this over and

3405
03:13:40,640 --> 03:13:44,237
over again through history and the
tech's just never quite been ready and

3406
03:13:44,320 --> 03:13:47,197
they've also not maybe worked on it
in quite the right way. But most

3407
03:13:47,280 --> 03:13:49,677
importantly, nobody's ever built
a software back end that could make it

3408
03:13:49,760 --> 03:13:54,397
work. Even if the helmets were okay,
they didn't have this kind of system,

3409
03:13:54,480 --> 03:13:58,397
whether it's AI or something else that
could understand the whole battle space,

3410
03:13:58,480 --> 03:14:03,437
taking in sensors from everybody. So my
helmet, his helmet, his helmet, and that

3411
03:14:03,520 --> 03:14:07,357
airplane, and that airplane, and that
satellite, and that ship, and you get

3412
03:14:07,440 --> 03:14:10,877
what I'm saying? You're taking building
one common fused view of the world in

3413
03:14:10,960 --> 03:14:13,357
real time has never really been properly

3414
03:14:13,440 --> 03:14:15,917
accomplished. And so you have programs

3415
03:14:16,000 --> 03:14:21,037
like future warrior and net warrior and
connected soldier and land warrior. You

3416
03:14:21,120 --> 03:14:24,477
have all these different programs where
the army has tried over and over. IVAS

3417
03:14:24,560 --> 03:14:26,957
is sort of the latest the latest the

3418
03:14:27,040 --> 03:14:29,357
latest attempt at this kind of

3419
03:14:29,440 --> 03:14:31,917
individual infantry vision vision

3420
03:14:32,000 --> 03:14:36,957
augmentation system. When the IVAS
contract was first awarded years ago, it

3421
03:14:37,040 --> 03:14:40,957
was a really big deal and I was really
excited about it. Uh I would knew I

3422
03:14:41,040 --> 03:14:43,837
couldn't compete with it because
unfortunately it was being awarded right

3423
03:14:43,920 --> 03:14:47,357
around the time that I was starting Andre.
So when when the IVAS program was

3424
03:14:47,440 --> 03:14:51,997
kind of running through the wickets,
Andre was 12 people. Obviously I was not

3425
03:14:52,080 --> 03:14:54,157
going to be able to win this contract.

3426
03:14:54,240 --> 03:14:57,597
But as an ARVR guy, I was really
excited that the army was moving in that

3427
03:14:57,680 --> 03:14:59,917
direction and they were putting a lot of

3428
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:02,637
resources behind it. IDAS is a $22

3429
03:15:02,720 --> 03:15:05,357
billion contract. It's enormous. The

3430
03:15:05,440 --> 03:15:09,677
plan is not to put this
on the heads of one person

3431
03:15:09,760 --> 03:15:12,317
or, you know, one top tier unit. It's to

3432
03:15:12,400 --> 03:15:14,397
put it on the heads of every single

3433
03:15:14,480 --> 03:15:17,197
person in the army who's bearing a

3434
03:15:17,280 --> 03:15:21,517
rifle. Anyone who's making contact
with the enemy is going to have superhuman

3435
03:15:21,600 --> 03:15:23,997
augmented vision that allows them to

3436
03:15:24,080 --> 03:15:27,357
never miss anything, never miss their

3437
03:15:27,440 --> 03:15:30,237
shot, never hit the wrong thing. you you

3438
03:15:30,320 --> 03:15:34,557
you you probably more than almost any
anybody can probably understand how what

3439
03:15:34,640 --> 03:15:35,917
an incredible tool that would be.

3440
03:15:36,000 --> 03:15:39,837
>> Yeah. >> Um the problem
is that even Ivas has

3441
03:15:39,920 --> 03:15:43,837
been plagued by many of the problems
that have have hit a lot of these other

3442
03:15:43,920 --> 03:15:47,357
systems. You didn't have the backend
that could provide all of that data to

3443
03:15:47,440 --> 03:15:49,197
make it a useful thing rather than just

3444
03:15:49,280 --> 03:15:54,477
a heads-up display. You didn't have uh
the hardware working as well as it could

3445
03:15:54,560 --> 03:15:57,757
have. There were a lot of soldier
reports that it was making people sick,

3446
03:15:57,840 --> 03:16:01,197
that it was making people dizzy, that it
was causing signature problems. There

3447
03:16:01,280 --> 03:16:05,757
were quotes from soldiers in evaluations
who said this is going to get me killed.

3448
03:16:05,840 --> 03:16:07,437
Uh it was just it was running to a lot

3449
03:16:07,520 --> 03:16:11,277
of issues. Anyway, the punchline is uh

3450
03:16:11,360 --> 03:16:13,997
over the last year I've been working on

3451
03:16:14,080 --> 03:16:16,317
an angle to try and get the IVAS program

3452
03:16:16,400 --> 03:16:18,557
into a better place to try and make it

3453
03:16:18,640 --> 03:16:23,597
everything that it should be.
A few months ago, we teamed up with

3454
03:16:23,680 --> 03:16:27,597
Microsoft, which was the company that
had won the IVAS contract and that was

3455
03:16:27,680 --> 03:16:30,077
using something based on their hollow

3456
03:16:30,160 --> 03:16:32,237
lens system, which is now discontinued

3457
03:16:32,320 --> 03:16:35,277
to build the IVAS product. And we

3458
03:16:35,360 --> 03:16:39,677
partnered with them to integrate Lattis,
our AI system, with their heads-up

3459
03:16:39,760 --> 03:16:43,357
display. So, uh, we we we integrated that.
We did it very quickly. It was

3460
03:16:43,440 --> 03:16:44,877
actually a less than three-week process.

3461
03:16:44,960 --> 03:16:47,997
In 3 weeks, we went from teaming up to

3462
03:16:48,080 --> 03:16:51,277
having Lattis feeding all of our

3463
03:16:51,360 --> 03:16:55,997
three-dimensional tracking information
into their existing IV assass. We did a

3464
03:16:56,080 --> 03:16:59,757
soldier touchpoint with it. They used
it in some exercises and some in some

3465
03:16:59,840 --> 03:17:03,357
trials. They said, "Oh my god, this is
incredible. I can see drones that are

3466
03:17:03,440 --> 03:17:06,797
coming to attack me. I can see what
their attack vectors are. I can see

3467
03:17:06,880 --> 03:17:11,277
where the people controlling them are.
I can see where I need to go to be safe in

3468
03:17:11,360 --> 03:17:14,717
an amount of time that is reasonable
before that drone actually gets to me.

3469
03:17:14,800 --> 03:17:16,797
You really, really powerful stuff.

3470
03:17:16,880 --> 03:17:21,277
>> Wow. >> But here's the really big deal.

3471
03:17:21,360 --> 03:17:25,677
>> As of just about now, Andrew is taking
over the IVAS program as the prime.

