1 00:00:00,030 --> 00:00:02,690 I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is The Sunday Story. 2 00:00:04,130 --> 00:00:08,474 Election day is just weeks away, and the stakes couldn't be higher. 3 00:00:08,557 --> 00:00:13,761 Democrats need to pick up four seats in the House and four in the Senate to take 4 00:00:13,844 --> 00:00:17,593 control of Congress. Something that might help them do it? 5 00:00:17,677 --> 00:00:22,147 A different kind of Democratic candidate, one who talks about faith. 6 00:00:22,230 --> 00:00:24,916 Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan. 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,107 Like Sarah Trone Garriott. Everyone is your neighbor. 8 00:00:28,191 --> 00:00:31,780 I'm a Luke 4 Christian. Frederick Haynes. Because Jesus says, 9 00:00:31,863 --> 00:00:36,657 the spirit of the Lord and God is upon me because he's anointed me to preach good 10 00:00:36,740 --> 00:00:40,872 news to the poor. And Lindsay James. It's about showing up for people. 11 00:00:40,955 --> 00:00:44,725 It's about listening without judgment. It's about offering hope. 12 00:00:44,808 --> 00:00:49,361 And it's about telling the truth. Why are these Democratic candidates so good 13 00:00:49,445 --> 00:00:51,010 at talking about religion? 14 00:00:52,230 --> 00:00:57,943 Well, they're clergy. Unlike Republicans who aren't shy talking about religion 15 00:00:58,027 --> 00:01:03,963 on the campaign trail, these Democratic clergy have to thread a very fine needle, 16 00:01:04,046 --> 00:01:09,686 appeal to people of faith, but do so in a way that doesn't turn off the base. 17 00:01:09,769 --> 00:01:15,482 Meanwhile, Republicans are on their own mission to discredit these candidates. 18 00:01:15,566 --> 00:01:18,910 Here's Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick. 19 00:01:22,230 --> 00:01:26,242 office and Republican businessman Joe Mitchell. I call them Pinos. 20 00:01:26,325 --> 00:01:29,655 Pastors are name only because they're not real pastors. 21 00:01:29,738 --> 00:01:32,819 They don't profess the true gospel of Jesus Christ. 22 00:01:32,903 --> 00:01:37,721 Today on the Sunday story, we'll take a closer look at some of these Democratic 23 00:01:37,805 --> 00:01:42,933 clergy candidates, ask why they're running and whether their messages are resonating 24 00:01:43,017 --> 00:01:44,630 with voters. Stay with us. 25 00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:54,250 Welcome back to the Sunday story. I'm here with NPR religion correspondent Jason 26 00:01:54,333 --> 00:01:58,368 DeRose, who's been following four Democratic clergy candidates 27 00:01:58,451 --> 00:02:01,440 in competitive races. Welcome to the podcast. 28 00:02:01,530 --> 00:02:06,620 Hello, it's good to be here. So, Jason, at Weekend Edition, you know, my other job, 29 00:02:06,703 --> 00:02:11,804 we've done like a number of interviews about how religion is playing a role 30 00:02:11,888 --> 00:02:16,159 in politics right now. You've been covering religion for years. 31 00:02:16,243 --> 00:02:21,413 Did you ever think you'd see a critical mass of clergy running as Democrats? 32 00:02:21,497 --> 00:02:25,990 I think it's about like six or seven, depending on who you count. 33 00:02:32,970 --> 00:02:36,956 the George W. Bush administration, specifically his compassionate 34 00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:41,964 conservatism. But a lot of those efforts never got off the ground or just really 35 00:02:42,047 --> 00:02:47,285 fizzled. What's different this time around is not just talk about progressive values. 36 00:02:47,369 --> 00:02:50,603 This time around, it's clergy who are the candidates, 37 00:02:50,687 --> 00:02:53,733 people trained to speak about scripture and faith, 38 00:02:53,817 --> 00:02:57,302 and inspire people to live out that faith in public life. 39 00:02:57,385 --> 00:03:01,830 As many pastors will tell you, a big part of the job is rallying people 40 00:03:02,970 --> 00:03:05,880 So before we get into the specific clergy who are running, 41 00:03:05,963 --> 00:03:09,854 what do you think is driving clergy who identify as Democrats to actually run 42 00:03:09,937 --> 00:03:13,931 for office? Like, what do you think is driving clergy who identify as Democrats 43 00:03:14,014 --> 00:03:18,162 to actually run for office? Like, what do you think is driving clergy who identify 44 00:03:18,246 --> 00:03:20,310 as Democrats to actually run for office? 45 00:03:20,490 --> 00:03:24,730 Was this coordinated in some way? Well, nobody I spoke with says they were 46 00:03:24,814 --> 00:03:27,418 recruited specifically because they're clergy. 47 00:03:27,502 --> 00:03:31,508 They say they decided to run as a response to their calls to ministry, 48 00:03:31,592 --> 00:03:35,890 their calls to faith, their calls to public life and a service to neighbor. 49 00:03:35,974 --> 00:03:40,623 They see some of the actions of the Trump administration and they say their faith 50 00:03:40,707 --> 00:03:42,757 compels them to take action and run. 51 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,654 That's very interesting to see it showing up like on the left in that way. 52 00:03:47,737 --> 00:03:51,294 So Jason, tell me about some of these candidates. Like, 53 00:03:51,377 --> 00:03:53,737 who are we talking about here? Yeah. 54 00:03:53,820 --> 00:03:58,618 I reported on two candidates from Texas and two candidates from Iowa, 55 00:03:58,701 --> 00:04:02,155 both states that voted for Trump in 2024. In fact, 56 00:04:02,239 --> 00:04:06,541 Trump carried both states by a margin of more than 13 percent, 57 00:04:06,625 --> 00:04:12,201 so very red states. Probably the most high-profile candidate is James Tallarico. 