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It's a risk our next guest has been
warning the tech industry about for

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months. His company writing in June,
"Your AI sovereignty dictates your

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institution's future." Here with us now
at Post 9 in a CNBC exclusive interview

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with Palantir [music] co-founder and CEO
Alex Karp. Welcome back. It's good to

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see you. >> Delighted
to be here. You know, I've

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been here many times with you. And you
guys are tough, but among my favorites.

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>> Okay, well, thank you. >> uh >>
Well, we're excited to talk to you

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because this is a really important week.

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And there's been this explosion of AI
safety warnings. Where do you stand on

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all of it? >> so okay, Palantir we've been
we've been in the forefront of using AI

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in the military context, the first
company to build actually a functional

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AI technology. As is currently well known,
we're dominating the application

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space. We have a product. So, there's
a lot of we have a lot of experience with

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like what works, what doesn't. There are
really different kinds of safety issues,

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quite frankly. Um

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almost all my we dominate US commercial

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as a company, and the clients,
our partners, are livid at

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this kind of safety they're most upset
about. What they believe is the theft of

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their alpha, meaning their ideas about
how to run a business, their data, it

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landing in a model, and they find out
that the the competitor next door has

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all their alpha, meaning how they do their
business, and they paid for it. I mean,

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I can't repeat what the customers are
saying, but they're basically like one

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to give you the one that was
the least vulgar, it's like, but

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but how can they tell me not to wear
a condom? Like, this is This is And that's

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the least vulgar person that we deal with.
They're like livid. And so,

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they're livid. So, that's >> Wait,
what? Can you just like translate

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what you're talking about? So, is this
because of the LLM's fault they're sharing

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>> No, no.
Open The reason why the sovereignty

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revolution, which we helped launch

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together with our our partner
Jensen Huang, the in

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famous

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founder and head of Nvidia is uh um

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the when you use a closed model and you
pay for tokens, you're not The reason

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the tokens are discounted is not so
they can grow the market. It They're

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discounted so that they can get access
to your IP so that their models get

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better. And there was functionally
no honest conversation about this or

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disclosure. Now, that's point one. Point
two is without an application layer and

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without post training, which
is currently being done with open

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way models, you in the
classified side and it's just

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taking off across America cuz it's

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cheaper and ends up being safer and you

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control your future and your present. Um

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you are de facto outsourcing the value
in there. By the way, it's very much

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linked to the safety concerns.
Now, Dario is one of the most important

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entrepreneurs. I've been at this for a
long time. I've never seen anyone come

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from the back >> you like him.

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>> I I have a lot of respect for him. And
I have a lot of respect for him because

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he's actually believes of course he's
a business person to most sometimes. So,

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of course when the company's not doing
as well, these things come forward and

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then they talk about safety and when
it's doing better, they they they

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I I I don't think that's actually what's
driving this, but you know, I mean it

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does happen regularly. But I think the
you know, he's what makes him so strong

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is he's ethical and a business person.

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Okay, so um but but but what's
actually happening is

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very different than what people are
reporting. Everyone thinks this is a

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safety versus non-safety versus
regulation. What What What he I believe

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is realized is it if you if take the

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a philosophical frame they have which is
we are deserving of having all the IP in

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the world, we the thousand
people who think the way we do,

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uh that's why you can't work with the
military. That's why you can take the IP

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from businesses and put it in your model.

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That That model would require severe

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liability protection.
And there's only one institution that

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can do that, the US government. And then
that's before you get to the danger. So,

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what was really happening
is the investors loved when he was

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migrating all the value of everyone
else's business to their business cuz

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they're investors.
They don't realize it's like it's like

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every mark. They don't realize they're
the mark because now you first you

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migrate all the IP to your business
and then because you would need uncap you

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need cap liability both
vis-a-vis the business and

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vis-a-vis the dangers, you've got
to migrate the business to the government.