3472
03:17:25,760 --> 03:17:27,597
Microsoft is transferring all of the

3473
03:17:27,680 --> 03:17:31,357
employees, hardware, IP, facilities,

3474
03:17:31,440 --> 03:17:36,317
everything to Ander. We are now going
to be the prime on the IBS program. We are

3475
03:17:36,400 --> 03:17:37,757
going to continue to integrate Lattis

3476
03:17:37,840 --> 03:17:40,477
into it and we are building

3477
03:17:40,560 --> 03:17:44,077
a totally new system on the hardware

3478
03:17:44,160 --> 03:17:45,677
side that is going to be better than

3479
03:17:45,760 --> 03:17:47,677
anything that anyone has ever seen. It

3480
03:17:47,760 --> 03:17:52,397
is going to be by far the best AR VR MR

3481
03:17:52,480 --> 03:17:56,397
vision augmentation system that has ever
been built in terms of resolution, in

3482
03:17:56,480 --> 03:18:00,237
terms of field of view, in terms
of graphical fidelity, in terms of sensor

3483
03:18:00,320 --> 03:18:02,077
quality and what you can do with those

3484
03:18:02,160 --> 03:18:06,317
sensors. It is a bigger jump from what

3485
03:18:06,400 --> 03:18:09,117
exists today than the jump that I made

3486
03:18:09,200 --> 03:18:13,117
when I started Oculus. It is

3487
03:18:13,200 --> 03:18:16,797
a jump that I think cannot be overstated.
And I am very aligned with

3488
03:18:16,880 --> 03:18:20,237
the Army's vision in terms of this being
something that should be on everybody,

3489
03:18:20,320 --> 03:18:24,157
but I think my vision goes maybe even
a little further. I don't just want this

3490
03:18:24,240 --> 03:18:26,077
on every person who's carrying a rifle.

3491
03:18:26,160 --> 03:18:30,477
I want it on every logistician, every
load master, every rotary wing pilot,

3492
03:18:30,560 --> 03:18:33,757
every fixed wing pilot. I want it
deployed with everybody across every

3493
03:18:33,840 --> 03:18:38,237
service, every branch so that every
person is eyes for everyone else. If you

3494
03:18:38,320 --> 03:18:41,037
police, >> I think that
police is going to be a

3495
03:18:41,120 --> 03:18:45,437
very interesting, it's going to be
an interesting but adjacent challenge. So,

3496
03:18:45,520 --> 03:18:47,917
for example, police, you're trying
to make something that they can wear all

3497
03:18:48,000 --> 03:18:51,117
day, every day, and they're also
interacting face to face with people.

3498
03:18:51,200 --> 03:18:53,357
Like, let me put it this way. You can't

3499
03:18:53,440 --> 03:18:58,717
put a Robocop helmet on uh on most
police officers. It's it's it's too it's

3500
03:18:58,800 --> 03:19:01,757
too heavy. It's too much protection.
and it's, you know, for what they're doing

3501
03:19:01,840 --> 03:19:06,077
dayto-day. But the software back end
is certainly going to integrate. Like I I

3502
03:19:06,160 --> 03:19:09,197
I'll give an example. I think that
probably what you're going to see on law

3503
03:19:09,280 --> 03:19:13,517
enforcement officers is going to look
more like a pair of Oakleys that is

3504
03:19:13,600 --> 03:19:16,877
still running Lattis. It's still showing
them where threats are, but it probably

3505
03:19:16,960 --> 03:19:21,597
doesn't need the ability to pick up an
attack helicopter 15 clicks out and then

3506
03:19:21,680 --> 03:19:25,357
flag them where they need to go.
Like I probably don't need that type of

3507
03:19:25,440 --> 03:19:29,197
expensive sensing on there. I probably
need things that are much more, you

3508
03:19:29,280 --> 03:19:32,557
know, of a local web. But, uh,
that's definitely going to happen and it's

3509
03:19:32,640 --> 03:19:35,917
something I'm very excited about.
Also, like you look at things like body

3510
03:19:36,000 --> 03:19:37,837
cameras. Like, you could make body

3511
03:19:37,920 --> 03:19:40,477
cameras that are way better that do 360°

3512
03:19:40,560 --> 03:19:45,117
capture. And right now, a body camera
for a law enforcement officer is really

3513
03:19:45,200 --> 03:19:48,317
just a tool that gets his ass in hot
water, right? Like that's that's

3514
03:19:48,400 --> 03:19:51,597
basically its job. Nobody

3515
03:19:51,680 --> 03:19:55,677
not enough people look at footage from
these body cams and say, "Oh, wow. this

3516
03:19:55,760 --> 03:19:58,717
guy was totally in the right in what
he did. Right? If the footage exonerates

3517
03:19:58,800 --> 03:20:01,917
their actions, then everyone ignores
it and the media says nothing. And if it

3518
03:20:02,000 --> 03:20:05,197
shows that he made any mistake, then
they're going to they're going to, you

3519
03:20:05,280 --> 03:20:08,877
know, they're going to hoist
him by his own petard.

3520
03:20:08,960 --> 03:20:13,357
What I want to see is body cameras that
are a tool that law enforcement officers

3521
03:20:13,440 --> 03:20:16,637
are excited to use. I want something
that's watching my six. I want something

3522
03:20:16,720 --> 03:20:19,597
that's watching for threats that I'm
not seeing. I want basically a guardian

3523
03:20:19,680 --> 03:20:23,837
angel on my shoulder that is able to do
what backup would normally do for me and

3524
03:20:23,920 --> 03:20:27,517
at a superhuman level. Like imagine if
you could have not just eyes in the back

3525
03:20:27,600 --> 03:20:31,677
of your head, but what if you could have
a hundred eyes all throughout your head,

3526
03:20:31,760 --> 03:20:36,157
all looking out into the world, and at
the slightest disturbance be like, "Holy

3527
03:20:36,240 --> 03:20:39,197
[__] I think someone's opening that
window and firing like they're they're

3528
03:20:39,280 --> 03:20:40,957
aiming a gun from that window." It

3529
03:20:41,040 --> 03:20:46,397
should be telling me, not like, "Hey,
you know, be aware that someone might be

3530
03:20:46,480 --> 03:20:49,517
shooting you." It should be giving you
even more direct commands than that.

3531
03:20:49,600 --> 03:20:53,997
like it should like throw a red threat
alert and show you a direction you need

3532
03:20:54,080 --> 03:20:58,077
to throw yourself immediately to not
get shot to get behind cover. Like you're

3533
03:20:58,160 --> 03:20:59,517
going to see very tight integration

3534
03:20:59,600 --> 03:21:01,277
between man and machine on these things.

3535
03:21:01,360 --> 03:21:05,517
Anyway, I Ivas is very much a war

3536
03:21:05,600 --> 03:21:09,837
fighter oriented system and it's
oriented towards the things that people

3537
03:21:09,920 --> 03:21:13,117
at the tip of the spear are doing.
I think you're going to see similar ideas

3538
03:21:13,200 --> 03:21:16,717
but oriented around maybe a different
form factor for law enforcement. What

3539
03:21:16,800 --> 03:21:18,317
does it look like? What does it look

3540
03:21:18,400 --> 03:21:22,317
like? It looks like a So, one of my

3541
03:21:22,400 --> 03:21:26,397
beliefs with the with the previous
IVAS system, uh, it was not very tightly

3542
03:21:26,480 --> 03:21:29,437
integrated into the helmet. So, you wear
your ballistic helmet and it basically

3543
03:21:29,520 --> 03:21:33,197
straps on top of it. You like clip it
on the brim here. You run a strap to the

3544
03:21:33,280 --> 03:21:36,877
back. There's a big battery packing
compute module back here. There's a big

3545
03:21:36,960 --> 03:21:39,677
sensor brim you clip onto the helmet.

