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This podcast contains some strong language. 10 00:00:43,860 --> 00:00:50,860 This is an electronically recorded interview between Detective Sergeant 11 00:00:51,225 --> 00:00:56,100 Andrew Campbell and Tobias Frederick Suckfield. 12 00:00:57,690 --> 00:01:01,590 At the Lismore Police Station. A young German backpacker. 13 00:01:01,740 --> 00:01:03,900 is sitting in a police interview room 14 00:01:04,350 --> 00:01:07,736 What is your purpose for being in Australia? Well, actually, 15 00:01:07,819 --> 00:01:12,131 for learning a lifestyle. I finished university, so... and I like to travel, 16 00:01:12,214 --> 00:01:15,510 I like to learn different lifestyles, different cultures. 17 00:01:16,170 --> 00:01:20,070 Tobias Silkfall came to Australia for the trip of a lifetime. 18 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,220 But now he's come to a police station in country New South Wales. 19 00:01:24,930 --> 00:01:26,630 He says his girlfriend is missing. 20 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:30,840 And police are asking him questions about what's happened. 21 00:01:31,410 --> 00:01:35,190 The purpose of this interview is to record... 22 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:42,280 your version of Simone Strobel going missing. Okay. 23 00:01:42,690 --> 00:01:44,310 It's February 2005. 24 00:01:45,570 --> 00:01:49,720 For the past six months, Tobias and his German girlfriend, Simone Strobel, 25 00:01:49,804 --> 00:01:52,550 had been travelling the east coast of Australia. 26 00:01:53,220 --> 00:01:55,120 He's 24 and she's 25. 27 00:01:56,670 --> 00:02:01,480 But last night, He says Simone walked away from their campsite at a caravan park. 28 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:02,990 And she hasn't come back. 29 00:02:04,140 --> 00:02:09,100 I don't know where she is, man. I'm really, really worried. And I'm, 30 00:02:09,183 --> 00:02:12,956 I don't like mental sick when she's not coming back. 31 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:18,519 I don't know what I can do. We're in a different country. We're not really, 32 00:02:18,602 --> 00:02:23,562 we don't speak this language very good. And so we know nobody. Okay. 33 00:02:23,645 --> 00:02:26,790 We're not at home. Tobias is lean. 34 00:02:26,910 --> 00:02:30,460 He has light brown hair with sun bleached tips that kiss his shoulders. 35 00:02:31,140 --> 00:02:34,620 He's got a small goatee beard and he's wearing a beaded necklace. 36 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,567 He says he and his girlfriend had been having a great time doing the backpacker 37 00:02:40,651 --> 00:02:41,900 thing across Australia. 38 00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:46,105 Our players still travelling together and yeah, 39 00:02:46,188 --> 00:02:50,430 we had such a good time together and we're going deeper and deeper in life. 40 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,640 At the moment, they have two others travelling with them, 41 00:02:54,330 --> 00:02:57,536 Tobias' sister has come over from Germany with a friend, 42 00:02:57,619 --> 00:03:01,730 and all four of them were staying at the campsite in Lismore together. 43 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,720 But last night, Tobias says he and his sister started arguing. 44 00:03:06,870 --> 00:03:09,370 Something to do with their family back in Germany. 45 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:15,031 My sister says some stuff, that verse. We had just a conversation, 46 00:03:15,114 --> 00:03:20,166 and then she says something. I don't know actually what she said, 47 00:03:20,250 --> 00:03:22,620 but I had a different opinion. 48 00:03:23,310 --> 00:03:27,310 Tobias says his girlfriend Simone tried to break up the argument and 49 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:34,960 She said, stop, stop saying, stop saying, that's boring stuff. Let us talk about... 50 00:03:36,180 --> 00:03:40,811 bad things or funny stuff or something like that and then she stand up and she 51 00:03:40,895 --> 00:03:41,728 walked away. 52 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,400 And on time that she took none of her personal possessions with her. 53 00:03:47,483 --> 00:03:51,421 She had nothing. She stands straight up and walked away. 54 00:03:51,505 --> 00:03:54,880 And she had just a shirt, a skirt and no shoes. 55 00:03:55,710 --> 00:04:00,390 The detective listens quietly as Tobias recalls the argument with his sister... 56 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,380 and how Simone walked away after she told them to cut it out. 57 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,650 The detective wants to know more about how Tobias and Simone have been getting along. 58 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,537 Your relationship was quite strong, was it? 59 00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:15,100 with someone is 60 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,096 What do you mean, strong? It's close. Good, yeah, very good, very close. 61 00:04:20,179 --> 00:04:24,493 He keeps pushing the point. Have you had any problems? No, no problems. 62 00:04:24,576 --> 00:04:28,394 And circling back to what was going on between them that night. 63 00:04:28,478 --> 00:04:29,840 So was it an argument? 