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It has to be nationalized. So, what's
actually happening is this is reported

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as regulation non-regulation movement.

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That's actually not what this movement is.
It's like the view that I believe

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they have is these businesses have
to be nationalized because if you don't

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nationalize them, every single
one of my clients is going to sue.

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>> That you think that's what they want?

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>> Well, obviously, like if you have a

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business that presupposes unlimited risk

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both vis-a-vis liability risk vis-a-vis
the clients cuz I don't think any of our

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clients realize their IP was migrating.

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Vis-a-vis the world because you're
saying what is the liability risk for

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destroying 10% of the company?
10% of the world. It's discounted into the

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present. Okay, but there's only one
institution. And by the way, that's not

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actually what's happening. They want
three institutions. It's going to be

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like Europe, Canada, and America. We

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migrate all the IP of America from our
businesses to this institution. Then the

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institution is going to get full liability
protection because it's nationalized.

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>> think Open AI wants
this and what about this?

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>> very No, I think I think these are
very different things, but I think that is

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the core philosophy of the EA
movement imposed upon a business.

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>> EA effective altruism. >> so
that's actually what is driving this.

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Now, of course, the other model
companies have very different I think

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what most what what they want
is and I think is we first we should

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self-regulate. If you do not
self-responsibly self-regulate. By the

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way, though, the biggest danger
currently of this revolution is that it

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generates inescapably I
think it will raise the

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votes of most people but you can't have
a revolution where I become 50 times

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wealthier and everyone else becomes 10%

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wealthier. It's going to drive political
insanity. Political insanity, what does

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that look like? It looks like obviously
wealthy people should pay more than fair

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their their share of the taxes but a
wealth tax kills entrepreneurship. It

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actually is it by the way it's
massively beneficial to me.

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>> How do you share the benefits?

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>> So you have to find ways to actually
tax at the high end that that aren't a

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wealth tax. There are ways to do this.
I think the way you do it is you tie

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reduction of waste fraud and abuse to

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increase taxes among the very wealthy.

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So but in any case you you have to you
you the other political insanity and

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then realize the financial thing is look
at the far right and far left in this

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country. This is directly tied to the
fact that many people are like screw

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this. I don't want these people becoming
a hundred times wealthier. I'm going to

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blow up the whole system. What does that
blowing up the whole system looks like?

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It looks like DSA people who are very
happy to talk about how they're not

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anti-Jewish. They love that. They
don't like to talk about how they're not

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anti-black cuz that's something they hide.
You have the far right. It's like

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everything is a data center run
by somebody. It's like they attack us for

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running data. We don't even build data
centers. [laughter] We get attacked. So

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that is like and by the way the one
of the biggest mistakes the labs

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have made is we are in competition
with China. Some people think they're

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enemies. Some people think they're
competitors. Pick your spectrum.

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Either we are going to win and provide
the stack to the world and stack doesn't

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mean you have to take the whole part
or if they're going to win. And that means

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the the danger is not just a danger
of dangerous things happening to humanity

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which by the way what business isn't
responsible for minding your own safety?

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You can't go to a what you know another
reason our customers are livid is like

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they build chemicals >> a whole
new frontier, right? When

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they're talking about the safety of

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humanity and creating a technology and

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AI that can break free this misalignment

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from human intention and then do
really bad stuff to us. I mean, that's a

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societal issue, isn't it? >> Of course
it's a societal issue, but you

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>> You think they can self-regulate that?

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>> Well, you have to find a way to set
reasonable guidelines that are enforced,

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but you can't do it. The first line
of defense is you're liable for your own

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actions. So, it's it's a weird twist.

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They're asking for societal regulation
to get out of the first line of defense,

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which is if you build a technology
that can destroy 10% of the of of of the

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world. That is a that
has civil and criminal

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liability attached to it. The first step
is to say, "Okay, it is not The first

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step isn't to say we get out of it
because we want to self-regulate or we

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want regulation." The first step is to
say, "Okay, you've disclosed this. What

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are you doing about it?" >> Right.