3546
03:21:39,760 --> 03:21:43,437
Um, the problem when you're trying to clip

3547
03:21:43,520 --> 03:21:47,117
onto an existing system is it ends up
not very tightly integrated. lots of

3548
03:21:47,200 --> 03:21:49,437
snag points, lots of lots of snag

3549
03:21:49,520 --> 03:21:51,357
hazard. It ends up being very heavy and

3550
03:21:51,440 --> 03:21:54,237
and and misbalanced where it's really

3551
03:21:54,320 --> 03:21:58,397
really torquing your neck. The thing
that I'm building is an allup integrated

3552
03:21:58,480 --> 03:22:02,557
ballistic shell that integrates hearing
protection, hearing augmentation, vision

3553
03:22:02,640 --> 03:22:04,877
protection, vision augmentation, all

3554
03:22:04,960 --> 03:22:07,197
into one seamless ballistic shell that

3555
03:22:07,280 --> 03:22:09,757
protects you from air bursts, direct

3556
03:22:09,840 --> 03:22:12,237
fire rounds, all you blast and

3557
03:22:12,320 --> 03:22:15,117
concussion, the whole thing in one

3558
03:22:15,200 --> 03:22:17,517
integrated seamless product. And uh I'm

3559
03:22:17,600 --> 03:22:19,677
I'm not quite ready to show the actual

3560
03:22:19,760 --> 03:22:23,197
thing, but true to Anderal product

3561
03:22:23,280 --> 03:22:27,677
company fashion, we've been investing
a ton of resources in this for years at

3562
03:22:27,760 --> 03:22:32,877
this point. So I knew that I wanted this
to happen years ago. I wasn't sure if I

3563
03:22:32,960 --> 03:22:35,997
would able to make it happen, but we
started putting millions of dollars into

3564
03:22:36,080 --> 03:22:40,557
this years ago so that if it happened,
we would be ready to go and not, you

3565
03:22:40,640 --> 03:22:42,877
know, trying to catch up from the start.

3566
03:22:42,960 --> 03:22:45,517
Damn. Anyway, this [__] is going to be

3567
03:22:45,600 --> 03:22:50,317
crazy. I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty So the first
the first fully integrated system,

3568
03:22:50,400 --> 03:22:53,997
meaning it has all of the different
sensors, all of the different compute

3569
03:22:54,080 --> 03:22:57,437
and vision augmentation systems all
integrated into one thing is going to be

3570
03:22:57,520 --> 03:23:02,077
done at the end of March. So right now
we're basically in systems test where we

3571
03:23:02,160 --> 03:23:06,397
have individual systems that we are,
you know, doing doing development and

3572
03:23:06,480 --> 03:23:11,037
testing of. the first fully integrated
helmet with all of this stuff actually

3573
03:23:11,120 --> 03:23:15,357
working like actually working tied
together tied together with lattice

3574
03:23:15,440 --> 03:23:19,837
feeding tracks like that's all going
to be done in in in March and like just to

3575
03:23:19,920 --> 03:23:22,717
give you an example of how useful
this might be like if you want to mark a

3576
03:23:22,800 --> 03:23:26,397
target for somebody else you'd have to use
a laser right what if you could mark

3577
03:23:26,480 --> 03:23:30,077
it digitally and you don't emit any
signature for anyone else with nods to

3578
03:23:30,160 --> 03:23:33,597
see and what if everyone else can see it
here's an even crazier like and this is

3579
03:23:33,680 --> 03:23:36,077
when I say crazy I don't mean like
a hypothetical like you could just do this

3580
03:23:36,160 --> 03:23:40,077
with this Imagine that you're doing some
kind of pincer and you have some guys

3581
03:23:40,160 --> 03:23:42,797
over here, some guys over here. And I

3582
03:23:42,880 --> 03:23:44,797
can't see a guy behind that building,

3583
03:23:44,880 --> 03:23:48,317
but you can. If you're seeing him, it's

3584
03:23:48,400 --> 03:23:52,317
taking that track. It's taking that enemy
Mark and it's now putting it into

3585
03:23:52,400 --> 03:23:56,877
my vision. I can now see through
the building, through the wall, and I can

3586
03:23:56,960 --> 03:23:59,357
see the guy coming around
the corner before he's

3587
03:23:59,440 --> 03:24:00,717
>> So, they're all talking to each other.

3588
03:24:00,800 --> 03:24:05,117
>> They're it's all continuously.
And it's not just the helmets. You're also

3589
03:24:05,200 --> 03:24:08,957
anything that's seamed in the lattice
is talking to you. So if there's a drone

3590
03:24:09,040 --> 03:24:13,677
overhead that sees a guy five clicks
out that way coming up a hill and he's he

3591
03:24:13,760 --> 03:24:16,637
thinks he's going to set up on top
of that hill and pop you. Imagine if it

3592
03:24:16,720 --> 03:24:19,597
sees him and notifies you. You look at

3593
03:24:19,680 --> 03:24:22,477
him coming over that hill and you bring

3594
03:24:22,560 --> 03:24:27,437
your rifle on target. Literally the
moment he clears you're taking out that

3595
03:24:27,520 --> 03:24:31,997
threat. That's the type of kind
of combined sensing and combined arms

3596
03:24:32,080 --> 03:24:36,797
tactics that this enables. It's going
to make robots and people work together so

3597
03:24:36,880 --> 03:24:40,637
seamlessly like they're just one
cohesive effective unit. And like this

3598
03:24:40,720 --> 03:24:44,397
is also the way that I think you're
going to have, you know, robot dogs,

3599
03:24:44,480 --> 03:24:49,037
robot soldiers integrated with human
force. Imagine if you see a guy who's,

3600
03:24:49,120 --> 03:24:52,477
you know, running around a building,
you lose sight of him. You can't deal with

3601
03:24:52,560 --> 03:24:56,317
him cuz you've got something else. What
if I can now task another robot and say,

3602
03:24:56,400 --> 03:25:00,957
"Hey, just stay on that. Don't let
that guy get into a position where he can

3603
03:25:01,040 --> 03:25:02,637
fire at me." and if it looks like he's

3604
03:25:02,720 --> 03:25:05,197
going to let me know and we'll make him

3605
03:25:05,280 --> 03:25:08,477
a priority. Now I don't have to spend my

3606
03:25:08,560 --> 03:25:12,637
very limited vision processing and
engagement capability just tracking that

3607
03:25:12,720 --> 03:25:15,917
potential threat who might be running
away or might be just repositioning.

3608
03:25:16,000 --> 03:25:19,357
Like what isn't it great if I can just
tell the drone overhead, hey watch that

3609
03:25:19,440 --> 03:25:23,677
guy if he's really just running away in
his sandals like I don't care about that

3610
03:25:23,760 --> 03:25:26,637
right now. Maybe we're going to go track
him down later but I don't really care

3611
03:25:26,720 --> 03:25:30,717
about him right now. Today it's really
hard to make that work. You end up with

3612
03:25:30,800 --> 03:25:34,397
people getting basically pulled onto all
these different tasks and they have to

3613
03:25:34,480 --> 03:25:38,317
make split-second decisions because they
don't have unlimited bandwidth. When you

3614
03:25:38,400 --> 03:25:41,517
have computers watching all these
sensors and you have an unlimited amount

3615
03:25:41,600 --> 03:25:44,877
of attention that a computer can give,
you can have that computer doing

3616
03:25:44,960 --> 03:25:47,997
everything for you. You can say, "Watch
every single one of those windows and

3617
03:25:48,080 --> 03:25:51,357
watch every single one of those doors
and just let me know if I need to worry

3618
03:25:51,440 --> 03:25:53,357
about it." >> I got a question.

3619
03:25:53,440 --> 03:25:55,117
>> That's [__] amazing. By the way,

3620
03:25:55,200 --> 03:25:57,037
>> it's going to be so good. But would you

3621
03:25:57,120 --> 03:26:01,517
be able to would there be any way to do

3622
03:26:01,600 --> 03:26:04,477
>> let's say something
like the Bin Laden raid?