64 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,773 Between yourself and Simone? No, nothing. Why are you asking these questions five 65 00:04:37,856 --> 00:04:43,200 times? Tobias is getting riled up. He leans in closer to the detective, 66 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:52,720 hand gestures. It's only toward the end of the interview that the detective lands 67 00:05:00,290 --> 00:05:07,290 a question he's been building up to. I'm investigative journalist Richard Baker. 68 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,822 I first heard about this story years ago. The young German backpacker who 69 00:05:20,905 --> 00:05:25,154 disappeared into the darkness from a caravan park in Lismore. 70 00:05:25,237 --> 00:05:30,268 Like so many before her, Simone had packed her bags and set off on a big 71 00:05:30,351 --> 00:05:32,340 life-changing trip overseas. 72 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,920 The case always stuck with me because of how tragic that was. 73 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:41,354 that she probably set off with such hope for the future, 74 00:05:41,438 --> 00:05:42,960 but she never made it home. 75 00:05:51,860 --> 00:05:56,830 Then, in late 2024, I heard that one of the key figures in this mystery, 76 00:05:56,914 --> 00:06:02,165 someone who was there that night, wanted journalists to take another look at 77 00:06:02,248 --> 00:06:03,082 the case. 78 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:14,403 me. It's a story that's tangled with lies. It shocked the city of Lismore, 79 00:06:14,487 --> 00:06:21,197 caused a trail of damage over decades, and seen police take extreme and desperate 80 00:06:21,281 --> 00:06:25,140 measures. But despite all that, 21 years later, 81 00:06:25,223 --> 00:06:29,920 there's still no justice for Simone. I want to know why. 82 00:06:31,170 --> 00:06:34,530 From Unravel, This is Lies in Lismore. 83 00:07:00,510 --> 00:07:04,450 Simone Strobel's trip to Australia was by far her biggest adventure. 84 00:07:05,460 --> 00:07:09,760 She'd travelled in parts of Europe before, But she'd never been this far from home. 85 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:13,580 Her parents were pig farmers in Bavaria, Germany. 86 00:07:14,070 --> 00:07:16,730 She grew up on the farm with her brother and sister, 87 00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:20,887 Simone went to church. She was part of the local music club. 88 00:07:20,970 --> 00:07:23,120 And she went to house parties and gigs too. 89 00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:28,521 After high school, she studied at a teacher's college and was working as 90 00:07:28,605 --> 00:07:31,590 a kindergarten teacher before she set off overseas. 91 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:39,330 When Simone arrived in Australia, She was in awe of the landscape and the wildlife. 92 00:07:40,020 --> 00:07:43,755 She travelled with Tobias from town to town, doing jobs along the way, 93 00:07:43,838 --> 00:07:46,620 making new friends with the people she worked with. 94 00:07:48,030 --> 00:07:50,030 She was on a life-changing adventure. 95 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,790 That is... Until February 11, 2005. 96 00:07:55,770 --> 00:08:00,030 when she arrived in the inland city of Lismore in northern New South Wales. 97 00:08:06,630 --> 00:08:09,574 To find out more about what happened to Simone, 98 00:08:09,658 --> 00:08:12,750 I went to the town where she spent her last day, 99 00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:16,590 I found myself standing on the main street with a Lismore local. 100 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:17,543 Cath Adams. 101 00:08:17,940 --> 00:08:21,373 So we're in Woodlark Street in the middle, and there's more CBD, 102 00:08:21,456 --> 00:08:23,790 and just heading towards... Keen Street. 103 00:08:24,540 --> 00:08:25,900 She grew up in this town. 104 00:08:26,010 --> 00:08:29,360 And she's been a journo and photographer here for most of her life. 105 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:32,857 She's taken me to an intersection. 106 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:37,060 where you can pretty much see all the places the four Germans were that day. 107 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:40,560 There was an Irish pub here where the two men had lunch. 108 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:45,690 and right nearby, a hotel called The Golem, where they had drinks that night. 109 00:08:47,010 --> 00:08:49,830 Uh... Simone and Tobias 110 00:08:49,950 --> 00:08:54,244 and they're traveling companions. I look at the CCTV footage of them outside 111 00:08:54,328 --> 00:08:58,219 the Golan Hotel. It looks vastly different now than what it did then. 112 00:08:58,302 --> 00:09:00,810 It's been flooded, so now it's closed. 113 00:09:01,470 --> 00:09:04,170 From here we can also see the caravan park. 114 00:09:04,650 --> 00:09:06,150 where the backpack has stayed. 115 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,480 It's probably about 100 meters, I think. 116 00:09:09,060 --> 00:09:12,900 A little bit more than that. Yeah. And how long has that caravan path been on 117 00:09:12,984 --> 00:09:17,060 that site? Oh, God, I can't remember. It's been there as long as I can remember. 118 00:09:17,580 --> 00:09:22,999 gets flooded there so you know it's known that that's always gets evacuated during 119 00:09:23,082 --> 00:09:23,915 flood time. 120 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,400 Lismore is well known for its floods. 121 00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:32,250 We see signs of that everywhere in town. 122 00:09:32,970 --> 00:09:34,430 Back at the ABC studio. 