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>> And the second step is to say,
"If you're not doing any you're not being

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responsible, we're we're going to have
to get people involved." That's going to

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be also very complicated because
regulating these things need people. You

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need people who understand them. Another
problem we have is seemingly everyone

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who understands this is on some payroll.

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So, it's like, you know, it's like who
you're going to trust? You know, when we

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built nuclear energy, we built the bomb.

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People did it because they believed.

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They were not on the payroll.
>> Um this the liability that you're

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talking about, how does that get written
into the S-1? What do risk factors sound

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like? >> This is the thing.
You're assuming that

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there will be an S-1. Now, I don't Okay,
maybe there will be. The only way to

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deal with this kind of liability
is to go to the government and say,

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"Nationalize us, please." You know,
a lot of times in business people don't

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say what they want. They're leading you
to the conclusion. The reason why people

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don't have not understood this is again,
every investor, and there are a lot of

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people who think they're going to make
money. They're like, "Oh, the businesses

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are the mark."
What is the first lesson in poker and in

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life? If you you you think the other

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person's the mark, you're the mark.

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You are the mark.
And it will be nationalized simply

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because of the liability
issues they're talking about.

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>> the Trump administration's
going to get on board with that?

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>> I don't know what they're going to do,
and I think that's probably a barrier to

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entry, but it it's like you can delay it.
You have to There's only one When

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you have unlimited liability, the only
way to deal with it would be to go to

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the government and say, "We'll give
you 50% of our business." Of course, the

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value of the business will collapse
first when you do that, collapse another

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time when you have people on the board,
collapse another time. All of us might

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even collapse the whole market, but you
That is the way you essentially But

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again, you have to look at the
philosophy of it. Again, this is where

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the investors have just made such a big
mistake with their greed. Like, a little

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bit of greed is great, but like it's
like No, they didn't mind when the when

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the when the IP is being migrated from

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every business to an entity they own.

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But the next step is obviously to take
that value and migrate it to the

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government. But oh,
that would never happen to me.

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And like And again, this is where I have
tremendous respect for people like that

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because he's thinking ethically
according to his ethical frame. He's not

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thinking primarily financially. This
is what's made him such a great business

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leader. This is the reason
why the best engineers

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researchers want to work for him. It's
the reason why he came from fifth behind

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to number one. This is a very, very

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smart, shrewd, ethical person. The

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ethical frame is different than the frame
most of us have, which is we need

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to share wealth, we need to expand the

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wealth, we need to diverse put more

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diversity in terms of who owns and who

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regulates and who controls and

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if it started in America, it could have
only been built in America, only America

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would have allowed you to buy it,
only America provided the regulatory

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framework where this could have happened.

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America should be the final arbiter
of it in the military and in regulation,

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and that's exactly what they do not want.

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>> It sounds like you think his examples
of potential harm, right, disabling the

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internet, You think those are
in the realm of the possible. You're not

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disputing any of that. >> I I'm
I'm What I'm saying is if I let's

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just take nuclear energy.
There it's very like for example, one of

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the reasons France is still much
stronger than you'd expect is they moved

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to nuclear. If you look interestingly,

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if you look at

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energy expenditure per unit per person

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as a function of GDP, it's America,

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China, uh Israel, and then Switzerland,

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roughly France. Okay. So, this is very

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This is technology that is sharp. It's

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used in medicine. It's used in nuclear.

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It powers our deterrents above the air,

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below the air, in the ocean. Okay.

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It It can also be abused,
and there are also accidents.

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The first step, you cannot say I'm
building something, but I have no idea

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how to bound it. And I don't believe
that's what But again, that's I don't

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believe that's what they're saying.

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>> That's not what they're saying.

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>> No. No. No. That's what they're
saying, but that's not what they mean.