3623
03:26:04,560 --> 03:26:06,557
>> Yeah. >> Would there
be would [clears throat]

3624
03:26:06,640 --> 03:26:08,957
there be a way to integrate some type of

3625
03:26:09,040 --> 03:26:10,797
facial recognition? So if you if you

3626
03:26:10,880 --> 03:26:13,597
were if it was a a capture kill mission

3627
03:26:13,680 --> 03:26:16,797
>> or potentially a hostage rescue

3628
03:26:16,880 --> 03:26:19,357
um would would would the system would

3629
03:26:19,440 --> 03:26:24,557
there be a way to to basically identify
hey this is that's the hostage. you

3630
03:26:24,640 --> 03:26:27,437
know, that get that stuff can get tricky
depending on how they're dressed, what

3631
03:26:27,520 --> 03:26:31,677
their effort is. >> I think

3632
03:26:31,760 --> 03:26:35,117
so, I'll be honest.
I'm not a huge fan of facial recognition.

3633
03:26:35,200 --> 03:26:37,357
>> Mostly because the situations where it

3634
03:26:37,440 --> 03:26:40,797
works, I believe, are pretty limited.

3635
03:26:40,880 --> 03:26:44,237
>> And if you're wrong, >> it's
such a spooky thing. Like like what

3636
03:26:44,320 --> 03:26:49,357
if it tells you the wrong thing? Like
what what if it is wrong? How do you how

3637
03:26:49,440 --> 03:26:53,997
do you how do you delegate
responsibility for that? And uh what

3638
03:26:54,080 --> 03:26:56,637
about but but but I will tell you
this like here's how I would handle that

3639
03:26:56,720 --> 03:26:59,757
problem. I probably wouldn't
use facial recognition.

3640
03:26:59,840 --> 03:27:02,477
If I and I'm just making this up on the
fly. I haven't thought this through very

3641
03:27:02,560 --> 03:27:04,237
well. So you'll have to forgive me.

3642
03:27:04,320 --> 03:27:07,517
First of all, going into something like
the Mid Laden raid, I probably would

3643
03:27:07,600 --> 03:27:10,077
have set up drones around that whole

3644
03:27:10,160 --> 03:27:14,557
site with things like wall penetrating
radar systems that are flooding that

3645
03:27:14,640 --> 03:27:18,077
whole area with RF energy so that I can
actually see people moving around inside

3646
03:27:18,160 --> 03:27:21,917
the buildings behind the walls.
If I can do that, then I can like if I'm a

3647
03:27:22,000 --> 03:27:25,437
hostage, I can probably guess like a guy
up against the wall, you know, who's

3648
03:27:25,520 --> 03:27:28,397
staying there even when shit's going down.
Probably not someone I need to

3649
03:27:28,480 --> 03:27:31,597
worry about as much as the guys who all
of a sudden start scrambling around like

3650
03:27:31,680 --> 03:27:34,557
flies the moment that we land in the yard.
So that you're going to have a

3651
03:27:34,640 --> 03:27:37,917
pretty good idea even just from [__]
like that. But if it were me, my

3652
03:27:38,000 --> 03:27:41,517
understanding is during the Bin Laden
raid, there was a live video feed from

3653
03:27:41,600 --> 03:27:43,757
the team back all the way to the

3654
03:27:43,840 --> 03:27:46,797
situation room. Is that is that correct?

3655
03:27:46,880 --> 03:27:50,637
>> That's what That's what I hear. That's
Well, that's that's what I hear. That's

3656
03:27:50,720 --> 03:27:54,717
what I hear. I would love to see
a situation where you basically have the

3657
03:27:54,800 --> 03:27:56,877
feed from everyone's cameras being fed

3658
03:27:56,960 --> 03:27:58,797
back to a talk and you've got a bunch of

3659
03:27:58,880 --> 03:28:04,237
analysts in there who have seen this guy
a 100,000 times on every bit of one of

3660
03:28:04,320 --> 03:28:05,757
bit, you know, on all their intel.

3661
03:28:05,840 --> 03:28:08,717
They've built up pattern of life on this
guy. They know what he's wearing every

3662
03:28:08,800 --> 03:28:12,717
day when he goes to take a piss
in the yard. Like I would want a guy where

3663
03:28:12,800 --> 03:28:16,877
instead of facial recognition trying to
make a guess, I can look at somebody and

3664
03:28:16,960 --> 03:28:20,957
there's like 10 angels over my shoulder
in the form of human intel analysts

3665
03:28:21,040 --> 03:28:23,677
who'll say that's him.
That that's the guy that you want.

3666
03:28:23,760 --> 03:28:27,197
>> I mean there there could be other
things. Let's say let's let me give you

3667
03:28:27,280 --> 03:28:30,717
another example. Maybe there's a CIA
asset that's on the ground or on the

3668
03:28:30,800 --> 03:28:33,917
target at the time of the raid.
this that's going to be for us.

3669
03:28:34,000 --> 03:28:38,237
>> So, you know,
or or you have the bad guy's

3670
03:28:38,320 --> 03:28:40,717
>> phone, you know, in and it's it's just

3671
03:28:40,800 --> 03:28:43,357
constantly tracking his phone or or the

3672
03:28:43,440 --> 03:28:46,797
or the the CIS that has some type of a

3673
03:28:46,880 --> 03:28:50,797
>> some type of a beacon that appears
into the imagery. Yep. That you're looking

3674
03:28:50,880 --> 03:28:54,477
at. So, it just helps with the >>
that will definitely happen. And like if

3675
03:28:54,560 --> 03:28:58,957
you think about like uh like I think
for that like CIA asset, he's probably not

3676
03:28:59,040 --> 03:29:02,957
going to be wearing the full the system
that we're building is called eagle eye.

3677
03:29:03,040 --> 03:29:06,077
>> Um he's not going to be wearing
a full eagle-eye, you know, integrated

3678
03:29:06,160 --> 03:29:10,237
ballistic visor. Probably he's probably
wearing more something more like Oakleys

3679
03:29:10,320 --> 03:29:13,917
that just look like he's just a normal
dude, but it's presenting him with hey,

3680
03:29:14,000 --> 03:29:16,237
that's the target we're tracking him.

3681
03:29:16,320 --> 03:29:19,437
>> What I'm Maybe I'm misspeaking here. Am

3682
03:29:19,520 --> 03:29:23,837
I talking? I'm talking
about Okay, let's say

3683
03:29:23,920 --> 03:29:28,637
It's I don't know. It's it's it's the

3684
03:29:28,720 --> 03:29:32,877
target's doctor >> who
is reporting to the agency and he's

3685
03:29:32,960 --> 03:29:37,117
the one that has the go switch
that's saying he's [__] here. Yep.

3686
03:29:37,200 --> 03:29:41,437
>> Now's the time to do the hit. I'm
on target. I'm in the same room as him.

3687
03:29:41,520 --> 03:29:45,277
>> Yep. >> Don't [__] shoot me.
I look just like everybody else here.

3688
03:29:45,360 --> 03:29:49,197
>> You're saying some kind of marker
so that we know that it's super easy. I

3689
03:29:49,280 --> 03:29:53,037
mean like you basically just so like
with eagle eyee you actually have that

3690
03:29:53,120 --> 03:29:56,717
inherently all the helmets and I I can't
talk about how they do it because you

3691
03:29:56,800 --> 03:30:00,237
know >> not great
information to be out there.

3692
03:30:00,320 --> 03:30:05,437
>> There are multiple ways for the helmets
to know who is who even in really tough

3693
03:30:05,520 --> 03:30:09,117
environments without the you know
without the bad guys being able to pick

3694
03:30:09,200 --> 03:30:12,957
up on how that works. But basically,
if I'm wearing this helmet, if I look over

3695
03:30:13,040 --> 03:30:16,077
into those bushes and my guys are over
there, it's popping up their names above

3696
03:30:16,160 --> 03:30:18,077
their heads. >> Well,
I don't mean they couldn't be

3697
03:30:18,160 --> 03:30:19,597
wearing the helmet because they're under.