58 00:04:12,284 --> 00:04:15,680 He's the Democratic nominee for Senate in Texas. 59 00:04:23,820 --> 00:04:27,257 So he's not quite clergy yet. He's a minister in training, 60 00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:29,100 but he does preach regularly. 61 00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:38,801 I want to speak to you this morning, not as a candidate, 62 00:04:38,884 --> 00:04:42,248 but as a fellow Christian. On a Sunday this summer, 63 00:04:42,331 --> 00:04:46,438 he stood at the pulpit of Brentwood Baptist Church in Houston. 64 00:04:46,521 --> 00:04:49,900 My granddad was a Baptist preacher in South Texas. 65 00:04:50,070 --> 00:04:55,877 And when I was real little, he told me that Christianity is a simple religion. 66 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:01,918 Simple, he says, but not easy. Because Jesus gave us two commandments to follow. 67 00:05:02,001 --> 00:05:05,240 Love God and love neighbor. On this morning, 68 00:05:05,324 --> 00:05:09,930 Tallarico was preaching on a passage from the Gospel of Luke. 69 00:05:10,020 --> 00:05:17,020 Sometimes we see the world most clearly through our tears. If your heart 70 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:23,903 is breaking as you watch what's happening to our beloved country it means you still 71 00:05:23,986 --> 00:05:27,160 have a heart so blessed are you who weep 72 00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:32,938 Blessed are you who weep. Tallarico often frames this campaign as being on the side 73 00:05:33,021 --> 00:05:37,790 of those who have been harmed by policies of the Trump administration and who are 74 00:05:37,873 --> 00:05:39,730 upset about it, those who weep. 75 00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:44,584 He's talking about the Beatitudes there, right? And, you know, 76 00:05:44,667 --> 00:05:49,768 I always personally think about the scripture that says God is close to 77 00:05:49,852 --> 00:05:54,160 the brokenhearted. But that's where that comes from, right? 78 00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:14,608 The congregation he's addressing on this day is almost entirely black. 79 00:06:14,691 --> 00:06:19,809 As we've reported extensively in Texas, Republican-led redistricting has diluted 80 00:06:19,893 --> 00:06:24,621 the black vote and black political power. So he's referring to the loss of 81 00:06:24,704 --> 00:06:28,800 that hard-won influence and that pain, the weeping it's caused. 82 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,400 And I understand there's another clergy candidate running in Texas, 83 00:06:33,484 --> 00:06:36,942 specifically because of redistricting. That's right. 84 00:06:37,025 --> 00:06:40,620 The Democratic nominee for the U.S. House District 30, 85 00:06:40,704 --> 00:06:45,865 which encompasses part of Dallas and some southern suburbs, Frederick Haynes. 86 00:06:45,948 --> 00:06:48,998 He is the head pastor of a large congregation, 87 00:06:49,082 --> 00:06:53,834 the 13,000-member Friendship West Baptist Church. He got up. He got up. 88 00:06:53,918 --> 00:06:57,800 That's why you ain't got to stay down, because he got up. 89 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:04,098 Hallelujah. Hallelujah. He's led the congregation for more than four decades. 90 00:07:04,181 --> 00:07:09,632 I visited Haynes while he was hosting an interfaith forum to talk about community 91 00:07:09,716 --> 00:07:13,595 needs and the need for black and brown voices in politics. 92 00:07:13,679 --> 00:07:18,120 I've spent my ministry on the outside, you know, fighting people. 93 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:24,577 what's happening inside and Now, It's as if... 94 00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:27,060 God is saying, okay, you've been called. 95 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,960 to bring outside voices and an outside vision. 96 00:07:32,790 --> 00:07:37,386 in the House. Haynes says he was specifically inspired to run for Congress 97 00:07:37,469 --> 00:07:42,318 after the Texas legislature redistricted and eliminated one of the state's two 98 00:07:42,401 --> 00:07:47,693 black U.S. House districts. I asked him if there was a biblical passage that inspired 99 00:07:47,776 --> 00:07:52,625 both his ministry and this campaign. I'm a Luke 4 Christian because Jesus says 100 00:07:52,708 --> 00:07:55,870 the spirit of the Lord God is upon me because he's 101 00:08:02,790 --> 00:08:05,587 by systems that's what the greek says 102 00:08:05,670 --> 00:08:08,456 Set the captives free. Heal those who are broken. 103 00:08:08,539 --> 00:08:12,671 Broken by feeling disenfranchised both politically through redistricting 104 00:08:12,754 --> 00:08:16,970 and economically, whether it's by inflation or just lack of opportunity. 