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>> Right. >> What they
mean is the obvious solution

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is America America gives a risk

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essentially limits the risk in return
for owning it. Or a national or

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multinational government does. That's
what they actually mean. That's not what

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they're saying. Because you couldn't
come out to say it cuz somebody has It's

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like two It's like the investors
are going to be what the F? I thought

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someone else was the mark.
>> [laughter] >> Right.

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>> I'm counting my huge pile of pennies.

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>> for marketing an IPO. >> Well,
it Yeah, I mean, you know, people

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don't like finding out they're the mark.

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But again, the way you The way you can
avoid being in a mark in in life is to

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assume when someone is pointing out
someone else is the sucker, you're the

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sucker. >> What So,
you have I mean, for people

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don't realize like Palantir, you're
kind of the the in between, right? Those

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frontier models and then the enterprise
>> You can think of it as you There's

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something called an application layer.

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Historically, the reason we thrived even
before people realized the safety issue

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was this big was that to make these

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models actually work precisely over very

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complex use cases, think building
complicated manufacturing, Nvidia's

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>> at Chipotle. >> Food safety,
uh military, Nvidia's

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supply chain, things that are very
proprietary and need precision where you

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own the precision, you need an application

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layer. And the application layer also
allows you to use models that might

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otherwise not be safe, like closed
models that may in fact be migrating

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your IP to them. >> Right.
So, what I was going to ask is

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you do a lot of this for the federal
government and for the defense

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department. And so, you have experience
in >> Well, our we are the single most

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enterprise software company, I believe,
in the world. In the US, it grew 149%.

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We are famous for what we do on the
battlefield. And on the battlefield, you

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have exactly these issues. >> Exactly.
That's where I'm going. Like,

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you can't make these safety mistakes
when you're talking about using AI in

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the workforce. >> you have you Look,
you you you're always in the

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business of reducing things beyond what

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we could do yesterday in safety and in
positive and negative. The thing that's

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very important about the battlefield base,

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first of all, you are you

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may or not may not You can help bring
our men and women home. So, there's like

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the safety thing. Then, there's
the precision of what happens. And then,

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very interestingly,
national security is different

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technically than people think. There's
like even inside an enterprise, there

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are multiple levels of security. So,
like, for example, you have levels of

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classification. But then, there are
classifications that you need to be

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classified to understand. So,
when you're on the battlefield, you're

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working at when the when a missile lands

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on our enemy's head, it actually is the
concatenation of data sets and precision

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that's owned in our anthology and in
the model they use, where no single

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component would be able to see the other
component. So, it ends up being But by

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the way, you have very similar issues
with like a supply chain at Nvidia or

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food safety >> what I'm
wondering is how do you make

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sure that that's determined by a human
and not by the AI. Cuz that's some of

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the Some some say it's science fiction,
but that's what some of the worry is.

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>> the human in the loop thing is a very,

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very big issue. We have powered human in

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the loop. The com- complication in

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defense is you have different ethical

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standards for offense and defense. So,
like if I'm attacking you, I have to do

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I'm only allowed to do X things if
you're attacking me. So, the problem in

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this context is if someone is if if
like we're peer-to-peer adversary, you're

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going to have to have a response that is
not a human in the loop. It's so quick.

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And and also with this kind of technology,
you can often predict. So,

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if we can predict you're going to you're
going to attack me, is that offense or

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defense? Because in offense, you
definitely need a human in the loop. In

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defense, there's going to be no time.

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Okay, what if I can predict in in 35
seconds or in 3 hours you're going to

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attack me? Is that offense or defense?

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And so, there there there a lot of The
reason why you really, unfortunately,

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many of my academic colleagues don't
want to hear this, you really have to

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pick a side because in the end,
America in all its greatness is not is a

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country and we're not
perfect, but we are great.