3698
03:30:19,680 --> 03:30:22,717
>> Yeah. And what I'm saying is it would
be trivially easy to make something where

3699
03:30:22,800 --> 03:30:25,837
if you know what the guy looks like
and like you know what he's wearing. Yeah.

3700
03:30:25,920 --> 03:30:29,197
You could have us just scanning for that
and it's looking like I'm all, you know,

3701
03:30:29,280 --> 03:30:34,477
it's like man in doctor in white lab
coat and it's like it's Dr. Far in the

3702
03:30:34,560 --> 03:30:38,637
white lab coat and he's going to be
wearing his tortois shell glasses. like

3703
03:30:38,720 --> 03:30:41,437
that is something you could definitely
do where you enter the room and it says

3704
03:30:41,520 --> 03:30:43,117
you know it outlines him in blue and it

3705
03:30:43,200 --> 03:30:47,597
says Dr. referee probably. Um the the

3706
03:30:47,680 --> 03:30:51,037
the thing no the thing is the more
>> it just makes the decision making

3707
03:30:51,120 --> 03:30:53,277
>> well the situation you're talking
about that's that that's even a little

3708
03:30:53,360 --> 03:30:56,077
different than facial recognition
specifically like I'm actually a huge

3709
03:30:56,160 --> 03:30:59,837
fan of height recognition. So one of
the thing and when I say height it's not

3710
03:30:59,920 --> 03:31:04,157
even height it's actually like skeletal
recognition. So face recognition is hard

3711
03:31:04,240 --> 03:31:07,917
because you need pretty good you need
a good capture it needs to be relatively

3712
03:31:08,000 --> 03:31:11,117
deadon. It needs to be lighting is it
is good enough. I'm a huge fan of being

3713
03:31:11,200 --> 03:31:14,717
able to differentiate between people
different people on their skeletal pose.

3714
03:31:14,800 --> 03:31:18,237
So, like if I have a drone that's way
overhead and it sees some guy walking

3715
03:31:18,320 --> 03:31:22,477
through a doorway, especially if I know
how big that doorway is, uh I can take

3716
03:31:22,560 --> 03:31:23,997
that video, run it back, and I can

3717
03:31:24,080 --> 03:31:27,277
basically build a model of how long his

3718
03:31:27,360 --> 03:31:32,397
wrist to arm joint to shoulder distances
are. And we're all different. Like,

3719
03:31:32,480 --> 03:31:34,237
we're all uneven, too. Like, my arms are

3720
03:31:34,320 --> 03:31:36,717
slightly uneven. Uh, if I can basically

3721
03:31:36,800 --> 03:31:41,357
say, "Oh, look. It's a 6' one guy with
an arm that's 2 in shorter on this side

3722
03:31:41,440 --> 03:31:43,117
and he leans a little bit to this side."

3723
03:31:43,200 --> 03:31:46,397
Like, you can be pretty freaking sure
that's the same guy that you saw get

3724
03:31:46,480 --> 03:31:51,597
into the car. Stuff like that is paired
with facial recognition a lot more

3725
03:31:51,680 --> 03:31:54,317
powerful. And what you're describing,
it's like almost like clothing

3726
03:31:54,400 --> 03:31:57,357
recognition, you know? It's like, yeah,
he's got a white lab coat, he's got the

3727
03:31:57,440 --> 03:32:01,277
glasses, and he's got the face, and he's
got the hair. And like if if you have

3728
03:32:01,360 --> 03:32:04,957
all of that but the guy is only like 4t
tall then it would say oh that's that's

3729
03:32:05,040 --> 03:32:07,997
not Dr. Fish. It doesn't I don't I
don't care what his face looks like.

3730
03:32:08,080 --> 03:32:11,597
>> Yeah. I'm just looking at like an
identifier something to identify him. It

3731
03:32:11,680 --> 03:32:14,557
shows >> now. Are you imagining and you're
imagining that this is like happening on

3732
03:32:14,640 --> 03:32:17,997
the fly like we can't give him a beacon
or something ahead of time cuz if he has

3733
03:32:18,080 --> 03:32:22,157
a beacon it's really easy. If we can give
him >> it would be easy to get an asset a

3734
03:32:22,240 --> 03:32:24,077
beacon. >> If I can give
him you could implant

3735
03:32:24,160 --> 03:32:28,317
something in the inside of them. You
could you could give him a water bottle,

3736
03:32:28,400 --> 03:32:30,717
you know, that has something
in it or I don't know

3737
03:32:30,800 --> 03:32:33,837
>> honestly like there's there's so many
ways. So I mentioned like hyperspectral

3738
03:32:33,920 --> 03:32:38,477
vision using hyper spectral cameras you
can look at things and they can tell you

3739
03:32:38,560 --> 03:32:41,837
what it is made out of based on its
spectral response across multiple

3740
03:32:41,920 --> 03:32:46,557
frequencies. So you can say like that
is stone that is glass and they you can

3741
03:32:46,640 --> 03:32:49,917
have you ever seen hyperspectral cameras
that are used for detecting drugs? They

3742
03:32:50,000 --> 03:32:53,277
can just look at something
and like that's cocaine.

3743
03:32:53,360 --> 03:32:57,037
>> It's really wild. There have
been attempts in the past to use

3744
03:32:57,120 --> 03:33:01,277
hyperspectral cameras for doing covert
marking of vehicles. So like you'll have

3745
03:33:01,360 --> 03:33:04,317
an operative walk by a car and they
basically take a piece of invisible

3746
03:33:04,400 --> 03:33:07,997
paint that you can't see with your human
eye and they just like smear a line

3747
03:33:08,080 --> 03:33:12,317
along the hood as they walk by and it
looks just like a smear of, you know,

3748
03:33:12,400 --> 03:33:16,157
dirt to a normal person. But on a
hyperspectral camera, it shows up as a

3749
03:33:16,240 --> 03:33:19,037
bright orange streak on it. You could
just say like, "Hey, I'm going to give

3750
03:33:19,120 --> 03:33:22,877
you a hyper like a pen made out of
hyperspectral stuff. I mean, like out of

3751
03:33:22,960 --> 03:33:26,077
a weirdo material, like basically
a chemical you would not normally see in a

3752
03:33:26,160 --> 03:33:29,197
pen, you could say, "I'm going to give
you these eyeglasses." Or honestly, you

3753
03:33:29,280 --> 03:33:32,477
could give them some makeup. You could
have them smear some, you know, some of

3754
03:33:32,560 --> 03:33:36,477
the right compound on their head and you
could have a system just see that and

3755
03:33:36,560 --> 03:33:40,317
say, "Oh, it's it like that that that
it's that guy. Don't we're going to

3756
03:33:40,400 --> 03:33:43,277
outline anyone who has this [__]
on their forehead. We're going to outline

3757
03:33:43,360 --> 03:33:46,957
their whole body in blue as a as a
hostage." There's a lot of interesting

3758
03:33:47,040 --> 03:33:49,597
things you can do there.
>> I haven't thought that much about these

3759
03:33:49,680 --> 03:33:53,037
applications. I got to admit I've I've
mostly been thinking about it from a you

3760
03:33:53,120 --> 03:33:56,397
know more big army versus
you know special tactics.

3761
03:33:56,480 --> 03:33:59,117
>> I mean it'd be I mean you
know well that's the world I come

3762
03:33:59,200 --> 03:34:01,677
>> we have we'll have to bring
you out once we have the

3763
03:34:01,760 --> 03:34:05,757
>> bring out function to help develop it.