123 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:40,259 Kath tells me about the day she found out about Simone. It was Sunday afternoon. 124 00:09:40,342 --> 00:09:45,060 I was in the office filing the photos that I'd taken earlier in the day. 125 00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:47,940 She worked at the local paper she'd grown up with, 126 00:09:48,330 --> 00:09:52,447 The Northern Star. It was, you know, a paper people love to hate, but, 127 00:09:52,530 --> 00:09:56,347 you know, they also loved it a lot. And it was a daily newspaper. 128 00:09:56,430 --> 00:09:59,927 Six days a week it came out. Late in the afternoon, 129 00:10:00,010 --> 00:10:02,250 says the newsroom got a call from police. 130 00:10:02,590 --> 00:10:03,487 You know, we were winding up 131 00:10:03,570 --> 00:10:06,607 and then we got this message come through to the newsroom 132 00:10:06,690 --> 00:10:09,507 and it was telling us that there was a backpacker 133 00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:11,287 who was missing in the Lismore CBD 134 00:10:11,370 --> 00:10:16,050 and we didn't really take it terribly seriously at the time. 135 00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:18,987 Lismore isn't a very big place, so we were a little bit incredulous, 136 00:10:19,070 --> 00:10:22,570 like how can somebody go missing in the Lismore CBD? 137 00:10:23,330 --> 00:10:26,347 But the Chief of Staff sent the journalist and I down 138 00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:29,230 to go and have a look and ask some questions. 139 00:10:30,010 --> 00:10:34,765 It was a bit unusual. Lismore wasn't exactly a number one destination 140 00:10:34,848 --> 00:10:35,970 for backpackers. 141 00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:41,758 The town was an odd mix of uni students, hippies and more conservative farming 142 00:10:41,841 --> 00:10:42,675 types. 143 00:10:42,850 --> 00:10:44,837 There were far more popular places nearby. 144 00:10:44,921 --> 00:10:47,007 It's probably more of a town that people are 145 00:10:47,090 --> 00:10:51,147 travelling through on their way somewhere else. You know, Nimbun's just up the road, 146 00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:53,648 Byron Bay, it's only about 45 minutes away. 147 00:10:53,732 --> 00:10:56,267 The police told Kath and her journo colleague 148 00:10:56,350 --> 00:10:59,667 that the missing backpacker had been staying at the caravan park 149 00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:01,310 on the edge of Lismore's CBD. 150 00:11:02,530 --> 00:11:06,090 On the way over there, they saw something that made Kath feel uneasy. 151 00:11:06,530 --> 00:11:09,807 SES workers who were looking through the drains 152 00:11:09,890 --> 00:11:13,590 that were near the caravan park where the group had been staying, 153 00:11:13,930 --> 00:11:17,127 Lismore has, you know, as well known as being a flood town, 154 00:11:17,210 --> 00:11:22,427 so it has these really deep concrete drains running through the CBD 155 00:11:22,510 --> 00:11:25,127 that channel the water coming down off the hill. 156 00:11:25,210 --> 00:11:29,307 So they were there looking in those drains for any sign of this backpacker. 157 00:11:29,390 --> 00:11:34,207 And I guess that was the first inkling that maybe it wasn't just a lost person 158 00:11:34,290 --> 00:11:35,124 for me. 159 00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:38,267 When Kath and the journo got to the caravan park, 160 00:11:38,350 --> 00:11:39,967 they went straight to the kiosk. 161 00:11:40,050 --> 00:11:42,952 The person there directed us towards a van, 162 00:11:43,036 --> 00:11:47,410 a white van and a little tent that were parked inside the park. 163 00:11:47,610 --> 00:11:49,150 We went over to the van. 164 00:11:49,390 --> 00:11:54,287 There was a girl and a man sitting kind of in the van in the doorway. 165 00:11:54,370 --> 00:11:57,670 They had the door open and they looked a bit stressed. 166 00:11:58,350 --> 00:12:02,190 The man in the doorway was Tobias Sookful, Simone's boyfriend. 167 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:07,410 He just looked like a bit of surfy, blonde hair, blonde-longish hair. 168 00:12:07,870 --> 00:12:10,470 The woman was his sister, Katrin. 169 00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:15,905 We approached them and introduced who we were and asked if they would talk to us 170 00:12:15,988 --> 00:12:17,790 about their missing friend. 171 00:12:18,410 --> 00:12:20,027 And they seemed pretty confused. 172 00:12:20,110 --> 00:12:24,090 They seemed a bit upset, but the girl, she told us to fuck off. 173 00:12:24,370 --> 00:12:29,865 Katrin said Simone had only been missing for a day When the journalist and I walked 174 00:12:29,949 --> 00:12:35,175 away though we thought that was an unusual reaction to people offering you know 175 00:12:35,258 --> 00:12:38,350 to get the word out about their missing friend 176 00:12:39,100 --> 00:12:43,200 By Monday morning, it seemed like all of Lismore was talking about Simone. 177 00:12:43,510 --> 00:12:48,602 That front page of the Northern Star had the photo of Simone and the headline, 178 00:12:48,685 --> 00:12:53,400 Where's Simone? Kath can vividly recall the photo of the young backpacker. 