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It is a decision. And by the way,
I've spent half my life studying Chinese

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culture. I I'm a very high-level
practitioner of of Tai Chi, one of the

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four great treasures. I mean, no way
is it xenophobic toward China. I I have

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great admiration for it's like the one
of the oldest, most productive cultures

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in the world. I mean, I can give you
long lectures on this, but in the end,

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there's a choice. Europe has decided to

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not participate. Israel was small.

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Where is a choice? Is it us making
these very hard decisions that will be

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imperfect, or is it them? So, next week

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when she and the president meet, can

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they agree on some shared risks? I I

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mean, I would love it if it happened. I

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think it is unlikely we're going to The

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problem is we're we're we're tight

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00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,557
enough as competitors that both sides
believe they could win. And so, I I

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would Look, I would love it to happen.

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00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:18,997
I'm not in that room. I I would If
it happened that we'd all be happier

306
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,477
Palantir we'd be happier.
Um if you could have some kind of

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framework where the two dominant
countries could control it that would

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00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,077
change the world.
I would be surprised if it happened.

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>> I was going to ask your perspective on
on some of these on the wars. I mean you

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have said and you have said we have
the best technology and we have the we're

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winning the AI race and we have
companies like Palantir working on it

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and yet you know Ukraine war, Iran war
we're kind of in these in these stuck

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places right now. >> Um you
know when you're talking about

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battlefield performance where
the Ukraine's a good example.

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Every day when I got there day five
there was not a single person who didn't

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think they were going to lose.

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00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,717
Like so you have always have to look
what what happened against expectations

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and that the countries that are
in the west that are are are wield these

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00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,597
technologies are Ukraine, Israel
and America. I guarantee you if you got a

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00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,077
classified report of from the from China

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or Russia one of their biggest concerns

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00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,317
would be the systemic outperformance of
these countries on the battlefield where

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these technologies have been implemented.
Guarantee. In fact, you

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00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,877
know, as far as is possible for me to know
that without knowing it cuz I don't

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00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,237
interact with those countries
I can tell you this is true.

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>> You think that deters them
from Taiwan or something else?

327
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,317
>> Look, there are a lot of variables
that go into these decisions.

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They they the the diagnostic of America

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and its capabilities on the battlefield
it means that if they believe we were

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actually to use them it's just a much
higher threshold. But you know, I mean

331
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,197
like these things are not
as like these are multi-variable

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00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,157
equations and also quite frankly often
have to do with domestic things that we

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00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,477
often overlook.
Like where when you attack may

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00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,397
just have to do with like
what is your stature at home?

335
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,757
>> So is there anything
if you saw it in in

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00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,477
the models that they were doing in these
AI companies where you would where that

337
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,837
would that would freak you
out and say we can't like

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00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,677
we have to draw the line
and we can't use this.

339
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,437
>> It's it's it's it's this is a situation
where we all need to First of all, we

340
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,677
need to get serious. You know,
we're talking about like we

341
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,877
like I'm always telling people in
different contexts, you know, there is a

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00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,277
rule here for every every single
business person looking at the show,

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00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:31,357
every single business that's listed
or not listed has a set of rules. It's

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00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,757
called I deliver products that are where
I do not deliver them if I believe in it

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00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,677
to be harmful. You just have to start
there. And again, I I think the

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00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,237
discussion that we're having is not
what this is about. the discussion we're

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00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,797
having is I want to do things. I want

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00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,997
new rules for myself and I don't want to

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00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,677
pay the cost true cost of that, which is

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00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,437
caught liability, primarily civil, but
potentially obviously criminal. And that

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00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,157
every single This is why the business
people I mean, I talk to business people

352
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,717
every day. I've never
seen them this angry. Like

353
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,797
it's like and every conversation's like
this. Wait a minute. They got my IP.

354
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,477
They want to play by rules I don't play
by, whether that's a hospital service,

355
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,397
doctors, real estate. Every single

356
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,077
business person in the country worries

357
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,597
every day about doing something
that they didn't even know was harmful.