105 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:20,457 Now, how competitive are these races? Well, 106 00:08:20,540 --> 00:08:24,749 we know that the Tallarico-Texas Senate race is very competitive, 107 00:08:24,833 --> 00:08:28,844 a real toss-up according to polling. The House seat in Dallas, 108 00:08:28,928 --> 00:08:33,203 where Haynes is running, is safe for Democrats since it's the last 109 00:08:33,286 --> 00:08:36,307 predominantly black district left in the state. 110 00:08:36,391 --> 00:08:39,543 But this would be Haynes' first elected position. 111 00:08:39,627 --> 00:08:43,044 So we have two Democrats from Texas running on faith, 112 00:08:43,127 --> 00:08:47,420 Frederick Haynes and James Tallarico. Who are some of the others? 113 00:08:47,700 --> 00:08:47,740 Thank you. 114 00:08:47,790 --> 00:08:52,041 Well, it turns out there are two clergy people in Iowa running for the U.S. 115 00:08:52,124 --> 00:08:56,087 House as Democrats. In the third congressional district is Sarah Trone 116 00:08:56,170 --> 00:08:57,003 Garriott. 117 00:08:58,210 --> 00:09:02,684 Lift up your heads to see and hear the proclamation of the good news made flesh 118 00:09:02,767 --> 00:09:03,690 in Jesus Christ. 119 00:09:03,990 --> 00:09:08,904 Trone Garriott is a Lutheran pastor who's also served in the Iowa Senate since 2021. 120 00:09:08,987 --> 00:09:13,604 I visited her in Des Moines on a Sunday morning when she was leading worship at 121 00:09:13,687 --> 00:09:18,661 a Lutheran church. She was encouraging her congregants to open their minds about what 122 00:09:18,744 --> 00:09:20,410 God's reign might look like. 123 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:25,800 The kingdom of heaven challenges what we have come to expect. 124 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,811 or learned to accept. She says she hears her call to public office in a familiar 125 00:09:31,895 --> 00:09:36,985 story from the Gospel of Luke. Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan. 126 00:09:37,068 --> 00:09:42,494 Everyone is your neighbor. Anyone who is overlooked and left behind and forgotten, 127 00:09:42,577 --> 00:09:47,398 that's who you are called to help. And that is the calling of government. 128 00:09:47,482 --> 00:09:51,580 The calling of government, she says, is to help the forgotten 129 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,927 is the small town of Waverly. I accompanied the other 130 00:10:00,010 --> 00:10:03,061 Democratic clergy person in Iowa running for the U.S. 131 00:10:03,144 --> 00:10:06,787 House as she shook hands at the county fair. Hi, Lindsay James, 132 00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:11,577 running for Congress. Nice to meet you. Lindsay James is a Presbyterian chaplain, 133 00:10:11,660 --> 00:10:16,131 a four-term state house representative, and the Democratic nominee for Iowa's 134 00:10:16,214 --> 00:10:20,507 second congressional district. She remembers the moment she decided to run 135 00:10:20,590 --> 00:10:24,730 for federal office. After the big, beautiful bill was passed from D.C. 136 00:10:30,010 --> 00:10:32,793 Iowa's second congressional district. And Aisha, 137 00:10:32,876 --> 00:10:35,539 rural health care is critical in farm country, 138 00:10:35,622 --> 00:10:39,062 and James says the way she can best care for her neighbors, 139 00:10:39,145 --> 00:10:42,405 also alluding to the gospel story of the Good Samaritan, 140 00:10:42,489 --> 00:10:46,250 is taking their cause of rural health care to the U.S. Capitol. 141 00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:56,473 So, Jason, how are these candidates, Republican opponents, 142 00:10:56,556 --> 00:11:01,226 responding to their campaigns? I'm sure they're not just taking this lying down, 143 00:11:01,310 --> 00:11:05,920 you know. I'd say there's a unified theme of opposition in both Texas and Iowa. 144 00:11:06,003 --> 00:11:10,376 And among other things, the GOP candidates are actually questioning whether 145 00:11:10,460 --> 00:11:13,490 the Democrats who are clergy are really Christians. 146 00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:27,045 who's getting into heaven, who's really about it. 147 00:11:27,129 --> 00:11:33,690 But the thing with this is these are these Democrats who are running for office, 148 00:11:34,090 --> 00:11:38,550 They're clergy or they're in seminary. So how are these Republicans making 149 00:11:38,633 --> 00:11:41,150 the argument that they're not Christians? 150 00:11:41,530 --> 00:11:44,397 Well, here's James Tallarico's Republican opponent, 151 00:11:44,481 --> 00:11:48,100 Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, speaking at a campaign rally. 152 00:11:48,184 --> 00:11:49,630 We cannot let Texas turn. 153 00:11:50,170 --> 00:11:55,141 based on a deceiver like James Tallarico, who does not want the world to know who he 154 00:11:55,224 --> 00:11:59,413 really is. Paxton and his campaign repeatedly raise this idea that he's 155 00:11:59,497 --> 00:12:02,121 hiding something about his religious beliefs, 156 00:12:02,204 --> 00:12:05,731 and they describe Tallarico as an out-of-touch radical. Now, 157 00:12:05,815 --> 00:12:10,304 here's Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick talking about Tallarico earlier 158 00:12:10,388 --> 00:12:14,637 this year at the state GOP convention. I've never seen so much blasphemy 159 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,150 from anyone running for office. And let me tell you what, 160 00:12:20,170 --> 00:12:25,296 Because when he loses the Senate race, if he campaigns against God as he's been 161 00:12:25,379 --> 00:12:28,610 doing, he's gone to hell for sure. Wow. I mean... 162 00:12:29,230 --> 00:12:33,427 Saying that someone is going to hell is a big deal. 163 00:12:33,510 --> 00:12:38,630 How has Tallarico been responding to these types of comments? 