179 00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:58,410 She's standing on a beach facing the camera with wavy shoulder-length hair. 180 00:12:58,730 --> 00:13:01,210 Pretty beautiful, big smile, you know. 181 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,457 She was probably closer to my age at that time. 182 00:13:03,540 --> 00:13:05,490 I could see myself in her a little bit. 183 00:13:05,830 --> 00:13:10,333 Rumours about where Simone might be and what might have happened swept through 184 00:13:10,416 --> 00:13:16,531 town. Had she gone, you know, gone to Nimbin, had she gone to Byron, you know, 185 00:13:16,614 --> 00:13:18,827 down to the bay to get away. 186 00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:23,456 Turns out, police had been wondering the same thing on the first day she 187 00:13:23,540 --> 00:13:24,890 was reported missing. 188 00:13:25,770 --> 00:13:29,475 It seems they were considering the possibility that Simone might have found 189 00:13:29,558 --> 00:13:30,770 her way to another town. 190 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,390 So they tried to find out more about her from her boyfriend, 191 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,320 and more about what happened that night, 192 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,600 in that recorded interview at the police station. 193 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,550 By that time, Simone had been missing almost 24 hours. 194 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:54,860 Could you explain to me Simone's situation at home, her family's situation? 195 00:13:55,510 --> 00:13:57,360 Oh, she lived at home to her family. 196 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,180 She had a very, very close relation to his parents. 197 00:14:01,930 --> 00:14:06,230 He says they each lived in small villages, not far away from each other. 198 00:14:07,230 --> 00:14:10,640 We're not just a couple. We are very, very good friends. 199 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:13,907 So we know us six, six and a half years. 200 00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:19,970 and our first date and the whole thing was growing like a very love story, 201 00:14:20,190 --> 00:14:22,230 like a movie that was very romantic. 202 00:14:23,250 --> 00:14:26,450 Yeah, and I'm falling in love and I still live in love with her. 203 00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:28,310 She's a very nice girl. 204 00:14:29,450 --> 00:14:34,010 They'd arrived in Lismore from another campsite about two hours down the coast. 205 00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:39,070 There were four German travellers squeezed into an old Toyota Hi-Ace van. 206 00:14:39,890 --> 00:14:42,037 There was the couple, Tobias and Simone, 207 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,827 and then their temporary travelling companions, 208 00:14:44,910 --> 00:14:48,277 Tobias' sister Catrin and their friend Jens. 209 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,277 They set up camp at the Lismore Tourist Caravan Park. 210 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:57,922 Simone and Catrin went to check out the shops and have some lunch Tobias and Jens 211 00:14:58,005 --> 00:15:03,777 did their own thing and had a feed at the Irish pub Later at night time they all met 212 00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:06,160 up at a pub in the centre of town 213 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:07,880 the Golan Hotel, 214 00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:10,390 not far from where they were staying. 215 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,100 So I'll take you back to, you went to the Golan Hotel about nine o'clock. 216 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,877 Did you drink? Yeah, I'm not sure. 217 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,080 I found mine a lot, yeah. And then we had four beers. 218 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,460 Each of us had four beers. 219 00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:32,940 The detective wants to know exactly what type of beers. 220 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,220 Four is the right one. Is the Gold Stars the right one? 221 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,400 Four X Gold? Gold, yeah. So you were drinking Middies? 222 00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:45,357 Middies. And Simone had four of that? 223 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,277 Four Middies, yeah. Was she an intoxicated drug? 224 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:56,000 No, no, not me. four light beers. Nobody's struggling with these four light beers. 225 00:15:57,820 --> 00:16:02,980 So you left the Golan. At what time do you think about it? 226 00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:07,000 I never wear a Glock, so I'm not built in... 227 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,580 I reckon above my land in the Glock. 228 00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:13,940 He says they all headed back to the caravan park together. 229 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,680 They grabbed another beer and sat around their campsite. 230 00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:22,277 At some point after that, Tobias says the argument broke out 231 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,640 between him and his sister about that family matter back home in Germany. 232 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,860 He says Simone tried to get them to stop. 233 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,360 So she said, oh, come on, guys, let us stop from different things. 