358
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,597
Forget knowing it was harmful. You You
can ruin your business with something I

359
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,237
know it's crazy. Like you find out
there's something in your product you

360
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,557
had you did your absolute best to keep
out of it out of the product. You you

361
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,037
still can be found liable. Like you
think the plaintiff's attorneys are

362
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,797
running up there saying, oh, oh, gee whiz.

363
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,237
>> You didn't mean it. You didn't mean it.

364
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,117
>> No, you're paying
your billions of dollars.

365
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,757
You lose your house. You lose your future.

366
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,037
>> So they face lot So they >> No,
I'm just I'm just saying you can't

367
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,277
change the rule book,
but but again, I don't actually

368
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:58,717
do not underestimate Dario's talent. He
That's not That's not what he's actually

369
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,797
saying. What he's actually saying
is this technology is so unique, it can

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00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,677
only be harnessed in a multi

371
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,237
jurisdictional, meaning more than one

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country, and I can only do it if you if

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00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,317
I get to transfer all liability concerns
within a million up to a million dollars

374
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to the US government and probably
European and Canadian governments will

375
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,877
be the fantasy.
And in return [clears throat]

376
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,357
>> But even Elon Musk was sort
of like in agreement with that.

377
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,797
>> Look, I I can't comment on what
everyone's saying. I'm just telling you

378
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,557
what's happening. I don't I don't know
like I don't you know, we're down we

379
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,867
have this massively growing business.
I I barely get time for air. I'm It's like

380
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:36,317
[laughter] we're building our products.

381
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,757
We're we are going to own anthology
in North fine-tuning the models,

382
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,837
fine-tuning the open weight models,

383
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,597
controlling the sovereign movement

384
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,077
was primarily launched by us and Nvidia
and like it's just like it's like it's

385
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,957
like you're a rock band. I have these
huge stadiums of people who want their

386
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,117
sovereignty. So, I'm just
telling people and I also

387
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,797
>> high valuation on your stock. Do you
think the market doesn't appreciate this?

388
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,917
>> I I I look, I mean we are obviously so

389
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,477
systemically undervalued. But it's okay.

390
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:11,517
It's because people are Look, investors
first of all, investors really did fall

391
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,197
for I'm going to make a ton of money.

392
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,877
There's no liability. It's all upside.

393
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,757
All the alpha goes to them and therefore
every bit of value of business is okay,

394
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,757
great. Then these are very technical
things. What does it mean to be

395
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,837
sovereign? What does it mean to train
a model? Are the Are the Like you have to

396
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,157
The more you go into the granular
details of our business and like how

397
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,677
everybody wants to do it. The mere
fact the sovereign movement is so much

398
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,997
bigger. We need partners. We we cannot
scale into our US market. I have people

399
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,557
calling me from like very important allies
and I'm like, "Look, we can't deploy."

400
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,557
I can't take someone out of the US
market. Like these are like crucial

401
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,397
deployments where honestly we have
the only thing that works. But it's like

402
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,837
What are we going to do? >> Capacity?
You just there's so much demand.

403
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,037
>> It's like we we have we're mildly 4,500

404
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,997
We're basically Think of it like every
company. 3,600 people are the We're I

405
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:05,397
would say are the best obviously the best
in the world. Um and we're just we

406
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,917
like every single one of them has like I

407
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:12,477
have one guy from England. Like I
literally to get the job done, I have

408
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,277
like okay, just pretend you're three
people work around the clock. I'll pay

409
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,957
you for it. There's no other way to do it.

410
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,637
>> Why? Cuz you can't
find enough good people?

411
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,877
>> Well, it's I mean it's like

412
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,197
hiring and training people to be full

413
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,997
Palantirians is is a is a process and

414
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,197
the market is expanding way beyond the

415
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,397
way what we can do. And so yeah,
the market is expanding because

416
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,317
like if you want to talk about customer
demand, every single person I deal with

417
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,397
is either on the sovereign thing
or wants to be on it or even skeptics, you

418
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,397
literally talk to them five seconds,
you're like well, how do you feel about

419
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,517
this and this? And they're like oh wow.