164 00:12:39,010 --> 00:12:44,640 He's actually incorporated a response to these attacks into his preaching 165 00:12:44,724 --> 00:12:50,824 and campaign rallies, giving specific examples of what he says are GOP actions. 166 00:12:50,907 --> 00:12:56,851 The real blasphemy is kicking the sick off their health care to fund tax cuts 167 00:12:56,934 --> 00:12:59,830 for billionaires. The real blasphemy. 168 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:05,521 is letting children go hungry in the wealthiest nation on earth. 169 00:13:05,604 --> 00:13:11,738 The real blasphemy is homeless veterans sleeping on our streets. Well, 170 00:13:11,822 --> 00:13:18,222 you know, Jason, you know, it seems like what these politicians are doing 171 00:13:18,305 --> 00:13:25,305 is calling each other blasphemous because they have different understandings of how 172 00:13:25,677 --> 00:13:27,720 to interpret scripture. 173 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:35,292 these races is how J.D. Vance talks about the biblical idea of neighbor being those 174 00:13:35,375 --> 00:13:38,906 closest to you, while others, including many Democrats, 175 00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:44,098 we just heard Lindsay James say it, your neighbors are the people most in need. 176 00:13:44,182 --> 00:13:49,290 Now, a similar clash of interpretation is coming from Frederick Haynes opponent 177 00:13:49,374 --> 00:13:54,614 Everett Jackson in the Dallas House race. Jackson questions Haynes' faith and his 178 00:13:54,697 --> 00:13:55,530 leadership. 179 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:04,716 Jackson is a Dallas area businessman. Here he is speaking on a conservative YouTube 180 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,740 show called Disturbing the Peace. 181 00:14:07,060 --> 00:14:10,686 Because a shepherd, the good shepherd, as we're taught by the Lord, 182 00:14:10,769 --> 00:14:15,226 they would see to the safeguarding of the sheep and lead them in a righteous path. 183 00:14:15,309 --> 00:14:19,960 This is not what Freddie Haynes is doing. Freddie Haynes has politicized the gospel. 184 00:14:20,410 --> 00:14:25,481 And thus for what? mislead his parishioners. So that's Texas. You know, 185 00:14:25,565 --> 00:14:30,810 the Midwest is usually known for less heated language, a little more nice. 186 00:14:30,893 --> 00:14:35,995 Are the opponents of the Democratic candidates there being a little more 187 00:14:36,078 --> 00:14:40,676 cordial? In a word, no. In fact, Sarah Trone Garriott's opponent, 188 00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:46,221 incumbent GOP Congressman Zach Nunn, criticizes her for how she's carried out 189 00:14:46,304 --> 00:14:47,240 her ministry, 190 00:14:51,820 --> 00:14:56,414 ago. When Tron Garriott was an intern, she assisted at a wedding for two people who 191 00:14:56,497 --> 00:15:00,697 weren't Christians. In fact, they said they were Satanists. Satanists? Okay. 192 00:15:00,780 --> 00:15:03,120 So this is a little bit of a strange story. 193 00:15:03,203 --> 00:15:06,614 These two people were getting married. They weren't Christian. 194 00:15:06,697 --> 00:15:11,178 They needed someone to officiate. So they knocked on the door of the church where 195 00:15:11,262 --> 00:15:15,236 Tron Garriott was an intern. And they didn't really look like lovebirds. 196 00:15:15,319 --> 00:15:19,349 She talked about that moment at a Des Moines Register storytelling event. 197 00:15:19,433 --> 00:15:20,266 Were they 198 00:15:21,820 --> 00:15:23,320 testify against each other? 199 00:15:25,330 --> 00:15:30,654 The pastor of that church agreed to do the wedding out of kindness and asked her 200 00:15:30,737 --> 00:15:34,642 to assist. Irritated, I flipped through the Bible thinking, 201 00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:39,508 should I pick something with Satan in it to make them feel more at home? 202 00:15:39,591 --> 00:15:45,050 But for her opponent, Congressman Nunn, finding out about these Satanists was ripe 203 00:15:45,134 --> 00:15:49,173 material. Here he is speaking on News Radio 1040 WHO in Iowa. 204 00:15:49,257 --> 00:15:53,650 She talks about the situation like some kind of a charming story. 205 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:58,490 So that Satanists could feel more at home. 206 00:16:14,590 --> 00:16:15,430 Love is kind. 207 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,540 And in the moment, when I glanced up, 208 00:16:20,260 --> 00:16:25,095 I was struck. by the sudden tenderness on her face. And Aisha, 209 00:16:25,178 --> 00:16:27,834 I'll point out that when I interviewed her, 210 00:16:27,918 --> 00:16:32,549 Trone Gary defended both assisting with the wedding and telling the story. 211 00:16:32,632 --> 00:16:35,224 It's a story about the power of scripture. 