234 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,177 But I said to her, wait a minute, we finished that, 235 00:16:37,260 --> 00:16:43,160 and then she stayed up, and she said, oh, yeah, I'm not sure what I said, actually. 236 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,837 I'm very confused right now. And he says that's when Simone walked away. 237 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,940 And that was actually the last moment where I saw my love. 238 00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:57,340 He says Simone was wearing a black sleeveless top, 239 00:16:57,740 --> 00:17:01,380 a skirt that was mainly black with red flowers and no shoes. 240 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,620 When they realised she'd been gone for about 15 minutes, 241 00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:09,980 he says Katrin and Jens went looking. 242 00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:12,697 Tobias says he checked the toilet block 243 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:15,120 and stayed at the van in case she came back. 244 00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:17,477 But none of them could find Simone. 245 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,485 After a lot of looking, he says they thought Simone might have walked further 246 00:17:22,569 --> 00:17:24,260 away than they'd searched. 247 00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:30,112 But they figured she come back to the van when she was ready so they went to bed 248 00:17:30,195 --> 00:17:34,924 Tobias says he fell asleep waiting for her What did you think when you woke up 249 00:17:35,008 --> 00:17:40,977 at seven o and Simone wasn home I was shocked. I go out and I wake up the night. 250 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:43,080 I say, hey, Simone, it's not here. 251 00:17:44,380 --> 00:17:50,745 And then we set up our camp and all these things and take a shower very quick 252 00:17:50,829 --> 00:17:53,760 and then go straight to the police. 253 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:57,797 Tobias says they parked the van outside the caravan park 254 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,060 and went to report Simone missing. 255 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,280 Then they searched the city for hours and checked the hospital. 256 00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:07,920 Eventually, they went back to the police station, 257 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,380 which is when this interview happens. 258 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,140 Do you have any idea what's happened to Simone? 259 00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:16,920 I have no idea. 260 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,197 I have a little bit of a bad thing in my brain, you know what I mean? 261 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:28,108 maybe she's kidnapped or some stuff like that maybe she walked away five minutes 262 00:18:28,192 --> 00:18:29,217 and coming back 263 00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:35,826 and it's easy but she's still gone she's she's not she's not a person who's 264 00:18:35,909 --> 00:18:37,677 traveling without all 265 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,268 no shoes and going hitchhiking to nimbino or to byron or something like that you 266 00:18:42,351 --> 00:18:42,957 know she has 267 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:48,038 nothing she can't pay she can't get some food she can't get some drinks and 268 00:18:48,122 --> 00:18:53,617 the next main reason is she don't contact me and that is very mysterious mate 269 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:59,477 very mysterious Toby is there anything 270 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,460 you wish to tell me about this matter? 271 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:10,037 No yeah please bring my girlfriend back if there's anything you you wish to tell me 272 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:13,140 I will provide you with my details do you understand that? 273 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:19,177 yeah but I have nothing to tell you I told you the truth I told that 10 times today 274 00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:21,960 I understand. And I have enough. 275 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,160 And we will try and do our best to locate Simone for you. 276 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,080 That's fine, then. That's very fine. 277 00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:30,057 Thanks, Tobias. The interview has concluded. 278 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:32,120 The time is 10.45pm. 279 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,600 Tobias's sister, Katrin, and their friend, Jens, 280 00:19:39,860 --> 00:19:41,920 also recorded interviews with police. 281 00:19:42,660 --> 00:19:44,320 They all told similar stories. 282 00:19:45,420 --> 00:19:49,217 Kath Adams says Simone's disappearance had people fearing the worst. 283 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:51,717 A lot of rumour then started about 284 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,257 that perhaps something untowarded happened to her. 285 00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:59,937 Just across the road from the caravan park, groups of people would go. 286 00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:04,640 to drink and they would be there, you know, pretty constantly drinking. 