3764
03:34:05,840 --> 03:34:10,717
>> We well the cool thing is I talked
earlier about lattice the goal is to

3765
03:34:10,800 --> 03:34:13,597
take and like maybe you can see where
like my my grand scheme is all coming

3766
03:34:13,680 --> 03:34:16,557
together here like when I started
and we said we're going to save taxpayers

3767
03:34:16,640 --> 03:34:19,997
hundreds hundreds of billions of dollars.
We're gonna make our war

3768
03:34:20,080 --> 03:34:23,357
fighters into unstoppable technommancers.
And we literally said

3769
03:34:23,440 --> 03:34:27,757
we're going to build augmented reality
heads-up displays, fighter jets, smart

3770
03:34:27,840 --> 03:34:30,477
cruise missiles. Like the things we're
building today are literally what we

3771
03:34:30,560 --> 03:34:34,520
said we were going to build 8 years ago.

3772
03:34:34,960 --> 03:34:37,757
But remember I talked earlier about how
Lattis, we're basically taking all this

3773
03:34:37,840 --> 03:34:41,277
expertise of the world's best operators
and boiling it down into an AI model

3774
03:34:41,360 --> 03:34:43,357
that can help you. Imagine if you're an

3775
03:34:43,440 --> 03:34:45,597
operator who's wearing something like

3776
03:34:45,680 --> 03:34:49,037
eagle eye and imagine if I not only have

3777
03:34:49,120 --> 03:34:53,997
a system that is watching my six
and telling me what's going on. Imagine if

3778
03:34:54,080 --> 03:34:55,837
it can look at an aircraft that's coming

3779
03:34:55,920 --> 03:34:58,157
to engage us

3780
03:34:58,240 --> 03:35:01,357
and then it also like on board the AI

3781
03:35:01,440 --> 03:35:06,237
has the expertise of the world's best
fighter pilots. Like isn't that extraord

3782
03:35:06,320 --> 03:35:09,997
your best rotary wing pilots like
by building all this expertise in you're

3783
03:35:10,080 --> 03:35:13,357
potentially building a guardian angel
that is like the superhuman super

3784
03:35:13,440 --> 03:35:17,757
intelligent thing. Like imagine
we can look at it and says oh [__]

3785
03:35:17,840 --> 03:35:21,757
that's a Russian pilot based on the you
know tactics that it's observing or the

3786
03:35:21,840 --> 03:35:25,357
way that it's working. says, "Oh,
he's going to come back around to do a low

3787
03:35:25,440 --> 03:35:29,757
attack run." Like, this stuff is way
beyond just, "Oh, there's a dot and

3788
03:35:29,840 --> 03:35:33,837
there's the enemy." If you have
the world's best expertise of the world's

3789
03:35:33,920 --> 03:35:38,237
best warfighters distilled into one
super AI, it's like you're rolling

3790
03:35:38,320 --> 03:35:41,997
around with a whole team of experts
sitting on your shoulder telling you

3791
03:35:42,080 --> 03:35:46,237
what might happen next. And that's just
I'm I'm so excited to live in that world

3792
03:35:46,320 --> 03:35:49,677
because I I imagine that's not the world
you live in, right? Like, or lived in.

3793
03:35:49,760 --> 03:35:52,957
like I bet there were plenty of things
you did where you said, "Man, I wish

3794
03:35:53,040 --> 03:35:54,877
that we had the world's leading expert

3795
03:35:54,960 --> 03:36:00,317
on X, Y, or Z here with me to tell me
what was going on." And uh and so like

3796
03:36:00,400 --> 03:36:03,757
you you've probably played with the AI
stuff where you're like, "Hey, like you

3797
03:36:03,840 --> 03:36:06,637
know who won the 1960 World Series?"

3798
03:36:06,720 --> 03:36:09,037
Like that's that's that's fine, but what

3799
03:36:09,120 --> 03:36:12,477
if you could say, "Hey, how do I defuse

3800
03:36:12,560 --> 03:36:16,557
this bomb?" like or like like like or

3801
03:36:16,640 --> 03:36:19,837
like imagine like seeing a vehicle be like

3802
03:36:19,920 --> 03:36:23,917
how do I hotwire this caram >>
and if it can just have all of that on

3803
03:36:24,000 --> 03:36:28,397
tap for you and say oh well e either
here's how to do it or just say you're

3804
03:36:28,480 --> 03:36:31,437
[__] out of luck you can't hotwire this
car in the 5 minutes that you have you

3805
03:36:31,520 --> 03:36:35,277
need to move on really excited about
living in a world where everyone's

3806
03:36:35,360 --> 03:36:38,637
working with access to the best
information >> I need one of these helmets

3807
03:36:38,720 --> 03:36:41,997
>> we're gonna [laughter] so it's
interesting this is a little bit of an

3808
03:36:42,080 --> 03:36:46,157
off-topic bit People have internally
been discussing this. Are we going to

3809
03:36:46,240 --> 03:36:48,637
sell this to civilians? And it's one of

3810
03:36:48,720 --> 03:36:51,117
those really shitty situations. Like I'm

3811
03:36:51,200 --> 03:36:54,157
a gun owner. I own about 400 guns and I

3812
03:36:54,240 --> 03:36:57,917
own a bunch of other gun related type

3813
03:36:58,000 --> 03:36:59,677
systems as well. So like I'm I'm I'm

3814
03:36:59,760 --> 03:37:02,317
really down the rabbit hole.

3815
03:37:02,400 --> 03:37:07,277
And I'm a big fan of weapons companies,
especially gun companies, that sell the

3816
03:37:07,360 --> 03:37:10,157
same things to the military that they
sell to civilians. That that's great.

3817
03:37:10,240 --> 03:37:12,877
Like I I I hate it when they say, "Oh,
we're not going to sell this to you.

3818
03:37:12,960 --> 03:37:16,077
We're only going to support
the government." The problem and I when I

3819
03:37:16,160 --> 03:37:19,517
was like when I was not in the defense
space, I was always pissed about this.

3820
03:37:19,600 --> 03:37:23,277
I'm like, "How dare they not sell me the
cool shit?" Like, "How dare they not do

3821
03:37:23,360 --> 03:37:26,877
that?" But then I'm realizing
anything that I sell to civilians, I'm

3822
03:37:26,960 --> 03:37:31,757
effectively also selling to Chinese
special forces, to Russian commandos.

3823
03:37:31,840 --> 03:37:34,397
>> Now, I'm not saying that you'll be able
to that they'll be able to get enough to

3824
03:37:34,480 --> 03:37:38,637
out their whole force. But anything you
sell to civilians is eventually going to

3825
03:37:38,720 --> 03:37:42,957
get sold to a traitorous American.
It happens way too often. I hate that it

3826
03:37:43,040 --> 03:37:46,237
happens, but you've read these stories,
right? You know, some guy sells on eBay

3827
03:37:46,320 --> 03:37:50,637
night vision that is top-of-the-line
night vision to like literal Russian

3828
03:37:50,720 --> 03:37:55,677
Russian cutouts. >> And so
I'm I I would hate to pro build

3829
03:37:55,760 --> 03:38:00,157
this incredible capability and then all
of a sudden it's in the hands of the top

3830
03:38:00,240 --> 03:38:04,317
tier units that we're potentially going
to be fighting against. And also I don't

3831
03:38:04,400 --> 03:38:06,877
want them reverse engineering it. Like
I don't want them using it and learning

3832
03:38:06,960 --> 03:38:09,837
how it works, learning whatever
my problems like because there will be

3833
03:38:09,920 --> 03:38:13,597
problems. I am going to do my very
best to minimize the impact of those