212 00:16:35,308 --> 00:16:39,640 And I believe it spoke to that couple in that moment who seemed like 213 00:16:40,180 --> 00:16:44,807 the wrong people in the wrong place. And it was speaking to me. 214 00:16:44,890 --> 00:16:50,647 So it's like she's arguing that she was ministering to the Satanists, 215 00:16:50,730 --> 00:16:54,370 you know, the way you minister to the lost. 216 00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:57,483 That does sound like what she's talking about there. Also, 217 00:16:57,566 --> 00:17:00,010 just being present for people who were in need. 218 00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:03,047 So, Aisha, let's go to Northeast Iowa next, 219 00:17:03,130 --> 00:17:07,719 to the open house district where Lindsay James is running. Her opponent, 220 00:17:07,802 --> 00:17:13,104 Republican businessman Joe Mitchell, also questions the ministry of not only James, 221 00:17:13,188 --> 00:17:18,490 but also of Sarah Trone Garriott. Here he is at the Conservative Evangelical Family 222 00:17:18,573 --> 00:17:21,669 Leadership Summit this summer. I call them Pinos. 223 00:17:21,753 --> 00:17:25,627 Pastors in name only because they're not real pastors, right? 224 00:17:25,711 --> 00:17:29,020 They don't profess the true gospel of Jesus Christ. 225 00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:35,719 Well, one of the things both Mitchell and Nunn bring up relates to Trone Garriott 226 00:17:35,802 --> 00:17:38,618 and James serving in the state legislature. 227 00:17:38,701 --> 00:17:43,743 They both voted against bills that would have restricted transgender rights. 228 00:17:43,826 --> 00:17:47,400 The Republicans argue those votes are anti-Christian. 229 00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:05,437 too, very liberal. And while their opponents are framing them as radicals, 230 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:10,827 these candidates are pretty centrist Democrats on a lot of issues like health 231 00:18:10,910 --> 00:18:13,640 care and taxation. We'll be right back. 232 00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:24,904 I'm Aisha Roscoe. This is a Sunday story. We're back with NPR religion correspondent 233 00:18:24,987 --> 00:18:30,561 Jason DeRose talking about the Democratic clergy running for Congress in this year's 234 00:18:30,644 --> 00:18:36,142 midterms. Jason, let's turn to how voters are responding to these campaigns. 235 00:18:36,225 --> 00:18:41,996 There's a Pew Research poll that says less than one third of Democrats say religion 236 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:47,497 is important to them. You spent a lot of time on the ground in Texas and Iowa. 237 00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:48,827 What did you hear? 238 00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:53,404 What I found on the ground, or rather in the pews at campaign events and on 239 00:18:53,487 --> 00:18:56,882 the streets and at county fairs, is a range of responses. 240 00:18:56,966 --> 00:19:00,117 Since we're talking about clergy talking about faith, 241 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,290 let's start with how people of faith are responding. 242 00:19:03,374 --> 00:19:07,867 Among the churchgoers I spoke with, folks fall into two general categories, 243 00:19:07,951 --> 00:19:12,200 enthusiasts and skeptics. Candace Stroud was sitting in one of the pews 244 00:19:12,284 --> 00:19:15,923 at Brentwood Baptist Church when James Tallarico spoke there. 245 00:19:16,006 --> 00:19:17,410 She's been a member for 246 00:19:18,910 --> 00:19:22,723 and she's glad Tallarico embraces his faith while campaigning. 247 00:19:22,806 --> 00:19:26,556 I think Democrats have been talking about religion for years. 248 00:19:26,639 --> 00:19:31,520 It's just nobody wants to listen to us if you don't say what they want to hear. 249 00:19:31,603 --> 00:19:35,541 When you say they, what do you mean? The Republicans, basically. 250 00:19:35,625 --> 00:19:39,563 They don't want to hear that we are Christians. We go to church. 251 00:19:39,646 --> 00:19:43,773 We believe in the Bible. And Tallarico's Christianity, Stroud says, 252 00:19:43,856 --> 00:19:45,490 sounds a lot like her own. 253 00:19:48,910 --> 00:19:53,069 you know, I'm a person of faith. I go to a black church, 254 00:19:53,152 --> 00:19:58,902 been at the black church all my life. And a lot of black churchgoers are very 255 00:19:58,985 --> 00:20:02,640 conservative. and they're aligned with conservative values. 256 00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:07,514 But being black, they just they're not going to vote Republican. 257 00:20:07,597 --> 00:20:10,589 I remember back in the day with family members, 258 00:20:10,672 --> 00:20:15,758 I had one family member who was against gay marriage and she was thinking about 259 00:20:15,841 --> 00:20:20,141 voting for George W. Bush. But then another family member was like, 260 00:20:20,225 --> 00:20:24,870 you can't just vote on that issue. You know, it's more to it than that. 261 00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:29,454 You know, Aisha, that example, I think, really speaks to something that was very 262 00:20:29,537 --> 00:20:31,911 true a few decades ago, but less true today. 263 00:20:31,994 --> 00:20:34,591 Pew Research has done extensive polling on this. 264 00:20:34,674 --> 00:20:38,891 And there's been a lot of political movement toward acceptance of things like 265 00:20:38,974 --> 00:20:42,855 same-sex marriage and LGBT issues more largely within the black church, 266 00:20:42,938 --> 00:20:46,931 also greater acceptance of legal abortion in historically black churches. 