287 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:12,800 It was not, I wouldn't have regarded that as a safe place to be hanging around. 288 00:20:13,460 --> 00:20:17,290 Kath didn't really buy the idea that Simone would have taken off on her own 289 00:20:17,373 --> 00:20:18,260 to a nearby town. 290 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,040 She was a kindergarten teacher. 291 00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:26,597 She wasn't really the kind of person who would just take off without, you know, 292 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:31,855 taking anything with her, her wallet or her shoes or her bag or anything like 293 00:20:31,939 --> 00:20:36,140 that. That was conversations I've had with my colleague at the time that it wasn't, 294 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,257 this wasn't something that you would do as a young woman, 295 00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:41,390 just take off like that without anything. 296 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,200 It wasn't the first time a woman had gone missing in the area. 297 00:20:45,980 --> 00:20:50,517 Speculation started to sort of swirl around town that, you know, 298 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,337 maybe there was a serial killer here at play. 299 00:20:52,420 --> 00:20:58,420 An Aboriginal woman named Lois Roberts had gone missing from Nimbin in the late 90s. 300 00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:05,806 And she turned up, she'd been murdered, so that murder still remains to this day 301 00:21:05,890 --> 00:21:06,723 unsolved. 302 00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:11,342 Her cousin went missing as well, who lived probably, you know, 303 00:21:11,425 --> 00:21:15,257 five minutes up the road from where Simone had been staying. 304 00:21:15,340 --> 00:21:18,955 So, you know, while it was a sleepy country town, 305 00:21:19,038 --> 00:21:23,182 there had been these unsolved cases that really kind of, 306 00:21:23,265 --> 00:21:26,360 people just started to get pretty scared. 307 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,500 As the week went by, concerns about Simone's fate grew. 308 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,905 More extensive searches were done by police and the SES close to the caravan 309 00:21:35,989 --> 00:21:36,822 park. 310 00:21:37,340 --> 00:21:39,820 Simone's disappearance dominated local media. 311 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,997 Tobias wanted police to use a dog to help the search. 312 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,097 By the time Kath was ready to start her Thursday shift 313 00:21:49,180 --> 00:21:55,937 the search for Simone was into its sixth day On her way to the newspaper office 314 00:21:56,020 --> 00:22:00,577 she noticed a lot of police activity across the road from the caravan park 315 00:22:00,660 --> 00:22:05,697 near the grounds of a club where people played bocce an outdoor bowling game 316 00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:08,997 I was starting on a slightly later shift 317 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,697 I remember driving through the CBD 318 00:22:13,780 --> 00:22:18,476 By this time, you know, it had become a real mystery about what had happened 319 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:19,393 to her. 320 00:22:19,540 --> 00:22:25,286 But as I came to that intersection of Uralba Street and Dawson Street there just 321 00:22:25,369 --> 00:22:30,896 was a feeling that something had happened There was sort of a real urgency to 322 00:22:30,980 --> 00:22:36,725 the police and very quickly they were starting to put up some plastic around one 323 00:22:36,809 --> 00:22:37,642 area 324 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,017 And so I drove up the road a little bit and pulled over and called work 325 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:43,257 and said something's going on down here 326 00:22:43,340 --> 00:22:46,220 and that's when they said to me, yeah, they found her. 327 00:22:47,580 --> 00:22:49,300 The worst had happened. 328 00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:53,257 Police had found Simone's body on the grounds of the bocce club 329 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:55,440 over the road from the caravan park. 330 00:22:56,380 --> 00:23:00,560 The van and tent she shared with Tobias were less than 100 metres away. 331 00:23:01,420 --> 00:23:03,500 It was really distressing to hear that. 332 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:09,660 You know, we'd all had that hope that she was in Byron, that she was in Sydney. 333 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,357 We'd all been hoping that that was the case. 334 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,477 Though, you know, I remember being upset in the car 335 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,617 hearing that she had been found and she'd died. 336 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:25,417 The general area around the bocce club 337 00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:27,497 had been searched several times already 338 00:23:27,580 --> 00:23:31,297 but Simone's body was hidden in a fenced off area 339 00:23:31,380 --> 00:23:35,237 They found her on the same day they brought in a police dog 340 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,537 Police couldn't see any obvious cause of death 341 00:23:38,620 --> 00:23:43,977 but they were pretty sure this was no accident because she'd been found naked 342 00:23:44,060 --> 00:23:49,000 her body covered with palm fronds Someone had killed her 343 00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:54,347 To have something like that happen in the heart of Lismore, 344 00:23:54,430 --> 00:23:59,157 it did really shake people's feeling of security and safety. 