3834
03:38:13,680 --> 03:38:17,677
problems. Like I I know I'm something
is going to be wrong with our system. I

3835
03:38:17,760 --> 03:38:21,997
would prefer that I don't have a bunch
of you know Russian cues walking around

3836
03:38:22,080 --> 03:38:25,037
and trying it every day and realizing
that there's a way to for example you

3837
03:38:25,120 --> 03:38:28,557
know trick the Dr. Farage facial
recognition so that it swaps the two

3838
03:38:28,640 --> 03:38:31,117
things. Not that I'm
not that I'm going to let

3839
03:38:31,200 --> 03:38:34,797
it do that anyway, but you you get what
I'm saying. So, I've been struggling

3840
03:38:34,880 --> 03:38:38,397
with this. I want to sell to civilians,
but I also know that the national

3841
03:38:38,480 --> 03:38:41,917
security impact is actually material
and real, and I haven't figured out how to

3842
03:38:42,000 --> 03:38:45,757
reconcile that yet. One would be
to like sell a more limited version to

3843
03:38:45,840 --> 03:38:50,317
civilians. Um, you know, maybe it
doesn't do everything. Like you probably

3844
03:38:50,400 --> 03:38:52,157
don't want the civilian version to

3845
03:38:52,240 --> 03:38:54,157
include the model that includes the

3846
03:38:54,240 --> 03:38:57,357
weapons tactics advice of the best

3847
03:38:57,440 --> 03:39:01,597
master chiefs and the best pilots
and the best admirals of you know history,

3848
03:39:01,680 --> 03:39:04,957
right? Like that's probably dangerous
thing for our allies to or for our

3849
03:39:05,040 --> 03:39:09,277
adversaries to have. >> Um you
probably don't want it to be able

3850
03:39:09,360 --> 03:39:11,917
>> to it take about 5 seconds and it's in

3851
03:39:12,000 --> 03:39:16,397
cartels hands. I had I yeah it had not
even run through my mind now but like

3852
03:39:16,480 --> 03:39:20,557
that's another thing we you we do a lot
of work with CBP uh we actually have our

3853
03:39:20,640 --> 03:39:25,037
AI power so our lattice sentry towers
are along about 30% of the border now

3854
03:39:25,120 --> 03:39:29,197
we're covering hundreds of miles we are
responsible for hundreds of thousands of

3855
03:39:29,280 --> 03:39:31,517
apprehensions that would not
have happened otherwise >> wow

3856
03:39:31,600 --> 03:39:34,077
>> I am so proud of the work that we do

3857
03:39:34,160 --> 03:39:38,637
with border patrol and could you imagine
if they start going up against cartels

3858
03:39:38,720 --> 03:39:40,317
who have helmets telling them how to

3859
03:39:40,400 --> 03:39:42,797
evade our systems

3860
03:39:42,880 --> 03:39:48,077
how best to bypass them, sharing
tactics on when to send decoys across to

3861
03:39:48,160 --> 03:39:51,757
distract them and saying, "Okay, based
on the average transit speed of a Humvey

3862
03:39:51,840 --> 03:39:55,517
in this terrain, we think you have 16
minutes before they are able to get line

3863
03:39:55,600 --> 03:39:58,477
of sight on you." Like, that's what I
want to be doing. And I I don't want to

3864
03:39:58,560 --> 03:40:00,237
just tell soldiers what's happening now.

3865
03:40:00,320 --> 03:40:02,957
I want to tell them what's probably
going to happen. I want to do predictive

3866
03:40:03,040 --> 03:40:07,117
analysis and use data processing to say,
"Hey, like based on what we've seen in

3867
03:40:07,200 --> 03:40:10,957
the past, tactics we've seen for the
from this enemy in the past, this is

3868
03:40:11,040 --> 03:40:13,917
what they're going to be doing 10
minutes from now. I do not want the

3869
03:40:14,000 --> 03:40:19,277
cartels having that shit." >> Could you
imagine if you were to say to Facebook?

3870
03:40:19,360 --> 03:40:24,157
[laughter] >> What do you mean there?
You mean this wouldn't be happening?

3871
03:40:24,240 --> 03:40:28,077
>> It's an interesting thing to ponder,
but you know, Mark's come around. Mark's

3872
03:40:28,160 --> 03:40:32,077
based now. It's pretty interesting to
watch. Sure. You've you've you've you've

3873
03:40:32,160 --> 03:40:34,717
you you've you've seen this going
on for >> Oh, yeah. I've seen it.

3874
03:40:34,800 --> 03:40:37,677
>> It's a it it's I
think it's a reflection

3875
03:40:37,760 --> 03:40:40,957
of a lot of things, you know, like the
world's changing. It's clear China's not

3876
03:40:41,040 --> 03:40:44,637
our friend. It's clear they're not
the friend of our corporations. Uh it's

3877
03:40:44,720 --> 03:40:48,717
clear that there's crazy people running
our media, crazy people running our

3878
03:40:48,800 --> 03:40:51,197
politics. And eventually people who are

3879
03:40:51,280 --> 03:40:56,797
smart, and Zuck is smart, right? He's
not he's not an idiot. At some point you

3880
03:40:56,880 --> 03:41:00,797
at some point you come out of the matrix,
right? And I I think that's

3881
03:41:00,880 --> 03:41:02,957
>> what I meant was Android
and Android would

3882
03:41:03,040 --> 03:41:04,317
>> Oh, you mean if I wouldn't have started

3883
03:41:04,400 --> 03:41:08,077
on Oculus 100%. I I mean, I don't want

3884
03:41:08,160 --> 03:41:10,077
to I don't want to complain too much

3885
03:41:10,160 --> 03:41:12,797
here, but one of my biggest beefs with

3886
03:41:12,880 --> 03:41:16,477
the US defensive system is I could not

3887
03:41:16,560 --> 03:41:19,197
have started Androll before Oculus. I've

3888
03:41:19,280 --> 03:41:21,117
only been successful with Andre because

3889
03:41:21,200 --> 03:41:23,917
I'd already made billions of dollars at

3890
03:41:24,000 --> 03:41:26,237
another company. And that's kind of an

3891
03:41:26,320 --> 03:41:29,037
indictment of our system. If you look at

3892
03:41:29,120 --> 03:41:33,837
history, we have a long history as a
country of finding the best technology

3893
03:41:33,920 --> 03:41:38,237
wherever it is and then building those
people and those technology up into

3894
03:41:38,320 --> 03:41:41,037
incredible parts of our war fighting
apparatus. Are you familiar with like uh

3895
03:41:41,120 --> 03:41:43,357
the Samuel Colt story? >> No.