267 00:20:47,015 --> 00:20:50,030 I wonder if you've noticed that change over the years. 268 00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:56,079 I think that there are bigger mainstream churches that are more accepting of gay 269 00:20:56,163 --> 00:21:01,450 people. There is still a lot of churches that are homophobic or that are not 270 00:21:01,533 --> 00:21:04,430 supportive of the LGBTQ community. But... 271 00:21:04,670 --> 00:21:08,433 Even with a lot of those churches, it's not their main focus. 272 00:21:08,516 --> 00:21:12,972 It's not something they're preaching about from the pulpit every Sunday. 273 00:21:13,056 --> 00:21:15,830 I think there's still a big focus on church. 274 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,260 Justice and racial justice And 275 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,049 that shows up more even in those churches. Yeah, I think that's true. 276 00:21:25,132 --> 00:21:28,473 I found that in my own reporting, and I see this from, you know, 277 00:21:28,556 --> 00:21:33,290 Pew Research as well. Now, Aisha, let's consider another view from the pews, 278 00:21:33,374 --> 00:21:38,201 or actually a view from the coffee hour. That's where I spoke with Rich Schneider, 279 00:21:38,284 --> 00:21:42,811 who heard Sarah Trone Garriott preach at Grace Lutheran Church in Des Moines. 280 00:21:42,895 --> 00:21:46,285 It's a predominantly white congregation, lots of families. 281 00:21:46,368 --> 00:21:50,380 He tells me he's not naturally inclined to want clergy in politics. 282 00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:52,280 skeptical 283 00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:58,040 until I get a chance to... listen to their expressions of faith and how they... 284 00:21:58,220 --> 00:22:01,560 how they view... their calling. And when it becomes... 285 00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:04,590 of calling rather than a prescription. 286 00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:08,440 or a bully pulpit, then I'll start to listen. 287 00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:13,328 Snyder says he likes what he hears from Tron Garriott on the campaign trail, 288 00:22:13,412 --> 00:22:17,512 but he's also glad that she does not preach overtly political sermons. 289 00:22:17,595 --> 00:22:21,814 She doesn't talk about running for the U.S. House while she's preaching. 290 00:22:21,898 --> 00:22:26,296 Tron Garriott says she's careful to distinguish when she's acting as clergy 291 00:22:26,380 --> 00:22:30,420 and when she's acting as a politician. But these callings, of course, 292 00:22:30,503 --> 00:22:34,842 influence each other. OK, so that's the view from the pews, as you put it. 293 00:22:34,925 --> 00:22:38,690 I like that. How about the take from people at campaign events? 294 00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:43,400 Well, let's go back to that interfaith forum in Dallas that Frederick Haynes 295 00:22:43,483 --> 00:22:48,256 held. It was meant as a way to hear people of faith's concerns about issues like 296 00:22:48,339 --> 00:22:51,412 housing and voting rights. About 50 people attended, 297 00:22:51,496 --> 00:22:55,115 mostly Christian church leaders from different denominations, 298 00:22:55,198 --> 00:22:59,690 Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, but also a fairly large group of Muslims. 299 00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:11,778 So I wanted to hear what their big issues were. 300 00:23:11,862 --> 00:23:16,425 I think I can speak to this firsthand. Ali Askar Aliabi is a professor at 301 00:23:16,509 --> 00:23:21,009 the University of Texas in Dallas. He says the Muslim bashing hits home. 302 00:23:21,092 --> 00:23:25,846 Living in Texas right now and seeing what's going on with Islamophobia right 303 00:23:25,930 --> 00:23:30,366 in my backyard has certainly made my job a little bit more challenging, 304 00:23:30,449 --> 00:23:33,422 but I'm ready for the challenge. Ready, he says, 305 00:23:33,505 --> 00:23:38,470 in part because of the people of Christian faith he's met at events like this. 306 00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:43,531 like Reverend Haynes. The people that I found solidarity with, with, you know, 307 00:23:43,615 --> 00:23:48,337 my liberal values or my religious values or my social justice values were often 308 00:23:48,420 --> 00:23:53,385 the faith groups here. And he says given the anti-Muslim rhetoric in Texas politics 309 00:23:53,469 --> 00:23:58,434 right now, he's glad Haynes specifically invited Muslims like himself to talk about 310 00:23:58,518 --> 00:23:59,430 their concerns. 311 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,848 But, Jason, let's pull back for a moment. You've mentioned that a lot of Democrats 312 00:24:05,931 --> 00:24:10,461 aren't religious in any way, Christian or Muslim or anything else. 313 00:24:10,544 --> 00:24:13,480 So how do these candidates play with them? 314 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,860 referring to 315 00:24:32,030 --> 00:24:36,846 the Gospels. Taking in these messages was 40-year-old nurse practitioner Brandon 316 00:24:36,929 --> 00:24:40,275 Sterling. I would say I'm more spiritual than religious. 