345 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,837 There was a sense of grief that that could happen to a visitor to our town and, 346 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,300 you know, a sense of responsibility about that. 347 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,120 It's one of those moments in hindsight that really changes the place. 348 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,837 Simone's boyfriend, Tobias, seemed to be overwhelmed with emotion after her body 349 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,753 was found. 350 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,200 He ended up at the hospital and was given a prescription for Valium. 351 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:29,180 He said he was angry about the search and how long it had taken police to use a dog. 352 00:24:30,180 --> 00:24:31,500 He was ready to lash out. 353 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,480 So he put a call into Kath's newspaper. 354 00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:41,237 Tobias called the editor to express his concern about the police investigation 355 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,097 and he called them kindergarten cops. 356 00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:48,960 That became the headline the next day with a picture of Tobias. 357 00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:53,440 You know, he, the kindergarten cop, was very large bowl type. 358 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,890 So it really stood out on the newsstand Police were not happy with that headline 359 00:24:58,974 --> 00:25:03,861 It was a sharp insult toward the police But the officers helped Tobias and 360 00:25:03,944 --> 00:25:07,287 the rest of the group with all the formalities that 361 00:25:07,370 --> 00:25:11,930 had to come next. Things like selling their van and finding a place to stay 362 00:25:12,014 --> 00:25:13,107 until they could go 363 00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:18,477 home. The whole of Lismore started to rally behind these travellers. 364 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,767 Prominent people in town felt 365 00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:25,755 they had to do something to help and to honour this young woman who'd lost her 366 00:25:25,839 --> 00:25:26,907 life in the centre 367 00:25:26,990 --> 00:25:33,990 of their town. This wooden statue is carved with angel wings. 368 00:25:34,248 --> 00:25:38,770 It's of Simone in her favourite dress. 369 00:25:39,370 --> 00:25:42,430 I'm with Jenny Dow at her house in a suburb of Lismore. 370 00:25:42,513 --> 00:25:44,570 We're surrounded by birds and trees. 371 00:25:45,290 --> 00:25:48,850 She's showing me a picture of an angel figurine from Simone's grave, 372 00:25:49,530 --> 00:25:52,290 one of the keepsakes sent to her by the Strobel family. 373 00:25:53,370 --> 00:25:55,187 Jenny's been in touch with them over the years 374 00:25:55,270 --> 00:25:58,830 since she helped them set up a memorial for Simone in Lismore. 375 00:25:59,110 --> 00:26:04,607 The dress itself has on it the church she used to go to in Germany 376 00:26:04,690 --> 00:26:07,867 and five sunflowers, the Australian flag. 377 00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:11,130 Jenny helped lead the community of Lismore for years, 378 00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:14,467 first as a city councillor and then as the mayor. 379 00:26:14,550 --> 00:26:19,530 she says a wave of grief passed through her town after Simone's death. 380 00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:25,530 I think the fact that this young woman had no family here, 381 00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:28,750 many of us felt like surrogate family. 382 00:26:29,350 --> 00:26:32,587 So there's this deep connection and then this deep feeling 383 00:26:32,670 --> 00:26:35,987 that this was where this young woman's life ended 384 00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:41,507 and that we had a duty of care to her to do what was right for her 385 00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:42,987 and never forget her. 386 00:26:43,070 --> 00:26:46,670 Jenny says some people were worried a local could be responsible. 387 00:26:46,970 --> 00:26:49,550 Particularly when her body was found in that spot. 388 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:52,370 It had a bocce field that was not used. 389 00:26:53,370 --> 00:26:58,390 An Italian, like a little club, sports and recreation and music club, 390 00:26:59,030 --> 00:27:00,670 hadn't been used for ages. 391 00:27:01,230 --> 00:27:06,590 It was very run down and at night time it was known it was not a safe place. 