420
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,517
It's like it's everywhere.
And the depth of passion around this in

421
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,397
enterprises like I've been at this for 20
years. I've been I was we we led the

422
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,397
we led the anti-terror revolution, we

423
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,597
led the the defense tech revolution, we

424
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,637
led with Foundry like products that work

425
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,077
revolution, especially in the US. We led
the application layer, we're the first

426
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,117
to do the sovereign thing and like and
I've never seen anything like this. Like

427
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,517
every single minute you're not
in this country, you are losing money.

428
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,557
>> Really quick, before we let you go,
on on Dario as an example, what are the

429
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,877
odds that that model, his model, doesn't
survive? And what are the implications

430
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,757
for stocks and everything
else if it doesn't?

431
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,597
>> I look, I don't like I I I I

432
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,317
think he is a one of the great legends

433
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,117
in tech and business and I'm not wishing
them not to survive. I think obviously

434
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,197
everyone's going to move to only using
their product and application layer,

435
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,477
that's good for them because
and it's obviously better for

436
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,037
us, but we were right. Um and

437
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,437
the future is going to be enterprises

438
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,597
using multiple models, some open, some

439
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,677
closed. Prefer They're going to really
where you have actual secrets and alpha,

440
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,717
they're all going to move to open models.
And where it's like marketing in

441
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,557
Argentina, and the person wants
to use a closed model, they'll do that.

442
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,997
>> I just say I wonder about the politics
of all of this. Bernie Sanders wants to

443
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,797
now ban super intelligence. Elizabeth
Warren also is calling for a pause

444
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,797
>> It's not just the left. We have to be

445
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,957
like, you know, I look I It's It's It's

446
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,117
It the far right and far left.

447
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,757
First of all, they're right about the
unpopularity both of the movement and of

448
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,077
the people. And they're taking advantage
of the fact that the the the present

449
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,837
presentation

450
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:40,437
of the technology by the people doing
it could not be worse. So, like my

451
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,397
Honestly, if you want to take the far
right and the far left, you can't hate

452
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,157
the player because they
understand the game.

453
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,917
>> shock doc day. >> They They
They They're just monetizing.

454
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,037
They understand the political landscape.

455
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,077
Are they right? No, but are there
elements and truth in what they're

456
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,517
saying? Of course. They're abusing
elements of truth, but the core truth

457
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,237
that they understand is you guys
have wrecked yourself as if you

458
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,357
do not have the sense God gave a goat.

459
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,117
You are unlikable and you're going to be
50 times richer and we're not down for

460
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,397
it. Then, the solutions are only going
to help our adversaries. But again, it's

461
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,837
not just Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren
or whatever. These are people By the

462
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,197
way, I happen to If you're listening,
I agree with you guys on a lot of issues.

463
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,917
Poor people in this country
do not get a fair shake.

464
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,717
That's true and I'm not certain
that they're going to get that much of a

465
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,797
better shake in 5 or 6 years. We agree.

466
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,637
>> calling yourself
a liberal progressive, Alex?

467
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,637
>> I am an actual progressive. Actual

468
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,877
progressives want poor people, working
class people to to have better lives.

469
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,437
What I disagree with them on is that
this isn't going to help. But again,

470
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,837
you can't go to the player and say,
"You created the game. I'm not going to

471
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,837
monetize it." They're absolutely
doing what they need to do.

472
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,277
We need to do a better job
of doing what we need to do.

473
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,757
>> Which is talking about how the benefits
>> again and in any case thank you very

474
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,757
much. >> Vampire Dracula here.
If you found value

475
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,637
in this video, please smash the like
button. Let me know your favorite part

476
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,717
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477
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:09,920
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Until next time, keep it real.