317 00:24:40,358 --> 00:24:43,826 The only thing I do religiously is I get up, I go to work, 318 00:24:43,910 --> 00:24:48,664 go to the gym. Sterling's pragmatic about what it'll take for a Democrat to get 319 00:24:48,747 --> 00:24:52,461 elected statewide in Texas. We're here in the South. You know, 320 00:24:52,544 --> 00:24:56,747 a lot of people lead their political views with their religious views, 321 00:24:56,831 --> 00:24:59,770 if you will. So if this is how you have to reach 322 00:25:02,030 --> 00:25:04,347 offend me at all, especially what he's saying. 323 00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:05,330 love thy neighbor. 324 00:25:05,420 --> 00:25:10,402 I'd call that the indifferent toward religion group. Jason, though, 325 00:25:10,485 --> 00:25:16,047 what plays at a political rally or a church isn't necessarily what plays a 326 00:25:16,130 --> 00:25:18,570 on the streets, right? I'm Sarah Tron-Garriott. 327 00:25:18,653 --> 00:25:22,274 I'm state senator for Dallas County and I'm running for Congress. Hi, 328 00:25:22,357 --> 00:25:26,515 how are you doing? So on a humid Sunday afternoon in the western suburbs of Des 329 00:25:26,598 --> 00:25:30,756 Moines, I accompanied Sarah Tron-Garriott canvassing for votes. I'm a minister, 330 00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:34,567 I'm a state senator. One of the doors Tron-Garriott knocked on belonged 331 00:25:34,650 --> 00:25:38,647 to Stephen and Casey Hendrickson. The big issue for them? I said everything. 332 00:25:38,730 --> 00:25:43,049 We just went grocery shopping and just, it's amazing how you can get like 20 items 333 00:25:43,132 --> 00:25:45,870 and it costs 100 bucks. The couple isn't especially 334 00:25:46,130 --> 00:25:50,681 religious, but when I asked their thoughts on clergy running for office? 335 00:25:50,764 --> 00:25:55,122 I think they have an ability to work with people more so than others. 336 00:25:55,206 --> 00:26:00,143 They've actually seen people go through things and are willing to help people. 337 00:26:00,226 --> 00:26:04,410 Moral compass will be on the higher side versus those that don't. 338 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:05,540 would be my guess. 339 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,892 So not religious, but they think maybe a person of faith could bring better ethics 340 00:26:10,975 --> 00:26:15,213 to Washington. Right. And what they said about the cost of groceries, 341 00:26:15,296 --> 00:26:18,094 I heard that a lot while reporting this story. 342 00:26:18,177 --> 00:26:23,229 It was a theme in both the Des Moines area and in rural Bramer County in northeast 343 00:26:23,312 --> 00:26:27,863 Iowa. While I was walking around the county fair there with Lindsay James, 344 00:26:27,946 --> 00:26:31,432 lots of people raised real bread and butter issues. Yeah, 345 00:26:31,516 --> 00:26:34,960 I've seen your ads quite a bit. Oh, have you? Oh, good. 346 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,603 Good, we're not spamming you. No, no. Among the potential voters she met while 347 00:26:40,686 --> 00:26:44,641 touring 4-H exhibits and sampling cheese curds was Lindley Sharp. 348 00:26:44,725 --> 00:26:49,301 Sharp works in public health and worries about budget cuts to programs like 349 00:26:49,384 --> 00:26:52,532 vaccination campaigns and health education programs. 350 00:26:52,615 --> 00:26:56,840 It's going to mean less money for local public health down the line. 351 00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:59,370 after some of their federal 352 00:26:59,690 --> 00:27:04,136 Standing nearby was Kip Ledeigy, who works in emergency medical services. 353 00:27:04,219 --> 00:27:07,859 Look at the Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement that we get, 354 00:27:07,942 --> 00:27:11,334 because we're getting hoes here. If we have a $600 call, 355 00:27:11,417 --> 00:27:14,374 we're lucky to get $140. I've got all the charts. 356 00:27:14,457 --> 00:27:18,966 While neither ambulances nor public health may seem like religious issues, 357 00:27:19,049 --> 00:27:21,758 for Lindsay James, they're deeply moral ones. 358 00:27:21,841 --> 00:27:25,750 And she says they're why she decided to run for the U.S. House. 359 00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:31,104 But Jason, what about those voters who really don't like any God talk in 360 00:27:31,187 --> 00:27:35,044 their politics? You know, when they hear people of faith, 361 00:27:35,128 --> 00:27:38,930 they also want to hear what about people with no faith? 362 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,746 Well, it's definitely a concern for Democrats, 363 00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:46,230 and one I think is best embodied by someone I met while out following folks 364 00:27:46,313 --> 00:27:49,840 knocking on doors in Houston in support of James Tallarico. 365 00:27:52,780 --> 00:27:58,003 Her name is Kristen Kott. She cares about improving schools and worries about 366 00:27:58,086 --> 00:28:03,585 the recent flooding in her neighborhood. When I asked her about James Tallarico's 367 00:28:03,668 --> 00:28:04,840 focus on faith... 368 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:16,080 play. Why is that? Well, because I don't think religion should play into 369 00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:22,650 government and politics at all. I mean, I thought the country was founded on that. 370 00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:27,096 Aisha, that's a very important point of view to keep in mind for Democrats talking 371 00:28:27,179 --> 00:28:28,879 about faith on the campaign trail. 