392 00:27:07,550 --> 00:27:10,427 When people found out where Simone had been found, 393 00:27:10,510 --> 00:27:13,350 they started leaving flowers and candles for her. 394 00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:16,120 I've seen pictures from the time. 395 00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:20,730 There were tributes with handwritten notes stacked all along the chain link fence. 396 00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:27,316 The local paper ran articles almost every day about Simone and the investigation 397 00:27:27,399 --> 00:27:33,365 And then Jenny says people turned their sympathy for the backpackers into action 398 00:27:33,449 --> 00:27:37,910 It all started with a chance encounter at the travel agents 399 00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:42,080 Jenny just happened to be there helping out with a school fundraiser. 400 00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:45,287 People would come in, they knew to buy their tickets at the back 401 00:27:45,370 --> 00:27:51,627 and of course I knew, well it would have been about 10 days before 402 00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:56,610 that Simone had died and her body had been found. 403 00:27:57,550 --> 00:28:00,930 And the police brought Tobias in. 404 00:28:02,030 --> 00:28:04,230 Tobias needed to get back to Germany. 405 00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:08,510 Katrin had a ticket and their friend Jens was already gone. 406 00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:13,047 Jens was due to go home a couple of days after Simone went missing 407 00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:16,610 and had taken his pre-booked flight before her body was found. 408 00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:20,787 It looked to Jenny like the officers had brought Tobias in 409 00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:22,350 to help him find a way home. 410 00:28:23,250 --> 00:28:24,350 He was in the middle. 411 00:28:24,550 --> 00:28:27,887 Best of my recollection, there was a police person either side of him. 412 00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:32,650 He was slumped as the person, the travel agent, 413 00:28:32,910 --> 00:28:37,250 was sitting opposite him and explaining, you know, costs and whatever. 414 00:28:38,190 --> 00:28:43,870 And he just looked... I couldn't... I could only see the side of his face, 415 00:28:44,550 --> 00:28:46,970 but he looked despairing. 416 00:28:47,610 --> 00:28:52,510 He looked, you know... It looked as if the police were supporting him. 417 00:28:52,970 --> 00:28:58,190 The owner of the travel agent said, that's Tobias, she's quietly doing. 418 00:28:59,210 --> 00:29:04,547 He's struggling because the amount of money it will take to get him 419 00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:09,527 and the body home is mind-blowing and they don't know. 420 00:29:09,610 --> 00:29:14,390 She said, how about we start something to help fund him? 421 00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:18,627 Jenny and the owner of the travel agent started a fundraiser 422 00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:21,130 to help get Tobias home to Germany. 423 00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:25,127 The local paper described how some people were in tears 424 00:29:25,210 --> 00:29:28,890 as they dropped off their money to support the grieving backpackers. 425 00:29:30,110 --> 00:29:34,787 The article said a single mum had donated the last $5 in her wallet 426 00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:37,730 and kids were donating their pocket money to the fund. 427 00:29:39,050 --> 00:29:43,809 In the end, the community raised far more than what Tobias would need for his 428 00:29:43,892 --> 00:29:44,627 airfare home. 429 00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:51,710 The rest was given to Simone's family to help with other costs. 430 00:29:53,270 --> 00:29:57,764 It was like the whole town of Lismore had shared the grief of the German 431 00:29:57,847 --> 00:29:59,917 backpackers, and the community had tried as well. 432 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,560 it could to show love and support in whatever way possible. 433 00:30:04,644 --> 00:30:10,463 But all that support for Tobias and his fellow travelers was about to start 434 00:30:10,547 --> 00:30:16,130 draining away. Because as the investigations continued and details found 435 00:30:16,214 --> 00:30:22,270 their way into the media, it emerged that all three backpackers had been lying 436 00:30:22,353 --> 00:30:27,220 to police. That's next episode on Lies in Lismore. 437 00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:44,004 Jenny Dow sadly passed away just a month after the interview she did with me. 438 00:30:44,088 --> 00:30:48,836 She's remembered in Lismore for her remarkable commitment to the community 439 00:30:48,919 --> 00:30:50,160 and social justice. 440 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,703 This season of Unravel is intended to be listened to as a whole. 441 00:30:58,786 --> 00:31:02,665 If you haven't heard all the episodes, you shouldn't draw any conclusions, 442 00:31:02,748 --> 00:31:05,800 because you haven't heard all the sides of the story yet. 443 00:31:07,380 --> 00:31:14,143 If you saw anything that night in Lismore, or if you know someone else who did, 444 00:31:14,227 --> 00:31:18,300 get in touch. Unravel True Crime at abc.net.au, 445 00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:30,220 You've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great ABC podcasts, 446 00:31:36,746 --> 00:31:43,746 live radio and exclusives on the ABC Listen app.