3896
03:41:43,440 --> 03:41:47,357
>> Or Smith and Wesson. So like Sam Colt

3897
03:41:47,440 --> 03:41:49,677
was about to go bankrupt for the second

3898
03:41:49,760 --> 03:41:52,637
time when he was handmaking revolvers

3899
03:41:52,720 --> 03:41:55,837
out of the back of a covered wagon. And

3900
03:41:55,920 --> 03:41:59,277
then he got a order from the Texas

3901
03:41:59,360 --> 03:42:01,677
Rangers for like two dozen of his

3902
03:42:01,760 --> 03:42:03,757
pistols. That paid his bills for the

3903
03:42:03,840 --> 03:42:06,317
year. And then after that, the United

3904
03:42:06,400 --> 03:42:10,237
States Army adopted his revolver as the

3905
03:42:10,320 --> 03:42:13,997
standard service weapon because it
was so obviously superior to anything else

3906
03:42:14,080 --> 03:42:16,797
that had come come before. So like the

3907
03:42:16,880 --> 03:42:18,317
sick shooter of the time was an

3908
03:42:18,400 --> 03:42:22,637
extraordinary sidearm. And he went in

3909
03:42:22,720 --> 03:42:27,597
his life from almost being bankrupt
working out of a covered wagon to arming

3910
03:42:27,680 --> 03:42:29,597
the entire Western world with his

3911
03:42:29,680 --> 03:42:33,757
weapons. Like the designs that he made

3912
03:42:33,840 --> 03:42:38,317
went from out of the back of a wagon
to literally tens of millions of units

3913
03:42:38,400 --> 03:42:42,317
spread across America and Europe
defending defending America against

3914
03:42:42,400 --> 03:42:46,637
Nazis and the Japanese. Like, isn't
that just like insane? Isn't Isn't that

3915
03:42:46,720 --> 03:42:51,197
amazing that our country used to be
able to have those stories of finding the

3916
03:42:51,280 --> 03:42:55,197
right guy? And so my like my question to
people is always could the United States

3917
03:42:55,280 --> 03:42:57,677
military effectively buy something even

3918
03:42:57,760 --> 03:42:59,837
if it was a game changer from Palmer

3919
03:42:59,920 --> 03:43:03,517
Lucky of 2011 back when I was a teenager

3920
03:43:03,600 --> 03:43:06,957
building Oculus. If I had gone
to the military and said, "I've changed

3921
03:43:07,040 --> 03:43:10,397
everything. I've built a VR headset that
is better, faster, cheaper by an order

3922
03:43:10,480 --> 03:43:15,597
of magnitude. It's $300 and it's better
than your best $300,000 headset and a

3923
03:43:15,680 --> 03:43:18,317
tenth of the weight. Do you think they
would have been able to buy it or use

3924
03:43:18,400 --> 03:43:20,557
it? Like, no. We It's this muscle we

3925
03:43:20,640 --> 03:43:22,237
used to have that we've lost as a

3926
03:43:22,320 --> 03:43:26,157
country where we're only willing to bet

3927
03:43:26,240 --> 03:43:30,717
on people who have already made it,
companies that are already big. Nobody

3928
03:43:30,800 --> 03:43:34,237
wants to take any risk. And in doing so,
they take more risk than they ever

3929
03:43:34,320 --> 03:43:37,437
should. You know, a bureaucrat doesn't
want to risk his job. So, instead, he

3930
03:43:37,520 --> 03:43:41,277
just risks our national security. It's
it's and so my the point I always make

3931
03:43:41,360 --> 03:43:44,237
to people is we need to fix
our procurement system so that the Palmer

3932
03:43:44,320 --> 03:43:46,877
Lucky of 2011

3933
03:43:46,960 --> 03:43:49,437
can successfully sell into the military.

3934
03:43:49,520 --> 03:43:53,517
We should not pat ourselves in the back
because and people are they're saying oh

3935
03:43:53,600 --> 03:43:55,677
well I'm so glad things are changing.

3936
03:43:55,760 --> 03:43:58,797
The success of Androl shows that we're
really getting our [__] together. I'm

3937
03:43:58,880 --> 03:44:02,317
like, guys, like that's a good first step,
but let's not pat ourselves in the

3938
03:44:02,400 --> 03:44:04,957
back for a billionaire successfully

3939
03:44:05,040 --> 03:44:08,157
starting a new company, right? If if

3940
03:44:08,240 --> 03:44:11,997
America, like that is not the problem
America has is that billionaires aren't

3941
03:44:12,080 --> 03:44:14,557
good at starting companies. Like if
you have a billion dollars, you can do

3942
03:44:14,640 --> 03:44:17,437
whatever you want. You can start an ice
cream company, you can start a defense

3943
03:44:17,520 --> 03:44:21,997
company, but we need we need to we need
to open it up to a lot more innovation

3944
03:44:22,080 --> 03:44:24,157
that doesn't come from people like me.

3945
03:44:24,240 --> 03:44:26,877
>> Man, I love that you
just said that. And

3946
03:44:26,960 --> 03:44:31,277
uh I got to be honest there. I had a lot
more that I want to talk with you, but I

3947
03:44:31,360 --> 03:44:35,677
think this is the perfect I think this
is the perfect place to end this. And um

3948
03:44:35,760 --> 03:44:38,637
>> well, it's an important one. And I
hope that people who are listening are

3949
03:44:38,720 --> 03:44:42,317
considering working on national
security problems because

3950
03:44:42,400 --> 03:44:46,797
>> even if you think that you are not
relevant or not helpful, you're probably

3951
03:44:46,880 --> 03:44:50,637
wrong. Like if you are good with
computers, there are places that

3952
03:44:50,720 --> 03:44:54,077
desperately need you. If you are good
at metallurgy, mechanical engineering,

3953
03:44:54,160 --> 03:44:57,677
electrical engineering, there are places
that desperately need you. If you're

3954
03:44:57,760 --> 03:45:02,077
just good at talking and good at sales,
there are places that desperately need

3955
03:45:02,160 --> 03:45:06,957
you. Like there's there's a a whole new
wave of new defense companies that are

3956
03:45:07,040 --> 03:45:08,957
nipping at the heels of the big guys.

3957
03:45:09,040 --> 03:45:11,037
Now is a great time for someone who

3958
03:45:11,120 --> 03:45:13,437
cares about the future of our country to

3959
03:45:13,520 --> 03:45:18,957
shift out of, you know, building parking
apps and into building things that are

3960
03:45:19,040 --> 03:45:22,237
going to keep people from getting their
heads blown off, right? That that that

3961
03:45:22,320 --> 03:45:23,997
is where we need our best and brightest.

3962
03:45:24,080 --> 03:45:26,477
And uh it feels it feels like I hate I

3963
03:45:26,560 --> 03:45:29,357
hate to be uh I hate to be mimemetically

3964
03:45:29,440 --> 03:45:33,677
aligned to this degree, but the vibe
shift is real. Like I I think people

3965
03:45:33,760 --> 03:45:34,717
should take advantage of that.

3966
03:45:34,800 --> 03:45:37,037
>> Definitely is. Definitely is.
Would you come back?

3967
03:45:37,120 --> 03:45:40,957
>> 100%. This has been a lot of fun and I
got to I got to get you into an eagle

3968
03:45:41,040 --> 03:45:43,117
eye though. >> I would love that.

3969
03:45:43,200 --> 03:45:45,997
>> We'll let you know as soon as it's
as soon as it's uh as soon as it's cleared

3970
03:45:46,080 --> 03:45:48,957
by as soon as it's cleared by the army
for us to start showing people.

3971
03:45:49,040 --> 03:45:52,317
>> Perfect. Well, we won't release that.
We won't release this until the

3972
03:45:52,400 --> 03:45:54,557
announcement comes. >> Perfect.
And I I and I think it will

3973
03:45:54,640 --> 03:45:58,237
come in time. I'm I'm tell I'm telling
you ahead of the announcement, but the

3974
03:45:58,320 --> 03:46:02,157
announcement I believe is going to get
cleared by the customer before before

3975
03:46:02,240 --> 03:46:03,757
this airs. So fingers crossed.

3976
03:46:03,840 --> 03:46:06,077
>> Perfect. All right. Well, Palmer, I

3977
03:46:06,160 --> 03:46:08,637
really appreciate you and [gasps]

3978
03:46:08,720 --> 03:46:14,157
damn, what a fascinating interview.
I'm just Wow. Wow. It

3979
03:46:14,240 --> 03:46:18,360
>> was a lot of fun. >> Thank you.

3980
03:46:24,200 --> 03:46:26,220
[music]