372 00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:35,370 Yeah, you know, I have a friend who was a pastor and he ran for office as 373 00:28:35,454 --> 00:28:42,431 a Republican. He lost and then he actually repented because he felt like politics 374 00:28:42,515 --> 00:28:48,359 were too divisive. And if he's going to spread the gospel of Christ, 375 00:28:48,443 --> 00:28:53,150 he didn't want to be limited to just one party, right? 376 00:28:59,090 --> 00:29:03,663 in. Well, that's where I think threading the needle comes into play. 377 00:29:03,746 --> 00:29:08,559 I will say that many of these candidates have figured out how to do it, though, 378 00:29:08,642 --> 00:29:13,083 at least in state politics. Lindsay James is a statehouse representative. 379 00:29:13,167 --> 00:29:16,554 Sarah Trone Garriott is a state senator. They're clergy, 380 00:29:16,637 --> 00:29:19,857 and they're careful to not campaign from the pulpit. 381 00:29:19,940 --> 00:29:23,688 Is there any indication that these messages about faith, 382 00:29:23,771 --> 00:29:27,519 whether it's about the Good Samaritan or the Beatitudes, 383 00:29:27,602 --> 00:29:31,160 have moved the needle among voters in Iowa or Texas? 384 00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:36,020 Well, you know, it's hard to say what specifically has moved the needle, 385 00:29:36,103 --> 00:29:40,363 but it's moving. It could be that independent voters and swing voters are 386 00:29:40,446 --> 00:29:45,063 just motivated by the economy or the Iran war or the dislike of the White House 387 00:29:45,146 --> 00:29:49,822 ballroom. But there's been significant movement in these places where clergy are 388 00:29:49,906 --> 00:29:52,797 running. In the course of my reporting this story, 389 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,556 the Cook Political Report moved the Senate race in Texas between James Tallarico 390 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,917 and Ken Paxson from leans Republican to 391 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,675 That's huge in Texas. And earlier this year, 392 00:30:02,758 --> 00:30:05,620 Cook moved Iowa's third congressional district, 393 00:30:05,704 --> 00:30:09,193 where Sarah Trone-Garrett is running to unseat Zach Nunn, 394 00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:14,040 from Leans Republican to toss-up. So there appears to be some real traction. 395 00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:18,526 So there's traction, but it's still a balancing act, 396 00:30:18,609 --> 00:30:22,360 being both a religious leader and a politician. 397 00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:34,913 James and Trone Garriott and Tallarico to run is part of the answer, 398 00:30:34,996 --> 00:30:39,707 the story of the Good Samaritan, that story of the person who helps a man lying 399 00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:43,226 injured on the side of the road from Jerusalem to Jericho. 400 00:30:43,309 --> 00:30:47,959 There's a specific interpretation or reading of that story that Lindsay James, 401 00:30:48,042 --> 00:30:52,290 the Presbyterian chaplain, brings up. It's from Martin Luther King Jr. 402 00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:04,814 pick up the person who's hurting, but to actually fix the road. 403 00:31:04,897 --> 00:31:08,904 James is deeply motivated by this concept of the Good Samaritan, 404 00:31:08,988 --> 00:31:13,634 but I didn't hear her once bring up religion while talking with voters who 405 00:31:13,718 --> 00:31:18,428 were worried about emergency services or public health at that county fair. 406 00:31:18,512 --> 00:31:23,478 So she's walking that fine line. Still, Lindsay James sees that road to Jericho 407 00:31:23,561 --> 00:31:26,482 today as underfunded health care in rural Iowa. 408 00:31:26,565 --> 00:31:29,250 And repairing it is what her faith and the 409 00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:34,643 in public life. It's her way of serving her neighbor. Jason, 410 00:31:34,726 --> 00:31:38,564 thank you so much for bringing us this story. You're welcome. 411 00:31:38,647 --> 00:31:42,549 Glad to do it. That's NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose, 412 00:31:42,632 --> 00:31:46,810 who's been reporting on clergy running for Congress as Democrats. 413 00:31:49,910 --> 00:31:55,215 This week's episode of The Sunday Story was produced by Sharon Mashihe and edited 414 00:31:55,298 --> 00:31:56,131 by Jenny 415 00:32:00,870 --> 00:32:05,480 Lee Huang. Special thanks this episode to NPR senior editor for religion 416 00:32:05,564 --> 00:32:10,761 and spirituality, Daniel Burke. The rest of the Sunday story team includes Andrew 417 00:32:10,844 --> 00:32:16,171 Lambo. Our supervising senior producer is Liana Simstrom and our executive producer 418 00:32:16,255 --> 00:32:21,256 is Irene Noguchi. I'm Aisha Roscoe and Up First will be back tomorrow with all 419 00:32:21,339 --> 00:32:24,450 the news you need to start your week. Until then, 420 00:32:24,534 --> 00:32:26,750 have a great rest of your weekend. 421 00:32:27,210 --> 00:32:31,790 Thank you. you